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Quality Control Seismitoad [QC 0/3]

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[OVERVIEW]
  • Seismitoad is a niche Stealth Rock setter that can blanket check a variety of top threats including Heatran, Tapu Koko, and Rotom-W.
  • Its lack of weakness to Hidden Power Ice and other coverage moves found on Electric-types lets it easily come in on them and block Volt Switch.
  • It's a good fit for offensive teams that appreciate the role compression it provides.
  • The combination of Scald, Toxic, and Earthquake can make Seismitoad annoying to pivot into for teams that lack a good status sponge.
  • However, Seismitoad is fairly passive and relies mostly on status to punish foes, so it can struggle a lot versus bulkier teams with Toxic-immune Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Tapu Fini.
  • It lacks any recovery outside of Leftovers, so it's prone to getting worn down and cannot repeatedly sponge strong hits from Pokemon like Battle Bond Greninja. It's also crippled by Knock Off and status conditions such as Toxic from Heatran.
  • It competes with a lot of other Ground-types to secure its spot on a team. Garchomp and Mamoswine can also set Stealth Rock but have greater offensive presences; Gliscor has access to reliable recovery, and can act as a status absorber allowing it to take on the likes of Heatran and Toxapex better; Gastrodon shares Seismitoad's typing and Water immunity, but also has better bulk and access to reliable recovery.

[SET]
name: Defensive Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Scald
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Sassy
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Seismitoad is a decent Stealth Rock setter since it has a good matchup against certain Defoggers like Rotom-W and Zapdos.
  • Earthquake is used over Earth Power because it does more damage to specially defensive Pokemon such as Heatran, Assault Vest Magearna, and Toxapex.
  • Toxic puts pressure on Defoggers like Tornadus-T and Zapdos that Seismitoad has trouble damaging directly and punishes Pokemon like Tangrowth and Mega Latias that would otherwise switch in freely.
  • Refresh can be used over Toxic to remove status from Pokemon like Heatran and Rotom-W and completely shut down Scald + Toxic Toxapex, but it leaves Seismitoad unable to pressure said Defoggers.
  • Knock Off can be considered over Earthquake to remove items like Leftovers from Ferrothorn and Tapu Fini and Assault Vest from Tangrowth. This can be beneficial for teammates like Ash-Greninja and Mega Alakazam.

Set Details
========
  • 8 Defense EVs ensure that Seismitoad lives Mega Mawile's Play Rough from full health.
  • Maximum HP and Special Defense investment lets Seismitoad comfortably switch into special attackers like Heatran and Tapu Koko.
  • A Sassy nature is used since Seismitoad is already very slow and doesn't want to compromise the damage output of Scald or Earthquake.

Usage Tips
========
  • Seismitoad can find opportunities to set Stealth Rock against Pokemon that it forces out like Heatran and Electric-types.
  • Be wary of lures such as Grassium Z Heatran. If not using Refresh, Seismitoad should also watch out for status moves from Pokemon like Heatran and Rotom-W.
  • Toxic should be used to pressure Defoggers like Tornadus-T and Zapdos that attempt to remove Seismitoad's Stealth Rock.
  • Seismitoad will have trouble setting Stealth Rock against teams that employ Defoggers like Tapu Fini and Gliscor, since they are immune to status. Remove these Pokemon before setting Stealth Rock if possible, or set Stealth Rock in order to ensure a safe switch to a teammate like Kartana as the opponent uses Defog.
  • Ferrothorn can easily switch into Seismitoad and trade Spikes if Seismitoad decides to use Stealth Rock. If you're not willing to make this trade or if you have already set Stealth Rock, then it's a good idea to double switch to a teammate that can pressure Ferrothorn to avoid giving it free turns.
  • Try to avoid letting Seismitoad take Knock Off or get afflicted by status; it's easily worn down once its passive recovery has been removed. Heatran, Toxapex, and Gliscor are common status inducers that Seismitoad needs to watch out for, and Pokemon like Tornadus-T and Mega Scizor commonly run Knock Off.
  • Switching Seismitoad into U-turn users like Tapu Koko and Victini can be risky, since the opponent can use the opportunity to bring in a wallbreaker like Mega Medicham.
  • Seismitoad's only decent bulk means that it's rather dependent on its resistances to function as a wall, so it can't repeatedly sponge strong neutral hits. Think carefully before switching it into Pokemon like Ash-Greninja and Blacephalon that can hit it hard with their secondary STAB moves.
  • In some matchups, it can be useful to conserve Seismitoad even if its HP is very low. Just by virtue of being alive, Seismitoad will make rain sweepers like Ash-Greninja and Kingdra think twice before using their Water-type attacks; a misprediction from the opponent will not only cost them momentum, but also restore Seismitoad's health thanks to Water Absorb.

Team Options
========
  • Seismitoad fits best on bulky offensive teams that appreciate the role compression it provides as a Stealth Rock setter, Volt Switch immunity, and check to numerous threats.
  • Teammates such as Mega Scizor, Celesteela, Rocky Helmet Tornadus-T, and Zapdos are appreciated for their ability to reliably deal with Grass-types like Tapu Bulu and Kartana. In return, these Pokemon appreciate Seismitoad's ability to deal with Heatran and Electric-types.
  • Fire-types like Heatran and Mega Charizard X can immensely pressure Grass-types for Seismitoad and weaken Pokemon like Tapu Fini and Toxapex that annoy it.
  • It's a good idea to pair a Dark-resistant Pokemon with Seismitoad since it can easily get overwhelmed by Dark Pulse from Battle Bond Greninja. Heart Swap Magearna can help to check Pokemon like Tapu Lele and Mega Alakazam, which tend to overwhelm Seismitoad, and steal Calm Mind boosts from Reuniclus and Clefable should they attempt to use Seismitoad as setup fodder. Tapu Bulu is free to run a more offensive set with Seismitoad acting as the primary check to Water- and Electric-types; Grassy Terrain makes Seismitoad much harder to wear down and lets it switch into additional threats like Mega Swampert and Landorus-T.
  • Wallbreakers like Mega Medicham and Hoopa-U put a lot of pressure on the defensive teams that Seismitoad struggles with.
  • Fast, offensive partners like Mega Lopunny and Choice Scarf Kartana help to compensate for Seismitoad's passivity and middling Speed.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • If Seismitoad is paired with Tapu Bulu, Stomping Tantrum should be used over Earthquake since its power isn't weakened by Grassy Terrain.
  • Poison Jab 2HKOes Tapu Bulu, but it doesn't do much damage to anything else.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Grass-type Pokemon and Grass-type Coverage**: Offensive Pokemon like Tapu Bulu, Kartana, and Serperior and defensive Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Tangrowth, and Amoonguss take very little from Seismitoad's STAB moves and can either OHKO it with their attacks or take advantage of it. However, they're annoyed by Scald burns and Toxic. Heatran can lure in Seismitoad and OHKO it with Bloom Doom.

**Status-immune Pokemon**: Pokemon such as Tapu Fini, Gliscor, Clefable, Reuniclus, and Chansey are immune to status from Scald and Toxic and don't mind Earthquake. Tapu Fini can use Defog to remove Seismitoad's Stealth Rock and Nature's Madness to whittle it down; Swords Dance Gliscor, Calm Mind Clefable, and Reuniclus can use it as setup fodder; Chansey can put Seismitoad on a timer with Toxic.

**Offensive Pressure**: Wallbreakers like Mega Medicham, Choice Band Hoopa-U, and Choice Specs Tapu Lele can deal lethal amounts of damage to Seismitoad with their attacks. Sweepers like Hawlucha and Mega Gyarados can easily tank a hit from Seismitoad and use the opportunity to set up, although they must be wary of Scald burns and Toxic.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[bigtalk, 466663]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 
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I'm gonna give you 30 minutes to delete all of this and start from scratch because you announced where you took it from. Do not plagiarize, we take this extremely seriously.
OK, I apologize for that. I did write most of it myself though, and for the stuff that I did copy-- there are a lot of similarities between Seismitoad and Gastrodon, to the point where it'd be hard not to end up rephrasing what was said over there, one way or another. For example, I thought of Mega Scizor and Celesteela as partners myself, then found out it was also listed in Team Options over there. They also check more or less the same things.
 
Last edited:

Jordy

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..So what you're saying is that you were actively checking the Gastrodon analysis? That doesn't exactly help your case. As much as Seismitoad and Gastrodon are similar Pokemon, that does not and will never excuse plagiarism.
 

GMars

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OK, I apologize for that. I did write most of it myself though, and for the stuff that I did copy-- there are a lot of similarities between Seismitoad and Gastrodon, to the point where it'd be hard not to end up rephrasing what was said over there, one way or another. For example, I thought of Mega Scizor and Celesteela as partners myself, then found out it was also listed in Team Options over there. They also check more or less the same things.
It's okay if there are similarities, but analyses should be written completely by yourself from scratch with the knowledge you have of the Pokemon. QC is there to check that out, provide any corrections, or fill in any gaps. Relying too much on external resources leads to issues.
 
Yeah i'm sorry but i'm going to have to QC reject this.

To put it bluntly, this analysis just doesn’t actually convey what niche it has in the current metagame and just really doesn’t go in depth at all outside of filler / dex information. As it currently stands, it would require QC to basically rewrite this, which really isn’t ideal.

For transparency’s sake, here’s the issues I currently have with this analysis:

Starting with the overview, it really doesn't convey why I should use seismiotad in the current meta; the furthest you've gone to explain its niche in the current meta is basically "it checks stuff and gets rocks up" which obviously isn't great because you're missing a lot of key information, particularly explaining why you actually should use seismitoad over anything else. I get that you mention that it has a lot of similar qualities to gastrodon but you don't mention any other grounds which is important because you're not usually going to be using gastro on offensive builds because it's so passive, nor would you use seimi on bulkier builds due to better access to rockers / grounds / fat waters. I also don't like how this overlooks a lot of other niches / drawbacks such the fact that it compresses slots on offence or the fact that you’re reliant on toxic to keep them up versus a lot of removers to name some. Aside from that, a large portion of information is also considered useless by our current standards and is just a really awkward way to sort of describe its niche anyways.

The moves section also has a similar problem of just unnecessarily bloating a pretty straightforwards section; there isn't any need to mention what stealth rock does, nor are there any reasons to describe what scald does because that's common knowledge. I personally don't like the fact that that you've decided to slash so many options on toxic because seimitoad generally struggles to drop toxic / earthquake, which greatly changes how offence deals with it; because it's so impactful, so there definitively needs to mention what move you'd generally want to replace. eg. "knock off is an option over scald". QC also agrees that protect is way too hard to fit into seismi's moveset to begin with and really shouldn't be slashed at all and should be removed altogether.

Similarly with usage tips and set details, there's just a lot of unnecessary content between stating what a basic spread does and detailing a pretty straightforwards item. I also really dislike the blacephalon + tornandus mentions because you're not supposed to be checking the latter and there are far more significant mons to mentionn before blacephalon. I also don't like the fact that you don't mention the fact that it's status weak anywhere in this section, other than the one line about refreshh. Similarly, there isn't an emphasis to scout, which is a huge part of using seismi because it does have the capacity to check to lose to a lot of these threats if played properly. There aren't any mentions of toxic, which is significant for it to beat stuff like rotom / tornadus etc.

when it comes to team options, you're not just running it alongside solely grass checks and dark resists; there needs to be an actual indicator of what playstyle you're using it on and actually suggest partners that properly checks the mons you're discussing; there's on point in running something w/ seismi if it still loses to it.

as for the rest of the analysis, none of the other options are viable; grass-types and grass-type moves shouldn't be separated; seimi isn't a zard check regardless of solar beam and giga drain volc is not a good set.


If you have any questions, feel free to ask me on discord, but I hope you can understand why we've taken it in this direction.
 

Sayuze

Oedo Onsen
is a Tiering Contributor
Not qc or anything but i thought i'd add my two cents:

seismitoad definitely does not check greninja (252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Seismitoad: 144-171 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- 71.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery)

wouldnt say its too difficult to switch into, something like toxic pex p much walls it as well as some bulky grasses dont mind being toxiced too much

is gastro a good comparison? they both have their own seperate niches for sure like rocks for toad and gastro being able to learn recover and kinda have different roles

to be honest, you dont always force lando out (252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Seismitoad: 225-265 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery).
 
Not qc or anything but i thought i'd add my two cents:

seismitoad definitely does not check greninja (252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Seismitoad: 144-171 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- 71.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery)
Well technically, a check is something that can beat it in a 1v1 scenario. I understand where you're coming from though and ig i agree its somewhat misleading to mention Greninja next to stuff that it hard counters like Tapu Koko (maybe "being a decent pivot into Greninja" would be better phrasing?)
wouldnt say its too difficult to switch into, something like toxic pex p much walls it as well as some bulky grasses dont mind being toxiced too much
Getting burned is still super aids for stuff like bulu though, and you can start pressuring pex significantly with eq once its burned/potentially knocked.
is gastro a good comparison? they both have their own seperate niches for sure like rocks for toad and gastro being able to learn recover and kinda have different roles
They both have niches in being able to role compress checking Heatran + waters + electrics which few other mons can do. I think their differences are just a matter of what team archetype each fits on and their durability.
to be honest, you dont always force lando out (252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Seismitoad: 225-265 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery).
Yes, but Lando usually won't want to stay in on a potential Scald burn.
 
Just dropping by to leave some comments

"A lack of weakness to HP ice and other coverage..., which lets it block Volt"
This doesnt make sense

"Good matchup against... Landorus-T"
I'm going to echo Sayuze, toad doesnt have good matchup vs landot, especially since uve mentioned that its prone to getting whittled down, and if u let lando get a big eq off u youre just unable to consistently check what youre supposed check later

"Sassy nature is used in order to not lower the power of Scald or Earthquake"
Nitpick but nature doesnt lower base power

"Seismitoad struggles with Tapu Fini and Gliscor as Defoggers, ... Ferrothorn can easily switch into Seismitoad... It's beneficial to weaken or remove these Pokemon before attempting to set Stealth Rock"
You get up rocks when you force a mon up like what u said in the start of usage tips. Does the above mean we need to get rid of the defoggers before laying hazards? If u force them to defog ure benefitting because they just spent a turn defogging.

"Think twice before switching it into Pokemon like Ash-Greninja and Blacephalon" "Think twice before sending Seismitoad into U-turn users like Tapu Koko and Victini"
What am i thinking twice about?

"Offensive Pokemon like Tapu Bulu, Kartana, Serperior and defensive Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, and Mega Venusaur do not mind Seismitoad's STAB moves... However, many of them are annoyed by Scald burns or Toxic."
I think you need to reword this, cuz rn these contradict w/ each other
 

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