Imo, regular Gyarados is just way more splashable thanks to SSSS, and is surprisingly good in this meta. Gyarados doesn't need as much support from its teammates than its Mega form, meaning you don't have to really build around it, leaving your Mega slot free.
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Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter Gary
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Another relevant aspect of Mega Gyara and an advantage over its base form is that it's immune to prankster-boosted priority, which is actually pretty valuable for a DDer.
I'm a big fan of mega-gyarados, and have used it a lot in this meta, but I don't think it should move up a rank. The big thing that lets it down its its speed - even at +1 252+ Spe it is outsped by most revenge killers - scarf Lele, Landorus-T, Excadrill, Xurkitree; Pherosoma and Mega-Zam, and without a boost it is outsped by most offensive threats. For a setup sweeper, this is merely 'good', but not a top tier pokemon.
As well as the speed problem, it really suffers from wanting more than four moves - if you run dragon dance (which is necessary for the speed boosts to help it sweep), plus two STAB moves, then you have room for only one of Earthquake (which hits electric types that often switch into Gyarados, or toxapex [which can haze away your boosts anyway]), Ice Fang (which has a relatively low bp, but is still useful against dragons and flying pokemon), or sub (without which you are bait for any will-o-wisp, or t-wave, user).
Thats not to say that M-Gyarados is a poor pokemon - it has great attack, bulk, and a really good ability both pre- and post- mega-evo, but rather that it is not consistent or versatile to be a top tier threat, and it is countered by too many top tier threats to be truly A-rank, imo.
Naturally, if it weren't a mega-mon M-Gyara would be a higher rank, but the problem with coverage and speed mean that there are other better mega options in the tier, that can do similar jobs (Mega-Metagross, Mega-Zard, and Mega-Pinsir X for physical attackers; Mega-Zam for a late-game sweeper). So I think M-G is fine where it is in the viability ranking.
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Mega Gyara shouldn't rise
Its checks/ counters/ revenge killers from last gen like Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, bulky Chomp, Tangrowth, Keldeo, Rotom-W, Breloom are still very viable choices in the current meta. SM also give Mega Gyara new problems like Buzzwole, Scarf Lele, Scarf Bulu, Fini, Pheromosa (which don't even need Scarf if running max speed to outspeed +1 Gyara).
Some of these counterplays like Mega Venusaur, Tangrowth, Tapu Fini, Buzzwole are near impossible for Mega Gyara to break through regardless of what 2 moves it runs after the 2 staples Dragon Dance and Crunch.
There's also competition from other DD sweepers like Zard X, Salamence, Zygarde, and regular Gyara with SSSS.
Mega Gyara isn't bad but it's just a subpar choice in the current meta.
Its checks/ counters/ revenge killers from last gen like Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, bulky Chomp, Tangrowth, Keldeo, Rotom-W, Breloom are still very viable choices in the current meta. SM also give Mega Gyara new problems like Buzzwole, Scarf Lele, Scarf Bulu, Fini, Pheromosa (which don't even need Scarf if running max speed to outspeed +1 Gyara).
Some of these counterplays like Mega Venusaur, Tangrowth, Tapu Fini, Buzzwole are near impossible for Mega Gyara to break through regardless of what 2 moves it runs after the 2 staples Dragon Dance and Crunch.
There's also competition from other DD sweepers like Zard X, Salamence, Zygarde, and regular Gyara with SSSS.
Mega Gyara isn't bad but it's just a subpar choice in the current meta.
Rotom -> B+
The burn nerf is bigger than people give credit for.
In the past, Will-O-Wisp was often the safest move Rotom could go for as it dealt good chip and many teams lacked switch-ins. Volt Switch was not as safe as electric immunities exist on every team and against bulky mons it dealt barely any chip. So, for example, if you brought Rotom in on a Landorus-T and your opponent had a Mega-Venusaur waiting on the bench, 99% of the time the play to make was click Will-O-Wisp and expect to come out on top.
Sadly, that's not the case anymore.
Consider the fact that it's common for Pokemon burned by Rotom to survive for 8 turns or longer. Now, the burn nerf reduced damage by 6.25% per turn, so 8 turns of burn equates to 50% less damage per game than previous gens. That's huge. It's the difference between special attackers dying to chip vs them plowing through your team unopposed. And that's only 8 turns. 12+ is not uncommon.
A good example is SPL's Gingy vs NJNP. Turn 2 Gingy wisps while NJNP's Metagross is out, hitting Tapu Lele on the switch. Now Tapu Lele is on a 16-turn timer, which is close to irrelevant as Lele rarely lasts 16 turns anyway. Actually, in this case it is irrelevant as Lele shrugs off 9 turns of burn, surviving to win the game.
Rotom -> B+
There's one other point about Rotom that I want to bring up, but keep in mind it's really minor.
Terrains.
Because Rotom is levitating it doesn't get the benefits of terrains. This really suck as Rotom would love to have Grassy terrain healing, Electric terrain power, and Misty terrain protection, especially when your opponent is getting these buffs but not you.
The burn nerf is bigger than people give credit for.
In the past, Will-O-Wisp was often the safest move Rotom could go for as it dealt good chip and many teams lacked switch-ins. Volt Switch was not as safe as electric immunities exist on every team and against bulky mons it dealt barely any chip. So, for example, if you brought Rotom in on a Landorus-T and your opponent had a Mega-Venusaur waiting on the bench, 99% of the time the play to make was click Will-O-Wisp and expect to come out on top.
Sadly, that's not the case anymore.
Consider the fact that it's common for Pokemon burned by Rotom to survive for 8 turns or longer. Now, the burn nerf reduced damage by 6.25% per turn, so 8 turns of burn equates to 50% less damage per game than previous gens. That's huge. It's the difference between special attackers dying to chip vs them plowing through your team unopposed. And that's only 8 turns. 12+ is not uncommon.
A good example is SPL's Gingy vs NJNP. Turn 2 Gingy wisps while NJNP's Metagross is out, hitting Tapu Lele on the switch. Now Tapu Lele is on a 16-turn timer, which is close to irrelevant as Lele rarely lasts 16 turns anyway. Actually, in this case it is irrelevant as Lele shrugs off 9 turns of burn, surviving to win the game.
Rotom -> B+
There's one other point about Rotom that I want to bring up, but keep in mind it's really minor.
Terrains.
Because Rotom is levitating it doesn't get the benefits of terrains. This really suck as Rotom would love to have Grassy terrain healing, Electric terrain power, and Misty terrain protection, especially when your opponent is getting these buffs but not you.
I would give Mgyara the raise. It is just so incredibly easy to get a couple dds of because of how much it checks + intimidate. Its typing shift also creates evil mindgames because of how different flying and dark typings are. I do think A- is a little too much but B/B+ sounds good.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned deucer.
Is Zygarde 10% really a better banded cleaner than dragonite?
I understand how good thousand arrows is but base 100 attack that has to run jolly and so frail. dragonite might do a better job or just run DD Zygarde 50% and tank a hit and hit as hard as Z dog with a different item seeing how they basically run sleep talk from lack of coverage. While it can switch in on rocks more often than dragonite and is designed to be a clean sweep of the other team/revenge killer the pool he hits better is smaller and dragonite could do more with E-quake+real coverage filler
Nom to B-
I understand how good thousand arrows is but base 100 attack that has to run jolly and so frail. dragonite might do a better job or just run DD Zygarde 50% and tank a hit and hit as hard as Z dog with a different item seeing how they basically run sleep talk from lack of coverage. While it can switch in on rocks more often than dragonite and is designed to be a clean sweep of the other team/revenge killer the pool he hits better is smaller and dragonite could do more with E-quake+real coverage filler
Nom to B-
What you guys are failing to understand is that Mega Gyara is never really sweepin in this meta, there are way too many Pokemon that give it trouble. As the guy a few posts above me said, fat Grasses are very common at the moment, particularly Tangrowth which gives no fucks about it, as well as Mega Venu, Bulu, Ferrothorn and Amoonguss. Tapu Fini completely walls it, Pheromosa doesn't even need Scarf to outspeed it at +1, Scarf Keldeo is still a decently common set, and all others scarfers can outspeed it and kill it after some prior damage. It cant afford to run anything in the last slot other than Sub or Taunt, because without Sub it's so prone to being revenge killed, and without Taunt it loses one of its main niches at breaking stall (albeit unreliably). While its typing before mega evolving gives it more set up opportunities, it's still going to want to mega if all possible to get rid of SR weakness as well as give it added bulk, otherwise it's worn down tons easier. It doesn't even reliably set up on Mega Metagross anymore because most of them commonly carrying T-Punch these days.
And without a boost, it's basically revenged by so much of the meta. Versus bulkier builds it struggles to break through fat cores, and vs offense it struggles to find opportunities to set up, and even when it does it can still be revenged pretty easily. I'm not just seeing any reason to raise it back up, and considering regular Gyarados is loads better AND doesn't take up a mega slot, I'm finding even less and less reasons to use it in the current meta.
And without a boost, it's basically revenged by so much of the meta. Versus bulkier builds it struggles to break through fat cores, and vs offense it struggles to find opportunities to set up, and even when it does it can still be revenged pretty easily. I'm not just seeing any reason to raise it back up, and considering regular Gyarados is loads better AND doesn't take up a mega slot, I'm finding even less and less reasons to use it in the current meta.
Toxapex B+ -> A-
I feel that the defensive utility that Toxapex has to check and stop so many sweepers warrants it to be at least A-. While Toxapex is fairly passive and predictable it is not set up bait like many other passive pokemon due to haze. Just the sheer number of Pokemon that it has positive match-ups against allows makes me feel like its a cut above its current B+ brethren. Toxapex's biggest advantage is that it allows for a safe play, as it is not a unsafe Pokemon to switch into because of regenerator. Toxapex is at least as viable if not more viable than many Pokemon in the A- tier such as Jirachi, Manaphy, Tangrowth, Nihilego, Skarmory, and Rotom-W. While I realize usage statistics are not a very good argument, its usage percentage does go up the higher up the ladder you are at 14%. Toxapex can work as a "glue" pokemon for so many teams and because of how many teams it can work for and function well on I feel like it is A- material.
Tapu-Fini A -> A+
Tapu-Fini is one of the best support pokemon this generation and while it is not one of the most threatening pokemon by itself, the sheer number of support options that it has makes it A+ material, and fortunate for it, we are measuring how viable Tapu-Fini is, not how threatening it is. Tapu-Fini is one of the most popular pokemon and rightfully so, as it, like Toxapex, functions a the "glue" for so many teams being able to check so many pokemon. Also I feel like we can all agree that Tapu-Fini is pretty awesome and therefore should be in the S+ tier.
I feel that the defensive utility that Toxapex has to check and stop so many sweepers warrants it to be at least A-. While Toxapex is fairly passive and predictable it is not set up bait like many other passive pokemon due to haze. Just the sheer number of Pokemon that it has positive match-ups against allows makes me feel like its a cut above its current B+ brethren. Toxapex's biggest advantage is that it allows for a safe play, as it is not a unsafe Pokemon to switch into because of regenerator. Toxapex is at least as viable if not more viable than many Pokemon in the A- tier such as Jirachi, Manaphy, Tangrowth, Nihilego, Skarmory, and Rotom-W. While I realize usage statistics are not a very good argument, its usage percentage does go up the higher up the ladder you are at 14%. Toxapex can work as a "glue" pokemon for so many teams and because of how many teams it can work for and function well on I feel like it is A- material.
Tapu-Fini A -> A+
Tapu-Fini is one of the best support pokemon this generation and while it is not one of the most threatening pokemon by itself, the sheer number of support options that it has makes it A+ material, and fortunate for it, we are measuring how viable Tapu-Fini is, not how threatening it is. Tapu-Fini is one of the most popular pokemon and rightfully so, as it, like Toxapex, functions a the "glue" for so many teams being able to check so many pokemon.
Tne problem I have with raising Toxapex any amount is that it can it only be viably run on one archtype, which is stall. It can't fit on Hyper Offence for obvious reasons. Bulky Offense would much rather run bulky pivots that don't drain momentum with a lack of offensive presence. Even Balance wouldn't like to run it because of how extremely passive it really is; whereas other things that Balance runs like Tang or Marowak give both the necessary resists / status or heavy offensive pressure. Not to mention the amount of top tier mons that beat it. Lando / Extrasen Gren / Lele / Metagross / Koko. All of these are meta defining and top tier pokemon.
Toxapex should stay B+
Tapu Fini suffers from this as well. It is the most reliable hazard removal we have in OU, and as such is constantly pressured by most well built teams. It's not as splashable as people make it out to be as it can be a huge momentum drain when you come in and defog giving the opponent a free turn. Wheras with other hazard removal mons Latios / Excadrill / Phero you have to fear either taking a hit with a strong stab or letting them gets a free spin/defog.
Fini has been constantly overated and I feel it being the only decent defogger in the tier have people thinking it's better than it is. An example of this is the abysmal SPL win rate despite being one of the most used mons.
Fini should stay A
Toxapex should stay B+
Tapu Fini suffers from this as well. It is the most reliable hazard removal we have in OU, and as such is constantly pressured by most well built teams. It's not as splashable as people make it out to be as it can be a huge momentum drain when you come in and defog giving the opponent a free turn. Wheras with other hazard removal mons Latios / Excadrill / Phero you have to fear either taking a hit with a strong stab or letting them gets a free spin/defog.
Fini has been constantly overated and I feel it being the only decent defogger in the tier have people thinking it's better than it is. An example of this is the abysmal SPL win rate despite being one of the most used mons.
Fini should stay A
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I'd like to also make a case for toxapex moving from B+ to A-.
First of all I want to clear the misconception that "it can only be run on stall". Toxapex has a place on Stall, Semi-Stall and a lot of balanced Teams. While it might be more passive than other bulky water types that fit on balance, it checks a huge variety of threats and has a bunch of assets that make it viable on balanced teams. The following are in no particular order:
-It can switch into a variety of premiere u-turn user without getting worn down by hazards examples for this include but are not limited to Pheromosa, Mega-Sczizor;
-It has access to hazards, although it might not be the most flexible one, toxic spikes is able to hinder specific balance cores with two layers as well as greatly annoy any offense that lacks a poison type with one layer.
-It can absorb toxic spikes which are notorious for breaking balance.
-It being a water type with stab-scald makes it a lot harder to switch into than other passive mons that wouldnt fit on balance such as Cresselia or P2.
Toxapex is also the mainly used Regenerate user on stall (with Amoonguss being nr. 2 and Tang still getting some usage on stall lacking skarmory an example of this would be sableye jirachi tentacruel stall and I just realized this might be a bit too off-topic).
When building an offensive team Toxapex is one of the defensive threats any team has to consider heavily due to its access to haze, regenerator, and immense defenses paired with reliable recovery.
First of all I want to clear the misconception that "it can only be run on stall". Toxapex has a place on Stall, Semi-Stall and a lot of balanced Teams. While it might be more passive than other bulky water types that fit on balance, it checks a huge variety of threats and has a bunch of assets that make it viable on balanced teams. The following are in no particular order:
-It can switch into a variety of premiere u-turn user without getting worn down by hazards examples for this include but are not limited to Pheromosa, Mega-Sczizor;
-It has access to hazards, although it might not be the most flexible one, toxic spikes is able to hinder specific balance cores with two layers as well as greatly annoy any offense that lacks a poison type with one layer.
-It can absorb toxic spikes which are notorious for breaking balance.
-It being a water type with stab-scald makes it a lot harder to switch into than other passive mons that wouldnt fit on balance such as Cresselia or P2.
Toxapex is also the mainly used Regenerate user on stall (with Amoonguss being nr. 2 and Tang still getting some usage on stall lacking skarmory an example of this would be sableye jirachi tentacruel stall and I just realized this might be a bit too off-topic).
When building an offensive team Toxapex is one of the defensive threats any team has to consider heavily due to its access to haze, regenerator, and immense defenses paired with reliable recovery.
I think Toxapex is fine where it is. Of the four bullet points listed, only the first one is all that relevant IMO. It can switch into anyone's U-Turn in the tier. BUT, what will it do beyond that? The U-turner will go into something that beats pex, like lando or lele, forcing you out again. This didn't gain the Toxapex user any momentum, the U-turner still got to pick what they send out as a reaction to Toxapex being in.
This mon literally has to rely on scald burns to do much of anything. I mean Heatran 1v1s with Earth power easily. Here's a list of the top tier mons that beat toxapex:
S
Landorus-T
Metagross (Mega)
A+
Garchomp
Tapu Koko
Tapu Lele
A Rank
Charizard (Mega-X)
Ferrothorn
Heatran
Magearna
Zygarde
A - Rank
Alakazam (Mega)
Dugtrio [
Hoopa-U
Jirachi
Magnezone
Manaphy
It's just too passive a mon, relying on toxic spikes staying down and scald burns to do anything at all, and has no place among true metagame threats in A-.
Toxapex should stay B+
I'd also agree that Fini is fine where it is. This mon makes the most obvious plays and is very easy to take advantage of. Tbh practically every time I see a Fini come out, I find a way to grab the momentum back as it always does
1. switch in after hazards up
2. defog
3. nature's madness for that ill chip
4. whoops you let me setup to +1/+1 and now (insert sweeper here) is gonna wreck you with a z-move and proceed to sweep.
That's a little contrived sure, but not that uncommon a scenario at all.
Fini should stay A
RANKINGS UPDATE
Rises
A- ---> A
B+ ---> A-
B ---> B+
C+ ---> B-
C+ ---> B-
C- ---> C+
Drops
A- ---> B+
A- ---> B+
B- ---> C+
Rises
Drops
- Dugtrio rising shouldn't really be too much of a surprise. It's the face of stall, a great support Pokemon that fits on pretty much any sort team that might want something specific removed for its teammates, such as Heatran for Volcarona so it can run HP Ice. Its supporting abilities far outweigh most of the Pokemon found in A-.
- Gengar has been seeing more traction lately as a revenge killer with Scarf, as it can threaten offensive teams with its practically unwallable Ghost STAB and provide great Speed control as well as a decent Phero check. Specs is still uncommon, but also a really cool set right now that breaks balance apart.
- Gyarados is a lot like Mence but finds more opportunities to set up because of its typing. It's Speed tier leaves it revenged by most Scarfers and less effective versus offensive, but it finds more opportunities to set up than Mence, especially versus bulkier teams, potentially being able to grab and extra boost. It also doesn't require as much support as Mence to start breaking through teams, considering its Water STAB lets it hit Skarm, Celesteela, and other Steels without needing them trapped by Zone.
- Bronzong and Gastrodon are both cool defensive Pokemon that wall a lot of Pokemon in the current metagame, as explained in the last VR update, but they are more useful overall than the Pokemon found in C+, which is why they rose. Bronzong compresses a lot of roles too, which makes it a cool fit for balance.
- Primarina checks similar Pokemon that Fini does, but is much more offensively inclined. It has gotten a little bit of usage in SPL, and with Specs it's very strong, being able to 2HKO AV Growth with Moonblast and nearly OHKO Metagross with Hydro Pump. It's niche, but a great replacement for Fini on more offensive oriented teams.
- Hoopa-U has been seeing a lot less usage lately because its role as a breaker is being overshadowed by Tapu Lele, who also breaks stall better and a more useful ability/typing. Special Scarf is still decent on offensive builds that's very threatening vs offense, and Specs is still annoying for balance to switch into because of its raw power.
- Tyranitar sees very little usage, and doesn't fit onto teams nearly as much as most of the Pokemon in A-, or is as useful.
- Starmie is bad
Mega Charizard X should drop to A-
I've been trying out this mon recently and it's so underwhelming. You can never get two Dragon Dances off unless your opponent is b a d, and even if you manage to get one, there's so many things that can stop it. You lose to defensive Landorus-T, Tapu Fini, and Scarfers (which are pretty much required on every offensive team) such as Nihilego, Garchomp and sometimes Pheromosa, all of which are extremely common right now. In fact, teams often carry multiple checks and counters to Mega Charizard X.
The defensive Will-O-Wisp set might seem better but it's even more Fini bait than the Dragon Dance one, and stuff like Lele can freely switch in on even a relatively weak Fire Punch and proceed to beat stuff. It only really works on stall, and even then it uses the mega slot.
Basically, it seems like Mega Charizard X just needs too much team support to function in this meta, because it requires you to use hazard removal, eats up your mega slot and just needs too many things sufficiently weakened before it can sweep. I'd rather just use something like Volcarona, which can perform just as well, if not better, and have an opportunity to use a different mega.
I've been trying out this mon recently and it's so underwhelming. You can never get two Dragon Dances off unless your opponent is b a d, and even if you manage to get one, there's so many things that can stop it. You lose to defensive Landorus-T, Tapu Fini, and Scarfers (which are pretty much required on every offensive team) such as Nihilego, Garchomp and sometimes Pheromosa, all of which are extremely common right now. In fact, teams often carry multiple checks and counters to Mega Charizard X.
The defensive Will-O-Wisp set might seem better but it's even more Fini bait than the Dragon Dance one, and stuff like Lele can freely switch in on even a relatively weak Fire Punch and proceed to beat stuff. It only really works on stall, and even then it uses the mega slot.
Basically, it seems like Mega Charizard X just needs too much team support to function in this meta, because it requires you to use hazard removal, eats up your mega slot and just needs too many things sufficiently weakened before it can sweep. I'd rather just use something like Volcarona, which can perform just as well, if not better, and have an opportunity to use a different mega.
First post in a VR thread, so hi everyone, and please correct me if this doesn't contribute enough.
Considering Bronzong:
It seems like a pretty nice check to a lot of the top tier threats, but is there any reason to use it over Celesteela?
I feel like they kinda check the same things, so aside from some minor differences in resistances/weaknesses, I don't immediately see myself using it over the UB.
A ranking somewhere in the B's might still be fine though, since it's still a great check regardless of what Celesteela does.
Considering Bronzong:
It seems like a pretty nice check to a lot of the top tier threats, but is there any reason to use it over Celesteela?
I feel like they kinda check the same things, so aside from some minor differences in resistances/weaknesses, I don't immediately see myself using it over the UB.
A ranking somewhere in the B's might still be fine though, since it's still a great check regardless of what Celesteela does.
Bronzong is pretty nice as it compresses the role checking Mega Meta/Mence/Rockium Lando/Lele and so much more with the moveset of Gyro Ball/HP Ice/Earthquake/Stealth Rock. Access to SR + role compression is nice for teams, and the defensive typing is fantastic. It is troubled by the lack of recovery and somewhat passiveness but it has a leg up on Celesteela by being able to beat Rockium variants, not lose to any form of Mega Metagross (Thunderpunch makes you sad), and so on. I think it could be a bit higher as the metagame trends do favor it at the moment. Not saying one is better than the other, but there are pros to using good ole zong.
Dugtrio is in a weird case where unlike a lot of suspects, it has a lot of inherent flaws and is only useful for certain types of teams, but because it's a trapper, it is essentially guaranteed to fulfill its role with no counter play available to the opponent, making it arguably unhealthy for the metagame in spite of its downsides.
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I have to agree, I think the meta is more kind to Mega-Y as of right now and should probably switch ranks. The thing about Mega-Y is that it can run moves to beat it's counters like EQ for Heatran or Flareblitz to 2HKO Chansey with a little Attack investment. Fire Blast is the move he spams the most and Solarbeam I guess so the last 2 moves are always up for grabs. I've seen people run Dragon Dance/Flame Charge to clean up late game as well. I just think Zard-Y is a lot more effective than X right now.
Charizard-X is in an awkward position rn because of Lando and Fini being so popular and ScarfChomp being fairly common, but I'd say it actually benefits from the former. Tapu Fini has proven over the last couple of weeks that it isn't as reliable as people thought and how quickly it gets worn dowm during a match. Landorus is even easier to wear down because of the lack of lefties and because people switch it into any attack. This means that with the right support both of these aren't checks for Zard. Unlike M-Gyara or other offensive waters its most common checks don't have any reliable recovery which means that all you need is play aggresively early game and you'll find yourself in a favourable position late-game. I've been using Zard-X in the sus ladder and it's been working really well, going 10-0 at first and now I' 6-0 on my second attempt and honestly I think that the only thing stopping a sweep are Scarfers which also stop every other sweeper in the tier and that doesn't make them deserve a drop. Keep it A
Keldeo has a number of unique things that it brings to the tier. It's one of the better scarfers available due to the relative high speed tier (as in a better speed tier than Garchomp and Nihilego) and with scarf it's able to revenge or dent a serious number of pokemon. It can also viably still run specs although I wouldnt recommend it when Primarina exists. It also has a set that is recently seeing some more usage which is the Calm Mind + Sub / Calm Mind + Z-Hyper Beam. Hyper Beam allows you to beat your common counters like Venusaur / Toxapex / Fini / Amoongus etc. Whereas the sub set destroys a lot of bulkier teams that rely on Lando / Jirachi / Heatran / Ferro to gain momentum and set up rocks AND the amount of pressure you put on stall if you have multiple stall breakers which forces them to manage between keeping thier Unaware mon + Haze mon healthy and with enough PP to handle your next set-up mon. It also gives an offensive water resist that is seriously lacking in the OU tier.
I fully expect Keldeo to be OU again soon; provided that players stop sleeping on it.
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Keldeo's UU only because it didn't get enough usage to make the cut.
I'm really suprised that dragalge is that low, in C. This mon is actually good, like usable, has it's place in meta.
Let's have quick look at things that dragalge checks: tapu koko, tapu fini, pheromosa, chocke-locked tapu lele, tapu bulu, zardY, volcarona, any defensive grass type include venusaur, tangrowth, amoongus and even ferrothorn.
Of course common steel types are problem for this mon, but it all kinds of tools to hit them. You have focus blast for ferrothorn and heatran, thunderbolt for skarm and celesteela and if that is not enough you can still run hp fire for scizor.
But even then, dragalge is great example of mon that "resist doesn't mean live"
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 176-208 (58.4 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
TL DR: With rise of bulky ground types, Volcarona and omnipresent tapus Dragalge should go up in ranks to at least C+
Let's have quick look at things that dragalge checks: tapu koko, tapu fini, pheromosa, chocke-locked tapu lele, tapu bulu, zardY, volcarona, any defensive grass type include venusaur, tangrowth, amoongus and even ferrothorn.
Of course common steel types are problem for this mon, but it all kinds of tools to hit them. You have focus blast for ferrothorn and heatran, thunderbolt for skarm and celesteela and if that is not enough you can still run hp fire for scizor.
But even then, dragalge is great example of mon that "resist doesn't mean live"
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 176-208 (58.4 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
TL DR: With rise of bulky ground types, Volcarona and omnipresent tapus Dragalge should go up in ranks to at least C+
While Dragalge hits really hard, it still doesn't do enough damage to common mons like Metagross (which you calced), because Metagross switches in then kills something. You're also suggesting Specs, leaving you vulnerable once locked into a move. With a steel or two on every team, poison stab isn't good to be locked into at all. Slow speed means you'll only get one hit off before you have to switch or die, killing momentum. Also, you have to get Dragalge in safely, which is hard with the pretty bad defensive typing. I guess you could use it, but I can't think of good reasons to run it, other than on Heatah Fajita-type teams.
- Status