I agree but I think it's not too difficult to stop him
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers
- Thread starter Nayrz
- Start date
You're gonna have to give us a better definition of what you consider "overrated". I feel that both Cinderace and Calyrex-S are overrated by low ladder people, the former because they insist on using their favorite starter and the latter because they refuse to build around it. Choice Specs Kyogre is also a Pokemon I see people build teams around with minimum support and expect it to just kind of win by itself.
Buzzwole is used as a Physical wall to deal with Pokemon like Zygarde, Groudon, Zekrom, Marshardow and so on. You need Roost to be able to come repeatedly on these threats. Ice Punch seems to be mandatory if you want to beat Zygarde and Groudon. For the other moveslots, you can either use a Bulk Up set, and so rather have Drain Punch as your Fighting STAB or a non-boosting set with Close Combat as it has a way higher damage output. Last move on a non-Bulk Up set could be a coverage option like Rock Slide to threaten Ho-Oh. On the Bulk Up set, Lunge seems also to be an option as it is suggested in the Smogon analysis (https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/pokemon/buzzwole/uber/).
in a ubers vr thread i saw someone mention about choice band buzzwole.
what set does it run.
Buzzwole @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 152 HP / 172 Atk / 80 Def / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Rock Slide
- Roost
From the Smogon analysis. “The EV spread allows Buzzwole to outspeed a paralyzed Calyrex-S as well as maximum Speed Calyrex-I. The rest of the EVs maximize Buzzwole's Attack and HP while allowing it to live two Adamant Choice Band Spectral Thief's from Marshadow.”
Also the reason it runs roost even on Choice Band sets is to switch into Knock Off from Yveltal.
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
From their analysis page, what is the 16 spe for on Groudon's bulky swords dance and Eternatus' speciall defensive set for? Also, what is a good set for Yveltal that has some offensive presence rather than just utility while still keeping my team safe from being ripped apart by the shadow rider and Marshadow?
Katy
Banned deucer.
the 16 speed EVs on eternatus allow it to speed tie at least with bulky dragon dance necrozma dusk mane at +1 and full speed invested xerneas / yveltal with either timid or jolly nature, depending on their set. it also outruns full speed invested urshifu-s.
the 16 speed evs on groudon are basically to speed tie with the aforementioned dragon dance necrozma at neutral, means no +1, it can also outrun defensive ho-oh.
Yveltal @ Black Glasses
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Taunt
- Sucker Punch
this could be a set for yveltal against both marshadow and calyrex-s which still maintains offensive presence with reasonable recovery in roost and it can threaten choice locked calyrex-s with its priority in sucker punch. it can also knock off their items (marshadows and calyrex') which is pretty good and reliable in the long run. black glasses is used to maintain some health, whereas if you go with an even more offensive set, it should be coupled with oblivion wing, when you decide to run life orb on it, as oblivion wing deals damage while healing yveltal up.
Yveltal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 72 SpD / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Foul Play
- Oblivion Wing
- U-turn
- Defog
this set can also help against both, marshadow and calyrex-s, as it outspeed both and can deal damage with oblivion wing and foul play. foul play can also hit groudon, necrozma dusk mane and other physical oriented attackers pretty hard, which is pretty neat as an all-around-tool. u-turn can get you out of incoming unfavorable matchups such as xerneas to keep up the momentum.
these are the two sets which i feel can work most efficiently against both pokemon in uber. however, yveltal still needs to be careful about switching into them.
hopefully this helped :)
the 16 speed evs on groudon are basically to speed tie with the aforementioned dragon dance necrozma at neutral, means no +1, it can also outrun defensive ho-oh.
Yveltal @ Black Glasses
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Taunt
- Sucker Punch
this could be a set for yveltal against both marshadow and calyrex-s which still maintains offensive presence with reasonable recovery in roost and it can threaten choice locked calyrex-s with its priority in sucker punch. it can also knock off their items (marshadows and calyrex') which is pretty good and reliable in the long run. black glasses is used to maintain some health, whereas if you go with an even more offensive set, it should be coupled with oblivion wing, when you decide to run life orb on it, as oblivion wing deals damage while healing yveltal up.
Yveltal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 72 SpD / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Foul Play
- Oblivion Wing
- U-turn
- Defog
this set can also help against both, marshadow and calyrex-s, as it outspeed both and can deal damage with oblivion wing and foul play. foul play can also hit groudon, necrozma dusk mane and other physical oriented attackers pretty hard, which is pretty neat as an all-around-tool. u-turn can get you out of incoming unfavorable matchups such as xerneas to keep up the momentum.
these are the two sets which i feel can work most efficiently against both pokemon in uber. however, yveltal still needs to be careful about switching into them.
hopefully this helped :)
why isn't calyrex-s banned yet?
Katy
Banned deucer.
Due to Yveltals high presence in the tier and also revengekillers which are often used such as Marshadow with Shadow Sneak and many good specially defensive oriented walls Calyrex-S isnt deemed banworthy yet. There are also a lot of great Choice Scarf users in the tier such as Galarian Darmanitan, Kyogre (also a bit less rare than Specs), and other Pokemon equipped with a Choice Scarf in regular battles, Uber teambuilders dont have to go out their way to check this monstrosity of a horse. Although I think it is always worth to discuss this Pokemons presence and impact in the tier, as it can also be (in my personal opinion) a bit straining to teambuilding. But in overall although its a bit restricting, it can be dealt with well. But yeah, it is always worth keeping an eye on this Pokemon for now and in the future.
To add onto what Katy said, I think the Calyrex-SR potential suspect/ban desire has declined a little since the Zacian ban, as it offered more flexibility to teams and it became easier to check it. This is why the older posts generally look more harsh on the subject than now.
I have been reading up on the Ubers Ladder trends in VR and Metagame discussion and saw a lot of new techs being mentioned like Zamazenta, Groudon, CM Kyogre etc. (New is a relative term, I last played Ubers around the time Shadow Tag was being Suspected).
I was looking at the Smogon Analyses for these mons and saw that they were all outdated to the point that we were running these sets back even around the STag meta.
Is there a thread where I can see the up to date analyses for these mon. Also I remember someone had written a very nice set compendium for the early meta game, maybe something like that is available?
Also is revamp of the old strategy analyses on the main site itself also something you guys doing right now?
I was looking at the Smogon Analyses for these mons and saw that they were all outdated to the point that we were running these sets back even around the STag meta.
Is there a thread where I can see the up to date analyses for these mon. Also I remember someone had written a very nice set compendium for the early meta game, maybe something like that is available?
Also is revamp of the old strategy analyses on the main site itself also something you guys doing right now?
All 3 of the Pokemon you mentioned are being worked on. There is the Ubers C&C subforum where you can see analyses (not) being updated in real time. Your comment about other analyses being outdated is simply not true- the sets for a lot of Pokemon that are placeholders still stand as pretty usable even in the current metagame.
As for your set compendium question, the person running that thread is currently on hiatus, but it might soon be picked up by another user. For now, no word of it being updated, sorry!
Ah, well thanks a lot.
As to my statement being wrong about the sets being outdated, what I meant was that I remember these sets being the same ones from the time of STag.
I don't know if they are still viable as haven't played Ubers in quite some time. I thought that they were outdated as, for example -people were calling choiced Kygore very much inferior to CM sets in the discussion thread and the analyses showed the Choiced set, Groudon sets didn't have fire moves, NDM was still Phy Def while people were saying SpD is viable etc. Have absolutely no idea at all about what the meta game is like right now.
Katy
Banned deucer.
Calyrex-S with Psyshock can take on Blissey and also is able to take on other threats such as Shedinja with Astral Barrage. With Choice Specs equipped it can either break with its ability As One which is the combination of Unnerve and Grim Neigh to prevent Berries from working and to get yourself a Boost. Furthermore it can Trick its item onto Pokemon like Blissey to make it useless altogether.
Zekrom with Teravolt is also a great stallbreaker and wallbreaker alike, as it ignores opposing Pokemons abilities such as Unaware.
Choice Specs Kyogre + Marshadow can threaten stall, the same mention goes to Geomancy + Aromatherapy Xerneas.
Strong wallbreakers such as G-Darmanitan, Kyurem-W, and Rayguaza can break down walls fairly easily.
Yveltal with Knock Off, Taunt, and Foul Play can serve also as a stallbreaker. Another Dark-type which works well is Urshifu-S, as it goes through Protect with Unseen Fist and always crits with Wicked Blow. It can take on Pokemon like Blissey with ease. You can use these Pokemon alongside Aromatherapy users such as the aforementioned Calyrex-S and Xerneas.
Zekrom with Teravolt is also a great stallbreaker and wallbreaker alike, as it ignores opposing Pokemons abilities such as Unaware.
Choice Specs Kyogre + Marshadow can threaten stall, the same mention goes to Geomancy + Aromatherapy Xerneas.
Strong wallbreakers such as G-Darmanitan, Kyurem-W, and Rayguaza can break down walls fairly easily.
Yveltal with Knock Off, Taunt, and Foul Play can serve also as a stallbreaker. Another Dark-type which works well is Urshifu-S, as it goes through Protect with Unseen Fist and always crits with Wicked Blow. It can take on Pokemon like Blissey with ease. You can use these Pokemon alongside Aromatherapy users such as the aforementioned Calyrex-S and Xerneas.
Is stall even viable in a meta with monsters like Calyrex-S, Xerneas and the weather trio running around?
Katy
Banned deucer.
Stall can be run with Pokemon like Ho-Oh, Blissey, Lunala, Giratina (regular forme, not the levitating), and filler Pokemon, which can help the rest of the team such as Lugia, Groudon, Zygarde-C, Buzzwole, Toxapex, and Ferrothorn. Even tho alot of Pokemon seem scary, but stall is having still some use in Uber, as all the aforementioned Pokemon have enough bulk and sustainability to fit onto (semi)-stall teams.
Hopefully that helped :)
Okay, speaking of Lugia, is it D-rank solely because of how prominent Calyrex-S, Yveltal, Lunala and Zekrom are? Or is it just not good this Gen?
Lugia isnt in a good spot right now since is to passive and needs to be to full health in order to check the multiple threats in the tier wich can be difficult do to the abundance of Knock Off spam. Lunala is by far a better option despite being weak to Knock Off since it can actually do damage outside of Toxic and it have a better speed and typing.
Katy
Banned deucer.
That and Lunala exists to make its job but better.
Fardin
Tournament Banned
SparksBlade forced me against my will to help u, so here i am. stall is at a weird place right now compared to other gens. after the zac ban, i wanna say walling a lot of the big threats ubers has to offer isnt that big of a challenge. the real issue comes from hazards and making progress vs etern + spikers.
in usum and oras, we had msab to kind of just ignore any passive but annoying spikers/srockers and we kinda took that for granted. now that we dont have that kind of mon here, stuff like spikes ferrothorn with knock off and leech + ur usual breakers like don or etc which u would normally wall, now have a legit shot at making important progress.
you could maybe try double defog to combat that issue, but if that ferrothorn + rocker happens to have toxic as well, the long game will be just as more annoying against their breakers. (plus double defog is generally really hard to make work cause then u will leave urself liable to even more offensive threats that now can actually have a nice mu vs u)
https://pokepast.es/f68d86022ecedf12
that here is how i personally approached stall for this meta. i tried to compress walling the big threats as much as possible so i have space for pokemons like clef and pex that dont care much about hazards + status and can handle the long games really well. that alone wasn't enough for me tho, so i also added the twaves trap set on zyg plus the block spite set on toxa, to allow even less free turns for ferro or other hazard setters. that is pretty much my way of substituting msab into SS.
with that being said, there are some inevitable stuff this stall just has to live with. NP Trick caly is an incredbily annoying pokemon here since yve is my sole check against it and i dont have any speed control here. I cant possibly see a way to fix this issue without making the base team worse so its just something i have to live with and try really hard to outplay vs (especially if they are specs cause then i have no option but go yve unless i wanna risk a sack or chip on some key mons)
stall is 100% viable to me but, just as in any other gen, u gonna have those very few mons that can just fuck u up on preview and u dont have much of an option to play around vs.
fc might tell u fling ttar is good mon but he is a liar.
Why is Slurpuff so good (currently sitting at B rank on the VR)
Slurpuff is probably the only dedicated Sticky Webs setter right now that not only deters opposing hazard setters but can also stop most set-up sweepers all in one fell swoop. It can use Yawn to stop any potential foe from setting up, Magic Coat to bounce back opposing Taunt and Stealth Rock and effectively allows for free pivoting with Misty Explosion. Overall a fantastic addition to most HO teams, but you can read more about it in our analysis about it