Sceptile (Update)

status: READY FOR UPLOAD

6/8/10 - posted
6/9/10 - MixTile waiting for QC approval
6/24/10 - added new, more relevant calcs
6/26/10 - implemented new "referring to Pokemon as people" rule
7/24/10 - QC approved (stamps: Eo Ut Mortus, FlareBlitz, whistle)! finished up MixTile, corrected some HTML issues
7/25/10 - GP check 1/2 from jc104
8/4/10 - GP check 2/2 from Eo Ut Mortus
8/25/10 - uploaded by whistle



Sceptile's on-site analysis was written by me back in the Higher Ground era. So, it obviously needed an update, and I also made it more concise. As much as I disapprove of the new referring to Pokemon as people rule, I implemented it in the analysis.

[Overview]
<h4>UU</h4>
<p>Although Sceptile is often eclipsed by other Grass-types, such as the omnipresent Venusaur, he has the potential to effectively fill a variety of different roles on a standard UU team. As the fastest non-Uber SubSeeder, Sceptile is one of the most effective users of the strategy. Additionally, with high Speed and Special Attack, Sceptile is tailor-made for the role of fast, deadly special sweeper; access to moves like Swords Dance and Leaf Blade, as well as a usable Attack stat, make Sceptile a viable physical sweeper. Despite his offensive prowess, Sceptile's low defenses often limit his survivability. When used correctly, however, Sceptile can singlehandedly sweep or stall through large portions of the UU metagame. All in all, Sceptile is a very versatile Pokemon who is a mainstay in the UU environment and should always be considered when making a UU team.</p>

[SET]
name: UU SubSeed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Energy Ball / Leaf Storm
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 7 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With the advent of DPP, Sceptile's ADV title of the fastest SubSeed user in the game was usurped by Shaymin-S. Now, however, with Shaymin-S banished to the Uber tier, Sceptile finally has time to shine. Sceptile boasts numerous advantages over other common UU SubSeeders, such as Tangrowth and the ubiquitous Venusaur. Most notably, Sceptile possesses a magnificent base 120 Speed, which lets him outpace the entire UU metagame (apart from Swellow and Electrode). Sceptile's ability, Overgrow, works perfectly with Substitute, allowing Sceptile to launch more powerful STAB Grass attacks if he ends up Substituting to low health. He also has a respectable base 105 Special Attack to wear opponents down faster.</p>

<p>The tried-and-true strategy of SubSeeding is nothing new to Sceptile, having previously been Sceptile's flagship set in ADV. Switch Sceptile in on something he scares away (such as Milotic or Rhyperior), throw up a Substitute, and strike the switch-in with Leech Seed. From here, Sceptile's prodigious Speed allows him to create an near-infinite string of Substitutes to weather the opponent's assault, while simultaneously draining their health every turn. Sceptile can speed up the process by attacking with Energy Ball and Hidden Power Ice. Leaf Storm is a viable alternative to Energy Ball, because Substitute often brings Sceptile under 1/3 of his health (thus activating Overgrow). A STAB Overgrow Leaf Storm is tremendously strong, and can dent many of Sceptile's counters. However, the harsh drop in Special Attack hurts Sceptile's attacking prowess.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>SubSeed is a strategy notorious for causing switches, so SubSeed Sceptile is best paired up with Stealth Rock and a Spiker to rack up damage even faster. Sceptile does have the misfortune of being walled easily by bulkier Fire-types, such as Magmortar and Arcanine. Therefore, it is a good idea to use Sceptile in tandem with a bulky Water-type, like Milotic or Slowbro. They provide extra insurance against Fire- and Steel-types, can Ice Beam Grass-types and Altaria, and can pave the way for Sceptile to SubSeed unhindered.</p>

<p>One of the most common strategies in UU is to use a so-called Fire + Water + Grass core, which possesses excellent synergy. To complete the trinity, a strong Fire-type that can cover up Sceptile's weaknesses can be used. Arcanine and Blaziken are good choices, as they provide the firepower needed to muscle their way through SubSeed Sceptile's counters – while trashing any overeager Grass-types who can withstand Sceptile's Hidden Power Ice. Blaziken's STAB Fighting-type attacks also demolish Clefable and Chansey, two annoyances to Sceptile. However, Swellow, one of the two Pokemon in UU that outspeeds Sceptile, is a dangerous threat that the aforementioned Fire-types cannot deal with. To take care of Swellow and other Flying-types, you can use Sceptile in concert with Rhyperior, who provides the perfect answer to these problems. Rhyperior solidly walls Flying-types such as Swellow and Altaria, and has a powerful STAB Earthquake to dispose of annoying Steel-types. Dugtrio is also a satisfactory answer to Steel-types.</p>

<p>To fully reap the benefits of Sceptile's great Speed and Special Attack, both stats should be maximized. If one wants Sceptile's Substitutes to have more survivability, EVs can be allocated from Special Attack to HP. Sceptile should preferably invest at least 196 EVs into Special Attack, which allows him to 2HKO variants of Venusaur (with Hidden Power Ice) that do not invest in Special Defense. The IVs allow Sceptile to maximize Hidden Power Ice's strength, as well as provide a Leftovers number. If the need arises, Sceptile can Substitute five times in a row using the specified IVs. Note that the specified IVs should only be used if Sceptile is not running any HP EVs.</p>

[SET]
name: UU Choice Specs
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Energy Ball / Dragon Pulse
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Three things make Sceptile a brilliant candidate for a Choice Specs set: his respectable base 105 Special Attack, his blazing base 120 Speed, and his wide special movepool. A STAB Choice Specs Leaf Storm from Sceptile is downright scary and will blast its way through almost anyone who doesn't resist it. Unfortunately, Grass isn't the best offensive type, so this is where the other moves come to the rescue. Focus Blast provides a high-power (albeit inaccurate) tool for hitting the likes of Registeel and Chansey, while Hidden Power Ice strikes Flying-types (specifically Altaria) and fellow Grass-types (specifically Venusaur) who are keen to switch in on Sceptile. The last slot presents a choice of Energy Ball or Dragon Pulse, two moves that are best suited for late-game sweeping. Energy Ball provides Sceptile with a reliable STAB move when Leaf Storm isn't needed, whereas Dragon Pulse offers superior type coverage.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Specs Sceptile is a top-tier revenge killer, netting many OHKOs with Leaf Storm alone. The following calculations demonstrate the power of Sceptile's Leaf Storm:</p>

<h3>Damage Calculations</h3>
<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Uxie - 66.4% - 78.2% (2HKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Swellow - 97.3% - 114.6% (OHKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Spiritomb - 91.7% - 108.3% (2HKO with Stealth Rock, chance of OHKO)</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom - 61.6% - 71.6% (2HKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Clefable - 66.5% - 78.7% (2HKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Steelix - 78% - 92.1% (2HKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Milotic - 124.2% - 146.6% (guaranteed OHKO)</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Torterra - 88% - 103.6%</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius - 108% - 127.5% (guaranteed OHKO)</li>
<li>Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius - 79.6% - 93.8% (2HKO with Stealth Rock)</li>
</ul>

<p>This variant of Sceptile will be switching out very often, due to the Special Attack drops from his primary move, Leaf Storm. Thus, Rapid Spin support is desirable to keep Sceptile healthy in the long run. Good candidates for this job are Blastoise, who can scare away the Fire-types Sceptile despises, and Claydol, who takes care of both Fire- and Steel-types simultaneously with its STAB Earth Power. Claydol especially serves as a good partner to Sceptile, because it can not only spin away entry hazards, but also lay down hazards of its own to aid Sceptile. Arcanine and Blaziken are both excellent partners to this Sceptile, as they have wallbreaking potential and can easily eliminate special walls such as Chansey (as well as the quintessential Grass-type wall, Tangrowth) that try to block Sceptile. Fire-types also have great synergy with Sceptile, as they resist many of Sceptile's weaknesses (such as Bug, Fire, and Ice), whereas Sceptile himself defensively complements Fire-types (resisting Water and Ground). Dugtrio's useful Arena Trap ability allows him to comfortably dispose of Registeel and Chansey with STAB Earthquake, making him an ideal partner for Sceptile.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set are self-explanatory - maximize Speed and Special Attack to fully utilize Sceptile's potential.</p>

[SET]
name: UU Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Leaf Blade
move 3: Earthquake / X-Scissor
move 4: Rock Slide / Double-Edge
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Sceptile is traditionally seen as a specially-based Pokemon because his base 105 Special Attack often overshadows his middling base 85 Attack. However, Swords Dance, the transition of Leaf Blade becoming physical, and a good physical movepool all work to make Sceptile a viable physical attacker. This set is simple - use Swords Dance to boost Sceptile's Attack to an impressive 538, then attack with the remainder of Sceptile's moves. Leaf Blade was pumped up to 90 Base Power during the D/P transition. Its decent power and high critical hit rate make it a solid STAB move for Sceptile and a must on any physical set. Earthquake provides great neutral coverage and allows Sceptile to hit Registeel and Poison-types. X-Scissor can be used over Earthquake, allowing Sceptile a way to dispose of Tangrowth and Leafeon. Rock Slide grants Sceptile universal type coverage in UU, while also taking care of otherwise dangerous threats such as Moltres and Altaria. Double-Edge is a viable alternative to Rock Slide, providing neutral coverage against the likes of Venusaur and Moltres.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Swords Dance Sceptile, like the SubSeed variant, dislikes Flying-types, who can come in, outspeed/wall him, and OHKO with their STAB moves. Therefore, this particular Sceptile is best used in conjunction with sturdy Steel- or Rock-types, such as Steelix or Rhyperior, who can eliminate these threats. Rhyperior, again, serves as an especially great partner to Swords Dance Sceptile; Rhyperior and Sceptile have great defensive synergy. Weezing is the biggest threat to any physical Sceptile, walling him with superior Defense and burning him with Will-O-Wisp and KOing with Sludge Bomb. Houndoom is an excellent way to eliminate Weezing, as he can come in on a predicted Will-O-Wisp, which will activate the hellhound's Flash Fire. From here, Houndoom's STAB Fire moves can easily take care of Weezing.</p>


[SET]
name: UU MixTile
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Leaf Blade / Rock Slide
move 4: Earthquake / Low Kick
item: Life Orb
nature: Hasty
evs: 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>As mentioned before, Sceptile has good physical and special attacking stats. Additionally, many of his moves became physical during the D/P transition, allowing for both of his potent attacking stats to be utilized. This paves the way for him to become an effective mixed sweeper in the UU environment. This particular Sceptile is capable of destroying stall and does a very good job in taking out the premier walls in UU. Leaf Storm is Sceptile's primary method of attacking, scoring massive damage against the likes of Milotic and Rhyperior. Hidden Power Ice provides Sceptile with a valuable tool for hitting the ever-present Venusaur. The remaining two physical moves should be used in complementary pairs. The advantages and disadvantages of each pair are listed below:</p>

<ul>
<li><b>Leaf Blade / Earthquake</b> - This combination allows Sceptile to 3HKO Registeel (with Earthquake) and 2HKO Chansey (with Leaf Blade). Leaf Blade also provides Sceptile with a reliable STAB move. However, these two attacks leave Sceptile helpless against Moltres.</li>
<li><b>Leaf Blade / Low Kick</b> - Low Kick grants Sceptile a valuable 2HKO on Registeel, while Leaf Blade, as mentioned before, cleanly 2HKOes Chansey. Yet, Sceptile sacrifices coverage on Arcanine and Moltres.</li>
<li><b>Rock Slide / Low Kick</b> - Once again, Low Kick 2HKOes Registeel. Rock Slide lets Sceptile secure an OHKO on Moltres, but leaves him susceptible to bulky Arcanine.</li>
<li><b>Rock Slide / Earthquake</b> - This combination gives Sceptile the best coverage, allowing him to 3HKO Registeel and 2HKO bulky Arcanine (with Earthquake) and OHKO Moltres (with Rock Slide). However, it leaves Sceptile without a reliable STAB move.</li>
</ul>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>In terms of pure attack power, Sceptile is inferior to other UU mixed sweepers, such as Blaziken and Magmortar. What gives mixed Sceptile viability is the sheer surprise factor. While he serves as an excellent stallbreaker, mixed Sceptile is best used as a late-game sweeper, due to the fact that he has much higher Speed than the aforementioned Pokemon. Mixed Sceptile benefits greatly from entry hazard support, which makes his sweep easier. Unlike the SubSeed set, bulky Water support is not as necessary, because mixed Sceptile has the ability to outspeed and KO most Fire-types with Earthquake or Rock Slide. However, it does not hurt to have one in reserve.</p>

[Team Options]
<h4>UU</h4>
<p>While the Choice Specs set packs a huge amount of power, it is susceptible to Fire-types switching in on Leaf Storm. Sceptile has no reliable way of damaging Fire-types aside from Focus Blast (which is rather risky) or resorting to obscure and otherwise useless Hidden Powers. So, one of the best aids to Choice Specs Sceptile - and any Sceptile set in general - is a bulky Water. A prime example of a bulky Water is Milotic (among others like Slowbro and Azumarill). Milotic has great defenses, allowing her to easily deal with the common Fire-type mixed sweepers that are such a nuisance to Sceptile. Ideally, a Rest + Sleep Talk Milotic would serve as the best partner to Sceptile. If there's one status Sceptile really hates, it's paralysis, which nullifies his Speed. A Rest + Sleep Talk Milotic can absorb status for your team as well as effectively support Sceptile with her STAB Surf, which can easily dispatch of any irksome Fire-types. Adding a Fire-type to your team completes the common Fire + Water + Grass core strategy; Blaziken and Arcanine are recommended because they can dismantle walls easily, allowing Sceptile free rein.</p>

<p>Rhyperior is one of the best partners Sceptile can have, especially to SubSeed and Swords Dance variants. Sceptile's greatest asset is his blistering Speed, so anything that outspeeds him is a real pain in the neck. Unluckily for Sceptile, one of the two Pokemon that outspeeds him is a counter - Swellow. To make matters worse, because Swellow is a prominent late-game sweeper, he can potentially prevent Sceptile from pulling off a late-game sweep of his own. To eliminate Swellow, Rhyperior serves as the perfect answer. Rhyperior's typing allows him to laugh at any attacks Swellow throws at him. Additionally, Rhyperior can take care of Steel-types, who can hinder special Sceptile lacking Focus Blast. Dugtrio is a also a very efficient partner, as his useful Arena Trap ability allows him to trap and take down Steel-types with a STAB Earthquake.</p>

<p>Because Sceptile is normally seen as a sweeper, entry hazard support is greatly needed to increase the chances of Sceptile pulling off a successful sweep. Ideally, the entry hazard layer should be a Pokemon that also helps Sceptile play to his strengths. An example of a Pokemon that fills these roles is Claydol. Claydol's STAB Earth Power gets super effective hits on Fire- and Steel-types, making Sceptile's job much easier. Claydol can Rapid Spin away entry hazards to make sure the Choice Specs variant can survive longer, while simultaneously laying down hazards of its own. It can also set up Reflect and Light Screen to ease taking hits for your entire team, use Ice Beam to check Altaria and Psychic to check Weezing, and round things off with a bang (Explosion) when it's done.</p>

[Optional Changes]
<h4>UU</h4>
<p>Sceptile can abuse Overgrow, his sky-high Speed stat, and his ability to force switches by running a SubLiechi set. The premise of the set is to Substitute on something Sceptile scares away, and then use Swords Dance. Then, continue to Substitute, which will forcibly activate the Liechi Berry. From here, Sceptile has an astronomically powered +3 STAB Overgrow Leaf Blade at his disposal. This enormously powerful attack, coupled with Sceptile's prodigious Speed, make a SubLiechi set very dangerous. However, this set is somewhat hard to set up, and priority users have a field day with it.</p>

<p>Another attractive (albeit unreliable) option that Sceptile has at his disposal is the possibility of running an Endeavor set. After surviving a fatal blow (via Focus Sash or Endure), Sceptile can use Endeavor to lower his opponent's HP to 1, as long as the target in question is not Ghost-type. More importantly, however, Sceptile's Overgrow ability activates, powering up his already powerful Leaf Storm. Even better, Sceptile can use Quick Attack to dispose of Endeavor-weakened opponents. However, the one thing restricting the viability of this set is the abundance of priority users in UU, which nullifies the purpose of this set completely.</p>

<p>Sceptile has access to Pursuit, Crunch, and Night Slash, three Dark moves that can work on the physical sets. However, their type coverage is unremarkable. In the healing department, besides Leech Seed, he receives Synthesis and Giga Drain. In terms of an alternative STAB move, Grass Knot is always an option, but generally should not be used unless one is planning to use Sceptile in the OU environment. Sceptile can use Counter in conjunction with Focus Sash to produce some interesting but generally unreliable results. Screech is an interesting option but is generally overshadowed by Swords Dance unless Sceptile is trying to force switches. Sceptile receives ThunderPunch, but not Ice Punch to batter Dragons. Sceptile can throw together a Choice Band set, but Swords Dance packs more power and is generally more reliable. Additionally, Sceptile learns the Sunny Day + SolarBeam combo, but is too frail to pull it off successfully.</p>

[Counters]
<h4>UU</h4>
<p>Defensively, Weezing is arguably the best Sceptile counter around; he resists Grass, Ground, and Fighting (the most common attack combination Sceptile uses) and can burn physical variants as well as dispatch of any variant with STAB Sludge Bomb. Sceptile is also prone to being revenge killed by Scarfed Pokémon, particularly the likes of Moltres and Typhlosion. Registeel is also a fairly reliable counter to Sceptile lacking Focus Blast or Earthquake. Chansey sufficiently walls any specially based set well; a Specs Focus Blast can only muster a 3HKO (37.29% - 43.99%). Chansey must be wary of the mixed sweeper, though - his prime objective is to lure Chansey out and then strike her with physical attacks. Clefable's Magic Guard ability, which prevents her from being afflicted by passive damage, allows her to serve as a hard counter to SubSeed Sceptile. Venusaur is also a good check to Sceptile, as he can freely switch in on any of Sceptile's Grass-type attacks (watch out for Hidden Power Ice, though).</p>

<p>Flying-types, as mentioned before, are Sceptile's Achilles' heel. Swellow is a dangerous late-game threat that can outspeed Sceptile and OHKO him with Brave Bird. However, due to his frailty, he must stay on his toes and not switch in carelessly. Altaria is defensively bulky and can take on pretty much any Sceptile set without fear of retribution unless Sceptile is running Hidden Power Ice. Moltres sports a quad-resistance to Grass and can take care of any Sceptile lacking Rock Slide or Hidden Power Rock.</p>
 

Seven Deadly Sins

~hallelujah~
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I assume this is only considering UU? Philip7086 has repped an extremely effective LO Sceptile set for use in OU, and I'd like to see it in any Sceptile analysis that gets put on-site.
 
This looks like a purely UU analysis SDS. Supermarth64 is currently doing the writeup for the OU Sceptile analysis.
 
You really should have posted this in QC before you wrote it....

[SET]
name: Choice (Special)
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Rock / Dragon Pulse
item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
ability: Overgrow
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
I've used Choice Scarf Sceptile and it's pretty pointless. If you want a Grass-type revenge killer, use Venusaur, at least it gets Sleep Powder and STAB Sludge Bomb.

I'd remove Modest and Choice Scarf as options.

Additionally, I think Dragon Pulse may be worth a slash next to Energy Ball rather than with the Hidden Powers. I'll need to test this.


[SET]
name: SubSeed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Energy Ball / Leaf Blade
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / X-Scissor
item: Leftovers
ability: Overgrow
nature: Timid / Jolly
evs: 216 HP / 252 Spe / 40 SpA
Physical options...no. They are simply not good. I mean 105 base SpA and being able to hit Venusaur SE vs 85 base Atk?

Anyway, I don't think this set is remotely as good as the more offensive variant, but there could possibly be two sets?

[SET]
name: SubSeed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Leaf Storm / Energy Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Leftovers
ability: Overgrow
nature: Timid
evs: 96 HP / 216 Spe / 196 SpA

This lets it 2HKO any Venusaur without SpD investment as well as functioning as an excellent utility Pokemon with an Overgrow boosted Leaf Storm at its disposal. This set is awesome with Spikes support.
[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Leaf Blade
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Rock Slide / X-Scissor / Double-Edge
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
ability: Overgrow
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Those EVs are out of order, but there's more. The slashes next to Rock Slide are completely unneeded. Until Moltres is banned, that's what you need to hit. If anything, I'd slash X-Scissor next to Earthquake for Tangrowth vs Registeel.


[SET]
name: SubLiechi
move 1: Leaf Blade
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Rock Slide / Earthquake
item: Liechi Berry
ability: Overgrow
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
ivs: 30 HP
I think this set needs to go along with the other sets like this. Priority is literally everywhere, and even with Overgrow you're not really getting any KOes that you otherwise wouldn't. Optional Changes material.
[SET]
name: MixTile
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Leaf Blade / Earthquake
move 4: Earthquake / X-Scissor / Rock Slide
item: Life Orb
ability: Overgrow
nature: Naive
evs: 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
This set is good but I'm unsure if this is the best set. I've ran 252 SpA and 80 Atk before and it was excellent. I've ran this kind of set with Leaf Storm, HP Ice, Low Kick, and Synthesis. It was pretty good, I ran it with 80 Atk and with 200 Atk (for the 2HKO). The 80 Attack was far better because Registeel switches into a Leaf Storm and is then 2HKOed. You rarely ever want to be shooting Low Kicks around randomly.

I'll test these sets too.

Once I've tested and you've made the suggested changes, I'll approve this.
 
SubSeed Sceptile comments

I apologize in advance if it is not my place to say this. I'm not sure how this board works, but I do have something to say regarding the Subseed set. I think it's an amazing strategy to use with Sceptile, and one that people falter frequently in combating. It's easily able to stall out even Pokemon like Moltres, and is even useful as a clean up sweeper if Substitute's PP is sapped.

A frail SubSeeder depends greatly on consistently pumping out Substitutes to defend itself. While Torterra and Venusaur are content to take a hit once in a while, it is vitally important for Pokemon like Breloom and Sceptile to block the opponent's attacks with Substitute before taking damage. Because of this drain on HP, the reflex to pump Sceptile full of HP EVs makes sense. But in reality, Sceptile does not need a specific quantity of Health Points to create a Substitute. It always uses 1/4 of its HP.

Therefore, it is important to remember that Sceptile should be recovering a large percentage of its HP, not just a large quantity. Leftovers recovery already works at a set percentage, but the recovery you get from Leech Seed is a hard quantity determined solely by your opponent's Pokemon. To turn this quantity into a larger percentage, you need to reduce the denominator; in this case, you need to reduce Sceptile's HP. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it is extremely practical. A Sceptile with 257 HP can create a new Substitute with the HP it gets from a Seeded Miltank (plus Leftovers), where your 335 HP version cannot, and is in danger of being stalled out.

You might say that extra HP helps the bulk of Sceptile's Substitutes, and it does. But in practice, this bulk is almost useless. It's still broken by Venusaur's Power Whip, Hitmontop's Mach Punch, Registeel's Seismic Toss... everything, really. The idea of a "bulky" Substitute is only even remotely viable on initially bulky Pokemon. Sceptile should stay far away from such a strategy, instead relying on its capacity to so frequently use Substitute. Sceptile is the fasterst non-uber SubSeeder, and also the UU SubSeeder with the lowest HP (beaten by Breloom and Roserade in OU, although the speed makes up for it). I feel that this attribute is being wasted with HP EVs.

I propose instead, that Sceptile be given no HP Effort Values, and a low HP IV. A stat of 257 (IV of 7) would be optimal, being one point above a Leftovers number, allowing Sceptile to Substitute five times in a row, should the need arise. EDIT: An IV of 7 is actually not "optimal". The entire point of this post is to convince the reader to lower the amount of HP required to Substitute is a good thing. Despite also lowering the amount of HP you get back from Leftovers, decreasing both of these things will be a good thing when you consider that Sceptile is gaining back a greater percentage of its HP from Leech Seed. Therefore, going for a Leftovers Number (as it requires you to increase the amount of HP necessary for Substitute) is not required. However, 257 (IV of 7) is the best number to use when considering HP Ice 70. It just so happens to be a Leftovers +1 Number. Let me assure you, Sceptile is most capable of using the EVs elsewhere. I recommend Special Attack, significantly increasing Sceptile's ability to function as a sweeper in the endgame, and to hit its counters harder. Moving EVs from HP to Special Attack allows Sceptile to both survive longer using the SubSeed strategy, and hit ~20% harder while functioning offensively. This is the most clear-cut case of win-win you will ever see.

On Timid SubSeed vs Jolly SubSeed: Timid Energy Ball does more damage to Uxie (whose U-turn is quite troublesome here) than Jolly X-Scissor. Timid HP Ice is significantly more useful against Venusaur, (UU #1 and immune to Leech Seed), even Calm versions. Obviously, HP Ice is more useful against Torterra and Tangrowth, too. The only counter hit harder by physical moves is Clefable. It is also worth noting that Grass/Ice has better coverage than Grass/Bug. Despite lower base power, special Sceptile consistently does more damage to more Pokemon, including Subseed's biggest counters. The physical options on this set should be removed for conciseness and practicality. If they require a mention at all, it should be as a side note under additional information.

With the changes I have proposed, the set should look like this:

[SET]
name: SubSeed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Energy Ball / Leaf Storm
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Leftovers
ability: Overgrow
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 7 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def

The comments section would also need to be adjusted to your liking. Edit: Slashing Leaf Storm next to Energy Ball as Heysup suggested would also be good.

It's worth mentioning in the additional comments that this Sceptile is not countered by Sceptile's normal counters, which is part of what makes this set so awesome. Standard Moltres wears out quickly when unable to get through Substitute, instead faced with Stealth Rock, Leech Seed, and Life Orb damage. Substituting on the switch allows you to KO Swellow with HP Ice and Stealth Rock (sometimes without). Anything below 372 speed that lacks a recovery move, roar, damaging weather (etc.) will fall to SubSeed Stalling. Oddly enough, the analysis hails Registeel as a counter to this version, which is only true if it has Rest, or if Snowstorm/Sandstream is going. While Leftovers in general really hurt the SubSeed strategy, Sceptile can whittle away the HP of most Pokemon 1/16th per turn (Leech Seed steals 2/16ths, the opponenet's Leftovers restore 1/16th) until they are in KO range.
 
@Luminary: You have an excellent point there mate. Max SpA and speed makes sceppy far more effective. He really has no need for HP EVs
 
Choice (Special):
Heysup said:
I've used Choice Scarf Sceptile and it's pretty pointless. If you want a Grass-type revenge killer, use Venusaur, at least it gets Sleep Powder and STAB Sludge Bomb.

I'd remove Modest and Choice Scarf as options.

Additionally, I think Dragon Pulse may be worth a slash next to Energy Ball rather than with the Hidden Powers. I'll need to test this.
Right. Deleted Choice Scarf as an option. I believe that Energy Ball is superior to Dragon Pulse unless Sceptile is being used in OU, simply because of the lack of Dragon-types in UU. Granted, Dragon has excellent neutral coverage, but Sceptile doesn't have the sheer firepower to use it well.

Swords Dance:
Heysup said:
Those EVs are out of order, but there's more. The slashes next to Rock Slide are completely unneeded. Until Moltres is banned, that's what you need to hit. If anything, I'd slash X-Scissor next to Earthquake for Tangrowth vs Registeel.
EVs fixed, X-Scissor slashed next to Earthquake.

SubLiechi: moved it to Optional Changes.

SubSeed:
Heysup said:
Physical options...no. They are simply not good. I mean 105 base SpA and being able to hit Venusaur SE vs 85 base Atk?
Agreed. I removed all physical mentions apart from the mixed and SD sets.

Luminary said:
I apologize in advance if it is not my place to say this. I'm not sure how this board works, but I do have something to say regarding the Subseed set. I think it's an amazing strategy to use with Sceptile, and one that people falter frequently in combating. It's easily able to stall out even Pokemon like Moltres, and is even useful as a clean up sweeper if Substitute's PP is sapped.
There's no need to apologize; your comments are definitely appreciated. I can see that you put a lot of time and effort into making your post, and I'll try to deal with it accordingly.
Luminary said:
Therefore, it is important to remember that Sceptile should be recovering a large percentage of its HP, not just a large quantity. Leftovers recovery already works at a set percentage, but the recovery you get from Leech Seed is a hard quantity determined solely by your opponent's Pokemon. To turn this quantity into a larger percentage, you need to reduce the denominator; in this case, you need to reduce Sceptile's HP. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it is extremely practical. A Sceptile with 257 HP can create a new Substitute with the HP it gets from a Seeded Miltank (plus Leftovers), where your 335 HP version cannot, and is in danger of being stalled out.
I agree with the logic that Sceptile would be better off recovering a large percentage of its HP as opposed to a large quantity. Thus, the HP must be reduced. However, the scenario you cited is extremely situational. Miltank is a Pokemon which has good base HP; therefore, 257 HP would work better for Sceptile in that situation. If it were a Pokemon with low base HP, it would work against Sceptile. Yet, I am still inclined to agree with you, and I'll explain why next:
Luminary said:
I propose instead, that Sceptile be given no HP Effort Values, and a low HP IV. A stat of 257 (IV of 7) would be optimal, being one point above a Leftovers number, allowing Sceptile to Substitute five times in a row, should the need arise. EDIT: An IV of 7 is actually not "optimal". The entire point of this post is to convince the reader to lower the amount of HP required to Substitute is a good thing. Despite also lowering the amount of HP you get back from Leftovers, decreasing both of these things will be a good thing when you consider that Sceptile is gaining back a greater percentage of its HP from Leech Seed. Therefore, going for a Leftovers Number (as it requires you to increase the amount of HP necessary for Substitute) is not required. However, 257 (IV of 7) is the best number to use when considering HP Ice 70. It just so happens to be a Leftovers +1 Number. Let me assure you, Sceptile is most capable of using the EVs elsewhere. I recommend Special Attack, significantly increasing Sceptile's ability to function as a sweeper in the endgame, and to hit its counters harder. Moving EVs from HP to Special Attack allows Sceptile to both survive longer using the SubSeed strategy, and hit ~20% harder while functioning offensively. This is the most clear-cut case of win-win you will ever see.
No specific IV value can be considered completely "optimal," but I think I'll go with your changes and give Heysup's EV spread a mention for those who wish to give Sceptile more longevity (via HP EVs). I'll also mention Overgrow and slash in Leaf Storm. Of course, the main advantage of dumping the HP EVs into Special Attack is simply the ability to hit harder. Thanks for your input.
 
I've found a lot of success with Double-Edge/Earthquake/Leaf Blade on Sceptile.
Sceptile is frail enough that Double-Edge recoil has meant little for my particular use of him as a late game cleaner, as at +0 it hits Moltres 0HP/0DEF for something like 48-56%(Adamant nature and Life Orb equipped), Venusaur 0HP/4DEF for 54-64%, etc.
I dunno', I think it could be mentioned or slashed, as the great neutral coverage it provides for a late game sweeper(generally the role in which I see SD 'tile used) is outstanding.
 

cim

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This is probably a really minor pet peeve: Since you rightfully decided not to name the Choice Specs set "SpecsTile", can you not refer to it as that in AC?

The AC recommendation for "Rapid Spin" honestly sounds like complete theorymon considering he's not weak to SR or anything.

I also got a large amount of "hype" reading the analysis. Tons of use of the word "brilliant", "fantastic", etc. Pokemon sets aren't advertisements...
 
I've used double edge SD Sceppy for a long time and it really is the best 'overall' move for that slot. It let's you hit Moltres and flyers while hitting bulky Grass-types hard as well. Offensive Venu is OHKO'd which Earthquake fails to do iirc, but I used Lefties for my calcs.
 
@Thund & anti404 - I removed Double-Edge as an option on Heysup's request, but I think I'll put it back (if it's OK with Heysup). Double-Edge still hits Moltres hard neutrally, and, as Thund said, OHKOs offensive Venusaur.

@Chris is me - Fixed the SpecsTile reference. I'll try to tone down some of the "hype."
 
Sorry for the double post, but this has been in QC for a month now, and MixTile hasn't been approved. Since Heysup's not around, and he was the one testing it, can some other UU QC members test it as an individual set? I think the other sets are proven to be effective, and since Sceptile is a fairly important Pokemon in UU, I don't think the whole analysis should be held back because of one set. I suggest it should be added on later once it's approved.
 

Eo Ut Mortus

Elodin Smells
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[SET]
name: MixTile
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Leaf Blade / Earthquake
move 4: Earthquake / X-Scissor / Rock Slide
item: Life Orb
ability: Overgrow
nature: Naive
evs: 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
I don't see what Focus Blast is for. Steelix and Miltank take a lot from Leaf Storm anyway, Chansey takes more from Leaf Blade, and Registeel takes around as much from Earthquake.

Also HP Ice > X-Scissor. Leafeon and Tangrowth both have terrible Special Defense stats and high Defense stats.

Bluewind suggested Synthesis on IRC (but he said he was too lazy to post). Not sure how well it would work, but it's something I intend to try over Focus Blast.

Also shouldn't it be Hasty > Naive because Sceptile has shit Defense anyway?

Not a big Sceptile user, so please correct me if I overlooked something.
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
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I have what is possibly a controversial suggestion for the Specs set: Remove energy ball. Sceptile is meant to be a hit-and-run Pokemon, and Leaf Storm hits MUCH harder than Energy Ball on the first hit, and is nearly as powerful on the second hit. I suppose it could theoretically be nice for lategame sweeping, but honestly, I think something like Dragon Pulse would work a lot better in that slot (dragon pulse is useful if they have, say, a venusaur and an azumarill in reserve; dragon pulse 2hKOs both). HP Ice also really should be slashed with anything, without it you are completely helpless against altaria, leafeon (takes an assload from leaf storm but still), jumpluff, and importantly defensive venusaur. The slashes should go with Focus Blast.
 
i was going to post something to that effect but planned on holding off till i had time to test mixtile but now that flareblitz opened his big mouth i might as well back him up.

energy ball's "ability to sweep" is highly overrated. even discounting the additional power of the first hit of leaf storm, the second hit hits basically as hard as energy ball. this means you need to have to use energy ball three times for it to pay off in terms of how much damage the next hit does (note that even at 3 usages each, total damage done is still higher for leaf storm). basically, to use the set you spam leaf storm. if you think registeel is coming in, you use focus blast. if you think a grass pokemon or altaria/moltres is coming in, you use hp ice / dragon pulse.

a lot of pokemon who set up on energy ball will also set up on -4 leaf storm (venusaur, moltres, registeel); it's the frailer 2x resists like blaziken and toxicroak who may experience a bit of a difference but they don't take all that much from energy ball anyways.

hp ice is a must on this since grass types are probably the most dangerous switchin (specifically venusaur); they are more dangerous than fire types for the simple reason that the only 4x grass resist fire-type is also 4x weak to sr, and most 2x resists are 2hkoed after sr.

i also like focus blast a lot since it hits registeel and chansey switchins for a lot of damage. although it is definitely a move of necessity (you only use it when you HAVE to) i feel it is also a move that is necessary on the set.

this leaves the last slot which i believe should be dragon pulse / energy ball. i am almost never a fan of slipping random non-stab low super effectiveness attacks on band/specs sets but dragon pulse works very well on sceptile. it makes prediction when your opponent has a few frail but 4x resists alive a non-issue since you can actually 2hko quite a few pokemon in uu with dragon pulse. energy ball is here cause... well... it's not completely worthless.

finally about the claim that spin support is worthless for sceptile: it may not reap the largest benefits from spin support, but due to its high speed, sometimes the best way for offense teams to beat it is to wear it down a few times with sr while taking advantage of 4x / (2x if needed) resists and finishing it off with priority. spinning away sr prevents that from happening and makes sceptile a much larger long-term threat. also, if spikes are a possibility, spin support is almost completely necessary.

will test mixtile and report back within a week or a few days or something.
 
It's been a while since I've used mixtile, but these are my thoughts on the set.

First, I agree with heysup that the EVs should be max SpA / 80 Atk. It makes it a lot harder to get by Chansey, but Sceptile's selling point is a strong STAB leaf storm with high speed, not its pure wallbreaking abilities. Max Atk is more helpful if we're interested in a pure wallbreaker, but I don't think that's what a mixtile's main purpose should be (I guess that's for QC to decide).

Second, Leaf Storm and HP Ice are pretty obviously necessities on the set. Nothing should be slashed next to HP Ice because hitting Venusaur is too important. Focus Blast doesn't seem to have much use on the set, and can probably be taken off entirely.

There are a lot of physical options that can be used for the last two slots. Mainly, Low Kick / Earthquake / Rock Slide / Leaf Blade. Low Kick covers Registeel and Chansey (somewhat, only has 60 BP), Earthquake covers Registeel + Poison-types + Fire-types, Rock Slide gets Moltres, and Leaf Blade is stronger against Chansey and gets STAB. The best looking pairings are Low Kick / Rock Slide and Leaf Blade / Earthquake. Both have their merits - the first does more to Registeel and less to Chansey, and vice versa. The second hits Drapion and Toxicroak and does more to Arcanine, but the second covers Moltres, which is a fair trade-off.
 
@EUM & umbarsc - Right, after extensive testing and taking into account your comments, I've made a lot of edits to the MixTile set in the OP. I removed Focus Blast as an option and replaced it with Hidden Power Ice. The last two slots are now Leaf Blade / Rock Slide and Earthquake / Low Kick, for the reasons umbarsc suggested. I'm not going to adjust the EV spread until the QC members are finished, though. I also think Miracle Seed could be a viable option over Life Orb, as it's a great way to bluff specs, so I added it (if it's not OK with QC I'll take it off).

@FlareBlitz & whistle - Edited the specs set with your suggestions. The moveset is now Leaf Storm / Focus Blast / HP Ice / Energy Ball or Dragon Pulse.
 
Huge bump, this sank all the way to the last page of QC. Sorry to annoy you QCers... but it's been another two weeks. Just bumping as a reminder.

EDIT: Oh, sorry for the double post as well >.<
 

Eo Ut Mortus

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Don't mention Miracle Seed; you lose too much power for it to be worthwhile. Rest is fine; make sure you mention that Low Kick 2HKOes most Registeel most of the time after a switch into Leaf Storm (with SR up).

QC Approved (1/2)
 
mixtile

possible moves
with targets
low kick - registeel houndoom chansey
earthquake - registeel houndoom arcanine toxicroak
rock slide - moltres houndoom arcanine
leaf storm - it hits everything else like draco meteor
hp ice - venusaur torterra altaria
leaf blade - chansey and stab for when you don't want to lower special attack

it needs leaf storm and hp ice no question. to find out which physical attacks to use i'll do some calcs to see the capabilities of both. one set can have 252 attack and one can have 40 attack as a guideline first, but that can be changed to accomodate certain 2hkos/3hkos).

with a spread of 252 satk / 40 atk
earthquake vs 252/0 registeel: 33.5% - 39.6% [sometime 3hko] [needs 35.4% to 3hko assuming sr is up, registeel has leftovers, and sceptile switches out immediately after the first eq and deals the last two hits the next time it comes in, since that is (17/16)/3]
low kick vs 252/0 registeel (120 bp): 39.6% - 46.7% [3hko]
earthquake vs 0/0 houndoom: 101.7% - 120.3% [clean ohko]
low kick vs 0/0 houndoom (60 bp): 61.9% - 72.9% [never ohko with sr]
low kick vs 0/0- houndoom (60 bp): 68.7% - 81.1% [okay chance of ohko with sr]
low kick vs 252/0 chansey (60 bp): 34.6% - 40.9% [yeah no that's worthless rofl]
earthquake vs 0/0 toxicroak: 79.5% - 93.8% [just short of ohko with sr (well you can get it like 4% of the time)]
earthquake vs 0/0 arcanine: 64.2% - 76% [rarely an ohko with sr]
-1 earthquake vs 0/0 arcanine: 42.4% - 50.5% [2hko with sr and leftovers]
-1 earthquake vs 252/80 arcanine: 32.8% - 39.1%
leaf storm vs 252/0 arcanine: 40.1% - 47.4% [leaf storm and -1 earthquake is a 2hko sometimes vs bulky arcanine after sr and leftovers]
rock slide vs 0/0 moltres: 88.5% - 104.7% [lol doesnt always ko prolly should fix that]
rock slide vs 0/0 houndoom: 77% - 90.7% [ohko with sr]
rock slide vs 0/0 arcanine: 48.6% - 57.3% [2hko with two rock slide or 2hko with leaf storm including sr]
-1 rock slide vs 0/0 arcanine: 32.4% - 38.6% [2hko sometimes with leaf storm and sr but never with two rock slide]
-1 rock slide vs 252/80 arcanine: 25% - 29.7% [depressing]
leaf blade vs 252/0 chansey: 38.8% - 45.9% [nah]

with a spread of 40 satk / 252 atk
earthquake vs 252/0 registeel: 41.2% - 48.9% [3hko]
low kick vs 252/0 registeel (120 bp): 49.5% - 58.2% [2hko with sr that's pretty impressive]
earthquake vs 0/0 houndoom: 127.1% - 149.8% [ded]
low kick vs 0/0 houndoom (60 bp): 76.3% - 90% [ohko with sr]
low kick vs 252/0 chansey (60 bp): 43.1% - 50.9% [rarely a 2hko with sr]
earthquake vs 0/0 toxicroak: 99% - 116.6% [ohko pretty much]
earthquake vs 0/0 arcanine: 80.4% - 94.7% [ohko with sr! but this is a rare arcanine variant]
-1 earthquake vs 0/0 arcanine: 53% - 62.9% [2hko! but this probably has lo extremespeed so you wanna switch out]
-1 earthquake vs 252/80 arcanine: 40.6% - 47.9% [2hko with sr and leftovers most of the time! that's cool]
leaf storm vs 252/0 arcanine: 33.1% - 39.1% [just fyi... 2hkos with earthquake sometimes]
rock slide vs 0/0 moltres: 109.7% - 129.6% [ohko]
rock slide vs 252/0 moltres: 91.7% - 108.3% [good chance of ohko]
rock slide vs 0/0 houndoom: 94.8% - 112% [ohko with sr; good chance without]
rock slide vs 0/0 arcanine: 59.8% - 71% [2hko but this probably has lo extremespeed so get out]
-1 rock slide vs 0/0 arcanine: 39.9% - 47.4% [2hko with sr most of the time but same issue as above]
-1 rock slide vs 252/80 arcanine: 30.7% - 36.5% [bleh 3hko so it'll recover then you can't kill it]
leaf blade vs 252/0 chansey: 48.4% - 57.1% [2hko with sr that's sexy]

the calcs for the physically oriented set are much more impressive than the specially oriented set's -- not surprising, since these are calcs for physical moves. however, i think the main point of going mix is to beat these pokemon, and if you can't, well... why are you going mixed?

the main pokemon that has a designated target with mixtile's special moves is venusaur, who still takes 47.2% - 55.8% from hp ice if it is an offensive version - a sure 2hko with sr even with leftovers. however, one notable difference is that you lose out on the 2hko against 252 hp venusaur, since sceptile deals 39% - 46.2% instead of 46.7% - 55.5%. offensive torterra still takes 99.1% - 117.2% while 252/252+ torterra still takes 57.9% - 69% from 40 satk sceptile, which is a 2hko even with max special attack.

now what moves to use...

low kick and earthquake are probably mutually exclusive due to the relatively redundant coverage they provide. leaf storm is a given. hp ice probably should be used due to coverage on grass pokmon. this leaves one more slot for rock slide and leaf blade.

low kick / rock slide - 2hko on registeel; cannot hit defensive arcanine; ohko on moltres

earthquake / rock slide - 3hko on registeel; 2hko on defensive arcanine; ohko on moltres

low kick / leaf blade - 2hko on registeel; cannot hit arcanine at all; cannot hit moltres; 2hko on chansey; reliable stab other than leaf storm

earthquake / leaf blade - 3hko on registeel; 2hko on defensive arcanine; cannot hit moltres; 2hko on chansey; reliable stab other than leaf storm

40 satk hp ice vs moltres: 24.9% - 29.9% (2hko with sr)

assuming 216 speed (this can be dropped a bit, probably), this is the set i like the most:

sceptile @ life orb (hasty)
252 atk / 40 satk / 216 spe
- earthquake / low kick
- leaf blade / rock slide
- leaf storm
- hp ice

although the slashes are pretty fluid - you should definitely outline the advantages and drawbacks of every combination no matter what the primary options are.

basically i guess just use this post for inspiration or whatever the hell to add stuff to the analysis? since what you have now is fine (except for miracle seed as shown by calcs and said by eo). moving to uu.
 

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