SM UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Xyldaz]

I'd like to nominate two mons that I have used extensively in the current meta and are in really low ranks but do have significant niches right now.

Necrozma from C+ to B-
Necro is probably one of the best bulky CMer currently, even being on par with latias imo. As while latias has better speed, an added dragon typing and true reliable recovery, Necrozma is bulkier on the physical side, has a very good ability for its role and is much more powerful. These aspects allow it to lure in crucial mons like Bisharp and Scizor that Latias or even Cresselia would be unable to bypass.
Prism Armor even allows it to setup on powerful super effective moves from mons such as Krook.

I'll be using the spread of 252 hp/72 def/184+ spe for Necrozma which allows it to outspeed Jolly Bisharp.

Defensive calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 351-413 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 218-259 (54.7 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 177-208 (48.6 - 57.1%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Necrozma: 150-177 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Krookodile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 320-380 (87.9 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Krookodile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 202-240 (50.7 - 60.3%)
252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Necrozma: 141-166 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO once knocked off

Offensive calcs

0 SpA Latias Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 224-268 (79.7 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Necrozma Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 256-304 (91.1 - 108.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (guaranteed w/ rocks)

0 SpA Latias Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 124-148 (45.7 - 54.6%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Necrozma Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 142-168 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Overall, Necrozma is a very decent mon in the current meta as a bulky CMer that should be used as a lure or to sweep lategame when your opponent still thinks scizor or their dark type is a full stop to it.
(bulky rock setter is quite bad tho and outclassed by Mew and Celebi)

Rhyperior from Unranked to C
Rhyperior also is a mon which struggles to find its niche in nowadays meta, mostly because of Hippodown existence. However, it diffentiates itself with its rock typing and once again great ability (which is basically the same as Necrozma haha)
It mostly checks the same mons as Hippo, while having trouble with fighting, ground and steel types. But its added rock typing allows it to checks key threats like Togekiss, CM Z-Hyper Beam Raikou which is gaining popularity, most fire-types and has a powerful rock stab in rock blast, useful for Frosslass. It can also run specific coverage to lure a couple of mons : elemental punches for Scizor or Gliscor and Megahorn for Celebi. Not necessarily better than Hippo, but it has its niches.

old long ass game showcasing a Rhyperior+Necrozma balance: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuubeta-521112836

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

I'll be using the spread of 252 hp/72 def/184+ spe for Necrozma which allows it to outspeed Jolly Bisharp.

Defensive calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 351-413 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 218-259 (54.7 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 177-208 (48.6 - 57.1%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Necrozma: 150-177 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Krookodile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 320-380 (87.9 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Krookodile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 202-240 (50.7 - 60.3%)
252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Necrozma: 141-166 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO once knocked off

Offensive calcs

0 SpA Latias Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 224-268 (79.7 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Necrozma Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 256-304 (91.1 - 108.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (guaranteed w/ rocks)

0 SpA Latias Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 124-148 (45.7 - 54.6%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Necrozma Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 142-168 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I have several problems with these calcs that you provided. First off, Latias does not commonly run 252 HP EVs or 0 SpA EVs. Its primary spread is 252 SpA / 252+ Spe. Also, Latias commonly runs a life orb when running hidden power fire in order to OHKO scizor. , and runs Soul Dew otherwise rather than leftovers.

Also, the Krookodile calc does not result in a guaranteed 3HKO once knocked off for Necrozma. There will be a chance to 2HKO still, since the max rolls for knock off and EQ, 60.3% and 41.7% respectively, add up to 102%, and the Leftovers recovery will not be taken into effect because it gets knocked off.

 

[Xyldaz]

I have several problems with these calcs that you provided. First off, Latias does not commonly run 252 HP EVs or 0 SpA EVs. Its primary spread is 252 SpA / 252+ Spe. Also, Latias commonly runs a life orb when running hidden power fire in order to OHKO scizor. , and runs Soul Dew otherwise rather than leftovers.

Also, the Krookodile calc does not result in a guaranteed 3HKO once knocked off for Necrozma. There will be a chance to 2HKO still, since the max rolls for knock off and EQ, 60.3% and 41.7% respectively, add up to 102%, and the Leftovers recovery will not be taken into effect because it gets knocked off.

I'm comparing CM Latias and CM Necrozma as they share a similar role, and Latias Calm Mind bulky set runs 252hp and 252 speed with lefties, its a different set than the common Life Orb usual one.

Against Knock Off users, Necrozma should try to recover on the first Knock Off, turning the 2hko into a 3hko - meaning it can even setup on most of them

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

I'm comparing CM Latias and CM Necrozma as they share a similar role, and Latias Calm Mind bulky set runs 252hp and 252 speed with lefties, its a different set than the common Life Orb usual one.

Against Knock Off users, Necrozma should try to recover on the first Knock Off, turning the 2hko into a 3hko - meaning it can even setup on most of them!

Oh, my bad. I thought you meant to compare it to the standard offensive CM Latias, but it slipped my mind that Stored Power versions run max HP. However, I still wonder what coverage one would run for Krookodile on CM Necrozma if you plan to set up on it, seeing as Necrozma does not learn HP Fighting and it is immune to Stored Power.

EDIT: In order to not make this a one-liner, I'd also like to add that I agree that Rhyperior deserves to at least be ranked C-, although I believe its niche is moreso wallbreaking with its 140 base attack and STAB EdgeQuake than a defensive role.

 

[Illusion's FTW]

Bewear B- -> B/B+

This pokemon is amazing and it completly shows that it is, thanks to fluffy it can survive 3 aerial aces from aerodactyl, any physical fighting move, basically shit that makes contact with it (not an innuendo). This is also further backed with its nice offensive typing in Normal and Fighting which makes it resistant to rocks and immune to Decidueye's Spirit Shackle. Not only that it has nice offensive and defensive stats in 120 hp/80 defense gives it a chance at surviving any physical attack that gets thrown at it, and with 125 Attack and moves such as Double Edge, Facade, Return, Frustration, Hammer Arm, Superpower, Ice Punch, Shadow Claw, Rock Slide, Dragon Claw (if you want to hit pesky latiases), and Earthquake can really hit its foes hard. It goes through things like Scizor, Bisharp, Clefable, Cobalion, Krookidile, Klefki, Absol-Mega, and a couple more pokemon that run rampant in UU. The only bad part to this huggable creature is its weakness to fire moves and its mediocre 60 sp.def which can ruin this bears day if it ever faces a special attacker like keldeo, alakazam, latias, primarina, and volcanion + many more. but really...

Dont try to hug this bear.... no matter how cute it is, just don't because...

252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 262-309 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Klefki: 280-331 (88.3 - 104.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Bewear Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 114-136 (35.5 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

and so forth. Like god damn is this bear on steriods or something? anyways aside from the nonsense, i think this justifys why bewear is a contender for this nomination to either B or B+ rank. In my opinion it deserves it quite alot due to its decent ability and great defensive + offensive stats. just remember, DONT HUG THE BEAR

 

[Faka12]

I would also like to introduce Bruxish to the VR. I am a strong advocate for this Pokemon and would see it sit comfortably in C+ / B-

Explanation

Leaning towards a B- ranking on this one because, although underrated, this Pokemon is a legitimate threat to Stall & Bulky builds. Bruxish is incredibly scary to switch into for bulky teams, and if it has the right support can do a ton of damage. With coverage such as Aqua Jet it can also do some nice chip versus HO and can net surprise KOs on Pokemon such as Krookodile at +1.

calcs

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bruxish Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Krookodile: 289-343 (87.3 - 103.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bruxish Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 369-437 (122.5 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bruxish Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 351-416 (134.4 - 159.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bruxish Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 424-502 (144.7 - 171.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So I've been using Bruxish a whole lot on the UU ladder and I think it deserves some love. Strong Jaw + Psychic Fangs / Crunch give it really neat coverage and it can even run Ice Fang for coverage on Pokemon such as Hydreigon.

In terms of switching in, Bruxish doesn't have any bulk to speak of (ie. less than infernape) but don't let that deter you. Sporting handy resistances to Fighting, Fire, Steel, Water, Ice & Psychic; Bruxish is able to find small set up opportunities against some common threats. If heavily supported by either Aurora Veil or Screens, and Healing Wish, Bruxish is an absolute monster.

Bruxish is very scary for opposing bulkier builds, especially if their fast mons have been removed (or are weak to Aqua Jet). Bruxish can take on Amoonguss & Tentacruel and utilises other fat mons (such as: Clefable, Hippowdon, Gliscor, Swampert, Slowbro, Blissey, Suicune, etc.) as an opportunity for set up.

Being quite adept at breaking stall is what makes Bruxish viable, in my opinion. Almost everything on a stall team faces a 2hko from Bruxish, excluding Mandibuzz.

calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 224-265 (56.8 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 212-251 (44 - 52.1%) -- 74.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 204-242 (51.9 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 464-546 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Crunch vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 205-242 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 153-181 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Bruxish Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 250-296 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Bruxish's sheer power is something that should strongly be considered in terms of its nominated induction into the VR. Although, incredibly powerful it is very frail and forced to run Adamant in order to do any damage, forcing it to be quite slow. Finding opportunities to set up are a challenge for the Bruxish user making it very high risk, but very high reward. Teams will need to support Bruxish heavily in order for it to be successful. Common Pokemon such as Hydreigon, Sharpedo & Mandibuzz also wall the fish quite easily, further reducing its overall viability in the tier.

Replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-546927482
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-546917789
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-546613828
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-546901428
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-546581013
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-536169459
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-536157786
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-536154182

I agree with this nomination. While Bruxish doesn't have the best match up vs offense and finding set up opportunities it's quite difficult with things like Hydreigon, Sharpedo, and Bisharp, it is true that is fantastic vs more bulky and stall-ish teams, and it deserves some attention for that. Strong Jaw Psychic Fangs it's certainly no small feat.

 

[Sacri']

Upon further use of Raikou, I would like to nominate it for S rank.

Long Ass Explanation

CM + Z-move of choice is very difficult for teams to work around, ie. with Z-Hyper Beam, Raikou can take out a large number of its checks and counters, as I have outlined above. What makes CM Raikou so difficult to beat and viable over something such as CM Keldeo, is its Speed tier; for example: checks and counters to Keldeo are outsped by Raikou and promptly dealt with (Latias, Starmie [speed tie] & Gengar).

I would also like to raise the point that Raikou has arguably better coverage. In the case of Keldeo, versus teams consisting of more than one of the following isn't uncommon: Primarina, Slowbro, Amoonguss, Latias, Celebi, Tentacruel, Mantine, Toxicroak & Jellicent. Thereby using up its Normalium-z for only one threat. For Raikou in this example, Thunderbolt is an amazing STAB move to have, and being able to run coverage such as Shadow Ball & Hidden Power Ice, allow it to take on threats such as Latias, Celebi, Mew, Reuniclus, etc. reliably.

I'd like to focus on Normalium-z Raikou for the sake of this post. Firstly, versus HO Raikou is fantastic to run, nothing can really counter this Pokemon bar Scarf Krookodile on a good switch and M-Aerodactyl for the revenge KO - sure you could argue speed ties with Zygarde-10%, Azelf, M-Absol & Starmie, but 50% of the time those Pokemon are losing and Zygarde is the only Pokemon that could switch in safely. Versus Balance & Bulky Offence is the reason why Raikou, in my opinion, is worthy of S-rank.

I am going to compare CM Raikou to CM Keldeo. Traditionally, Keldeo is a massive threat to these bulkier teams, with CM + Normalium-z there isn't much that can take on Keldeo. The problem that Keldeo faces is the fact that it is Keldeo, and everyone is preparing for it. Not to mention the fact that almost every balance & bulky offence team is running Latias! On these kind of teams people are running check upon check for Keldeo; it's not uncommon to see cores consisting of Pokemon to take on Keldeo. Let's compare this to Raikou, with +1 Thunderbolt & Shadow Ball promptly deal with the majority of Pokemon on bulky builds (I don't feel I need to post calcs for this). Z-Hyperbeam is what makes Raikou amazing, as posted above, with a tiny bit of chip checks such as Swampert, Hippowdon, Amoonguss & Gliscor are all dealt with.

Pros to Keldeo include having a better Stall match up, and breaking power in general, but Keldeo is easier to cover, not only because of its Speed Tier, but also its coverage (ie. everyone is prepared for it). Raikou is fantastic right now because of the state of the metagame. A ton of Pokemon are focused around checking threats such as Keldeo, Scizor, Bisharp, Clefable & Sharpedo. Being able to capitalise on this, is what has made Raikou so good. Not being walled by shit like Dhelmise is nice too.

Replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-546930481
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-546577204

Despite being a Raikou enthusiastic, I simply can't get behind this nomination. Your post focuses on CM Z Raikou which, despite being a good set, only makes it slightly better than it was before. Raikou is indeed a rather anti meta threat at the moment, that alone is far from enough to make it S rank. Raikou isnt nearly as consistent and effective as the S or even A+ ranks. It's bulk isn't that great and it's offensive capabilites are also limited by it's reliance on normalium z. Despite being effective, this item has drawbacks. For one, Raikou is rather weak without the extra power given by Choice Specs or even Z Plate. You absolutely need to be at +1 to actually damage opposing teams which isn't that easy for something with a subpar bulk and an average at best defensive typing. I also dont really get the point of comparing CM Keldeo & CM Raikou. Keldeo is indeed more prepared for but it deals with key threats such as Scizor and Bisharp whereas Raikou barely beats Primarina 1v1. Not running sub also means Raikou can be spored by amoonguss among all the common status moves. Also something I find worth noting, this Raikou variant needs to luck to beat all variants of CM when Clefable is supposed to be one of the main things you set up against. I wouldnt mind Raikou moving up to A but S doesn't quite fit Raikou's effectiveness in the current metagame. On a side note, your replays dont actually mean much considering your opponents teams weren't that great all together and you still needed Aurora veil to be able to sweep.

 

[Theodoric]

Gliscor A-→A
I firmly believe that this pokemon is at hippowdon and krook level. Its wide movepool and various sets available make it rather unpredictable. Depending on the ev spread, it can check sd scizor, aerodactyl, opposing ground types, most fighting types... And even latias or hydreigon with roost+poison heal. Indeed, it is overshadowed as a stall breaker by taunt krook, cm keldeo, sd scizor, etc, but the sd facade set gives it a niche. Waters like keldeo, starmie, primarina are big issues and hold it back for sure. But it's one of the more reliable stealth rock setter in the tier. Furthermore, access to taunt and u-turn is nice for momentum in offensive teams. Honestly, it's a very splashable pokemon, that provides both electric and ground immunities to any team and can be pain to play against for volt turn builds and slower teams

 

[ProfessorMasterChief]

I wanted to voice support for Haxorus to move up. While offensive teams don't give it too many switch ins, Haxorus is really tough for bulky teams to deal with, ignoring unaware and being capable of powering through Fairy types. Even offensive teams still don't exactly switch into it, so if it gets an opportunity to fire off an attack, the opponent will probably have to sack something. I've been using it with anything that appreciates Fairies gone, since Haxorus does a good job of baiting in Fairies, and still does a good job of breaking down walls. I support it moving up, and I would say more if Bouff didn't cover most of what I would want to say about

 

[Nightingales]

Agreeing with the above because Hax is terrifying. Like. Seriously. Stall's answers to it can't switch in much if at all and offense tends to be too frail to stop it. And that's just neutral. Dragon dance dismantles offense at +1 and SD + Taunt can ruin stalls day, with any mixture of the two being able to go to work on balance. Add that to somewhat decent natural bulk and sky-high attack and it just seems misplaced.

 

[yeezyknows]

I'd like to nominate Keldeo for S-rank. Simply put, there is only one true counter to Keldeo currently existing in the tier: Amoonguss.

Mantine, Latias, Clefable, Celebi, Primarina, and Tentacruel, the tier's most common switch-ins, all face heavy pressure and in the majority of cases, 2HKOs, from Specs variants. Offensive Defog Latias is 2HKOed after SR by Icy Wind, Primarina is 2HKOed after SR by Secret Sword, with Hydro Pump also having a 25% chance to 2HKO. Mantine is OHKOed after SR by HP Electric, CM Clefable is 2HKOed by both Scald and Hydro Pump, and SR Clefable is 2HKOed by Hydro Pump, with a minor chance for Scald to 2HKO. Icy Wind 2HKOs NP Celebi, and Hydro Pump can 3HKO Tentacruel, with Tentacruel offering little offensive output in response, barring Knock Off.

Obviously the majority of mons will switch out after being hit by one of the 2HKO moves, so kills are rarely guaranteed, but as a result these common checks are awarded few actual switch-ins, and even fewer exist in the case of mons that lack direct recovery like Tentacruel, Celebi, and Primarina. Keldeo has the unique ability to apply so much pressure to hard checks, providing it with a profound degree of versatility as both an overt wallbreaker and as a late-game wincon. This also makes Scald/Secret Sword/Hydro Pump ridiculously and thoughtlessly spammable against teams with only one dedicated check/hard check.

Keldeo's viability and the justification for it being S-rank are further accentuated by how versatile it is. Scarf and CM variants are incredibly useful in their own right, worthy of further analysis in and of themselves.

Thoughts?

Calcs

Mantine:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Mantine: 292-348 (78.7 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Defog Latias:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 144-170 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

CM Clefable:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 291-343 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 211-250 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

SR Clefable:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 244-288 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Primarina:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 132-156 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 118-139 (39.2 - 46.1%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Celebi:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Celebi: 180-212 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Tentacruel:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 114-135 (31.3 - 37%) -- 85% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Sylveon: C- --> D

Sylveon has absolutely no niche whatsoever in the current metagame. Its old specs set has been outclassed for a long time by Primarina, who hits harder and has a much better offensive typing. Its cleric and calm mind sets are also outclassed by the semi-new UU mon, Clefable. Despite having lower special bulk, Clefable more than makes up for it with higher physical bulk, access to Softboiled if needed, Magic Guard or Unaware, and coverage for steel types in Flamethrower (Among other goodies in its movepool). Clefable even learns heal bell if you need a fairy-type heal bell cleric that badly.

Sylveon's main advantage is that its attacks pass through substitutes, but this is nowhere near enough of a reason to ever use Sylveon over either Primarina or Clefable in the current meta.

 

[Pearl]

Excuse us for the delay! Here's the VR update you've all been waiting for! To start things off, the following Pokemon have been removed from the rankings:

Alakazam - Considering it's been banned in the most recent vote, Alakazam is getting removed from the rankings for now. If the council decides to keep it then I will add it back.

Araquanid - Very little reason to use this over other Water-type nukes such as Crawdaunt, Keldeo and even Primarina, all of which carry much better secondary types and are more versatile in general.

Comfey - No reason to use this as a Calm Mind user with Clefable in the tier, even if Fairy-type priority is as unique as niches can get.

Dhelmise - No longer UU by usage, so it only makes sense that we drop it entirely from the rankings.

The following Pokemon have been added to the rankings:

Slowking (B-) - Feel free to check out the many posts that have been made regarding this Pokemon in the last couple of pages. It's starting a little lower than suggested, but the gist of it is that the extra Special Defense points and access to tools such as Nasty Plot and Dragon Tail allow Slowking to shine over its slower brother in some scenarios. After using it for a while myself, I can say that Future Sight + Dragon Tail Slowking is obnoxiously tricky to play against.

Bruxish (C-) - Unique niche as a balance breaker with strong priority in Aqua Jet and a boosting move in Swords Dance. Besides that, STAB + Strong Jaw Psychic Fangs is an amazing nuke, and pokemon sparrow has covered everything else nicely in his post, even including some pretty interesting replays.

Darmanitan (C-) - For whatever reason, this has moved up to UU by usage. Don't ask me why, but it'll be starting out at C- due to the existence of a possible niche as a physical Fire-type hard hitter. However, it's worth keeping in mind that I'm sort of tempted to just move this down to D, so consider it a discussion point as well.

The following Pokemon have moved up the rankings:

Aerodactyl (Mega) (A+ to S) - For reference, feel free to check out the many posts supporting this nomination. The fact that the metagame is a lot more offensive than it was back in ORAS does wonders to this Pokemon's viability. The fact that it can be slapped on pretty much every sort of team (unlike Mega Sharpedo) only makes it better, and considering that along with other users have mentioned in their posts, we're moving the king of UU back to its deserved rank.

Raikou (A- to A) - Once again, pokemon sparrow wrote a nice post about this Pokemon (although he probably exaggerated many of Raikou's traits along the way). The general idea is that you either run Swampert, Hippowdon or Blissey or your team is automatically vulnerable to Raikou. Calm Mind combined with Z moves (Hyper Beam and even Extrasensory for Amoonguss) is something people have been toying it lately for good success, and it adds a whole new layer of versatility to this Pokemon.

Infernape (B to B+) - Basically a repeat of the last time Infernape moved up. Being one of the few offensive checks to Bisharp, one of the few offensive Fire-types in UU and one of the best Choice Scarf users all in one Pokemon makes Infernape amazing on offense and worth moving up even further.

Haxorus (C+ to B-) - Although many people have missed the main selling point of Haxorus (yeah, killing Alakazam is pretty nice, but it's not the extent of what this Pokemon can do), its ability to guarantee at least one kill against slower teams with Devastating Drake, all while remaining perfectly usable against some faster paced teams, places it above everything else that currently sits in C+.

Ribombee (C to C+) - One of the discussion points of the last update. Amazing Speed tier, enough Special Attack to run a mean Choice Specs set and access to U-turn make this Pokemon one of offense's worst match ups, which is pretty amazing in the current metagame. The weakness to Scizor can be annoying, but forcing it in every time can be exploited by Pokemon such as Magneton and Empoleon, two of the most common partners to Ribombee.

The following Pokemon have moved down the rankings:

Bisharp (S to A+) - A lot of people have shared their thoughts on this change, and although not everyone was in agreement, we've decided to move Bisharp down to A+. Although it's still one of the most influential Pokemon (which is shown by the fact that very few teams leave home without their Cobalion, Keldeo or Infernape), the truth is that the metagame evolved in a way that makes it harder for Bisharp to perform its role as consistently as it did earlier in SM UU. It's still pretty strong though, and I urge you all to give its Swords Dance set a try (as opposed to Assault Vest and Pursuit sets), but it's hard to justify having it on the same level as Clefable and Scizor.

Mew (A+ to A) - Although it has a lot of potential to straight up win games against unprepared teams (in a similar fashion to Bisharp), it's pretty hard to justify Mew's spot in A+ when it only has two sets that aren't straight up outclassed by a different Pokemon (those being the stallbreaker set and Defog) and everyone is prepared to handle Taunt + Will-O-Wisp shenanigans, be it through simply overpowering Mew or packing a Regenerator core to stall it out of PP on stall teams.

Chandelure (B- to C+) - With #1 Chandelure connoisseur King UU barely showing signs of activity, it's only natural that we'd want to move this Pokemon down. Jokes aside, this post sums the point up quite nicely. Poor match up against most of the metagame's offensive threats and competition as a balance/stallbreaker means that Chandelure is pretty hard pressed to perform. Taunt / Substitute sets can be dangerous, but the lack of immediate power or Speed is more often than not a fatal flaw which puts this Pokemon slightly below other threats that currently sit in B-.

Sylveon (C- to D) - Literally got explained in the post above, which saves me some effort n_n

As always, let me know if you spot any mistakes in the rankings! Below, dodmen will be covering the discussion points for the next update, as well as the nominations that have been mentioned in the thread but didn't go through.

 

[dodmen]

Discussion Points

Klefki: A to A-. While the support Klefki brings with Spikes is amazing and Thunder Wave is amazing, it's definitely not as splashable as the other Pokemon in A rank, can be taken advantage of by certain threats, and struggles to check all that it needs to with only 4 moves.

Hydreigon: A- to A. Hydreigon has proven once again to be a top offensive threat in the tier. It finds common switchin opportunities on Pokemon like Hippowdon, Slowbro, and Celebi, and threatens a huge amount of the tier with its STABs. With Clefable and Togekiss being the main defensive Fairy-types of the tier, there's no longer a need to risk Iron Tail, as Life Orb Flash Cannon easily 2HKOes both even without prior damage. However, it also has many offensive checks, like Keldeo, Cobalion, and Primarina, that can take advantage of its presence, and is rather prediction reliant against common balance cores.

Hippowdon: A to A-. Hippowdon is an amazing support Pokemon that stops many dangerous threats, but gives absolutely free switches to many others, including several entry hazard removers. Additionally, it's commonly prepared for when building with Pokemon like Raikou and Toxicroak, using various teammates or their own Z moves as lures for Hippowdon.

Togekiss: A- to A. Togekiss is an excellent punisher of most defensive teams that also brings a lot of defensive utility to the table. Nasty Plot effortlessly breaks defensive teams that don't go out of their way to prepare for it, and the Thunder Wave set in particular is especially difficult for offensive teams to deal with it. However, it doesn't necessarily completely 6-0 stall, as something like Unaware Clefable + Blissey can stall it out, and Mega Aerodactyl is a hard stop as well. Togekiss also falls to commonly used coverage moves from Pokemon like Hydreigon and Conkeldurr, and also gives dangerous Pokemon like Cobalion and Raikou easy setup opportunities, so this nom could go either way.

Zygarde-10%: B + to B. With Clefable in the tier, Zygarde struggles to shred offensive teams as it once used to, and has plenty of common defensive answers seen on most balance teams. It also has almost no defensive utility so it's not easy to bring onto the field, and it's easily picked off by priority and faster Pokemon commonly found on offense.

Conkeldurr: B- to B. Conkeldurr is an excellent pivot that's rather difficult to deal with before you know the full set. AV is can rack up damage against offensive teams that can't switch into or OHKO it, while more offensive sets are also great for picking up massive damage on stuff like Clefable. Its priority is also very welcome to check stuff like Bisharp and Sharpedo, as always.

Registeel: Unranked to C-: Not many reliable bulky Steels in the tier and Registeel provides SR + a good answer to some stuff like Latias. Its higher overall bulk and less susceptibility to Bisharp/Scizor set it apart from Bronzong.

Quagsire: C to C+. Nearly a necessity on stall to beat Bisharp, offensive SD Scizor, Cobalion, CM Clefable, but kind of difficult to fit on other kinds of teams due to its lack of raw bulk.

Hawlucha: C+ to B-. Has several setup opportunities against stuff like Cobalion and Krookodile and can easily sweep offensive teams that lack priority from there. However, it needs a lot of prior damage on balance teams and is really weak, not even being able to OHKO Gengar without a boost, for example. Overall, a rather situational sweeper, but worth discussion.

Omastar: Unranked to C. Omastar can punish a lot of bulky offensive teams with Weak Armor and its nice typing and bulk. Even if it isn't granted a setup chance, it can still smash something with a powerful Hydro Vortex, but it can also easily tank something like Mega Aerodactyl's EQ or Mega Sharpedo's Crunch to pick up a kill. Overall, it's outclassed by Crawdaunt who hits way harder, has better STABs, and has priority, but it's still probably worth a rank.

Minior: C- to C. Similar to Hawlucha and Omastar, Minior can threaten a ton of balance teams with Sub + Shell Smash, and is arguably easier to set up than either of these. However, it's also a lot more susceptible to priority and the rocks weakness is really bad, and it's also way more useless than either of the above two Pokemon if they don't get the chance to set up.

Cofagrigus: Unranked to C-. Mainly for the OTR set, although possibly for its defensive set on stall teams as well.

Rejected Nominations

Suicune: B to B+. While Suicune is admittedly underprepared for in this metagame, it's overall too passive to move up to the same level as its closest competitor, Slowbro.

Bewear: B- to B+. Good for a kill in most games, but doesn't stand out enough from fellow wallbreakers to move up. Despite its good ability, doesn't have notable switchin opportunities against many teams.

Keldeo: A+ to A. Keldeo is one of the most influential Pokemon in UU, and its few counters can either be 2HKOd with coverage, or KOed by Breakneck Blitz. Unless you're running Amoonguss, Keldeo is going to find its way on the field and outright threaten everything on the field.

Mega Absol: B+ to A-. In theory, Mega Absol can threaten every single Pokemon in the tier with an all out attacking set, but the simple problem of 4mss as well as absolutely no switchin opportunities holds it back from a higher rank.

Amoonguss: B+ to A-. Really good utility Pokemon, but usually too passive after it's put something to sleep, and liable to get overwhelmed by stuff like item removal, burns, sand, and coverage from the Pokemon it checks.

Empoleon: B to B+. As an avid SpDef Empoleon user myself, I can't say that I think it should rise higher than B. For one, having a Steel-type that is 1v1d by both Scizor and Clefable makes teambuilding really annoying and having to repeatedly switch into these Pokemon makes it hard for Empoleon to do the many other things it wants to. That said, it's still a really good early-game utility Pokemon that can control hazards well against many teams. Offensive 3 attacks is also great, as it was last gen.

Nidoqueen: B- to B. Nidoking's higher Speed is simply better in this metagame, outspeeding Togekiss, Chandelure, and most Gliscor variants. It also outspeeds base 70s, which Nidoqueen can do with a Timid nature, but sacrifices its power (becoming weaker than Nidoking at that point), and not even really having enough bulk to make up for it. Past gens have favored Nidoqueen's bulk, but there's just too many things that Nidoking outspeeds now.

Kyurem: B- to B. Kyurem's a good Pokemon that severely punishes teams balance/BO teams reliant on Clefable, but overall it's just outdone by several other wallbreakers, and I think B- reflects its position in the metagame nicely. Not set in stone though.

 

[MC Squared]

For Araquanid, is the Bug-type a good reason to unrank it??

 

[Morsel]

For Araquanid, is the Bug-type a good reason to unrank it??

As mentioned in the previous post by Pearl (which I recommend reading in full before posting), other water type breakers outclass it. Crawdaunt and Primarina in particular both have the ability to smash past water resists due to their more beneficial secondary typings (dark and fairy are much stronger offensively than bug), meaning that they don't solely have to rely on water STAB. Not to mention the fact that Araquanid doesn't offer the priority of crawdaunt nor the defensive utility of Prjmarina, and the speed tier of Keldeo. For these reasons, it's previously assumed niche as a breaker is completely outclassed, thus meaning that it has no place in the meta and should be unranked.

 

[NewfieDude]

Hey, I'm sort of new to competitive side to Pokemon, and I'm not very knowledgeable about the tier, but I would like to make a suggestion.

Is Darkinium/Dragonium Z Hydreigon a thing? I've been using it on my Hydreigon for a while now, and it seems to nap a nice few KO's, even with a Timid nature.

252 SpA Hydreigon Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 368-434 (91 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Hydreigon Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Gliscor: 358-423 (101.1 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(Keep in mind this is full defensive Gliscor, Special Defensive sets get KO'd by BHE + Dark Pulse, same as Devastating Drake)

252 SpA Hydreigon Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Blastoise-Mega: 274-324 (79.4 - 93.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Hydreigon Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 415-489 (125.3 - 147.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Hydreigon Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Krookodile: 277-327 (83.6 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Hydreigon Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowbro: 422-500 (107.1 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Hydreigon Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 554-654 (212.2 - 250.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

It also serves as a sort of double nuke, BHE something then Draco it, I don't see many Mons other then Blissey or bulky assault vest Pokemon such as Conkeldurr surviving that (other then resists obviously)

I realize that it isn't the most viable set, but it should be worth considering.

 

[guan123]

With the large number of fairy types in UU (Clefable being one of the most common mons, followed by Primarina and Togekiss as good fairy types), Darkinium and Dragonium Z can be absorbed by them. However, Steelium Z (Flash Cannon) might work as a lure for those. Overall, I think Hydreigon should go to A rank, but Drag/Dark Z is not the reason why. The reason why is Hydreigon's ability to threaten a large number of the tier and often muscle past its usual checks.

 

[NewfieDude]

With the large number of fairy types in UU (Clefable being one of the most common mons, followed by Primarina and Togekiss as good fairy types), Darkinium and Dragonium Z can be absorbed by them. However, Steelium Z (Flash Cannon) might work as a lure for those. Overall, I think Hydreigon should go to A rank, but Drag/Dark Z is not the reason why. The reason why is Hydreigon's ability to threaten a large number of the tier and often muscle past its usual checks.

Haha ok thanks, I just wanted to know if it was a viable set.

But speaking of Z-moves, what are the most common ones being run on mons now? I know krok likes to run Tectonic Rage, but that's all I've heard.

 

[guan123]

Haha ok thanks, I just wanted to know if it was a viable set.

But speaking of Z-moves, what are the most common ones being run on mons now? I know krok likes to run Tectonic Rage, but that's all I've heard.

Bloom Doom (Solar Beam) Volcanion (deals with water types), Bloom Doom Fire types in general, Corkscrew Crash (Iron Tail) Haxorus (at +1 deals with most Fairy types), Normalium Z Keldeo (2 use normal type nuke), and more. As a rule, z-moves are used as 1. Superpowered moves to muscle past a Pokemon's checks, 2. Ways to nab an OHKO that wouldn't be possible otherwise, or 3. Z-status moves with useful effects. SM UU Creative and Underrated Sets is a good place to find other z-move users.

 

[NewfieDude]

Bloom Doom (Solar Beam) Heatran (deals with water types), Bloom Doom Fire types in general, Corkscrew Crash (Iron Tail) Haxorus (at +1 deals with most Fairy types), Normalium Z Keldeo (2 use normal type nuke), and more. As a rule, z-moves are used as 1. Superpowered moves to muscle past a Pokemon's checks, 2. Ways to nab an OHKO that wouldn't be possible otherwise, or 3. Z-status moves with useful effects. SM UU Creative and Underrated Sets is a good place to find other z-move users.

Ok thank you.

 

[Prisma]

Hi, I'm just wondering why Talonflame is B- I don't really see much hope for Talonflame ever since the Gale Wings ability was nerfed. If you can show me a viable Talonflame set then please let me know :)

 

[Freeroamer]

Talonflame @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Hi! Your question was probably better suited to the SQSA thread here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-uu-simple-questions-thread.3591788/ but I'll answer it anyway. Talonflame is still a threat as while it may no longer have consistent priority to back it up, it's still blazingly quick especially for UU, so can definitely still run offensive sets. It also makes a great Z move user, as because it's flying type moves priority is determined by it's ability and not the move itself, Z-Brave Bird has priority assuming Talonflame is at full health so it can either be used as a nuke if you manage to get to +2 on a forced switch, or as a powerful revenge killing tool otherwise. As the Z move doesn't cause recoil, if you were at full your next Brave Bird will also have priority. Talon definitely isn't the most splashable mon, mandating hazard removal in order to keep it healthy as well as having a lot of natural defensive checks, but it's definitely worth a place on these rankings and B- is fair. I think there's hope for bulkier sets but I think these actually in a way got hit harder, as the amount of speed they have to run to outspeed certain threats due to the loss of consistent Flying priority really starts to show that Talonflame's bulk really is kinda poor when not maxed out. Welcome to Smogon.

 

[Rennyjesus]

Hi, I'm just wondering why Talonflame is B- I don't really see much hope for Talonflame ever since the Gale Wings ability was nerfed. If you can show me a viable Talonflame set then please let me know :)

As long as you keep hazards out of the field, it can shot two priority Flying nukes, which is basically one of the best attacking types in this meta. +2 Supersonic Strike does even has a slight chance to OHKO Mega Aero... and Steel types that usually switches on that are bopped by Flare Blitz... I haven't used it that much, but I like it to prevent Rocks (with Taunt) and punch holes early game... of course I'm pretty bad at playing UU, but I guess you could ask a few other people or just try it yourself!

See ya!

 

[NewfieDude]

I honestly think everyone over reacted to the Gale Wings nerf, sure Talonflame can't priority Brave Bird things into the ground anymore, but it does still have other merits to it, I'm pretty sure it's the only Brave Bird user to have a reliable way to get pass steels (Staraptor has Close Combat, but has been banned from UU for a while now) and it has a really nice speed tier, allowing it to out speed mons such as Alakazam, Keldeo, Gengar etc, plus priority Subsonic Sky Strike is always deadly.

I actually wouldn't mind if Talonflame rose to B.