BW OU Simulation of a Drought (GeneSun team)

[Lavos]

Thanks for the rates, everybody. I've looked them all over carefully, and while I appreciate the time and thought that were put into them by people such as Doom and Finchinator, I'm not making any changes until I test out every suggestion and determine for myself what fits the style of the team and my own playstyle better. Still, thank you for the rates, please keep them coming!

And to those who say my team is similar to other Sun offense teams, of course it's going to be. The accepted core for Sun offense is Ninetales, Dugtrio, and 2 Sun sweepers. The last two Pokemon have to be something to deal with hazards and a filler, preferably a Steel-type. Being similar to another successful team is something I can be proud of, because it means my team is somewhat decent as well.

 

[Sork]

Hey Lavos, I'm not an excellent team rater, and this suggestion is probably one that you've already thought of and dismissed, but have you thought about using focus sash Genesect instead of your current choice scarf one? With focus sash, you can still bluff the scarf, and with Xatu able to keep hazards off your team, you'll be able to take a hit from any poke, no matter what their speed stat is, and be able to hit hard with the appropriate move. This might also help to alleviate your Rock Polish Landorus problem, because this way, Landorus won't be able to KO, even with a crit, and will allow Genesect to be able to KO back with an Ice Beam. The EV spread I would suggest for this is 64 atk / 252 speed / 194 Sp Atk. This also allows you to take on DD Dragonite head on, since it won't be able to OHKO if it's carrying Fire Punch, since the EV's you had were so that you can outspeed Dragonite at +1

 

[AznSeal]

I don't want to shit up Lavos' RMT, so i'll keep it brief:

It's an extremely common archetype because sun team slots are limited. You HAVE to use Ninetales, you're likely to want to abuse Dugtrio / Venusaur because they're really useful, and Xatu / Spinner is just common sense. Lavos' team makes active makes use of Genesect/Xatu while Gamester's doesn't and they play differently as a result. in that respect, are completely different.

Otherwise, I might as well go around posting in sun teams saying "OMG THAT'S SIMILAR TO THE TEAM I USED!" It just doesn't make sense.

Agreed. Every sun team needs ninetales. Dugtrio pretty much poops on Tyranitar, and EQ+Reversal stops specs toad dead cold.

This team is completely different from gamestars. Vengeance was (one of) the first sun team to abuse a wobb-trio core to completely shut down opposing weather. Dugtrio gets rid of Specs toad/Ttar while wobb gets rid of Hippowdown/scarf toad/support toad.

Lavos's team was the first to popularize Genesect/U-turning in the sun, and it does it successfully by putting on heavy offensive pressure.

tl;dr: This team and vengeance are completely different.

 

[alexwolf]

Excellent team Lavos Spawn!

But why Rocky Helemt on Xatu instead of Lefties? You didn't explained it, or i missed it...

 

[Lavos]

Agreed. Every sun team needs ninetales. Dugtrio pretty much poops on Tyranitar, and EQ+Reversal stops specs toad dead cold.

This team is completely different from gamestars. Vengeance was (one of) the first sun team to abuse a wobb-trio core to completely shut down opposing weather. Dugtrio gets rid of Specs toad/Ttar while wobb gets rid of Hippowdown/scarf toad/support toad.

Lavos's team was the first to popularize Genesect/U-turning in the sun, and it does it successfully by putting on heavy offensive pressure.

tl;dr: This team and vengeance are completely different.

Yeah, thanks for pointing that out, because I feel like too many comparisons are being drawn here to other Sun teams. Sun isn't like Sand where you can slap a Ttar on any group of 5 Pokemon and call it good, it basically requires a standard core of Tales/Dugtrio/spinner or magic bouncer, so they're bound to be similar overall.

Excellent team Lavos Spawn!

But why Rocky Helemt on Xatu instead of Lefties? You didn't explained it, or i missed it...

It lets me stall out Ice Fang Hippowdon, Ferrothorn/Forretress/Scizor in Rain, etc. I just like the residual damage it provides, I guess. It's also a good way to rack up some damage on Tyranitar before I send in Dugtrio to clean up.

 

[Stone RG]

At last i know the guy that started all this sun bull crap.

Lol man im just kidding, its just that im a bit mad because its a great team, so good EVERY single sun team i see on the ladder is this, to be perfectly honest, i never had problems with it either because they were scrubs, or because i was using the biggest threat to your team: Sheer Force Landorus.

If it gets up a sub, id say its gg unless youre can predict every single of your opponent's attacks, since it OHKOs 4 out of 6 of your pokes with Earth Power (tho im not completely sure about Venusaur, ill run the calc later), and Dugtrio is not exactly a check considering it needs the Sash, and its Stone Miss does shit to Landorus, and Xatu is just begging to get hit with the HP Ice.

Of course, i have nothing to suggest here without taking away your perfect offensive core, unless you can find a way to fit Latias, which walls this Landorus to hell and back, but meh, i cant play sun for shit, so maybe you shouldnt take this reccomendation.

Of course, Luvdisc'd, great team, but people, stop stealing teams please. :]

 

[Darkmalice]

Excellent team.

I can suggest one small change. Dugtrio should have 26 HP IVs instead of 21. This is the max number of IVs that will let Dugtrio have a max power Reversal when it switches into Seismic Toss twice. Your HP becomes 206, and 6 / 206 = 2.9% max HP remaining. Reversal deals max damage if 3.124 or less max HP % is remaining.

 

[alexwolf]

It lets me stall out Ice Fang Hippowdon, Ferrothorn/Forretress/Scizor in Rain, etc. I just like the residual damage it provides, I guess. It's also a good way to rack up some damage on Tyranitar before I send in Dugtrio to clean up.

You stall out Ice Fang Hippo even without Rocky Helmet, as you have Toxic. Ferrothorn and Forretress are walled ang get 2-3hkoed even in rain (Ferro may get 4hkoed, but why does it matter when you can easily stall out his Gyro Balls and then not worry about anything else?). Finally against a Scizor in rain i don't really get what Rocky Helmet does... You should never switch into CB Scizor as U-turn does a fuckload of damage, and Bullet Punch is a 2hko after a bit of previous damage (like 10-15%). Against SD Scizor the same. Offensive ones outspeed and ohko with Bug Bite after SD, and defensive SD will just SD to +6, and then ohko, as Heat Wave doesn't 2hko in rain, and he has Roost. Oh and for Ttar you have Dugtrio anyway, which checkmates him, so why do the little damage from Rocky Helmet matter?

So i still don't get why you are using it over Lefties...

 

[Lavos]

At last i know the guy that started all this sun bull crap.

Lol man im just kidding, its just that im a bit mad because its a great team, so good EVERY single sun team i see on the ladder is this, to be perfectly honest, i never had problems with it either because they were scrubs, or because i was using the biggest threat to your team: Sheer Force Landorus.

If it gets up a sub, id say its gg unless youre can predict every single of your opponent's attacks, since it OHKOs 4 out of 6 of your pokes with Earth Power (tho im not completely sure about Venusaur, ill run the calc later), and Dugtrio is not exactly a check considering it needs the Sash, and its Stone Miss does shit to Landorus, and Xatu is just begging to get hit with the HP Ice.

Of course, i have nothing to suggest here without taking away your perfect offensive core, unless you can find a way to fit Latias, which walls this Landorus to hell and back, but meh, i cant play sun for shit, so maybe you shouldnt take this reccomendation.

Of course, Luvdisc'd, great team, but people, stop stealing teams please. :]

I wish I had room for Latias but I really just don't. I know any form of Sheer Force Lando is a huge threat to my team, and all I can really do is get rocks up early, keep Genesect extremely healthy, and try to keep Venusaur around to deter Landorus from setting up a Rock Polish or Substitute on me. Thanks for the rate.

Excellent team.

I can suggest one small change. Dugtrio should have 26 HP IVs instead of 21. This is the max number of IVs that will let Dugtrio have a max power Reversal when it switches into Seismic Toss twice. Your HP becomes 206, and 6 / 206 = 2.9% max HP remaining. Reversal deals max damage if 3.124 or less max HP % is remaining.

I'll change that right now. Good suggestion, I had no idea that's how Reversal worked lol.

You stall out Ice Fang Hippo even without Rocky Helmet, as you have Toxic. Ferrothorn and Forretress are walled ang get 2-3hkoed even in rain (Ferro may get 4hkoed, but why does it matter when you can easily stall out his Gyro Balls and then not worry about anything else?). Finally against a Scizor in rain i don't really get what Rocky Helmet does... You should never switch into CB Scizor as U-turn does a fuckload of damage, and Bullet Punch is a 2hko after a bit of previous damage (like 10-15%). Against SD Scizor the same. Offensive ones outspeed and ohko with Bug Bite after SD, and defensive SD will just SD to +6, and then ohko, as Heat Wave doesn't 2hko in rain, and he has Roost. Oh and for Ttar you have Dugtrio anyway, which checkmates him, so why do the little damage from Rocky Helmet matter?

So i still don't get why you are using it over Lefties...

It's mainly for Tyranitar, I can stall out a couple of uninvested Crunches and make Ttar take around 35% so then Earthquake will be a guaranteed KO and I don't have to worry about it setting up rocks in Duggy's face. I also forgot another good reason, which is breaking Dragonite's Multiscale so Genesect can finish it off, also very important for my team.

 

[alexwolf]

Ah ok, weakening Ttar to the point that Dugtrio will be able to ohko, so it won't set-up SR, and breaking Dragonite's MS are good reasons!

 

[Ghostbone]

This is a really great team, the only change I've made is nasty plot ninetales over defensive ninetales to keep up offensive pressure and wreck the rare shed shell heatran (+2 HP ground OHKOs)

 

[Gamester]

Lol I wasn't trying to put you down for it. Like I said it's near-impossible to really make an innovative sun-team. But looking back at one of the first great sun teams most after that are just updates.

Solar vengeance is like an updated Grimm70's team. He popularized and introduced the magma storm heatran as well as sunny day tales while I introduced wobbtrio and some funky sets.

This is like an update of that by making it more momentum based with xatu and genesect.

It's not a bad thing. In fact it's a great thing because it means your team sets the "new" standard for sun.

Edit: PK Gaming I never said the idea was taken. You are also arguing against a nonexistent point. smh. Also you proved that it was an update by saying newest threats. IE: if someone had tried to update an older successful sun team it would look like this one.

 

[PK Gaming]

Lol I wasn't trying to put you down for it. Like I said it's near-impossible to really make an innovative sun-team. But looking back at one of the first great sun teams most after that are just updates.

Solar vengeance is like an updated Grimm70's team. He popularized and introduced the magma storm heatran as well as sunny day tales while I introduced wobbtrio and some funky sets.

This is like an update of that by making it more momentum based with xatu and genesect.

It's not a bad thing. In fact it's a great thing because it means your team sets the "new" standard for sun.

Terribly sorry bro, but you're not making a lick of sense.

Despite what you believe, Pokemon isn't some grand game for enlightened players wherein all players will test out each & every Pokemon to their fullest extent and the greatest ideas are taken from past teams, root in the end. Lavos decided to make a sun team with Genesect and Xatu. It's as simple as that. If you have an assertion to make concerning this teams similarity to yours & grimms it should be relatively simple for you to simply go and play the team yourself to demonstrate this. Let's not forget by and large, that most sun teams are the same because they use the same fucking Pokemon constantly.

Is it really that hard for you to admit that his team has nothing to do with yours (or its progenitor?). Because it doesn't. It's not an update to Grimms team, because it's a team that literally use makes use of the newest threats (Heat Wave Xatu... err Xatu in general & Genesect). The rest of the team is a generic sun team (Tales, Dugtrio, Venusaur & a fire sweeper a.k.a Victini). You can try to shoe-horn your team into this thread, but your attempts are hollow & unsuccessful.

 

[Lavos]

Well, this RMT seems to be dying off, so I'd like to give a final thanks to all those who rated the team and all those who even took the time to read it. You made this RMT special.

edit: lol @ smitty werbenjaegermanjensen24

 

[kd24]

IT WAS AUGUST'S TEAM LAVOS SPAWN! HE PEAKED NUMBER ONE!

its a solid team

 

[Kidogo]

Meant to reply to this sooner but keep forgetting too, want to get this in before it officially dies according to lavos lol.
This is a really nice team and very original (although not anymore lol). Perhaps one of its only flaws is that it's very tailored to a high-level player such as yourself--without proper prediction and play it's much less effective--notably, the SR weakness is crippling if not played around correctly as you yourself do. Honestly, don't have much to say other than that the team's originality while sill being effective is very impressive. Luvidsced even if in its dying moments.

 

[asterat]

I do have one last thing to say before this thread dies. Why not use a screen on xatu to help with sand offense, or latios and other special attackers? Over toxic, you don't really need toxic.

 

[Lavos]

IT WAS AUGUST'S TEAM LAVOS SPAWN! HE PEAKED NUMBER ONE!

its a solid team

IT WAS HIS HAT, MR. KRABS! HE WAS NUMBER ONE!

I got r1 too though.

Very good team, Lavos. I like it a lot, compliments for have build it.

Thanks!

The second you mentioned this team on the weatherless thread, hate to say it, but I stole it.

I reached 1400 points on PO in less than 2 hours. Amazing team, I literally have no words, Luvdisc'd.

Lol I'm glad you stole it, one of the reasons I decided to post this was because everybody was using it on Showdown ladder after I leaked it on some random thread. Thanks for the compliment!

Meant to reply to this sooner but keep forgetting too, want to get this in before it officially dies according to lavos lol.
This is a really nice team and very original (although not anymore lol). Perhaps one of its only flaws is that it's very tailored to a high-level player such as yourself--without proper prediction and play it's much less effective--notably, the SR weakness is crippling if not played around correctly as you yourself do. Honestly, don't have much to say other than that the team's originality while sill being effective is very impressive. Luvidsced even if in its dying moments.

Gee, thanks haha, feels good coming from an accomplished player such as yourself. Despite all the ladder races we've had I'm glad you're around to be a good guy and such.

I do have one last thing to say before this thread dies. Why not use a screen on xatu to help with sand offense, or latios and other special attackers? Over toxic, you don't really need toxic.

It's mostly a matter of personal preference, I don't like screens in the slightest because they don't stick around long whereas Toxic is generally there to stay. It's nice to have Toxic so I can easily stay in on Hippowdon and Politoed, and also stall Tyranitar down to an amount of HP where Dugtrio can easily EQ it for the kill. If you want to use a screen over Toxic if you use the team, be my guest. If it works for you, it's fine by me.

 

[Nysyr]

Just curious what your method of dealing with TR reuniclus is if it get TR up.

I ran into one of these and had to play a switch mindgame till I could get genesect in safely on the turn TR was ending.

I think -Def over -SpD might help with that since you can actually live a FB + Shadowball, whereas -SpD is clean 2hkoed.

Edit: Derp didn't see that, shouldn't post at 4am

 

[Lavos]

Just curious what your method of dealing with TR reuniclus is if it get TR up.

I ran into one of these and had to play a switch mindgame till I could get genesect in safely on the turn TR was ending.

I think -Def over -SpD might help with that since you can actually live a FB + Shadowball, whereas -SpD is clean 2hkoed.

Depends on if you think your team is more DM weak than Reun weak I guess.

I already have a Hasty Nature on Genesect aka -Def, but yeah, I used to run Naive and Reuniclus is one of the reasons I switched. If I can get Victini in on the turn it sets up TR, I can live a Shadow Ball and OHKO with CB V-Create, too. It's never been a huge threat, but late-game I could see it posing a bit of a problem.

 

[TheStriker]

THIS IS AN AMAZING TEAM! I don't think you should change this, but I would invest 20 SpD and take a way the 4 Def and put it into the Speed Block. This way you could escape the wrathe of the main OU Scarfers and make use of your decent SpD. Scarf Latios only 2HKOs Venusaur with this giving you a chance to OKO it and Ice Shard won't do too much damage due to the amount of HP you weild. I though this would need to a full rate, but after I used the team it owned the opposer. Sand teams can give you trouble like you said so the EV Spread allows you to take hits from the anooying basically Dual Life Orb Landorus. Once Sheer Force Feralagator is released you might want to make some changes, but for now, this team is #1. I can tell this relied on every edit you can make! Nice Work!

 

[Shuckler]

Ugh... I hate you for being a genius. Now I'm going to have to run counters for this specifically... Which, by the way, are incredibly hard to think of. The only real way to beat that core is really good prediction... it's really the dugtrio-genesect part that kills. Almost every real counter there is to genesect (heatran, max sp.def jellicent, etc.) is taken out by dugtrio... I guess jelly IS the only thing I can think of to counter this team. And really, genesect can take out jelly pretty easily, and if genesect doesn't, victini OR venusaur kill it. Amazingly evil team Lavos, Ou archive anyone?

 

[Lavos]

ahhhhh so many posts...seriously guys I'm done with this team lol, thanks for all the super nice comments but I'd just like to let this RMT die in peace. once again, thanks everybody for all your posts, couldn't have made this as popular as it is without you

edit: yeah I guess I'm just gonna lock the thread. thanks for making this an excellent learning experience for me, especially Funk, BKC, and a couple others who helped me out a ton with learning how to get maximum potential from my EV spreads. I appreciate every single post that went into this RMT and I'm just glad it got so many views. it warms my heart to see eight or nine players using this team against me on ladder every single day (lol). anyways I've rambled on long enough as it is, later folks.

edit 2: just noticed 69 replies