That would just make the banlist unnecessarily big. I understand your point about the few mons being a little less horrible, but I don’t think we should adjust our banlist by banning horrible abilities from being shared just to make Pokemon like Slaking, Regigigas, etc a tiny bit less bad than they are now.Why are truant/slow start/defeatist shareable? If they become unshareable the metà will not change At all and pokemon like slaking/regigigas/archeops wouldn't
Really become threats, but I think using the share clause with those Abilities could make those mons a Little more viable, surely not metachanging but they could have a niche.
Sorry, that was due to a typo in my fix to the previous bug (Contrary not working against Intimidate on turn 1). Will be fixed on the next update.Turn 9 My Scrafty's Moxie activated TWICE.
Blaziken is definitely a topic of interest. However, there are a few additional things to note here. In a metagame where offense dominates, Speed Boost is going to inherently be great. Even though Blaziken itself cannot pass its ability, receiving Magic Guard with Sheer Force and/or Adaptability is probably too much. At least Darkrai has no way to boost its Speed outside of Z-Hypnosis, making it easier to revenge kill. While Multiscale limits its ability to OHKO as many threats at it woud like to, it may mean an unhealthy amount of teams would have to run it just to stand a better chance against Blaziken.![]()
Another thing that I believe would be interesting to talk about is Blaziken. I understand that Blaziken has sooo much to gain from this tier, with abilities like Reckless and Magic Guard making Flare Blitz, HJK and Brave Bird super nice, or Multiscale allowing for extra Speed Boosts, as well as so much more, but I think it may be manageable.
First of all Speed Boost is unsharable, so that's a thing. Next of all Dragonite is literally the bane of Blaziken's existence, resisting both its STABs and giving the entire team Multiscale. The other S-Rank mon in Clefable is also everywhere and gives Blaziken a hard time resisting its Fighting STAB and boasting Unaware to deny SD sweeps. In fact there are quite a lot of viable pokemon in this meta that resist Blaziken's dual STAB combination, such as Victini, Blacephalon, Latios, Pre Mega Gyarados, Toxapex, Mantine, Alowak, Mega Latias, Mega Zard-Y, and even Bruxish. Add in the viability of Heatran providing Flash Fire and the number of pokemon capable of taking on Blaziken is doubled. I understand that building around Blaziken to deck it out with 6 awesome abilities has the potential to be extremely powerful, but between Blaziken's low bulk, need to stall a turn for Speed Boost, and the meta's natural preparation for it, it strikes me as a more healthy unban option than Darkrai.
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A lot of people have called for a full ban on Mold Breaker, but I do not agree with this. I think Mega Gyarados is more of the problem since it can simply run through offensive and defensive teams alike thanks to Dragon Dance setup.
The only thing that DESTROYS the argument of No Guard is simple: Are there any good No Guard supporters in the tier? Nope. I will talk about his later.
Sorry, i totally forgot about that ass commentary i posted here :p. What i meant to say is that if Darkrai needs support from almost inviable mons like M-Pidgeot or Machamp, which takes a slot of your team, leaving no room for more useful mons, for putting its ability on work, I feel it can be decently balanced. But then I saw that it can hugely benefit from another popular offensive abilities like Sheer Force, which can make its unban an issue.Nice to know I'm not the only one who's complaining about M-Gyara here, as fun as it is to use it's an absolutely ridiculous mon with practically 0 counters depending on it's team support. Not sure if M-Gyara or Simple is the problem though, and both may need to be suspected tbh.
No offense but that's a piss-poor argument. Are there any good Simple supporters in the tier? Nope. Does that stop it from being an incredibly popular and powerful ability in the tier? Nope. And it's not difficult to argue that Mega-Pidgeot and Machamp are at least better mon's on their own than Swoobat and Bibarel.
A better argument against the effectiveness of Darkrai is that Bad Dreams doesn't effect teams with Magic Guard, and Poison Heal teams can't be put to sleep. It definitely struggles here compared to standard but No Guard having bad donor's isn't it's primary concern.
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Simple
Ok this might be broke. I run a Simple team with it and the only thing that really kills it is Electric moves. Unless you're running Motor Drive/Volt Absorb/Lightning Rod. Then this is unstoppable. Even if it's burned or paralyzed. I run Water Veil to avoid burns though.![]()
Mega Gyarados
Nuh-uh. Nope. Don't. Bad Dreams is blocked by Magic Guard but some teams don't run it. If this is unbanned, there will be mons running Vital Spirit, Insomnia or Electric Surge/Electric Terrain (There is also Early Bird and Misty Terrain, but I don't think they are viable in this meta., prove me wrong). 2 of those three are competitively unviable. So this would force peopleto run certain abilities and that calls for an unhealthy metagame.![]()
A Darkrai unban.
This doesn't sound too bad. Even if you are against it, think about it in the stance of the players.Why are truant/slow start/defeatist shareable? If they become unshareable the metà will not change At all and pokemon like slaking/regigigas/archeops wouldn't
Really become threats, but I think using the share clause with those Abilities could make those mons a Little more viable, surely not metachanging but they could have a niche.
Yeah, don't. Not sure if you remember SP Ubers, but Speed Boost was unbanned for a while and proved way too broken unless the opponent ran it too. If we unbanned Blaziken, I understand it would not pass Speed Boost, but the benefits it gains when it is out. To name a few:![]()
Another thing that I believe would be interesting to talk about is Blaziken.
*defiant intensifies*Ok ok, here me out, Simple shouldn't be banned. Why? Because not only do boosts double, but drops double too.
Can you combine it with Filter, and Solid Rock (the same effect abilities), for multiple effects? A 4X Super Effective Move becomes 1.6875 or 168.75%, Throw in Multi-scale, Unaware and Misty Surge, and you could technically heal more than you take on these defensive mammoths’ switches.I'm on mobile right now so this probably isn't going to be my bear post, but I wanna show everyone one mon I've found to be pretty cool with enough support.
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Necrozma! This Pokémon is pretty interesting imo. It has an interesting ability in Prism Armor that guards itself and allies from Super Effective moves as well as some decent setup moves and coverage. What makes it really unique, however, is Photon Geyser. This move is dumb. It's decently powerful as well as being a mixup between being either physical or special. Most importantly, it ignores abilities. I run a Physical Rock Polish set with Simple + Beast Boost giving it a Swords Dance every time it gets a KO. A setup sweeper that ignores Multiscale and Unaware? Yeah, it gets pretty dumb. Like here: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-206869
Necrozma was able to easily sweep through here. Though it requires lots of support, I think it's definitely a threat once it sets up/gets a KO.
Edit: Here's the team I run.
http://pokepast.es/a29f3ca14801906f
I agree completely with this, and is thus why my earlier comments about Necrozma was me telling on how it should be at least somewhere on the VR. a handy setup i love to use is Necrozma with Harvest and Unburden and Simple, alongside a Starf Berry. If you aren't OHKO'd, your Starf Berry will activate giving you a 3x in whichever stat it chooses, and since Photon Geyser takes account stat changes, it will change to Physical if Starf lets it be 3x. then comes the Stored Power. Photon Geyser only has around 8 PP, so getting Stored Power makes a use out of your stats. the only thing that I've noticed that takes it out is Mega Gyarados.I'm on mobile right now so this probably isn't going to be my bear post, but I wanna show everyone one mon I've found to be pretty cool with enough support.
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Necrozma! This Pokémon is pretty interesting imo. It has an interesting ability in Prism Armor that guards itself and allies from Super Effective moves as well as some decent setup moves and coverage. What makes it really unique, however, is Photon Geyser. This move is dumb. It's decently powerful as well as being a mixup between being either physical or special. Most importantly, it ignores abilities. I run a Physical Rock Polish set with Simple + Beast Boost giving it a Swords Dance every time it gets a KO. A setup sweeper that ignores Multiscale and Unaware? Yeah, it gets pretty dumb. Like here: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-206869
Necrozma was able to easily sweep through here. Though it requires lots of support, I think it's definitely a threat once it sets up/gets a KO.
Edit: Here's the team I run.
http://pokepast.es/a29f3ca14801906f
Ok ok, here me out, Simple shouldn't be banned. Why? Because not only do boosts double, but drops double too. So you have stuff like Sticky Web (if anyone is running that) and Intimidate that make it worse than it should be. There is also the givers of the ability. Bibarel and Swoobat is very hard to set up if it doesn't have Focus Sash and that's broken through with Stealth Rocks.
Ok this might be broke. I run a Simple team with it and the only thing that really kills it is Electric moves. Unless you're running Motor Drive/Volt Absorb/Lightning Rod. Then this is unstoppable. Even if it's burned or paralyzed. I run Water Veil to avoid burns though.
Anyways, I wouldn't be surprised if this is banned, but if it is look at Kyurem-Black. It's technically the same thing but Special and Contrary.
Nuh-uh. Nope. Don't. Bad Dreams is blocked by Magic Guard but some teams don't run it. If this is unbanned, there will be mons running Vital Spirit, Insomnia or Electric Surge/Electric Terrain (There is also Early Bird and Misty Terrain, but I don't think they are viable in this meta., prove me wrong). 2 of those three are competitively unviable. So this would force peopleto run certain abilities and that calls for an unhealthy metagame.
This doesn't sound too bad. Even if you are against it, think about it in the stance of the players.
Yeah, don't. Not sure if you remember SP Ubers, but Speed Boost was unbanned for a while and proved way too broken unless the opponent ran it too. If we unbanned Blaziken, I understand it would not pass Speed Boost, but the benefits it gains when it is out. To name a few:
Magic Guard - No SR damage here, so Sturdy/Focus Sash is a go. Also no crash damage from HJK.
Sheer Force - LO + extra damage on some STAB?
Dazzling/Queenly Majesty - So forget Pixilate Espeed
Simple - double Speed Boosts every turn. Three turns = Max Speed. That's how long you have to kill it.
Beast Boost/Moxie - Simple and this? or even on it's own? Everything dies to one hit.
So there is more probably, but it's like allowing Steadfast Fissure Machamp in the game. (Of course with a No Guard support. That's the whole point)
wow this was a long post. P.S. You should mention that we cannot be OMotM for Jan, if people haven't realized, but we are available for Feb.
I agree completely with this, and is thus why my earlier comments about Necrozma was me telling on how it should be at least somewhere on the VR. a handy setup i love to use is Necrozma with Harvest and Unburden and Simple, alongside a Starf Berry. If you aren't OHKO'd, your Starf Berry will activate giving you a 3x in whichever stat it chooses, and since Photon Geyser takes account stat changes, it will change to Physical if Starf lets it be 3x. then comes the Stored Power. Photon Geyser only has around 8 PP, so getting Stored Power makes a use out of your stats. the only thing that I've noticed that takes it out is Mega Gyarados.
Can you combine it with Filter, and Solid Rock (the same effect abilities), for multiple effects? A 4X Super Effective Move becomes 1.6875 or 168.75%, Throw in Multi-scale, Unaware and Misty Surge, and you could technically heal more than you take on these defensive mammoths’ switches.
Can’t wait until Custap Berry is released for Harvest and Drought shenanigans.
Rhyperior, Aggron (Mega), Necromoza, Dragonite, Clefable, Tapu Fini.
Prevent Poison Heal, Guts, Marvel Scale, Flare Boost, Toxic Boost, Quick Feet in enemy lines, and by the way, Protect your team from Status. Misty Terrain is a good Ability, and it removes Psychic and Electric Surge which stops foe strategies.
Can we make a BH of this? That would be an immensely satisfying metagame.
Im a player that`s really active in Other Metas
I made a team and tested it
Opinions?
Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Leaf Storm
- Synthesis
- Dragon Pulse
Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Zen Headbutt
- Stored Power
Barbaracle @ Rockium Z
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Liquidation
- Superpower
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Low Kick
Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Dragon Tail
Volcanion @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Overheat
- Superpower
- Sludge Wave
- Steam Eruption
This team idea is simple .Abuse Contrary,Adaptibility,Tough Claws and Victory Star
http://pokepast.es/761a82504ae72208
Im using Tough Claws to gave more power to V Create,also the team works pretty wellSeems like a solid team. Might I suggest something with Magic Guard over Barbaracle? It means your Volcanion and Victini won't take Stealth Rock damage and can use a Life Orb without recoil. Adaptability already provides enough of a boost. I'd also personally use Porygon-Z as an Adaptability donor, even though you don't have Draco Meteor boosting Dragalge is too slow to really sweep itself.
Some bugs in this battle:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-207223
After mega evolving Heracross's ability should be Skill Link - however it still gave me the Moxie boosts. Also, several abilities activated twice. Beast Boost, Defiant and I think Competetive at one point triggered twice for some reason.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-207248 after changesIm using Tough Claws to gave more power to V Create,also the team works pretty well
Here`s a replay against FunBot28
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-207139
[/SPOILER]Lot to unpack here lol. Bibarel and Swoobat are bad, but so what? They each get access to a boosting move and even considering their horrible stats, are capable of dealing some damage before they kick the bucket thanks to the formers priority access and the latter's decent speed tier. Intimidate/Sticky Web end up benefiting a lot of Simple teams too, since they're very often running Contrary/Defiant. I'm not ready to say Simple should or shouldn't be banned but those arguments don't hold a lot of weight in practice.
Kyu-B and M-Gyara aren't super comparable. Kyu-B requires Contrary to set-up, M-Gyara doesn't NEED anything, it's just made better by Simple/Weak Armor/Defiant/Adaptability/Insert Literally Any Offensive Ability in the Game Here etc. Kyu-B also has no way to boost speed, but is capable of boosting while attacking, which M-Gyara doesn't have. On the flipside, Kyu-B has the advantage of holding an item, but I don't think that matters. What makes Gyara broken (IMO) is it's access to a built in speed boosting move and fantastic neutral STAB coverage.
There are tonnes of ways to deal with sleep in this meta and none of them require running bad abilities like Insomnia/Early Bird. Magic Guard, Poison Heal, Electric Terrain and Prankster + Sub are all fairly popular already, and while Magic Guard doesn't prevent sleep, the rest of them are hard-stop's to Bad Dreams. Honestly Simple + Nasty Plot is a much scarier thought IMO. The argument that it forces you to run certain mons doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, almost nothing in this meta has a hard counter on every team. The existence of Simple, Contrary and other boosting abilities pretty much necessitates the use of Unaware/some kind of counter to boosting and yet you also said Simple shouldn't be banned so idk.
The meta doesn't really gain anything from banning SS/Truant/Defeatist from being shared. It's an unnecessary complication to add to the ruleset and those mons aren't going to be very good even if that was implemented. Not much harm would be done, but what's the point? If you're willing to sacrifice a team slot for Regigigas/Slaking when teamslots/abilities in this meta are worth more than the mon itself sometimes, you might as well just throw the game in the first place lol
I don't think Blaziken would be too bad. Victini's V-Create hits harder and currently provides a +2 Speed boost per turn with Contrary + Simple, making it just as effective as Speed Boost itself. If we're living with that I don't see why we can't live with Blaziken.
Don’t take any bait, the best response is a short one, explaining yourself comes off as submissive. Maybe just a swift: My bottom line point is ____.[/SPOILER=What W0rm said]
[/SPOILER]
ok wow I got some attention
So I won't fight you on Simple because you are right, and that some more serious people may have to fight on ban/not ban.
So I apologize to mention my stance on that was, if I could, abstain.
I understand they aren't super comparable, Kyu-B and Mega Gyara, but their abilities and the chance to set-up-and-sweep seems like the same. Just one attacks specially and the other physically. I bet that if Simple is banned that M-Gyara will fall in viability. I mean I guess if Prankster + sub works and Galvanize Boomburst/Hyper Voice isn't a thing. Fantastical neutral STAB coverage?
View attachment 95166
huh
So I guess you make a compelling argument for Darkrai, and I completely agree. I will say though, for the record, that I generally think it's a bad idea to unban him. But everything you said makes sense, so I won't fight you here.
Ok ok why attack me like this? It was a suggestion. Sorta like, "hey if you could do this, great, if nah, then forgettaboutit".
Well, Blaziken, I would think has better STAB. It can practically hit anything neutrally. He's a Fire-Type Mega-Gyarados. Let's say though that I get unheard, also unban Mega-Blaziken. I mean, it's the same thing, no?
A key ability you forget to mention here is the recently unbanned Magic Bounce, which blocks Darkrai from being able to put the target to sleep entirely. Also, Magic Guard is already on most teams so the metagame is already inherently unkind to the idea of accurate free Dark Void. The problem with Darkrai isn’t Bad Dreams or even Dark Void at all, but rather it’s the amazing Speed tier coupled with the coverage and Nasty Plot.Nuh-uh. Nope. Don't. Bad Dreams is blocked by Magic Guard but some teams don't run it. If this is unbanned, there will be mons running Vital Spirit, Insomnia or Electric Surge/Electric Terrain (There is also Early Bird and Misty Terrain, but I don't think they are viable in this meta., prove me wrong). 2 of those three are competitively unviable. So this would force peopleto run certain abilities and that calls for an unhealthy metagame.
I don’t see the buzz behind Necrozma at all. It’s a pretty cool mon but is hurt by its typing, lack of offensive pressure and lackluster Speed stat. Prism Armor isn’t a very great ability, and just takes up a slot that could be used on Unaware or Regenerator as far as defensive abilities go. I’d have to see some replays where Necrozma was the contributing factor to a victory, but I just don’t see it right now.Necrozma is the most irritating mon I've faced in Shared Power tbh. It has fantastic synergy with multiscale teams, simple teams... pretty much every team comp I've seen. If it wasn't for the fact that Prism Armor just isn't as spammable as Multiscale/Magic Guard I'd say it could be S-Rank but I would definitely say somewhere in the A ranks. The fact that it's not on the VR at all right now makes absolutely 0 sense.