SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

[Worldie]

i can't see GF making a very new interesting set of Pokémon essentially obsolete without pairing them with the Dons, mainly because in VGC, the cover legends are usually not allowed until certain rulesets? and VGC doubles is really all they design for

We've had plenty of cases in all gens of legendaries and "legendaries" being unviable in higher tiers.
Many UBs sit in lower tiers.
Articuno Galar has dropped to almost unviability.
Calyrex base is unviable anywhere.

Similar situation for VGC, where certain tapus basically never saw play outside of low ladder, most UBs are unviable (basically anything not called Kartana), lot of restricted are terrible since you'd rather use the actually good ones, the galarian birds have seen relatively low usage due to requiring too much support and/or dynamax to work.

As far as VGC goes, some of these mons will still be valid just off bst/movesets.
I do however hope that there's another way to set their field condition until the restricted format.

Well that... or Koraidon/Miraidon won't actually be classified as restricted and will be Tapu-tier instead. I don't expect this one, but I don't 100% exclude it.

 

[Samtendo09]

So I noticed we hadn't posted the Tumbleweed yet
View attachment 463673
Someone tell me how to spoiler this cause I usually don't upload pictures

Dharkon looking tumbleweed, I’ll say!

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It seems more and more like the tradeoff with Paradoxes is effectively not having an ability below Ubers

Khu really did a good job being vague about it regarding the leaders, but the stat distribution of some of them are already insane. The Paradox Misdreavus one is essentially beefed up Mismagius that sacrified Levitate for Fairy-type, for example.

And for those disappointed that Fighting / Electric given to the (fully evolved) Pikaclone again… Well don’t worry, GF is generous enough to give us another one in the form of Paradox Hariyama. And not only 140 Attack is not something to sleep on since it matches pre-Guts Conkeldurr, lacking Guts on it’s own but laugh at Physical Flying-type (Which means, Hawlucha and Zapdos-Galar better watch out) because of it’s insane physical bulk by Fighting-type standards. And you can always slap an Assault Vest on it.

 

[Banini]

Will the box legends be Uber? The stats aren't THAT impressive.

Stats are usually enough to make box legendaries Uber by Default.
The question is more just how good they will be in Ubers which will depend on their abilities and movepools, particularly their signature moves. That's usually what makes a great Ubers mon with examples like Drizzle, Geomancy and Intrepid Sword.

 

[Rarycaris]

i can't see GF making a very new interesting set of Pokémon essentially obsolete without pairing them with the Dons

Their stat lines and movepools alone might be enough to carry them. We've seen quite a few mons with similar BSTs be OU or better without relying on particularly useful abilities based on their other attributes.

I like the idea of introducing a bunch of mons that are balanced for standard play, but become sufficiently powerful when combo'd with restricted legends that Ubers has plenty of toys to play with. It might be GF's way of getting people to consider the box legends in restricted VGC metas without having to directly power creep things like Zacian, Xerneas and Kyogre to make them relevant.

 

[Ropalme1914]

Will the box legends be Uber? The stats aren't THAT impressive.

The stats won't hold them back, we gotta see what the abilities will do and what they have on their movepool. As a reminder, you know who has a very similar statline? This thing.

 

[Worldie]

Stats are usually enough to make box legendaries Uber by Default.
The question is more just how good they will be in Ubers which will depend on their abilities and movepools, particularly their signature moves. That's usually what makes a great Ubers mon with examples like Drizzle, Geomancy and Intrepid Sword.

The way it usually works is that cover leges start in Ubers by default, and then OU council decides if it's worth to give them a chance in OU via suspect or not.

 

[Perriechu]

We've had plenty of cases in all gens of legendaries and "legendaries" being unviable in higher tiers.
Many UBs sit in lower tiers.
Articuno Galar has dropped to almost unviability.
Calyrex base is unviable anywhere.

Similar situation for VGC, where certain tapus basically never saw play outside of low ladder, most UBs are unviable (basically anything not called Kartana), lot of restricted are terrible since you'd rather use the actually good ones, the galarian birds have seen relatively low usage due to requiring too much support and/or dynamax to work.

As far as VGC goes, some of these mons will still be valid just off bst/movesets.
I do however hope that there's another way to set their field condition until the restricted format.

Well that... or Koraidon/Miraidon won't actually be classified as restricted and will be Tapu-tier instead. I don't expect this one, but I don't 100% exclude it.

no i get that, but I feel like in GFs world they do at least try (keyword lol) to make everything at least have a fighting chance, the meta just does not turn out that way, i would just find it weird for them to handicap these new guys in a weird way (giving them bad speed stats like swole, or making them incredibly frail and easy to whittle like phera is one thing) but to essentially make the abilities void and can only work when paired with their respective cover legend is just a little odd and something i don't see them doing. but you're right, some of the BSTs/Typings/Expected movepools make Gallade, Delibird, Salamence etc quite terrifying anyway.

but anywho! we'll get the datamine soon and will be able to see for ourselves

 

[Breadboy]

So I noticed we hadn't posted the Tumbleweed yet
View attachment 463673
Someone tell me how to spoiler this cause I usually don't upload pictures

Hmmm... I dunno if this is real. Something about the eye feels like a generic asset thrown in. Could be that rumored tumbleweed pokemon. Grass Ghost maybe?

 

[Fusion Flare]

some artist did a rendition of the sprites of the starters to give a better idea of what they look like. personally, skeledirge BTFOs this trio so hard its not even close.

 

[Rarycaris]

An additional advantage of the way Paradox Pokemon are set up: if you're in an online match and some asshole has brought the box legends, there's still a pretty good chance you're packing something strong enough to take them on.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

I honestly don't think we're ever getting another Kyurem in OU scenario, guys. If it has 600+ BST and no unique limitations, it's preemptively getting the boot.

 

[CTNC]

I'm okay with most of the "non-names" because no "official" name is pretty interesting, but really have to ask about Paradox Misdreavus's name.

Does Flutter Mane sound like a bad Pony OC to anyone else?

 

[Worldie]

I'm okay with most of the "non-names" because no "official" name is pretty interesting, but really have to ask about Paradox Misdreavus's name.

Does Flutter Mane sound like a bad Pony OC to anyone else?

You're not alone, and I'm waiting for it to be officially revealed toghether with the parakeet so i can unleash my meme reserve.

 

[Fusion Flare]

Do we have any info on what the Paradox Mons abilities do?

 

[Worldie]

Do we have any info on what the Paradox Mons abilities do?

Officially, no.

According to leakers, they're basically clorophyl clones for the field condition set by their respective cover lege.

 

[zferolie]

Officially, no.

According to leakers, they're basically clorophyl clones for the field condition set by their respective cover lege.

I still dont like that idea. Have we ever had a pokemons ability so tied to an ability only 1 other pokemon has? That is super restrictive and pretty much means you HAVE to use the box legendary on tje team. We have never had a case like that before making 1 pokemon, let alone a whole set, so tied to 1 pokemon

 

[VannAccessible]

Whew, I’m caught up on the thread again!

When a new Gen leaks, I always first gravitate towards the new type combinations that we didn’t have before, followed by the most underutilized ones. Might as well add the Arceus mons as well, as they haven’t been in a competitive meta yet:

So we’ve now got, in order of most hype to least hype:

Brand new combos:
Fighting/Fairy
Electric/Fighting
Fire/Grass
Normal/Ghost
Ground/Fighting
Steel/Poison
Normal/Poison

Old combos, but rare:
Ghost/Steel (2 previously)
Ground/Poison (2 previously)
Poison/Fighting (2 previously)
Electric/Ground (1 previously)
Fire/Rock (1 previously)
Electric/Grass (1 previously)
Electric/Rock (1 previously)

——————-

Very exciting stuff, although I’m disappointed we still don’t have Fire/Fairy, Rock/Ghost, Dragon/Fairy (RIP Mega Altaria) and Bug/Ground (Wormadan exists, so not really). I also would’ve loved another Electric/Dark type.

Also, I’ll throw in my two cents, I’m kinda bummed if all the paradox mons have the same abilities. I’d appreciate some diversity there, but whatever. Speed boosting abilities are always nice.

 

[Worldie]

I still dont like that idea. Have we ever had a pokemons ability so tied to an ability only 1 other pokemon has? That is super restrictive and pretty much means you HAVE to use the box legendary on tje team. We have never had a case like that before making 1 pokemon, let alone a whole set, so tied to 1 pokemon

I don't buy it myself, but then again, this is GameFreaks we're talking about and logic isnt a thing.

As I said above, the 3 most realistic options I see are
1) There's another way to set the field condition, likely a move that the paradoxes and possibly some other pokemon learns
2) There's other pokemon with the ability Koraidon and Miraidon have
3) Koraidon and Miraidon aren't classified as restricted and will actually be usable

I find option 1 to be the most likely.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Will the box legends be Uber? The stats aren't THAT impressive.

As a rule, box legends are Uber by default.

some artist did a rendition of the sprites of the starters to give a better idea of what they look like. personally, skeledirge BTFOs this trio so hard its not even close.
View attachment 463681
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Paldea trio is so rad. Love em so much.

Might take over Alola's spot in Top 3 favorite final form starter trios for me. Great designs and love the performing arts theme they have going for them in terms of design theme.

The type combos are pretty fun too.

 

[zferolie]

I don't buy it myself, but then again, this is GameFreaks we're talking about and logic isnt a thing.

As I said above, the 3 most realistic options I see are
1) There's another way to set the field condition, likely a move that the paradoxes and possibly some other pokemon learns
2) There's other pokemon with the ability Koraidon and Miraidon have
3) Koraidon and Miraidon aren't classified as restricted and will actually be usable

I find option 1 to be the most likely.

I do think 1 is the most likely. Perhaps there is a signiture move all these paradoxes share that activates this field effect, or each pokemon has a unique move that activates the effect in a differemt way

That or maybe the ability does something, just not as much without either the other pokemon with the ability or a move to help activate its ability.

 

[Gliwick]

I still dont like that idea. Have we ever had a pokemons ability so tied to an ability only 1 other pokemon has? That is super restrictive and pretty much means you HAVE to use the box legendary on tje team. We have never had a case like that before making 1 pokemon, let alone a whole set, so tied to 1 pokemon

I see no problem with this. They'll be normal balanced mons in basic meta, and will be powered up to match up with mascots in uber meta (which usually happens in late vgc)

 

[zferolie]

I see no problem with this. They'll be normal balanced mons in basic meta, and will be powered up to match up with mascots in uber meta (which usually happens in late vgc)

I meam we have mons with basically no ability be perfectly fine, but those abilitys tend to have no effect in battle or very niche. The only other ability in the game thats so dependant on another pokemon is plus and minus if i recall.

 

[Cuddly]

Will the box legends be Uber? The stats aren't THAT impressive.

No, these stats are great, even by Ubers standards. They absolutely would break OU with the stats along. Then you realize Koraidon gets Drought but better and Miraidon gets Electric Surge but better. These guys will likely rival Kyogre and Groudon in Ubers with how similar they are.

 

[Rarycaris]

I meam we have mons with basically no ability be perfectly fine, but those abilitys tend to have no effect in battle or very niche. The only other ability in the game thats so dependant on another pokemon is plus and minus if i recall.

Aura Break

 

[Critaquil]

Old combos, but rare:
Ghost/Steel (2 previously)
Ground/Poison (2 previously)
Poison/Fighting (2 previously)
Electric/Ground (1 previously)
Fire/Rock (1 previously)
Electric/Grass (1 previously)
Electric/Rock (1 previously)

some of these seem a little off, theres been 2 fire/rock families, only the one ghost/steel family, and only one poison/fighting family.