Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)

[Ellicrum]

I just read "The Unviable Ubers: D-Rank" (an excellent text in passing) and it gave me an idea: could we test in Overused a "small Uber" per month?

Let me explain: the meta USUM in OU is probably the one that has changed the least compared to the previous one (the meta SM). Between XY and ORAS, we had 20 mega-evolution. Between BW and BW2, the geniuses, Kyurem and Keldeo have had new forms. By cons between SM and USUM, not much: 2 ultra-beasts (I do not count Naganadel), new defogers and some rare move tutors

This means that Landorus-T, tapus, Magearna, Toxapex, Greninja, UCs, or Zygarde will remain top-tier (from December 2016 to the end of 2019 probably, when we will be in the 8th generation). I do not dispute their power (and therefore their place in OU) but their excessive centralization in the meta makes the Overused 7G particularly repetitive and tiresome (even more so than in 6G, where we could still succeed with original teams or gimmicks ). You only have to see the large number of Borderlines: many excellent pokemons that are unusable in OU

What is a "little Uber"? It is these pokémons never played in Uber and which are below 3,5% of uses. I have been watching the Uber's uses since July 2017 (the "Marshadow meta") and I made a list of banned pokémons never used:
* Mega-Kangaskhan
* Blaziken
* Groudon
* Deoxys-N and Deoxys-D
* Palkia
* Darkrai
* Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fight, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Grass, Arceus-Ice, Arceus-Psychic and Arceus-Rock
* Reshiram and Zekrom
* Landorus
* Genesect
There are also pokemons played more often and that stayed some time in OU:
* Deoxys-S
* Aegislash
* Mega-Lucario
* Mega-Metagross
* Pheromosa
* Shadow Tag (I'm talking about Wobbuffet, Gothitelle with rest is way too strong)
Of course since the arrival of USUM and Necrozma (pending the uses), this list is likely to change a lot

In order to change a little the meta OU and explode existing patterns, we could try to introduce a "little Uber" (the duration of a week seems reasonable). If the latter is indeed too strong, it's quickban and we talk more. If, on the other hand, it happens to have a certain number of checks and counters that can contain it, this pokemon will be possibly suspect-test (and if the quorum is negative, it will be able to remain in Overused). This was done (somehow) in Undersused with Azumarill, Serperior and Scolipede. I even believe that Aegislash was still suspect-test in May 2015

Of course, Aegislash and Landorus (I do not count Power Construct) have already been quickbans at the beginning of SM. But it was at a time when he had a lot less mega-pokémons (it costs nothing to re-test). Sorry in any case for my bad English (I hope to be understandable)

 

[Jordy]

I just read "The Unviable Ubers: D-Rank" (an excellent text in passing) and it gave me an idea: could we test in Overused a "small Uber" per month?

Let me explain: the meta USUM in OU is probably the one that has changed the least compared to the previous one (the meta SM). Between XY and ORAS, we had 20 mega-evolution. Between BW and BW2, the geniuses, Kyurem and Keldeo have had new forms. By cons between SM and USUM, not much: 2 ultra-beasts (I do not count Naganadel), new defogers and some rare move tutors

This means that Landorus-T, tapus, Magearna, Toxapex, Greninja, UCs, or Zygarde will remain top-tier (from December 2016 to the end of 2019 probably, when we will be in the 8th generation). I do not dispute their power (and therefore their place in OU) but their excessive centralization in the meta makes the Overused 7G particularly repetitive and tiresome (even more so than in 6G, where we could still succeed with original teams or gimmicks ). You only have to see the large number of Borderlines: many excellent pokemons that are unusable in OU

What is a "little Uber"? It is these pokémons never played in Uber and which are below 3,5% of uses. I have been watching the Uber's uses since July 2017 (the "Marshadow meta") and I made a list of banned pokémons never used:
* Mega-Kangaskhan
* Blaziken
* Groudon
* Deoxys-N and Deoxys-D
* Palkia
* Darkrai
* Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fight, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Grass, Arceus-Ice, Arceus-Psychic and Arceus-Rock
* Reshiram and Zekrom
* Landorus
* Genesect
There are also pokemons played more often and that stayed some time in OU:
* Deoxys-S
* Aegislash
* Mega-Lucario
* Mega-Metagross
* Pheromosa
* Shadow Tag (I'm talking about Wobbuffet, Gothitelle with rest is way too strong)
Of course since the arrival of USUM and Necrozma (pending the uses), this list is likely to change a lot

In order to change a little the meta OU and explode existing patterns, we could try to introduce a "little Uber" (the duration of a week seems reasonable). If the latter is indeed too strong, it's quickban and we talk more. If, on the other hand, it happens to have a certain number of checks and counters that can contain it, this pokemon will be possibly suspect-test (and if the quorum is negative, it will be able to remain in Overused). This was done (somehow) in Undersused with Azumarill, Serperior and Scolipede. I even believe that Aegislash was still suspect-test in May 2015

Of course, Aegislash and Landorus (I do not count Power Construct) have already been quickbans at the beginning of SM. But it was at a time when he had a lot less mega-pokémons (it costs nothing to re-test). Sorry in any case for my bad English (I hope to be understandable)

Hey cool idea, but if we do this every week in a month this means the tier makes almost no progress at all and the unbanning of Pokemon that r clearly broken wont help with progressing the tier either, legit the only Pokemon i could see being somewhat balanced is darkrai and blaziken tho even then those mons r gay thanks to zmoves, id also like to point out that the unbanning of 1 arceus type and not the others would get to complex banning, which smogon tends to avoid.

 

[Leo]

I just read "The Unviable Ubers: D-Rank" (an excellent text in passing) and it gave me an idea: could we test in Overused a "small Uber" per month?

Let me explain: the meta USUM in OU is probably the one that has changed the least compared to the previous one (the meta SM). Between XY and ORAS, we had 20 mega-evolution. Between BW and BW2, the geniuses, Kyurem and Keldeo have had new forms. By cons between SM and USUM, not much: 2 ultra-beasts (I do not count Naganadel), new defogers and some rare move tutors

This means that Landorus-T, tapus, Magearna, Toxapex, Greninja, UCs, or Zygarde will remain top-tier (from December 2016 to the end of 2019 probably, when we will be in the 8th generation). I do not dispute their power (and therefore their place in OU) but their excessive centralization in the meta makes the Overused 7G particularly repetitive and tiresome (even more so than in 6G, where we could still succeed with original teams or gimmicks ). You only have to see the large number of Borderlines: many excellent pokemons that are unusable in OU

What is a "little Uber"? It is these pokémons never played in Uber and which are below 3,5% of uses. I have been watching the Uber's uses since July 2017 (the "Marshadow meta") and I made a list of banned pokémons never used:
* Mega-Kangaskhan
* Blaziken
* Groudon
* Deoxys-N and Deoxys-D
* Palkia
* Darkrai
* Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fight, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Grass, Arceus-Ice, Arceus-Psychic and Arceus-Rock
* Reshiram and Zekrom
* Landorus
* Genesect
There are also pokemons played more often and that stayed some time in OU:
* Deoxys-S
* Aegislash
* Mega-Lucario
* Mega-Metagross
* Pheromosa
* Shadow Tag (I'm talking about Wobbuffet, Gothitelle with rest is way too strong)
Of course since the arrival of USUM and Necrozma (pending the uses), this list is likely to change a lot

In order to change a little the meta OU and explode existing patterns, we could try to introduce a "little Uber" (the duration of a week seems reasonable). If the latter is indeed too strong, it's quickban and we talk more. If, on the other hand, it happens to have a certain number of checks and counters that can contain it, this pokemon will be possibly suspect-test (and if the quorum is negative, it will be able to remain in Overused). This was done (somehow) in Undersused with Azumarill, Serperior and Scolipede. I even believe that Aegislash was still suspect-test in May 2015

Of course, Aegislash and Landorus (I do not count Power Construct) have already been quickbans at the beginning of SM. But it was at a time when he had a lot less mega-pokémons (it costs nothing to re-test). Sorry in any case for my bad English (I hope to be understandable)

The biggest flaw in this mindset of a borderline-unviable uber being potentially balanced in ou (and therefore worth testing) lies in the fact that a mon's viability in ubers has very little relevance with its healthiness in the tier since the ubers environment is a lot different, so using a mon's placement in the ubers vr as an argument doesn't make too much sense. If you were to ask for a certain ubers mon to be tested you would need to have legitimate arguments as to why you don't think that mon would be broken. I don't think the council would consider introducing a clearly broken ubers mon into the tier for the sake of changing the tier a bit when arguably every single uber pokemon would be centralizing and would make the tier a lot less enjoyable after the initial hype ends. And I definitely don't agree with the argument of "we don't lose nothing by suspecting a couple of mons, if they're indeed broken then they stay ubers" because we actually do lose something: time. Spending several weeks in an unstable meta with broken ubers would not only hinder the meta's development but would also waste a lot of time. All in all, I think you can probably make an argument for 1, maybe even 2 ubers not being completely ridiculous but suspecting so many ubers for the sake of it isnt a good idea

 

[blergsid]

I just read "The Unviable Ubers: D-Rank" (an excellent text in passing) and it gave me an idea: could we test in Overused a "small Uber" per month?

Let me explain: the meta USUM in OU is probably the one that has changed the least compared to the previous one (the meta SM). Between XY and ORAS, we had 20 mega-evolution. Between BW and BW2, the geniuses, Kyurem and Keldeo have had new forms. By cons between SM and USUM, not much: 2 ultra-beasts (I do not count Naganadel), new defogers and some rare move tutors

This means that Landorus-T, tapus, Magearna, Toxapex, Greninja, UCs, or Zygarde will remain top-tier (from December 2016 to the end of 2019 probably, when we will be in the 8th generation). I do not dispute their power (and therefore their place in OU) but their excessive centralization in the meta makes the Overused 7G particularly repetitive and tiresome (even more so than in 6G, where we could still succeed with original teams or gimmicks ). You only have to see the large number of Borderlines: many excellent pokemons that are unusable in OU

What is a "little Uber"? It is these pokémons never played in Uber and which are below 3,5% of uses. I have been watching the Uber's uses since July 2017 (the "Marshadow meta") and I made a list of banned pokémons never used:
* Mega-Kangaskhan
* Blaziken
* Groudon
* Deoxys-N and Deoxys-D
* Palkia
* Darkrai
* Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fight, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Grass, Arceus-Ice, Arceus-Psychic and Arceus-Rock
* Reshiram and Zekrom
* Landorus
* Genesect
There are also pokemons played more often and that stayed some time in OU:
* Deoxys-S
* Aegislash
* Mega-Lucario
* Mega-Metagross
* Pheromosa
* Shadow Tag (I'm talking about Wobbuffet, Gothitelle with rest is way too strong)
Of course since the arrival of USUM and Necrozma (pending the uses), this list is likely to change a lot

In order to change a little the meta OU and explode existing patterns, we could try to introduce a "little Uber" (the duration of a week seems reasonable). If the latter is indeed too strong, it's quickban and we talk more. If, on the other hand, it happens to have a certain number of checks and counters that can contain it, this pokemon will be possibly suspect-test (and if the quorum is negative, it will be able to remain in Overused). This was done (somehow) in Undersused with Azumarill, Serperior and Scolipede. I even believe that Aegislash was still suspect-test in May 2015

Of course, Aegislash and Landorus (I do not count Power Construct) have already been quickbans at the beginning of SM. But it was at a time when he had a lot less mega-pokémons (it costs nothing to re-test). Sorry in any case for my bad English (I hope to be understandable)

The main problem with simply looking at their usage is that you miss everything about the meta that made them useless in the first place. Ex. regular Groudon is never used because primal Groudon exists and is a perfect upgrade in every way, but is Pdon wasn't in ubers, regular don would likely see a lot of play, and it would be 110% too good for OU. Thats basically true for all of them, megaskhan doesn't hit as hard as other megas in the tier but still much more than all of OU, blaziken has too low attack for all the bulky attackers in ubers that ohko it and and live anything he has to throw at them, deoxys would ohko all of OU with lele and defence was filthy when it was tried in OU once. all of these mons are too busted for OU and have been this whole time. You bring up the unbans from UU, but the difference is that more low-tier mons got new tools in USUM than high-tier mons, and most UU bans are much less broken than the OU bans, which are 99% of the time quickbans or supermajorities that are way too good for the tier. Eveything in Ubers is too good for OU and there is nothing that could possibly drop any time soon.

 

[Meliodafu7]

I just read "The Unviable Ubers: D-Rank" (an excellent text in passing) and it gave me an idea: could we test in Overused a "small Uber" per month?

Let me explain: the meta USUM in OU is probably the one that has changed the least compared to the previous one (the meta SM). Between XY and ORAS, we had 20 mega-evolution. Between BW and BW2, the geniuses, Kyurem and Keldeo have had new forms. By cons between SM and USUM, not much: 2 ultra-beasts (I do not count Naganadel), new defogers and some rare move tutors

This means that Landorus-T, tapus, Magearna, Toxapex, Greninja, UCs, or Zygarde will remain top-tier (from December 2016 to the end of 2019 probably, when we will be in the 8th generation). I do not dispute their power (and therefore their place in OU) but their excessive centralization in the meta makes the Overused 7G particularly repetitive and tiresome (even more so than in 6G, where we could still succeed with original teams or gimmicks ). You only have to see the large number of Borderlines: many excellent pokemons that are unusable in OU

What is a "little Uber"? It is these pokémons never played in Uber and which are below 3,5% of uses. I have been watching the Uber's uses since July 2017 (the "Marshadow meta") and I made a list of banned pokémons never used:
* Mega-Kangaskhan
* Blaziken
* Groudon
* Deoxys-N and Deoxys-D
* Palkia
* Darkrai
* Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fight, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Grass, Arceus-Ice, Arceus-Psychic and Arceus-Rock
* Reshiram and Zekrom
* Landorus
* Genesect
There are also pokemons played more often and that stayed some time in OU:
* Deoxys-S
* Aegislash
* Mega-Lucario
* Mega-Metagross
* Pheromosa
* Shadow Tag (I'm talking about Wobbuffet, Gothitelle with rest is way too strong)
Of course since the arrival of USUM and Necrozma (pending the uses), this list is likely to change a lot

In order to change a little the meta OU and explode existing patterns, we could try to introduce a "little Uber" (the duration of a week seems reasonable). If the latter is indeed too strong, it's quickban and we talk more. If, on the other hand, it happens to have a certain number of checks and counters that can contain it, this pokemon will be possibly suspect-test (and if the quorum is negative, it will be able to remain in Overused). This was done (somehow) in Undersused with Azumarill, Serperior and Scolipede. I even believe that Aegislash was still suspect-test in May 2015

Of course, Aegislash and Landorus (I do not count Power Construct) have already been quickbans at the beginning of SM. But it was at a time when he had a lot less mega-pokémons (it costs nothing to re-test). Sorry in any case for my bad English (I hope to be understandable)

I can see some of Ubers mon in OU without problem, like regular Blaziken and Darkrai, maybe Landorus can see play, but we have to test them in order to see if they broke the meta or something like that, but mons like Reshiram, Palkia or Zekrom are too strong for OU.

 

[Jordy]

Im in that niche scenario where I am running scarf Tapu Koko. Should I run Modest or Timid?

Naive, this allows u to outspeed Choice Scarf Greninja and Brave Bird will be able to OHKO volcarona, u also dont need full investment, just go down till u hit 378 with koko and put the rest in attack.

 

[Scuba Diver]

I realize Infernape and Lucario are both unviable in the Pex meta but I’m fascinated by mons with mixed spreads and nasty plot / sd, is there any way to make either work? (I realize the answer is likely a no for Lucario)

 

[Jordy]

I realize Infernape and Lucario are both unviable in the Pex meta but I’m fascinated by mons with mixed spreads and nasty plot / sd, is there any way to make either work? (I realize the answer is likely a no for Lucario)

I believe there's this live from njnp and ll where they use Lucario, u might want to watch that maybe that can give u an idea on lucario. Infernape will (probably) be harder to use but the only set i can see having some type of merit would be like LO mixed? maybe sd z-eq or smthn like that. U could also try mixed with gk to potentially break stall if that is a concern.

 

[Scuba Diver]

I believe there's this live from njnp and ll where they use Lucario, u might want to watch that maybe that can give u an idea on lucario. Infernape will (probably) be harder to use but the only set i can see having some type of merit would be like LO mixed? maybe sd z-eq or smthn like that. U could also try mixed with gk to potentially break stall if that is a concern.

Cool, I was thinking a groundium lure may work. Is vaccum wave worth running as kartana insurance or not worth it?

 

[Jordy]

Cool, I was thinking a groundium lure may work. Is vaccum wave worth running as kartana insurance or not worth it?

Depends how weak ur team is to it.

 

[OldAmberPlays]

In what cases Liquidation is better than Waterfall? Talking about OU-relevant mons ou niche ones, like Azumarill, Mega Sharpedo and Kabutops in rain

 

[Flame from Heaven]

In what cases Liquidation is better than Waterfall? Talking about OU-relevant mons ou niche ones, like Azumarill and Kabutops in rain

Unless if there are some specific kos that liquidation nets, it comes down to personal preference; whether you prefer flinch hax or slightly more power and defense drop hax.

 

[Jordy]

In what cases Liquidation is better than Waterfall? Talking about OU-relevant mons ou niche ones, like Azumarill and Kabutops in rain

The 5BP power difference rly doesnt matter, it only depends on, due u want to have a chance to flinch hax ur opponent (which is imo superior bc it can be done at any time in the game while def drops r only useful when they happen on switch ins) or defense drops.

 

[viol and bass]

id also like to point out that the unbanning of 1 arceus type and not the others would get to complex banning, which smogon tends to avoid.

Not disputing the rest of your post, but this isn't true. It wouldn't be a complex ban because different Arceus forms are considered different Pokemon. While species clause defines a mon by its dex number, for tiering purposes this isn't the case and we instead tier mons seperately when there is a major difference between them. IIRC this can be an ability change, a typing change, and probably a major stat change as well. Movepool may qualify. Point is, Arceus forms are tiered separately.

That said, every last Arceus form would likely be broken as shit in OU. Look at its stats and movepool.

 

[Kamen Galaxy]

I just read "The Unviable Ubers: D-Rank" (an excellent text in passing) and it gave me an idea: could we test in Overused a "small Uber" per month?

Let me explain: the meta USUM in OU is probably the one that has changed the least compared to the previous one (the meta SM). Between XY and ORAS, we had 20 mega-evolution. Between BW and BW2, the geniuses, Kyurem and Keldeo have had new forms. By cons between SM and USUM, not much: 2 ultra-beasts (I do not count Naganadel), new defogers and some rare move tutors

This means that Landorus-T, tapus, Magearna, Toxapex, Greninja, UCs, or Zygarde will remain top-tier (from December 2016 to the end of 2019 probably, when we will be in the 8th generation). I do not dispute their power (and therefore their place in OU) but their excessive centralization in the meta makes the Overused 7G particularly repetitive and tiresome (even more so than in 6G, where we could still succeed with original teams or gimmicks ). You only have to see the large number of Borderlines: many excellent pokemons that are unusable in OU

What is a "little Uber"? It is these pokémons never played in Uber and which are below 3,5% of uses. I have been watching the Uber's uses since July 2017 (the "Marshadow meta") and I made a list of banned pokémons never used:
* Mega-Kangaskhan
* Blaziken
* Groudon
* Deoxys-N and Deoxys-D
* Palkia
* Darkrai
* Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fight, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Grass, Arceus-Ice, Arceus-Psychic and Arceus-Rock
* Reshiram and Zekrom
* Landorus
* Genesect
There are also pokemons played more often and that stayed some time in OU:
* Deoxys-S
* Aegislash
* Mega-Lucario
* Mega-Metagross
* Pheromosa
* Shadow Tag (I'm talking about Wobbuffet, Gothitelle with rest is way too strong)
Of course since the arrival of USUM and Necrozma (pending the uses), this list is likely to change a lot

In order to change a little the meta OU and explode existing patterns, we could try to introduce a "little Uber" (the duration of a week seems reasonable). If the latter is indeed too strong, it's quickban and we talk more. If, on the other hand, it happens to have a certain number of checks and counters that can contain it, this pokemon will be possibly suspect-test (and if the quorum is negative, it will be able to remain in Overused). This was done (somehow) in Undersused with Azumarill, Serperior and Scolipede. I even believe that Aegislash was still suspect-test in May 2015

Of course, Aegislash and Landorus (I do not count Power Construct) have already been quickbans at the beginning of SM. But it was at a time when he had a lot less mega-pokémons (it costs nothing to re-test). Sorry in any case for my bad English (I hope to be understandable)

I guess this could possibly be done once every 2 months, and the ones most likely to make it down are Mega Kanga, Aegi, normal Blaziken, and possibly genesect. All others are potshots at best.

 

[Jordy]

I guess this could possibly be done once every 2 months, and the ones most likely to make it down are Mega Kanga, Aegi, normal Blaziken, and possibly genesect. All others are potshots at best.

Yeah, no, every Pokemon that u listed has some way to be broken. Mega Kangaskhan, despite being nerfed, can still run a bulky set with WishTect, SToss, and -filler, paired with a Pursuit trapper this mon is practically unbeatable due to its good natural bulk and lack of weaknesses. Aegislash, Aegislash should NEVER be unbanned as long as Kings Shield exists, it forces way too many 50/50's and forces Pokemon like Tyranitar to run EQ to fucking beat it, it can also adapt to pretty much ever answer that might be common at the time like it did in X and Y to beat Mandibuzz, it adapted to the Mandibuzz meta and started to run SubToxic. Blaziken might seem balanced but there's this mechanic called 'Z-moves' dk if u have ever heard of that. And then we have Genesect, oh lord, this Pokemon has way too many sets lol, ranging from scarf to mixed life orb to even shift gear, how would a mon this diverse be good for the meta???

 

[Scuba Diver]

In what cases Liquidation is better than Waterfall? Talking about OU-relevant mons ou niche ones, like Azumarill and Kabutops in rain

Flinc

Yeah, no, every Pokemon that u listed has some way to be broken. Mega Kangaskhan, despite being nerfed, can still run a bulky set with WishTect, SToss, and -filler, paired with a Pursuit trapper this mon is practically unbeatable due to its good natural bulk and lack of weaknesses. Aegislash, Aegislash should NEVER be unbanned as long as Kings Shield exists, it forces way too many 50/50's and forces Pokemon like Tyranitar to run EQ to fucking beat it, it can also adapt to pretty much ever answer that might be common at the time like it did in X and Y to beat Mandibuzz, it adapted to the Mandibuzz meta and started to run SubToxic. Blaziken might seem balanced but there's this mechanic called 'Z-moves' dk if u have ever heard of that. And then we have Genesect, oh lord, this Pokemon has way too many sets lol, ranging from scarf to mixed life orb to even shift gear, how would a mon this diverse be good for the meta???

Can you explain the thought process behind banning Aegi instead of KS? Is it too slippery a slope? I understand smeargle could use it and not be broken (and aegi could still run a bunch of sets like sub toxic and crumbler which may still be too much) but isn’t there precedent for just banning moves in Gen 6? Wasn’t chatter and dynamic punch banned in PU (or nu, I don’t remember)?

We already have move bans in the form of Z-move item bans (mewnium and Komo in UU), even if you consider them item bans you’re also banning a move (it’s not either/or, it’s both)

People always criticize this argument by saying “what about kyogre without water moves” but I don’t see it as very different as saying that Komo-o isn’t broken but Clangorous Soulblaze is (in UU), let’s keep the good and scrap the bad...

 

[Jordy]

Can you explain the thought process behind banning Aegi instead of KS? Is it too slippery a slope? I understand smeargle could use it and not be broken (and aegi could still run a bunch of sets like sub toxic and crumbler which may still be too much) but isn’t there precedent for just banning moves in Gen 6? Wasn’t chatter and dynamic punch banned in PU (or nu, I don’t remember)?

As far as i know there has never been such a ban as "a move being banned", and indeed it would be too slippery slope.

We already have move bans in the form of Z-move item bans (mewnium and Komo in UU), even if you consider them item bans you’re also banning a move (it’s not either/or, it’s both)

Banning z-move items should not be considered as an actual move ban as this is simply not a logical mindset.

People always criticize this argument by saying “what about kyogre without water moves” but I don’t see it as very different as saying that Komo-o isn’t broken but Clangorous Soulblaze is, let’s keep the good and scrap the bad...

That mindset is absolutely retarded, as i said, banning a z-move item is different then banning a move.

 

[blergsid]

Honestly I think with the whole complex bans debate, the main problem would be new players being like "oh I can use this guy but I can't use any of these abilities or moves on him or..." and unless it's really simple and obvious rules like no shadow tag or no using x pokemon, it could be really off putting to new players.

 

[Scuba Diver]

As far as i know there has never been such a ban as "a move being banned", and indeed it would be too slippery slope.

Banning z-move items should not be considered as an actual move ban as this is simply not a logical mindset.

That mindset is absolutely retarded, as i said, banning a z-move item is different then banning a move.

Retarded seems a bit strong of a word, no? Gen 6 PU banned Chatter without banning chatot...

It’s really quite disingenuous to say that banning the item isn’t banning the move, it literally is both.

 

[earl]

Retarded seems a bit strong of a word, no? Gen 6 PU banned Chatter without banning chatot...

It’s really quite disingenuous to say that banning the item isn’t banning the move, it literally is both.

Banning King’s Shield on Aegi is dumb, we shouldn’t nerf Pokémon down to the power level we want, we should ban it and get it over with. It would be like banning Dragonium on Naganadel, why not just ban the thing

 

[Siggu]

I have a very strong feeling these posts are probably going to be deleted, but just to make it clear: King's Shield is not banned because it does not break anything.

King's Shield does not make Aegislash look broken, it's the other way around. Aegislash's Stance Change and perfectly-convenient stat distribution make King's Shield look broken.

Of course it looks broken when it's the signature move of a Pokemon with one of the best defensive typings in the game, an ability that gives it 60/150/150 defenses after using that move, and a bad base 60 Speed that ensures it will change to its frail and powerful Blade forme after being hit in its much bulkier Shield forme, but that's Aegislash's fault, not King's Shield's.

 

[Colonel M]

I won't delete any posts, but yeah I will agree that the discussion with the suspects is kind of overcrowding at the moment where this is for general simple questions and simple answers. Not to say we won't answer some of these questions with suspect tests and the like, but I feel that everyone here has given some answers to the question(s) and it's starting to overcrowd other questions.

For other suspect questions, especially dropping Uber threats to OU, Leo demonstrates why this likely will not happen anytime soon in this post.

 

[comma]

This question goes out to a moderator. Will there ever be an updated version of the checks and counters compendium? That version is old af (back when greninja was s rank) and it was a great resource. Someone should remake the thread or add it to the role compendium.

 

[Colonel M]

This question goes out to a moderator. Will there ever be an updated version of the checks and counters compendium? That version is old af (back when greninja was s rank) and it was a great resource. Someone should remake the thread or add it to the role compendium.

This was being worked on by another user. I mentioned to him that he is free to add other users to it. I was planning to discuss with him at the beginning of the year, but perhaps I should do it sooner.

Tl;Dr- yes and kind of no at this current moment.