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What is the difference between using Gothorita and Gothitelle in this meta? Since I see that both are ranked, I found that pretty curious.
 

Ropalme1914

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What is the difference between using Gothorita and Gothitelle in this meta? Since I see that both are ranked, I found that pretty curious.
They're mostly the same: in general, they trap the same Pokémon (most support Pokémon like Support Arceus, Lugia, and others) so it's more of a personal prefference (Gothorita is bulkier due to Eviolite, but it lacks the Leftovers recovery that Gothitelle has).
 

Exiline

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What is the difference between using Gothorita and Gothitelle in this meta? Since I see that both are ranked, I found that pretty curious.
just use gothitelle it's way better against leech seed and toxic users in a lesser measure. also leftovers > eviolite if you ever get frozen by supportceus
 
Why is Mega Blaziken C+? I mean, sure it isn't the worst possible ranking, but I kind of wanna try it out and I was just wondering.

On the same topic, why are Genesect, Shaymin, and Kyurem-White ranked so lowly?
 

Ropalme1914

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Why is Mega Blaziken C+? I mean, sure it isn't the worst possible ranking, but I kind of wanna try it out and I was just wondering.

On the same topic, why are Genesect, Shaymin, and Kyurem-White ranked so lowly?
Mega Blaziken is C+ because it's way too frail, making it vulnerable to priority, and even if it has a good offensive typing with powerful moves, its coverage is pretty lacking, which means that it will always be checked by Pokémon like Zygarde-C, both Giratina, Lugia, Mega Salamence, and others, since it needs to decide between Knock Off and Stone Edge on the last slot. It also is very vulnerable to priority, and taking up your mega slot along with requiring team support never is a great thing.
Genesect... Just can't do much on this meta. It doesn't hit very hard compared to pretty much any other Uber, it's a Steel-type that is bad at checking Xerneas (it even has 75% chance to get OHKOed by +2 Moonblast after rocks), it can't damage Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh outside of using Explosion, and even as a pivot you have better options like Magearna and Mega Scizor.
Shaymin-Sky does have a great Speed, but its typing combined with its bulk means that it os very easy to wear down, especially with Stealth Rock and LO. It also is weak, so it relies on Sp. Def drops from Seed Flare on flinchs from Air Slash to defeat bulkier Pokémon, since they can take many hits with Skymin's low Special Attack and Air Slash having low BP. It having a bad matchup against Necrozma-DM, Mega Gengar, and Ho-Oh also is horrible.
Kyurem-White suffers from having a terrible typing (vulnerable to all hazard + it's weak to Stealth Rock, along with having common weakness like Fighting and Fairy), below average Speed, and depending on Draco Meteor to hit a lot of things, so some Pokémon like Xerneas and Necrozma-DM can setup on it after a drop. Kyurem-White is a strong Pokémon, but it needs a lot of support, so it's very hard to fit it on a team.
 
Mega Blaziken is C+ because it's way too frail, making it vulnerable to priority, and even if it has a good offensive typing with powerful moves, its coverage is pretty lacking, which means that it will always be checked by Pokémon like Zygarde-C, both Giratina, Lugia, Mega Salamence, and others, since it needs to decide between Knock Off and Stone Edge on the last slot. It also is very vulnerable to priority, and taking up your mega slot along with requiring team support never is a great thing.
Genesect... Just can't do much on this meta. It doesn't hit very hard compared to pretty much any other Uber, it's a Steel-type that is bad at checking Xerneas (it even has 75% chance to get OHKOed by +2 Moonblast after rocks), it can't damage Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh outside of using Explosion, and even as a pivot you have better options like Magearna and Mega Scizor.
Shaymin-Sky does have a great Speed, but its typing combined with its bulk means that it os very easy to wear down, especially with Stealth Rock and LO. It also is weak, so it relies on Sp. Def drops from Seed Flare on flinchs from Air Slash to defeat bulkier Pokémon, since they can take many hits with Skymin's low Special Attack and Air Slash having low BP. It having a bad matchup against Necrozma-DM, Mega Gengar, and Ho-Oh also is horrible.
Kyurem-White suffers from having a terrible typing (vulnerable to all hazard + it's weak to Stealth Rock, along with having common weakness like Fighting and Fairy), below average Speed, and depending on Draco Meteor to hit a lot of things, so some Pokémon like Xerneas and Necrozma-DM can setup on it after a drop. Kyurem-White is a strong Pokémon, but it needs a lot of support, so it's very hard to fit it on a team.
Ah, that's too bad. Thanks though!

Do you know why the following Pokemon are ranked so lowly?:

  • Dialga
  • Dawn Wings Necrozma
  • Aegislash
  • Reshiram
  • Mega Kangaskhan
  • Darkrai
  • Zekrom
  • Pheromosa
  • Landorus
  • Mega Mewtwo X
  • Mega Lucario (I know B- isn't too bad, but I just wanted to know)
 

Ropalme1914

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Ah, that's too bad. Thanks though!

Do you know why the following Pokemon are ranked so lowly?:

  • Dialga
  • Dawn Wings Necrozma
  • Aegislash
  • Reshiram
  • Mega Kangaskhan
  • Darkrai
  • Zekrom
  • Pheromosa
  • Landorus
  • Mega Mewtwo X
  • Mega Lucario (I know B- isn't too bad, but I just wanted to know)
This got pretty long, so I'll just leave each Pokémon on their hide tags.
Dialga's niche is as a SR user, which means that it already will compete with great Pokémon, especially Necrozma-DM. While it doesn't have a bad typing, it still is a Steel-type that can't check Xerneas, which is horrible since you'll need another check to it and probably will stack a lot of weakness if you use it. It also has 4MSS, so it won't have great coverage also. Finally, it is vulnerable to a lot of top tier Pokémon, including Primal Groudon, Marshadow, Arceus-Ground, and Ho-Oh if it lacks Thunder.

Necrozma-DW is just... A bad Lunala. It is slow, has bad coverage (the best it has to hit Dark-types is like, Signal Beam), and its ability is not that useful since most Ghost- and Dark-types moves still are going to OHKO it. The only niche it has is as a base to Ultra Necrozma on Sticky Web teams, since it can spinblock before Ultra Bursting. Oh, and it also doesn't let you use Necrozma-DM on the same team.

Aegislash is a pretty passive Pokémon overall, and is vulnerable to a lot of Pokémon like Primal Groudon and Yveltal. As a Xerneas check, not only it has a lot of competition, it doesn't do much to set it apart, since it isn't as strong as Necrozma-DM, doesn't remove the boosts like Magearna, and doesn't have a reliable form of recovery like the many others (it can only depend on Leftovers for that).

Reshiram has a bad defensive typing, also being vulnerable to all forms of hazards and weak to Stealth Rock, is a Fire-type that doesn't check Xerneas, is slow, and faces a hard competition from Primal Groudon, which is way user to fit into a team, has a way better ability, is more unpredictable, can boost its Speed, has a better secondary STAB, and can even be run mixed. It also doesn't touch some Pokémon like the blobs and Ho-Oh if you lack Stone Edge.

Mega Kangaskhan doesn't hit hard enough for Ubers (since its main source of damage is Seismic Toss, it can't do much to Ghost-types even with some coverage, and it has trouble with Pokémon with high HP like Zygarde-C), isn't that fast, and even if it has decent bulk, it doesn't offers good defensive synergy due to the lack of resistances. It takes up your mega slot and requires a lot of team support.

Darkrai, even if it can be threat if it setups, is a super frail Pokémon, so it doesn't have many opportunities for it, and not hitting hard enough before setup. This means that it needs to fish for a Hypnosis, which is not a reliable move, and that it won't do much when it misses. Also, since 3/4 of its moves are Hypnosis, Dark Pulse, and Nasty Plot, you'll just have one slot for important coverage, making you choose between Thunder for Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Primal Kyogre and Sludge Bomb for Fairy-types, and regardless from which you choose, Pokémon like Magearna still are going to switch on you everytime. As a Dark-type, it also faces competition with Yveltal, which brings way more defensive utility, has a great secondary STAB, and hits much harder unboosted.

Zekrom is another slow Pokémon with a typing that suffers to Primal Groudon, and both of its STABs have common immunities. Its movepool is very lacking, with it offensively only having Bolt Strike and Outrage (mandatory due to it needing a Dragonium Z to bypass Ground-types), with Hone Claws as its only boosting move.

Pheromosa is fast but frail Pokémon with powerful moves. That does sounds similar to Deoxys-A, right? The problem is that Deoxys-A is way stronger on both sides and has a better movepool. Even Deoxys-A is not really amazing right now, but the only reasons that you probably would want to use Pheromosa are U-Turn (it always is good to have a pivot, but Pheromosa is not a great one on Ubers), Beast Boost (even if it is a great ability, remember that you're super frail, so you probably won't be able to abuse it due to priority), and maybe STAB Low Kick or Rapid Spin.

Landorus is a pretty strong wallbreaker and has a decent Speed tier, but it is frail and has a bad defensive typing that lacks resistances outside of a ground immunity. It is vulnerable to most things that are faster than it, and even those that it could have an advantage due to being faster and immune to Ground also can deal with it on the switch, like Primal Groudon's Overheat OHKOing it. Other wallbreakers also have better STABs and can bring more utility to the team, like Lunala.

C+ is not really a super bad rank and, like Mega Blaziken, you'll probably still be able to use and not feel that it didn't do anything, but Mega Mewtwo X still is mostly inferior to Marshadow and Ultra Necrozma. Mewtwo's typing doesn't offer anything on the defensive side, and while Low Kick is a good STAB, it does misses Close Combat on some targets, and Zen Headbutt neither is a good STAB move or have a great synergy with Low Kick. Also, Ultra Necrozma offers better defensive synergy before Ultra Bursting, has a similar Speed tier (tho not tying with Mega Gengar isn't great), has Swords Dance to boost itself, is even more unpredictable than Mewtwo, has a better Psychic-type STAB with Photon Geyser, has a Z-Move, and doesn't take your mega slot.

Mega Lucario had its glory days way back to SM, but now isn't that good. It's not the go-to mega for Sticky Web teams anymore, a lot of Pokémon that can deal with it like Ho-Oh, Toxapex, and Zygarde-C are popular right now, and Necrozma-DM arrived as the new best offensive Steel-type Pokémon, being more unpredictable, having a Z-Move, not taking a mega slot, and offering more defensive utility. It still hits super hard, but it just isn't thay effective due to its answers being good on this meta.
 
This got pretty long, so I'll just leave each Pokémon on their hide tags.
Dialga's niche is as a SR user, which means that it already will compete with great Pokémon, especially Necrozma-DM. While it doesn't have a bad typing, it still is a Steel-type that can't check Xerneas, which is horrible since you'll need another check to it and probably will stack a lot of weakness if you use it. It also has 4MSS, so it won't have great coverage also. Finally, it is vulnerable to a lot of top tier Pokémon, including Primal Groudon, Marshadow, Arceus-Ground, and Ho-Oh if it lacks Thunder.

Necrozma-DW is just... A bad Lunala. It is slow, has bad coverage (the best it has to hit Dark-types is like, Signal Beam), and its ability is not that useful since most Ghost- and Dark-types moves still are going to OHKO it. The only niche it has is as a base to Ultra Necrozma on Sticky Web teams, since it can spinblock before Ultra Bursting. Oh, and it also doesn't let you use Necrozma-DM on the same team.

Aegislash is a pretty passive Pokémon overall, and is vulnerable to a lot of Pokémon like Primal Groudon and Yveltal. As a Xerneas check, not only it has a lot of competition, it doesn't do much to set it apart, since it isn't as strong as Necrozma-DM, doesn't remove the boosts like Magearna, and doesn't have a reliable form of recovery like the many others (it can only depend on Leftovers for that).

Reshiram has a bad defensive typing, also being vulnerable to all forms of hazards and weak to Stealth Rock, is a Fire-type that doesn't check Xerneas, is slow, and faces a hard competition from Primal Groudon, which is way user to fit into a team, has a way better ability, is more unpredictable, can boost its Speed, has a better secondary STAB, and can even be run mixed. It also doesn't touch some Pokémon like the blobs and Ho-Oh if you lack Stone Edge.

Mega Kangaskhan doesn't hit hard enough for Ubers (since its main source of damage is Seismic Toss, it can't do much to Ghost-types even with some coverage, and it has trouble with Pokémon with high HP like Zygarde-C), isn't that fast, and even if it has decent bulk, it doesn't offers good defensive synergy due to the lack of resistances. It takes up your mega slot and requires a lot of team support.

Darkrai, even if it can be threat if it setups, is a super frail Pokémon, so it doesn't have many opportunities for it, and not hitting hard enough before setup. This means that it needs to fish for a Hypnosis, which is not a reliable move, and that it won't do much when it misses. Also, since 3/4 of its moves are Hypnosis, Dark Pulse, and Nasty Plot, you'll just have one slot for important coverage, making you choose between Thunder for Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Primal Kyogre and Sludge Bomb for Fairy-types, and regardless from which you choose, Pokémon like Magearna still are going to switch on you everytime. As a Dark-type, it also faces competition with Yveltal, which brings way more defensive utility, has a great secondary STAB, and hits much harder unboosted.

Zekrom is another slow Pokémon with a typing that suffers to Primal Groudon, and both of its STABs have common immunities. Its movepool is very lacking, with it offensively only having Bolt Strike and Outrage (mandatory due to it needing a Dragonium Z to bypass Ground-types), with Hone Claws as its only boosting move.

Pheromosa is fast but frail Pokémon with powerful moves. That does sounds similar to Deoxys-A, right? The problem is that Deoxys-A is way stronger on both sides and has a better movepool. Even Deoxys-A is not really amazing right now, but the only reasons that you probably would want to use Pheromosa are U-Turn (it always is good to have a pivot, but Pheromosa is not a great one on Ubers), Beast Boost (even if it is a great ability, remember that you're super frail, so you probably won't be able to abuse it due to priority), and maybe STAB Low Kick or Rapid Spin.

Landorus is a pretty strong wallbreaker and has a decent Speed tier, but it is frail and has a bad defensive typing that lacks resistances outside of a ground immunity. It is vulnerable to most things that are faster than it, and even those that it could have an advantage due to being faster and immune to Ground also can deal with it on the switch, like Primal Groudon's Overheat OHKOing it. Other wallbreakers also have better STABs and can bring more utility to the team, like Lunala.

C+ is not really a super bad rank and, like Mega Blaziken, you'll probably still be able to use and not feel that it didn't do anything, but Mega Mewtwo X still is mostly inferior to Marshadow and Ultra Necrozma. Mewtwo's typing doesn't offer anything on the defensive side, and while Low Kick is a good STAB, it does misses Close Combat on some targets, and Zen Headbutt neither is a good STAB move or have a great synergy with Low Kick. Also, Ultra Necrozma offers better defensive synergy before Ultra Bursting, has a similar Speed tier (tho not tying with Mega Gengar isn't great), has Swords Dance to boost itself, is even more unpredictable than Mewtwo, has a better Psychic-type STAB with Photon Geyser, has a Z-Move, and doesn't take your mega slot.

Mega Lucario had its glory days way back to SM, but now isn't that good. It's not the go-to mega for Sticky Web teams anymore, a lot of Pokémon that can deal with it like Ho-Oh, Toxapex, and Zygarde-C are popular right now, and Necrozma-DM arrived as the new best offensive Steel-type Pokémon, being more unpredictable, having a Z-Move, not taking a mega slot, and offering more defensive utility. It still hits super hard, but it just isn't thay effective due to its answers being good on this meta.
Makes sense! Thats a shame though. I really like some of these Pokemon

At least B- isnt the worst ranking for Lucario
 
A few questions:

What niches does MMX have over Marshadow?

Why is base form Mewtwo considered so bad, worse than either mega? I remember in ORAS that base form was considered better than either Mega, and now it has access to Z moves, so is it just that there's less competition for the mega slot or something?

Finally, in what situations is Eruption viable on Primal Groudon, or is it just not viable at all?
 

Ropalme1914

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A few questions:

What niches does MMX have over Marshadow?

Why is base form Mewtwo considered so bad, worse than either mega? I remember in ORAS that base form was considered better than either Mega, and now it has access to Z moves, so is it just that there's less competition for the mega slot or something?

Finally, in what situations is Eruption viable on Primal Groudon, or is it just not viable at all?
Mega Mewtwo X can hit way harder than Marshadow, is bulkier, faster, has access to Recover and can run things like Ice Beam and Stone Edge on the same set, so it can deal with Zygarde-C, Salamence, Ho-Oh and others at the same time.

Base Mewtwo is mostly outclassed by Mega Mewtwo Y, which is faster (with it outspeeding things like Mega Gengar and +1 Zygarde-C that are super important on this meta) and doesn't have the LO recoil, so it isn't as easy to wear down. On ORAS, Mewtwo wasn't exactly considered better than Mega Mewtwo Y, it just hits harder, but the metagame has changed, since ORAS didn't have Zygarde-C, Ekiller now has lower usage, among some other things.

Eruption is great on Sticky Web and can be used on some offensive support Groudon due to its better rolls against Pokémon like Arceus-Ground, but Overheat is used most of the time in that situation due to it being more consistent.
 

Ropalme1914

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Why is Mega Kangaskhan C? Did it really suffer that badly from the 25% of damage on the second hit instead of 50%?
Yes, the nerf means that sets that do not use Seismic Toss do not work at all. However, gen 7 also introduced new Ghost-types like Lunala and Marshadow, which are immune to Seismic Toss, and in the case of Marshadow, can even OHKO it, and also Zygarde-C, that can easily take a Seismic Toss with its gigantic HP. Also, that set needs to abuse Toxic Spikes to make all of its use, but there are other better Tspikes abusers overall, like DD Zygarde-C and Mega Gengar.
 
Yes, the nerf means that sets that do not use Seismic Toss do not work at all. However, gen 7 also introduced new Ghost-types like Lunala and Marshadow, which are immune to Seismic Toss, and in the case of Marshadow, can even OHKO it, and also Zygarde-C, that can easily take a Seismic Toss with its gigantic HP. Also, that set needs to abuse Toxic Spikes to make all of its use, but there are other better Tspikes abusers overall, like DD Zygarde-C and Mega Gengar.
Aw, that sucks.

But Power-Up Punch is cool ;)
 
I'm not sure if I can ask this but they are things that make me think. Why is Sash Marsh used so much? Do I really rent to use it like that? And the same with Yveltal I'm seeing enough Scarf / Specs with HeatWave. Why? The only viable reason is Magearna. But neither is it a threat and I do not think it is so necessary.
 

Ropalme1914

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I'm not sure if I can ask this but they are things that make me think. Why is Sash Marsh used so much? Do I really rent to use it like that? And the same with Yveltal I'm seeing enough Scarf / Specs with HeatWave. Why? The only viable reason is Magearna. But neither is it a threat and I do not think it is so necessary.
I'm not a fan of Sash Marshadow on most teams (the only one that I like it is on French Webs), and I know that a lot of more experienced players also don't, but it is effective as a anti-offense tool since it prevents setup from basically anything if you keep hazards off, which is especially good considering how offense is way more common on the ladder than it is on tournaments.
Heat Wave Yveltal can also hit Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Klefki, which, while do not appreciate Dark Pulse, can take one hit and retaliate it back with Leech Seed, U-turn, etc. Although, are you sure you're seeing it a lot on Scarf? It is great on Specs because it is a guaranteed OHKO on Ferrothorn and a 2HKO on Magearna, but Scarf kinda miss that, so I not a fan of that. Still, you could say that it still is Yveltal's best move against those Pokémon, but I find hard to fit that move on this set. But this is why those are used.
 

Ropalme1914

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Hi guys,

I am relatively new in competitive play here, and my friend had a game where I don't know what happened, I mean I don't know how is that possible. Can you help me explaining that?

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-849787925
I am talking about this match and I am curious why Gothitelle's PP wasn't decreasing, and why succeeded all protect moves?
The Protect all succeded because he was using Thunder Wave on the Truant turns, which means that he never used on succession to make it fail (though Protect can work even if used one after the other, but the chances get lower each time). Also, he was losing PP, it's just that you never got to a turn where you wasted it all.
 
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