Should Wobuffet be allowed back in?

[chewy]

With the advent of an even more offensive metagame and the new item Beautiful Skin, Wobuffet's power to annoy has been severely neutered. Wobby still has the same seven moves to choose from:
splash (lol)
counter
encore
charm
mirror coat
safeguard
destiny bond

In addition, Shadow Tag has been modified so that Wobby vs. Wobby causes Shadow Tag to be negated (you can switch out!)

With the huge amount of CBer's, AG'ers and I feel that he/she/it is in no way overpowered or annoying as it once was and can serve as counters for certain pokes while being countered by others. It would probably have the defenses to take out one poke, but probably not two pokes.

Ex.
against an AG Alakazam and Wobuffet switches in:

Wobby switches in.
Kazam used Psychic!

next turn.
Kazam used Psychic!
Wobby used Mirror Coat!

Kazam fainted!

====================

Or it can be used as an avenger (a la Dugtrio)
CB Gaburaisu used EQ!
Pokemon X fainted!
Wobby comes in.

next turn.
CB Gaburaisu used EQ!
Wobby used counter!
CB Gaburaisu fainted!
=============================

Wobby would certainly be a pokemon ppl will have to deal with on WiFi. Now, let's discuss the future of this poke and whether it's worth a chance in the new metagame, or just strats for dealing with this on WiFi.

As for my opinion, the problem with Wobby is that two Wobbys would be the last two pokes and it would have to end in a struggle war, so it might not be viable in the metagame, but I would probably use it on WiFi ;)

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Well the fact is Wobby can take a hit, Dugtrio can't and Wobby can trap everything not with Shadow Tag. With all of the AGers and CBers Wobby would be more annoying this gen. Lets let it stay in 1v1 Ubers as is.

With Shadow Tag and the ability to switch out means Tracers can no longer trap and kill it.

 

[DChiuch]

True, it is much easier to beat this gen, but people don't want to have to make their teams able to beat it. It's just like Double Team, counterable, but not allowed because people don't want the metagame to revolve around it.

Woo, 100 posts.

 

[Mekkah]

Whether it's overpowered is debatable until the end of times, but I'll just say this: a metagame where Wobbuffet is allowed knows less versatility than one without Wobbuffet. You're basically forced to have Beautiful Skin to stop yourself from getting shitted on by it, limiting other items. And you can only really use offense to the point where you do enough damage to Wobbuffet because without it it's got one more cheap kill.

With the huge amount of CBer's, AG'ers and I feel that he/she/it is in no way overpowered or annoying as it once was and can serve as counters for certain pokes while being countered by others.

That works both ways really, you can use it both in Wobbuffet's advantage and disadvantage.

EDIT: I'd rather allow Double Team than allow Wobbuffet.

 

[Chill Murray]

I love the little blue blob, but sadly it's overpowered because of it's ability to take hits as well as its ability to trap anything.

If anything, it's gotten a bit more powerful this gen. With the Physical/Special split, Physical/Special sweepers that used to run a Special/Physical move to counter Skarm/Bliss will now pack a SE Physical/Special move to counter it instead. What does this mean for Wobby? Less guesswork.

I'll probably use one online, because it's one of my favorite Pokemon, but I don't think it belongs in the competitive metagame.

 

[Mike B]

EDIT: I'd rather allow Double Team than allow Wobbuffet.

QFE

if this really was allowed i would carry about 2 trickbanders that are mixed sweepers -.-

 

[Archmaster Mesa]

maybe....

There really is no way to tell if Wobby will be nearly as good this gen as it was last gen, and if it should remain in ubers or drop to to OU without letting it back into OU. I think we should let it out of ubers and into OU for awhile when Competitors gets up and running just to see how it does. Depending on how things go it can go back to ubers or remain in OU. Although I myself think it's an uber, we should try and be fair and give the little blob a chance.

 

[e4protector]

*is not familiar with smogon tiers*
As far as this is concerned, PR tiers are the same as Smogon tiers. Wobbuffet is uber in Adv but that was because Wobby vs Wobby created horrendous stall wars. I don't see how it's that much better than Duggy as far as anything else. Duggy can trap stuff and OHKO with whatever attack is SE. Wobbuffet is basically a Dugtrio that can trap Zapdos/Salamence.

Also, with the high number of powerful CBers and AGers, Wobbuffet won't like taking hits any more. It can't switch in on AG/CB attacks and not die if it tries to switch again after killing something. Also with Spikes, Poison Spikes, and Rock Spikes existing, that might just cause it to get 2HKO'd by Zapdos's AG T-Bolt or Gablias's CB Earthquake.

Also annoyers still beat Wobbuffet. TSS teams seem to be a possible threat here because of all of the new spikes, along with Land Hippo for Sandstorm. TSS teams could also be TSH teams using Yukinooh and its hail ability.

 

[Erebos]

EDIT: I'd rather allow Double Team than allow Wobbuffet.

I agree whole-heartedly and would like to add that DT + OHKO > Wobbuffet. The fact that one still has to sacrifice a poke to get a counter to face Wobby does not make it usable in the Standard game, and will not make it usable in the future DP metagame. Even the fact that Struggle now removes 1/4 of the user's HP does not help the Wobbuffet case, as one still has to wait a whole lot of turns before either Wobby runs out of PP.

 

[Jumpman16]

We'll never really know until we test it out, but like Mekkah said, the advent of more CB and AG threats isn't exactly a threat to Wobbuffet, since you can and should look at it both ways. Duggy isn't "gay" just because of its trait, it's "gay" because of the notion of revenge kills, and Wobby vs. most CB and AG pokemon is even "gayer". And I'll add to that Adherence Scarf pokemon, who are all going to be murdered pretty badly by Wobbuffet as far as revenge kills go since they're not packing the extra punch that is destined by some to doom Wobby in DP.

Besides that, we can't really say that much about it until we test it, though the thread about it I made in Advance seemed to go on and on without us ever actually testing it so "here we go again..."

 

[Surgo]

I'm against clausing of all sorts, so I'd be more than happy to try Wobbuffet in DP (along with DT and OHKO).

Also annoyers still beat Wobbuffet.

How do annoyers "beat" Wobbuffet? You encore the annoy move like Thunder Wave and then switch in to something immune, like Landshark.

 

[evolutia]

I'm 100% for Wobbuffet to be tested in D/P to see weather it should belong in ubers or not. Many people still have the ADV mindset when it comes to pokemon. D/P is a new generation that Wobbuffet should be tested in.

 

[Misty]

Absolutely not. Wobbuffet limits the game far too much to even be remotely reasonable.

 

[PM]

god I hate this discussion. My view on it is to not allow all pokemon that are way too powerfull from standard, and since wobb isn't "way too powerful" or wobb vs wobb stall wars cant happen anymore, I don't see what the big issue is. You can make the argument that there's less versatility in the metagame as you need at least 1 beautiful skin pokemon, but I dont see how that's any different from having to counter Gablias with at least a few fast ice beam pokemon. =\ I mean, I guess the game is too limited because you always need something to stop bp teams, or a gabrarasu set up.

<-------------DANCING WOBB

 

[Misty]

BP teams were broken, they're just not claused because Advance is nearly done and nobody cares anymore. If they're just as bad in DP (and I bet they will be), people will start finding ways to limit them.

Gablias might require some sort of special attention, but we'll have to see.

 

[X-Act]

I'm still convinced that Somersault was invented for the sole reason of countering Wobbuffet.

Look at it: Bug-typed, so it's supereffective versus Wobbuffet, and you switch, even in spite of Shadow Tag.

I believe that Wobbuffet wasn't made uber in ADV just because of Wobbu-vs-Wobbu. Clicking this link tells you why it was banned in OU: http://www.smogon.com/rs/strategies/wobbuffet.

However, I'm all in favor of trying out Wobbuffet in DP, just like every other Pokemon and move.

 

[Phuquoph]

I doubt Somersault was made solely to screw Wobb. More than likely they came up with the idea for move and someone said "make it super effective on Wobb".

I view Wobb in the same way as DT and OHKOs. I'd rather leave them out of the game initially, then try them later if and when the metagame becomes stale. It would shake things up and make it more interesting.

I went and looked at some of my planned teams for DP and they don't have that much to fear from Wobb actually. This is despite the fact the were made without Wobb in mind, he's a lot easier to take down in this generation - even without trying too hard.

 

[Mekkah]

Countering Wobbuffet with Somersault is technically impossible unless you put it on all your Pokemon or something. It'll just trap stuff without Somersault. Also if you don't have a Ghost he'll just counter Somersault into your face.

 

[chewy]

Has anyone tested whether counter still works on Somersaulters? If Somersault is truly a counter for Wobby, Wobby should be allowed in the metagame again for testing. Sure it has a big impact on the metagame, but so does SkarmBliss in this gen. With the new range of movesets, there may be even more counters available.

 

[Misty]

Wobbuffet counters don't matter. If you have 5 Wobbuffet counters and one Pokemon that can't handle it, that one Pokemon is screwed.

 

[X-Act]

Yeah, Somersault is not a good enough counter, of course, but I'm sure it was invented for that reason.

Oh, I want to ask a question. Since a Shadow Tag Pokemon versus another Shadow Tag Pokemon are both free to switch, does that mean that a Pokemon that Traces Shadow Tag would be allowed to switch as well?

 

[sarunibi]

Wobbuffet should be given a chance, seeing that we have all this new stuff.

Beautiful Skin does sound like a decent option. Not every pokemon has enough in an attack category to be trying to use Choice Band or Adherence Glasses. And not every pokemon has enough speed to make Adherence Scarf worthwhile. And not every pokemon has enough durability to be using leftovers in the first place.

So it couldn't hurt. I mean, Beautiful Skin would be used for more then just Wobby. You've also got Dugtrio and Magneton/Jibacoil (if you are using a steel).

Somersault is definitely a nice addition. Somersault, give big damage, then pass to a ghost.

You've still got Baton Passers.

You've also got Taunters. Use taunt so it can't encore you, then use that time to setup your own pokemon.

I feel that the "I shouldn't have to base my team around one poke" argument is stupid, cause already people are doing it for Gablias.

Regardless, we should do what people are saying to do for DT and OHKO's, give it a chance first. When DP comes out, let Wobbuffet (and Wynaut) back in on a trial basis. If it becomes too cheap to take out, then go ahead and ban. But Wobby should at least be given a chance. Generations change, and what was once super strong in one generation becomes weak in the next (and vice versa).

100th post!

 

[Mekkah]

"I feel that the "I shouldn't have to base my team around one poke" argument is stupid, cause already people are doing it for Gablias."

People are just making sure Gablias doesn't come in for free. They're not using 6 Ice Beams and only Pokemon faster than 102 base Speed or that survive Swords Danced Earthquakes or something. That's totally different from Wobbuffet who can always kill something on your team even if you have 5 Pokemon with Beautiful Skin/Taunt/Baton Pass/Somersault/whatever, namely the one without it.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

Wobbuffet who can always kill something on your team even if you have 5 Pokemon with Beautiful Skin/Taunt/Baton Pass/Somersault/whatever, namely the one without it.

Mekkah's reasoning would be why I'm against it. For everything in this game that can hit a bit harder there's still plenty that can't even hope to do 30%+ to Wobbuffet (a lot of walls for example), and with those it's either: Encore-Free set up fodder or it's near-guarenteed to be eliminated.

I wouldn't mind seeing it allowed on a trial basis for a small time, maybe even try to create a tournament where it's allowed, but unless evidence shows up to prove otherwise I'm agaisnt it's inclusion.

 

[AJC]

even with the Shadow tag nerf in DP and struggle doing alot more recoil damage wubby still is highly effective at removing a pokemon from a team or setting up something to own you