Metagame Shared Power [Under Re-Construction!]

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torkoal.gif


Torkoal @ Focus Sash
Ability: Drought
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Stealth Rock

houndoom-mega.gif


Houndoom-Mega @ Houndoominite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- Substitute

porygon-z.gif


Porygon-Z @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Dark Pulse
- Trick
- Agility

nidoking.gif


Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

espeon.gif


Espeon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Signal Beam
- Trick

tapu_lele.gif


Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball

Possible options:

You can try Hidden Power Fire on Porygon-Z over Agility (Agility is there for after you Trick the Scarf away), on Espeon over Signal Beam or on Lele over Shadow Ball or Psyshock. Focus Blast is also an option on Lele.

Houndoom's Substitute helps against mons that use Protect and has the best overall utility. Houndoom can use Protect itself to just get off the Mega Evo and switch out (to give your team the Solar Power) or to scout what the opponent wants to do but don't really switch into things with this team. The situational Sucker Punch (because of the Psychic Terrain you rarely click it) is an option. Taunt is a very situational option as well since you have Magic Bounce (mostly to prevent a setup from a Sash mon).

You can make Torkoal min Speed as an anti-Trick Room mon but I prefer to outspeed Doublade. Against Trick Room Houndoom usually just one shots everything when Trick Room is up.

You can use Scarf Blacephalon over Porygon-Z or Nidoking. If you use it over Nidoking you should put Flame Charge on Houndoom over Taunt / Sucker Punch / Protect.

Notes:

No Pokemon takes a Sun + Solar Power + Sheer Force + Adaptability + STAB boosted Fire Blast without Flash Fire. Even Flamethrower clean 2HKOes Chansey. Scarf Espeon has an amazing Speed tier and Sheer Force + Adaptabitity + Psychic Terrain + STAB Psychic revenge kills almost anything. Nidoking + Houndoom are your wallbreakers and then you have 3 Scarfers and a Sash mon. Pretty straightforward.

A big weakness is that to get the Solar Power as soon as possible you become more predictable early game. You might think Heliolisk might be an option then but note that Mega Houndoom straight up OHKOes almost all Pokemon bulky or not. Its wallbreaking power is necessary against bulky teams.

It is a very fun team to play though.
 
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I'd like to hop in and clear something up. We're chilling with bans for a good time now. The purpose of the last week was to stabilize the meta because there was just too much broken shit running around. Abilities like Magic Guard and Multiscale were obviously broken, and now that just about everything is out of the way, we can actually settle in a metagame that's in a playable state. I just wanted to get everything undoubtedly broken out of the way before making any more decisions. I personally want to leave things untouched for at least a week or maybe even until the end of the month. Once we all get a mutual feeling that things are looking good, here are some discussion points for the future.
  • possible Regenerator unban
  • possible Landorus unban
  • possible Magic Bounce ban
  • possible Magic Guard unban
You're free to discuss this now, but just know that the metagame will likely be left untouched for at least one week until we finally allow things to adapt to each other. According to the council, no ability really seems insane right now, so this is a good point for us to be in. Landorus is something that especially interests me and I'll be talking about it soon. That's it for now. Cheers!
 
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Haaku. said:
I'd like to hop in and clear something up. We're chilling with bans for a good time now. The purpose of the last week was to stabilize the meta because there was just too much broken shit running around. Abilities like Magic Guard and Multiscale were obviously broken, and now that just about everything is out of the way, we can actually settle in a metagame that's in a playable state. I just wanted to get everything undoubtedly broken out of the way before making any more decisions. I personally want to leave things untouched for at least a week or maybe even until the end of the month. Once we all get a mutual feeling that things are looking good, here are some discussion points for the future.
  • possible Regenerator unban
  • possible Landorus unban
  • possible Magic Bounce ban
  • possible Magic Guard unban
You're free to discuss this now, but just know that the metagame will likely be left untouched for at least one week until we finally allow things to adapt to each other. According to the council, no ability really seems insane right now, so this is a good point for us to be in. Landorus is something that especially interests me and I'll be talking about it soon. That's it for now. Cheers!
Click to expand...

Regenerator without Multiscale is definitely fine, I think it is not even debatably broken.

Lando unban would be fine. It would make Sheer Force more usable and Sheer Force is not more broken than all the other power up abilities around.

About Magic Bounce and Magic Guard the most important differences are that Magic Bounce does not allow Webs while Magic Guard protects you from weather and recoil (so it protects the Sash better). Another idea would be to look at unbanning both Magic Guard and Magic Bounce but banning Focus Sash. Without Focus Sash both of these abilities are not nearly as useful (especially Magic Guard).
 
I guess an item clause would be the best for this meta. One sash, i.e. on a suicide lead like Excadrill, is perfectly fine, as is one scarf, and it would be a nerf to poison abuse/stall teams, as only one mon would be able to use a toxic orb/leftovers.
 
I disagree. Without sturdy and multiscale, the meta will be a OHKO fest if sash is banned/limited. I think sturdy ban was rushed, and i agree that regenerator wasnt necessary

I have been thinking about shared power ubers. Does it exist alredy? I think it can be an interesting meta
 
hiei-q said:
I disagree. Without sturdy and multiscale, the meta will be a OHKO fest if sash is banned/limited. I think sturdy ban was rushed, and i agree that regenerator wasnt necessary

I have been thinking about shared power ubers. Does it exist alredy? I think it can be an interesting meta
Click to expand...
I believe the ROM server has it as an unnoficial meta. I'm not sure what the bans on that are, tho.
 
Semako said:
I guess an item clause would be the best for this meta. One sash, i.e. on a suicide lead like Excadrill, is perfectly fine, as is one scarf, and it would be a nerf to poison abuse/stall teams, as only one mon would be able to use a toxic orb/leftovers.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be very limiting to HO teams that want to use Guts, PH, and Toxic Boost? You'd only have one mon that could take advantage of that despite building a team around every mon wanting to have a similar playstyle. I don't like the PH stall teams that tend to force endless battles, but I don't think this is the best way to go about solving this (if we even need to now that Sturdy, Multiscale, and Regenerator are banned).
 
Jrsmash9 said:
First of all building for stall took lots of skill, and playing also did when you had to make doubles. I would have preferred for the meta to settle for once instead of going on a BANwagon (get it?) Honestly regenerator had no reason to be banned, but I dont really care anymore. Stall v stall is still endless but its a terrible playstyle now along with balance. HO will dominate, and the meta will just fall apart from here and focus sash will be the exact same as sturdy.
Click to expand...

The voting here on Smogon showed more people were wanting to ban Regenerator rather than keep it in the meta. I myself voted to keep Regenerator (DNB) until I ran into four consecutive PHeal Regenerator teams, and I'm now quite happy at this result.

Focus Sash also isn't the same as Sturdy, as Focus Sash is an item, thus removing the ability to run Sheer Force Life Orb, Magic Guard mons (not to share, but because they're simply good on their own ala Alakazam), Choice Scarf to beat out certain faster mons, etc etc etc. Sturdy was irritating because it kept the item slot while also being on Skarmory, who on its own is an incredible mon for teams.


Haaku. said:
I'd like to hop in and clear something up. We're chilling with bans for a good time now. The purpose of the last week was to stabilize the meta because there was just too much broken shit running around. Abilities like Magic Guard and Multiscale were obviously broken, and now that just about everything is out of the way, we can actually settle in a metagame that's in a playable state. I just wanted to get everything undoubtedly broken out of the way before making any more decisions. I personally want to leave things untouched for at least a week or maybe even until the end of the month. Once we all get a mutual feeling that things are looking good, here are some discussion points for the future.
  • possible Regenerator unban
  • possible Landorus unban
  • possible Magic Bounce ban
  • possible Magic Guard unban
You're free to discuss this now, but just know that the metagame will likely be left untouched for at least one week until we finally allow things to adapt to each other. According to the council, no ability really seems insane right now, so this is a good point for us to be in. Landorus is something that especially interests me and I'll be talking about it soon. That's it for now. Cheers!
Click to expand...

This one post alone proves to me you care, and that makes me even more happy :]]]]

Regen unban I'd say, keep it for now, Especially if we unban any other abilities, ala Magic Guard (which makes Burn/Rocks/Spikes/Weather chip nonexistent against teams).

Landorus-I iunno about, I dont know how useful it'd be or how broken/not broken itd be. People who play this meta and dont shitpost with Conkeldurr could answer that. Speaking of Conk, I feel he's a bit better of a Sheer Force donor, with an awesome Assault Vest set, the ability to also go the Guts route forcing teams to be wary of trying to burn everyone, and a better bulk stat. not that lando-i's Life Orb Sheer Force set gets invalidated by this, I just fucking love conkelderp.

Magic Bounce... I dont know? With Multiscale and Sturdy gone, the main reason I saw to use Magic Bounce (preventing hazards from breaking those 2 abilities) is gone. Removing Gastro Acid is kinda annoying, as well as still reflecting hazards, but it feels more alright.

Magic Guard Unban sounds kinda fun. Makes Burn on Guts Conk feel less like I'm gonna die every time I see a SubTect Gliscor.


I'd do the thumbs up emote but I'm lazy and at school so
:blobthumbsup:
nevermind found it :D
 
i feel serene grace being shared is uncompetitive. pretty sure other people do too, but since the main focus of discussion was about m. guard, bounce I feel like serene grace was just forgotten about. I would say limit serene grace because flinching is just toxic.

since the focus is on m.guard and m.bounce i should probably talk about them.
i enjoy m. guard being unshareable because otherwise it preserves multiscale and sash and sturdy too easily. Magic bounce i have no problems being free because i run moldy rockers. excadrill or pinsir. i see that i am limited in this regard so i suppose M.Bounce could become unshareable for this reason. makes sense.
 
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Being a big fan of Sturdy on offensive teams, I made a fake sturdy team this morning based on a Steelix with Sheer Force and all 6 mons having sashes. The team was mostly intended for laughs, but it was actually strong enough to send one of my accounts to 1700+ with only one or two losses. The new bans make defensive teams almost non-existent and unless they run solid multi-hit teams or an Excadrill lead, most offensive teams are easily countered with 6 sashes. In a meta where offensive mons are meant to be strong enough to hit through massively defensive teams, it's often the better item to run. I can post examples of ways to run the fake sturdy strat if anyone's interested.
 
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Yo, pretty sure Sub + Prankster is supposed to be banned, but I ran into this mess just now: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-706557145

I decided to slug through the whole battle rather than quit right away, but you get the idea as to how annoying this team is, especially with Harvest and the high HP recovery berries. Either way, if the update to stop Sub + Prankster was made, there either seems to be an issue with the code (it is not working) or there are exploits other than Mega-Bannette.
 
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PrincessGardevoir said:
The voting here on Smogon showed more people were wanting to ban Regenerator rather than keep it in the meta.
Click to expand...
Polls can't really be taken seriously as a source for decisions for a metagame, because differently than suspect tests, there's no need to prove that you have any understanding of the meta, anyone can vote.

Edit: I'm not sure about it, but maybe we could do Suspects that require something in your username, like SPST1 [your name here].
 
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SamHPL said:
Polls can't really be taken seriously as a source for decisions for a metagame, because differently than suspect tests, there's no need to prove that you have any understanding of the meta, anyone can vote.
Click to expand...

I don't think we can do a suspect test, as some people have previously pointed out:
that ivy guy said:
Not sure if a formal suspect test is possible; OMOTM isn't allowed a suspect ladder. Could just be done on the normal ladder I suppose.
Click to expand...

Obviously a suspect test is better than a poll, but, if the option isn't available, then a poll is better than just leaving it to the heads of the meta to figure out.
 
fouyo4 said:
Yo, pretty sure Sub + Prankster is supposed to be banned, but I ran into this mess just now: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-706557145

I decided to slug through the whole battle rather than quit right away, but you get the idea as to how annoying this team is, especially with Harvest and the high HP recovery berries. Either way, if the update to stop Sub + Prankster was made, there either seems to be an issue with the code (it is not working) or there are exploits other than Mega-Bannette.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure M-Bannette was banned because it could get around the Sub +Prankster ban, so I was shocked to see the strategy return this morning. Definitely needs to be looked into. For now, it still gets very little usage, but it was a pretty strong strategy with Bannette and it could be even better without it.
 
fouyo4 said:
Yo, pretty sure Sub + Prankster is supposed to be banned, but I ran into this mess just now: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-706557145

I decided to slug through the whole battle rather than quit right away, but you get the idea as to how annoying this team is, especially with Harvest and the high HP recovery berries. Either way, if the update to stop Sub + Prankster was made, there either seems to be an issue with the code (it is not working) or there are exploits other than Mega-Bannette.
Click to expand...


Um they unbanned the combo again without warning.
So prankster sub is still an option even tho my boi banette made a sacrifice.

(I loved using Banette with destiny bond so I was upset when he was banned but now that his sacrifice meant nutting......

**guttural scream of anguish**)
 
Oublié said:
Being a big fan of Sturdy on offensive teams, I made a fake sturdy team this morning based on a Steelix with Sheer Force and all 6 mons having sashes. The team was mostly intended for laughs, but it was actually strong enough to send one of my accounts to 1700+ with only one or two losses. The new bans make defensive teams almost non-existent and unless they run solid multi-hit teams or an Excadrill lead, most offensive teams are easily countered with 6 sashes. In a meta where offensive mons are meant to be strong enough to hit through massively defensive teams, it's often the better item to run. I can post examples of ways to run the fake sturdy strat if anyone's interested.
Click to expand...
I am interested, please explain.
 
FYI the erasure of the Substitute++Prankster ban was a mistake, as it was first changed to Substitute only, then this most recent patch accidentally killed that Sub-only ban to add Banettite, when in practice the Sub++Prank will remain enforced in tandem with the Banettite ban (what a wild ride it's been). It'll be fixed soon.
 
that ivy guy said:
FYI the erasure of the Substitute++Prankster ban was a mistake, as it was first changed to Substitute only, then this most recent patch accidentally killed that Sub-only ban to add Banettite, when in practice the Sub++Prank will remain enforced in tandem with the Banettite ban (what a wild ride it's been). It'll be fixed soon.
Click to expand...
Thank goodness, I don't want to deal with another Sub Prankster team ever again.
 
PokaPK said:
I am interested, please explain.
Click to expand...

Basically, to make 6 sashes work, you need to keep rocks and priority at bay, so I start with a Lele-Espeon core, which is pretty strong by itself. I run both with slightly less SpA investment to pair them with a Beast Boost mon and get speed boosts as I go. I like Blacephalon as a sash mon, for fire coverage against steel and because it gets to taunt Mold Breaker leads if they don't have Magic Bounce. Steelix is mostly for the fake Sturdy joke, but it tanks multi-hits, can get rocks up and offers Sheer Force, which is nice because it powers up most special hits and ignores Unaware. Magearna is another option, to give our special attackers a double boost in exchange for lower base power. I try to avoid using 6 mons on the special side, though. For the rest, Adaptability is great to make our core 1-hit-ko most of the meta under Psychic Terrain, so I generally run Porygon-Z, mostly because of its access to Agility and nice coverage. The last slot is best kept for a utility ability, such as Infiltrator, Unnerve, Unaware or Shield Dust, based on what gives you trouble. Unaware is mostly for Calm Mind Clefable ans such special walls, because the sashes take care of boosted attackers, Infiltrator-Unnerve for berry teams and Shield Dust for flinches, Zap Cannon para or other unfortunate status.
 
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