Signature Moves [Submission Stage - (Mega) Charizard (X and Y)]

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venusaur-mega.gif

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll (Thick Fat)
EVs: something balky
Bold / Calm Nature
- Strange Seed
- Protect
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power Fire

Strange Seed is a pseudo Toxic and Leech Seed all rolled into one with the huge bonus in "toxifying" Steel-types. Leech Seed already couldn't hit Grass-types so there's no loss there, plus Venusaur has Poison STAB to hit any. HP Fire gets a SE hit on things like Ferrothorn that would otherwise hard wall this set. Protect doubles as HP replenishment and "toxic" damage all in one, putting the opponent one turn closer to fainting and buying you a turn to recover health.

The drawback of using Strange Seed is its rate of recovery/HP damage, which needs at least three turns to harm the target as much as Leech Seed, and most targets switch before then. However, it should be used to put a timer on the foe, something normal Leech Seed doesn't do. Losing 12.5% of your HP per turn is annoying, but there are Pokemon that can offset that loss with Leftovers and a good recovery move once in a while. Strange Seed takes that off the table - the opponent will faint eventually, and staying in longer just heals up Venusaur even more. This trait alone makes it a reliable wincon under the right circumstances and your opponent would have to answer this question: Can you beat it 1v1 without a Flying or Psychic attack? If not, they must preserve their Flying and Psychic Pokemon at all costs or fall to the STRANGE SEED.
 
The other deal with Strange Seed is that it makes Mega Venusaur less of setup bait for non-Grass-type Pokemon that rely on setting up to do damage. It will be a mind game whether Venusaur goes for Strange Seed or not and the safe play it to attack it with your SD Talonflame instead of expecting a switch out. You can still set up on it if you expect a switch, Strange Seed just adds much more risk to it.
 
Announcement + Submission Phase
charmander.gif
charmeleon.gif

Charmander and Charmeleon!

Submit your moves! Find the format in the OP!
 
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Name: Conflagration
Type: Fire
Base Power: 65
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 25 (max 40)
Category: Special
Secondary Effects: Functions identically to Knock Off; if the opponent has a removable item, the item is "incinerated" (Knocked Off) and the move gains a 50% buff in power.
Move it Replaces: Incinerate
Description: We all saw how powerful Knock Off became under this mechanic; now, Charizards will have a strong special version. While less consequential for Charizard Mega-X, Y variants could see this as an alternate Fire-type STAB to Fire Blast thanks to its immense utility and solid power under sun.

Explanation: "It breathes fire of such great heat that it melts anything". 'nuff said.
 
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Name: Melt-Down
Type: Fire
Base Power: 70
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 20 (max 32)
Category: Special
Secondary Effects: Super effective against Rock-type Pokemon. 10% chance to burn the target. Equivalent to Freeze-Dry
Move it Replaces: Flame Burst
Description: This move is meant to boost Mega Charizard Y's niche in the metagame, which is throwing around high powered Fire-type attacks. Rock-types such as Tyranitar, Aerodactyl and Diancie won't be able to switch in as safely anymore, and force Charizard to retreat and take another round of Stealth Rock damage. Also, Charizard won't have to rely on the inaccurate Focus Blast to do any damage to its nemesis Tyranitar. It will still have to run Earthquake and Dragon Pulse as coverage though, and can still be revenge killed by all of the previously mentioned.

Explanation: "It spits fire that is hot enough to melt boulders.".
 
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Name: Adrenaline Flame
Type: Fire
Base Power: --
Accuracy: --
PP: 20 (Max 32)
Category: Status
Secondary Effects: Boosts Attack, Special Attack, and Speed by 1 stage each.
Move it Replaces: Dragon Dance
Description: This move is basically a better Dragon Dance. It improves Charizard-Y significantly, letting it's ridiculously powerful attacks deal even more damage, and making it much more difficult to revenge kill. It even gets its Earthquake boosted to the point where even uninvested, negative nature variants can OHKO standard Heatran at +1. Charizard X also sees slight improvements, as this paves the way for potential mixed sets to get passed common counters- for instance, Slowbro doesn't like eating a +1 Dragon Pulse.

Explanation: Charmander:
-The flame that burns at the tip of its tail is an indication of its emotions. The flame wavers when Charmander is enjoying itself. If the Pokémon becomes enraged, the flame burns fiercely.
-The flame on its tail shows the strength of its life force. If it is weak, the flame also burns weakly.

Charmeleon:
-Without pity, its sharp claws destroy foes. If it encounters a strong enemy, it becomes agitated, and the flame on its tail flares with a bluish white color.
 
Name: Wildfire
Type: Fire
Base Power: 120
Accuracy: 50 %
PP: 5 (max 8)
Category: Special
Secondary Effects: Never misses in sunlight, 30% chance to confuse and/or burn.
Move it Replaces: Inferno
Description: This move is essentially a Fire type equivalent to Hurricane with 20% less accuracy outside of Sun and less PP in exchange for an additional possible secondary effect and more base power.
This move makes Charizard Y an even more incredible wallbreaker with the potential to cheese past typical checks in exchange for being incredibly unreliable once the Sun runs out or is taken away and abysmal PP. So you'll have to choose between long term consistency vs being ridiculous short term, and considering how SR weak Zard is there is definitely an opportunity cost to using this seemingly broken move which depends greatly on always having the sun up (implying you'll be forced to switch once it runs out) compared to something like Flamethrower.
 
Name: Fiery Influx
Type: Fire
Base Power: 95
Accuracy: 100
PP: 10
Catagory: Special
Secondary Effect: none
Move it Replaces: Flamethrower
Targeting: Hits adjacent foes. Its basically a better Heat Wave.
Description: The user spews a wave of fire that can damage multiple targets,

Explanation: This is a Heat Wave with the same base power, no burn chance, and DOESN'T MISS! Anyone who has been involved with any doubles metagame can attest to how much Heat Wave misses despite its 95% accuracy. It is also a stronger Flamethrower in singles with fewer PP but no Fire Blast miss chance. You will need to decide if you want Fire Blast's power or Fiery Influx's reliability in singles. In doubles, alwayse use this > Heat Wave, its just better. This does nothing for zard x. Flavor-wise, if Charizard can cause the nuclear flare that is Blast Burn, it can do this too. Since it is comming from a pre-evo, it is only 95 BP.

Edit: changed to 10 PP because 5 was silly for a move under 100 BP with no other effect.
 
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Voting time
Name: Conflagration
Type: Fire
Base Power: 65
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 25 (max 40)
Category: Special
Secondary Effects: Functions identically to Knock Off; if the opponent has a removable item, the item is "incinerated" (Knocked Off) and the move gains a 50% buff in power.
Move it Replaces: Incinerate
Description: We all saw how powerful Knock Off became under this mechanic; now, Charizards will have a strong special version. While less consequential for Charizard Mega-X, Y variants could see this as an alternate Fire-type STAB to Fire Blast thanks to its immense utility and solid power under sun.

Explanation: "It breathes fire of such great heat that it melts anything". 'nuff said.
Name: Melt-Down
Type: Fire
Base Power: 70
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 20 (max 32)
Category: Special
Secondary Effects: Super effective against Rock-type Pokemon. 10% chance to burn the target. Equivalent to Freeze-Dry
Move it Replaces: Flame Burst
Description: This move is meant to boost Mega Charizard Y's niche in the metagame, which is throwing around high powered Fire-type attacks. Rock-types such as Tyranitar, Aerodactyl and Diancie won't be able to switch in as safely anymore, and force Charizard to retreat and take another round of Stealth Rock damage. Also, Charizard won't have to rely on the inaccurate Focus Blast to do any damage to its nemesis Tyranitar. It will still have to run Earthquake and Dragon Pulse as coverage though, and can still be revenge killed by all of the previously mentioned.

Explanation: "It spits fire that is hot enough to melt boulders.".
Name: Adrenaline Flame
Type: Fire
Base Power: --
Accuracy: --
PP: 20 (Max 32)
Category: Status
Secondary Effects: Boosts Attack, Special Attack, and Speed by 1 stage each.
Move it Replaces: Dragon Dance
Description: This move is basically a better Dragon Dance. It improves Charizard-Y significantly, letting it's ridiculously powerful attacks deal even more damage, and making it much more difficult to revenge kill. It even gets its Earthquake boosted to the point where even uninvested, negative nature variants can OHKO standard Heatran at +1. Charizard X also sees slight improvements, as this paves the way for potential mixed sets to get passed common counters- for instance, Slowbro doesn't like eating a +1 Dragon Pulse.

Explanation: Charmander:
-The flame that burns at the tip of its tail is an indication of its emotions. The flame wavers when Charmander is enjoying itself. If the Pokémon becomes enraged, the flame burns fiercely.
-The flame on its tail shows the strength of its life force. If it is weak, the flame also burns weakly.

Charmeleon:
-Without pity, its sharp claws destroy foes. If it encounters a strong enemy, it becomes agitated, and the flame on its tail flares with a bluish white color.
Name: Wildfire
Type: Fire
Base Power: 120
Accuracy: 50 %
PP: 5 (max 8)
Category: Special
Secondary Effects: Never misses in sunlight, 30% chance to confuse and/or burn.
Move it Replaces: Inferno
Description: This move is essentially a Fire type equivalent to Hurricane with 20% less accuracy outside of Sun and less PP in exchange for an additional possible secondary effect and more base power.
This move makes Charizard Y an even more incredible wallbreaker with the potential to cheese past typical checks in exchange for being incredibly unreliable once the Sun runs out or is taken away and abysmal PP. So you'll have to choose between long term consistency vs being ridiculous short term, and considering how SR weak Zard is there is definitely an opportunity cost to using this seemingly broken move which depends greatly on always having the sun up (implying you'll be forced to switch once it runs out) compared to something like Flamethrower.
Name: Fiery Influx
Type: Fire
Base Power: 95
Accuracy: 100
PP: 10
Catagory: Special
Secondary Effect: none
Move it Replaces: Flamethrower
Targeting: Hits adjacent foes. Its basically a better Heat Wave.
Description: The user spews a wave of fire that can damage multiple targets,

Explanation: This is a Heat Wave with the same base power, no burn chance, and DOESN'T MISS! Anyone who has been involved with any doubles metagame can attest to how much Heat Wave misses despite its 95% accuracy. It is also a stronger Flamethrower in singles with fewer PP but no Fire Blast miss chance. You will need to decide if you want Fire Blast's power or Fiery Influx's reliability in singles. In doubles, alwayse use this > Heat Wave, its just better. This does nothing for zard x. Flavor-wise, if Charizard can cause the nuclear flare that is Blast Burn, it can do this too. Since it is comming from a pre-evo, it is only 95 BP.
Vote away!

Also, this has no effect on Charizard, because Charizard will be gaining a different move due to its type differentiation.
 
Darkerones

Since this is meant for Charmander, the only thing that matters here is power in sun. Sun boosted Solar Power STAB Fire Attacks are it's only niche in LC, and Wildfire fits the bill perfectly.
Though I still don't understand how Charizard wouldn't have access to the signature move. Would it simply forget it upon evolution?
 
I think what he meant was, it has no effect on Charizard gaining a new move, as it gains a different secondary type upon evolution, whereas the Saur line had a constant typing.

In any case, going for Darkones' submission. Close tie between his and Cretacerus', but ultimately firepower (no pun intended) matters more for a wallbreaker like Charizard as opposed to scorching rock types.
 
Well, Wildfire's role is quite straightforward in LC. Under sun, there isn't really anything that can switch into Charmander that isn't immune to Fire, and even those can be OHKOed with a predicted Ancient Power.

Here's a testimonial of Choice Specs Wildfire's power against some of the bulkiest fire resists that will be encountered in the game. Note that the move comes with no drawbacks in any form, will never miss, and still has that double 30% chance of causing status.
vs. Bulky Attacker Chinchou
200+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charmander Wildfire vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou in Sun: 28-33 (112 - 132%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs. Defensive Archen
200+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charmander Wildfire vs. 236 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Archen in Sun: 19-23 (76 - 92%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs. Tank Munchlax
200+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charmander Wildfire vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Thick Fat Munchlax in Sun: 19-24 (63.3 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs. SS Tirtouga
200+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charmander Wildfire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tirtouga in Sun: 15-18 (71.4 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Click to expand...

Of course, a Charmander can run an effective Choice Scarf set as well, in order to outspeed every unboosted Pokemon in the metagame.
vs. Bulky Attacker Chinchou
200+ SpA Choice Scarf Solar Power Charmander Wildfire vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou in Sun: 19-23 (76 - 92%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs. Defensive Archen
200+ SpA Choice Scarf Solar Power Charmander Wildfire vs. 236 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Archen in Sun: 12-15 (48 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs. Tank Munchlax
200+ SpA Choice Scarf Solar Power Charmander Wildfire vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Thick Fat Munchlax in Sun: 15-18 (50 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs. SS Tirtouga
200+ SpA Choice Scarf Solar Power Charmander Wildfire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tirtouga in Sun: 10-12 (47.6 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Click to expand...

While these calculations are very impressive, it should still be noted that Charmander requires a lot of team support to perform well, most importantly Drought support and free switch ins. It also faces a lot of competition from more flexible and reliable Fire types such as Ponyta and Houndour, meaning that Charmander will by no means become the next top thread in LC.
However, it is still really good at what it does, and Wildfire complements its role as a nuke perfectly.


Btw, I voted for Wildfire under the assumption that it will have no influence on Mega Charizard Y in OU, so I hope it won't suddenly start throwing around incredibly overpowered Wildfires as well, lol.
 
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Cretacerus said:
Btw, I voted for Wildfire under the assumption that it will have no influence on Mega Charizard Y in OU, so I hope it won't suddenly start throwing around incredibly overpowered Wildfires as well, lol.
Click to expand...
Well the submission post only lists Charmandar and Charmeleon, but unless the move is somehow forgotten upon evolution to Charizard, either Mega should have access to the move as well.
 
Eevee General said:
Well the submission post only lists Charmandar and Charmeleon, but unless the move is somehow forgotten upon evolution to Charizard, either Mega should have access to the move as well.
Click to expand...
Well, I was hoping that the signature move might somehow change to Charizard's once it evolves, similar to how it is on Kyurem.^^
 
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