There are only Pelipper and Politoad, but you probably wanto to go with Pelipper since it has recovery, u-turn, defog and hurricane
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Thanks, but is Politoed still a viable option?
You could still use it, it has no SR weakness and it has encore
To add onto Katy's great answer, I would like to offer you some potential options that it runs to try and stand out.
As she said, it faces a lot of difficulty in the tier currently due to the infestation of Landorus-T, Garchomp, Swampert, and other good Ground-types that stone wall its onslaught, as an Electric-type breaker it is fairly outclassed, and as speed control, Pheromosa and Choice Scarf Spectrier wholly trump it.
The best way to use it, in my opinion, is as a utility pivot, utilizing Knock Off and Toxic as a way to capitalize on the Ground-types it invites in. Unlike its competition, its access to Knock Off, Toxic, and its notable speed tier over Dragapult does give it a niche. Knock Off is a phenomenal move in the current metagame, able to strip many Pokemon of their valuable items, and it is a great way to pick off passive healing from Swampert/Landorus-T, as well as Choice items that could enable revenge killing or more effective breaking from opponents. Toxic is also a great option, which lays out a lot of pressure against the many Ground-types in the metagame which hate its recoil in the long term, especially since all barring Hippowdon lack reliable recovery.
Of course, Volt Switch is always a good option as well, and in tandem with HDB it can help to decently facilitate Pokemon such as Pheromosa and Melmetal that appreciate smoother switch-in opportunities against targets such as Rillaboom throughout the course of the game.
Politoed with Drizzle is always cool, and as stated, its Stealth Rock neutrality/access to Encore are neat standouts to give it more setting opportunities. Though, unlike Pelipper, its lack of momentum, lack of reliable recovery, and lack of a resistance/immunity to Fighting-types and Ground-types respectively hamper Rain teams' much needed momentum to keep up the pressure throughout the course of the match. Politoed also just doesn't synergize with Rain cores as well as Pelipper does. Though, you can certainly give it a try as a backup Rain setter!
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Does rain have any consistent counterplay to Specs Kyurem besisdes running a random chansey ? I was just using it and the second I landed focus blast on ferro it was gg.
Probably not switching ferro into kyurem is a good counterplay.
Jokes aside they normally just maintain some sort of offensive pressure/momentum to keep things like that in check unless they misplayed or switch into some fat mon that sucks up all their momentum.
Here's an odd question: With Zygarde banned, would it be possible to copy the Choice Band set with 10% Zygarde? You wouldn't be losing any power since the two formes have the same attack stat, but does 10%'s massively reduced bulk make it unsuitable for this role?
I’ve seen it a couple times on some ladder runs I would use it on a more offense oriented team. It’s actually okay in practice. It’s job isnt really taking hits as opposed to dishing it out.
You can use Choice Band Zygarde 10% yes but not really in the same way at all, you will need to use it more carefully and support it a lot more because of its pathetic bulk despite its amazing Speed, which gives it less opportunities to come in and spam its moves than Zygarde. Considering how frail it is you would give it Jolly over Adamant to outspeed things you don't want to be outsped by, like Latios and Garchomp, and maybe Iron Tail over Glare if you want to hit Clefable for super effective damage. You will use it as more of a hit and run Pokemon as opposed to one that takes hits and dishes them back harder due to its flaws.
Hope this helped!
Is there a reason some players are running Slowking over Bro in this metagame?
Slowking has a significantly better matchup against Latios, Nidoking, and Tapu Lele matchup. Slowbro is still largely considered better though, as its physical bulk is more relevant to check Pokemon like Melmetal, Landorus-T, and Blaziken.
What's a good overall check to most Magearna setup sets? My team can sorta handle specs or AV but it seems to lack some offensive pressure and invites mag to set up for free and 6-0 me way too often.
I was thinking Ferrothorn or even something dumb like AV swampert (with the benefit that it'd block volt switch from other mag sets), but then i'd be stuck with an AV pert lol. Or (CB?) Cinderace from a more offensive standpoint. Am I missing anything good that checks those sets at bay relatively easily?
I was thinking Ferrothorn or even something dumb like AV swampert (with the benefit that it'd block volt switch from other mag sets), but then i'd be stuck with an AV pert lol. Or (CB?) Cinderace from a more offensive standpoint. Am I missing anything good that checks those sets at bay relatively easily?
Unfortunately it’s dependent on what variant of boosting you’re facing. Melmetal can muscle through non Iron Defense variants if healthy, Scarf Lando can revenge kill with some chip and only if the Mag isnt Timid after boost or holding Shuca, Chansey/Blissey non Stored Power sets. Ditto cause Ditto. There’s other different checks but they’re based on which Mag you’re facing so not sure if there’s one that’s relatively easy.
So, when exactly did Future Sight become good? It was buffed a couple gens ago, but has only really gotten notice recently. What changed?
Teleport on Slowbro finally provided Future Sight a way to be chained, in a sense. Before that, getting future sight set up consistently was pretty finnicky and inconsistent, as you'd have to hard switch around in an attempt to make use of the delayed attack. Nowadays, ideally you just sight into port and now your breaker is set up to click its powerful stab+Fsight.
Another big thing is Bro's longevity is fantastic in comparison to, say, Jirachi, due to its 2 forms of reliable recovery, an amazing Water typing combined with great defensive stats, and useful resists provided by its secondary Psychic typing.
The icing on the cake to all this is boots, which remove the main penalty for spamming pivoting moves freely aka hazards, pretty much giving Future Sight all the conditions needed to become a relatively consistent form of breaker support.
There are a lot of resources you can refer to if you ever need tips on how to improve your game; in fact, this thread is among them!
The Metagame Discussion Thread
This is where you can find a bit more of a back and forth formal discussion regarding the tier. You'll often see a myriad of discussion points, but this is probably one of the most consistent resources as far as understanding metagame threats, and what people consider to be strong in the tier. I definitely suggest reading through this thread, particularly the more recent pages.
Short Questions Short Answers (you are here)
This thread is for asking more informal questions on metagame trends/concepts you're less acquainted with and want to understand a bit better more directly. I definitely think this thread is among the best resources when it comes to learning specific tidbits of information on the metagame in a easy-to-digest, easy-going space.
Personal Viability Rankings
Another more informal medium, but a very good thread to look at to get an idea of what the general public considers to be strong, good, decent, or subpar in the tier. I visit by here from time to time to learn what the playerbase thinks of certain threats at certain times, and I definitely suggest coming by here if you want to quickly learn what people consider to be viable in the tier. Sometimes, the VRs come with explanations, which is even better!
Good Cores
This thread is fantastic for understanding common cores and how said cores are comprised. I come by here very often for teambuilding ideas, and I definitely think it's a cool place to learn the importance and makeups of common cores in the tier.
Team Bazaar
This thread is probably one of my favorite and most highly recommended resources, as it is an incredible place for beginners who want to learn the fundamentals of battle without having to make a quality team right out the gate. It's also good for learning what Pokemon are common in the tier, as well as what kinds of sets certain teams run. Obviously, that's not to say all the bazaar teams are reliable teams, but I definitely like stopping by here if I just want to play and am not in the mindset to build.
OU Discord
I highly suggest joining this Discord server if you haven't already, as it yields the incredible learning utility of all of these threads combined into one, easy, live chatroom. It's super easy to jump in, and it's a really lovely, easygoing crowd. If you want to drop your teams here for rating, or want to ask a question to people quickly and get an even quicker answer, or just chat about the metagame, this is your place.
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I hope this helps!
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Rain seems surprisingly difficult to build well. It feels like due to having two slots devoted to 
and 
off the bat harshly condenses the other slots on my team. Maybe that’s just my ignorance showing, but I often find that I’ve made glaring omissions even after several revisions to a rain team where I just don’t have that problem building standard balance, bulky offense, or hyper offense teams.
What are some Pokémon I should be using on rain to adapt those last four slots to condense down a lot of the threat management necessary to make a good team in this meta?
and off the bat harshly condenses the other slots on my team. Maybe that’s just my ignorance showing, but I often find that I’ve made glaring omissions even after several revisions to a rain team where I just don’t have that problem building standard balance, bulky offense, or hyper offense teams.What are some Pokémon I should be using on rain to adapt those last four slots to condense down a lot of the threat management necessary to make a good team in this meta?
Speaking from personal experience here, but I'd say that playing in general is a lot more helpful than reading up on resources. I'm not saying that they're useless, but being able to experience the meta yourself is generally a lot more useful since you can form your own opinion and really is a lot more enjoyable than reading up about it, especially if you're not really invested in the game.
Rain seems surprisingly difficult to build well. It feels like due to having two slots devoted to
What are some Pokémon I should be using on rain to adapt those last four slots to condense down a lot of the threat management necessary to make a good team in this meta?
Barraskewda and Pelipper are obviously pretty good mainstays on rain cores; however, Rain teams are inherently hyper offense, meaning that you want to generally cover as many offensive bases as possible and focus on maintaining momentum and pressure. You will probably notice how many successful rain teams are usually comprised of 3 or so abusers in a team, and a great reason for that is because most of the viable abusers have access to momentum options to not only keep the tides on your side, but also to allow more efficient wallbreaking. Barraskewda is among the best of them for its highly coveted speed tier and great coverage; though, when it comes to abusers, you definitely want them to cover one another's bases so you can cover as many threats as possible.
Zapdos and Tornadus-T are incredible on rain teams for two giant reasons: their defensive typings and offensive options. Zapdos's defensive typing in particular is incredible in this current metagame, resisting both of Pheromosa's STABs, checking Melmetal, and being a generally reliable switch-in due to its natural bulk. Tornadus-T is great for a similar reason, boasting a ton of useful utility and also a great speed tier. Offensively, though, is where I feel these Pokemon shine the most. Most rain abusers tend to struggle against bulky Grass-type Pokemon and even some opposing bulky Water-type Pokemon, and both Zapdos and Tornadus-T feast upon them with STAB Hurricanes, and in the former's case, the addition of STAB Thunder. Especially with pivoting support from allies such as Barraskewda, they can really help you open holes in the opposition and give faster abusers that can be more readily checked an easier time cleaning the rubble.
I really like Ferrothorn and Blissey as glues on Rain teams. Not only can they provide incredibly useful hazards, but they also check a good lot of threats in the metagame that Rain teams are particularly swayed by. Rillaboom is beat by Ferrothorn, and Kyurem and Scarf Spectrier are walled by Blissey; this is especially helpful given that these three examples are among the most problematic for Rain abusers to check. Ferrothorn has a lot of useful utility that it boasts, such as also being able to set Spikes and Leech Seed, as well as being able to provide Knock Off spam that can keep abusers/setters healthy and yield easier switch-in opportunities. Blissey has access to Teleport, and does a great job stomaching Special attacks that Rain teams have a harder time taking on. I definitely suggest having Ferrothorn for sure, as its typing, bulk, and utility is godly for Rain cores. Blissey is nowhere near mandatory, but I've liked having it quite a bit.
Additionally, many Rain teams need to have an Electric immunity as to not be prone to losing momentum against more offensive teams, and Seismitoad fits the bill perfectly as both a potent Swift Swim abuser with a nifty Ground-type STAB, as well as access to Stealth Rock to ease pressure on Ferrothorn to set hazards. It's a really underrated threat on Rain currently, and one that has really helped me battle balance cores that can switch in more readily. Swampert is cool too since it can provide momentum directly and a reliable, bulky Stealth Rock user, though I tend to prefer Seismitoad for its ability to also perform as an abuser in of itself.
Kingdra and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike are both really strong abusers of Rain that I also would like to recommend, especially since both have access to momentum and can facilitate the switch-ins of Zapdos/Torn-T aptly. Additionally, they are both really good wallbreakers with access to nuclear dual STABs that can do a great job at wallbreaking for speedier, frailer abusers like Barraskewda.
I hope this helps!
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on non trickroom is there any real reason to use glastrier over mamo?
mamo is immune to taunt and intimidate, has ground stab and priority and a usable speed tier...
mamo is immune to taunt and intimidate, has ground stab and priority and a usable speed tier...
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Barraskewda and Pelipper are obviously pretty good mainstays on rain cores; however, Rain teams are inherently hyper offense, meaning that you want to generally cover as many offensive bases as possible and focus on maintaining momentum and pressure. You will probably notice how many successful rain teams are usually comprised of 3 or so abusers in a team, and a great reason for that is because most of the viable abusers have access to momentum options to not only keep the tides on your side, but also to allow more efficient wallbreaking. Barraskewda is among the best of them for its highly coveted speed tier and great coverage; though, when it comes to abusers, you definitely want them to cover one another's bases so you can cover as many threats as possible.
Zapdos and Tornadus-T are incredible on rain teams for two giant reasons: their defensive typings and offensive options. Zapdos's defensive typing in particular is incredible in this current metagame, resisting both of Pheromosa's STABs, checking Melmetal, and being a generally reliable switch-in due to its natural bulk. Tornadus-T is great for a similar reason, boasting a ton of useful utility and also a great speed tier. Offensively, though, is where I feel these Pokemon shine the most. Most rain abusers tend to struggle against bulky Grass-type Pokemon and even some opposing bulky Water-type Pokemon, and both Zapdos and Tornadus-T feast upon them with STAB Hurricanes, and in the former's case, the addition of STAB Thunder. Especially with pivoting support from allies such as Barraskewda, they can really help you open holes in the opposition and give faster abusers that can be more readily checked an easier time cleaning the rubble.
I really like Ferrothorn and Blissey as glues on Rain teams. Not only can they provide incredibly useful hazards, but they also check a good lot of threats in the metagame that Rain teams are particularly swayed by. Rillaboom is beat by Ferrothorn, and Kyurem and Scarf Spectrier are walled by Blissey; this is especially helpful given that these three examples are among the most problematic for Rain abusers to check. Ferrothorn has a lot of useful utility that it boasts, such as also being able to set Spikes and Leech Seed, as well as being able to provide Knock Off spam that can keep abusers/setters healthy and yield easier switch-in opportunities. Blissey has access to Teleport, and does a great job stomaching Special attacks that Rain teams have a harder time taking on. I definitely suggest having Ferrothorn for sure, as its typing, bulk, and utility is godly for Rain cores. Blissey is nowhere near mandatory, but I've liked having it quite a bit.
Additionally, many Rain teams need to have an Electric immunity as to not be prone to losing momentum against more offensive teams, and Seismitoad fits the bill perfectly as both a potent Swift Swim abuser with a nifty Ground-type STAB, as well as access to Stealth Rock to ease pressure on Ferrothorn to set hazards. It's a really underrated threat on Rain currently, and one that has really helped me battle balance cores that can switch in more readily. Swampert is cool too since it can provide momentum directly and a reliable, bulky Stealth Rock user, though I tend to prefer Seismitoad for its ability to also perform as an abuser in of itself.
Kingdra and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike are both really strong abusers of Rain that I also would like to recommend, especially since both have access to momentum and can facilitate the switch-ins of Zapdos/Torn-T aptly. Additionally, they are both really good wallbreakers with access to nuclear dual STABs that can do a great job at wallbreaking for speedier, frailer abusers like Barraskewda.
I hope this helps!
Thank you, I really appreciate this. It goes over alot of what I already know, but I think it’s highlights where I failed from the outset; I wasn’t taking a offensive enough approach to Rain, treating it closer to Bulky Offense than Offense or HO, and so that meant often running into Spectrier and having my team run over after swampert/another sponge was chipped away, or not playing aggressively enough into balance/stall and falling apart when the rest of my team failed to set
up for success.It’s almost a little embarrassing how something that simple sent me back to the drawing board so many times, but there isn’t much else to do except to keep playing with a correction made.
Follow-up question: would you recommend an offensively invested set or defensively invested set for
on rain? As far as I can tell, it’s not switching into Melmetal and co. any time soon without heavy investment, but at the same time I feel like I’d want my dual-STAB combo to secure as many reliable kills as possible on a more offensive team.
Thank you, I really appreciate this. It goes over alot of what I already know, but I think it’s highlights where I failed from the outset; I wasn’t taking a offensive enough approach to Rain, treating it closer to Bulky Offense than Offense or HO, and so that meant often running into Spectrier and having my team run over after swampert/another sponge was chipped away, or not playing aggressively enough into balance/stall and falling apart when the rest of my team failed to set
It’s almost a little embarrassing how something that simple sent me back to the drawing board so many times, but there isn’t much else to do except to keep playing with a correction made.
Follow-up question: would you recommend an offensively invested set or defensively invested set for
I'm really glad that cleared things up for you! Rain is definitely much more on the offensive side, and to achieve success with it, you really have to treat it as such. I can definitely understand the misconception though, since certain Rain components like Ferrothorn can be real eyebrow raisers.
To answer your follow-up question, I personally like running my Zapdos more offensively, as per to get the most mileage out of Thunder and Hurricane. That way, you can also afford to run Weather Ball more efficiently, which is a nice makeup tool for Zapdos's loss of HP Ice as it can nuke Ground-types and also provide a strong way to hit stray Rock-type switch-ins.
Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Weather Ball / Volt Switch
- Roost
This is the set I would recommend using, as Zapdos has natural bulk to switch into Pheromosa's STABs and is capable of punishing them with Static and even threaten them with a powerful hit in retaliation. CB Melmetal is a much more difficult to switch into, but its DIB is usually able to be played around due to Water-types' resistance, and Zapdos's presence sometimes forces the use of Ice Punch if Melmetal is pressed for breaking opportunities. The matchup against Pheromosa is much more notable, however, as even if it clicks Triple Axel against you, paralyzing it in retaliation is a death sentence. Volt Switch is slashed with Weather Ball, since the coverage isn't entirely necessary on a Rain team, and Volt Switch provides the aforementioned momentum that Rain cores greatly appreciate having.
While we're on the subject, I certainly think there is potential in running a more defensive Zapdos, but I think that's more dependent on the needs of your team as opposed to whether or not it is objectively better to run.
If I'm honest, not really. Glastrier may have bulk and coverage, but what really stings for it is its Stealth Rock weakness, horrible speed (which has abysmal synergy with its ability), a lack of priority, a lack of defensive utility, and the lack of Mamoswine's merciless STAB combination. Maybe you can make a tank set work, but it will likely necessitate major team support (such as from Wishport Clefable) to work to any consistent degree of success outside of Trick Room abuse. I'm curious to see if someone could make it work on its own, though.
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From my experience it's better to start with a solid defensive backbone than to go straight to Pelipper + 2 Rain abusers and see what glues you still need. Barraskewda is a great abuser but I only use it on approximately 60% of my Rain teams, whereas Ferrothorn is on nearly all of them. So in a sense, it's more about having two slots devoted to Pelipper + Ferrothorn than to Pelipper + BarraskewdaRain seems surprisingly difficult to build well. It feels like due to having two slots devoted to
What are some Pokémon I should be using on rain to adapt those last four slots to condense down a lot of the threat management necessary to make a good team in this meta?
There are many options for Steel types on Rain (including Magearna, Excadrill, Jirachi and Magnezone) and my Rain teams I consider the best are actually the ones that use double Steel (any of those + Ferrothorn). I do think Ferrothorn is without a doubt the most consistent choice because it's a Steel type that resists Water and isn't weak to Ground, making it crucial in the matchup against opposing Rain, offensive Electric types and bulky Waters. Another great trait is that Ferro actually discourages Banded Rillaboom from clicking Wood Hammer, whereras the likes of Magearna get 2HKO'd. The set I have had most success with is Knock Off / Power Whip / Stealth Rock / Spikes or Body Press
For the other slots it's simply important to keep in mind what matchups are threatening to Rain and whether your current choices help alleviating those issues. For example: if you're using Magearna as a second Steel type, you will be fine against SD Rillaboom in most matchups. However, if you're only running Ferrothorn as your sole Steel type, you definitely need something able to take a boosted Grassy Glide (Zapdos, Torn-T, Moltres, Latios and Dragapult are the most consistent options). If you're using Barraskewda / Kingdra over Urshifu or Seismitoad, it means your matchup against Sand offense is a lot worse because you don't have an offensive tool to take advantage of Tyranitar, so you have to fall back on Ferrothorn's defensive capabilities. Making a threatlist to Rain (which absolutely must include Toxapex, SD and Banded Rillaboom, Sand, Ferrothorn, opposing Rain, Kyurem and Torn-T) and deciding what combinations of glues and Rain abusers are best fit to deal with those threats is the way to go for those who are new to building Rain in my opinion.
Pokemon I've used on Rain in the past:
Great:
Good:
Viable:
I think trapping moves and items are hugely unexplored outside of Magma Storm. I remember a highly ranked rmt in DLC 1 that featured a binding band tangrowth with infestation but outside that, not much. Has anyone used any cool techs and combos involving some of these moves/items?