avalugg is pretty decent, and also gets rapid spin.
True, this does sound pretty reliable. Toxapex is probably the best mon for this strategy, since taking 50% on rotom sucks. I don't like using toxapex or dugtrio though :/
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Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread
- Thread starter Jordy
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avalugg is pretty decent, and also gets rapid spin.
True, this does sound pretty reliable. Toxapex is probably the best mon for this strategy, since taking 50% on rotom sucks. I don't like using toxapex or dugtrio though :/
Rotom Heat can switch in for free 3-4 times depending on if it is banded or scarfed. Give it boots so you don't have to worry about rocks. The only thing you have to worry about is flinches since Dmax is banned and if they run something off-meta like superpower.
It can only switch in once safely vs Scarf. It gets 3HKOd and outran no matter what by Icicle Crash, meaning that the first time you can check it and any future times you are just going to get taken out. It is not an answer to Band at all as it gets 2HKOd unless it is running a very out-of-the-ordinary spread -- Scarf RotomH can check Band Darm once, but Darm will just switch out and RotomH will take >50%.
Darm really lacks reliable counterplay.
You cannot expect a viability list to be updated for a metagame that is not even playable on PS yet. You can wait for it to be updated and/or the viability rankings to be posted as we mentioned in this thread and the viability list thread, then we will have more information when it is actually possible to play the metagame consistently post-Dynamax.
So I understand that Darmanitan-Galar is more than likely the next in line for a tiering decision, which yeah, it makes sense all things considered. But there's something I am curious about should it come to this after the meta's been given some time to settle: What about suspect testing Gorilla Tactics instead?
Gorilla Tactics is the obvious root of all of the issues with Darmanitan, the built-in Choice Band boost is what allows it to shred through teams like butter. At the same time, it's Darm's signature ability, meaning nothing else would be compromised in the event of the ability being banned unlike, say, Speed Boost Blaziken. There's also precedent for banning broken abilities over the Pokemon themselves, the most notable examples being Arena Trap, Shadow Tag and Power Construct.
Without Gorilla Tactics, Darmanitan-Galar is relegated to Zen Mode, a potentially still powerful but ultimately much less consistent option that would no longer have the benefit of getting sweeps off of switches driven by people expecting the Choice Scarf/Band Gorilla Tactics set. The drop in immediate power would also be noticeable, letting things defensively check/counter it much easier.
Considering there is precedent for banning broken abilities over the Pokemon unlike with signature moves, I see no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater via a flat ban on Darmanitan assuming it is still found to be busted once the meta settles.
Gorilla Tactics is the obvious root of all of the issues with Darmanitan, the built-in Choice Band boost is what allows it to shred through teams like butter. At the same time, it's Darm's signature ability, meaning nothing else would be compromised in the event of the ability being banned unlike, say, Speed Boost Blaziken. There's also precedent for banning broken abilities over the Pokemon themselves, the most notable examples being Arena Trap, Shadow Tag and Power Construct.
Without Gorilla Tactics, Darmanitan-Galar is relegated to Zen Mode, a potentially still powerful but ultimately much less consistent option that would no longer have the benefit of getting sweeps off of switches driven by people expecting the Choice Scarf/Band Gorilla Tactics set. The drop in immediate power would also be noticeable, letting things defensively check/counter it much easier.
Considering there is precedent for banning broken abilities over the Pokemon unlike with signature moves, I see no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater via a flat ban on Darmanitan assuming it is still found to be busted once the meta settles.
I won't comment on the question specifically, but this is a question more suited to PM a council member to gauge their interest on.
Generally we want to avoid complex bans as much as possible, but they can be considered under very extreme circumstances. So I don't want to say the words "no" flat out because maybe a council member could be convinced. Just hinting at "doubtful", that's all.
Dynamax ban is fresh, so people are on a fairly even playing field. We have a few threads on viability of mons at the moment, Speed Tiers, OU Checklist, etc. I'd start there and just watch / play a few games from there.
I would advise reading the metagame discussion thread over the next week or two in order to get a feel for hot-button issues, taking a look at the viability list (which will soon turn into a formal viability ranking) to see what people are using, and taking teams from samples or the bazaar or RMT subforum and playing games firsthand on PS in order to get a feel for the tier yourself!
He's not proposing a complex ban, he's proposing a simple ban on the ability Gorilla Tactics rather than Darmanitan as a Pokemon.
Fair enough, but this would still be a question more aimed towards the council than a general public q/a.
We are banning the Pokemon if we ban anything as far as I am concerned. Next question
Excuse me if you don't want further discussion on this in here, but some clarification would be nice. Banning the ability Gorilla Tactics is just as complex as banning the Pokemon Darmanitan-Galar. Zen Mode Darmanitan-Galar isn't broken in OU as far as we can tell which seems to indicate that Gorilla Tactics is the broken factor. It's an odd decision to me to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Why does Galarian Darmanitan not have a set on its analysis for Sub Belly Drum Zen Mode? On a related note, is there currently a reservation thread for Dex analyses? I didn't see one in the C&C section so I assume it doesn't exist yet, but since there are already existing gen 8 analyses I am unsure of what's going on with them.
Scarf and Band are the major sets for G-Darm to use, hence SubDrum gets pushed into a set that isnt used often. Preview analyses only focus on one or two of the best sets, so Scarf and Band were naturally the options.
There are no immediate plans for full analyses. We'll probably have to wait for the mini analyses to be done first.
That would be a question more suited to PS Subforum and not necessarily here. Showdown is a place where many test their VGC teams and the like, so maybe Nintendo has turned a blind eye to it since it helps promote their events indirectly.
That would make sense, I'll check out the subforum and ask again there :) Thanks for the quick response
Or Rock Slide (which G-Darm has access to)
Rock Slide really isn't the best on Darmanitan. Flare Blitz hits the likes of Avalugg and can do more to Corviknight whereas Earthquake is nigh mandatory for mostly Toxapex but also Vaporeon and Milotic. Plus, like Finchinator already said, Rotom-H really isn't a check in the long run, as U-turn and Icicle Crash are more than enough to chip it down.
I expect that Nintendo currently doesn't consider PS to really be "in competition" with any of their products. I don't think there are many people out there who *would* buy Sword and Shield (or whatever the newest Pokemon game might be) but instead choose not to because they could instead play Showdown. I think there are plenty of Pokemon players who only play on Showdown but I think they are mostly players who wouldn't buy the main games even if showdown were unavailable. Additionally, they may see the game as a little bit of free advertising, as players may "get hooked" or buy the console games out of a desire to enjoy the more casual side of Pokemon.
Additionally, although the Pokemon themselves are owned by Nintendo in terms of name and likeness (and many Pokemon names are not trademarked) I don't think it is currently possible to trademark video-game mechanics so it would be possible to make a Pokemon-less Pokemon Showdown where the names/images are changed but is mechanically identical.
That I ultimately think would be the most harmful outcome for Gamefreak as it leads to a future where someone has a functioning Pokemon simulator that is A: better than the in-game battles and B: does not pay any lip service at all to Pokémon and the designs which all have corresponding merch.
There's also the sobering possibility that someone makes a competitive monster-battling/trading/breeding franchise which is better-designed than Pokemon and also has a built-in fanbase of former Pokemon Showdown players, because it used to be Showdown.
If I had to guess the higher ups at Nintendo/Gamefreak probably looked at sales before/after Showdown launched and decided it was best to just let sleeping dogs lie and not make their lives any harder.
Unfortunately I don't think we will EVER see an official answer to this question unless it comes from Zarel and the answer is "Actually they did care and they shut down Showdown lol"
What rotom formes are viable right now? The viability list mentions rotom-c, and i'm curious what the niche of that would be
Additionally, i'm wondering what kind of sets we're seeing right now for rotom formes. Are they defensive, or running scarf or something? Last i checked, it doesnt get pain split anymore, so that kind of sucks for defensive sets.
I seem to remember something about a niche chestoresto set for rotom-w back when i used to play, not sure how feasible that is nowadays.
edit: also, what kind of mons can seismitoad check? (assuming its not only used as a rain sweeper)
Additionally, i'm wondering what kind of sets we're seeing right now for rotom formes. Are they defensive, or running scarf or something? Last i checked, it doesnt get pain split anymore, so that kind of sucks for defensive sets.
I seem to remember something about a niche chestoresto set for rotom-w back when i used to play, not sure how feasible that is nowadays.
edit: also, what kind of mons can seismitoad check? (assuming its not only used as a rain sweeper)
Wash, Heat, and Mow are fairly viable. Things might change a bit after Dynamax, but we'll have to see.
* All 3 lost Pain Split and Defog, but they now have access to Nasty Plot which made them an interesting tech choice during Dynamax meta.
* Heat now has access to Heavy-Duty Boots, which makes its Stealth Rock weakness less of a burden.
* Wash and Heat can soft check Galarian Darmanitan, but they can't take a lot of damage in the process - especially Choice Scarf Rotoms.
As for Seismitoad it's a Water and Electric immunity with access to Stealth Rock. It's a common check to Dracovish, which eats bulkier threats with STAB Fischious Rend.
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I disagree; banning an individual Pokemon is generally ideal when compared to any alternative when going through both precedent and our tiering guidelines. Preservation is not prioritized when it is within the confines of an individual Pokemon. However, I will voice these concerns to the council at the appropriate time in order to get a better perspective and we will act accordingly if and when appropriate.