SM UU Viability Ranking Thread

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I'm fine with Haxorus staying where it is, the abundance of fairy types make it very tough for a mono-type dragon to shine.

But I agree mega sharpedo should definitely can moved to S rank or even banned to BL. It is such a ridiculously huge threat lategame that teams need to build specifically around it to avoid getting swept. We should seriously consider a suspect test for mega-sharpedo.
 
yeah fairies are common, but if haxorus manages to nets a sd boost then pretty much every fairy drops to a poison jab with a little prior damage (bold clef needs sr in order to be ohkod from +2 hax). obviously haxorus does not invalidate fairies as a whole but i think netting a boost vs fat teams is not all that difficult and its breaking capabilities set it apart from the other dragons by a pretty fair margin since none of them can take on fat teams the way haxorus can - latias and hydra cant really break through both clefable and bliss (those are found on the most common stall team atm but honestly i think they pretty much have to be on stall lol). i guess it does compete with kyurem in its ability to break said fat teams, but it still has a noticeable niche that warrants a raise.
 
Tbh thinking of stall, SD jab, eq, and dragon claw/outrage haxorus literally 6-0's (almost) all stall teams? i feel like the only thing that could eat a hit would be unaware clef if mold breaker cancels out the unaware? otherwise all you have to do is pressure clef and u win ez

its also not doodoo vs offense as its physical bulk can allow it to eat a lot of neutral hits and do heavy damage back

thats a good enough niche imo for like B-/B, at least i can see haxorus putting in about as much work as like a reuniclus or even gastro would on average.
Also its competition in gyarados and mence leaving as well as disappearance of gatr(????) helps
 

B- ► B/B+
It's such a shame this mon doesn't get much attention, because it's a pretty good one. I've talked a little about it with eht and we both agree on the fact that we could definitely see this guy higher than in B-. It gets a great offensive pressure thanks to its coverage moves (Ice Beam / Earth Power most of the time, which is already enough to threaten a lot of... well, threats) while it can still tank pretty well. Its best set is the SubRoost I'd say, even if I haven't really run anything else, this set is an absolute nightmare for stall and wins a lot of pp stalls if needed due to Pressure. B+ is maybe a little too high for this cutie though, I'd rather see it in B rank knowing that it's weak to most of the S ranked ngl.
 
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sparrow

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I'm throwing in a few Pokemon based upon each of their versatility in the current metagame, I don't believe the VR adequately reflects the effectiveness of each of my nominated changes.

A- --> A / A+
  • Amazing Speed and Special Attack
  • Able to run many different sets (Sub CM, CM + Z-Move, Specs, Scarf)
  • Sub CM set able to sweep most teams once its limited checks and counters are weakened
  • CM + Z-move of choice set is a great lure (edit: z-Hyper Beam effectively allows Raikou to forego Hidden Power coverage for raw power)
  • Specs is incredibly difficult to switch into - scary switching in bulky Ground types for this reason
  • Look at all of the teams in the Sample Team thread, Raikou threatens all of them
+1 252 SpA Raikou Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 323-380 (74.9 - 88.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
+1 252 SpA Raikou Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Hippowdon: 315-371 (75.1 - 88.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
+1 252 SpA Raikou Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 240 HP / 12 SpD Swampert: 323-380 (80.5 - 94.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
+1 252 SpA Raikou Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 272-321 (77.2 - 91.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
A- --> A / A+
  • Choice Specs + U-turn grant it almost no switch-ins
  • Choice Scarf threatens offence, and can RK threats such as: m-Aerodactyl, Alakazam, Latias, Mew, Starmie, Celebi, Gengar, Raikou, etc.
  • Taunt + Z-Flash Cannon functions as an effective stall breaker / wall breaker for the rest of its team
  • Above average defensive utility for an offensive Pokemon, make it a worthwhile choice over other Pokemon (ie. immunity to Ground, resistances to Fire, Water, Electric, Grass, Dark etc.)
B --> B+ / A-
  • Scarf, Band, Mixed, Lead, Bulky
  • Incredibly versatile Pokemon, able to choose its counters
  • Speed Tier makes it incredibly fast with Choice Scarf, U-Turn, CC + Flare Blitz give it almost perfect coverage
  • Banded + Iron Fist Mach Punch, able to effectively RK M-Sharpedo, not much enjoys switching into Band CC or Flare Blitz
  • Mixed is able to pick its counters, Gunk Shot lures Pokemon such as Clefable & Prima, Hidden Power Ice for Gliscor, has a good chance of scoring a KO if it gets in safely
  • Bulky and lead sets have found some minor success in the metagame, with fast Burns and Taunt
B --> B+
  • Able to check threats such as CM Slowbro, CM Clefable, CM Latias, etc.
  • Decent switch in to Choice Bullet Punch and Scizor in general
  • Decent check to Primarina, Clefable, Klefki and Togekiss
  • Choice between Stealth Rocks, Defog, or both make it a flexible pick with useful resistances
 
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A little nom of my own...

KLEFKI

A ---> A+

Klefki's utility at the moment is underestimated. As a majority of the meta (aside from the "Holy Trinity" of S Rank, speaking of them it checks Clefable completely with the exception of Flamethrower which is very valuable) are fast threats like Zam or Mega Aero, Thunder Wave eats them alive and it gets access to a very coveted entry hazard in Spikes which is great support for wallbreakers or sweepers like SD Scizor or Mega Shark. While it only runs one main set in UU, this set is very effective in the UU metagame because it straight up offers so much utility (T Wave breaks down fast threats, Toxic kills important walls such as Celebi and can be used to whittle down even offensive mons, Spikes is self explanatory) Oh, and Ground types? Magnet Rise screws them over, most notably Krook and Hippo, and due to lack of good Fire types in the tier right now (Volcanion, Infernape, and MAYBE Entei if you want to stretch it) make Klefki a very effective utility mon overall. (Oh, and the Prankster nerf doesn't effect it too much overall because out of the most viable Dark types, Hydra Mega Shark and Mega Absol all get smacked by Play Rough, and it does decent damage to Krook.) I say this thing warrants a rise, but feel free to disagree.
 

A Cake Wearing A Hat

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I'm going to also hop on the nomination train with the loudbird himself:

B- --> B

Swellow got an amazing buff this gen of +25 SpA. This is, of course, why it's currently in the VR rankings at all. However, I feel that the roles that it fills and excels at are more than enough to put it on the same level as, say, Gastrodon and Decidueye.

Swellow is a very good revenge killer and also a decent cleaner in the current meta. Its speed allows it to outspeed all unscarfed mons in the tier bar Maero, Talonflame, and the occasional Crobat. The amazing power of specs boomburst /w/ scrappy is also very notable, along with its tendency to be hard to wall effectively unless you're using Sp.Def Empoleon, Blissey, or AV goodra (lol). Swellow's access to U-turn and high speed make it a good fit for offensive VoltTurn teams, since slow U-turns from mons like Scizor or Tsareena will provide ample free switches for the noisy avian.

Swellow achieves many notable OHKOs and 2HKOs for threats in the current meta, as well:
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 300-354 (114.9 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 271-319 (103.8 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Alakazam: 247-292 (98.4 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cobalion: 155-183 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 189-223 (62.7 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Hippowdon: 250-295 (59.6 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 192+ SpD Clefable: 195-229 (49.4 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 158-186 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Swellow does still have the problems of being countered by maero and being priority weak, which is why I'm not suggesting it rise any higher than B.
 

Kink

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I'm going to also hop on the nomination train with the loudbird himself:

B- --> B

Swellow got an amazing buff this gen of +25 SpA. This is, of course, why it's currently in the VR rankings at all. However, I feel that the roles that it fills and excels at are more than enough to put it on the same level as, say, Gastrodon and Decidueye.

Swellow is a very good revenge killer and also a decent cleaner in the current meta. Its speed allows it to outspeed all unscarfed mons in the tier bar Maero, Talonflame, and the occasional Crobat. The amazing power of specs boomburst /w/ scrappy is also very notable, along with its tendency to be hard to wall effectively unless you're using Sp.Def Empoleon, Blissey, or AV goodra (lol). Swellow's access to U-turn and high speed make it a good fit for offensive VoltTurn teams, since slow U-turns from mons like Scizor or Tsareena will provide ample free switches for the noisy avian.

Swellow achieves many notable OHKOs and 2HKOs for threats in the current meta, as well:
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 300-354 (114.9 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 271-319 (103.8 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Alakazam: 247-292 (98.4 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cobalion: 155-183 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 189-223 (62.7 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Hippowdon: 250-295 (59.6 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 192+ SpD Clefable: 195-229 (49.4 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 158-186 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Swellow does still have the problems of being countered by maero and being priority weak, which is why I'm not suggesting it rise any higher than B.
I can't agree with this nom, while Swellow's niche has definitely increased its viability as compared to its C brethren, it's certainly not on par with the other B ranks, as it has far too many flaws to be consistent. To suggest that Swellow is on the same level as mons like Nidoking and Decidueye is not something I can agree with. Almost every mon on the B list has a consistent niche that can be used to exploit many teams; howwever, I'm of that opinion that those that are in B- find themselves on the cusp of that dependability. I definitely think Swellow fits that description perfectly.
 
I'd like nominate Conkeldurr for B or maybe even B+ as I think it outclasses a large portion of it's B- with it's combination of power, bulk, and priority. It's 140 Base attack is the highest in the tier of any non-mega, making it a threat every time it's on the field. Conk has 3 useful abilities that give it different niches. Guts makes it a great status absorber and general scald switchin, and also differentiates it from other physical attackers in that it can be more painful to status it. Iron Fist powers up it's punching moves, turning Hammer Arm into one of the most powerful moves in the tier with a choice band attached. Finally, Sheer force is useful in letting Conkeldurr run life orb and powering up the elemental punches while incurring no life orb damage (it's fighting stabs incur life orb damage). It's variability is shown in that it can successfully run sets like Assault Vest, Bulk up, Choice Band, Life Orb, or even the now improved Flame Orb which I really recommend. It has the ability to break past answers with it's huge coverage options like Knock off for ghosts and psychics like Doublade and Slowbro, ice punch for flyers like Gliscor and Crobat and Latias, and poison jab for fairies like Clefable and Primarina. Add in Drain punch which hits hard and heals Conk + valuable priority in mach punch, and Conk is a threat. Conk also has above average bulk, living things like Adamant Mega Aero Aerial Ace and Life Orb Draco Meteor and Psyshock from Latias if equipped with an Assault Vest.

Looking at the Viability rankings, it can beat or pressure all three S mons in Bisharp, Clefable, and Scizor. It can take on Mega Aero 1v1, same with Cobalion and Keldeo and at worst weaken them for a teammate to clean up. It can OHKO Mega Sharpedo if Conk is statused or equipped with a choice band or Life Orb (68.8% chance). Looking at fatter pokemon, with a flame orb attached, it can really pressure stall as Amoongus can't spore and Conk can blow it back. It beats Alomomola 1v1 if conk is burned rather than toxiced, it can pressure Clefable/togekiss on the switch with Poison jab, it can destroy Gliscor with Ice punch, and it can take advantage of Blissey every time it comes in. I could go on and on, it's a great mon and is pretty much never useless. When comparing it to Bewear who is also in B- at the moment, Conk has the ability to hit harder plus it has access to priority which is stupidly valuable. To me it deserves to rise!
 
With all the nominations for pokemon rising up the tier, I thought I'd nominate one to drop a bit:


Keldeo A+ -> A

I really believe Keldeo does not hold up to the standard of the other mons in the A+ tier. Most teams naturally pack a check to its STAB combination (most bulky psychics or bulky waters will do) and its coverage moves are too mediocre to pose a serious threat. Some calcs for scarf Keldeo, which is the most popular variant by UU usage:

252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Clefable: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 107-126 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 80.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 96-114 (31.8 - 37.8%) -- 91.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 153-180 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Mew: 132-156 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 2.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 89-105 (24.4 - 28.8%) -- 99.3% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 102-120 (39 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Celebi: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- 76.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 12 SpD Swampert: 193-228 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 118-141 (39.2 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 130-154 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise-Mega: 88-105 (24.3 - 29%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 108-127 (27.4 - 32.2%) -- 61.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 76-90 (20.8 - 24.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 308-366 (83 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 127-151 (29.8 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 205-243 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 91-108 (22.5 - 26.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 40 HP / 216 SpD Alomomola: 117-138 (24.3 - 28.6%) -- 99.3% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 63-74 (16.8 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 144-169 (32.6 - 38.3%) -- 1.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 29-34 (7.2 - 8.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever (yes showdown calcs actually say this)
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma: 198-234 (49.7 - 58.7%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 157-186 (46.4 - 55%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Dhelmise: 88-104 (25.6 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 204 HP / 248+ Def Vaporeon: 136-162 (30 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery


Bolded above are mons that Keldeo has a chance to 2HKO. This is assuming that the Keldeo player is predicting the switch and clicking the most super effective attack every time. It's evident that there are just a huge number of mons in the tier that put a hard stop to Keldeo, including literally every water type except for Keldeo itself, those with a secondary typing weak to Keldeo's STABS (bolded above) or strictly offensive waters like Sharpedo, Crawdaunt, and Feraligatr.

Again, this is not to say that Keldeo is bad, considering specs can still wallbreak a considerable portion of the meta and scarf can clean effectively if teams have been weakened beforehand. Sub+CM Keldeo is also still a thing, although it requires considerably more support than choiced variants and is pretty rare at present. But when I compare Keldeo to its comrades in the A+ tier, it doesn't really stand out as an offensive threat that requires specific prep like M-Aero or M-Sharpedo and it doesn't present enough utility to compete with Cobalion, Latias, or Mew.

I think people are remembering Keldeo's dominance early on in ORAS and assuming it is still the same caliber of threat, except in UU. I think it's clear that Gen 7 hasn't been kind to Keldeo (scald nerf and lack of coverage to take advantage of Z-moves), and you could also argue that UU is a harder tier for Keldeo to stand out in due to the preponderance of bulky waters and notable absence of premier wallbreakers to deal with Keldeo's checks. A well-played Keldeo is still a huge threat, and in the right situations it can be an extremely effective mon, but given how other options in the A+ tier are faring I don't think Keldeo deserves to be amongst them.

And now for my own nomination to rise:


Conkeldurr B- -> B

EDIT: I started writing this post before I saw YouthBerry's post above. Suffice it to say I agree with them! Sorry for the redundant posts #sniped

Conkeldurr is quite strong in the current meta. Mach Punch is a hard stop to M-Sharpedo (the only Conk variant that doesn't OHKO after rocks is Guts with no boost) and Conk can 1-v-1 both M-Aero and M-Absol even if they are carrying super effective coverage (Aerial Ace or Play Rough). Leftovers, Assault Vest, Choice Band, and Flame Orb are all viable on Conk, and depending on what your team needs he can effectively run a Z-crystal as well. I am using him on a trick room team right now and Knock Off + Acid Downpour (Z-boosted Poison Jab) obliterates every fairy in the tier except Togekiss (something like ~60% chance to OHKO, mach punch finishes it off) and Kelfki (Drain Punch works just fine).

Conk definitely outshines the fellow fighting types in the B- tier too (Bewear and Toxicroak). Both have their niches but Conkeldurr presents more options and is generally more effective against a larger percentage of teams. In other words, Conk is more viable. The fighting types in the B tier are Infernape and Mienshao, which I think are equivalently viable to Conk at present.

Would love to hear people's thoughts on both nominations.
 
With all the nominations for pokemon rising up the tier, I thought I'd nominate one to drop a bit:


Keldeo A+ -> A

I really believe Keldeo does not hold up to the standard of the other mons in the A+ tier. Most teams naturally pack a check to its STAB combination (most bulky psychics or bulky waters will do) and its coverage moves are too mediocre to pose a serious threat. Some calcs for scarf Keldeo, which is the most popular variant by UU usage:

252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Clefable: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 107-126 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 80.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 96-114 (31.8 - 37.8%) -- 91.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 153-180 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Mew: 132-156 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 2.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 89-105 (24.4 - 28.8%) -- 99.3% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 102-120 (39 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Celebi: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- 76.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 12 SpD Swampert: 193-228 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 118-141 (39.2 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 130-154 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise-Mega: 88-105 (24.3 - 29%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 108-127 (27.4 - 32.2%) -- 61.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 76-90 (20.8 - 24.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 308-366 (83 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 127-151 (29.8 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 205-243 (48.3 - 57.3%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 91-108 (22.5 - 26.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 40 HP / 216 SpD Alomomola: 117-138 (24.3 - 28.6%) -- 99.3% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 63-74 (16.8 - 19.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 144-169 (32.6 - 38.3%) -- 1.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 29-34 (7.2 - 8.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever (yes showdown calcs actually say this)
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma: 198-234 (49.7 - 58.7%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 157-186 (46.4 - 55%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Dhelmise: 88-104 (25.6 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 204 HP / 248+ Def Vaporeon: 136-162 (30 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery


Bolded above are mons that Keldeo has a chance to 2HKO. This is assuming that the Keldeo player is predicting the switch and clicking the most super effective attack every time. It's evident that there are just a huge number of mons in the tier that put a hard stop to Keldeo, including literally every water type except for Keldeo itself, those with a secondary typing weak to Keldeo's STABS (bolded above) or strictly offensive waters like Sharpedo, Crawdaunt, and Feraligatr.

Again, this is not to say that Keldeo is bad, considering specs can still wallbreak a considerable portion of the meta and scarf can clean effectively if teams have been weakened beforehand. Sub+CM Keldeo is also still a thing, although it requires considerably more support than choiced variants and is pretty rare at present. But when I compare Keldeo to its comrades in the A+ tier, it doesn't really stand out as an offensive threat that requires specific prep like M-Aero or M-Sharpedo and it doesn't present enough utility to compete with Cobalion, Latias, or Mew.

I think people are remembering Keldeo's dominance early on in ORAS and assuming it is still the same caliber of threat, except in UU. I think it's clear that Gen 7 hasn't been kind to Keldeo (scald nerf and lack of coverage to take advantage of Z-moves), and you could also argue that UU is a harder tier for Keldeo to stand out in due to the preponderance of bulky waters and notable absence of premier wallbreakers to deal with Keldeo's checks. A well-played Keldeo is still a huge threat, and in the right situations it can be an extremely effective mon, but given how other options in the A+ tier are faring I don't think Keldeo deserves to be amongst them.
First of all, I should just ignore your post for mentioning Dhelmise (blacklisted 'mon), because it's literally the worst 'mon in the tier and only bad people (yes, Shiba) use it, secondly, most your calcs are literally irrelevant, because you listed a LOT of unviable/below average Pokémon (Vaporeon, Jellicent, Necrozma, Dhelmise). I think you forgot Scarf Keldeo is not a wallbreaker, but an 'offense breaker'. Choice Specs Keldeo 2HKOes ALL the Pokemon you listed (With the right coverage and after Stealth Rock, such as Focus Blast for Alomomola and Suicune, HP Electric for Mantine, etc.). On the other hand, Choice Scarf outspeeds threats such as Mega Aerodactyl, Crobat, and other scarfers such as Krookodile and Mienshao. Substitute + Calm Mind sets have a really good matchup against stall teams, mainly Haze-less Mantine stall, which's kinda common at the moment don't ask me why.

I don't know what you mean by 'it doesn't present enough utility to compete with Cobalion, Latias, or Mew'. Of course Keldeo does have enough utility, lol. It has a really good defensive typing, outspeeds huge wallbreakers such as Specs Hydreigon and Choice Band Mienshao. Its only check on offense is Latias or Slowbro, which are easily threatened by Mega Absol's Pursuit or Knock Off, respectively, and since offense IS the most dominant playstyle right now, I think it's worth mentioning it. Balance teams suffer with Keldeo's presence too, even if this kind of playstyle has much more reliable ways to deal with Keldeo, although they still have few ways to counterplay Calm Mind + Normalium Z sets (Hyper Beam).

'scald nerf and lack of coverage to take advantage of Z-moves'

lol? Scald nerf was bad, yh, but Keldeo takes advantage of Z-Moves really well. Its most common Z-Move set is Calm Mind + Normalium Z, as it wears down common checks such as Slowbro, Celebi, and even Amoonguss if needed. Another set that cleans offense is Z-Rain Dance, which saw some use because it sets up Rain Dance, and alongside its STABs and Icy Wind it cleans offense squads with ease. Other sets with Icium Z or Waterium Z + CM can be used too since they give Keldeo better coverage options instead of the one-time nuke Breackneck Blitz, but Normalium Z hits more Pokemon in one slot.
tl;dr: Keldeo is fine where it is.
 
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First of all, I should just ignore your post for mentioning Dhelmise (blacklisted 'mon), because it's literally the worst 'mon in the tier and only bad people (yes, Shiba) use it, secondly, most your calcs are literally irrelevant, because you listed a LOT of unviable/below average Pokémon (Vaporeon, Jellicent, Necrozma, Dhelmise). I think you forgot Scarf Keldeo is not a wallbreaker, but an 'offense breaker'. Choice Specs Keldeo 2HKOes ALL the Pokemon you listed (With the right coverage and after Stealth Rock, such as Focus Blast for Alomomola and Suicune, HP Electric for Mantine, etc.). In the other hand, Choice Scarf outspeeds threats such as Mega Aerodactyl, Crobat, and other scarfers such as Krookodile and Mienshao. Substitute + Calm Mind sets have a really good matchup against stall teams, mainly Haze-less Mantine stall, which's kinda common at the moment don't ask me why.

I don't know what you mean by 'it doesn't present enough utility to compete with Cobalion, Latias, or Mew'. Of course Keldeo does have enough utility, lol. It has a really good defensive typing, outspeeds huge wallbreakers such as Specs Hydreigon and Choice Band Mienshao. Its only check on offense is Latias or Slowbro, which are easily threatened by Mega Absol's Pursuit or Knock Off, respectively, and since offense IS the most dominant playstyle right now, I think it's worth mentioning it. Balance teams suffer with Keldeo's presence too, even if this kind of playstyle has much more reliable ways to deal with Keldeo, although they still have few ways to counterplay Calm Mind + Normalium Z sets (Hyper Beam).

'scald nerf and lack of coverage to take advantage of Z-moves'

lol? Scald nerf was bad, yh, but Keldeo takes advantage of Z-Moves really well. Its most common Z-Move set is Calm Mind + Normalium Z, as it wears down common checks such as Slowbro, Celebi, and even Amoonguss if needed. Another set that cleans offense is Z-Rain Dance, which saw some use because it sets up Rain Dance, and alongside its STABs and Icy Wind it cleans offense squads with ease. Other sets with Icium Z or Waterium Z + CM can be used too since they give Keldeo better coverage options instead of the one-time nuke Breackneck Blitz, but Normalium Z hits more Pokemon in one slot.
tl;dr: Keldeo is fine where it is.
I included Dhelmise as a bit of a joke. It might be a bad mon but it still destroys Keldeo. I don't know why you're taking issue with my calcs, as I literally went through the viability list from top to bottom to demonstrate how non-specs Keldeo fares against bulky waters and psychics in the tier. Vaporeon was the only thing I listed not on the viability list, and it's still seen plenty on the ladder. I also declined to list a few niche checks like Toxicroak because the point was to show that any team with a bulky water or bulky psychic (aka 90% of teams) has a built in Keldeo check.

Again, the point of my post was not that Keldeo is bad (I'm still advocating it stay in the A tier) but to argue that it doesn't have the offensive presence or utility to stick with the other A+ tier pokemon. No one in this gen is building a team thinking "how do I handle Keldeo?" The same can't be said about M-Aero, M-Sharpedo, Latias, etc. and Keldeo doesn't have the hazard control or momentum potential of the other A+ and S tier mons.

Obviously Keldeo CAN use z-moves, the point is that a lot of mons can use them better. I'm not going to say that running Normalium-Z or Icium-Z can't work, but the opportunity cost of running them on Keldeo when you could be scarf'd or specs'd plus the fact that you can't have another z-user on your team is way too high.

Overall your tone was kind of rude and I think you missed the point of what I was saying.
 
First of all, I should just ignore your post for mentioning Dhelmise (blacklisted 'mon), because it's literally the worst 'mon in the tier and only bad people (yes, Shiba) use it, secondly, most your calcs are literally irrelevant, because you listed a LOT of unviable/below average Pokémon (Vaporeon, Jellicent, Necrozma, Dhelmise). I think you forgot Scarf Keldeo is not a wallbreaker, but an 'offense breaker'. Choice Specs Keldeo 2HKOes ALL the Pokemon you listed (With the right coverage and after Stealth Rock, such as Focus Blast for Alomomola and Suicune, HP Electric for Mantine, etc.). On the other hand, Choice Scarf outspeeds threats such as Mega Aerodactyl, Crobat, and other scarfers such as Krookodile and Mienshao. Substitute + Calm Mind sets have a really good matchup against stall teams, mainly Haze-less Mantine stall, which's kinda common at the moment don't ask me why.

I don't know what you mean by 'it doesn't present enough utility to compete with Cobalion, Latias, or Mew'. Of course Keldeo does have enough utility, lol. It has a really good defensive typing, outspeeds huge wallbreakers such as Specs Hydreigon and Choice Band Mienshao. Its only check on offense is Latias or Slowbro, which are easily threatened by Mega Absol's Pursuit or Knock Off, respectively, and since offense IS the most dominant playstyle right now, I think it's worth mentioning it. Balance teams suffer with Keldeo's presence too, even if this kind of playstyle has much more reliable ways to deal with Keldeo, although they still have few ways to counterplay Calm Mind + Normalium Z sets (Hyper Beam).

'scald nerf and lack of coverage to take advantage of Z-moves'

lol? Scald nerf was bad, yh, but Keldeo takes advantage of Z-Moves really well. Its most common Z-Move set is Calm Mind + Normalium Z, as it wears down common checks such as Slowbro, Celebi, and even Amoonguss if needed. Another set that cleans offense is Z-Rain Dance, which saw some use because it sets up Rain Dance, and alongside its STABs and Icy Wind it cleans offense squads with ease. Other sets with Icium Z or Waterium Z + CM can be used too since they give Keldeo better coverage options instead of the one-time nuke Breackneck Blitz, but Normalium Z hits more Pokemon in one slot.
tl;dr: Keldeo is fine where it is.
How is Necrozma unviable? It was high in usage back in January
 
How is Necrozma unviable? It was high in usage back in January
usage doesn't necessarily equate to viability. tb to vap chillin in UU all last gen even tho it was garb. Necrozma is basically 100% outclassed by Mew, with celebi also provided competition. Mew has a much better movepool and virtually identical stats, while celebis secondary STAB helps give it better offensive presence. More reliable recovery+pivoting moves are two big thing necrozma lacks.
 
usage doesn't necessarily equate to viability. tb to vap chillin in UU all last gen even tho it was garb. Necrozma is basically 100% outclassed by Mew, with celebi also provided competition. Mew has a much better movepool and virtually identical stats, while celebis secondary STAB helps give it better offensive presence. More reliable recovery+pivoting moves are two big thing necrozma lacks.
Necrozma has Moonlight and Morning Sun for recovery
 
Necrozma has Moonlight and Morning Sun for recovery
Both of which only have 8 pp and do jack shit under sand. While sand isn't a play style in and of itself on a regular basis, Hippo and Giga are common enough to make it suspect. Furthermore, Mew and Celebi have many other tools which necrozma lacks, such as nasty plot.
 

A Cake Wearing A Hat

moist and crusty
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How is Necrozma unviable? It was high in usage back in January
In addition to what was stated by Lightninging, it's generally thought that its best set in which Necrozma is not outclassed is CM stored power. This set, however, is definitely a meme and is walled by the incredibly common dark types in the tier due to Necrozma's inability to use HP fighting.
 

Hilomilo

High-low My-low
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I'm going to try and keep my cool, but please, I just fucking posted about not posting one or two sentence messages on this discussion thread. I'll say it again, the thread's purpose is to talk about what could rise and what could drop in order to reflect the current metagame as best as possible. That is NOT happening when you guys have a back and forth conversation about a Pokemon's PP on a move or access to a move or some dumb shit that can just be talked about over PM. PLEASE stop derailing discussion by posting one or two sentences. That doesn't contribute at all, and just frustrates people that are excited to see notifications regarding this thread, and find nothing of actual value in coming here.

Again, I don't want to come off as a MAJOR douchebag (minor douchery is inevitable for me), so I'm going to go ahead and say that Keldeo is absolutely worthy of maintaining its placement in A+. There is honestly close to no opportunity cost that comes with using Normalium Z Keldeo. It is pretty much uncontested as the best Special Z Move user in the tier, since every check that's been mentioned is going to take massive damage from a boosted Z-Hyper Beam. Just look:
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 350-412 (81.2 - 95.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primarina: 285-336 (78.2 - 92.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 258-304 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 391-460 (99.2 - 116.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma: 358-422 (89.9 - 106%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Keldeo Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 240 HP / 12 SpD Swampert: 350-412 (87.2 - 102.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

These are all Pokemon you said could reliably tank Keldeo's attacks, but I wouldn't assume that any of these mons would be doing too well under the circumstance that Keldeo managed to get a second Calm Mind under its belt (which would guarantee these OHKOs), which wouldn't be too hard given how easy it is to force switches with the thing. Overall, Keldeo's been able to adapt to the rise in its checks in the form of Normalium Z Calm Mind, and comes with almost no opportunity cost, since its easily as consistent as Cobalion. And to be honest, I don't quite understand your argument regarding Normalium Z coming at the cost of Specs/Scarf and using other Z Move users. Keldeo's like, the best Z Move user anyway, and if we've clarified that Specs and Scarf aren't as good as Normalium Z, how is it risky to run the latter over the former two options?
 
Hey me again. I'll leave my thoughts and expand upon on a nom that Bouff briefly mentioned.

Nomination: Mega Sharpedo

A+ ----->S

I'm sure a lot of you saw this coming, but sharpedo is so devastating at this moment that it truly has become meta-defining. We all know what Sharpedo does, so I won't bore you with the details; rather, I'll talk about how the metagame has shifted in favour of sharpedo over the past month.

Darkspam hazard stacking cores with Bisharp+Klefki (or just spikes in general with sharpedo) are ridiculously hard for any team to realistically handle. This is exacerbated by the fact that most of Sharpedo's commonly used checks, bar Clefable, 1) lack recovery and 2) despise spikes or 3) have fallen in viability. I'll go through some general checks (apply to most sharpedo sets) and more situational checks:

General Checks:

Cobalion: Lacks reliable recovery, 3HKOd by waterfall, hates spikes.
Swampert: Easily worn down due to lack of recovery.
M-Blastoise: Must be kept at full to actually check, as it is 2HKOd by crunch.
Suicune: Much less common and can only really fish for a scald burn to beat 1v1.
Tsareena: Must be brought in after sacking something, 2HKOd by crunch.
Conkeldurr: Not used nearly as often as it faces significant competition from more versatile fighting types; more opportunity cost to use it (aka using this mon often opens more weaknesses on your team then you'd like).
Clefable: Probably your best option, but is still 3HKOd and must be kept at full to actually switch in.
Scizor: Forced to roost if brought in immediately and, again, can only be brought in at full.

Situational Check (if ice fang):

Keldeo: No recovery, gets worn down easily.
Primarina: Similarly has no recovery and can't switch in more than once.

Situational Check (if psychic fangs):

Hydreigon: Less viable at the moment and either a) lacks recovery or b) is forced to roost upon switching in,
----------------

We can clearly see that Sharpedo is ridiculous to handle on its own. The checks that people are using (aka the ones I've listed) both lack recovery and get worn down to the point where they can get broken past (not hard if running a dark spam core with bisharp as well) and despise spikes. Moving on, offensively, checking Sharpedo is significantly harder this gen, simply because of the fact that priority is way less common -- most notably, the fall of Entei and Conkeldurr's viability. Not only that, but it's much easier to support Sharpedo this gen with Bisharp's existence, as it synergizes extremely well with hazard stacking.

Overall, metagame trends have really gone in favour of Sharpedo, as teams utilizing it have more tools at their disposal (bisharp) to take advantage of hazard stacking. Likewise, its ability to break past its checks with little effort (can literally 3HKO most, and most mons that people use to handle sharpedo bar clefable lack recovery) combined with the fall of staples that could otherwise threaten it out (entei, conk, etc.) means that sharpedo is an extremely dominant pokemon at this moment and deserves to rise.
 
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According to the March-Based Usage stats Dhelmise can drop from Dhelmise Rank--> Unranked because it moved from UU to RU by usage. Dhelmise can drop.
I also second Panther-T's nomination of Mega Sharpedo to S. Mega Sharp is so difficult to stop on offense due to its ability to pick up a +1 speed in regular form and then go to town after becoming mega.
 
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I think that Decidueye should be moved from B to B- or C+. Its only true niche is access to Spirit Shackle, which is a great move, but it really doesn't have the stats to really abuse it. As a boosting sweeper or wallbreaker, it's outclassed by Scizor, Absol and Bisharp. Scizor gets access to U-turn and Technician-boosted Bullet Punch, Absol is a pain for stall teams to combat thanks to Magic Bounce, and Bisharp provides an answer to Defoggers and has Knock Off. As a "cleaner", Decidueye is worse than Mega Sharpedo, Scizor (again) and a variety of Choice Scarf users (namely Krookodile and M-Aero).

Speaking of Bisharp, once it dropped it completely screwed Decidueye's chances of pulling off a sweep. Bisharp can switch in on any move Decidueye throws out and force it out, which it can then abuse to set up boosts or Pursuit and kill. Clefable has a similar effect. It can take anything that Decidueye can throw out, even boosted, and set up Stealth Rocks, kill it with Fire Blast, or set up Calm Mind in it's face. Unaware sets don't even care about the boosts.

The meta isn't kind to it either. The advent of Mega Sharpedo's rise in popularity and the aftermentioned Bisharp being use in Darkspam hazard stacking cores seriously puts a dent in Decidueye's viability. These cores dismantle balance like no one's business, which is one of Decidueye's primary purposes.

Overall, Decidueye is hurt by simply being outclassed, but is also hurt by tier drops and meta shifts.
 

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I think that Decidueye should be moved from B to B- or C+. Its only true niche is access to Spirit Shackle, which is a great move, but it really doesn't have the stats to really abuse it. As a boosting sweeper or wallbreaker, it's outclassed by Scizor, Absol and Bisharp. Scizor gets access to U-turn and Technician-boosted Bullet Punch, Absol is a pain for stall teams to combat thanks to Magic Bounce, and Bisharp provides an answer to Defoggers and has Knock Off. As a "cleaner", Decidueye is worse than Mega Sharpedo, Scizor (again) and a variety of Choice Scarf users (namely Krookodile and M-Aero).

Speaking of Bisharp, once it dropped it completely screwed Decidueye's chances of pulling off a sweep. Bisharp can switch in on any move Decidueye throws out and force it out, which it can then abuse to set up boosts or Pursuit and kill. Clefable has a similar effect. It can take anything that Decidueye can throw out, even boosted, and set up Stealth Rocks, kill it with Fire Blast, or set up Calm Mind in it's face. Unaware sets don't even care about the boosts.

The meta isn't kind to it either. The advent of Mega Sharpedo's rise in popularity and the aftermentioned Bisharp being use in Darkspam hazard stacking cores seriously puts a dent in Decidueye's viability. These cores dismantle balance like no one's business, which is one of Decidueye's primary purposes.

Overall, Decidueye is hurt by simply being outclassed, but is also hurt by tier drops and meta shifts.
In addition to this, one of Decidueye's main niches used to be stallbreaking. However, the drop of Clefable has given stall the tools necessary to wall SD Decidueye, in the form of unaware Clef.

To further explain this statement about Clefable that we've both said, I'll post a couple calcs.


252 Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Decidueye Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 112-133 (28.4 - 33.7%) -- 97.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

This means that Decidueye is unable to 2HKO unaware Clefable.

Decidueye is moderately slow for a swords dance user without STAB priority, and is weak to five common types. While it does have some niches still, I'm sure, I have yet to see a Decidueye do anything important in any of the games in which I've faced it.

It is for this reason and for the reasons stated by duonz that I agree that Decidueye should Drop to B-.
 
this is UU bro. While what you stated is accurate imo, you should
post it in the ou viability rankings.

To make this thread not a total shitpost, Chandy should
move up. Issa ok scizor check and is our best spinblocker. See my earlier post for more deets on this sickass lightbulb holder.
Yes, I've already deleted my post with an explanation. Don't worry about it.

To make my own post less of a dumb one-liner, I'm going to agree with Mega Sharpedo to S. Between the power of its Strong Jaw STAB Crunch with great offensive coverage and high Speed, especially after a Speed Boost from base Shark, this thing is a plain ridiculous late-game sweeper/cleaner. While the choice of coverage leaves it vulnerable to specific Pokémon, they don't at all wall it, and the lack of priority aside from Scizor's BP (which Mega Sharpedo resists), it's got much less counterplay than before. That is why Mega Sharpedo should move to S.
 

YABO

King Turt
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Few things.

Hawlucha from C+>B/B-
This things fierce and severely underutilized at the moment. While it struggles to set up vs a lot of teams, it doesn't necessarily require it in all matchups. In matchups vs offensive teams you can sub down to serve as a fantastic cleaner and if you can manage to pick up a boost somewhere it's pretty much curtains. Versus more balanced/bulky offensive teams is where I've found that Lucha really shines. In these matchups your opponent either has a Gliscor or a Hippowdon, that's pretty much a fact. If it's Gliscor you're set and just wait for your shot and you win. If it's Hippo you find your turn and chunk out Hippo for half as it Whirlwinds you. Get a good WW roll and hippo is pretty much dead, freeing up the rest of your team. It's such a threatening mon that it forces specific plays from your opponent and lets you formulaically dismantle the opposing team. Just for reference some other pokemon you can set up on include Cobalion, Choiced Keldeo, -2/Choiced Hydrei, Gliscor, etc. Further, you can sub down to get your speed boost versus virtually everything. It requires good support but luckily everything that threatens it (clef, slowbro, etc) is handled very well by bisharp, a very natural partner. This also doesn't mention the Moldbreaker Z Skystrike set which apparently puts in work vs stall teams. I don't personally buy that set as it doesn't play to Hawlucha's natural strengths but it's certainly an option.

Haxorus from C+>B something
Bouff talked about this above but I just wanted to echo the sentiment. I really do like Haxorus in a lot of matchups. I've been using Z Outrage and while it's not on nearly the same level as the old Z move DDers, it still has more than enough threat level to warrant a rise. It's not too terribly hard to deal with the typical answers and the main issues are finding setup/removing priority, namely Scizor. I haven't tried Magneton but seeing as it's ranked as B+, I'd imagine DragMag is a viable strategy and as such, frees up Hax to run havoc on people.

Omastar from Unranked>C+ish
Once again lord helix has been shunned from the viability rankings at the beginning of the generation. Don't fret however as I am once again here to advocate for our savior's place in history. Seriously though, Omastar is legit good just like it was last gen. The new toy I've been messing around with is Z Hydro Pump which lets it actually try to break through a lot of the things that gave it trouble last gen, namely Blissey and other super fat mons. Blissey still requires some finagling as Hydro Vortex does around 65 at +2 but its certainly a start. Omastar really shines versus more balanced teams however where it can nab a boost and run through everything virtually uninhibited. Main things to watch out for being Scarfers faster than Rotom-C. The main thing that's changed for Omastar this gen though is the change of Weak Armor to +2 Speed. What this means is that switching in on moves such as weak Bullet Punch or what have you give you the speed you need to start threatening the faster members on your opponent's team. Also, Hydro Vortex is just fucking strong
252 SpA Omastar Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 136 SpD Scizor: 285-336 (83 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Gastrodon from B>C+
Simple reasoning here to be honest. Gastrodon's main boon from my point of view was handling Porygon Z relatively easily. Additionally, CM Latias' rising popularity limits Gastro's overall utility in a lot of matches. Not a terrible mon but nowhere near where it's ranked currently.
 

sparrow

kacaw
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

Upon further use of Raikou, I would like to nominate it for S rank.
CM + Z-move of choice is very difficult for teams to work around, ie. with Z-Hyper Beam, Raikou can take out a large number of its checks and counters, as I have outlined above. What makes CM Raikou so difficult to beat and viable over something such as CM Keldeo, is its Speed tier; for example: checks and counters to Keldeo are outsped by Raikou and promptly dealt with (Latias, Starmie [speed tie] & Gengar).

I would also like to raise the point that Raikou has arguably better coverage. In the case of Keldeo, versus teams consisting of more than one of the following isn't uncommon: Primarina, Slowbro, Amoonguss, Latias, Celebi, Tentacruel, Mantine, Toxicroak & Jellicent. Thereby using up its Normalium-z for only one threat. For Raikou in this example, Thunderbolt is an amazing STAB move to have, and being able to run coverage such as Shadow Ball & Hidden Power Ice, allow it to take on threats such as Latias, Celebi, Mew, Reuniclus, etc. reliably.

I'd like to focus on Normalium-z Raikou for the sake of this post. Firstly, versus HO Raikou is fantastic to run, nothing can really counter this Pokemon bar Scarf Krookodile on a good switch and M-Aerodactyl for the revenge KO - sure you could argue speed ties with Zygarde-10%, Azelf, M-Absol & Starmie, but 50% of the time those Pokemon are losing and Zygarde is the only Pokemon that could switch in safely. Versus Balance & Bulky Offence is the reason why Raikou, in my opinion, is worthy of S-rank.

I am going to compare CM Raikou to CM Keldeo. Traditionally, Keldeo is a massive threat to these bulkier teams, with CM + Normalium-z there isn't much that can take on Keldeo. The problem that Keldeo faces is the fact that it is Keldeo, and everyone is preparing for it. Not to mention the fact that almost every balance & bulky offence team is running Latias! On these kind of teams people are running check upon check for Keldeo; it's not uncommon to see cores consisting of Pokemon to take on Keldeo. Let's compare this to Raikou, with +1 Thunderbolt & Shadow Ball promptly deal with the majority of Pokemon on bulky builds (I don't feel I need to post calcs for this). Z-Hyperbeam is what makes Raikou amazing, as posted above, with a tiny bit of chip checks such as Swampert, Hippowdon, Amoonguss & Gliscor are all dealt with.

Pros to Keldeo include having a better Stall match up, and breaking power in general, but Keldeo is easier to cover, not only because of its Speed Tier, but also its coverage (ie. everyone is prepared for it). Raikou is fantastic right now because of the state of the metagame. A ton of Pokemon are focused around checking threats such as Keldeo, Scizor, Bisharp, Clefable & Sharpedo. Being able to capitalise on this, is what has made Raikou so good. Not being walled by shit like Dhelmise is nice too.

I would also like to introduce Bruxish to the VR. I am a strong advocate for this Pokemon and would see it sit comfortably in C+ / B-
Leaning towards a B- ranking on this one because, although underrated, this Pokemon is a legitimate threat to Stall & Bulky builds. Bruxish is incredibly scary to switch into for bulky teams, and if it has the right support can do a ton of damage. With coverage such as Aqua Jet it can also do some nice chip versus HO and can net surprise KOs on Pokemon such as Krookodile at +1.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bruxish Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Krookodile: 289-343 (87.3 - 103.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bruxish Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 369-437 (122.5 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bruxish Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 351-416 (134.4 - 159.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bruxish Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 424-502 (144.7 - 171.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So I've been using Bruxish a whole lot on the UU ladder and I think it deserves some love. Strong Jaw + Psychic Fangs / Crunch give it really neat coverage and it can even run Ice Fang for coverage on Pokemon such as Hydreigon.

In terms of switching in, Bruxish doesn't have any bulk to speak of (ie. less than infernape) but don't let that deter you. Sporting handy resistances to Fighting, Fire, Steel, Water, Ice & Psychic; Bruxish is able to find small set up opportunities against some common threats. If heavily supported by either Aurora Veil or Screens, and Healing Wish, Bruxish is an absolute monster.

Bruxish is very scary for opposing bulkier builds, especially if their fast mons have been removed (or are weak to Aqua Jet). Bruxish can take on Amoonguss & Tentacruel and utilises other fat mons (such as: Clefable, Hippowdon, Gliscor, Swampert, Slowbro, Blissey, Suicune, etc.) as an opportunity for set up.

Being quite adept at breaking stall is what makes Bruxish viable, in my opinion. Almost everything on a stall team faces a 2hko from Bruxish, excluding Mandibuzz.
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 224-265 (56.8 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 212-251 (44 - 52.1%) -- 74.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 204-242 (51.9 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 464-546 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Crunch vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 205-242 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 153-181 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 250-296 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Bruxish's sheer power is something that should strongly be considered in terms of its nominated induction into the VR. Although, incredibly powerful it is very frail and forced to run Adamant in order to do any damage, forcing it to be quite slow. Finding opportunities to set up are a challenge for the Bruxish user making it very high risk, but very high reward. Teams will need to support Bruxish heavily in order for it to be successful. Common Pokemon such as Hydreigon, Sharpedo & Mandibuzz also wall the fish quite easily, further reducing its overall viability in the tier.
 
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