Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)

Estronic

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Is it complex though? It's not "no A+B" it's just "no A" unless I'm not understanding correctly.
Just edited my above post. If I'm classifying incorrectly I apologize, but generally speaking banning moves will cause tiers below to ban the move as well, and keeping a move legal in a tier below a tier where it's not legal would be complex.
 
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Quick noob question, why is Zygarde rather than Thousand Arrows being suspected? Is TA not the source of its set versatility (and viability)? Its exclusive ability Power Construct was banned, why not just ban an exlcusive move too? Thx.
Simple - because there's more. Yes, Thousand Arrows is very relevant, but in the end that's not the problem. It's Thousand Arrows combined with Zygarde's traits, such as its ability to find setup opportunities fairly easily (and the ability to actually afford to only run Thousand Arrows unlike 10%), that got it a suspect test. Thousand Arrows does not "break" Zygarde - Zygarde "breaks" Thousand Arrows.

It's kind of King's Shield on Aegislash.

Power Construct was a different story, as Complete Zygarde was ridiculous on its own, and since you can't ban the form as it's not permanent, you ban the ability that triggers it.
 
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lyd

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quick heads-up about the Thousands Arrows discussion is that truly, the brokeness isn’t really on Thousand Arrows but on Zygarde itself. Sure Thousand Arrows is a major tool it uses, but Thousand Arrows is not the move that enables it to cheese past any check, it’s often quite the contrary. Regardless, Zygarde isn’t the only Pokémon that gets Thousand Arrows, Zygarde-10% gets it as well and it should be crystal clear that Zygarde-10% is far from broken in OU. So yeah, the main issue here is Zygarde, honestly, not Thousand Arrows.
 
Quick question, that may have a long asnwer, and also getting removed by mods: In case of Zygarde getting banned, what are good replacements for it? I already know that Tyranitar checks Heatran, but, what else?
 

lyd

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Quick question, that may have a long asnwer, and also getting removed by mods: In case of Zygarde getting banned, what are good replacements for it? I already know that Tyranitar checks Heatran, but, what else?
Garchomp, Gliscor, Mega Alakazam, Mega Latios, Mega Latias, Hydreigon, Tapu Fini, Gastrodon etc.

Even some shaky checks like Shed Shell Toxapex, Rotom-W, and Slowbro can work too when paired with offensive switch ins to Heatran.
 
quick heads-up about the Thousands Arrows discussion is that truly, the brokeness isn’t really on Thousand Arrows but on Zygarde itself. Sure Thousand Arrows is a major tool it uses, but Thousand Arrows is not the move that enables it to cheese past any check, it’s often quite the contrary. Regardless, Zygarde isn’t the only Pokémon that gets Thousand Arrows, Zygarde-10% gets it as well and it should be crystal clear that Zygarde-10% is far from broken in OU. So yeah, the main issue here is Zygarde, honestly, not Thousand Arrows.
I apologize for the tiering discussion in Q&A thread, this will be my last post on the topic. I think you're really, really downplaying Thousand Arrows here. TA is the thread that binds ALL Zygarde sets. Literally all of them. Show me a viable Zygarde set without TA . All the complaining about its limited pool of checks goes away the moment it can't hit Flying/Levitating mons with mono ground coverage. RU has a non-transitive Drought ban in place, if they wanted Thousand Arrows down there they could keep it for 10% no? The Arena Trap ban covers Trapinch... sometimes there's collateral damage. Did Gen 6 PU not ban chatter to preserve Chatot in the tier?

If the goal of this suspect is to maintain the specific ability to use TA on Zygarde 10 in OU that's fine I guess... I just feel like there's so few suspect tests that they should try and remove the least amount of cancerous stuff without breaking existing precedents and the uniqueness of TA presents exactly that opportunity...
 
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lyd

cactuaring
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I apologize for the tiering discussion in Q&A thread, this will be my last post on the topic. I think you're really, really downplaying Thousand Arrows here. TA is the thread that binds ALL Zygarde sets. Literally all of them. Show me a viable Zygarde set without TA . All the complaining about its limited pool of checks goes away the moment it can't hit Flying/Levitating mons with mono ground coverage. RU has a non-transitive Drought ban in place, if they wanted Thousand Arrows down there they could keep it for 10% no? Did Gen 6 PU not ban chatter to preserve Chatot in the tier?
I completely agree with that, Thousand Arrows is a fundamental tool of Zygarde and is what allows it to go from C- to A+, but that doesn’t mean Thousand Arrows is the broken part, Zygarde as a whole is. Banning moves or abilities isn’t often the best approach because the move or ability on it’s own is rarely broken. The main examples of an ability being banned for example, are for Shadow Tag and Arena Trap, which are uncompetitive by definition, or Power Construct, which is only banned as a formality to prohibit the use of Zygarde-C. As for the weather summoning abilities, I’m not experienced on low tiers enough to say for certain, but I believe the whole conjecture of an immediate weather is too strong for the tier, be it Ninetales or Vulpix setting it up. As for Chatter I believe it was banned last gen, wasn’t it? But the premise here was that the confusion aspect was uncompetitive because it created a coinflip, similar to the Swagger ban. All in all, Thousand Arrows isn’t inherently broken like the abilities or moves in question. Sure it bends the type chart but there are still two types that resist the move. Zygarde very likely wouldn’t be broken if it didn’t have a way to cheese through every check, in a scenario where it did have Thousand Arrows. Sure Thousand Arrows is part of the reason Zygarde is being suspect tested but it’s far from all of the reason. Hope I was clear, if you want any further clarifications on my stance on this matter feel free to VM me.
 
I don't think it's TA on its own that's busted, but rather TA + Glare (or Toxic to a lesser extent), because virtually nothing resists both at the same time. Glare can paralyse everything but Electric types and TA is always super-effective against them, so Zygarde can always freely press Glare without repercussion and paralyze something. Toxic is kind of the same but at least M-Scizor and M-Venusaur can switch in, though the latter will be hard-pressed to actually respond.

If Zygarde does get banned I hope it's on those grounds, rather than because it's "versatile".
 

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For playing wifi battles in the Smogon format, does my Pokemon need to be level 100 or are they good at 50?
We play our games on Pokemon Showdown! On there, all Pokemon are level 100 in the standard format. The Wi-Fi subforum can be located here.
 
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I have been working on a Sableye stall team, and have one open slot left. I need a check for Mawile, among other things, and I realize why people sometimes pass on Sableye for Mega Aggron; Mega Aggron would help my team check Mawile, banded Hoopa, and Kyurem-B. Is it crazy to have two megas, and just evolve one per battle as needed? I feel like the unevolved one will just do nothing productive the whole match though. I was thinking of instead just using a bulky steel type like Stakataka for Mawile, but it fails to check Kyurem-b.

tl;dr Is it viable to run Mega Sableye and Mega Aggron? Are there any substitutes, if even not as good ones, for Mega Aggron?
 

lyd

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I've looked around, and I'll ask here where to ask my question, because it's not simple. I want to know what I'm missing in the teambuilding process, by going through what I did with a team I made recently. It's not a good team or anything, so RMT seems inapp, but Battling 101 seems inapp as well. Idt I need a tutor, rather just 1 or 2 knowledgeable builders commenting on my process.
The “Trainer’s School” room on PS! is probably your best bet. Just drop a Pokepaste there and we’ll try our best to help :)
I have been working on a Sableye stall team, and have one open slot left. I need a check for Mawile, among other things, and I realize why people sometimes pass on Sableye for Mega Aggron; Mega Aggron would help my team check Mawile, banded Hoopa, and Kyurem-B. Is it crazy to have two megas, and just evolve one per battle as needed? I feel like the unevolved one will just do nothing productive the whole match though. I was thinking of instead just using a bulky steel type like Stakataka for Mawile, but it fails to check Kyurem-b.

tl;dr Is it viable to run Mega Sableye and Mega Aggron? Are there any substitutes, if even not as good ones, for Mega Aggron?
Two Megas seem really awful, ngl, but especially on Stall. Because like you said yourself, one of them will do nothing. So it’s basically like having two teams of 5 Pokémon, in a way. Considering the threats you listed though, I think Avalugg is probably your best bet. It checks Mega Mawile lacking Focus Punch and Iron Head and can also hold its own against Choice Band Hoopa-U and Subzero Slammer Kyurem-B.
 
The “Trainer’s School” room on PS! is probably your best bet. Just drop a Pokepaste there and we’ll try our best to help :)

Two Megas seem really awful, ngl, but especially on Stall. Because like you said yourself, one of them will do nothing. So it’s basically like having two teams of 5 Pokémon, in a way. Considering the threats you listed though, I think Avalugg is probably your best bet. It checks Mega Mawile lacking Focus Punch and Iron Head and can also hold its own against Choice Band Hoopa-U and Subzero Slammer Kyurem-B.
I actually love the idea of using Avalugg to check these threats, but it fails to check Mawile (unless I am missing something). They SD on the switch, then 2HKO with Play Rough:

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Avalugg: 277-327 (70.3 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And you fail to OHKO (and cannot outspeed to 2HKO first):

88 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 146-174 (55.3 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

Jordy

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I actually love the idea of using Avalugg to check these threats, but it fails to check Mawile (unless I am missing something). They SD on the switch, then 2HKO with Play Rough:

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Avalugg: 277-327 (70.3 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And you fail to OHKO (and cannot outspeed to 2HKO first):

88 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 146-174 (55.3 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Groundium Z is a pretty cool tech that stall teams usually can afford to run.
 
I have been working on a Sableye stall team, and have one open slot left. I need a check for Mawile, among other things, and I realize why people sometimes pass on Sableye for Mega Aggron; Mega Aggron would help my team check Mawile, banded Hoopa, and Kyurem-B. Is it crazy to have two megas, and just evolve one per battle as needed? I feel like the unevolved one will just do nothing productive the whole match though. I was thinking of instead just using a bulky steel type like Stakataka for Mawile, but it fails to check Kyurem-b.

tl;dr Is it viable to run Mega Sableye and Mega Aggron? Are there any substitutes, if even not as good ones, for Mega Aggron?
So I'm going to zag where most of the commentariat is zigging and say I think this idea has merit, and would be interested to see if could work on the right build. 2 megas is almost always an awful idea, and I think most players dismiss it out of hand for that reason.

However, in my experience playing with and playing against stall teams they rarely need all 6 mons in a given matchup. Rather the 6 mons are there to try to cover all the possible matchups. So I think if any archetype could get away with it it would be stall. Also base sableye isn't that bad with prankster tech, though base aggron is pretty bad especially if running a mega-set and not like banded rock helmet.

Anyways, it could still be a terrible idea, since you could get matchups like Mega-medicham + kyurem-black and mega-aggron needs a lot of support that constrains a build that is already pretty constrained. I just wanted to say that I think it could work, and I might play around with the team builder to see if I can cook up a double mega stall team.
 
Hey i have a question? Why are broken ass things sub uber/ psuedo pokemon in ou? The ultrabeast are broken AF (Cough cough Celesteela) Zygarde has a sub that cant be broken, Dont even get me started with a weakness policy item. That thing is ridiculous and is VERY easy to bait into.
 

david0895

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Hey i have a question? Why are broken ass things sub uber/ psuedo pokemon in ou? The ultrabeast are broken AF (Cough cough Celesteela) Zygarde has a sub that cant be broken, Dont even get me started with a weakness policy item. That thing is ridiculous and is VERY easy to bait into.
Zygarde is currently suspected, Celesteela and Kartana are the only two UB that are good, but they're not nearly broken
 
Hey i have a question? Why are broken ass things sub uber/ psuedo pokemon in ou? The ultrabeast are broken AF (Cough cough Celesteela) Zygarde has a sub that cant be broken, Dont even get me started with a weakness policy item. That thing is ridiculous and is VERY easy to bait into.
I'd like to add on David's post, and that is Ultra Beasts that are broken (Naganadel and Pheromosa) are already banned from OU. Aside from Celesteela and Kartana, other examples of viable Ultra Beasts are Blacephalon and Buzzwole. These Pokemon aren't broken, although they are quite annoying in some cases and should be prepared for. However, they are not without their checks, and none of them have yet to prove themselves to be worthy of being suspected.

(I calculate the damage by using the onsite set, however, I use the Specially Defensive spread for special threats and use the Physically defensive spread for physical threats)
Even if Celesteela has amazing 97/103/101 bulk, it's actually fairly easy to keep it in check. Celesteela is mainly used as a Fairy- and Psychic-type resist. Therefore, super effective moves or just powerful moves can actually threaten Celesteela. Fire-types like Heatran, Mega Charizard X and Y, Volcarona all take advantage of Celesteela to either set up or just throw off a powerful attack. Zapdos and Tapu Koko threaten it with a powerful Electric-type move, and the former is able to PP stall Leech Seed and heal off damage with Roost. Powerful attackers include stuff like Ash-Greninja (Transformed: 2HKO with Hydro Pump, 3HKO with Dark Pulse; Still regular: 3HKO with Hydro Pump, 4HKO with Dark Pulse), Mega Mawile (2HKO with Thunder Punch, 4HKO with Knock Off, and 2HKO with +2 Play Rough), Magnezone traps it and eliminates it with Specs Thunderbolt/Gigavolt Havoc, Mega Medicham (2HKO with Jolly HJK), and so on. It's also really susceptible to Knock Off, which gets rid of its Leftovers, and Leech Seed is rather RNG-based, since it can miss (unfortunately) and it's blocked by Grass-types like Tangrowth or Ferrothorn.

Kartana is actually a reason why I think Zapdos/Buzzwole are necessary on a stall team, being able to threaten all the Unaware users and easily getting a sweep. It's also a reason why Buzzwole and Mega Aggron (despite Mega Mawile being the Pokemon it checks, Aggron can actually take several Sacred Sword) is seen in stall teams. It's easily kept in check by powerful special moves, most notably Water Shuriken (assuming Greninja has tranformed into Ash-Greninja, which revenge kills Kartana if it's under 77.3%. Others include Tapu Koko's Thunderbolt, Ice Beam from Magearna, and basically any neutral or super effective (or even not very effective in Water Shuriken's case) can knock it out. Defensively, it can be played around with Heatran, Zapdos, Tangrowth, Torn-t, Celesteela, Mega Scizor, etc.

Blacephalon may seem amazing on paper, but actually it's kept in check notably by these 3 Pokemon: Greninja, Tyranitar, and Heatran. Of course, Chansey, Toxapex, and Kommo-o are also effective checks, but they're not as common as the first 3 checks. Heatran's natural bulk allows it to take any hit that's not Never-Ending Nightmare and KO Blacephalon with Earth Power while Greninja and Tyranitar both resist it's STAB moves and force it out with their powerful STAB moves. Chansey can take Shadow Ball and Never-Ending nightmare with ease, but it's used as setup fodder for SubCM Speed-boosting Blacephalon; Toxapex is quite a good check, since it can break Substitutes with Scald and Haze away Calm Mind boosts; Kommo-o is immune to Shadow Ball because of its ability Bulletproof (Never-Ending Nightmare can hit it tho), and resists Flamethrower. It can also phaze Blacephalon with Dragon Tail.

Buzzwole may seem terrible, having abysmal SpDef and low speed, but it's actually a great physical wall to several of the tier's most prominent physical attackers in Kartana, Zygarde, and Tapu Bulu. It's also able to check Crawdaunt, Mega Heracross, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Gyarados to a certain extent, which are all common threats to Balance/Stall. It's actually pretty threatening if not prepared for, since its movepool includes moves like Ice Punch, Leech Life, Drain Punch, Toxic, Earthquake and even Poison Jab.

If the Ultra Beasts are truly broken af, I think we would have had an suspect test for them a long time ago. But since the ones in the tier are actually still pretty much kept in check most of the time, they aren't really broken. Besides, I don't think Pokemon having the status of "Ultra Beasts" or "Psuedo Pokemon" really matters with what tier they belong to.
 
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when I Pick greninja with battle bond before entering a match in OU it says "greninja needs an ability" however protean greninja is fine.
Is battle bond banned to uber ?
 
when I Pick greninja with battle bond before entering a match in OU it says "greninja needs an ability" however protean greninja is fine.
Is battle bond banned to uber ?
Ash-Greninja isn't banned. There should be no problem with a Battle Bond Greninja, perhaps you should check your Import and see if anything has glitched there. It works perfectly fine for me.
 

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