• Follow our Instagram!
  • Curious about what we're currently doing about bots? Check out the latest updates from staff in this thread.

Shoddy vs Smogon?

Twilight :)

Okay, so here's the deal. I use Smogon's tier list to preform BL battles. Yes, I know, "technically" BL is not an actual tier that anyone cares about. But, there is still the option to battle with Pokemon categorized as Borderline...you all know that. Anyway, I get crap from people rarely. People complaining about the fact that I use Smogon's list, and not AA's. They claim that is balances BL and since this is Shoddy Battle I should be using a Shoddy list.

Which list should I use?
 
I always use the Smogon one. :)

It's up to you really, and if people have an issue, it's probably 'cause you just pwn't 'em 6-0 ;)
 
Hm. Dark`, I use the Smogon BL list. When I ask people, they always say: "Check the Smogon List". It really depends. If you battle Smogoners, they won't mind. However, if you battle people who don't really go to Smogon, then they will complain.
 
Akatsuki said:
Hm. Dark`, I use the Smogon BL list. When I ask people, they always say: "Check the Smogon List". It really depends. If you battle Smogoners, they won't mind. However, if you battle people who don't really go to Smogon, then they will complain.
Click to expand...

Most people do infact use Smogon's list, I know. My question is should I be using a a list provided by Shoddy when using Shoddy?
 
You should ask the person you're battling beforehand because different people have different preferences.

On a side note, you're as old as I am. = )
 
Akatsuki said:
You should ask the person you're battling beforehand because different people have different preferences.

On a side note, you're as old as I am. = )
Click to expand...

I, for one, do not care which list I battle just as long as they're debated BL Pokemon. I mean, don't come in a battle with Garchomp and be like "lulz it should be bl k." I do expect the same. With Marriland, Smogon, AA's List, and more out there, not everyone will be following the same list. So, I expect my opponent not to cry about it if I'm not using the same list as them. Therefore, what is the BEST list to use? I'm leaning towards Smogon, but you never know.

Mkay to your side note.
 
Smogon is most likely the better list because it is simply "the" authority on Pokémon and most of the research done on D/P was conducted here.
 
At the start of the battle just state that you use Smogon's tier list and ask them if that is a problem for them ...
 
Personally I wouldn't be using the smogon tier list anymore because I don't think it's been updated for a while and the metagame has changed a bit since the beginning of DP.

I recall it listing stuff like jolteon as BL which it certainly isn't. The shoddy list is more recent and as far as I've seen is pretty accurate.

Then again I'm not a fan of strict BL battles solely for the reason that it's not always easy to distinguish BL from OU and people start to complain. I mean the only difference is usage. When I play, I see a lot of scizors being used so to me, scizor seems pretty OU and it's weird to see it in BL. It becomes pretty subjective when it comes to what people view as BL or not.

If you ask me, if the only different between OU and BL is usage, then there's no reason those who use BL teams don't just go up against OU instead of complaining that the other team isn't strictly BL as well. If BL is just as strong as OU then it should have no problem taking them on.
 
I use Regice and Flygon in "BL" on Shoddy, and no one minds.

They did freak out when I had Magnezone though... is he OU?
 
Thank god this isn't a poll. Shoddy's probably wider known although I may be wrong. I'd use the Smogon one though.
 
skiddle said:
I use Regice and Flygon in "BL" on Shoddy, and no one minds.

They did freak out when I had Magnezone though... is he OU?
Click to expand...

Yes... very lol

Hmm, well if they start bitching in the main chat, balls to them lol, they'll probably just get people flaming them anyway... Milotic is DEFINATLY Bl...
 
Twilight :) said:
No, it's not even that. I used a Milotic in a BL battle and the guy stormed out and started bitching in the main chat. =/
Click to expand...
Well that's not quite as bad as my OU battle, in which I used Tyrannitar, and my opponent immediately cries "No legendaries!", and starts trying to make the argument that Tar is a legendary and an Uber, then he quits and starts bitching in the chat as well. I guess his team was Tar-weak :/
 
Well, we'll always advise and encourage you to use any of the information we provide here on Smogon. That's obviously the main purpose of the website. However, as much as we call ourselves the "authority" on various things relating to competitive battling, we do not run a Shoddy Battle server at this time. Because of this, I'd advise you to use whatever listing the majority is using on the server. If the majority is using our tiers, then I'd stick with ours. If the majority is using another listing that you agree with for the most part, then I don't see a reason why you shouldn't use that list instead. Our tier listings are our suggestions, not law. And really, in the end you just want to have a competitive battle so stick with what makes it easiest for you to do so.
 
skiddle said:
I use Regice and Flygon in "BL" on Shoddy, and no one minds.

They did freak out when I had Magnezone though... is he OU?
Click to expand...

Regice was OU last gen but has become BL now. It's just as powerful but it's less useful due to stealth rock and bad form of recovery. Hence less used. Flygon has always been BL in the shadow of salamence as a physical sweeper last gen and again with garchomp this gen after salamence became mostly special. So no complaints there.

Magnezone is more ambiguous. It's not overly used like gyarados, gengar, garchomp etc...but it's certainly strong. I've seen quite a few of them emerging now so it may be making a position for itself in OU.

LickThePaint said:
Milotic is DEFINATLY Bl...
Click to expand...

You can never be that certain about the BL tier because it's based solely on usage. I've seen a lot of teams with milotic in them and its use is increasing. I've seen a lot more of them than something like suicune such that I would probably say milotic is OU and suicune is BL. But I can't make that claim because that's only what I've been seeing.

To be sure I would need to monitor the usage of pokemon in every battle to determine how much it is used exactly. Then decide whether it fits in BL or OU. Shoddy has the means to do this whereas smogon can only tally how popular a pokemon is through RMTs. Which is why I think the shoddy list is more reliable right now.
 
Forsety said:
I'd say neither list because the idea of a BL game is stupid.

It is literally standard with another name.
Click to expand...


It's standard without blissey garchomp salamence skarmory or whatnot on each team. I actually enjoy it more than OU, shame not too many people play it.

As for the topic, I think if it's on either list, it should be okay. Is it really going to matter that much if they use a borderline OU/BL? And do the match results really matter? No.
 
Carl said:
Well, we'll always advise and encourage you to use any of the information we provide here on Smogon. That's obviously the main purpose of the website. However, as much as we call ourselves the "authority" on various things relating to competitive battling, we do not run a Shoddy Battle server at this time. Because of this, I'd advise you to use whatever listing the majority is using on the server. If the majority is using our tiers, then I'd stick with ours. If the majority is using another listing that you agree with for the most part, then I don't see a reason why you shouldn't use that list instead. Our tier listings are our suggestions, not law. And really, in the end you just want to have a competitive battle so stick with what makes it easiest for you to do so.
Click to expand...
qft
Most people use the Smogon list. If your opponent wants to complain, then give them the link to Smogon's tier list for proof and say they have the option to leave and be an immature crybaby, or finish the match and whoever wins wins. For example, Tentacruel is still officially considered UU, but to my knowledge, the tier lists aren't being revised just because Shoddy came out with a usage list that's suddenly gospel. It should be the same with Milotic. Besides, there's Wi-Fi, which has completely different figures that will never be known, since it's not insta-Poke Shoddy.
 
Make two teams- One for Shoddy list, one for Smogon list.
If someone bitches, say "Fine, I'll use a BL team by shoddy's list."

Or, say before matches, "BL (smogon list)- challenge me :D"
 
More or less, AA is in charge of the "Shoddy lists" IIRC (and that is in quotes because... well... see here). The Usage charts have nothing to do with Shoddy's lists, in fact Colin doesn't endorse any Shoddy list that I know of.

I say AA is "in charge" of the Shoddy lists mostly because he was the first one to start attempting a tier list. Do remember, Smogon's tier list is one of the newest ones. Only OU pokemon were on it till maybe late September or early October. UU and BL pokemon are still under debate, and even at this point OU pokemon may change.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top