Resource [Series 5] Sword/Shield BSS Viability Rankings

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The Vish survives another day. Yeah having it stay at B is solid cause some teams just straight up don’t have good checks or counters for Vish and they just makes the game tilted heavily towards the Vish’s favor.
 

Psynergy

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Now that we have official confirmation, I want to clarify a few things about Pokemon HOME stuff. For anyone who is unaware, HOME changes very little for BSS at the moment, the only change is that previously unreleased abilities for past gen Pokemon are now legal (Unaware Clefable, Sturdy Avalugg, etc). Unreleased abilities for Galar Pokemon are still not available, for clarification, so still no Libero Cinderace or Sand Rush Dracozolt/Dracovish.

No new Pokemon or regional forms are allowed this season so they will not be ranked at the moment, but we now have confirmation that starting next season we will have access to Venusaur, Blastoise, Decidueye, Primarina, Incineroar, and regional forms. We are restricted to Pokemon caught or bred in Galar though, which means that Alolan Raichu and Kantonian Weezing still won't be allowed, since there is no way to evolve Pikachu or Koffing into these forms within the current game. This also bans all transfer-only moves, so things like Toxic Aegislash, Roost Togekiss, and Knock Off Conkeldurr are not relevant to this metagame.

These Pokemon additions will happen starting in Series 3, which begins on March 1st. We will be placing the new additions that we believe are viable in a "New Pokemon" rank with the next vote, and will not be properly placing them until after we see how they perform in the Series 3 metagame. Due to the nature of these additions they may be voted on separately before the end of Series 3, but that will not be until mid March at the earliest so don't expect to see Venusaur and friends properly ranked quite yet.

And that's it for now, hope this clarifies any questions about the HOME additions!
 

marilli

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Rotom-H: A+-> A

Tyranitar is a big can of worms, so let's leave that for now.

ANYways, what isn't so controversial is Rotom-H A+ -> A. Only 2 councilmembers ranked it at exactly 7th, many ranked it 8th or below, which seems odd for a Pokemon that has "majority vote for significantly stronger than the 8th Pokemon, as one of the 7 Pokemon in S or A+"

Dracozolt, Lapras: B -> B+

I really like these Pokemon for what they do - difficult coverage to switch into, and has a very defined defensive niche in order to get the chance to do the damages it wants to do. It seems way better than something like Charizard, which is just another Airstream sweeper and doesnt really have that clear niche unless it has a full slot of team support for weather.

OR,

Umbreon, Charizard: B+ -> B


It just depends on where you want to cut off the Pokemon anyways, these seemed to be the weakest B+ Pokemon by a significant margin (Umbreon is also fairly significantly worse than Sylveon)

Sylveon: A- -> B+

Yawn being heavily prepped for, and Snorlax being the emergent special Dragon check with its AV set, hurts Sylveon's niche significantly. Not a nom I enjoy making, and I honestly still think Sylveon is A-, but I figured some would deem in appropriate because I seem to be in the minority here.

These would be the final changes I would be comfortable making for the current season. I brought all of this up internally amongst VR council. However, the new season is bound to significantly shake up the metagame with Home. It remains to see how exactly any of those will change.
 
What does everyone think of Lucario? It has seen more usage than Quagsire and a couple of B- rank Pokemon according to pokesol. (Also supporting Chandelure to be ranked.)
 

marilli

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Lucario will always get more usage then it deserves because of a popular streamer spamming it. It really has no real reason to be used. Fighting type moves suck as STAB Max moves. As a fast Fighting, Hawlucha is better. As a fast Steel, Durant is better. It just basically uses Sash counter trying to be useful because it otherwise can't do a whole lot. It may be ranked at the bottom of C but honestly it doesn't make much a difference. It's not going above Quagsire on VR lol.

Chandelure being ranked is fine. B- or C would be fair.
 

1_TrickPhony

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What does everyone think of Lucario? It has seen more usage than Quagsire and a couple of B- rank Pokemon according to pokesol. (Also supporting Chandelure to be ranked.)
Its gotten a good amount of usage for its sash set and is decently good at what it does. Another mon I'd be in favor of putting in C.
 
Thought I would give a new slate of opinions since I haven't really given one since the last update.

S Rank

I'm not really sure what to do with S Rank ATM and the major issue is that Mimikyu is just so much better than Excadrill/Dragapult. It's slappable on every team, Curse + Trick Room has given it a new dimension as well as now more commonly seen techs such as Wood Hammer for Water/Grounds whilst also being another way to get momentum through killing yourself. For now, think just keep it at these three, but if there is a way to differentiate Mimikyu like having an SS Rank with just Mimikyu in it on its own that'd be fine with me.

A+ Rank

Snorlax -> A+

In my personal opinion Snorlax, Corviknight and Togekiss are the best three pokemon outside of the S pokemon and should be the three placed in A+. I previously put Snorlax as 7th behind Rotom-W but I think it's currently 6th place. It has the bulk, unpredictability and ability to be brought in the vast majority of matchups.

Other Comments:

I think Corviknight might eventually be dropped down due to it being somewhat unsuited to the fast meta played despite its clear strengths as well as the prevalence of Rotom on most teams, which dicks it over.

A Rank

I think all the current A rankers are worthy of being in A. Rough order of A imo is something like Rotom Formes, Gyara, Hydrei, TTar, Darm Galar in how good they are.

Two pokemon that I think are starting to hit this threshold are Aegislash and Hippowdon and these should be considered though I won't directly nominate them.

A- Rank

Im largely in agreement except two things:

Sylveon -> B+

Sylveon I just think has gotten a bit weaker now people have become better at playing around yawn with stuff like Lum Berry. It's kind of on the border of A- and B+. Rising competition from Clefable and Lapras as a Hydreigon check is a big thing and Lapras can hit Togekiss too.

Unsure also whether Rotom-C should be in this tier though I won't directly nominate it, it has a larger opportunity cost than most of these pokemon here merely because it means you can't use Rotom-W/H and it doesn't resist Max Airstream which means its far worse at checking Gyara/Togekiss or even BU Corviknight.

B Ranks:

Not gonna give justifications for these, but my thoughts

Currently B+

Charizard -> B
Umbreon -> B

Currently B

Dracozolt -> B+
Lapras -> B+
Haxorus -> B-

Currently B-

Type Null -> B
Clefable -> B
Glalie -> C
 
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Psynergy

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Hi, been awhile since the last vote but just in time for BSPL, the next round of voting is up. We gave this one some more time since the longer cart season gives us some more breathing room to account for the entirely new additions to the metagame after Pokemon Home. In this vote all of the VR Council voted except Charlotte, who has been incredibly busy as of late.

This time we did things a bit differently and simplified the process, at the cost of having detailed reasoning from everyone. I will still try to provide reasoning for more important or potentially controversial changes here, but if you feel like further reasoning is necessary for the others feel free to ask. Pretty much everything voted on was moved except for Sylveon, and there was not enough support for Lucario or Blastoise to rank them either, so unless you have a strong argument or there are very clear meta shifts suggesting otherwise we probably won't look at these ones again next vote. Below is a chart of everyone's votes, but the final changes are summarized at the bottom.

Smogon UsernameRotom-H: A+ -> ATyranitar: A+ -> ASnorlax: A -> A+Hippowdon: A- -> ASylveon: A- -> B+Dracozolt: B -> B+Lapras: B -> B+ or A-Umbreon: B+ -> BCharizard: B+ -> BHaxorus: B -> B-Glalie: B- -> CPrimarina: UR -> BCrawdaunt: UR -> CIncineroar: UR -> CVenusaur: UR -> CBlastoise: UR -> CLucario: UR -> CChandelure: UR -> C or B-
TheorymonDrop to AStay A+Rise to A+Rise to AStay A-Rise to B+Rise to B+Drop to BStay B+Drop to B-Drop to CRise to BRise to CRise to CRise to CRise to CStay URRise to C
marilliDrop to ADrop to ARise to A+Rise to AStay A-Rise to B+Rise to B+Drop to BDrop to BDrop to B-UnrankedRise to BRise to CRise to CabstainabstainabstainRise to B-
1_TrickPhonyDrop to ADrop to ARise to A+Rise to AabstainRise to B+Rise to A-Drop to BDrop to BDrop to B-Drop to CRise to B-Rise to CRise to CRise to CStay URRise to CRise to C
PsynergyDrop to ADrop to ARise to A+Rise to ADrop to B+Rise to B+Rise to B+Drop to BDrop to BDrop to B-Drop to CRise to BRise to CRise to CRise to CStay URStay URRise to C
Greilmercenary9Drop to ADrop to ARise to A+Rise to ADrop to B+Rise to B+Rise to A-Drop to BDrop to BStay BDrop to CRise to BRise to CRise to B-Stay URabstainStay URRise to C
DragonWhaleStay A+Drop to ARise to A+Rise to ADrop to B+Rise to B+Rise to A-Drop to BDrop to BStay BDrop to CRise to B-Rise to CRise to CRise to CRise to CStay URRise to C
cant sayStay A+Stay A+Rise to A+Rise to AStay A-Rise to B+Rise to B+Drop to BStay B+Stay BStay B-haven’t seen enough. don’t get what it does. C?Rise to CRise to CRise to CRise to CStay URRise to C
Final ResultDrop to ADrop to ARise to A+Rise to AStay A-Rise to B+Rise to B+Drop to BDrop to BDrop to B-Drop to CRise to BRise to CRise to CRise to CStay URStay URRise to C


Notable Changes:
Rotom-H and Tyranitar drop to A this time after not dropping the previous vote. Normally we don't want to be revisiting the same nominations until something changes, but further vote and internal discussion led to this change. Rotom-H regularly ranked well below the Top 5 in every VR Council member's ranking of the top 30 or so Pokemon (an effort organized by marilli), so the A+ ranking felt out of place for a lot of us. Meanwhile, most of us still believe Tyranitar is one of the more powerful Pokemon in the metagame, but a dip in usage and differing opinions on the top spots in the metagame resulted in more agreement in moving Tyranitar to A.

Snorlax rises to A+ taking the place of the aforementioned Rotom-H and Tyranitar in A+. This is another reason for the above change, Snorlax continues to prove itself as one of the best Pokemon in the metagame and as such it felt more appropriate to rank Snorlax among the fairly exclusive A+ rank. Due to its incredible bulk and powerful setup options, Snorlax is a major threat in the current metagame that many Pokemon struggle to deal with in an individual matchup. The lack of Fighting-types in the metagame outside of the occasional Conkeldurr also makes it difficult to have an easy answer to Snorlax, allowing it to smash through unprepared teams.

Hippowdon rise to A as it slowly rises to reclaim its place from Gen 7 as the premier Stealth Rock setter. While Stealth Rock setters remain limited in the metagame, Hippowdon is still the most reliable option to enable a sweep for a teammate. Very little about Hippowdon itself has changed aside from the addition of an offensive Trick Room set adding to its versatility. though the Stealth Rock set remains the primary selling point. It just took time for the metagame to develop to a point where it's clear that Hippowdon is still an amazing Pokemon, even if Dynamax mechanics make things tougher.

Among the new additions to the metagame, we ended up ranking Primarina, Incineroar, and Venusaur for now. Primarina is the most notable of the bunch at B rank while the other two are added among the C rank Pokemon. We may be overrating these or even underrating them, but these will definitely be revisited at the end of the season once we've seen further results with the new additions.

Summary:
Rotom-H drops from A+ to A
Tyranitar drops from A+ to A
Snorlax rises from A to A+
Hippowdon rises from A- to A
Dracozolt rises from B to B+
Lapras rises from B to B+
Umbreon drops from B+ to B
Charizard drops from B+ to B
Haxorus drops from B to B-
Glalie drops from B- to C
Primarina rises from UR to B
Crawdaunt rises from UR to C
Incineroar rises from UR to C
Venusaur rises from UR to C
Chandelure rises from UR to C
 
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A few VR Changes for consideration.

Aegislash -> A: I think Aegislash is top 10 in the game...again. It's the best trader in the game (asides from Mimi) and nothing really switches well into it. When Dynamax is off the table, Aegi will beat most pokemon so it also forces Dynamax if you want it not to clean up 1.5 pokemon.

Lapras -> A-: Lapras has become more and more part of the meta due to the rise of Gigantamax Lapras (WP/AV). It does definitely have weaknesses, but is definitely in the A- Range.

Milotic -> B: Milotic I think is a bit underrated and honestly a very annoying bulky water. Both Marvel Scale and competitive are very hard abilities to play around.
 
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Just to tack on a few myself

Lapras: B+ -> A- :Lapras:
Yeah, as Ika already said, this thing is a big part of the normal meta now with its Gmax making its splash and resonating through teams.

Conkeldurr: B -> B+ :Conkeldurr:
Coincidentally, with Lapras rising in usage and the ever present thorn that is Snorlax, Conkeldurr is a really nice choice to deal with both and is honestly just becoming more and more useful. Although, the amount of pesky Fairies, Ghosts, and Airstreamers roaming around keep it rooted down in B imo.

Type:Null: B- -> B :Type-Null:
What can I say? I love my slow pivots. Type:Null sets up a lot of things for me that can lead to an easier sweep with its speed control into slow pivot and I think it’s pretty solid as a lead when you want to use set-ups against certain leads.
 
Few Changes
B+ to A-
1587270640126.png

Lapras is everywhere and is seriously becoming a big part to the metagame. Nice tank, stallbreaker, and Vish answer. AV and WP don't matter, this thing puts in a ton of work.

Conkeldurr: B to B+
1587270790176.png

With Lapras and Snorlax gaining traction, Conk is a nice little answer to both them. One of my favoritre wallbreakers to use and a good status absorber.

Aegislash: A- to A
aegislash.png

Feels like this pokemon has gotten even better for some unknown reason. Arguably the best trader in the game, hits extremely hard, and is wildly unpredictable with the sets + coverage it can run.

Incineroar: C to C+
incineroar.png

Although I see it sparingly on showdown, I see this thing ALOT on Cart. Nice intimidate mon, very decent pivot and likes to burn you, slow pivot around, and hit you with the STAB Flare Blitz or Darkest Lariat. Sets i've seen was usually Aguav or AV. Solid answer to Physical Dragapult, Aegislash, and SD Mimikyu sets as well.

Hydreigon: A to A-
hydreigon.png

The current meta has not been nice to Hydrei. Still a solid mon, but with Lax, Lapras, and Conk running around, it feels much harder to it to put in work.
 
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Psynergy

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With BSPL coming to a close soon and another month going by, the next vote is now up! Unfortunately though, Charlotte has decided to step down from the VR Council due to a declining interest in Pokemon at the moment, and will no longer be joining us in these votes. Hopefully we'll see you back someday, and thanks for being around!

We looked at another large slate of Pokemon in addition to the ones posted here since last time, this time we only have 7 voters but this does avoid the issue of tiebreaks for the given votes. Despite there not being much new like in past months, there's still a lot of meta changes and this vote will reflect a lot of those meta changes. There may be another shorter vote later this month since there's still stuff I'd like to look at, but this list is long enough as is. I'll detail a few of the more notable changes below, but a few of us gave further reasoning in our votes within. Apologies for the chart looking ugly, but that's why it's in a hide tag.


Smogon UsernameExcadrill: S -> A+Snorlax: A+ -> SHydreigon: A -> A-Ferrothorn: A- -> AAegislash: A- -> ASylveon: A- -> B+Grimmsnarl: A- -> B+Rotom-Mow: A- -> B+Lapras: B+ -> A or A-Dracozolt: B+ -> A-Primarina: B -> A- or B+Conkeldurr: B -> B+Duraludon: B -> B-Umbreon: B -> B-Clefable: B- -> B+ or BDiggersby: B- -> B+ or BMilotic: B- -> BType: Null: B- -> BIncineroar: C -> B or B-Alcremie: C -> URDubwool: C -> URGreedent: C -> URLucario: UR -> C
marilliDrop to A+Rise to SDrop to A-Rise to ARise to ADrop to B+Drop to B+Drop to B+Rise to ARise to A-Rise to B+Rise to B+Stay BDrop to B-Rise to B+Rise to B+Stay B-Stay B-Rise to B-Drop to URDrop to URDrop to URRise to C
1TPA+ This is really close, tbh its been better than it has been recently. I'd say last season it was more A+ material, now its on the fence. Voting A+ simply because of the rise of Wisp Pult.Rise to SA-. Once a king of BSS, there are now simply too many damn fairies everywhere. And it might have steel coverage, but its not doing anything without a NP boost. If running choiced, it gets preyed on by fairies. If NP/Sub, it gets beaten by the most used mon in the game, dragapult.Rise to AA-. A is getting really crowded with Lapras and Ferro most likely passing it, and I dont think its as good as those two right now. I like Aegislash as the gatekeeper for A-, and it wont be too out of place with dracozolt and hydrei joining it.Drop to B+Drop to B+Drop to B+Rise to ARise to A-B+. In between A- and B+, it has a ton of usage and is succeeding unlike other previous "new toy" examples. I dont mind moving it one slot now,B. Too manyStay BB-. Its foul play niche is real, but it is simply a niche. If you want to yawn, use Snorlax.B+. This thing has so many ultra dangerous sets, and now that unaware sets are a thing, you have to make a ton of hard decisions on whether or not to do things like taunt or toxic on team preview, while risking getting blasted away by life orb.Rise to B+Stay B-Stay B-B. Its been gaining a ton of traction, as about the 15th most used pokemon with over 10% usage, it makes no sense to put it in B- with pokemon that are like 1-3% usage. I have questions about how good it actually is, but same can be said for just about every other pokemon in B rnDrop to URDrop to URDrop to URRise to C
twitch.tv/jakecantsayDrop to A+Rise to SDrop to A-Rise to AStay A-Drop to B+Drop to B+Stay A-Rise to AStay B+Rise to B+Rise to B+Drop to B-Drop to B-Rise to B+Rise to B+Stay B-Stay B-Rise to B-Stay CStay CDrop to URRise to C
DWStay SRise to SDrop to A-Rise to AStay A-Drop to B+Drop to B+Drop to B+Rise to ARise to A-Rise to A-Rise to B+Drop to B-Drop to B-Rise to B+Rise to B+Stay B-Rise to BRise to B-Drop to URDrop to URDrop to URRise to C
Greilmercenary9S, I think this is a close call, but Sash Mold Breaker is still a great catch-all check and one of the best Mimi/Fairy checks around. That matters with 4 of them top 15, but the Lapras meta has been unkind to it otherwise with Lapras, Ferro, and Prima (one of the 4 top 15 fairies) handling it fairly well most of the time. Utility against Clef and Toge keeps it on this side of S for the moment by the slimmest of margins IMO.S, this thing just doesn't die--Fighting STAB is basically nonexistant and Lax has enough offensive and defensive pressure to make it a total monster. Also has about 10 million fully viable sets.A-, Hydra has plummeted in usage late S5 and for good reason; four fairies now populate the top 15 in usage, and as someone who placed top 200 S5 with a Hydra on my team, I can say that it was reduced to fairly token usage in many matchups. Still a strong Rotom check in particular but losing traction in the meta right now.A, Easy rise here as Ferro does extremely well against almost all of the new wave mons (Lapras, Prima, and to a lesser degree Clef)Stay A-Drop to B+Drop to B+Drop to B+A, this thing has been meta defining in ways that mons below A are not. Ferrothorn in particular has seen a huge resurgence as one of the best checks, while niche stuff like Frosmoth and Shedinja have started to see viability and actual usage largely because they flat out counter this.A-, Hustle + Dynamax is always a fun combo but this thing also benefits from the Lapras meta since it runs through the new wave Water types and also is powerful enough without Atk boosts to actually scare Unaware mons, even Clef.A-, Prima is deceptively good. It benefits tremendously from Energy Ball to take on Lapras, Water/Grounds, etc, but can also run several fairly viable sets such as Sash, CM Sitrus, Specs, AV, etc.B, You'd think it would be good in the Lapras meta and maybe go up in usage as Lapras, Ferro, and Lax continue to be prominent, but Conk suffers from being a sitting duck against almost all Fairy types in a totally Fairy infested meta, and with these Fairies partnering with most of the previously mentioned mons it tends to be much harder to bring in practice than in theory.Drop to B-Drop to B-B+, Unaware has really given Clef more staying power, as having to respect both Unaware and Magic Guard sets makes this much more difficult to handle. Very versatile and IMO probably better than Sylveon in most roles. Could even be A- I think but it's debateable and I think a 2 tier rise is probably an adequate reflection for the moment.Rise to BRise to BStay B-B, Not the greatest thing out there but rose to #16 in usage by the end of S5 and is a pivotal component in the new wave of FWG cores often featuring Ferro and Lapras/Prima.Drop to URDrop to URDrop to URRise to C
PsynergyStay SRise to SA-, I still really like Hydreigon but increase in good Fairies hurts unfortunatelyRise to AStay A-Drop to B+Drop to B+Drop to B+Rise to ARise to A-Rise to A-Stay BDrop to B-Drop to B-Rise to B+Rise to BB-, has potential to rise but I want to see more of it firstStay B-B, it's at least better than ArcanineDrop to URDrop to URDrop to URRise to C
TheorymonStay SRise to SDrop to A-Rise to ARise to ADrop to B+Stay A-Drop to B+Rise to A-Rise to A-Rise to B+Rise to B+Drop to B-Drop to B-Rise to B+Rise to B+Rise to BRise to BRise to B-Drop to URStay CDrop to URRise to C
Final ResultStay SRise to SDrop to A-Rise to AStay A-Drop to B+Drop to B+Drop to B+Rise to ARise to A-Rise to B+Rise to B+Drop to B-Drop to B-Rise to B+Rise to B+Stay B-Stay B-Rise to B-Drop to URDrop to URDrop to URRise to C


Notable Changes
Snorlax rises again to S because honestly this thing is broken. It may not have the absolute highest usage in the metagame but as people continue to experiment with its sets it's very clear that Snorlax is just way too versatile for a meta whose best Fighting-type is actually an Ice-type with Gorilla Tactics. Curse, Assault Vest, Belly Drum, Yawn support, Snorlax can do it all. Beating this thing takes a concerted effort in the teambuilding stage, which has led to an increase in Conkeldurr usage just to deter Snorlax, and that isn't always enough either since Snorlax is often paired with Togekiss or Mimikyu (or both!) which often scare Conkeldurr back out instead. The better the Fighting-type deterrents become, the better that Snorlax becomes with it, and until we see more worthwhile Fighting-types we will continue to see Snorlax dominate in this meta.

A number of Pokemon have fallen a bit out of the meta, most notably Hydreigon dropping to A-. Hydreigon is still a very powerful Nasty Plot sweeper that works very well with Dynamax, but as we see in an increase in Fairy-types such as Clefable and Primarina the meta becomes tougher for Hydreigon to handle. Meanwhile, Sylveon, Grimmsnarl, and Rotom-Mow drop further down to B+. Tougher Fairy competition hurts Sylveon while its Yawn niche competes with Snorlax as well, and Rotom-Mow struggles with the fact that Wash and Heat are simply better Rotom formes on most teams that might otherwise consider it. G-Max Lapras and Infiltrator Dragapult also encroach heavily on Grimmsnarl's screen setting niche, making it less desirable as well.

Notable rises in the A tier, Lapras is a standout here with G-Max Resonance continuing to show off just how dangerous Lapras can be. It's definitely one of the stronger Weakness Policy users and it has a number of other tools to get by even without using Dynamax. Ferrothorn and Dracozolt rise into A and A- respectively, partly as a result of Lapras rising into prominence since these two fare well against it. Not much has changed for them, except for the fact that the recent meta shifts play very favorably into their strengths. Ferrothorn does very well at checking the rising usage in Fairy- and Water-types, while Dracozolt's insane breaking power with Hustle and Dynamax works wonders even in the face of Clefable.

Notable rises in the B tier, these are a lot of new faces rising with the current meta shifts and their place is still in major flux. All of these except for Incineroar are rising into B+, and some of them may even be reviewed for a further increase later. Primarina continues to impress as a more offensive-oriented Lapras with a lot of flexibility in its offensive options, making it threatening regardless of Dynamax. Meanwhile Clefable spikes up fast as Unaware continues to help it diversify its set options, making it very difficult to predict at Team Preview as it can be either offensive or defensive. Conkeldurr sees a rise as well due to matching up well against the menace of Snorlax and Lapras in the current meta. To a lesser extent, Flame Orb being less of a nightmare to get on cart helps as well. Meanwhile Diggersby gets a lot out of its powerful STAB combination and the dangerous Huge Power boosted Foul Play, making it a deceptively powerful Scarf user. Incineroar's hype might turn out to be short-lived, but a niche as a bulky Fire-type with strong pivot options catapulted it to usage high enough that C tier really does not accurately reflect it.


Summary
Snorlax rises from A+ to S
Hydreigon drops from A to A-
Ferrothorn rises from A- to A
Sylveon drops from A- to B+
Grimmsnarl drops from A- to B+
Rotom-Mow drops from A- to B+
Lapras rises from B+ to A
Dracozolt rises from B+ to A-
Primarina rises from B to B+
Conkeldurr rises from B to B+
Duraludon drops from B to B-
Umbreon drops from B to B-
Clefable rises from B- to B+
Diggersby rises from B- to B+
Incineroar rises from C to B-
Alcremie drops from C to UR
Dubwool drops from C to UR
Greedent drops from C to UR
Lucario rises from UR to C
 
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Good changes, I have a few more comments as the meta continues to evolve. Mostly focusing on the top portion of the chart.

Cloyster A- -> B+: I think Cloyster usage has dropped off considerably since earlier on in the metagame. Part of the reason for this is the rise of bulkier pokemon such as Lapras, Ferrothorn, Snorlax and Aegislash that can better take it on. The addition of Primarina to the metagame makes it even worse. It was definitely very strong for a long time where people leaned on Hydreigon, Dragapult, Mimikyu, Rotom-H, Togekiss that Cloyster can kinda feed on, but its a lot harder to pull off the face to face style of Dragapult, Mimikyu, Cloyster in the current meta.

Primarina B+ -> A-: In my playtesting, I think this pokemon is a big threat, especially offensively it hits like a truck and has the bulk to back it up, making it less of a dead weight infront of Snorlax for example than Lapras. The Fairy typing is super useful for threatening Rotom formes and checking Dragapult and Hydreigon. Its usage I think just backs up how good it is. It essentially combines the bulk of Lapras (arguably being better defensively other than Veil) but with more offensive pressure.

Rotom-W A -> A+: I think now that Snorlax is in S, I think it is time to balance some of the tiers a bit more. I think the best place to start is putting the 7th best pokemon in the game, Rotom-Wash into A+. Rotom-W checks a lot of key threats in the metagame such as Corviknight, Gyarados, Lapras, and Togekiss as well as its fellow Rotom-H whilst having the flexibility to 1v1 the likes of Excadrill with Dynamax. Has a great versatility in sets, from defensive to scarf/specs trick to cripple tanks such as Snorlax/Ferrothorn, to WoW, has pivot ability. It is a staple on high ladder and is even the 7th most used pokemon in BSPL after Excadrill. I'd also argue that Rotom-W is part of the best goodstuffs comp in the game currently (Mimi, Draga, Snorlax, Excadrill, Togekiss, Rotom-W).

Incineroar B- -> B: I'm tempted to go out on a limb and put Incineroar into B. It essentially does what it does every single meta in which it pivots in with its intimidate ability and great defensive typing (for special attackers) and pivots back out into a strong attacker with u-turn. Id argue it is a less momentum sapping version of Type Null since it just has a lot more tools at its disposal and is less liable to get substituted and set up on. One particular combination I have seen a bit on streams is Incineroar + Darmanitan and uturn chaining.
 

marilli

twinsies
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the defending Battle Spot Circuit Champion
Rhyperior: A- -> B+

I've always been a bit skeptical of this thing, but one thing is clear: TR can be strong when utilized properly, but there's a reason why it is not meta. Its linear gameplay works against it in the bring goodstuffs and dynamax what works best to counter ur opponent meta. Its ability to beat Snorlax offensively is very cool, but it's not the only thing capable of doing so.


Ditto: B+ -> B / B-

The meta is more bulky with things like Dynamax Lapras and Snorlax. Ditto isn't a get out of Dynamax jail for free card anymore. It doesnt see use anymore, and its just kind of bad.

Charizard: B -> B- / C

It SUCKS

Quagsire: B -> B-

It's fine but there's a lot of special attackers that really shit on Quagsire at the moment - Unaware Clefable is really nice too and feels like the more generally viable Pokemon.

Grimmsnarl: B+ -> B

Generally worse than the higher power level of B+ right now that includes Clefable / Primarina. Grimmsnarl also suffers from how the meta is right now which includes improved ways to stall out turns cuz of Dynamax and that happens to really affect Grimmsnarl as well. Grimm seems more like a one-trick pony that's more in like with Dracovish and Whimsicott.


I am generally fine with unbalanced tier size as long as it's accurate. I tried to not include grievances that already got voted for just now. You could drop some things out from C and drop some B- like Arcanine into it, but honestly I really don't care too much one way or another.
 

1_TrickPhony

BSS Circuit Co-host
is a Tutor
So, in preparation for the mini low tier slate that should be coming out soon ™, here are a few of my nominations.

Additions to C:
1. Reuniculus: UR --> C. With Clefable now becoming the Unaware abuser of choice on stall teams, Reuniculus has risen to the role of Magic Guard status absorber. Reuniculus, like Clefable, has the ability to either run Life Orb offensive sets, Acid Armor or Calm Mind defensive sets, or Flame Orb/Choice Specs Trick crippling sets, but does not fear volatile statuses like unaware Clefable does. Rare stall pokemon that can beat opponents in a variety of unique builds. Revelant Team: https://sunset9696.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-3.html

2. Frosmoth: UR --> C. The special Avalugg. Without Fire or Physical Coverage, this thing is impossible to kill. Unlike Avalugg, it can outright sweep in the right conditions, but also has a crippling weakness to Stealth Rock. Stall has performed far better these past few seasons, and with Frosmoth being a big reason why, it should also go to C. Relevant Team: http://ikamirim.hatenadiary.jp/entry/2020/05/03/222054

3. Alolan Ninetales : UR -- > C or B-: Perhaps the most effective Screens Hyper Offense lead right now (yes I am saying this with Grimmsnarl currently in B+). Has great coverage in Ice/Fairy, and while it can die pretty easily, it rarely dies without successfully getting up Veil and hitting with one of its powerful dual STABs. Relevant Team: https://shar965.hatenablog.com/entry/2020/04/02/104946

4. Mandibuzz: UR --> C: One of the few available consistent non-Mimi checks to Dragapult, while also having the ability to toxic or taunt passive mons while also pivoting with U-turn. In cases outside of checking Dragapult or providing toxic support, it is strictly worse than Corviknight, but these two relevant niches make it deserving of C rank. Relevant Team: https://toranekopoke.hatenablog.com/entry/2020/05/01/115617

Cut from C rankings
1. Rotom-Fan: C --> UR: You only have 1 slot for a Rotom. Why use the worst one? There are just better NP sweepers, with better move coverage.
2. Goodra: C --> UR: Being absolute Mimi/Phys Dragapult food is not good qualities of a niche mon. Its good against the basic elemental types, but really hates playing against DFS cores of all kinds. It also doesnt have the skillset to be an effective dynamax pokemon, due to poor physical bulk and slow speed/no speed boosting moves.
3. Butterfree: C --> UR: Dragapult can kill Sash versions in one hit with darts, and Ferro laughs at this thing, two trends that this thing hates. This is NOT vivilon, and that mon struggled to get out of C rank for the longest time in a much more friendly metagame to it.
4. Lanturn: C --> UR: No use in any significant teams in the last 2 seasons, low enough damage output, and it is just too mediocre despite having rare access to volt switch and volt absorb.
5. Sandaconda: C --> UR: Hippowdon is just so much better right now, access to phazing and better bulk is more important than a Glare niche right now. No non-meme reason to use it atm.
6. Kommo-O: C —> UR Clefable >10%, Togekiss > 35%, Mimikyu ~50%, Primarina > 10%. How in the world is Kommo-O supposed to do anything in this current meta?

Already was voted on last slate, but thought I'd include my support for this mon to rise further
Incineroar: B- --> B. This Pokemon has usage similar to Pokemon seen in the A- region, and is a huge beneficiary of being a premier Fire pivot in FWG cores. While the lack of knock off and weakness to special Water attacks does hold it back a slight bit, it works really really well with a ton of Pokemon surging in usage atm (Lapras, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W most notably).
 
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marilli

twinsies
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the defending Battle Spot Circuit Champion
VR Update Proposal:

I propose that we tweak the VR as a whole. Not speaking as a VR council but as an individual. I have convinced certain other individuals enough so I am posting this to get it over with.

To me, it seems very clear to me that A- and B+ are closer together in power level than A- and A, This is partly the big reason why Pokemon inbetween A- and B+ had really close votes on a lot of things like Clefable / Primarina, too. It's which is counterproductive to letter grade viability tiers. Tiers having the same letter grade should be on roughly comparable tier - which isn't the case because there truly are like, 16-17 Pokemon that stand out far above the rest. Also, how is Seismitoad / Dracovish / Whimsicott / Quagsire so unique to the point that they get their own tier?


Here is a Sample VR Inside: https://pokepast.es/59580c1ca7da9bf4
S
Mimikyu
Dragapult
Snorlax
Togekiss
Excadrill

A+
Rotom-Wash
Corviknight

A
Darmanitan-Galar
Ferrothorn
Gyarados
Hippowdon
Lapras
Rotom-Heat

A-
Aegislash
Tyranitar

B+
Clefable
Diggersby
Dracozolt
Primarina
Sylveon
Toxapex
Hydreigon

B:
Cinderace
Cloyster
Conkeldurr
Durant
Gastrodon
Grimmsnarl
Rhyperior
Rotom-Mow


B-:
Dracovish
Haxorus
Incineroar
Quagsire
Seismitoad
Type: Null
Whimsicott

C:
Charizard
Ditto
Umbreon
Hawlucha
Milotic
Duraludon
Toxtricity (Amped)
Corsola-Galar
Cutoff for C+ somewhere around here.
Inteleon
Arcanine
Rotom-Fan
Ninetales-A
Mamoswine
Obstagoon
Chandelure
Reuniclus
Frosmoth
Mandibuzz
Avalugg
Bisharp
Butterfree
Crawdaunt
Doublade
Eiscue
Glalie
Goodra
Hatterene
Kommo-o
Lanturn
Rillaboom
Sandaconda
Torkoal
Venusaur
Vaporeon


Obviously some details can be cleaned up - maybe you think Clefable / Primarina or Dracozolt really belongs on the same level as Aegislash and only slightly below the metagame staples like Rotom and Hippowdon, and yeah sure, feel free to vote that in. If you think you should drop Sylveon an extra tier - sure! But anyways I think adjusting the A/A- tier is the more important I think pretty big shifts have happened as a ripple effect of some new releases, but mainly around metagame developing and people rapidly coming to solve a lot of the meta.

As a side effect it evens out the tiers a little - but that wasn't really the main intention.


Changelog:

Togekiss A+ -> S

Togekiss passes the usage test and the eye test. Its only downside, "reliant on dynamax" has been under scrutiny - and advent of sets like Trick Scarf that is good without Dynamax has really gotten rid of the final problem with Togekiss. Easy S rank, and is a cleaner solution than trying to drop Excadrill to A+ Rotom-Wash A -> A+ Rotom-W has cemented itself as a top Pokemon even among the top elite. Nasty Plot is nasty, and the drop in Water-Grounds in their unability to defend vs Lapras, in favor of Snorlax, have definitely helped it thrive. It is also the one real way for most teams to check Corviknight, and this was always the thing with Rotom-H, too. But with that single problem with being completely walled by some Pokemon removed from the general metagame, it is significantly ahead of its companions in A, but not good enough to join S.



Tyranitar A -> A-

Tyranitar is still good, but requiring the Dynamax to realize their true potential has turned out to be a harsher penalty than first thought. With competition from Lapras as the WP / AV combo, it definitely sees less usage than everything else in A. I am nomming these to push for a paradigm change described above.


Dracozolt, Toxapex, Hydreigon A -> B+ (changing tier benchmarks) I don't think these Pokemon have gotten significantly worse - it's just that none of these Pokemon were really that close to other metagame titans in A. Pokemon inbetween A- and B+ had really close votes on a lot of things like Clefable / Primarina, too. It's very clear to me that A- and B+ are closer together in power level than A- and A, which is counterproductive to letter grade viability tiers. Thus, I am dropping all of these Pokemon, and the close votes in A-/B+ to a single B+ tier, and dropping things in a ripple effect. While I nominate these Pokemon in all, I also see a potential Tyranitar / Aegislash / Hydreigon or just Aegislash / Hydreigon A- with Tyranitar still in A. All these are options under this new shifts.

Cloyster, Rhyperior A- -> B+ -> B I think these two Pokemon are significantly worse than when we ranked them. Focus Sash Cloyster has suffered from the metagame tendency towards bulk, with things like Snorlax, Ferrothorn, and Lapras increasing in usage significantly. Rhyperior is also another Pokemon I am ranking down on the basis of it mandating dynamax, WP, AND Trick Room mimikyu investment. No other Pokemon in current B+ requires that level of commitment to using a single Pokemon to make it work. For these reason, these 2 Pokemon have an extra grade drop.

Cinderace, Conkeldurr, Durant, Gastrodon, Grimmsnarl Rotom-M B+ -> B (extension of changing tier benchmarks) This is the ripple effect of making Dracozolt / Toxapex / Hydreigon B+ instead of A-. I will explain why these Pokemon aren't good enough to keep their current rank. Cinderace has lost its new toy syndrome and its usage is rapidly dropping. We only begrudgingly kept it B+ because of its usage, so I don't see the reason why we need to keep it B+. Conkeldurr is also on similar boat that was borderline B+/B on a close vote. With increased power level of B+, it makes sense to keep it B - its weakness to 3/5 of the big 5 makes it hard to rise any further in practice. Durant and Grimmsnarl dropping reflect increased knowledge of playing around Dynamax. It is a pretty big investment to be relying on a single Dynamax and hogging it from other members. Grimmsnarl often relied on dedicated maxers, and is penalized for metagame trends for moves like Protect and Yawn to stall Dynamax, which also happens to stall out screens on top of that. Lapras punishing the Water-Grounds out of the meta have decreased Rotom-C's niche by a lot. It also crowds out other Rotom formes, but this flaw always existed. Rotom-C drops not due to the fact that we didn't realize how good Rotom-W/H was, but because of their key metagame niche disappearing.

Dracovish, Seismitoad, Quagsire, Whimsicott B -> B- (Tier Paradigm shift) With the previous B rank being so barren, it makes sense to drop these 4 Pokemon and combine them with the stronger B- Pokemon, and delete the weaker B- that havent seen any form of continued, consistent success. Those 4 Pokemon weren't particularly strong or weak or so unique in their power level. This ranking change reflects that. These Pokemon have all been hit quite hard with metagame shifts relating to Lapras in one way or another. Not only are the Lapras checks generally also strong Swift Swim Seismitoad checks, Lapras itself also freeze drying Seismitoad also sucks hard. Water-Grounds have in general lost a lot of metagame value, and Quag also sees competition from Clefable with Unaware - this time Clefable has the better defensive typing, which makes Quagsire worse off. Whimsicott suffers from most Dragapult defaulting to Infiltrator to handle Lapras, and also the rise of Ferrothorn to check it. Dracovish, however flawed, will never drop below B- for its unique position in the metagame that has not gotten worse with metagame shifts. In fact, it benefits from the decrease in Water-immune Water/Ground Pokemon.


Ditto B+ -> C , Charizard B -> C

Both of these Pokemon suck.

Haxorus, Type-Null, Incineroar : KEEPS its B-

For the current shifts, this may as well be a raise. Haxorus has some cool things going for it, in doing well vs a lot of the top metagame big 6 threats after boosting or with Choice Scarf, and has seen some uptick in usage. It will keep its B- unless it proves to be a short-term pattern. Type null also provides a very specific support, but its speed control and slow volt switch is a very enabling support kit, and I don't think it'll be dropping to C for this reason alone. Incineroar: An effective 1 tier rise for a deeply flawed Pokemon. I've tried using it, and I'm not impressed. Best case scenario is trading it for a Dynamax, but it restricts your options in Team Preview - if you want to pair it with something synergetic like Ferrothorn defensively, you have all your eggs in one basket. If you don't, then it's a hope they trade their Dynamax on the obvious throwout of Incineroar. If they set up on that switch out turn your back breaks and there's no way to come back. Its main draw is having the fire-type without being forced to use Rotom-H. Not impressed, but the niche exists. I'm pretty sure it's not a secret that Japanese are onto and we are left unaware - if it weren't then why didn't the ponies bring it in finals? Yeah, cuz it's bad.

Everything else in B-: Drops to C. Corsola, Arcanine, etc. are all pretty bad. Significantly badder than Incineroar. We can definitely make a C+ for these Pokemon if we so desire, and I do agree these Pokemon are pretty better than stuff like Goodra, so there being a tier difference seems fair. I do think it's pretty pointless cutting Pokemon from C btw, but I don't care too much one way or another. I just don't see a point of just putting something 1 guy used, then failed to get continued success, and just dropping and raising Pokemon as they drop in and out of the leaderboard by happenstance. I added Vaporeon in C btw but I'm sure most people won't even realize - that's pretty much how pointless C is.

IMO do this tweak first, and the good thing is we can vote on the B/B- at the same time, cleaning up the "lowtiers"

ciao
 
Hey marilli, Im not going to quote your entire post because it is quite long but it was an interesting post and I agree with quite a lot of it but I think I have a bit of a different perspective to you. I'm only going to talk about the main point you go over which is the minimal difference between A- and B+ which I am not sure whether I actually am in agreement with you on. I do agree generally that there are some pokemon in B+ that deserve to be A- and vice versa, however I have quite a different tier list to yourself. I've popped it down below:

https://pokepast.es/7fa3c8dc38328e89

I haven't ranked pokemon in B+ other than to show what I would drop into B+ and what I would raise up to A- otherwise pokemon like Incineroar would be in B+ and Gastrodon and Ditto would be gone.

To me, there is quite a big gap between A- and B+ other than potentially Diggersby within that tier in terms of how good I think they are. This may be right or wrong but I kind of rank pokemon based on their versatility, how strong they are at dynamaxing or countering dynamax as well as how team reliant they are and their usage at top level. A question I'd pose to help better define the barrier would be to look at goodstuffs, the best composition in SWSH and ask: could you easily slot this pokemon in a goodstuffs comp?

My answer for every A- pokemon would be a near instant yes, whereas I'd be pondering for a while on practically every single one of the B+ pokemon. This I think is the big thing that differentiates the tiers and makes these pokemon significantly more niche than their compatriots in A-.

I would agree that the A-/B+ barrier isn't as big as the drop between A and A-, but using that as the A-/B+ barrier would mean that there are only 14 pokemon in S -> A- which would really constrict the metagame so I'd keep it similar as it is but perhaps juggle it in a similar way to how I mention above.
 
To me, there is quite a big gap between A- and B+ other than potentially Diggersby within that tier in terms of how good I think they are. This may be right or wrong but I kind of rank pokemon based on their versatility, how strong they are at dynamaxing or countering dynamax as well as how team reliant they are and their usage at top level. A question I'd pose to help better define the barrier would be to look at goodstuffs, the best composition in SWSH and ask: could you easily slot this pokemon in a goodstuffs comp?
I think the reasoning behind that metric is pretty sound. In particular, versatility seems to be meta-defining right now. We're several months in and pokemon like Snorlax, Mimikyu and Togekiss have still seen recent developments in their build options. The ability to run multiple roles or at least threaten to can cause a lot of confusion at team select.
 

marilli

twinsies
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the defending Battle Spot Circuit Champion
I figured that would indeed be the alternative proposal if not radically changing up the tier list. Honestly this isn't such a quite a different tier list. Diggersby and Sylveon could likely drop down to B on my list, and was seriously considering dropping Sylveon and Diggersby. So I'd be OK with that take. And that would make my B+ equivalent to your A-, basically.

I wanted to make a more big-picture observation than arguing specific placements of Pokemon. I hope that this updated proposal would suit you better: https://pokepast.es/1b9aa1a86e910017

>To me, there is quite a big gap between A- and B+ other than potentially Diggersby within that tier in terms of how good I think they are. This may be right or wrong but I kind of rank pokemon based on their versatility, how strong they are at dynamaxing or countering dynamax as well as how team reliant they are and their usage at top level. A question I'd pose to help better define the barrier would be to look at goodstuffs, the best composition in SWSH and ask: could you easily slot this pokemon in a goodstuffs comp?

yeah this honestly is the same standards i'm using, except I'm not putting as much weight onto usage. It's only a sample usage not true usage, which means that it is wildly variable. Incineroar clearly does not belong on the same tier as Aegislash, as an example that would be universally agreed upon. But then I think we've reached the conclusion to "agree to disagree" on how much I'm not caring about usage. And I do agree there's a gap there between B+ and A-, I was not saying that there is no distinguishing factor there - just not a gap as big as A to A-. If I found that there were no gap at all I would have just removed the tier and adjusted accordingly - kind of how what I did with the current B tier where I genuinely found no gap in comparison to other Pokemon.

> there are only 14 pokemon in S -> A- which would really constrict the metagame

Yeah but the metagame really IS constricted and those 15 Pokemon really stand head and shoulders above their peers. I think there's a significant gap between "I can potentially SLOT into goodstuffs" and "i AM goodstuffs"

This change would turn S/A/B into more well defined tiers. S are the Pokemon that basically define the metagame right now and seen on every other team, A are the other goodstuffs Pokemon. B would be niche situational Pokemon, where B+ are the Pokemon that slot into standard teams the easiest, B you really want a lot of team support OR the Pokemon is flawed to the point that you find it difficult to, B- are the super super situational Pokemon where you basically know you want it or not from very early on in selecting your team.

And I think this was another suggestion Psynergy had to improve my initial list that I forgot to address, is that we don't need to do A+/A/A- and always divide up to 3 subtiers. To solve this problem, 2 subtiers may work even better - but it's obviously a radical departure that this my initial suggestion was what I ended up agreeing to writing up my post on. But I was obviously a fan of this because indeed if you point out hey Clefable shouldn't even be in the same letter tier as Type null if you want letter grade to be roughly comparable! Then well I'd tend to agree with you. Then the S/A/B/C distinction would even be clearer. S is meta defining, A are the other goodstuffs Pokemon, B are Pokemon that are flawed but manage to find ways onto teams, C Pokemon kind of suck are kind of unique and you won't die for using it. D are just Pokemon I would not go "WTF?" upon seeing them in preview. Something like Chandelure is generally threatening and if I see a good player using it, I'm going to respect it - REGARDLESS of how well it's finished on top teams in the most recent 2 seasons, which is why I find the continuous adding and dropping of Pokemon onto bottom tiers pretty superfluous. .

It would turn the tiers into something like this: https://pokepast.es/b27850972ad5a576

Anyways I do see we are in agreement with both Kiss and Rotom-W, which is nice to see. I did see an "Excadrill drop down to A+" vote and I thought about it a little bit and figured this was a conclusion that made far more sense, and I thought these 2 shifts needed to take priority over low tier housekeeping

and apologies for not listing all the other potential VR charts, but from the votes there seemed to be quite a divide on people who definitely wanted to keep Clefable / Primarina at B+ and drop other Pokemon, and there were some people who wanted to raise Clefable / Primarina onto A-, which resulted in the pretty clear split voting. I think once the consensus is reached on exactly how the A-/B+ tier divisions need to happen, this will give us time to vote on low tiers in a very nice transition.
 
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marilli I can agree with this general definition, it was more me just worrying about the potential size of the lower tiers. If you were to add a D tier, I could see things being a lot more balanced and therefore being able to have at least roughly similar numbers of pokemon in other tiers. That is something I guess the VR Council can discuss internally.

When I talk about usage, I generally mean the amount of times it is seen on top Nouthuca blogs, on high ranking streams, not just the usage statistics that is compiled by Pokesol or in previous generations Boe though that is one factor. There is definitely an extent to which there are flavour of the month picks, such as teams made based on a top blog team on a previous season, but in the longer run I believe usage correlates to viability. There's generally a reason that a pokemon is used or not used at the top level and asking those questions can better determine viability.

Take Diggersby as an example of a rising star in the Japanese scene. It doesn't get its usage just based on random things, this is where game knowledge, practice and theorycrafting comes into play. How does it interact with goodstuffs? I actually think Diggersby is pretty good, it definitely deserves its B+ rank even if you were to change the tiering the way you say and has a lot larger viability than you are giving it credit for. Diggersby is an excellent offensive breaker and a great dynamaxer that is notable for being able to trade with the likes of Togekiss and threaten most defensive cores with its very high attack and great movepool. One thing that has really started to be taken into consideration, firstly with Aegislash but also with other pokemon is not only how good they are in Dynamax but how good they are when Dynamax isn't on the table. This is incidentally why Tyranitars usage started going down. Diggersby is both good in and out of Dynamax. One particular advantage it has is that Normal typing means it cannot be revenge killed by shadow sneak and Diggersby has its own priority to deal with other sash users. Therefore Diggersby is one of the few pokemon that can consistently beat most Aegislash, Mimikyu and Excadrill in the 1v1 without Dynamax up on the offensive side. There are only two good walls to Diggersby IMO on Goodstuffs, Corviknight and Hippowdon. That is why it is used. Tier lists should of course be opinion based, but I do think usage is a valuable tool to determine viability.

On the tier list structure itself, if you were to do it that way with two tiers per letter grade, although I am but a layman, I'd probably do something similar to the tierlist I've mentioned below:

S
Mimikyu, Dragapult, Snorlax, Togekiss, Excadrill

A+
Rotom-W, Corviknight

A-
Darm-Galar, Ferrothorn, Gyarados, Hippowdon, Lapras, Rotom-H, Aegislash


I think these pokemon are what defines goodstuffs. For the most part, good in and out of dynamax, super versatile/utility, high 1v1 ability able to be brought in the vast majority of games and circumstances, the meta revolves around beating these pokemon and pokemon below this line have usage based on their matchup spread versus these pokemon above. If they do not tick every single single box here, they go above and beyond in an aspect which makes up for that. What differentiates S from A+ from A- is how much the pokemon warps the metagame in terms of how much it is useful/needed on team compositions or how much of a threat it is offensively/defensively.

B+
Tyranitar, Diggersby, Clefable, Primarina, Toxapex, Hydreigon, Dracozolt

These pokemon are not goodstuffs but have the best matchup spread vs. the S -> A- ranks but have slight utility limitations, competition or matchup problems that prevent them from being A-. These are also the easiest pokemon to slot onto said teams and need minimal team support. However, the opportunity cost of using these pokemon is generally minimal and they are able to be brought in the vast majority of matchups if played correctly.

B-
Sylveon, Cinderace, Conkeldurr, Durant, Grimmsnarl, Rhyperior, Rotom-Mow, Incineroar, Gastrodon

These pokemon are not goodstuffs but have a relatively good matchup spread vs. the S -> A- ranks and can slot onto the right team. However, there are clear flaws in matchup spread, competition or utility that prevent them from being B+. These pokemon can be difficult to slot on teams due to having smaller roles or being team reliant and therefore there is often an opportunity cost of bringing these pokemon to a battle. However they can shine within the right team composition.

C+
Cloyster, Dracovish, Duraludon, Haxorus, Quagsire, Seismitoad, Type: Null, Whimsicott

These pokemon generally do not slot very well onto Goodstuffs teams and need specific support in order to function well. The payoff for using these pokemon in the right circumstances is good, but it is not as good as those in the B- tier. They can be strong within their specific niche and work properly provided they are built around or in a non-goodstuffs team composition.

C-
Charizard, Ditto, Umbreon, Hawlucha, Milotic, Toxtricity (Amped), Corsola-Galar

C+ except even more niche pokemon with either extremely high competition, hard to teambuild with or have crippling flaws or less reward. Their niche is notable but limited.

D
Everything else that is noteworthy but doesn't have that notable of a niche

I think these definitions should do well.

S -> A = Goodstuffs,
B Most viable non-goodstuffs mons can easily slot into goodstuffs
C specific mons used in non-goodstuffs comps or have very small niches
D Everything else (Id honestly get rid of some of the stuff at the bottom or you can split D tier)

S -> C should contain around the top 40 pokemon in the metagame.

Durant is probably the only thing in B that I would raise my eyebrows if I saw it in a goodstuffs team composition, but its upside is so good that it deserves still to be in B. Everything in C I'd start raising my eyebrows though I would know at least C+ pokemon definitely still can work well in gen 8.

Hope that explains things.
 
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What does everyone think of Braviary? It was featured in 3 teams in S4 and 6 teams in S5 from Nouthuca's blog collection and has a fair amount of usage according to pokesol.
 
What does everyone think of Braviary? It was featured in 3 teams in S4 and 6 teams in S5 from Nouthuca's blog collection and has a fair amount of usage according to pokesol.
My personal opinion is that it is not bad. It has the great normal flying defensive typing, which is funny to say but since Ghost is the best offensive type in BSS, normal pokemon become more valuable and its also a decent dynamaxer that can bulk up and then max airstream and has normal fighting coverage. It definitely has some weaknesses that prevent it from being truly excellent such as struggling with Rotom and Corviknight, but I think its decent enough.
 
What does everyone think of Braviary? It was featured in 3 teams in S4 and 6 teams in S5 from Nouthuca's blog collection and has a fair amount of usage according to pokesol.
I think its current uptick in usage is simply because it is the newest fad that people want to test out. I would say it is C tier in the old system and C- tier in the proposed new system.

Braviary really wants to Dynamax, which makes its Normal typing great since you can't get revenge killed by Shadow Sneak. It matches up well vs. Mimikyu and physical Dragapult and has enough speed to outspeed Dragapult at +1. However its movepool is not great and your last move usually ends up being either Giga Impact or Shadow Claw. Shadow Claw is mainly so you don't get walled by Aegislash. It pretty much only runs the Lum + Bulk Up set, which makes it easier to game plan for, but it definitely can be a threat. Its struggles vs. certain popular Pokemon, which Ika Ika Musume pointed out above does make it tough to bring to many matches though.
 
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