Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

[hecatomb]

To clarify - this discussion that I am bringing to the table is solely for ranking Pheromosa - not for whether or not Pheromosa should be banned. I feel that Pheromosa's ranking in the VR thread is a very good discussion point considering its SPL usage as well as recent revelations with sets such as Specs and Quiver Dance. Please do not derail this into whether Pheromosa should be banned or not.

Discussing on why Pheromosa should be A+ or remain within the A tier is the point of why I brought up Pheromosa. We've waited a while for the tier to settle since the Genesect ban and we have more professional scene using the Pokemon. I do not want this topic suddenly tabled simply because people are arguing whether or not it should be banned (and whether you want it to or not is irrelevant in this thread).

Yes but I dont have to agree with you. The real fact is there is no downside of starting with Pheromosa, you pretty much get free damage cause it outspeeds everything, also it stops ground types from setting up rocks, unless they want to die to ice beam. I do think Pheromosa right now could get to S- rank maybe later down the road.

Then again everything with Greninja is a guessing game, not even Pheromosa is a real counter, since you can just get 1 shot by gunkshot. You can switch to counter Greninja, then again it can just change its type to almost anything and hope it just doesnt counter

 

[HotFuzzBall]

Yes but I dont have to agree with you, stop being a dictator. The real fact is there is no downside of starting with Pheromosa, you pretty much get free damage cause it outspeeds everything, also it stops ground types from setting up rocks, unless they want to die to ice beam. I do think Pheromosa right now could get to S- rank maybe later down the road.

He's not trying to be a dictator lol, he's just clarifying what his intent for bringing up Pheromosa's ranking to avoid any misunderstandings.

Anyways, back on the topic... Pheromosa is a mixed bag for me. The SPL has showed us the newfound unpredictability of Pheromosa very well. We saw sets like Quiver Dance, Rapid Spin, Scarf (I think not sure) as well as the standard Life Orb. I think Pheromosa's old playstyle of just spamming U-turn until late game is still part of our mindset, for me at least it is, that these new sets are a surprise to us I guess (idk what I'm saying qq). So with that in mind, Pheromosa can take advantage of an anticipated switch to either spin away hazards or set-up Quiver Dance to throw the opponent off-guard. In a way, I feel that it is similar to the Greninjas in a way since there really isn't a way to scout which Pheromosa variant the opponent is using, so a bit of prediction is needed.

So now with that rant out of the way... I believe Pheromosa should warrant a rise to A+ due to the unpredictability of it as of now. Now players have to remember that there are new Pheromosa sets out there that can take advantage the "spamming U-turn" mindset. Also Pheromosa is doing quite well in the meta with the popularity of Mega-Metagross, Protean Greninja and Tapu Lele to revenge kill. The decline of priority users like Weavile, Azumarill and Mega-Scizor also prevents Phero from being randomly revenge killed as well. Like Colonel M said, Mega-Metagross nowadays opt for Pursuit instead of Bullet Punch since it is usually paired up with Tapu Lele therefore, it seems really redundant to run it. The presence of trapping with Magnezone and Dugtrio helps remove threats to Pheromosa such as Celesteela and Toxapex which also helps her/it lot.

 

[Gotham-Mimiqui]

Can you please stop talking about stuff getting one shot and getting free damage and what not. You are bringing the same argument over and over in this thread, this is Pokémon strat here, there are multiple Pokémon to account for before using your Pheromosa as a dumb damage machine, her Stabs alone are two of the most resisted types in this Meta, and Phero is now much more deep than simple LO or scarf, as people were creative enough to make Interesting sets where you can even invest in her poor defenses (Quiver Dance). You werent forced to say that to Gary either ;It's not a battle of "opinions" here, It's about making constructive arguments, which you arent doing.

 

[Colonel M]

Feels good to tyrannize again.

On a side note let's continue our discussion with Pheromosa. There was a particular replay someone showed me this week that caught my eye:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-241152

This is Week 3 with PDC vs Mazary. This is a great replay that showscases that Pheromosa's weakest of sets (Choice Scarf) can be quite effective in the right hands and at the right time. Already in Turn 1 we see a pretty big advantage for Mazary - using Choice Scarf it guarantees outspeeding Landorus-T and goes straight for the Ice Beam OHKO. Losing Landorus-T means there isn't much safety to purposely lower Pheromosa's Attack stat and makes it a lot more awkward to switch into High Jump Kick, which eventually seals the deal throughout the match. Though the match was neck-to-neck and, what I thought, was still a good watch it proves that even the worst of Pheromosa's sets can be deadly against the right teams and in the right hands.

Yes but I dont have to agree with you. The real fact is there is no downside of starting with Pheromosa, you pretty much get free damage cause it outspeeds everything, also it stops ground types from setting up rocks, unless they want to die to ice beam.

This is not always a safe scenario. Pheromosa is better as a Pokemon that is bluffed. Sometimes you can get away with revealing what you are and attempting to put that fear into your opponent (that SPL match is a pretty good example of it - even if it was accidental). Leading with Pheromosa isn't always ideal because you'll probably give away a critical move to reveal what exactly Pheromosa's set and potential items are. Pheromosa is arguably best in its pocket position where you keep your opponent guessing what set it is until it is too late. Some teams lead with Azelf for example and really don't give a damn about Pheromosa at the end result unless it's Rapid Spin or something anyway.

I do think Pheromosa right now could get to S- rank maybe later down the road.

Let's not jump ahead of ourselves. Many people praised Tapu Fini heavily and, while it's still a good Pokemon, it is starting to show its flaws and weaknesses in that it's worn down a lot over time without having an item like Icium Z with Haze - which also means giving up a moveslot to dedicate healing Tapu Fini. We've seen many threats go up and down on the VR thread - some have had significant jumps. Remember when Scolipede was sitting really damn low for the longest time until the Hydro Vortex Scolipede became big in SPL Week 1? Bronzong going from a dead mon to a decent mon? A lot of things happen - especially in a metagame that is so young. I think it is rather hasty to declare what a Pokemon may or may not become without a lot of emperical evidence supporting it.

Then again everything with Greninja is a guessing game, not even Pheromosa is a real counter, since you can just get 1 shot by gunkshot. You can switch to counter Greninja, then again it can just change its type to almost anything and hope it just doesnt counter

Not going to lie - your logic is rather... uh... odd.

Pheromosa is not a counter to Greninja - and even then it is a shoddy check. A counter is a Pokemon that can switch into a Pokemon with little trouble and threaten the opposing Pokemon out. Pheromosa cannot switch into most moves that Greninja will use in its repitoire without taking massive damage or being KOed. Furthermore, Ash-Greninja still has Water Shuriken to check Pheromosa. Counter was a logical term that has not been as commonly used as it was back in ADV - hence when checks were more commonly adapted and accepteable in the advent of DPP.

 

[Psycho Unleashed]

GRENINJA-ASH A+ ->A


Greninja-Ash certainly has become threatening this tier, but not A+ Rank


Greninja @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- U-turn


This is the only set on Ash-Greninja THAT IS ACTUALLY VIABLE.


My Problems with Ash

-Ash Greninja’s LO Variant is weak
-Ash Greninja is predictable because it only has one set
-Pre-Ash Greninja is walled by A LOT of things.
-Post-Ash Greninja can be killed by almost anything that outspeeds it.
-Ash-Greninja is frail.
-Ash is useless against stall.
-Some of the most common pokemon in the tier wall it. *cough cough Fini*
-Anything that can take a hit from Ash basically wins against it
-Hydro Miss is it’s main offensive move.
-Specs locks it into one move which can be predicted and walled by most of the tier.
-U-Turn is usually it’s only option 95% of the time.
-Water Shuriken doesn’t do enough damage
-Scarfers that have multiple sets (i.e Garchomp, Nihilego, Hoopa-U,Landorus) can surprise Greninja-Ash. The opponent may not use Water Shuriken because they have no idea what’s in store for them
-Tapu Lele as a revenge killer

 

[matthewc20090]

Your logic is a bit flawed here as you could make the same argument for a lot of pokemon. for example:

My problems with Tapu Lele
- Some of the most common Steel types wall it
- HP Fire is necessary because steel types
- Useless against stall because Dugtrio
- 95 speed isn't good enough
- Lele is too frail

I could go on, but you see the problem? You can't just list the obvious flaws a Pokemon has and call that reasoning. Although I do agree that Ash gren is ranked too high

To make this post not a complete waste I'll make a nom:

-> B+
In the current metagame, Tapu Lele almost totally outclasses Alakazam. Although Alakazam has better speed, Tapu Lele has better typing, more power, and can hold an item. Thus, Zam's niche as a revenge killer is outclassed by Scarf Lele. To justify Alakzam's usage, it needs either Sub or Taunt or maybe Encore. Additionally it shares all the same checks and counters Lele has, and since almost every team has a lele check Zam's checks are more common too. You could argue that Alakazam can switch moves, something Scarf Lele can't, but in the hands of a decent player neither Lele nor Alakazam should need to switch moves. You predict, get off a hit and switch out.

from spl week 2
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pokebankou-237296
Every time Alakazam comes in, Celesteela can easily come in and fire off a leech seed. This makes going into Alakazam a huge drain in momentum. Had it been Scarf Lele, ES needed to scout for a Thunderbolt.

 

[tenkai]

Your logic is a bit flawed here as you could make the same argument for a lot of pokemon. for example:

My problems with Tapu Lele
- Some of the most common Steel types wall it
- HP Fire is necessary because steel types
- Useless against stall because Dugtrio
- 95 speed isn't good enough
- Lele is too frail

I could go on, but you see the problem? You can't just list the obvious flaws a Pokemon has and call that reasoning. Although I do agree that Ash gren is ranked too high

To make this post not a complete waste I'll make a nom:

-> B+
In the current metagame, Tapu Lele almost totally outclasses Alakazam. Although Alakazam has better speed, Tapu Lele has better typing, more power, and can hold an item. Thus, Zam's niche as a revenge killer is outclassed by Scarf Lele. To justify Alakzam's usage, it needs either Sub or Taunt or maybe Encore. Additionally it shares all the same checks and counters Lele has, and since almost every team has a lele check Zam's checks are more common too. You could argue that Alakazam can switch moves, something Scarf Lele can't, but in the hands of a decent player neither Lele nor Alakazam should need to switch moves. You predict, get off a hit and switch out.

from spl week 2
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pokebankou-237296
Every time Alakazam comes in, Celesteela can easily come in and fire off a leech seed. This makes going into Alakazam a huge drain in momentum. Had it been Scarf Lele, ES needed to scout for a Thunderbolt.

Actually, sharing checks with lele isn't really a bad thing in zams case. Lele and zam work together really well as partners for that very reason, they share checks so when using the two together you tend to overload them. Lele also powers up zams stab moves and gives it a nice immunity to priority. Leles not really competition for zam, rather its one of its best partners. Personally i dont really care which rank alakazam ends up in, but if it moves down it shuldnt be because of lele

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

from spl week 2
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pokebankou-237296
Every time Alakazam comes in, Celesteela can easily come in and fire off a leech seed. This makes going into Alakazam a huge drain in momentum. Had it been Scarf Lele, ES needed to scout for a Thunderbolt.

You missed the part where Alakazam would have cleaned at the end had it not been paralyzed, which scarf lele couldn't have done against a combination of a dark type and a bulky poison. Furthermore, a choice-locked Tbolt is very easy to take advantage of and SDef Celesteela is not 2HKOed by it, both mons have issues with fighting-neutral steels, Alakazam just has it a bit worse.

Saying Mega Alakazam is "almost totally outclassed" by lele is just untrue, and the current gap in viability (S and A-) I feel already notes how much more viable lele is.

 

[Gary]

VR UPDATE


Rises

A ---> A+

B- ---> B

Unranked ---> C+

Unranked ---> C-
Drops

A ---> A-

A ---> A-

A- ---> B+

A- ---> B+

A- ---> B+

A- ---> B+

B+ ---> B

B ---> B-

B ---> B-

B ---> B-

Pretty big update, so I'm not going to explain everything in detail unless someone has a question about our reasoning's for a Pokemon's placement. A few I will explain though. Garchomp has been getting a huge amount of usage in SPL and in general because of its amazing utility as an offensive rocker, wallbreaker, and one of the best Choice Scarfers in the tier. It's one of the best offensive glue Pokemon in the tier that fits on almost just as many teams as Landorus-T, so we felt like it deserved a raise. Hoopa-U dropped because it has struggled to find a place on many offensive teams due to its subpar Speed and lack of defensive synergy, and its main niche as a stallbreaker has been heavily hindered by the usage of Dugtrio on stall teams. Magnezone was put in A- simply because it didn't really make sense having it above Dugtrio, although it is arguably more splashable, Dugtrio is very influential for its support it provides for stall as well as other teams. Everything else dropping was either discussed in here for some time, or we felt that some Pokemon were higher than they should be, such as Volcanion, Dragonite, and Mantine. Zong was added because of the splash it has been making in SPL, while Blissey and Pyukumuku we felt had enough of a niche to be put in the lowest rank. If you want to see an example of Pyukumuku in action, check out this SPL replay.

Alright so enough time has past where we think that adding discussion points will help promote better discussion and hopefully help us have a better idea on more controversial Pokemon and where to rank them. Remember, you are allowed to veer off from the discussion points, but please try not to derail the entire thread.

Discussion Points

A ---> A+

A- ---> B+

B+ ---> A-

C ---> Somewhere higher

And go!

 

[palkia246]

Hi. Sorry if this isn't appropriate to be asked here but what made Mega Sharpedo rise? I don't think there was any discussion regarding the matter so just curious.

 

[Gary]

Hi. Sorry if this isn't appropriate to be asked here but what made Mega Sharpedo rise? I don't think there was any discussion regarding the matter so just curious.

Mega Sharky was just deemed to be better than most of the Pokemon found in B-, especially when compared to Mega Gyara which is really falling off right now. Mega Shark's ability to hit very hard as well as muscle through its previous checks such as Moonguss, Pex, Venu, and Keldeo with Psychic Fangs is really huge for it and really limits what can reliably switch into it. On top of that, it has the capability to clean teams quite nicely late game, because Crunch is a really solid sweeping option that can OHKO quite a few Pokemon found on offense. It hasn't had a huge shift in viability that recently or anything, but we honestly just thought it was placed too low initially, and it should have been higher.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

The best change I'm confused about is marowak dropping, it's raw ghost stab smashing through whatever and being immune to so much is spooky

 

[DrakeBugatti]

Can you elaborate on the Magnezone drop? Although dugtrio traps it and does a few of the same things, Zone can reliably remove non shed shell celesteela/skarm, which dug can't, and can counter Lele if it doesn't click a hidden power/focus blast. It does a lot for a team and also does things no other mon does. Zone is A imo

 

[hecatomb]

I dont think tapu lele is going to drop out of S rank anytime soon seeing how psychic surge just buffs mega metagross. Unless suspect happens of course.

Protean Greninja I still think will stay in S rank-since its just a guessing game with it, and has real no counters since it can just change its type into almost anything.

 

[ConstantCompanion]

Can you elaborate on the Magnezone drop?

You mentioned a few reasons, Shed Shell is now a common item on Skarmory and even sees some usage on Celesteela so Magnezone needs a proper Knock off on these Pokemon to effectivly trap them.
And while it can check in some common Attackers like Lele,Nihilego and Magearna its not an outstanding pivot. Also choice locked Thunderbolt and idden Power Fire are extremly easy to take advantage of.

Its not bad by any means, but people are now a bit more prepared for trappers and Magnezone isnt as good as the other A Ranks right now.

 

[hecatomb]

The best change I'm confused about is marowak dropping, it's raw ghost stab smashing through whatever and being immune to so much is spooky

marowaks speed is what hurts it, other fire types like even heatran can kill it with earthpower, Char X can just earthquake it. Also it doesnt help that a million greninjas and landorus t are running around ready to 1 shot it.

 

[Camino]

Honestly, I think most people use Alolawak incorrectly. Lightningrod seems to be the primary reason people use the thing without considering using it simply for its good typing and incredible power.

When using Lightningrod, it's wise to use Fire Punch instead of Flare Blitz: Using Lightningrod means that Alolawak likely earned a spot on the team to help patch a weakness to certain mons that use powerful electric moves. Using Flare Blitz hampers Alolawak in its ability to repeatedly do its job throughout the match, since if it doesn't want to be setup bait, it has to use Thick Club over Leftovers anyway. All the recoil + no recovery at all mean that Alolawak won't be able to reliably do what you put it on the team to do in the first place. However, this means that its ability to deal lots of damage to the other team is significantly reduced. Defensive Lightningrod Alolawak is stuck losing to mons like Lando-T and Fini, which makes using Alolawak a huge liability for most teams, regardless of the fact that it provides a special utility that no other mon really can. Ultimately, the most common Alolawak, defensive Lightningrod, isn't surprising enough anymore to work well most of the time and simply gives other teams too many chances to get their powerful, momentum shifting mons in the match with relative ease.

What y'all should realize is that Alolawak's best use isn't as a glue. Its best use is as an all out attacker that supports the rest of the team by chunking or flat out eliminating common stops to otherwise amazing offensive mons (Fini stopping Greninja, Lando-T halting non Ice Punch Meta etc.) This is so unexpected but so effective in the current meta. Running enough speed to creep base 70 walls (Mantine, Skarm etc.), which also beats common base 65s like Magearna and Pelipper, takes 208 EVs. Pump it up to max Speed Adamant if you want to outrun Mega Scizor and defensive Bulu, but that's really not necessary. Don't use Jolly cause it's too weak. Here's the best set in my opinion:

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch / Swords Dance

Blitz and Bone are easy picks.

EQ > Bonemarang. You aren't OHKOing any popular sash users with it and EQ's 0% chance to miss outweighs the chance that a Bulu gets up Grassy Terrain and also has a defensive TTar on their team. EQ is still OHKOing Heatran and TPunch is still 2HKOing Toxapex after rocks anyway.

The beauty of this set is how easily it scares your opponent's Koko into simply U-Turning until your Wak reveals it takes no recoil from Flare Blitz. If you can get Wak in against Koko without Wak taking a Tbolt, you can bet that they wont stay in and use Tbolt or try to switch with VS. Likely, you're going to catch a Lando-T or Fini trying to switch in but they are going to get at least half their HP taken off pretty easily. TPunch catches max/max Fini for a 2HKO after Rocks (252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 170-202 (49.4 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery), which means it has to decide between using Defog or using Surf, which deals 97.4% max. I'd trade Wak for Fini any day if I have Ash-Gren, Char-X, or any other number of offensive mons for that matter on my team. TPunch also helps you beat rain easily. Wak lures in Pelipper, outspeeds, and OHKOs it better than Stealth Rock + HP Electric Tran does, and Tran does just that incredibly well.

SD just rapes stall. Dug can't trap you and Quag will lose to a Shadow Bone Def drop. It also dies switching in to SR and Bone if it has like any prior damage on it whatsoever (252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery). Nothing on stall can really eat a +2 Flare Blitz/Bone/Quake and setting up is so easy when you scare away Skarm and Zapdos.

Don't use Stealth Rock. You want to be using Wak to attack as much as possible. Use another mon for that or the free turns you do get where you could be popping unsuspecting fat mons and helping another teammate clean later are not going to be able to be taken advantage of.

Take advantage of free turns from mons like Venusaur, Amoongus, Magnezone, Koko, Skarmory, Volcarona, Bulu, Ferro, Celesteela, Magearna etc. and destroy the opposition.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

^ why I really dislike marowak, but rock head has always been an easy read just how they switch in and their team having an electric immunity/solid rock setters already.

Maybe it,s from abusing shednija, but I'm in a camp marowak should be abusing the fact he can wall pokemon to set up his team with massive holes/rocks the things he needs rock head against often are things he shouldn't be switching into with rock head.

He is really solid vs stall but I think he really wants to beat defoggers like Zapdos.

 

[hecatomb]

I like marowak, but landorus t can almost do the same thing being immune to electric, also if your opponent has no electric types, lighting rod does nothing. A really good player that sees their opponent has marowak, they are not going to throw out electric moves also. Which also makes it somewhat predictable. Its biggest weakness is dealing with greninja and landorus t.

As for heatran, it doesnt counter heatran, and if heatran has air balloon, your ground attacks do nothing. Heatran still out speeds marowak also, and heatran eats fire moves. As for mega veno, its also not a real counter, mega veno has thick fat, and will leech seed you and protect, then most likely switch to something else if its HP gets low.

 

[Gary]

I like marowak, but landorus t can almost do the same thing being immune to electric, also if your opponent has no electric types, lighting rod does nothing. A really good player that sees their opponent has marowak, they are not going to throw out electric moves also. Which also makes it somewhat predictable. Its biggest weakness is dealing with greninja and landorus t.

As for heatran, it doesnt counter heatran, and if heatran has air balloon, your ground attacks do nothing. Heatran still out speeds marowak also, and heatran eats fire moves. As for mega veno, its also not a real counter, mega veno has thick fat, and will leech seed you and protect, then most likely switch to something else if its HP gets low.

Except Lando-T also doesn't have practically unwallable Ghost STAB and the equivalent of Huge Power. Lando is also 4x weak to HP Ice so it can't even reliably check Koko whereas Marowak can punish it. Who cares if a "good" player wont throw out Electric-type moves? That's the whole point of Marowak isn't it? It heavily pressures Electric-types from spamming Electric moves, and stuff like Koko are forced to U-turn until it's dead. Sounds like it's doing its job to me.

It doesn't counter Heatran but Heatran sure doesn't counter Marowak, so I don't even see that logic. Wak rarely ever has to click a Ground move. How does Heatran eating Fire-types have anything to do with the fact that Wak still beats it 1v1 regardless? If Air Balloon, EP can win, but like I said Shadow Bone does an absolute ton to it.

Your Mega Venu logic is flawed. Once again, you're clicking Shadow Bone vs it, not Fire Punch. Second, Leech Seed + Protect is not a thing on Venu, it will only ever run just Seeds by itself, and even that set is very uncommon. Giga/Sludge Bomb/HP Fire is what it normally runs and that set is just completely fucked by Marowak, especially if it carries Wisp, because then it's chipped even faster. Knock Off is the only thing Wak really needs to scout for but it's not super common either.

There is almost no reason to use Rock Head Wak on a non Trick Room team. Marowak's biggest niche comes from its immunity to Electric attacks, not just its offensive capabilities. Recoiless Blitz isn't really worth giving up the ability to completely wall one of the biggest threats in the tier right now, as Shadow Bone is easily just as spammable albeit less powerful, but way less resists.

 

[hecatomb]

Marowak-Alola still isnt a real counter to heatran, even if heatran doesnt have air balloon, Heatran still outspeeds it, and Marowak dies to earth power.

Heatran isnt really the problem though, the problem is Marowak-Alola dealing with greninja and landorus t

 

[pika pal]

The appeal of Alolawak offensively is that Ghost's very strong coverage combined with the overall frailty of most of OU's dark types and the rarity of Normal types means it's always a safe option to click. When Alolawak checks something, he usually checks it hard if not outright counters it (his nature means he's usually not soft-checking), and Shadow Bone is extremely hard to switch into because it can essentially only be resisted on a statside rather than by typing, and the only thing that pops into mind as bulky and resistant is Mega Gyarados.

132+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 186-219 (48.1 - 56.7%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
132+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 127-151 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
132+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 135-159 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 78.1% chance to 2HKO

These are pretty respectable numbers if Wak chooses not to go full offensive against a bulky offense mon, a defensive mon (full PHYS), and an offensive resist. Landorus-T has to be wary of Will-o-Wisp, which Wak carries specifically to give it a way to weaken and wear down its physically oriented checks. Alolawak isn't meant to deal with Greninja and Landorus-T, but it's not like he's a free switch-in for them outright the way your phrasing makes it sound. The combination of Will-o-wisp and Thick Club Shadow Bone already makes Alolawak very tricky to switch into for anything besides Stall teams, and they still can't trap him using Duggy.

Greninja and Lando-T are S-Rank mons, so it's not as if being troubled by them is an uncommon issue even among the high ranked mons. Despite not being what Alolawak is meant to deal with, he still has means to annoy them such that he's not dead weight to a match up. Saying Alolawak's significantly less viable because he has issues with Greninja and Landorus-T is like saying a boxer is less accomplished because they can't beat a guy on steroids: most people are going to have trouble with that.

The main niche behind this thing even then is defensive synergy. Alolawak is a hard stop to most Electric types (bar rare variants of things like KO Thundurus) because on top of Electric immunity, he's also resistant to Grass and (HP) Ice, the two most common coverage types Electrics use to try and get around mons resistant to their counters. The offenses are mainly a benefit because it allows Alolawak to discourage Electric types from using their STABs (something that mons like Tapu Koko would really want for Electric Terrain or for Voltturning) without being a bad momentum drain, as the STAB makes it hard to switch into as long as it hits neutrally thanks to Thick Club. If you reach to point of using it as a SD Flare Blitz Wallbreaker, I don't see why you'd pick that role outside of Trick Room when we have things like Zard-X or Z-Fly Mence that are better at sweeping, or Stallbreakers like Taunt Tapu Fini or Toxic Zygarde.

 

[Scarf Nihilego]

A- ---> B+: Agree

Can someone enlighten me as to why Rotom-W is A- worthy? I don't claim to be an expert on Rotom-W, but I used it on, like, half of my ORAS teams; I really want to say it's good, but I definitely don't find it quite as effective anymore. The lack of recovery really hurts it in a metagame full of hard hitters that 2-3HKO it with ease, so it's not nearly as mindless of a blanket check as it was before. Basically every offensive Pokemon in A or S can deal upwards of 40% to it with an STAB or ubiquitous coverage move, and with multiple powerhouses seen on every offensive team I can't say keeping Rotom-W healthy enough is easy at all. I've rarely found myself wanting Rotom-W over another defensive Water like Tapu Fini or another pivot like Landorus-T or Tapu Koko, which provide either more bulk, more utility, and/or simply more firepower. Its resistances, namely Flying, aren't nearly as relevant anymore; offensive Flying-types are generally on the decline (excluding Z-Fly Salamence, which 2HKOs with Outrage anyway). Other Pokemon it used to check, like Landorus or Mega Metagross, now have Z-Moves and Psychic Terrain to bust through it effortlessly. Rotom-W still has the same respectable power and annoying options of Will-O-Wisp (the burn nerf hurts) and Pain Split, but I think it looks a bit underwhelming compared to the rest of A-. It fits better with the other fallen ORAS titans in B+: still situationally useful, but not exactly equipped to handle the newest threats. I'd love for Rotom-W to stay in A-, but realistically I don't see why it should. Can anyone explain?

 

[caruru]

Hi - I'm kinda out of the loop - but on what merits Blissey gained a ranked? Can someone share some insights about it?

ty :]

 

[Colonel M]

Screw it I'll take Omfuga for arguments.

I'm not really 100% sure on the ROtom-W

Hi - I'm kinda out of the loop - but on what merits Blissey gained a ranked? Can someone share some insights about it?

ty :]

Calm Mind Blissey is the primary reason. It's a good fit on stall teams sometimes and can be utilized as a great Manaphy check while also being able to be an okay wincon if needed. Though defensively inferior to Chansey it at least has some bite to it after a couple Calm Minds behind its belt.