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Why are the Nidos running Moon Stone when they could be running the infinitely better Life Orb anyway?
(As a note, Moon Stone is IIRC not being catered to Clefable or the Nidos because they do better with Life Orb)
(As a note, Moon Stone is IIRC not being catered to Clefable or the Nidos because they do better with Life Orb)
Okay lets go through the stones:
Moon stone
Pretty happy with this one. Normalize Delcatty still has its niche, Musharna still gets Rank 6 SpA (Modest/Queit) and now gains 10 BAP Dazzling Gleam. The only question I'd pose is whether Wigglytuff is getting enough, especially since it has 17 BRT. I'm not necessarily saying it isn't enough as +2 to both STABs and pretty important Psychic coverage is good while also giving recoil free Double Edge and Wild Charge to encourage Brave but others might disagree?
Dawn Stone
No real issues here, happy with what's proposed
Fire Stone
Like most I prefer option 2. Recoiless Flare Blitz is great for both Arcanine and Flareon. Ninetales definitely appreciates 100% acc no drawback Overheat so it can be Modest. Simisear loses and gains so ends up equal. I'd clarify whether mons can still receieve Blaze/Flash Fire boosts on top of the Stone boost though.
Leaf Stone
I'm not sure if this is enough. Half of what gets the Chlorophyll boosts (see Exeggutor and Vileplume) are pretty slow and likely on -spe natures. Grass is a reasonably terrible attacking type so maybe something to boost other common types to the mons ie Dawn Stone/Moon Stone? I'm looking at Poison especially for the part poison types. The Leaf part is only giving Simisage +4 to Leaf Storm. I just sort of think some of the dual types are a tad worse off than Rare Candy since their dual type is why they might be used.
Thunderstone
It would be great if the grand total of 3 FE mons who use this item didn't have totally different abilities. I still feel a little like Eelektross is missing out, since Raichu and Joleton get expert belt/2 plus something else. My first idea is to drop the +1 to SE moves and make it so Levitating Pokemon cannot be smackdowned/effected by gravity?
Shiny Stone
Agreed that only Florges is going to use this, and even then use is questionable. 15 BAP no charge solarbeam is a lot. So is 11 BAP Dazzling Gleam. I really don't know what to do with this though, and I'm not sure how much attention is really deserved since it will see such little use.
Water Stone
This was always going to be the hardest one. Some mons (looking at you Ludicollo) are always going to get better boosts unless we change the item wholesale. Ludi, Vaporeon and Polowrath are fine. Cloyster is never going to use it anyway. Simipour is fine and this way allows Torrent to activate too. Starmie is the one I'd be looking at as it is potentially a good item for it. Like Leaf Stone though I feel like ultimately Starmie would like the Psychic boost too. Again not sure what to do here but I'd focus on Starmie
Moon stone
Pretty happy with this one. Normalize Delcatty still has its niche, Musharna still gets Rank 6 SpA (Modest/Queit) and now gains 10 BAP Dazzling Gleam. The only question I'd pose is whether Wigglytuff is getting enough, especially since it has 17 BRT. I'm not necessarily saying it isn't enough as +2 to both STABs and pretty important Psychic coverage is good while also giving recoil free Double Edge and Wild Charge to encourage Brave but others might disagree?
Dawn Stone
No real issues here, happy with what's proposed
Fire Stone
Like most I prefer option 2. Recoiless Flare Blitz is great for both Arcanine and Flareon. Ninetales definitely appreciates 100% acc no drawback Overheat so it can be Modest. Simisear loses and gains so ends up equal. I'd clarify whether mons can still receieve Blaze/Flash Fire boosts on top of the Stone boost though.
Leaf Stone
I'm not sure if this is enough. Half of what gets the Chlorophyll boosts (see Exeggutor and Vileplume) are pretty slow and likely on -spe natures. Grass is a reasonably terrible attacking type so maybe something to boost other common types to the mons ie Dawn Stone/Moon Stone? I'm looking at Poison especially for the part poison types. The Leaf part is only giving Simisage +4 to Leaf Storm. I just sort of think some of the dual types are a tad worse off than Rare Candy since their dual type is why they might be used.
Thunderstone
It would be great if the grand total of 3 FE mons who use this item didn't have totally different abilities. I still feel a little like Eelektross is missing out, since Raichu and Joleton get expert belt/2 plus something else. My first idea is to drop the +1 to SE moves and make it so Levitating Pokemon cannot be smackdowned/effected by gravity?
Shiny Stone
Agreed that only Florges is going to use this, and even then use is questionable. 15 BAP no charge solarbeam is a lot. So is 11 BAP Dazzling Gleam. I really don't know what to do with this though, and I'm not sure how much attention is really deserved since it will see such little use.
Water Stone
This was always going to be the hardest one. Some mons (looking at you Ludicollo) are always going to get better boosts unless we change the item wholesale. Ludi, Vaporeon and Polowrath are fine. Cloyster is never going to use it anyway. Simipour is fine and this way allows Torrent to activate too. Starmie is the one I'd be looking at as it is potentially a good item for it. Like Leaf Stone though I feel like ultimately Starmie would like the Psychic boost too. Again not sure what to do here but I'd focus on Starmie
- Moon Stone: Heal Pulse gives 20hp for 14en. 35hp for 18en is a very very nice trade. And Musharna already gets Rare Candy + extra bap to dazzling gleam, and there isn't any reason to give it more than rare candy alone really. As for wigglytuff, the previous version was considered fine on it without the extra bap on fairy. With it I assume the result is even more fine?
- Dawn Stone: Carry On
- Fire Stone: Flash Fire/blaze activation would increase the bap boost to +2. But I will move it to booth regardless and make it clearer.
- Leaf Stone: Yeah Vileplume and Exeggutor get the short end of the stick if compared to the others, but I still think it is on par with Rare Candy. Vileplume seriously doesn't need attack, so it gets +50 speed, +1SpA and better Leaf Storm and Petal Dance. And exeggutor can work with a 95 speed and better Leaf Storm and SpA. Simisage is eh, but it was already close to the desired parameter, so the Leaf Storm boost is probably enough. I might put those to voting tho. But I don't want to boost secondary stabs since it feels...weird, given the secondary stabs are so different from a leaf, so flavorwise it is very iffy.
- Thunder Stone: I am seriously considering removing the Volt Absorb boost, since it boosts only jolteon, which is already boosted by everything else (better SpA, better important STABs, better SE should it occur AND +1SpA due to Lightning Rod). As for Eelektross yeah it is getting a worse boost than Raichu/Jolteon, but it was cursed by Gamefreak with a better attack, so not much I can do about it. The boosts on it still add to a very interesting result (+2 main stabs and Expert Belt lite) since it is better than Rare Candy (which would give +1atk and +2bap on electric moves) and it is comparable to the most common item on it: Expert Belt. Again: I don't mind if a pokemon gets more boosted than the other (or else we would do this forever), as long as nothing goes overboard and the total boost is at least equal to rare candy on all mons
- Shiny Stone: Again: this is tailored solely to Florges. And even then only Cincinno arguably gets the short end of the stick and all the others get a boost comparable to Rare Candy. I can add something to benefit cincinno for what it is worth, but I really don't see it as necessary.
- Water Stone: Yeah Starmie is to be focused upon. But....I am not into boosting psychic moves, since only starmie uses those. At least if we give another kind of boost we would try to make cloyster use it too. I am leaning towards replacing the +5%acc (or not) with +2bap on ice moves and turning it into a dusk stone lite for Starmie, Simipour and Cloyster. Except that if I do so then yeah Simisage will need a better leaf stone to be comparable to the other monkeys.
Final result on stuff and votings will comes in 48-72h depending on feedback.
- Dawn Stone: Carry On
- Fire Stone: Flash Fire/blaze activation would increase the bap boost to +2. But I will move it to booth regardless and make it clearer.
- Leaf Stone: Yeah Vileplume and Exeggutor get the short end of the stick if compared to the others, but I still think it is on par with Rare Candy. Vileplume seriously doesn't need attack, so it gets +50 speed, +1SpA and better Leaf Storm and Petal Dance. And exeggutor can work with a 95 speed and better Leaf Storm and SpA. Simisage is eh, but it was already close to the desired parameter, so the Leaf Storm boost is probably enough. I might put those to voting tho. But I don't want to boost secondary stabs since it feels...weird, given the secondary stabs are so different from a leaf, so flavorwise it is very iffy.
- Thunder Stone: I am seriously considering removing the Volt Absorb boost, since it boosts only jolteon, which is already boosted by everything else (better SpA, better important STABs, better SE should it occur AND +1SpA due to Lightning Rod). As for Eelektross yeah it is getting a worse boost than Raichu/Jolteon, but it was cursed by Gamefreak with a better attack, so not much I can do about it. The boosts on it still add to a very interesting result (+2 main stabs and Expert Belt lite) since it is better than Rare Candy (which would give +1atk and +2bap on electric moves) and it is comparable to the most common item on it: Expert Belt. Again: I don't mind if a pokemon gets more boosted than the other (or else we would do this forever), as long as nothing goes overboard and the total boost is at least equal to rare candy on all mons
- Shiny Stone: Again: this is tailored solely to Florges. And even then only Cincinno arguably gets the short end of the stick and all the others get a boost comparable to Rare Candy. I can add something to benefit cincinno for what it is worth, but I really don't see it as necessary.
- Water Stone: Yeah Starmie is to be focused upon. But....I am not into boosting psychic moves, since only starmie uses those. At least if we give another kind of boost we would try to make cloyster use it too. I am leaning towards replacing the +5%acc (or not) with +2bap on ice moves and turning it into a dusk stone lite for Starmie, Simipour and Cloyster. Except that if I do so then yeah Simisage will need a better leaf stone to be comparable to the other monkeys.
Final result on stuff and votings will comes in 48-72h depending on feedback.
Chiming in about Water Stone since I used to use Starmie. From whichever angle you see it, Starmie's not going to keep up with Water Stone Ludicolo or even LO Krilowatt / insert Rank B+ and above Water-mon. For me Starmie's strengths lies in STAB/Boltbeam coverage plus a few disrupting status moves, which supposedly (using the term loosely here) makes Expert Belt a better fit than most, unless a) we go out of our way to buff Water Stone, or b) situation arises in battle where Starmie requires its Water STAB much more than any coverage. So IMHO FMD's suggestion is pretty good, maybe bump it up to +10% acc to remove hax out of Starmie's Hydro Pump while keeping Simipour and Cloyster in line.
The proposed end results are:
Alright, I will open the voting thread for the following questions:
1) Armor Fossil should boost:
a) Special Attack
b) Physical Attack
2) Dubious Disc change yay or nay?
a) Yay
b) Nay (must present suggestion)
3) Dragon Scale should boost:
a) Swift Swim
b) Sniper
4) Up-Grade should be adjusted?
a) Yay (must specify how)
b) Nay
5) Magmarizer should be adjusted?
a) Yay (must specify how)
b) Nay
6) Rock Incense should boost:
a) Rattled
b) Sturdy
7) Which Fire Stone version should we use?
a) The affected Pokemon enters battle with Flash Fire and / or Blaze activated. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Increases accuracy of Fire-Typed moves by 10% (flat) and halves recoil damage and stat stage reduction due to the usage of them. Affected Pokemon: Vulpix, Ninetales, Growlithe, Arcanine, Eevee, Flareon, Pansear, Simisear.
b) The affected Pokemon enters battle Flash Fire/Blaze partially activated, increasing the BAP of Fire moves by 1. Blaze and Flash Fire can be fully triggered normally, raising the bap increase from 1 to 2. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Increases accuracy of Fire-Typed moves by 10% (flat) and prevents recoil damage and stat stage reduction due to the usage of them. Affected Pokemon: Vulpix, Ninetales, Growlithe, Arcanine, Eevee, Flareon, Pansear, Simisear.
8) Should Leaf Stone grant the holders access to the move "Leaf Blade"?
a) Yay
b) Nay
(reasoning: so simisage has a reliable stab boosted by leaf stone. It is a basically "does simisage need more than what leaf stone gives for it to reach rare candy level? Keep in mind tho that if you compare the end result with Simisear...well, don't be eager to push the boost button)
9) Should we bother with Cincinno wrt Shiny Stone?
a) Yay (must explain how)
b) Nay
10) Of the below Which boost is best for Starmie/Cloyster/Simipour?
a) +2bap to water moves and +5% flat acc to them
b) +2bap to water moves and +10% flat acc to them
c) +2bap to water and ice moves
Slate will stay here for analysis for 24hish. If you have any other question you want to add, you have 24h to mention them. With backing up.
Fairy Tech - Causes Moonblast's secondary effect to always activate. Increases the Pokemon's SpD by 1. Boosts BAP Boost from Pixilate by 1 and causes it to be applicable also to moves originally Fairy-Typed.
King's Rock: All attacks used by the Pokemon that connect have a 10% chance to cause the opponent to flinch. Multi-hit moves have as many chances to flinch as hits made successfully. If held by Poliwhirl, Politoed, Slowpoke, or Slowking, it increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) rank and continuously activates Water Absorb and Regenerator, granting +2hp per action due to it for each ability.
Metal Coat: Increases the damage dealt by all Steel-type attacks used by the Pokemon by four (4). If held by Onix, Scyther, Steelix or Scizor, it increases the Pokemon's Attack by one (1) rank and grants the holder STAB on Steel-Typed moves, if they don't have it already.
Cover Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank. The Effect from Swift Swim is doubled.
Dome Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.
Helix Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases SpA by one (1) Rank.
Jaw Fossil: Boosts Strong Jaw's Effect by 2 BAP. Increase accuracy on all moves by 10% (flat). Increases Special Defense by one (1) Rank.
Root Fossil: Enhances Storm Drain to increase Special Attack by two (2) stages (adjusting the natural stage) when activated and to not redirect allies' attacks. Reduces the Energy Cost of HP Draining Attacks / Recovery Moves by one (1). Increases the healing done by Single-Burst Draining or Recovery moves (e.g. Giga Drain, Recover, Mega Drain, Absorb, Morning Sun) by 3hp and of Ingrain by 1hp. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.
Sail Fossil: Boosts BAP Boost from Refrigerate by 1 and causes it to be applicable also to moves originally Ice-Typed.. Increases SpA by one (1) Rank.
Oval Stone: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack and Defense one (1) rank each.
Reaper Cloth: Raises the Energy cost of all incoming attacks by two (2). Increases the BAP of Physical Ghost moves by three (3).
Electirizer: Increases the Pokemon's Attack and Special Attack by one (1) rank each. The Base Attack Power of this Pokemon's "Punch" attacks is increased by one (1). (Known attacks affected: Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Dynamic Punch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Shadow Punch, Sky Uppercut, Thunder Punch, Power-Up Punch)
Prism Scale: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) rank and the bap of Water-Typed damaging moves by one (1). Increases the Base Attack Power reduction of the Marvel Scale ability to four (4) BAP.
Mawilite: Allows Mawile to Mega-Evolve into Mega Mawile.
Rose Incense: Leaf Guard is always active, regardless of weather. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense by one (1) Rank Each. Natural Cure activates after 3 actions instead of 6.
Odd Incense: Energy Cost for the Pokemon's barrier moves (Reflect/Light Screen/Quick Guard/Safeguard/Wide Guard/Barrier/Protect) is reduced by 2. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense Ranks by one (1) each.
Full Incense: Increases Atk and SpD ranks by one (1) each. When the Pokemon uses Rest they will gain 15 HP per action.
Luck Incense: Increases Special Attack and Special Defense ranks by one (1). Increases Healer's effect chance to 50%, and checks for status of the Pokemon itself and its allies. The Pokemon's owner gains one (1) additional Currency Counter for each battle the Pokemon participates in. Can be used in Training battles.
Pure Incense: Increases the Pokemon's two (2) highest true base stats (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each. If the true base stat values are equal, each Rank is raised. Allows the usage of the move "Heal Bell" without taking up an action. Increases hp boost on Recovery moves by 3 and reduces energy cost by 1.
Sea Incense: Increases Defense and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. Increases accuracy on physical moves by 10% (flat). The move Play Rough is unaffected by Torment, Disable or Imprison. If the holder doesn't have Huge Power, increases Defense and Special Defense by a further Rank.
Moon Stone: Increases the Base Attack Power of Normal, Fairy and Psychic-type moves by two (2), and prevents damage from recoil on all moves. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Affected Pokemon: Nidorina, Nidoqueen, Nidorino, Nidoking, Jigglypuff, Wigglytuff, Clefairy, Clefable, Skitty, Delcatty, Munna, Musharna
Dawn Stone: Increases the Base Attack Power of Psychic-type and Ghost-type attacks by two (2). Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Affected Pokemon: Snorunt, Kirlia, Froslass, Gallade
Thunder Stone: Triggers Lightning Rod once upon sendout. Continuously activates Volt Absorb, granting one (1) HP per action. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Boosts all moves with "Thunder" on the name by 2bap. Increases the BAP of Super-Effective moves by 1. Affected Pokemon: Pikachu, Raichu, Eevee, Jolteon, Eelektrik, Eelektross
King's Rock: All attacks used by the Pokemon that connect have a 10% chance to cause the opponent to flinch. Multi-hit moves have as many chances to flinch as hits made successfully. If held by Poliwhirl, Politoed, Slowpoke, or Slowking, it increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) rank and continuously activates Water Absorb and Regenerator, granting +2hp per action due to it for each ability.
Metal Coat: Increases the damage dealt by all Steel-type attacks used by the Pokemon by four (4). If held by Onix, Scyther, Steelix or Scizor, it increases the Pokemon's Attack by one (1) rank and grants the holder STAB on Steel-Typed moves, if they don't have it already.
Cover Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank. The Effect from Swift Swim is doubled.
Dome Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.
Helix Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases SpA by one (1) Rank.
Jaw Fossil: Boosts Strong Jaw's Effect by 2 BAP. Increase accuracy on all moves by 10% (flat). Increases Special Defense by one (1) Rank.
Root Fossil: Enhances Storm Drain to increase Special Attack by two (2) stages (adjusting the natural stage) when activated and to not redirect allies' attacks. Reduces the Energy Cost of HP Draining Attacks / Recovery Moves by one (1). Increases the healing done by Single-Burst Draining or Recovery moves (e.g. Giga Drain, Recover, Mega Drain, Absorb, Morning Sun) by 3hp and of Ingrain by 1hp. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.
Sail Fossil: Boosts BAP Boost from Refrigerate by 1 and causes it to be applicable also to moves originally Ice-Typed.. Increases SpA by one (1) Rank.
Oval Stone: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack and Defense one (1) rank each.
Reaper Cloth: Raises the Energy cost of all incoming attacks by two (2). Increases the BAP of Physical Ghost moves by three (3).
Electirizer: Increases the Pokemon's Attack and Special Attack by one (1) rank each. The Base Attack Power of this Pokemon's "Punch" attacks is increased by one (1). (Known attacks affected: Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Dynamic Punch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Shadow Punch, Sky Uppercut, Thunder Punch, Power-Up Punch)
Prism Scale: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) rank and the bap of Water-Typed damaging moves by one (1). Increases the Base Attack Power reduction of the Marvel Scale ability to four (4) BAP.
Mawilite: Allows Mawile to Mega-Evolve into Mega Mawile.
Rose Incense: Leaf Guard is always active, regardless of weather. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense by one (1) Rank Each. Natural Cure activates after 3 actions instead of 6.
Odd Incense: Energy Cost for the Pokemon's barrier moves (Reflect/Light Screen/Quick Guard/Safeguard/Wide Guard/Barrier/Protect) is reduced by 2. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense Ranks by one (1) each.
Full Incense: Increases Atk and SpD ranks by one (1) each. When the Pokemon uses Rest they will gain 15 HP per action.
Luck Incense: Increases Special Attack and Special Defense ranks by one (1). Increases Healer's effect chance to 50%, and checks for status of the Pokemon itself and its allies. The Pokemon's owner gains one (1) additional Currency Counter for each battle the Pokemon participates in. Can be used in Training battles.
Pure Incense: Increases the Pokemon's two (2) highest true base stats (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each. If the true base stat values are equal, each Rank is raised. Allows the usage of the move "Heal Bell" without taking up an action. Increases hp boost on Recovery moves by 3 and reduces energy cost by 1.
Sea Incense: Increases Defense and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. Increases accuracy on physical moves by 10% (flat). The move Play Rough is unaffected by Torment, Disable or Imprison. If the holder doesn't have Huge Power, increases Defense and Special Defense by a further Rank.
Moon Stone: Increases the Base Attack Power of Normal, Fairy and Psychic-type moves by two (2), and prevents damage from recoil on all moves. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Affected Pokemon: Nidorina, Nidoqueen, Nidorino, Nidoking, Jigglypuff, Wigglytuff, Clefairy, Clefable, Skitty, Delcatty, Munna, Musharna
Dawn Stone: Increases the Base Attack Power of Psychic-type and Ghost-type attacks by two (2). Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Affected Pokemon: Snorunt, Kirlia, Froslass, Gallade
Thunder Stone: Triggers Lightning Rod once upon sendout. Continuously activates Volt Absorb, granting one (1) HP per action. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Boosts all moves with "Thunder" on the name by 2bap. Increases the BAP of Super-Effective moves by 1. Affected Pokemon: Pikachu, Raichu, Eevee, Jolteon, Eelektrik, Eelektross
Alright, I will open the voting thread for the following questions:
1) Armor Fossil should boost:
a) Special Attack
b) Physical Attack
2) Dubious Disc change yay or nay?
a) Yay
b) Nay (must present suggestion)
3) Dragon Scale should boost:
a) Swift Swim
b) Sniper
4) Up-Grade should be adjusted?
a) Yay (must specify how)
b) Nay
5) Magmarizer should be adjusted?
a) Yay (must specify how)
b) Nay
6) Rock Incense should boost:
a) Rattled
b) Sturdy
7) Which Fire Stone version should we use?
a) The affected Pokemon enters battle with Flash Fire and / or Blaze activated. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Increases accuracy of Fire-Typed moves by 10% (flat) and halves recoil damage and stat stage reduction due to the usage of them. Affected Pokemon: Vulpix, Ninetales, Growlithe, Arcanine, Eevee, Flareon, Pansear, Simisear.
b) The affected Pokemon enters battle Flash Fire/Blaze partially activated, increasing the BAP of Fire moves by 1. Blaze and Flash Fire can be fully triggered normally, raising the bap increase from 1 to 2. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Increases accuracy of Fire-Typed moves by 10% (flat) and prevents recoil damage and stat stage reduction due to the usage of them. Affected Pokemon: Vulpix, Ninetales, Growlithe, Arcanine, Eevee, Flareon, Pansear, Simisear.
8) Should Leaf Stone grant the holders access to the move "Leaf Blade"?
a) Yay
b) Nay
(reasoning: so simisage has a reliable stab boosted by leaf stone. It is a basically "does simisage need more than what leaf stone gives for it to reach rare candy level? Keep in mind tho that if you compare the end result with Simisear...well, don't be eager to push the boost button)
9) Should we bother with Cincinno wrt Shiny Stone?
a) Yay (must explain how)
b) Nay
10) Of the below Which boost is best for Starmie/Cloyster/Simipour?
a) +2bap to water moves and +5% flat acc to them
b) +2bap to water moves and +10% flat acc to them
c) +2bap to water and ice moves
Slate will stay here for analysis for 24hish. If you have any other question you want to add, you have 24h to mention them. With backing up.
I'm not sure Fire Stone even needs to be voted upon, it was pretty universally agreed. The only point we wanted clarified was how it interacts with Flash Fire/Blaze
I still don't agree that Simisage is the only one missing out on Leaf Stone. Its hard to argue "Leaf" flavour when at the same time we are suggesting Water Stone can boost Ice BAP. That said a uniformed boost is hard to come by which helps Vileplume and Exeggutor.
I still don't agree that Simisage is the only one missing out on Leaf Stone. Its hard to argue "Leaf" flavour when at the same time we are suggesting Water Stone can boost Ice BAP. That said a uniformed boost is hard to come by which helps Vileplume and Exeggutor.
If the Leaf Blade thing passes Simisage will have a 13bap reliable physical STAB and a 17bap semi-reliable special STAB. For reference Simisear has a 13bap reliable physical stab (flare blitz) and a 14bap reliable special stab (overheat). With the difference that sage gets better stab than sear (+2 vs +1). So it is more than enough to put it on par with other monkeys.
As for ice on simipour, it is a suggestion. Sure, if ice is picked, then sage must be a boost also. But if it isn't then boosting sage further might be harder to justify.
Sure, if you feel the leaf blade thinge isn't enough or isn't a good option I am all ears/eyes
As for ice on simipour, it is a suggestion. Sure, if ice is picked, then sage must be a boost also. But if it isn't then boosting sage further might be harder to justify.
Sure, if you feel the leaf blade thinge isn't enough or isn't a good option I am all ears/eyes
K, so to the voting thread, these are the final results:
Fairy Tech - Causes Moonblast's secondary effect to always activate. Increases the Pokemon's SpD by 1. Boosts BAP Boost from Pixilate by 1 and causes it to be applicable also to moves originally Fairy-Typed.
King's Rock: All attacks used by the Pokemon that connect have a 10% chance to cause the opponent to flinch. Multi-hit moves have as many chances to flinch as hits made successfully. If held by Poliwhirl, Politoed, Slowpoke, or Slowking, it increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) rank and continuously activates Water Absorb and Regenerator, granting +2hp per action due to it for each ability.
Metal Coat: Increases the damage dealt by all Steel-type attacks used by the Pokemon by four (4). If held by Onix, Scyther, Steelix or Scizor, it increases the Pokemon's Attack by one (1) rank and grants the holder STAB on Steel-Typed moves, if they don't have it already.
Cover Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank. The Effect from Swift Swim is doubled.
Dome Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.
Helix Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases SpA by one (1) Rank.
Jaw Fossil: Boosts Strong Jaw's Effect by 2 BAP. Increase accuracy on all moves by 10% (flat). Increases Special Defense by one (1) Rank.
Root Fossil: Enhances Storm Drain to increase Special Attack by two (2) stages (adjusting the natural stage) when activated and to not redirect allies' attacks. Reduces the Energy Cost of HP Draining Attacks / Recovery Moves by one (1). Increases the healing done by Single-Burst Draining or Recovery moves (e.g. Giga Drain, Recover, Mega Drain, Absorb, Morning Sun) by 3hp and of Ingrain by 1hp. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.
Sail Fossil: Boosts BAP Boost from Refrigerate by 1 and causes it to be applicable also to moves originally Ice-Typed.. Increases SpA by one (1) Rank.
Oval Stone: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack and Defense one (1) rank each.
Reaper Cloth: Raises the Energy cost of all incoming attacks by two (2). Increases the BAP of Physical Ghost moves by three (3).
Electirizer: Increases the Pokemon's Attack and Special Attack by one (1) rank each. The Base Attack Power of this Pokemon's "Punch" attacks is increased by one (1). (Known attacks affected: Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Dynamic Punch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Shadow Punch, Sky Uppercut, Thunder Punch, Power-Up Punch)
Prism Scale: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) rank and the bap of Water-Typed damaging moves by one (1). Increases the Base Attack Power reduction of the Marvel Scale ability to four (4) BAP.
Mawilite: Allows Mawile to Mega-Evolve into Mega Mawile.
Rose Incense: Leaf Guard is always active, regardless of weather. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense by one (1) Rank Each. Natural Cure activates after 3 actions instead of 6.
Odd Incense: Energy Cost for the Pokemon's barrier moves (Reflect/Light Screen/Quick Guard/Safeguard/Wide Guard/Barrier/Protect) is reduced by 2. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense Ranks by one (1) each.
Full Incense: Increases Atk and SpD ranks by one (1) each. When the Pokemon uses Rest they will gain 15 HP per action.
Luck Incense: Increases Special Attack and Special Defense ranks by one (1). Increases Healer's effect chance to 50%, and checks for status of the Pokemon itself and its allies. The Pokemon's owner gains one (1) additional Currency Counter for each battle the Pokemon participates in. Can be used in Training battles.
Pure Incense: Increases the Pokemon's two (2) highest true base stats (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each. If the true base stat values are equal, each Rank is raised. Allows the usage of the move "Heal Bell" without taking up an action. Increases hp boost on Recovery moves by 3 and reduces energy cost by 1.
Sea Incense: Increases Defense and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. Increases accuracy on physical moves by 10% (flat). The move Play Rough is unaffected by Torment, Disable or Imprison. If the holder doesn't have Huge Power, increases Defense and Special Defense by a further Rank.
Moon Stone: Increases the Base Attack Power of Normal, Fairy and Psychic-type moves by two (2), and prevents damage from recoil on all moves. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Affected Pokemon: Nidorina, Nidoqueen, Nidorino, Nidoking, Jigglypuff, Wigglytuff, Clefairy, Clefable, Skitty, Delcatty, Munna, Musharna
Dawn Stone: Increases the Base Attack Power of Psychic-type and Ghost-type attacks by two (2). Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Affected Pokemon: Snorunt, Kirlia, Froslass, Gallade
Thunder Stone: Triggers Lightning Rod once upon sendout. Continuously activates Volt Absorb, granting one (1) HP per action. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Boosts all moves with "Thunder" on the name by 2bap. Increases the BAP of Super-Effective moves by 1. Affected Pokemon: Pikachu, Raichu, Eevee, Jolteon, Eelektrik, Eelektross.
Armor Fossil: Immune to damage from ball and bomb attacks. (Full List: Acid Spray, Aura Sphere, Barrage, Bullet Seed, Egg Bomb, Electro Ball, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Gyro Ball, Ice Ball, Magnet Bomb, Mist Ball, Mud Bomb, Octazooka, Rock Wrecker, Seed Bomb, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Weather Ball, and Zap Cannon.) Increases Attack by one (1) Rank. Boosts BAP reduction from Sturdy by 1.
Dragon Scale: Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. Activates Swift Swim regardless of weather.
Rock Incense: Boosts Sturdy's BAP reduction from 1 to 2. Increases Attack and Defense by one (1) Rank each.
Fire Stone: The affected Pokemon enters battle Flash Fire/Blaze partially activated, increasing the BAP of Fire moves by 1. Blaze and Flash Fire can be fully triggered normally, raising the bap increase from 1 to 2. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Increases accuracy of Fire-Typed moves by 10% (flat) and prevents recoil damage and stat stage reduction due to the usage of them. Affected Pokemon: Vulpix, Ninetales, Growlithe, Arcanine, Eevee, Flareon, Pansear, Simisear.
Leaf Stone: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Overgrow and Chlorophyll activated. Increases the Base Attack Power of all attacks with "Leaf" or "Petal" in their name by two (2). Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Grants access to the move "Leaf Blade" if not already in the pokemon's movepool. Affected Pokemon: Gloom, Vileplume, Weepinbell, Victreebel, Exeggcute, Exeggutor, Nuzleaf, Shiftry, Pansage, Simisage.
Water Stone: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Hydration, Swift Swim and Rain Dish activated, regardless of weather. Continuously activates Water Absorb granting two (2) HP per action. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. If the holder doesn't have neither Rain Dish nor Water Absorb, increases the BAP of Water and Ice moves by 2. Affected Pokemon: Poliwhirl, Poliwrath, Shellder, Cloyster, Staryu, Starmie, Eevee, Vaporeon, Lombre, Ludicolo, Panpour, Simipour
Magmarizer: This Pokemon is immune to Fire-type attacks after the effects of abilities. Increases the Pokemon's Attack and Special Attack by one (1) rank each. The Base Attack Power of this Pokemon's "Punch" attacks is increased by one (1). (Known attacks affected: Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Dynamic Punch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Shadow Punch, Sky Uppercut, Thunder Punch, Power-Up Punch)
Shiny Stone: Causes Flower Veil to affect Fairy-typed mons. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Increases the BAP of Dazzling Gleam and Solar Beam by 3. Solar Beam may be used instantly without charging and can be used regardless of presence of light. Affected Pokemon: Togetic, Togekiss, Roselia, Roserade, Minccino, Cinccino, Floette, Florges
We just need to recheck Magmarizer (a version is above) and Up-Grade. More on that later today. g2g
Fairy Tech - Causes Moonblast's secondary effect to always activate. Increases the Pokemon's SpD by 1. Boosts BAP Boost from Pixilate by 1 and causes it to be applicable also to moves originally Fairy-Typed.
King's Rock: All attacks used by the Pokemon that connect have a 10% chance to cause the opponent to flinch. Multi-hit moves have as many chances to flinch as hits made successfully. If held by Poliwhirl, Politoed, Slowpoke, or Slowking, it increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) rank and continuously activates Water Absorb and Regenerator, granting +2hp per action due to it for each ability.
Metal Coat: Increases the damage dealt by all Steel-type attacks used by the Pokemon by four (4). If held by Onix, Scyther, Steelix or Scizor, it increases the Pokemon's Attack by one (1) rank and grants the holder STAB on Steel-Typed moves, if they don't have it already.
Cover Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank. The Effect from Swift Swim is doubled.
Dome Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.
Helix Fossil: Swift Swim is activated, regardless of Weather. Weak Armor does not lower Defense when activated. Increases SpA by one (1) Rank.
Jaw Fossil: Boosts Strong Jaw's Effect by 2 BAP. Increase accuracy on all moves by 10% (flat). Increases Special Defense by one (1) Rank.
Root Fossil: Enhances Storm Drain to increase Special Attack by two (2) stages (adjusting the natural stage) when activated and to not redirect allies' attacks. Reduces the Energy Cost of HP Draining Attacks / Recovery Moves by one (1). Increases the healing done by Single-Burst Draining or Recovery moves (e.g. Giga Drain, Recover, Mega Drain, Absorb, Morning Sun) by 3hp and of Ingrain by 1hp. Increases Attack by one (1) Rank.
Sail Fossil: Boosts BAP Boost from Refrigerate by 1 and causes it to be applicable also to moves originally Ice-Typed.. Increases SpA by one (1) Rank.
Oval Stone: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack and Defense one (1) rank each.
Reaper Cloth: Raises the Energy cost of all incoming attacks by two (2). Increases the BAP of Physical Ghost moves by three (3).
Electirizer: Increases the Pokemon's Attack and Special Attack by one (1) rank each. The Base Attack Power of this Pokemon's "Punch" attacks is increased by one (1). (Known attacks affected: Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Dynamic Punch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Shadow Punch, Sky Uppercut, Thunder Punch, Power-Up Punch)
Prism Scale: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) rank and the bap of Water-Typed damaging moves by one (1). Increases the Base Attack Power reduction of the Marvel Scale ability to four (4) BAP.
Mawilite: Allows Mawile to Mega-Evolve into Mega Mawile.
Rose Incense: Leaf Guard is always active, regardless of weather. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense by one (1) Rank Each. Natural Cure activates after 3 actions instead of 6.
Odd Incense: Energy Cost for the Pokemon's barrier moves (Reflect/Light Screen/Quick Guard/Safeguard/Wide Guard/Barrier/Protect) is reduced by 2. Increases Special Attack and Special Defense Ranks by one (1) each.
Full Incense: Increases Atk and SpD ranks by one (1) each. When the Pokemon uses Rest they will gain 15 HP per action.
Luck Incense: Increases Special Attack and Special Defense ranks by one (1). Increases Healer's effect chance to 50%, and checks for status of the Pokemon itself and its allies. The Pokemon's owner gains one (1) additional Currency Counter for each battle the Pokemon participates in. Can be used in Training battles.
Pure Incense: Increases the Pokemon's two (2) highest true base stats (e.g. 130 Atk, 85 SpD) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) rank each. If the true base stat values are equal, each Rank is raised. Allows the usage of the move "Heal Bell" without taking up an action. Increases hp boost on Recovery moves by 3 and reduces energy cost by 1.
Sea Incense: Increases Defense and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. Increases accuracy on physical moves by 10% (flat). The move Play Rough is unaffected by Torment, Disable or Imprison. If the holder doesn't have Huge Power, increases Defense and Special Defense by a further Rank.
Moon Stone: Increases the Base Attack Power of Normal, Fairy and Psychic-type moves by two (2), and prevents damage from recoil on all moves. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Affected Pokemon: Nidorina, Nidoqueen, Nidorino, Nidoking, Jigglypuff, Wigglytuff, Clefairy, Clefable, Skitty, Delcatty, Munna, Musharna
Dawn Stone: Increases the Base Attack Power of Psychic-type and Ghost-type attacks by two (2). Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Affected Pokemon: Snorunt, Kirlia, Froslass, Gallade
Thunder Stone: Triggers Lightning Rod once upon sendout. Continuously activates Volt Absorb, granting one (1) HP per action. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Boosts all moves with "Thunder" on the name by 2bap. Increases the BAP of Super-Effective moves by 1. Affected Pokemon: Pikachu, Raichu, Eevee, Jolteon, Eelektrik, Eelektross.
Armor Fossil: Immune to damage from ball and bomb attacks. (Full List: Acid Spray, Aura Sphere, Barrage, Bullet Seed, Egg Bomb, Electro Ball, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Gyro Ball, Ice Ball, Magnet Bomb, Mist Ball, Mud Bomb, Octazooka, Rock Wrecker, Seed Bomb, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Weather Ball, and Zap Cannon.) Increases Attack by one (1) Rank. Boosts BAP reduction from Sturdy by 1.
Dragon Scale: Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. Activates Swift Swim regardless of weather.
Rock Incense: Boosts Sturdy's BAP reduction from 1 to 2. Increases Attack and Defense by one (1) Rank each.
Fire Stone: The affected Pokemon enters battle Flash Fire/Blaze partially activated, increasing the BAP of Fire moves by 1. Blaze and Flash Fire can be fully triggered normally, raising the bap increase from 1 to 2. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Increases accuracy of Fire-Typed moves by 10% (flat) and prevents recoil damage and stat stage reduction due to the usage of them. Affected Pokemon: Vulpix, Ninetales, Growlithe, Arcanine, Eevee, Flareon, Pansear, Simisear.
Leaf Stone: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Overgrow and Chlorophyll activated. Increases the Base Attack Power of all attacks with "Leaf" or "Petal" in their name by two (2). Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Grants access to the move "Leaf Blade" if not already in the pokemon's movepool. Affected Pokemon: Gloom, Vileplume, Weepinbell, Victreebel, Exeggcute, Exeggutor, Nuzleaf, Shiftry, Pansage, Simisage.
Water Stone: The affected Pokemon enters battle with Hydration, Swift Swim and Rain Dish activated, regardless of weather. Continuously activates Water Absorb granting two (2) HP per action. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. If the holder doesn't have neither Rain Dish nor Water Absorb, increases the BAP of Water and Ice moves by 2. Affected Pokemon: Poliwhirl, Poliwrath, Shellder, Cloyster, Staryu, Starmie, Eevee, Vaporeon, Lombre, Ludicolo, Panpour, Simipour
Magmarizer: This Pokemon is immune to Fire-type attacks after the effects of abilities. Increases the Pokemon's Attack and Special Attack by one (1) rank each. The Base Attack Power of this Pokemon's "Punch" attacks is increased by one (1). (Known attacks affected: Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Dynamic Punch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Hammer Arm, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Shadow Punch, Sky Uppercut, Thunder Punch, Power-Up Punch)
Shiny Stone: Causes Flower Veil to affect Fairy-typed mons. Increases the Pokemon's highest true base stat (e.g. 130 Atk) of Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense by one (1) Rank. If the highest true base stat is tied, each Rank is raised. Increases the BAP of Dazzling Gleam and Solar Beam by 3. Solar Beam may be used instantly without charging and can be used regardless of presence of light. Affected Pokemon: Togetic, Togekiss, Roselia, Roserade, Minccino, Cinccino, Floette, Florges
We just need to recheck Magmarizer (a version is above) and Up-Grade. More on that later today. g2g
I'm pretty happy with Magmarizer as stated and the Up-Grade that someone (Yas I think?) proposed. One thing I would ask is whether we are going to allow all of these effected mons to get free nature changes. I know for one my Kingdra and Tyrantrum might both be getting new natures due to this. Especially those mons where the stats boosted by the items have changed.
Since this is my area, I do not see why you should not get a free nature change for this so I am going to declare that the affected Pokémon are entitled a free nature change which expires a month after this is all implemented for reasons like keeping track of used nature changes months down the line.
You mean this?
Upgrade: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) rank. Enhances the effect of Trace to last until the Pokémon switches out, and eliminates its energy cost upon sendout. The Trace Command still costs 5 EN. Enhances Analytic to boost the BAP of affected moves by three (3) instead of two (2).
Eviolite is still better though, but I suppose it can serve for offensive Porygon2s
Thoughts?
Upgrade: Increases the Pokemon's Special Attack by one (1) rank. Enhances the effect of Trace to last until the Pokémon switches out, and eliminates its energy cost upon sendout. The Trace Command still costs 5 EN. Enhances Analytic to boost the BAP of affected moves by three (3) instead of two (2).
Eviolite is still better though, but I suppose it can serve for offensive Porygon2s
Thoughts?
Leethoof
If you keep shitposting and trolling around I will pull out the big guns. I had enough of you showing up here just to give snarky shitty comments to people who have much better things to do than to read those. If you think Armor Fossil is still too weak, be a normal human being and say it so. But next time you decide to be funny like that, I will make those warns make a permanent impression on your bastiodon face.
Am I clear?
That being said, anyone else share geodude6's feeling?
If you keep shitposting and trolling around I will pull out the big guns. I had enough of you showing up here just to give snarky shitty comments to people who have much better things to do than to read those. If you think Armor Fossil is still too weak, be a normal human being and say it so. But next time you decide to be funny like that, I will make those warns make a permanent impression on your bastiodon face.
Am I clear?
That being said, anyone else share geodude6's feeling?
Yeah that's the Up-grade I was referring to. Obviously still worse than Eviolite but comparable to what Rare Candy would do.
The same goes for Bastiodon. It's just a shit mon in general. Armor Fossil is giving it a lot better boosts than Rare Candy would (+1 Def, +1 to Rock and Steel). Lets just finish this all up and move on.
I think once again we need to stress that we aren't out to make sig items the best for each mon, merely making them as good or better than Rare Candy
The same goes for Bastiodon. It's just a shit mon in general. Armor Fossil is giving it a lot better boosts than Rare Candy would (+1 Def, +1 to Rock and Steel). Lets just finish this all up and move on.
I think once again we need to stress that we aren't out to make sig items the best for each mon, merely making them as good or better than Rare Candy
Okay proposal for new new Armor Fossil.
Armor Fossil: Confers the effects of Bulletproof on the holder. Increases Special Attack by one (1) rank. Increases the BAP of Rock and Steel-type moves by one (1), and increases the BAP of special Rock-type moves by a further two (2) BAP.
Reasoning: most of Bastiodon's coverage is on the special side, so a SpA boost would help give it an inkling of offensive presence. The bit about Bulletproof is just making the description shorter and not really taking anything away. I removed the Sturdy boost because Bastiodon is already so defensive that more damage reduction is really just overkill. It has a decent boost to Steel and physical Rock moves, and the further boost to special Rock basically just brings Ancient Power up to par with Flash Cannon.
Armor Fossil: Confers the effects of Bulletproof on the holder. Increases Special Attack by one (1) rank. Increases the BAP of Rock and Steel-type moves by one (1), and increases the BAP of special Rock-type moves by a further two (2) BAP.
Reasoning: most of Bastiodon's coverage is on the special side, so a SpA boost would help give it an inkling of offensive presence. The bit about Bulletproof is just making the description shorter and not really taking anything away. I removed the Sturdy boost because Bastiodon is already so defensive that more damage reduction is really just overkill. It has a decent boost to Steel and physical Rock moves, and the further boost to special Rock basically just brings Ancient Power up to par with Flash Cannon.
The council voted for a physical attack boost, so it gets a physical attack boost <_<.
I will rethink this and propose something more offense. But it will be a some more offensive with +1atk on it regardless. Maybe copy all the items that got a mini-expert belt effect
EDIT
We were tinkering around another more offensive idea for armor fossil:
(ignoring wording. It will be prettier on implementation)
Armor Fossil: +1 Atk. +2WC. Sturdy acts like Focus Band on top of normal effects.
extra wc is to boost heavy slam. Physical attack only misses fire and electric coverage for what it is worth. Focus Band won't be triggered normally, but will on bastiodon's weaknesses and with low kick (turning the extra WC into less of a liability).
Thoughts? If that isn't enough I can come up with other suggestions. Just be polite when answering.
EDIT
OK sooooo...
giving 24h before wrapping this up and starting implementatiion considering upgrade and armor fossil above. Say your peace now or shuddap for all eternity.
I will rethink this and propose something more offense. But it will be a some more offensive with +1atk on it regardless. Maybe copy all the items that got a mini-expert belt effect
EDIT
We were tinkering around another more offensive idea for armor fossil:
(ignoring wording. It will be prettier on implementation)
Armor Fossil: +1 Atk. +2WC. Sturdy acts like Focus Band on top of normal effects.
extra wc is to boost heavy slam. Physical attack only misses fire and electric coverage for what it is worth. Focus Band won't be triggered normally, but will on bastiodon's weaknesses and with low kick (turning the extra WC into less of a liability).
Thoughts? If that isn't enough I can come up with other suggestions. Just be polite when answering.
EDIT
OK sooooo...
giving 24h before wrapping this up and starting implementatiion considering upgrade and armor fossil above. Say your peace now or shuddap for all eternity.
This discussion has been going on for almost two months now, it was staged to decide which items needed work and then said work was done to them. Please do not backtrack to something relevant at the beginning of the discussion at this point. The question is about Armour Fossil, the answer is yes finalise it then move on. And regardless, definite no to that ridiculous Abomasnow suggestion
Basically: discuss Amour Fossil if you believe it is still not good enough (hint: it is good enough) then we will close this and move on.
Basically: discuss Amour Fossil if you believe it is still not good enough (hint: it is good enough) then we will close this and move on.
- Mawilite will cost 10CC yeah
- Not opening that particular door. deepseashit are evo items so they work. Lucky Punch (to the best of my knowledge, which is small as far as ingame is concerned) isn't so giving it to blissey is like giving light ball to raichu, which was denied more than once I think. since blissey's item is viable now it doesn't need another. Also the comparison is eh since Evio Dusclops has way better stats than noir and only like 3 less moves and it still worse more often than not, as it isn't as reliable (since knock off and lack of offensive presence).
- Mega Abomasnow is better than regular abomasnow so I don't get it? 100/5/4/5/4 are nice stats and I personally prefer it then 100/5/3/5/3 +1stab (which equal to like +0.67 atk/spa when using stabs) and vulnerability to knock off which is like everywhere. Yeah aboma still has iffy typing, but there is not much I can do in that regard. Mega Tyranitar has insane stats and is still less used than spinda thanks to horrid typing. There is not much that can be done for it. Also Also not stupidhail no no no. Finally the only megamons boosted are the ones whose stats aren't better than of your every day regular mon (see Manectric/houndoom/Pidgeot's 3/3/5/3/fast stats + not-that-good abilities) or that have repeated abilities (and sceptile, but unburden is hardly adequate compensation for that lovely extra ice weakness as it doesn't make any difference). 100/5/4/5/4 is still pretty great stats overall with a kickass ability to boot.
- Not opening that particular door. deepseashit are evo items so they work. Lucky Punch (to the best of my knowledge, which is small as far as ingame is concerned) isn't so giving it to blissey is like giving light ball to raichu, which was denied more than once I think. since blissey's item is viable now it doesn't need another. Also the comparison is eh since Evio Dusclops has way better stats than noir and only like 3 less moves and it still worse more often than not, as it isn't as reliable (since knock off and lack of offensive presence).
- Mega Abomasnow is better than regular abomasnow so I don't get it? 100/5/4/5/4 are nice stats and I personally prefer it then 100/5/3/5/3 +1stab (which equal to like +0.67 atk/spa when using stabs) and vulnerability to knock off which is like everywhere. Yeah aboma still has iffy typing, but there is not much I can do in that regard. Mega Tyranitar has insane stats and is still less used than spinda thanks to horrid typing. There is not much that can be done for it. Also Also not stupidhail no no no. Finally the only megamons boosted are the ones whose stats aren't better than of your every day regular mon (see Manectric/houndoom/Pidgeot's 3/3/5/3/fast stats + not-that-good abilities) or that have repeated abilities (and sceptile, but unburden is hardly adequate compensation for that lovely extra ice weakness as it doesn't make any difference). 100/5/4/5/4 is still pretty great stats overall with a kickass ability to boot.
Err...one thing I just noticed. I believe our list of items to look at included the Protector, but looking at the list above it seems we forgot to work on it at all. Given that Eviolite Rhydon is superior in pretty much every way, I think the item does warrant a buff. Looking at this list, we did agree to work on it.
Apologies in advance if we did decide it was okay as is and I just missed it.
EDIT: In fact by the looks of things we didn't look at most of the stuff in the Other Items category...why is that?
Frosty said:
Apologies in advance if we did decide it was okay as is and I just missed it.
EDIT: In fact by the looks of things we didn't look at most of the stuff in the Other Items category...why is that?
Last edited:
I forgot to put "are fine" after odd keystone. Notice that there is a "." after Reaper Cloth. So Protector isn't on list of items to be checked (just check the bullet point list on that same post).
That being said, we can probably revisit Protector if your feeling is shared by others. But I agree with deadfox081 in the sense that we should end this, implement the changes and then deal with other items on a case-by-case basis via feedback thread. Or else we will have many items waiting forever for the resolution of one.
the 24h time ends in 2 hours. Last call for complaints before someone starts prettying up descriptions for implementation.
That being said, we can probably revisit Protector if your feeling is shared by others. But I agree with deadfox081 in the sense that we should end this, implement the changes and then deal with other items on a case-by-case basis via feedback thread. Or else we will have many items waiting forever for the resolution of one.
the 24h time ends in 2 hours. Last call for complaints before someone starts prettying up descriptions for implementation.
Rhyperior w/ Protector isn't outclassed, Protector + Solid Rock allows Rhyperior to take less damage from SE Attacks (1.5 to 2.25 less) than Eviolite Rhydon. Yes Rhydon is better at taking neutral hits, but Rhyperior is better at taking SE hits, which is what either will be taking 90% of the time since their typing gives a plethora of weaknesses. Not to mention, Rhyperior is less crippled by Knock Off relative to Rhydon.
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