Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
I think my exact reaction on considering this was somewhere along the lines of "arglearglefuuuuck". Now it's aged into a drier, more mature "ah fuck it". I still hold that they WOULD cover things together, in the sense that a Pokemon can sometimes check something once, but not twice... damn. Back to the drawing board! That Talonflame calc is depressing. MDiancie is just... the opposite of what minmaxing should be. (MBeedrill's distribution on Diancie's BST... *drools*)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 83-98 (34.4 - 40.6%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 108-128 (44.8 - 53.1%)
Total: 79.2-93.7% so when SR is up this becomes pretty shaky but yeah.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 83-98 (34.4 - 40.6%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 108-128 (44.8 - 53.1%)
Total: 79.2-93.7% so when SR is up this becomes pretty shaky but yeah.
I also though of this; it might end up being better to tag a normal Diancie in instead of its Mega Form, since it's bulkier but can still threat Talonflame with its 4X Diamond Storm.
But at that point you're better off using something like Tyranitar, Rotom-W or Rhyperior, since they do more than just stop Talonflame and (lol) set Trick Room. Regular Diancie just isn't good and can't do much of anything to the things that would force out or kill Serperior.
i think latios switching in on serperior after it kills something is a very obvious telegraph that it's a choice scarf set considering latios is slower than serp...
considering i already said it meant a scarf latios, this is just redundant. and about ice beam, if bulky waters comonly run it, it wouldn't be an "unexpected" ice beam, right?
and all it was just summing the advantages of AV, at least in paper, since we must see hos the snake fares competitively at least for two or three months to get a precise idea
I think my exact reaction on considering this was somewhere along the lines of "arglearglefuuuuck". Now it's aged into a drier, more mature "ah fuck it". I still hold that they WOULD cover things together, in the sense that a Pokemon can sometimes check something once, but not twice... damn. Back to the drawing board! That Talonflame calc is depressing. MDiancie is just... the opposite of what minmaxing should be. (MBeedrill's distribution on Diancie's BST... *drools*)
In that case, I'm looking for a Pokemon that reliably checks or counters some of the following, since they're all a pain for Serperior. :( Magnezone helps with steel types usually, occasionally talonflame, clefable, and... eh :| Psychic coverage would take out a few of these as well, but most of the decent psychic users are afraid of a brave bird to the face, and of course steel types...
-Talonflame especially (and Char Y to a lesser extent)
-Heatran (I'm personally running HP Ground, but that's not enough plus Sp.Def Heatran doesn't care anyway - I think this is why I thought of AV Guts Conkeldurr, but... No. Bad idea.)
-MAltaria
-Unaware Clefable
-the usual Steel fare; Ferro, Scizor, Skarm, MMetagross now too I suppose, but it doesn't appreciate boosted coverage moves of either type
-bulky grass/poison types; MVenusaur, Amoongus, Dragalge, Celebi
-I guess things to take the hits that the >113 base speed guys are going to be throwing out for revenge kills; mostly megas, but also Starmie's LO Ice Beams. Not that a whole lot can switch into MLopunny! But still. Also, scarfers (Jirachi) + SE priority (Mamo, Weavile, MPinsir).
>:| I feel like there's very little that I can add to a Serperior-friendly team that hasn't already been mentioned and doesn't compound another of Serperior's flaws. Scizor and Magnezone WOULD be cool if they weren't afraid of Talonflame and Heatran - even fast Superpower Sciz can't get past that. Sp.Def Talonflame would make a nice partner if it didn't also have a cold stop in Heatran. And I'd really not rely on a double trapping core (which this is rapidly becoming) since at that point there are better things you could be using with a double trap than Serperior. I can always just accept the weaknesses and just overcompensate for them - I'm probably looking at this the wrong way around, I should build a team and if it has a use for Serperior, in it goes. But :(
Personally I would use a lure like Mixed Mega Altaria with Earthquake to bop Heatran. Then on Serperior run HP Fire to handle the other steel types. You can then run either Heatran or Jirachi to handle the remaining threats.
I personally like Mega Scizor and Mega Manectric with Serp. It really likes Volt Switch and U-turn support, and Scizor in particular lures in a lot of Pokemon that Serp can set up on (Rotom-W, Keldeo, Hippo, Lando-T, etc.), making its life much easier.
Serperior would honestly be far worse in Doubles due to the fast-paced Metagame making set-up nigh impossible if your name isn't Mega Salamence and it being harder in general to get Talonflame and whatnot off the field. Not to mention it has no spread moves whatsoever.
I personally like Mega Scizor and Mega Manectric with Serp. It really likes Volt Switch and U-turn support, and Scizor in particular lures in a lot of Pokemon that Serp can set up on (Rotom-W, Keldeo, Hippo, Lando-T, etc.), making its life much easier.
If Serperior were a physical attacker, it could see some use in double thanks to intimdate. Unfortunately, the only benefit its ability gives it right now is getting faster from icy wind (which chips it bad) getting to fire off maybe two leaf storms.
It has a pretty fast taunt though. That's cool. Can't hurt to try it.
I've been lurking for about 3 months now and wanted to try getting more into battling.
I have a team that features this Serperior set and its has worked well for me, but I'm totally willing to alter it with any advice you guys might have.
Its a bulky support set that forms part of a FWG core with Taunt Heatran and Mega Gyarados. I find that Leech Seed and Substitute combined with Serperior above average bulk make it quite hard to break through. People expect an all out offensive set with Leaf Storm and they never expect Sub and Leech Seed together.
Not sure on the maths for solid targets, however, Serperior has a shallow yet still powerful movepool that may show him some promise now that Greninja is gone.
Serperior @assault vest
Ability : Contrary
EVs: 252HP / 6SpAtk / 252Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Giga Drain
- Signal Beam/Hidden Power Ground
Coverage would fully depend on teammates and role on said team, but with just one +2 boost, he could tear a hole through most switch-ins. I can definitely see him rising to at least B-, maybe even B.
Which I am forever thankful for, since inevitably it would cause discussion along the lines of "dae Signal Beam is viable" and it's just not :| Still leaves you walled by absolutely all of the things Serperior hates. HP Ground/Fire is far...
...
dammit...
...
far serperior? >:|
Anyway without getting too much into theorymon, if Serp was to get any useful and somewhat realistic moves, it's got to be Earth Power. Fire+Ground coverage, but alas Earth Power grass types are annoyingly rare. But this isn't helpful discussion.
Has anyone found the meta trending against serperior lately? Now that it's been out for a while and most people (I hope) would know not to sac a Pokemon lest Serp get another +2 and to scout for Hidden Power coverage, and I've wondered how that'll affect it's viability. Particulary versus stall, since Offense will always have Talonflame to RK whereas Stall hates Serperior in general. Any new counters or anything :?
I run Serperior and i see venutran cores all the time, which i didnt do before its release but maybe the increase of those cores is due to greninjas ban or i didnt notice damn because i didnt ran serperior.
Having finally gotten to test serp, I am sorry to say that it is complete trash. Unaware Quagsire is not even 9 hit KOd by hidden power electric, serp's strongest coverage move, and ignores any coil boosts snakey could've gotten. On top of that, sap sipper girafarig, AKA OU's #1 tyrannitar counter, can skill swap away serp's overgrow. Without overgrow, serperior is utterly useless, since overgrow is its main niche over sunflora. Speaking of sunflora, mega audino laughs at serp and OHKOs with tackle. Don't believe me? Look at this calc: 0+ Atk Audino Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Serperior: 1309-1542 (10069.2 - 11861.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO. And that's physically defensive serp, which isn't nearly as good as spdef. All in all, this 'mon should be removed from the viability ranking ASAP. 7.8/10 it's not awful.
Having finally gotten to test serp, I am sorry to say that it is complete trash. Unaware Quagsire is not even 9 hit KOd by hidden power electric, serp's strongest coverage move, and ignores any coil boosts snakey could've gotten. On top of that, sap sipper girafarig, AKA OU's #1 tyrannitar counter, can skill swap away serp's overgrow. Without overgrow, serperior is utterly useless, since overgrow is its main niche over sunflora. Speaking of sunflora, mega audino laughs at serp and OHKOs with tackle. Don't believe me? Look at this calc: 0+ Atk Audino Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Serperior: 1309-1542 (10069.2 - 11861.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO. And that's physically defensive serp, which isn't nearly as good as spdef. All in all, this 'mon should be removed from the viability ranking ASAP. 7.8/10 it's not awful.
Having finally gotten to test serp, I am sorry to say that it is complete trash. Unaware Quagsire is not even 9 hit KOd by hidden power electric, serp's strongest coverage move, and ignores any coil boosts snakey could've gotten. On top of that, sap sipper girafarig, AKA OU's #1 tyrannitar counter, can skill swap away serp's overgrow. Without overgrow, serperior is utterly useless, since overgrow is its main niche over sunflora. Speaking of sunflora, mega audino laughs at serp and OHKOs with tackle. Don't believe me? Look at this calc: 0+ Atk Audino Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Serperior: 1309-1542 (10069.2 - 11861.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO. And that's physically defensive serp, which isn't nearly as good as spdef. All in all, this 'mon should be removed from the viability ranking ASAP. 7.8/10 it's not awful.
That's exactly serp's problem: all its best moves have really common immunities. Perhaps most alarmingly, despite the fact that it is hit super effectively by light screen, the almighty seviper gets a clean 6 hit KO with choice band sludge bomb. Being so weak to an S rank mon is frankly unacceptable.
