Metagame Sketchmons

[OM]

Sceptile mega isn't on the tierlist?

sceptile doesn't have to worry about getting outsped by extreme speed anymore, and it's ability lightning rod combined with it's high speed and electrify can be very scary. It can completly counter any assualt vest user or slower scarfer or band/specs user because it just uses electrify to make the attack become electric and gain 1.5 spa through lightning rod. This should put sceptile very high on the tierlist as it works very well with good prediction and it can make him become a very dangerous sweeper while also not getting killed

Tier list is being worked on that's still the old one my guy

 

[Mr155551]

I hear this became the om of the month if so congrats 2nd of all let’s discuss electrify on mega sceptile do you think it needs banning or do you think there are ways around it

 

[Schpoonman]

Electrify Mega Sceptile is typically super uncompetitive. It's not always a great strategy, Mega Aero especially revenges it, but games can turn into "Do I get ganked by Electrify?" It doesn't add much if anything to the metagame and I wouldn't be sorry to see it go before it becomes a thing.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Sceptile has a number of problems. First, any priority abuser besides Aqua Jet / Water Shuriken users outspeed and likely high damage to it. Second scarfers do the same providing they're fast enough (anything over base 80 positive) and have their choice of move to use. Third, and probably most importantly, it's set up bait for anything that either boosts speed or has priority. If you're clicking Electrify your opponent is free to Dragon Dance or whatever. I don't think Electrify is nearly problematic enough to ban flat out, especially since I have yet to see high level players using the strategy very much.

EDIT: Thought I'd post some answers both defensive and offensive to Electrify Mega Sceptile. It's worth noting that not all of these will beat all of Mega Sceptile's sets, but that's mostly because of the nature of Sketchmons, where every Pokemon COULD be running that one thing that beats you. Some things that MScept could run that are worth considering are Tail Glow, Blue Flare, Earth Power, and Secret Sword.

Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Slack Off
- Knock Off / Pursuit
- Poison Jab / Pursuit
- Shadow Sneak

+1 252 SpA Sceptile-Mega Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk-Alola: 162-192 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Even at +1 this Muk-Alola comfortably walls Electrify Mega Sceptile, while also acting as a handy Psychic check. Shadow Sneak allows you to avoid Electrify completely, but gives you a bit of 4mss (you really want dual STAB, recovery, Pursuit, and Shadow Sneak, and maybe Ice Punch too for ground types). You could also run Assault Vest + U-Turn which takes less but gets worn down more easily.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 Atk / 68 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Defog

While it can't really switch into Mega Sceptile (252 SpA Sceptile-Mega Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 277-327 (86.8 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO) Landorus-Therian can revenge kill it with ease. EVs stolen from OU analysis but there are probably better ones for Sketchmons.

Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Fleur Cannon / Moonblast
- Volt Switch
- Secret Sword / Tail Glow / Roost / Calm Mind / Pain Split / one of Magearna's million other options who even cares

Sets Trick Room in Sceptile's face, then blasts it out of existence.

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Fusion Bolt
- Outrage
- Iron Head

This set is notable for messing with a Sceptile behind a sub better than most other offensive answers. Mamoswine can do something similar. Don't try this without the scarf, Dragon Pulse has a chance to OHKO you.

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Haze
- Toxic / Heal Bell / Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave

This is Chansey. You know what it does. Haze is there to remove any boosts Sceptile may accumulate through sloppy play. It doesn't do much back but it doesn't really need to. Watch out for Secret Sword.

 

[JTD783]

A couple quick questions:

Since Zygarde was just banned from OU it has been removed from the VR. Are there any plans to suspect test it here or will it stay in Ubers?

Dugtrio is banned but Arena Trap / Shadow Tag is not. Should this be changed so the abilities are banned but Dugtrio is legal? In practice this is probably irrelevant but I think that's how the ban works for OU.

 

[VCrakeV]

A couple quick questions:

Since Zygarde was just banned from OU it has been removed from the VR. Are there any plans to suspect test it here or will it stay in Ubers?

Dugtrio is banned but Arena Trap / Shadow Tag is not. Should this be changed so the abilities are banned but Dugtrio is legal? In practice this is probably irrelevant but I think that's how the ban works for OU.

I want to further this point: considering Zygarde's claim to fame is thousand arrows, should we suspect thousand arrows? There is a variety of Pokemon that can exploit it's great coverage, like choice band sand rush Excadrill, and more defensive pokemon, like Gliscor. The latter is almost like the PH set for Zygarde in AAA. And of course, choice scarf Lando is more free to click its STAB move if it opts for t arrows.

Most importantly, just like with Zygarde, many Pokemon can free up moveslots when using t arrows. Double dance lando can use flynium z and not be walked by celesteela. Gliscor can run a similar DD set, sub/protect/SD, or a defog set. Worst of all, you don't even know if they are running t arrows.

 

[Fissure]

A couple quick questions:

Since Zygarde was just banned from OU it has been removed from the VR. Are there any plans to suspect test it here or will it stay in Ubers?

Dugtrio is banned but Arena Trap / Shadow Tag is not. Should this be changed so the abilities are banned but Dugtrio is legal? In practice this is probably irrelevant but I think that's how the ban works for OU.

1. I haven't talked with the council yet about any plans concerning zygarde, but if you want my opinion on the matter, I'm fine with keeping it banned as OU banned it and we are an OU based metagame. If there is enough support from the community or council, I would be down with bringing it back. Basically I'm indifferent on the matter and will do whatever the majority wants.

2. You actually can use Dugtrio (without arena trap of course) in sketchmons. It isn't in the bans, only in the ban history on the first post (Not gonna lie, I had to double check if it was in the bans cause I always forget to edit stuff).

I want to further this point: considering Zygarde's claim to fame is thousand arrows, should we suspect thousand arrows? There is a variety of Pokemon that can exploit it's great coverage, like choice band sand rush Excadrill, and more defensive pokemon, like Gliscor. The latter is almost like the PH set for Zygarde in AAA. And of course, choice scarf Lando is more free to click its STAB move if it opts for t arrows.

Most importantly, just like with Zygarde, many Pokemon can free up moveslots when using t arrows. Double dance lando can use flynium z and not be walked by celesteela. Gliscor can run a similar DD set, sub/protect/SD, or a defog set. Worst of all, you don't even know if they are running t arrows.

At this time, thousand arrows hasn't really been brought up much as far as I could see. Personally, I do not find it that concerning, except in the case of Excadrill. But I'm not sure if that is just Sand Rush being a good ability or if that is Thousand Arrows being broken cause Excadrill can still sketch something like Sunsteel Strike, fire coverage, or ice coverage and still be a threat. There are answers to Thousand Arrows users in the form of defensive checks (Landorus-Therian, Quagsire, Tangrowth, Buzzwole, Ferrothorn [not my favorite, but it can work], just really defensive mons in general like Slowbro, Suicune, Tapu Fini, and Garchomp) and offensive mons that can sketch a move that can ohko the Thousand Arrows user. It ultimately comes down to whether or not if the move is unhealthy or over centralizing to the point where it stifles the team building process, which I don't think is the case.

In the case of not knowing if your opponent is even running Thousand Arrows in the first place, such as with your Lando-T example, this is just like with every other move that can be sketched. You can only sketch a move once and you need to guess what your opponent is running by making strategic plays to see its moveset. You could also make an educated guess based on previous experiences, what coverage that mon desperately needs, or by going with what you use / would use. The same holds true for standard competitive play in the sense that a mon can have several different movesets that it can run and you won't know which one it has until you see it. You can also make educated guesses based on the other team members and what role that certain mon would fill or provide to the rest of the team. That's just the name of the game.

Anyways~ getting back on track. I do agree that Thousand Arrows is a terrific move, but there hasn't really been any discussion on it yet besides you two (I went as far back in the thread as August 2017. It was mentioned 4 times and on all four occasions, it was just the user saying that they used the move on "x" mon and that it was good. No other user really voiced their opinion on the matter). So to answer your question, as of right now, there has been no talk of a Thousand Arrows suspect and Thousand Arrows is probably not gonna be suspected as there has not been enough discussion or arguments against it. If no one voices their thoughts on any potential issues, then I'm just going to assume that everyone thinks that it is fine. If not enough people do this, then its just gonna basically be the council deciding everything. With that said, I would like to thank the previous 5 users in the thread for getting some discussions started.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

This is also a topic that people haven’t brought up, but I think V-create needs to be looked at. It’s basically a free Z-move with not enough drawback and it’s more powerful than many STAB moves.

Yeah, it’s not banned in STABmons because only Fire type has access to it, but when all mons have access to it, it is a problem. Serperior is just one problem. Kyurem-Black with V-create basically turn into Physical Reshiram, with Mold Breaker and Fire/Dragon coverage. Not even Heatran can take it. Mega Dactyl is another one that benefits it, because it does the same damage as the common Dragon Ascent. Landorus-T being countered by skarmory? V-create! It does the same as Brave Bird/Ascent but nothing resists your Pdon-like coverage with V-create + EdgeQuake +U-turn because Giratina doesn’t exist. See what I mean?

 

[Mudkip727]

Komala @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Strength Sap
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Play Rough

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Infestation
- Shore Up

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Leaf Storm
- V-create
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Slowbro @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Volt Switch
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock

Mimikyu @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough

Komala is a dope pokemon to use with sleep talk+whirlwind in this meta. Sure it's hard to set up all hazards and hope that the opponent doesn't get rid of them immediately, but with all the set-up sweepers in the tier, komala acts as a decent check and shuffler that other sweepers(Mine has Serp and Mimikyu) can clean up the rest

 

[Ivy]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sketchmons-844231368
Komala whirlwind might be a slight issue. Seems like it's been banned in any meta that can create an analogue of this combination. It's not incredibly hard to outspeed or destroy with magic bounce, but those are still quite limited options.

 

[VCrakeV]

What are some Blace checks that can switch in on Moongeist Beam sets and Secret Sword sets? I've had trouble thinking of one lol

 

[The Official Glyx]

What are some Blace checks that can switch in on Moongeist Beam sets and Secret Sword sets? I've had trouble thinking of one lol

AV Slowking

calc

252 SpA Blacephalon Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

Spdef Gyarados (legitimately not bad)
Spdef Gliscor
Goodra
Mandibuzz
Muk-A
Toxapex
Nihilego
Tentacruel
Spdef Araquanid? (eh)
Mantine
Spdef Meloetta?
Milotic
Gigalith (not vs Specs)
Audino
Diancie
Vaporeon
Type Null

This is about everything I could find looking through my teambuilder and scrolling through all the tiers. Some are definitely better than others.

 

[VCrakeV]

AV Slowking

calc

252 SpA Blacephalon Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

Spdef Gyarados (legitimately not bad)
Spdef Gliscor
Goodra
Mandibuzz
Muk-A
Toxapex
Nihilego
Tentacruel
Spdef Araquanid? (eh)
Mantine
Spdef Meloetta?
Milotic
Gigalith (not vs Specs)
Audino
Diancie
Vaporeon
Type Null

This is about everything I could find looking through my teambuilder and scrolling through all the tiers. Some are definitely better than others.

That's pretty cool, I was thinking of AV Slowking to check Heatran anyway, and spin on it. I was originally going to use max special attack to 2HKO Tapu Lele, but I guess that isn't important if you're that tanky lol

 

[AIPS]

I love Perish trapping, and now you only need to learn 3 of the 4 moves for a successful perish trapper, so:
Yuk (Toxapex) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 240 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- Infestation
- Baneful Bunker
- Recover

I hate using meta mons, but for some reason I don't really see many people use Toxapex, so I don't feel bad.

Other mons can can be successful perish trappers (this will only refer to pokemon with Block/Mean Look/Infestestion/trapping attacking move(like Anchor Shot) because they're the best trapping moves):
Quagsire (Unaware, one weakness, Volt Switch immune), Gastrodon (bulky, one weakness, Volt Switch immune), Mew (bulky, unpredictable), Tangrowth (Bulky, Regenerator), Pallosand (3 immunities, can't be counter-trapped, Volt Switch immune), Vileplume (Strength Sap),
Illumise (Prankster), Mandibuzz (bulky, nice typing), Mega-Sableye (Magic Bounce, bulky, one weakness, can't be counter-trapped),
Umbreon (very bulky), Serperior (unpredictable), Mega-Venusaur (very bulky), Mega-Slowbro (very physically bulky), Slowking,
Blissey (very specially bulky), Pyukumuku (Unaware, very bulky, 2 weaknesses), Lapras (bulky),
Mega-Altaria (bulky, nice typing, unpredictable, can have an attacking trapping move (sketching Anchor Shot)),
Decidueye (bulky, can't be counter-trapped, attacking trapping move)

I'd recommend Mega-Sableye (- Perish Song- Mean Look- Protect- Recover) if you don't have a mega

 

[VCrakeV]

I love Perish trapping, and now you only need to learn 3 of the 4 moves for a successful perish trapper, so:
Yuk (Toxapex) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 240 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- Infestation
- Baneful Bunker
- Recover

I hate using meta mons, but for some reason I don't really see many people use Toxapex, so I don't feel bad.

Other mons can can be successful perish trappers (this will only refer to pokemon with Block/Mean Look/Infestestion/trapping attacking move(like Anchor Shot) because they're the best trapping moves):
Quagsire (Unaware, one weakness), Gastrodon (bulky, one weakness), Mew (bulky, unpredictable), Tangrowth (Bulky, Regenerator),
Pallosand (3 immunities, can't be counter-trapped), Vileplume (Strength Sap), Illumise (Prankster), Mandibuzz (bulky, nice typing),
Mega-Sableye (Magic Bounce, bulky, one weakness, can't be counter-trapped), Umbreon (very bulky), Serperior (unpredictable),
Mega-Venusaur (very bulky), Mega-Slowbro (very physically bulky), Slowking, Blissey (very specially bulky), Lapras (bulky),
Mega-Altaria (bulky, nice typing, unpredictable, can have an attacking trapping move (sketching Anchor Shot)),
Decidueye (bulky, can't be counter-trapped, attacking trapping move)

I'd recommend Mega-Sableye (- Perish Song- Mean Look- Protect- Recover) if you don't have a mega

Pyukumuku is a good option too, since it doesn't have many options to take down Pokemon, but can tank hits with ease. It's especially good on stall for eliminating setup sweepers, though you'll probably have to sack it to perish song or a teammate to an incoming boosted attack (probably the case for most perish trappers facing a setup sweeper though).

That said, I'm also fancying a Pyukumuku set with clamp over block, to provide chip damage and make it useful against taunt and sub users like Blace (though if you're using perish song, it's worth noting that it bypasses sub).

 

[Crimson Ecstasy]

Ban Tranaform please. It's OP on mons with very high hp.

 

[VCrakeV]

Ban Tranaform please. It's OP on mons with very high hp.

I believe there has been discussion on this before. Transform isn't immediate like imposter (which is why the latter is banned in metas like AAA), so you can taunt it before it transforms. If you don't have taunt, accept the fact that your sweeper got checked, and switch out. I believe that's the reasoning that was provided.

 

[AIPS]

Pyukumuku is a good option too, since it doesn't have many options to take down Pokemon, but can tank hits with ease. It's especially good on stall for eliminating setup sweepers, though you'll probably have to sack it to perish song or a teammate to an incoming boosted attack (probably the case for most perish trappers facing a setup sweeper though).

That said, I'm also fancying a Pyukumuku set with clamp over block, to provide chip damage and make it useful against taunt and sub users like Blace (though if you're using perish song, it's worth noting that it bypasses sub).

Yea, but you can't sketch 2 moves, and and there's infestation which affects everything and doesn't miss, while clamp can miss and is immune by Water Absorb/ Storm Drain/ Dry Skin Pokemon
Plus there's Anchor Shot so you can trap Magic Guard and Magic Bounce Pokemon

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

I believe there has been discussion on this before. Transform isn't immediate like imposter (which is why the latter is banned in metas like AAA), so you can taunt it before it transforms. If you don't have taunt, accept the fact that your sweeper got checked, and switch out. I believe that's the reasoning that was provided.

Or, just hit hard the user. Your chansey try to transform in front of Tapu Koko? Survive a Bolt Strike first. If it did at least 70%, you’re making it unable to do it’s job as a sweeper check.

 

[VCrakeV]

Yea, but you can't sketch 2 moves, and and there's infestation which affects everything and doesn't miss, while clamp can miss and is immune by Water Absorb/ Storm Drain/ Dry Skin Pokemon
Plus there's Anchor Shot so you can trap Magic Guard and Magic Bounce Pokemon

Yeah, you can use infestation on Pyukumuku instead if you want. You don't need perish song, because you chip with infestation and toxic. Gastro acid allows clamp to hit whatever, which deals a fair bit to Blace. It also turns the tables on Gliscor, and allows you to beat Reuniclus.

Edit: Clamp notably breaks Blace's sub, even the relatively bulky speed boosting sets. Pyukumuku is a great candidate for a Blace check, so if you're using it, you should make it so it can check Blace.

 

[Schpoonman]

Here's a Hyper Offense team I've been running that I think has some real potential.

https://pokepast.es/1dd5eb4a76910e31

Mega Gyarados

When I'm not playing OMs I play UU, and while I never saw Mega Gyarados there, I once posited the idea of dropping it and was immediately met with pretty stark negatives. It's also notably banned in Inheritance, last month's OMotM. It's no less threatening here. Poison Jab hits the bulky Fairies that wall Gyarados' STABs, and cannot miss while still carrying its respectable 30% chance to Poison. Gyarados unfortunately still doesn't outspeed base 150s after a Dragon Dance even if Jolly, so I opted for more power. Mega Gyarados finally provides provides important defensive benefits for the team: Blacephalon needs Secret Sword to KO Gyarados from full when Mega. Otherwise, you live up to +3 Eruption, letting Gyarados check Scarf Blace.

Nyandorus

Landorus bores me to fucking tears, but it's been one of the best legal Pokemon for almost ten years now and I don't see that changing at all unless Mega Mamoswine becomes a thing. Standard Scarf set, now with recoilless Flying coverage, with Knock Off for the utility of usually taking out other Scarf Landorus. Samuel Hayden once said "It works!" when referring to a pretty novel deal with the devil, and that's what using Scarf Landorus feels like to me.

Greninja

Ironically walled by Fire-types, this Greninja acts as a lure of sorts. It's also my Spikes setter, and it's a pretty damn good one at that. It's not a stretch to say that no team should lack hazard control in Sketchmons which hurts Spikes' viability, but when pulled off well it's a thing of beauty to behold.

Mamoswine

Mamoswine started as an Electrify Sceptile check and became probably my favorite Pokemon on this squad. I originally ran it with Thousand Arrows, but then I started noticing that Ferrothorn was a pain if Greninja and Zeraora were down. Sacred Fire rounds out Mamoswine's coverage anyway, and it's a nice contact-free move, unlike Superpower.

Azelf

Suicide lead again acting as a bit of a lure. Azelf attracts Dark-types and the Blobs like crazy, so what better than Secret Sword to (almost) nuke all the Tyranitars that come in? It actually needs a boost to KO a non-Mega Tyranitar from full, unfortunately. This spot still needs work.

Magearna

Magearna finally has all the coverage it's ever wanted. Ice/Ground is basically as hard to wall as BoltBeam. Fleur Cannon is Fleur Cannon, and it can Twinkle Tackle to blow almost anything that takes neutral damage from it after a boost. Too bad Scarf Blacephalon still outspeeds you at +2.

Changed Heracross to Magearna and Zeraora to Azelf. Magearna once again proves it's probably a top 3 Pokemon, and this set is one of a dozen that it could run.

 

[VCrakeV]

Is there much point in using an electric move on V-Create Golem-A? V-Create does more to Celesteela than any non-sketched electric move Golem-A can learn, and it mostly just wants to take down steel types. What would it use in place of an electric move?

Also, is Magnezone generally better? It seems like even in this meta, it can't effectively trap both Heatran and Ferrothorn (the latter requires specs or sketched fire move to not be stalled out by leech seed and recovery, the former requires scarf and earth power). Perhaps it's better at trapping what it's set is built to trap, whereas Golem-A is a jack of all trades?

 

[Schpoonman]

I haven't tried Magnet Pull yet, but I don't see a lot of point in running it. Just about everything gets walled by a Steel-type or two, so anti-Steel coverage is actually extremely common. Magnezone and Golem are both slow and rife with weaknesses, including both being 4x weak to Ground. It's easier to just have Sacred Fire, Blue Flare, or V-create sitting in the pocket.

Speaking of, V-create and Contrary is fucking dumb. I don't usually mind it on other Pokemon (though losing what you thought was a safe switch sucks), but short of Flash Fire (on exactly one viable Pokemon) or immediately hard switching to your maybe counter I don't see a stop to it.

 

[VCrakeV]

I haven't tried Magnet Pull yet, but I don't see a lot of point in running it. Just about everything gets walled by a Steel-type or two, so anti-Steel coverage is actually extremely common. Magnezone and Golem are both slow and rife with weaknesses, including both being 4x weak to Ground. It's easier to just have Sacred Fire, Blue Flare, or V-create sitting in the pocket.

Speaking of, V-create and Contrary is fucking dumb. I don't usually mind it on other Pokemon (though losing what you thought was a safe switch sucks), but short of Flash Fire (on exactly one viable Pokemon) or immediately hard switching to your maybe counter I don't see a stop to it.

Yeah, V-Create is absurd, especially on Pokemon you don't expect it on. Kyurem Black doesn't miss icicle crash, since it's weaker than V-Create even after STAB, and it can still use ice beam for coverage. V-Create annihilates would-be checks, like Mega Aggron, Ferrothorn, and Avalugg. Earth Power stomps on the only viable Flash Fire user.

Zard X is absurd with it, just claiming KOs on those that don't resist, and 2HKOing a variety of resists. Mega Mawile breaks would-be checks, namely bulky steel types.

I'm not sure if it's ban-worthy, but V-Create at least deserves some discussion.

 

[Gman]

I agree with the last post.

I've been running adamant scarf weavile and V-create is all it needs to send general weavile switch-ins to oblivion. Admittedly, I usually need to switch out afterwards, but that's not too high a price for losing an otherwise counter, especially with a defensive backbone to sponge attacks and switch out.

It's arguably sort of broken on serperior, since it only has upsides. On other physical attackers, however, should you decide not to run serp, it works as a reusable Z-Move that may grant perfect coverage, doesn't have an overwhelming downside, is quite splashable, chips even fire resists (bar heatran) and, until revealed, can potentially be found on any opposing physical attacker.

Imho, it should definitely be the subject of further discussion!