^You have to admit that it's a pretty significant instance, though. Tyranitar is a big threat after all.
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Sigilyph
- Thread starter Colonel M
- Start date
I've used Sigilyph and it was.. underwhelming, to say the least. Mine is the standard set, but even after one Cosmic Power, he still dies to nearly anything and can't force anything out. He's slow (163 Speed at level 50, whereas Base 100s are at 168 or so), so he also gets hit often before even getting to set up.
Why isn't there a Stored Power+Cosmic Power/Calm Mind set in the OP? It's one of THE most popular variants, even if it does have big flaws.
I think that the cosmic power/stored power set is gimmicky. It looks great on paper, but without special attack boosts or a life orb, stored power isn't going to do much, even off 305 special attack. Calm mind sets are way better.
This thing is like the new clefable. 4x fighting resist + 97 speed + magic guard + insane movepool is amazing. I love that it gets roost as well. It wouldn't be at all useful without this one move.
Also, I'd suggest:
[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psycho Shock / Stored Power
move 3: Hidden Power: Fighting
move 4: Air Slash / Energy Ball / Shadow Ball
ability: Magic Guard
item: Life Orb
nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
Why the hell would you use charge beam? You can't set up on ground types, you don't get a special defense boost, and the boost you do get isn't consistent. Also, stored power is obligatory on any psychic typed calm minder that learns it.
I'd also suggest a defensive calm mind set:
[SET]
name: Defensive Calm Minder
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psycho Shock / Stored Power
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Fire / Air Slash
move 4: Roost
ability: Magic Guard
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Bold
EVs: -- HP | -- Def | 240 Spe
Psychic / Flying coverage can't get past steels normally, but you might be able to muscle past with +4 stored power. Ferrothorn lacking gyro ball is setup fodder for this sigilyph, and a boosted air slash has a decent chance of getting past it with flinches (magic guard blocks it's leech seed recovery too.)
290 speed for base 95s. HP & defense EVs should achieve maximum bulk. I don't know what to run, but I'm trying out 204 HP / 64 Def right now. CAn someone please link me to Xact's defense applet thing while I'm at it please?
This thing is like the new clefable. 4x fighting resist + 97 speed + magic guard + insane movepool is amazing. I love that it gets roost as well. It wouldn't be at all useful without this one move.
Also, I'd suggest:
[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psycho Shock / Stored Power
move 3: Hidden Power: Fighting
move 4: Air Slash / Energy Ball / Shadow Ball
ability: Magic Guard
item: Life Orb
nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
Why the hell would you use charge beam? You can't set up on ground types, you don't get a special defense boost, and the boost you do get isn't consistent. Also, stored power is obligatory on any psychic typed calm minder that learns it.
I'd also suggest a defensive calm mind set:
[SET]
name: Defensive Calm Minder
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psycho Shock / Stored Power
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Fire / Air Slash
move 4: Roost
ability: Magic Guard
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Bold
EVs: -- HP | -- Def | 240 Spe
Psychic / Flying coverage can't get past steels normally, but you might be able to muscle past with +4 stored power. Ferrothorn lacking gyro ball is setup fodder for this sigilyph, and a boosted air slash has a decent chance of getting past it with flinches (magic guard blocks it's leech seed recovery too.)
290 speed for base 95s. HP & defense EVs should achieve maximum bulk. I don't know what to run, but I'm trying out 204 HP / 64 Def right now. CAn someone please link me to Xact's defense applet thing while I'm at it please?
What EVs do you run?
Timid, 252Spe/252HP/4Def.
I've always had pretty good success using Sigilyph. I use Smeargle @ white herb to Baton Pass a shell smash and sometimes a coil also to him. Heres the set I run:
Sigilyph @Flame orb
Magic Guard
Modest Nature
252 spa, 252 spe, 4 hp
Stored Power
Psycho Shift
Shadow Ball
HP Fire/Ice/Dragon
Yeah, I've had lots of fun sweeping teams with him. Shadow ball to take care of Reuniclus, Hp whatever your team needs to get coverage.
Sigilyph @Flame orb
Magic Guard
Modest Nature
252 spa, 252 spe, 4 hp
Stored Power
Psycho Shift
Shadow Ball
HP Fire/Ice/Dragon
Yeah, I've had lots of fun sweeping teams with him. Shadow ball to take care of Reuniclus, Hp whatever your team needs to get coverage.
He learns Ice beam.
A note for everyone. Stop using cosmic power. Stop attempting to set up on offensive pokemon. Use calm mind over cosmic power. Use a flame orb and run psycho shift.
Stored power from +6/+6 Sigilyph vs. 252/0 Jirachi: 70.5% - 83.2%
Stored Power from CP Sigilyph vs. the same jirachi: 17.6% - 20.8%
Stored Power from +2/+2 Sigilyph vs. 252/0 Gliscor: 79.1% - 93.2%
Stored Power from CP Sigilyph vs. 252/0 Gliscor: 39.8% - 46.9%
Stored Power from +2/+2 Sigilyph vs. 120/136 Concrete Eldurr: 137% - 161.2%
Stored Power from CP Sigilyph vs. 120/136 Conkeldurr: 73.5% - 87.9%
Stored Power from +6/+6 Sigilyph vs. 252/0 Latias: 125.3% - 147.5%
CP Sigilyph vs. 252/0 Latias: 31.3% - 37.1%
Cosmic Power Sigilyph just isn't worth it anymore. Calm Mind Sigilyph all the way. Come in on a set up pokemon or physical threat to force a switch or cripple with a burn, then calm mind from there. Only strong special attackers will threaten you before you get to +2/+3. From there, you sweep. Why use CP Sigilyph when Calm Mind sigilyph ohkos Vaporeon? If you REALLY want to run the inferior Cosmic Power, then feel free to ditch psycho shift for another moveslot. Or run a life orb.
You're running max speed for no reason. What sigilyph will be setting up on, he outspeeds anyway. Unless you're running Calm Mind or Ice Beam, then you don't need to outspeed Gliscor either.
Why would you run another move over Psycho Shift, when the whole point of the Cosmic Power set is to make yourself an 'unbreakable' wall which can abuse Stored Power+Burn Shift?
Well, the only good one that I have is Timid, and I usually just max Speed, so I might just forget Psycho Shift and Cosmic Power for CM and Ice Beam, and use a bulky CM set.
Because as others have already said in the thread, it's underwhelming and could be better. I would stick to psycho shift when running calm mind; I just wouldn't bother with it if running cosmic power. I can't recall the last time a tyranitar actually switched into me to get burned. And the last time I bothered with CP+Psycho Shift+Stored Power, I was phased out by a ninetales I failed to kill after a +5/+5.
Maybe it's good in UU? I haven't tested it there, but it could be a superstar with less offensive threats to worry about. It definitely shouldn't be anywhere near OU.
I think this takes the top fanboy award this gen. I always hear about how it's some sort of unkillable beast while nothing could be further from the truth.
I think this takes the top fanboy award this gen. I always hear about how it's some sort of unkillable beast while nothing could be further from the truth.
Top fanboy award? What, have you been visiting tvtropes or something? Bad players who attempt to setup against SD Excadrill shouldn't count.
Nobody has been talking about sigil in UU. I hope it drops to NU so I can use it there. Then again, nobody plays NU at all.
Nobody has been talking about sigil in UU. I hope it drops to NU so I can use it there. Then again, nobody plays NU at all.
I thought about using my OU Sigilyph (the cosmic power/stored power and flame orb combo--although, alphatron, you've just convinced me to switch to a calm mind variant), but I quickly learned that the current UU climate isn't very hospitable to it: between Sun and Hail teams, Sigilyph faces fire Pokemon it can't burn and who slaughter it with their sun-boosted attacks or special-attacking ice Pokemon who don't care about a burn and kill you with Blizzard (or, in Kyurem's case, with anything). Add to that the ubiquitous Chansey, the occasional Heracross, and the odd Spiritomb or Umbreon, and it doesn't bode well for this strange bird.
I was thinking, then, of switching from a Flame Orb to a Toxic Orb, with a more even defensive EV spread. Toxic would help it stall out Chansey, Spiritomb, Umbreon, and Deoxys-D, while giving fire- and ice-types more trouble than a burn if they switch in. It would leave Sigilyph more vulnerable to Registeel and Eviolite Gligar, but they don't appear too common right now (and I'm not sure if they can do much to it, anyway).
Just put the EVs in bulk instead of speed. Bulky CM can't do ANYTHING against T-tar, and is outclassed by like, everything, especially reuniclus.
The Cosmic Power variant can be really annoying by constantly spamming Roost. It's actually quite a good pokemon in it's own right.
Now that this poke is UU, what kind of set's can this guy use (consider no jirachi/ferro/tyranitar/reuinclus/etc...), the cosmic power set is as annoying as it has always been, and this is a pretty great stop to heracross and can set-up on him or other walls, calm mind is probably another powerful treath
The thing is, the Calm Mind set is NOT supposed to be used like the cosmic power set is supposed to. The calm mind set is harder to set up with, but almost impossible to wall and can only be taken down by strong special attackers before you get to +2 or +3.
Both sets are stopped by tyranitar. I'm not sure why CP Sigil would stay in on him anyway. You're pushing your luck by trying to outstall either a high chance to crit attack, or an attack that will probably lower your defense boosts. If you see T-tar. Just burn him and get out of there.
In the meantime, a healthy bold 252/252 sigil can tank a hit from an unboosted garchomp and burn him in return. Same for Excadrill.
In my experience, while CP Sigilyph is easier to set up with and harder to kill, it getsa countered by WAY too much for it to be worth it. The bulky CM set is superior.
Both sets are stopped by tyranitar. I'm not sure why CP Sigil would stay in on him anyway. You're pushing your luck by trying to outstall either a high chance to crit attack, or an attack that will probably lower your defense boosts. If you see T-tar. Just burn him and get out of there.
In the meantime, a healthy bold 252/252 sigil can tank a hit from an unboosted garchomp and burn him in return. Same for Excadrill.
In my experience, while CP Sigilyph is easier to set up with and harder to kill, it getsa countered by WAY too much for it to be worth it. The bulky CM set is superior.
The main argument I have against Cosmic Power is that Sigilyph is basically a crit magnet. And when it's going to be fending off Stone Edges, that's not particularly great. Burn instantly halves the physical damage output of the opponent, so you have the Special defense to beef up. You're not just doing that, you're turning it into an attacker too, and with a move that snowballs in power from just one use of Calm Mind, it's doing some huge damage that not even textbook resists can last against forever. Fire types and Guts users pose problems with Burn Shifting, but as chance has it the vast majority of them will not wanting to be switching in to Siggy. Basically, 'Psycho Shift - Calm Mind - Stored Power' forms such a neat and effective little package of moves that Cosmic Power just seems worse
I think people need to come off the idea that Sigilyph is a "crit magnet". Any defensively orientated Pokemon, especially those that set up, are in danger of being critted. It's the price they pay for soaking up repeated hits. I would also argue that Sigilyph has more easily exploitable weaknesses than Rock (for a start, if Ttar comes in it's going to pick Crunch over SE 99% of the time) and factoring in SE accuracy + the chance of it critting, its still pretty low.
Sigilyph being a "crit magnet" is one of these misnomers that someone mentions and suddenly it becomes gospel. Like people referring to Water as a "typing" (ITS A TYPE PEOPLE.... this irks me so).
It's basically a description of Murphy's Law, i.e. if anything can go wrong, it will.
Sigilyph has to soak up a bunch of attacks, and in the process he CAN get criticalraped by something. I have used CM Sigilyph for a long long time before I got tired and swapped to Reuniclus, and I can attest to the number of sweeps I was denied because I got lolraped by either Psyshock or a critical hit.
The guy you're replying to has made threads such as "this is wat i think shud b band" which includes "steel types shud b band cuz there a GOOD TYPE!!", and a thread of "how pokemon is like poker".
It's an obvious troll. Just ignore him and move on.
As I've said in the usage stats thread, Sigilyph is still very frail even with one CP or after it Burned the opposition. I must've been unlucky and have fought against CBTar with it, because it still OHKO'd after a Burn - which reminds me, can Mixtar OHKO with Ice Beam against +1 Sigilyph? I'd assume that it can, but I'm not sure where to go to do calculations.
