Shaderaa is 2hko'ed by bullet punch after SR, so isnt a great enemy as you say.You talk like if coming in and spam u-turn is rather easy, kojondo lack of bulk and inmunity make really hard just enter in the battle, and when is the battle he must chose between the weak u-turn or the risky HJK. If you dont like scisor and you want a fast scouter use flygon, kojondo is worse than both of them in the scouting department
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Scizor
- Thread starter THE ENEMY
- Start date
Shaderaa is 2hko'ed by bullet punch after SR, so isnt a great enemy as you say.You talk like if coming in and spam u-turn is rather easy, kojondo lack of bulk and inmunity make really hard just enter in the battle, and when is the battle he must chose between the weak u-turn or the risky HJK. If you dont like scisor and you want a fast scouter use flygon, kojondo is worse than both of them in the scouting department
Kojondo and Scizor play two completely different roles anyhow. They only share Superpower and U-turn to their name. Kojondo is a quick Pokemon that revenge kills by overwhelming with power and using U-turn for scouting when it doesn't need to kill stuff. Scizor is a bulky fuck that can spam its STAB priority attack and brag strong U-turns, Pursuit-trap, etc.
Kojondo is a cool Pokemon I grant, but saying it's better than Scizor when 1) they're pretty different and 2) Scizor can actually switch into a attack makes it a fairly laughable concept.
Kojondo is a cool Pokemon I grant, but saying it's better than Scizor when 1) they're pretty different and 2) Scizor can actually switch into a attack makes it a fairly laughable concept.
It´s exactly this mentality/point that makes scizor superior to both flygon and kojondo (even though they have slightly different roles). a U turn from a banded scizor will actually hurt, and it´s not like with flygon where you´re basically only really in trouble when you´re having a tran on the field. This is becomeing off-topic flygon hate though so i´ll just say the following:
For succesful scouting you need to either
have a threatening u turn
or
threatening everything else.
kojondo is threatening on its own but U turn, which was really great some time ago but is plain predictable by now, wont do shit to anything neutral and not named jolteon. (i would´ve used kojondo as an example but it resists <.<)
flygon is...flygon.
and scizor has both, since STAB+band+BP=threatening and useful.
i´ll leave this without a meaningful last line.
I think Scizor is going to go back down the charts because there are so many new threats that can handle scizor. I just don't want it to be in OU anymore >.<
Ya I tried to explain how HJK missing basically means certain death.
But anyway when Shadow Tag Shanderaa is out it's still not as bad. You just Spam U-Turn until you know it's safe to Bullet Punch for the clean up. Heatran is a good reason for why U-Turning is important.
I got done with two matches last night where Scizor U-Turned all over the place (seeing as how he's easy to switch into stuff, something Kojando can't be proud of) and then I swept the last three pokemon with Bullet Punch. One match he was paralyzed, and it still raped.
Even Shadow Tag Shandy ain't scarin him off.
Wishful thinking buddy unfortunately he isn't goin anywhere :)
ENEMY: ah, ya, post number 39 does pretty much sum it up. That and Lee's post and my post above his.
Among a MYRIAD of other things too.
Add that to STAB U-Turn, and Scizor is still probly Top 5, maybe even #1 when its all said and done...
Scizor can just do too much with one set to not make him a top tier Pokemon.
With a simple CB set, you get a scout, revenge killer, end-game cleaner, and trapper. He's got the bulk to take some shots and the typing to go with it. Any team can use him barring full-stall and that is the key.
Even with our new candle menace, Scizor can always U-Turn or throw down a Pursuit on the switch for big damage on top of Stealth Rock. Remember, if Scizor gets trapped and KO'd or set up upon, Shanderaa can be revenged with your own Shanderaa and a scarf. Unless Scizor is trapped on Super Power, any move will deal good damage or let Scizor switch.
I'm not too concerned, Scizor is the perfect mix of moves, typing, stats and ability to not be a top tier threat.
With a simple CB set, you get a scout, revenge killer, end-game cleaner, and trapper. He's got the bulk to take some shots and the typing to go with it. Any team can use him barring full-stall and that is the key.
Even with our new candle menace, Scizor can always U-Turn or throw down a Pursuit on the switch for big damage on top of Stealth Rock. Remember, if Scizor gets trapped and KO'd or set up upon, Shanderaa can be revenged with your own Shanderaa and a scarf. Unless Scizor is trapped on Super Power, any move will deal good damage or let Scizor switch.
I'm not too concerned, Scizor is the perfect mix of moves, typing, stats and ability to not be a top tier threat.
Just updated the original post with the reasons why Scizor doesn't really have to worry about Shandera.
If Shandera is the best counter that exists, then Scizor isnt worried...
Does "Fury Cutter" is worth to use? It is get buff to 20 per hit.
STAB+Technician will rise it to 45 per hit, If 5 hits it will be 225 base atk move.
But 95x5 accuracy it will be shaky, and it need at least 3 hit to tie damage "Bug bite"
STAB+Technician will rise it to 45 per hit, If 5 hits it will be 225 base atk move.
But 95x5 accuracy it will be shaky, and it need at least 3 hit to tie damage "Bug bite"
Two reasons it does not work. It is two slow for competive play. Even using a revenge kill to get the first one so that the next is sitting on 60 bps. Then the next guy needs to be week to the attack or a sleep/frozen/encored for it to build to the point of being able to sweep. Second, it locks you into the move and without real gain. Your opponent will switch into someone that resists the attack if you are locked into it. As soon as you stop useing it your back to scare one. At least with just a choice item I don't need to set up to get the boost.
Stick to Uturn or Xscissor since they are the best stab attacks he learns. If you want a way to increase power to a choice item user just use Earthquake Spiral.
Err...Bug Bite get more damage than Xscissor. It's get Tecnician boost+STAB while X scissor only get STAB.
On choice set I will surly stick on U-Turn, But other set like SD set, does it worth able option?
On choice set I will surly stick on U-Turn, But other set like SD set, does it worth able option?
Forgot bug bite. My fault. Even on SD set bug bite is the better option. What is a better use of a turn in the long run. A SDance or initial cutter. It takes 3 attacks for fury cutter to be equal to Bug bite. You could of SD twice instead of attacking with Cutter and now all your attacks are boosted instead of just Cutter. Only time Cutter is better, is during a final push for the win, in which case Bullet Punch is the much more important attack due to priority.
I'm much more partial to U-turn on an SD set. Bullet Punch and Superpower will be your haymakers, while you still get to scout for counters with U-turn early on. If you try to SD too early, you risk the chance that a counter comes in, or worse still, Shandera. That could either mean lost momentum or a dead Scizor, neither of which I want. I can forego the raw power of Bug Bite if it means Scizor can be more of a versatile asset to my team.
Plus, no one's really going to be prepared for SD after they've seen you U-turn and Bullet Punch all match. They bring in something like Landlos that's just supposed to take U-turn, only to find me at +2 and ready to knock 'em dead. :D
EDIT: Forgot to mention I use Leftovers. With that, you can play him like a bulky, non-CB Scizor without losing health via U-turn scouting (which instantly tells your opponent you're running SD).
Plus, no one's really going to be prepared for SD after they've seen you U-turn and Bullet Punch all match. They bring in something like Landlos that's just supposed to take U-turn, only to find me at +2 and ready to knock 'em dead. :D
EDIT: Forgot to mention I use Leftovers. With that, you can play him like a bulky, non-CB Scizor without losing health via U-turn scouting (which instantly tells your opponent you're running SD).
Who wouldn't wanna decrease Grass Knot's power from 100 to 80? It's not like Scizor 4x resists it or anything...
Anyway, Scizor's utility this gen is indisputable, but it's far too presumptuous to give it the top spot when the metagame hasn't even fully settled. Scizor's old friends return to check it, as well as some new ones, such as Burungeru. Nattorei is in the same vein as Heatran, as it can come in on anything but choiced Superpower, and can proceed to setup and just be obnoxious in general (twave, leech seed). Scizor hurts itself punching Nattorei too.
However, Scizor's Technician boosted priority STAB is even more invaluable in this 5th gen clusterfuck of revenge killing, taking out frail sweepers and picking off weakened stuff. We'll see how Scizor settles once the dust dies down. At the beginning of the metagame, with Darkrai, Skymin, Deoxys and friends running around, Scizor will be a staple on many teams to deal with the aforementioned threats (well, it can only "deal with" Skymin. It has to revenge kill Deoxys and pick off a weakened Darkrai, but it still does better against them than a majority of the metagame).
Scizor like many of the staple 4th gen OU didn't get any new support but it got plenty of new counters (burungel , genosect, etc etc) but I doubt that is going to affect
anything.
Scizor was popular for it's cool design and high Resistance and priority it still going too be OU but genosect and Dory will probably take it's spotlight as one of the most use OU.
since tiering is based on usage unless they release a fire based entry hazard or give scyther a high priority flying type move or anything that could hinder it's popularity among the players scizor is one threat that isn't going away.
anything.
Scizor was popular for it's cool design and high Resistance and priority it still going too be OU but genosect and Dory will probably take it's spotlight as one of the most use OU.
since tiering is based on usage unless they release a fire based entry hazard or give scyther a high priority flying type move or anything that could hinder it's popularity among the players scizor is one threat that isn't going away.
I have to say after testing Scizor ive found him to be somewhat underwhelming this gen compared to his excellence last gen.
Scizor got a lot of new counters in the form of Burungeru,Shandera and such but didnt really gain anything this gen.There also isnt too many top threads this gen Scizor is one of the only checks to like last gen (read:Salamence).He will also have a extreemly hard time finding a spot in the team with new competition such as Genosect and Ditto.
Im not saying hes bad or anything but hes just not as amazing he was last gen.Deffinetly Ou but most deffinetly not Top Ou either.
Scizor got a lot of new counters in the form of Burungeru,Shandera and such but didnt really gain anything this gen.There also isnt too many top threads this gen Scizor is one of the only checks to like last gen (read:Salamence).He will also have a extreemly hard time finding a spot in the team with new competition such as Genosect and Ditto.
Im not saying hes bad or anything but hes just not as amazing he was last gen.Deffinetly Ou but most deffinetly not Top Ou either.
Yeah, Khan!!! Sorry mate, beat ya too it :)
I like this idea alot.
My only question would be is it smart to run Lefties on a SD+U-Turn Scizor?
I ask this for 2 reasons:
1. If you are trying to bluff a CB scizor as long as possible, then after some residual or other damage, the opponent will discover leftovers recovery. 9 times out of ten, leftovers on a Scizor means it has SD in OU play. And unless your opponent is new or stupid (which youd win anyway), he/she will know that too. So does it not defeat the purpose of bluff?
2. Even if you don't buy into the above point, there is still an argument to be made that there are other items which are simply better than leftovers anyway, which the ADDITION of being better for bluffing CB. Items like Metal Coat, SilverPowder, Occa Berry, or even Muscle Band.
Pretty sure Scizor doesn't learn Mach Punch. He gets Vacuum Wave.
