Resource SM ZU Viability Rankings (VR Changes #375)

[5gen]

Got some new noms before I have to lock the slate.

to A-
Muk has been on the decline imo with the meta trending towards physically based threats and the popularity of physical walls such as Golem and Mawile to deal with said threats. Moreover, Exeggutor dropping puts a heavy strain on Muk (and the rise of Bronzor) and other popular things like Mareanie give Muk a difficult time. Not good enough for A anymore imo.

to A
I've nommed this before to rise and I still stick by it. Silvally-Dragon is incredibly splashable for offense and bulky offense alike thanks to its defensive utility and offensive capabilities. Its ability to check threats such as Swanna, Combusken, and Rapidash as well as pressure opposing teams, especially those with phys def Fairy-types like Mawile, Shiinotic, and Granbull thanks to Flamethrower, really makes it an A rank Pokemon for me. However, it does have its flaws such as being easily worn down and easy to switch into with dedicated specially bulky Pokemon. In addition, even though Silvally-Dragon does not glue teams like Silvally-Fighting does, I believe that its offensive utility makes up for its ineffectiveness as a Defogger.

to B-
Meta pressures Oricorio-F incredibly well to the point where it's made Oricorio-F inconsistent and a liability in many games. Even though Specs is incredible at breaking, it is considerably prediction reliant and easy to force out. Popularity of Mareanie, Golem, Swanna, Scarf Evire, and so on just make it mediocre. Moreover, while Taunt Roost is a nice breaker (and its best set imo), stall and balance naturally deal with it with those aforementioned Pokemon as well as stuff like AV Komala, Floatzel, and Silvally-Dragon.

to B+
Sandslash is considered a ladder staple and to be honest it has been a staple in my builds recently. Sandslash provides incredible utility with its pure Ground typing, bulk, Lefties, and access to Spin and Knock. Having a Pokemon that beats the most popular rockers and can check threats like Choice Scarf Electivire, Mareanie, Pawniard, etc is incredible at the moment. Even though recent meta additions in Exeggutor, Poliwrath, and Silvally-Ghost and top mons like Shiftry and Swanna pressure it heavily, Sandslash is so easy to build with and create defensive backbones that it allows for these threats to be covered. Furthermore, Toxic cripples each of these Pokemon (bar Rest Poliwrath and Rain Dance Swanna) and Knock Off is good utility so it's not like Sandslash is giving free switch-ins.

to B-
Lack of Abomasnow is so good for Golduck as a rain sweeper. Golduck is what makes rain so threatening and a rise should reflect its place in the metagame.

to UR
Honestly I don't agree with Lumineon being ranked at all. While there is an argument to rank Lumineon based on using up a Silv slot and wanting a Defogger that can check Water-types/rain sweepers, Lumineon is simply so bad because of its limited move pool and moderate bulk that it is not even worth using. Furthermore, a lot of the time the Silvally forme is the Defogger so that eliminates the need for Lumineon. Only time I see Lumineon is on low ladder so I think that reflects its place in the tier.

 

[czim]

Got some new noms before I have to lock the slate.

to A-
Muk has been on the decline imo with the meta trending towards physically based threats and the popularity of physical walls such as Golem and Mawile to deal with said threats. Moreover, Exeggutor dropping puts a heavy strain on Muk (and the rise of Bronzor) and other popular things like Mareanie give Muk a difficult time. Not good enough for A anymore imo.

to A
I've nommed this before to rise and I still stick by it. Silvally-Dragon is incredibly splashable for offense and bulky offense alike thanks to its defensive utility and offensive capabilities. Its ability to check threats such as Swanna, Combusken, and Rapidash as well as pressure opposing teams, especially those with phys def Fairy-types like Mawile, Shiinotic, and Granbull thanks to Flamethrower, really makes it an A rank Pokemon for me. However, it does have its flaws such as being easily worn down and easy to switch into with dedicated specially bulky Pokemon. In addition, even though Silvally-Dragon does not glue teams like Silvally-Fighting does, I believe that its offensive utility makes up for its ineffectiveness as a Defogger.

to B-
Meta pressures Oricorio-F incredibly well to the point where it's made Oricorio-F inconsistent and a liability in many games. Even though Specs is incredible at breaking, it is considerably prediction reliant and easy to force out. Popularity of Mareanie, Golem, Swanna, Scarf Evire, and so on just make it mediocre. Moreover, while Taunt Roost is a nice breaker (and its best set imo), stall and balance naturally deal with it with those aforementioned Pokemon as well as stuff like AV Komala, Floatzel, and Silvally-Dragon.

to B+
Sandslash is considered a ladder staple and to be honest it has been a staple in my builds recently. Sandslash provides incredible utility with its pure Ground typing, bulk, Lefties, and access to Spin and Knock. Having a Pokemon that beats the most popular rockers and can check threats like Choice Scarf Electivire, Mareanie, Pawniard, etc is incredible at the moment. Even though recent meta additions in Exeggutor, Poliwrath, and Silvally-Ghost and top mons like Shiftry and Swanna pressure it heavily, Sandslash is so easy to build with and create defensive backbones that it allows for these threats to be covered. Furthermore, Toxic cripples each of these Pokemon (bar Rest Poliwrath and Rain Dance Swanna) and Knock Off is good utility so it's not like Sandslash is giving free switch-ins.

to B-
Lack of Abomasnow is so good for Golduck as a rain sweeper. Golduck is what makes rain so threatening and a rise should reflect its place in the metagame.

to UR
Honestly I don't agree with Lumineon being ranked at all. While there is an argument to rank Lumineon based on using up a Silv slot and wanting a Defogger that can check Water-types/rain sweepers, Lumineon is simply so bad because of its limited move pool and moderate bulk that it is not even worth using. Furthermore, a lot of the time the Silvally forme is the Defogger so that eliminates the need for Lumineon. Only time I see Lumineon is on low ladder so I think that reflects its place in the tier.

Im just gonna address the lumineon nom which imo makes no sense, although i agree with the rest of your post overall. If theres a time to not unrank lumineon its rn due to the following reasons.

Lets check 3 recent meta changes we just got
1- aboma leaves the tier
2- poliwrath drops
3- silv ghost drops

1 and 2 obviously are making rain better which lumineon is very useful against for its ability to stall rain turns out like no other defogger in the tier, due to its ability. Sure it cant really touch phys def poliwrath but thats not really what lumineon is used for anyway
3 just refutes your sillvally idea that its usually the defogger, since silv ghosts best set is sd sweeper and other forms like normal and fighting have other good set options that offensive teams would like to run, which justify lumineon or other defoggers such as shiftry or swanna. Also the fact that silvally is better isnt really important bc it has always been better and lumineon was ranked for being an alternative to silv water that checked rain and freed the silv slot

#freelumineon

 

[Mintly]

B -> B+ or maybe even A-.
These recent drops were a blessing for Shiinotic. it eats Poliwrath's stabs for breakfast, only fearing a left-field move like Poison Jab, while Exeggutor cant but it to sleep or sap it with seeds, the only things Exeggutor can hit Shiinotic with are Specs attacks. It handles the top tier threats like Electivire and Shiftry with relative ease, and can also put anything that could threaten it to sleep, or use Sap Sipper to be a defensive wall. This cute boy needs to rise.

UU -> Somewhere Higher
Currently looking through the VR list, I found Togetic at the bottom, in Usually Useless. Why? Togetic not only has good bulk, it also has a good typing for the current metagame as well as reliable recovery. Even if it's not as good as a Shiftry check as Vullaby, it doesnt deserve to be down in UU. I think it's skills should place it somewhere in the C ranks.

 

[Celever]

With the prior discussion surrounding changing A+ up (I agree with Combusken rise and Pinsir drop, 50/50 on Golem it's somewhat of a middleground between A+ and S) I'd like to throw 2 more nominations into the ring. They possibly concern a wider discussion around ZU as to the viability of balance and bulky offense builds compared with straight and hyper offense (the latter seemingly considered overall more viable), but it doesn't seem quite right to me that we have no utility mons higher than A-Rank in a tier where I feel all archetypes are fairly equally viable. So:

A --> A+
Rotom-Fan's spike in usage last month are not a reason for it to rise, but are indicative of the metagame shifts that make it so important to the meta right now. Rapidash on the other hand has been on a constant upward trend over the last few months which I don't believe is over yet. I'm nominating them together because they play fairly similar roles, though obviously with some important distinction. The main factor in these 2 mons' viability is the overly physical meta we've got here. That makes a fast Will-o-Wisp utterly invaluable, and both Fantom and Rapidash wield the move well -- just as viably, I would argue, as Gourgeist-XL, who is already A+ in large part thanks to spreading burn around (combined with its massive bulk).

From there though, the roles diverge a little. Rapidash has reliable recovery and extremely high offensive pressure, with a notoriously powerful Flare Blitz that every team in the tier needs a devout answer to. Metagame trends have been kind to it, as teams are over-preparing for Shiftry by devoting their physical bulk to a Pokémon Rapidash easily beats such as Mawile or Shiinotic, and the descent of Altaria in favour of Mareanie as teams' Busken counter is beneficial as Rapidash barely misses the 2HKO on it (though Adamant sets have now begun to appear in order to get the 2HKO with rocks) meaning Rapidash can seize the 2HKO in the lategame.

One of Rapidash's main draws, however, is its versatility and inherent splashability that comes with it. The standard Will-o / Morning Sun / Flare Blitz set has a customisable coverage move in Wild Charge, High Horsepower or even Megahorn that allows Rapidash to fit on a wide variety of teams, as well as foregoing Will-o for 2 of those moves on more offensive teams. It also is easily able to run Z-Crystals on any of its moves, whether for a nuke from Z-Flare Blitz or to choose which check or counter to be able to take out, most notably Groundinium-Z allowing it to KO Mareanie or Golem after chip damage. Even though its bulk is by no means amazing, it heals on the switches it forces, which has also opened up room for it to run a Substitute set to make use of its power and speed to turn checks into targets late into the game.

Overall, the strain that Rapidash places on teambuilding is I believe greater than the other Pokémon in A rank right now (besides Combusken who's already been nominated to and certainly should rise), which I think places it in A+ rank.

Fantom on the other hand is moreso a conversation of what the viability rankings represent. I think often ranking philosophy when it comes to A+ or S-rank falls into Pokémon that are most necessary to account for when teambuilding, and Rotom-Fan doesn't possess the offensive or defensive prowess to restrict teambuilding extensively. However, in terms of what it can do for a team in terms of support and opening opportunities for stronger attackers it's unrivaled. With the choice between utility moves like Will-o-Wisp, Defog, Trick, Pain Split and Volt Switch, Rotom-Fan too finds itself as one of the most splashable Pokémon in the tier. Its defensive typing is excellent given the relative scarceness of Rock- and Ice-Type attacks in the meta but abundance of Grass-, Fighting- and Flying-Type (Flying-Type mainly just due to Swanna and Rotom-Fan itself, but Swanna is also comfortably #1 and so is always relevant) which lends itself bulk beyond what it should have on paper. Naturally Golem being everywhere and a weakness to Stealth Rock hurts it, but every team needs an answer to Golem anyway, and most pack hazard removal in some respect even if it's Fantom itself.

Metagame trends have been equally kind to Rotom-Fan. Losing Aboma removes a significant annoyance to Rotom-Fan in Ice Shard, and neither Exeggutor nor Poliwrath appreciate Air Slash. The overall trend toward more offensive, and the physically-dominated nature of ZU offense, makes Rotom-Fan's burns more valuable than ever, and the frailty of the archetype means that even though Rotom-Fan is often relying on the low power Air Slash as its main attacking move, it does satisficingly in the late game to allow for Rotom-Fan to take out slower threats. It's often forgotten about how spammable Flying-Type is in the tier, but Flying-Type resists are few and far between especially on offense, where oftentimes it falls to Golem, Evire or Zebstrika, all of whom are easily worn down, or opposing Fantom itself. As a final note, the resurgence in rain is great for Rotom-Fan as it finds itself as a pretty great setter, possessing Defog, Rain Dance, and Volt Switch.

Though Rotom-Fan, unlike the other Pokémon in A+, doesn't place extensive strain on teambuilding, the utility it offers makes it a Pokémon to seriously consider when building any new team. I believe that that versatility and splashability makes it worthy of A+.
------------------------------

A- --> B+ I haven't used it enough to make a full-length post on it, but is Mr. Mime still considered A-? Psychic- and Fairy-Type are both amazing in this tier, but Mr. Mime's 40/65 physical defense seems extraordinarily impractical given how physical everything has become, and its need to run a scarf to not be dunked on by faster physical threats means it generally seems like an inferior Kadabra. The stronger Dazzling Gleam is nice and keeps it in B+, but Kadabra's speed, Magic Guard, stronger Psychic, and move freedom by not running a choice item appears to me to make it much more splashable and generally viable than Mr. Mime, so I don't understand why they're in the same rank as each other.

 

[Rav3]

With the prior discussion surrounding changing A+ up (I agree with Combusken rise and Pinsir drop, 50/50 on Golem it's somewhat of a middleground between A+ and S) I'd like to throw 2 more nominations into the ring. They possibly concern a wider discussion around ZU as to the viability of balance and bulky offense builds compared with straight and hyper offense (the latter seemingly considered overall more viable), but it doesn't seem quite right to me that we have no utility mons higher than A-Rank in a tier where I feel all archetypes are fairly equally viable. So:

A --> A+
Rotom-Fan's spike in usage last month are not a reason for it to rise, but are indicative of the metagame shifts that make it so important to the meta right now. Rapidash on the other hand has been on a constant upward trend over the last few months which I don't believe is over yet. I'm nominating them together because they play fairly similar roles, though obviously with some important distinction. The main factor in these 2 mons' viability is the overly physical meta we've got here. That makes a fast Will-o-Wisp utterly invaluable, and both Fantom and Rapidash wield the move well -- just as viably, I would argue, as Gourgeist-XL, who is already A+ in large part thanks to spreading burn around (combined with its massive bulk).

From there though, the roles diverge a little. Rapidash has reliable recovery and extremely high offensive pressure, with a notoriously powerful Flare Blitz that every team in the tier needs a devout answer to. Metagame trends have been kind to it, as teams are over-preparing for Shiftry by devoting their physical bulk to a Pokémon Rapidash easily beats such as Mawile or Shiinotic, and the descent of Altaria in favour of Mareanie as teams' Busken counter is beneficial as Rapidash barely misses the 2HKO on it (though Adamant sets have now begun to appear in order to get the 2HKO with rocks) meaning Rapidash can seize the 2HKO in the lategame.

One of Rapidash's main draws, however, is its versatility and inherent splashability that comes with it. The standard Will-o / Morning Sun / Flare Blitz set has a customisable coverage move in Wild Charge, High Horsepower or even Megahorn that allows Rapidash to fit on a wide variety of teams, as well as foregoing Will-o for 2 of those moves on more offensive teams. It also is easily able to run Z-Crystals on any of its moves, whether for a nuke from Z-Flare Blitz or to choose which check or counter to be able to take out, most notably Groundinium-Z allowing it to KO Mareanie or Golem after chip damage. Even though its bulk is by no means amazing, it heals on the switches it forces, which has also opened up room for it to run a Substitute set to make use of its power and speed to turn checks into targets late into the game.

Overall, the strain that Rapidash places on teambuilding is I believe greater than the other Pokémon in A rank right now (besides Combusken who's already been nominated to and certainly should rise), which I think places it in A+ rank.

Fantom on the other hand is moreso a conversation of what the viability rankings represent. I think often ranking philosophy when it comes to A+ or S-rank falls into Pokémon that are most necessary to account for when teambuilding, and Rotom-Fan doesn't possess the offensive or defensive prowess to restrict teambuilding extensively. However, in terms of what it can do for a team in terms of support and opening opportunities for stronger attackers it's unrivaled. With the choice between utility moves like Will-o-Wisp, Defog, Trick, Pain Split and Volt Switch, Rotom-Fan too finds itself as one of the most splashable Pokémon in the tier. Its defensive typing is excellent given the relative scarceness of Rock- and Ice-Type attacks in the meta but abundance of Grass-, Fighting- and Flying-Type (Flying-Type mainly just due to Swanna and Rotom-Fan itself, but Swanna is also comfortably #1 and so is always relevant) which lends itself bulk beyond what it should have on paper. Naturally Golem being everywhere and a weakness to Stealth Rock hurts it, but every team needs an answer to Golem anyway, and most pack hazard removal in some respect even if it's Fantom itself.

Metagame trends have been equally kind to Rotom-Fan. Losing Aboma removes a significant annoyance to Rotom-Fan in Ice Shard, and neither Exeggutor nor Poliwrath appreciate Air Slash. The overall trend toward more offensive, and the physically-dominated nature of ZU offense, makes Rotom-Fan's burns more valuable than ever, and the frailty of the archetype means that even though Rotom-Fan is often relying on the low power Air Slash as its main attacking move, it does satisficingly in the late game to allow for Rotom-Fan to take out slower threats. It's often forgotten about how spammable Flying-Type is in the tier, but Flying-Type resists are few and far between especially on offense, where oftentimes it falls to Golem, Evire or Zebstrika, all of whom are easily worn down, or opposing Fantom itself. As a final note, the resurgence in rain is great for Rotom-Fan as it finds itself as a pretty great setter, possessing Defog, Rain Dance, and Volt Switch.

Though Rotom-Fan, unlike the other Pokémon in A+, doesn't place extensive strain on teambuilding, the utility it offers makes it a Pokémon to seriously consider when building any new team. I believe that that versatility and splashability makes it worthy of A+.
------------------------------

A- --> B+ I haven't used it enough to make a full-length post on it, but is Mr. Mime still considered A-? Psychic- and Fairy-Type are both amazing in this tier, but Mr. Mime's 40/65 physical defense seems extraordinarily impractical given how physical everything has become, and its need to run a scarf to not be dunked on by faster physical threats means it generally seems like an inferior Kadabra. The stronger Dazzling Gleam is nice and keeps it in B+, but Kadabra's speed, Magic Guard, stronger Psychic, and move freedom by not running a choice item appears to me to make it much more splashable and generally viable than Mr. Mime, so I don't understand why they're in the same rank as each other.

Great post, thoroughly agree on a lot of points made on Rapidash and Fan.

A few extra points to consider on the Fan: the variation in sets it can run, Scarf, Lefties/Protect (great for scouting Evire), Pinch berry, Z Move are all equally viable; but more importantly is that fan can use Will-O-Wisp to cripple its two most common switch ins, Golem and Evire. This alone makes the opposition play a lot of 50/50s as to either letting you volt switch and grab momentum, Or risk a burn which would cripple their speed control or phys wall.

 

[PasshoPie]

Honestly, i think Lumineon should be ranked, but absolutely not because Lumineon can stall rain and can defog, because it's irrelevant. It's a viability ranking and Sylvally-water it's just a best water with defog and U-turn.
But no one said the main reason to use Lumineon, it's just a good defogger in specific team, especially in HO because of Tailwind.

I played it a bit, because it was a funny and good mon in PU 6G, and honestly, it's a correct mon thanks to Tailwind which can be useful with some stallbreaker like Exeggutor, Rampardos, Golem etc.
Absolutely not the best defogger, but it stayed a good support thanks to its type, Defog, U-Turn, Tailwind and its decent bulk.

Usually Useless is a good place for Lumineon

 

[Spacial]

B+ --> A-

Raichu has a great match up against many of ZU's answers to special attackers, especially Lickilicky, and with the exceptions of Purugly, Floatzel, and Ninjask, it can outspeed many non-Scarfed offensive threats and hit them hard with a Nasty Plot boosted Thunderbolt. This gives Raichu a decent match up against both offensive and defensive teams alike, although it can have some difficulty setting up against the former.

Some calculations for reference:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 395-465 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Dusclops: 157-187 (55.2 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Focus Blast vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kecleon: 302-356 (102.3 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk: 214-253 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Poor defensive stats and competition from Electivire as an offensive electric type doesn't do Raichu any favors, but with proper play, Raichu can be an effective special attacker, and a solid addition to any team in need of a reliable late-game sweeper or an early-game hole puncher.

 

[5gen]

Hello all, the long overdue VR changes are here. There was quite a bit to vote on and these changes are pretty significant. Voting slate for reference

Exeggutor ranked at A
Poliwrath ranked at A-
Silvally-Ghost ranked at A-

Combusken A to A+
Dusclops B to B+
Shiinotic B to B+
Purugly B- to B
Golduck C+ to B-
Hippopotas UR to C-
Zweilous UR to UU
Whirlipede UR to UU

Gourgeist-XL A+ to A
Floatzel A to A-
Kecleon A to A-
Altaria A- to B+
Machoke A- to B+
Carbink B to B- (tied for B- and C+, but since Dusknoir is B-, Carbink should never be below it since it's a mandatory TR lead)
Oricorio-F B to B-
Drifblim B- to C+
Beartic B- to C
Wishiwashi B- to C+
Furfrou C+ to C
Leavanny C+ to C
Politoed C to UU
Ampharos C- to UU
Silvally-Fire C to UU
Gourgeist UU to UR
Gumshoos UU to UR
Lopunny UU to UR
Lumineon UU to UR
Seviper UU to UR

Exeggutor quickly cements itself as a prominent threat in ZU thanks to its monstrous power and offensive capabilities. Exeggutor's multitude of sets can make it extremely difficult to check defensively and somewhat annoying to deal with offensively. Aside from its raw power, Exeggutor has good utility in Sub+Leech Seed+Harvest as well as Sleep Powder and Trick Room. That being said, Exeggutor's various weaknesses and low Speed make it easy to check offensively and limits its ability to switch in, which limits it to A rank.

Poliwrath is an incredible bulky Water-type for what it's worth. While Poliwrath is weak to top threats such as Swanna, Shiftry, and Electivire and has trouble with bulkier Pokemon such as Mareanie and Shiinotic, its bulk, typing, and Water Absorb is very handy, allowing Poliwrath to check Pokemon such as Floatzel, Pinsir, and Golem. Poliwrath provides great role compression for teams and is one of those Pokemon that can fit to almost any team. Be it phazing, chipping away at Pokemon with Toxic Protect or Sub Toxic, or giving general offensive support with AOA, Poliwrath performs its roles consistently. However, the fact that it loses to the aforementioned top Pokemon means Poliwrath is limited to A-.

Silvally-Ghost makes a return to ZU after a brief period in PU and it finds itself slightly worse than before. The support and offensive capability Silvally-Ghost brings is above-average, but the metagame now naturally pressures it more so than before with Pokemon such as Shiftry, Swanna, and Shiinotic. In addition, Silvally types such as Fighting, Dragon, Water, Ground, and Dark are all effective and provide distinct support, which Silvally-Ghost competes with. By the same token, Silvally-Ghost provides valuable support, checking Normal-types, being a Defogger that can threaten rockers (especially Bronzor), and acting as a spinblocker for Spikes stack teams. Swords Dance is also a pretty decent breaker as Ghost-type STAB is rare in this tier.

Rises

A to A+
Combusken takes advantage of top threats such as Shiftry and Komala. Swords Dance is such a consistent set even with Pokemon such as Mareanie, phys def Poliwrath, and Swanna being as popular as they are. In addition, Combusken's special set threatens many physically defensive Pokemon and specially frail Pokemon such as Mawile, Golem, and Sandslash. Also, Combusken is incredibly easy to support and forms potent offensive cores with the likes of Exeggutor, Shiftry, Swanna, and so on, making it a fairly splashable offensive threat.

B to B+
Put simply, Dusclops fits better among B+. Dusclops's ability to compress a lot of defensive utility is incredibly appealing in an offensive metagame such as this, which is fantastic for balance and bulkier builds in general. Moreover, Dusclops is able to wall a significant portion of the tier and pairs extremely well with Knock Off switch-ins such as Shiinotic, Mawile, and Silvally-Fighting. However, Dusclops is somewhat passive and can be overwhelmed by powerful offensive threats such as Shiftry, CB Komala, and CB Golem.

B to B+
Shiinotic is able to counter standard Shiftry sets and checks other attacker such as Golem, Pinsir, and Poliwrath relatively well, which gives it invaluable defensive support. Strength Sap+Spore is fantastic as well. Could rise to A- if meta trends keep favoring it, but as it stands, Shiinotic can be too passive and easy to play around with Pokemon such as Bouffalant, Exeggutor, and the abundance of Fire- and Flying-types (also hates status).

B- to B
Purugly provides great offensive support and performs better against the more offensive and frail teams seen in today's metagame. Defiant gives Purugy a solid niche as Defog deterrent as well. On the other hand, Purugly can be very easy to switch into and relies heavily on its teammates and entry hazards (chip in general) to perform effectively.

C+ to B-
Rain is that much better without Abomasnow in the tier. Golduck under rain is something else.

UR to C-
Hippopotas has a niche on stall teams thanks to its typing, bulk, and utility in SR+Slack Off+Whirlwind (if phazing is needed). Really helps stall teams prep for Volt Switch and attackers like Golem.

UR to UU
Exeggutor check. Also happens to check other attackers such as Beheeyem, Rapidash, Silvally-Ghost, etc.

UR to UU
Spikes+TSpikes, Speed Boost, and an ability to wear down entry hazards with Toxic+Protect. Speed Boost also means that Whirlipede is able to reliably keep entry hazards set.

Drops

-XL A+ to A
Gourgeist-XL has dipped down in effectiveness as Shiftry and Swanna have dominated the metagame. Moreover, increased competition in Shiinotic and threats such as Exeggutor, Silvally-Ghost, Ice Beam Silvally-Fighting/Ground/Dark pressure Gourgeist-XL incredibly well.

Floatzel A to A-
Poliwrath dropping and Mareanie, Swanna, Shiftry, and Choice Scarf Electivire being as popular as they are means Floatzel has a much harder time in the current metagame.

A to A-
Kecleon drops to A- because of the stiff competition it faces from Komala as well as being heavily pressured by physical threats. Also got another counter in defensive Poliwrath.

A- to B+
Altaria is arguably one of the more less consistent Defoggers in the tier and it leaves a lot to be desired defensively. While Altaria is fairly bulky and has a decent defensive typing, it fails to check Pokemon such as Shiftry, Pinsir, and Water-types in general. In addition, more and more Silvally type runs Ice Beam, which puts even more pressure on Altaria. Still provides good support on the right build, hence B+.

A- to B+
Competition from Poliwrath and the fact that Exeggutor and Silvally-Ghost dropping give Machoke some more difficulties performing its role as a defensive blanket check.

B to B-
Trick Room as a whole has become noticeably less effective as Pokemon such as Shiinotic, Protect Golem, Protect Poliwrath/defensive Poliwrath, and so on being able to stall out TR attackers. Furthermore, Trick Room has been less consistent in general as both its setters and attackers are incredibly pressured by the amount of threats in the metagame. Setting up TR is arguably more difficult than ever.

B to B-
Same reasoning used in the original nom.

B- to C+
Too inconsistent to be B- because of its limited switch-in opportunities and how easily it is pressured by Electivire, Swanna, Golem, Shiftry, and so on.

B- to C
Abomasnow rose and Beartic is outclassed on rain teams by Armaldo.

B- to C+
Trick Room as a whole has fallen off slightly and so Wishiwashi has also fallen off. Moreover, the popularity of Pokemon such as Mareanie, Poliwrath, and Shiinotic makes it more difficult for Wishiwashi to perform as it once could.

C+ to C
Furfrou's stall set has fallen out of favor as of late because of how passive the set is. Moreover, Poliwrath, Silvally-Ghost, and Choice Specs Exeggutor put even more pressure on the set. That being set, offensive sets may perform at a C+ level in the current metagame, so we'll have to keep an eye out on Furfrou.

C+ to C
While Leavanny is an offensive Sticky Web setter that is able to pressure opposing leads and threaten certain Pokemon, it is not as consistent as Shuckle. Moreover, Leavanny is weak to a lot and its Speed leaves something to be desired, being outsped by common Defoggers such as Silvally-Dragon and Swanna.

Rest of the reasonings can be found in this thread or in the voting slate.

Politoed C to UU
Ampharos C- to UU
Silvally-Fire C to UU
Gourgeist UU to UR
Gumshoos UU to UR
Lopunny UU to UR
Lumineon UU to UR
Seviper UU to UR

 

[a fruitshop owner]

B -> B+

After making several teams with this pokemon and every time it being able to come through I think it should be ranked higher. Marowack, I believe, is effective and better outside of standard trick room teams. There are several reasons why it works. The first thing I would like to cover is the lead match up potential. Marowack threatens primary stealth rock setters in the tier with STAB Bonemerang which can break through golem's sturdy or any sash pokemon and it also covers Mawile and Metang. Another common stealth rock lead Bronzor does not take lightly to knock off. Outside of providing a threatening lead match up marowack provides support to the team. 3 attacks stealth rock has become one of my favorite sets. Being a ground type, Marowack applies pressure on the common scarf evire set. Overall really like Marowack in the current meta I think it does a great job at forcing you opponent to have to play around it and play differently from their normal lead matchups and stuff.

 

[DirtyPenguin]

(C+ -> B-/B)

Ditto does an incredibly good job at stopping threatening set-up sweepers like Combusken, SD/NP Shiftry, and Pinsir in their tracks and is actually a staple on stall and balance teams, acting as a good stallbreaker, but you could also fit this thing on more offensive teams as a revenge killer if you can't fit Scarf Evire. While it's not good of a scarfer as Evire, it can certainly hold it's own. You can also use Iapapa Berry for longevity, not worrying about locking yourself into one move, and being able to fit another scarfer on your team. It actually works. (credits to BP for that set) Anyway, besides being a good revenge killer, it can scout movesets, (which is pretty important for versatile mons like Shiftry) can wall things like non HP Fire Eggy, and can also scare set up sweepers in Team Preview, and can do good on certain playstyles if used well.

Replays: (keep in mind these replays are low ladder, but they showcase what Ditto can do, I promise)
Replay 1: So BP just gave me his Iapapa Ditto team, I decided to ladder with it, but then I happen to run into him, and he's using the same team lmao. But anyway Ditto was able to transform into Z-Rain Dance Swanna and KO it along with Golem.
Replay 2: In this replay, Ditto was able to clean late game by transforming into Coil Boosted Arbok and proceeds to sweep from there.
Replay 3: Ditto was able to put in work late game, transforming into Pinsir to take advantage of Moxie, getting a boost and cleaning the opposing team in the process.
Replay 4: Ditto put in a lot of work this game, transforming into rain boosted Golduck, and taking advantage of Swift Swim. It was able to kill 2 mons and do heavy damage to the opposing Golduck before dying.

(B -> C+)

Metang rly sucks at the moment. Despite offensive presence compared to Bronzor, it's still a better rocker because of better defensive stats, and having a ground immunity unlike Metang. And that offensive presence is better taken by Golem who is WAY stronger. It's certainly not winning any lead matchups (besides Carbink) either. The only things you REALLY have over Zor is being less passive, being stronger, (not rly saying much cause like I said Golem is better at that role) not being a total momentum drain, and that's about it. You could hit dark types on the switch but that's only valuable if you're REALLY Shiftry weak tbh. You could run T-Punch for Swanna but it's just 4MSS from there. In conclusion, Metang sucks.

thanks for coming to my ted talk, these noms were written by a 12 year old.

EDIT: Lol the second replay was down for some reason. Fixed.

 

[Tsareentje]

Hello, after playing a lot of battles I noticed some changes in the meta in favour of Dark-type Pokemon. So, here are my Dark-type noms (yes with a Vullaby...)

Silvally-Dark B --> B+

So, this Pokemon is kind of a hype lately, but let's remain objective and realistic. After Exeggutor came back Silvally-Dark grew in effectiveness, not only Silvally-Dark, but Dark types in general as well. The reason is the fact that Silvally-Dark can switch into Exeggutor (might switch into a Psychic/Psyshock for free when type not revealed). When Silvally is in the battle, it gains the momentum and can choose U-Turn or Pursuit. Keep in mind that Silvally has to be careful of a Leaf Storm/ Z-Leaf Storm. Bloom Doom can OHKO or has a chance to OHKO depending on Silvally's EVs. This Silvally is also able to check Shiftry and Bronzor. The match up against Bronzor is very notable, because Silvally can Pursuit trap or it can clean Stealth Rocks with Defog for free, when used. This Pokemon is a great Knock Off absorber, which is why it is a Shiftry check and a great addition to teams. All in all, in the current meta Silvally is known as a good Pokemon with and against Exeggutor.

Vullaby C- --> C+ or C

Yes, we are talking about Vullaby. Vullaby profits from the same meta changes as Silvally-Dark does. Vullaby is currently Exeggutor's most reliable check and she doesn't even have to run Special Defense EVs. Thanks to Vullaby's ability Overcoat she is immune to Sleep Powder. Vullaby is immune to Psychic attacks as well. Once Vullaby switches into the battle (which she does reliably), Vullaby has kind of the same options as Silvally-Dark. She can choose to use Defog (if there are hazards) or Vullaby can choose to have a safe U-Turn and it wins momentum for the team. Another huge niche Vullaby has is her matchup against Shiftry. Vullaby is an option to check Shiftry, thanks to her unique typing and reliable recovery. Vullaby also offers slow pivotting and she has a great matchup against physical Pokemon, like Komala and Rapidash.

Calcs

Exeggutor
252+ SpA Exeggutor Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 107-126 (31.1 - 36.7%) -- 74.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Exeggutor Bloom Doom (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 161-189 (46.9 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

So, Vullaby heals after the Bloom Doom and the team is safe from the opposing Z-Move

Shiftry with Eviolite
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 55-65 (16 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 79-94 (23 - 27.4%) -- 69.1% chance to 4HKO

Without Eviolite
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Vullaby: 55-65 (16 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Shiftry Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Vullaby: 118-140 (34.4 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Again Vullaby is a safe switch here

 

[Dollainthewoods]

Marshtomp UR -> Something higher
In my time getting back into this tier I have been experimenting teambuilding with some unconventional pokemon. The only one that really stood out to me however, is Marshtomp with the team I used it on finding lots of success. In order to explain why someone would use Marshtomp the first thing I'd like to go over is its typing. A water/ground typing is amazing, with it only being weak to grass, which is kind of a problem with the presence of Shiftry and Eggy. However, this is offset by the Marshtomp's ability to counter mons like: scarf Electivire, golem, Muk, and Rapidash; which are some of the most used mons in this metagame. Another thing Marshtomp does well is its support, everything that usually counters Marshtomp can be whittled down by its use of the move toxic and its usage of the move stealth rocks. This helps to whittle down some of the threats Marshtomp would normally lose to; for example: Rotom-fan and specs/scarf Swanna. Now why use something like Marshtomp over something like Palpitoad, you may ask. Well the answer to that is simple, and it is that Marshtomp has superior bulk. With Palpitoad running 75/55/55 in hp and defenses, this makes it more open to being killed easily, while Marshtomp having a 70/70/70 in hp and defenses makes it a much more viable pick for its bulkiness.
Here are two replays that show Marshtomp putting in some work
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-955653012 vs Tack even though I haxed him
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-953656342 vs Tom Holland setting up rocks were important

 

[275p]

Hey guys,

So I am finally convinced that a certain Pokemon should be a bit higher on the VR. And that Pokemon is:

Raticate B- --> B

Now you may be wondering, why Raticate should rise. It is pretty simple. Having acces to both SD, Guts and Facade, is an incredible combination, so nothing can really switch safely into it. And while the speed tier may not be high enough to outspeed Swanna, it still is able to outspeed all the Vally's and Non Scarf variants of Evire, which always comes in handy. Havin also access to some coverage moves like Crunch, Stomping Tantrum and priority moves like Quick attack and Sucker Punch, makes it even more difficult for some pokemon to switch in.

Here are some calcs:

Calcs

+2 252 Atk Guts Raticate Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 229-271 (58.2 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Guts Raticate Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Silvally-Fighting: 475-559 (120.5 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Guts Raticate Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Swanna: 207-244 (71.1 - 83.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Guts Raticate Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gabite: 313-369 (92 - 108.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Guts Raticate Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Golem: 284-336 (94.3 - 111.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Guts Raticate Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Mareanie: 321-378 (105.9 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Guts Raticate Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Gourgeist-Super: 119-141 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Guts Raticate Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 238-282 (63.6 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Guts Raticate Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 372-438 (96.8 - 114%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

As you can see, it is really hard to switch into Raticate once it set up. That's why I believe it deserves at least a rise to B, as a powerful normal type wallbreaker. And although it does need some support to break through some walls like Stealth Rock, it really is a force to be renckoned with.

 

[Spacial]

Gourgiest-Small C --> C+

Gourgiest-Small has a good, albeit specialized, niche as an effective spinblocker for Hyper Offense teams. By virtue of its typing, Gourgiest-Small fares well against the 2 common Rapid Spin users in the tier, Komala and Sandslash. Spinblocking isn't all that it can do, though: with access to Will-O-Wisp and Explosion, Gourgiest can annoy anything that tries to switch in with a burn or can Explode on Defog users like Swanna to preserve your entry hazards. While it does face competition from Silvally-Ghost, who has higher offenses and access to Pivoting, Gourgiest-Small has a higher speed tier and access to priority in the form of Shadow Sneak.

 

[Sputnik]

Kind of a boring nomination here but it's one that I think deserves talking about.

Volbeat: C+ ---> B-

A metagame without Abomasnow is a metagame where Rain (and to a lesser extent, Sun) thrives. Volbeat is found on pretty much every good weather team, and for good reason. It's got all the tools it needs to support its team. Setting up weather with its Prankster antics is obvious, but its slow U-Turn and Encore allows for easy entry for the weather sweepers. Rain is especially good right now; Golduck, Swanna and Beartic were dangerous before, but Abomasnow was an incredibly tough matchup for any rain team thanks to its typing and Snow Warning. This is no longer an issue, and now Poliwrath has joined the fray of dangerous rain sweepers. Sun isn't as popular, but with Exeggutor and the old favorites such as Leafeon and Sawsbuck it can still wreak havoc if wielded correctly. Volbeat can find a place on any of these teams, which should give it a little edge up in my opinion.

 

[DirtyPenguin]

MORE NOMS!


(B -> B+)
Gabite is REALLY slept on ngl. It has key differences that make it a worthwhile pick over other rockers, mainly it's wonderful defensive typing, Rough Skin, and utility. It's a good check to so many mons like Combusken, Rapidash, and Electivire (non Ice Punch). Not only that, it can punish both U-Turn AND Volt Switch users, something the other mons in the tier can't do at all. I honestly don't know why people have nommed this thing to drop in the past. It's seriously underrated.


(C -> C+)
Another rocker that's pretty damn underrated. It has good MUs with all the other rockers (except Bronzor), acts as a pretty handy normal check and resist, offers some nice utility, and has a very useful ability in Regenerator. It also fits well on stall and balance builds and walls most special attackers and is an amazing check to Swanna. It's may be a worst Mare but rocks are better than T-Spikes.


(C -> C+)
Vibrava is defogger that is yet again, underrated. Like Gabite, it has it's same wonderful defensive typing. Not can it only check the best rocker in the tier, it's a solid check to other mons like Combusken, Electivire, physical attackers, and can straight up Defog on every rocker. Again, UNDERRATED.


(C -> D)
I find Flareon very mediocre compared to our other fire types. As a physical attacker, it's outdone by SD Combusken, who is more consistent at breaking thanks to Speed Boost and having extra STAB in Fighting. Rapidash also does it job better, thank to also having better speed, and having more coverage. It's also worth noting that it also outclasses it as a Flash Fire user as well. It's SpD Wish set is also rly bad being outclassed by Lickilicky, having a much better defensive typing and being more bulky. Hell, I'd argue that Firevally is better than Flareon. It has much better coverage options and more consistent stats. Flareon honestly does not deserve C.

And finally some other noms I agree with:
Marowak, Silvally-Dark, Marshtomp, Vullaby, and Volbeat (EDIT: Oh and also Raticate)

 

[Apagogie]

I agree with the nominations of DirtyPenguin. Now, my own nomination :

Pinsir A+ -> A-
I have already done this nomination in the past, I will do it again. Pinsir is at least a step below the other mons in A+, it is globally less viable in the current metagame than staple mons such as Electivire or Golem. Pinsir has lot of issues which are not new, it is a mon which is match up based and which relies on the support of its teammates to work decently. Every set it runs is a deadweight according to the team of your opponent, the metagame itself has solid answers against Pinsir such as golem, silvally fighting, even Mareanie and now Poliwrath. Every set it runs has big flaws, the scarf set is the slowest "fast" scarf in the metagame which means it cannot be the perfect late game sweeper as it would like to be, the Mold breaker set SD has a 4mss and the Z-me first set relies only of the solidity of your team behind to be able to sweep. To have tried Pinsirmany times, it is a mon which is difficult to build around and not at all splashable.

What I said is not something which is especially new, to be honest, it has always been the case. However, rank pinsir has always been difficult due to the fact that it is far more effective on paper than it is in theory. I want to talk about practise today. I will comment replays in official zu tournaments where Pinsir has been played. Before starting, I want to mention an important thing. Despite the fact that the list of replays could give the impression that Pinsir is a mon very played at high level, it's absolutely not the case. If I would have to do the same thing for mons such as Shiftry, Electivire, Swanna, Golem or even A mons such as Bronzor or Mareanie, it would have been totally impossible due to the big number of battles played with these staple mons. I would have had probably almost hundred battles to analyze. Obviously, usage doesn't mean viability but we can legitimately ask ourselves the question of why Pinsir is not as much played as its comrades at high level. Especially since, you will see, the people who play Pinsir are almost always the same.

About the battles, I took every replays I saw in the two most recent tournaments (seasonal and zupl), especially in the last rounds of the tournament concerning the seasonal.

Tournament replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-965762982
(ZUPL) LPY versus Jarii. Pinsir did 35% to Swanna turn 5. It killed a Golem which had 22% of life turn 16 and then was killed by rapidash turn 17. It could have swept at the end of the game but Jarii preserved his scarfer (rapidash) which was assured to sweep once vally Dragon was dead/in the range. With the work of the whole team behind, Pinsir could have been dangerous. Pinsir did a little amount of work in this battle but could have been a threat.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-968898181
(ZUPL) ShwiftyShiftry versus Sabella. Pinsir killed with its Z-move a Golem at 18% of life at turn 17 and then was sacrified some turns later. Pinsir did nothing in this game.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-962968149
(Seasonal) LPY versus Czim. Pinsir was killed by Swanna turn 17 without doing anything. Pinsir did nothing in this game.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-953638302
(Seasonal) Jmash versus Czim. Pinsir set up turn 12 with Swords Dance and, thanks to 2 bad sleep talk, killed the Poliwrath with 2 earthquake. It killed the Shiftry later in the battle (Czim didn't really have a safe switch in) and then, thanks to a good anticipation of Jmash, killed the Rapidash of Czim and sweept the rest of the team. Pinsir did an amazing amount of work in this battle.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-916636666
(Seasonal) Yovan versus LPY. Pinsir did earthquake turn 11 to Silvally Water and removed 30% of its life. It tried to revenge kill Raichu with X-scizzor but, after having removed some hp of a weaken golem, it was finally burned by rapidash. After that, it was unable to kill the leafeon at the end of the game. Pinsir did a reasonable amount of work and could have been threaten without the burn.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-950599791
(Seasonal) LPY against a fruitshop owner. Pinsir removed the eviolite of Mareanie at turn 18. It killed a weaken Shinotic turn 24 and was stalled to the death by Mareanie just after. Pinsir did a little amount of work.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-954847001
(Seasonal) Akashi against Megazard. Pinsir after a SD killed the metang with the Z-move turn 2. It removed 40% of the life of Vally Dragon turn 10. It tried to set up a Swords Dance at turn 35 but was prevented by Rotom-Fan and had to switch just after. Pinsir did a good amount of work this battle.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-954843948
(Seasonal) Akashi against Megazard battle 2. Pinsir removed 18% of the life to Vally Fighting turn 15 and wasn't switched during the rest of the battle. Pinsir did nothing in this game.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-954929885
(Seasonal) LPY against Crazy Steve. Pinsir removed 40% of the life of Fraxure turn 14 before being killed by outrage. Pinsir did almost nothing in this battle.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-955754758
(Seasonal) Tack is a Nerd against Spitfire Arcanine. Pinsir removed 36% of life of a Shiinotic turn 21 before being put asleep. Shiinotic recovered its whole life the turn after in clicking strength sap on the switch on golem. Pinsir did nothing in this battle.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-955757491
(Seasonal) Tack is a Nerd against Spitfire. Pinsir tried to earthquake Mawile on a Protect turn 10. After that, it was switched and was never shown anymore during the rest of the battle. Pinsir did nothing in this battle.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-958435349
(Seasonal) Tack is a Nerd against Czim. Pinsir died to Brave Bird of Swanna turn 20 without doing anything during the battle. Pinsir did nothing in this battle.

Certainly other replays exist but these are the one I found. I repeat myself but it's really nothing compared to electivire, swanna, shiftry, golem... And especially in ZUPL : on 30 different teams played week 1, Pinsir has not been played. It has been used only once in week 2 and at the moment where I'm writing this post, also once in week 3.

After watching these replays, I think the conclusion is pretty obvious. Pinsir is a Pokemon which is threaten when the whole team behind weakens the opponent or when you are in the right match up in doing good anticipations. Nevertheless, in the majority of battles, it is just a deadweight. It is not something new but it is something true. When you are not in a good position, Pinsir will do nothing, it wont save you and relies fully in the team behind and it is completely useless otherwise. It is shown in the battles above, Pinsir has done an amazing work in only one battle, has been globally good in one other battle, could have been threaten but finally no in 2 matchs and has been useless or almost the rest of the time. Yes, it's a small number of battles so statistically you cannot conclude anything but, once again, if players in important games don't want to bring Pinsir, there is a reason. You don't want to spam a mon which is fundamentally match up based and useless otherwise in tournament.

Also, notice how many current mons deal with it, such as Silvally-Fighting, Shiinotic, Mareanie, Golem. These mons are not played against Pinsir but against Shiftry, Combusken or just are generally good in the tier and they still manage to beat it. I don't even talk about the teambuilding aspect which is hard with Pinsir due to general flaws of lack of speed control and reliability against what it is supposed to beat.

This Pokemon is far to have the same influence than Electivire or Golem in this metagame. Pinsir is viable but not in A+. It has the same influence in the metagame than mons such as Beheyeem (and I'm very kind in saying that) and that's why it deserves to drop of two ranks to go in A-.


Special thanks to 85percent to have helped me to find replays. Thank you for the reading.

 

[Zneon]

A+ -> S

This might be really controversial, but I think Komala is potentially worthy of S rank. This is mainly due to its crazy utility and versitility. The fact that its immune to status as well as spread status, as well as the choice band set allows it to break stall, it has Wish, so it not only has recovery, but can also act as a Wish passer to heal an important mon on your team, it has access to U-turn to pivot and gain momentum for it's team, it is easily one of the best Rapid Spinners in the tier because of its fantastic coverage, with Play Rough, Wood Hammer, Acrobatics, Superpower, Sucker Punch for priority, Knock off to remove items, it can do so much for it's team and do its job fairly well, and it's one of the absolute most splashable mons in the tier because of this, while still being a potent offensive threat with Choice Band. Overall, its sheer utility, versitility, power and puts it above the A+ mons in the tier imo, and this is why I put this with Swanna and Shiftry at S.

 

[hannah_xyz]

Lumineon...

The set

Lumineon @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Storm Drain allows you to switch into Water STAB from Swanna, Poliwrath and Simipour.

Here are a few calcs

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Swanna: 328-390 (112.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Combusken: 257-304 (98.4 - 116.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Dragon: 265-312 (80 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I just wanna see my baby outside of unranked

 

[275p]

Lumineon...

The set

Lumineon @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Storm Drain allows you to switch into Water STAB from Swanna, Poliwrath and Simipour.

Here are a few calcs

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Swanna: 328-390 (112.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Combusken: 257-304 (98.4 - 116.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Dragon: 265-312 (80 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I just wanna see my baby outside of unranked

Buddy, I really get that you want Lumineon to be ranked. I was also personally not happy, when it fell to UR. But I have to say, that this set is not good. Offensive Lumineon? With a 69 SpAtk? The calc on Swanna is nothing special. Every electric attack criples Swanna hard, so the damage is not even surprising. Surf on Combusken wih eviolite? Combusken is frail anyway, even with eviolite, so this is also not a surpise. Also the damage on Silvally Dragon is not enough. Here look at the calcs.

252 SpA Silvally-Dragon Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lumineon: 292-344 (104.6 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns

Two Draco Meteors are enough to annahilate the cute fish. Even Storm Drain is not a pro, because you can't KO Dragonvallly after one boost. It is also revenge killed by a lot of faster threats like Evire, Sawsbuck, Leafeon, Raichu...Do I need to say more? Unless you show replays, where this set suceeds, ranking Lumineon will never happen. And if you really want to use it, use it as a defogger (even if it outclassed by Watervally and Swanna).

 

[Sputnik]

Lumineon...

The set

Lumineon @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Storm Drain allows you to switch into Water STAB from Swanna, Poliwrath and Simipour.

Here are a few calcs

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Swanna: 328-390 (112.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Combusken: 257-304 (98.4 - 116.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Dragon: 265-312 (80 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I just wanna see my baby outside of unranked

I still don't understand why you would use this thing over Watervally for anything. Silvwater can switch into Water STAB from these mons as well thanks to its nice bulk and typing, and it has the movepool and the bulk to make up for its lack of Storm Drain. Sure, Lumineon does slightly better against a few of these mons in very niche situations, but Silvally Water is just so effective that Lumineon is really hard to justify in a defensive role. And offensive Lumineon isn't good at all either thanks to, as 275p said, it's really middling Special Attack combined with a pretty mediocre movepool make it an overall really bad choice that shouldn't be on the VR unless Watervally rises to PU.

 

[Zneon]

Lumineon...

The set

Lumineon @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Storm Drain allows you to switch into Water STAB from Swanna, Poliwrath and Simipour.

Here are a few calcs

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Swanna: 328-390 (112.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Combusken: 257-304 (98.4 - 116.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Lumineon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Dragon: 265-312 (80 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I just wanna see my baby outside of unranked

I agree with everything Sputnik said, this thing has no niche defensively over Watervally, because Watervally does everything Lumineon does except a million times better due to its wider movepool and higher attacking stats, yes Storm Drain is useful, but how is it able to reliably threaten Waters, it has a mediocre SpAtk stat and its movepool is unable to effectively cripple Water types apart from Swanna with HP Electric. The Life Orb set you suggested, to be fair, isn't good enough to warrant this thing to be ranked. Like 275 and Sputnik pointed out, an offensive variant wouldn't work because of its bad attacking stats. This thing is completely outclassed defensively over Watervally and no offensive niche over so many Water types, making it unfortunately make it outclassed in every role, so I can't see this really getting ranked. Also, you need to save some replays showing that this set actually works in practice.

 

[Zneon]

Gonna do another Nomination
Nominating

B+ -> A-

I really like this thing, it's kinda underrated in my opinion because it has a few things going for it, first of all, Shiinotic is one of the best blanket checks to Shiftry in the tier, now I don't know how much that matters, but checking one of the most dangerous mons in the tier so well is always a plus. Secondly, ZU has literally no sleepers except for Shiinotic, and it does the job of sleeping pretty well due to its decent bulk and typing, and once it causes a mon to sleep, it can just spam Giga Drain or Moonblast on a victim, and if it is really low against a physical threat, it can use Strength Sap to literally heal itself back to either max HP or at a decent. It's defensive utility with Effect Spore as well as Strength Sap lets it do surprisingly well against physical attackers. I have a few replays of the battles I've had with Shiinotic, and hopefully these showcase what Shiinotic can do in practice.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-975525226

Replays

In this once, it is just Shiinotic basically getting of a mon that could have potentially stopped my Kecleon from cleaning late game which would be the Altaria, so I immediately put it to sleep, and predicting that they would switch I just go for the Strength Sap, but now that I knew they weren't going to switch I just spammed moonblast until the Altaria died, I sacked off my Gogoat and was able to sweep with Kecleon late game, so that was just a minor thing of what it could do, though not too much as I didn't showcase that.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-976023878

Here, Shiinotic really put in work late game, with the comibation of Spore, Giga Drain and Moonblast, I was basically able to clean up late game with Shiinotic.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-976776517

In this one, Shiinotic shows just how well it walls Shiftry due to its great typing and access to Strength Sap and Moonblast, which Shiftry just cannot seem to handle. In this Shiinotic manages to pick up 2 KOs while managing to add defensive utility to my team.

If you want to know what set I am running for Shiinotic, here it is:

Set

Shiinotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 122 SpA / 86 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Strength Sap
- Moonblast

Anyways, that's all I have to say about Shiinotic, I do think it is worthy of A- due to its ability to sleep a mon so reliably and keep defensive utility due to its decent bulk, Spore and Effect Spore while still being a threat due to its good SpAtk stat, but what are your takes on it guys? Please leave your opinions done below and let's have a discussion about this.

 

[Sputnik]

We're back with another weather related nomination that I think deserves looking at.

Beartic: C->C+

The last tier shifts were incredibly significant to our polar friend here. Abomasnow+Bear had previously been a potent offensive core that was feared by many, and Beartic also had a rock solid place on many rain teams thanks to its two weather speed boosting abilities.

Abomasnow's promotion and the drop of Poliwrath initially seemed like the end of Beartic. It's best friend was gone, and now there was even more competition in the rain sweeper role. It looked like Beartic was dead in the water. Hell, I nommed it to drop to C-; I thought it was gone.

Turns out that I was completely incorrect. Bear on rain is still fearsome, and should still be considered on basically every rain team.

The reasoning is pretty simple. Golduck is our best rain sweeper at the moment thanks to its great power and speed in conjunction with good coverage that makes it tough to wall. Really, two things can check Golduck under rain: dedicated Special Walls and certain Water and Grass Types.

These are two things that Beartic could not give two shits about. It's STAB Ice attacks maul every grass type in the tier, and Lickilicky (one of Golduck's biggest issues) as well as most Waters do not want to take a Superpower.

Yes, Beartic is somewhat easier to wall than Golduck, but almost nothing can take the combined force of the two of them together. This incredible synergy alone should be enough to give it a slight boost in ranking if you ask me.

 

[Greybaum]

yo it's your boy uhuhuhu7 here with a few nominations, my first ZU VR post since joining this tier a few months ago. Normally I like my VR posts to be like "this is worse/better than it used to be because of X and Y" but real talk this is the first meta of ZU I've actually been involved in so I can't do that LOL I just think a lot of mons are ranked weirdly. Sorry if some of the noms are just "this is what this mon does. it's good" as a result.

Drops

A+ to A-
It's a threatening breaker, but that's about all it is. We're in a meta where role compression is really important and Pinsir offers little to no defensive utility while still having the usual issues breakers have; it gets revenge killed somewhat easily unless it's Z-Me First, which can often struggle to get that initial kill it needs to clean. It's one of the best breakers/cleaners in the tier and A- is no joke, but it's not powerful enough to warrant being A+ when it better suits the placement of A- breakers in Simisear and Mr. Mime.

A to A-
Still a great Stealth Rock user but Silvally Dark's increased usage and the rise in teams based around Specs Psychic & Trapper hurts it. Bronzor is also suffering in this increasingly offensive meta and as of this post has a 30% win rate in ZUPL. I wouldn't want it lower than A- because of how hard you have to prep against it (e.g. Silvally-Fighting and Servine beat most of the Stealth Rock users in the tier but are unable to touch Bronzor, forcing you to pair it with sufficient offensive pressure) but a drop would reflect its inconsistency in matchups.

A- to B+
Silvally-Ghost has been back for a while now and I'm just not a huge fan. It's in my opinion the best Swords Dance Silvally which gives it a big niche over the other forms and it fills an absolutely required niche of spinblocking on Webs teams, a role it only gets competition from Gourgeist-Small in. It's also one of the better offensive Defog forms because unlike most of them it pressures Bronzor/Mareanie builds really well. It should still be ranked fairly highly. However, in using it as a breaker you're unable to use forms with more defensive utility such as Silvally-Fighting, the rise of Silvally-Dark hurts it and unlike some other physical breakers it has no established way of bypassing physically defensive mons like Mawile, Golem and Pyukumuku.

A- to B+
Silvally-Water is still a good type; it beats Water types like Swanna and doesn't fear Ice Beam from mons like Floatzel unlike Silvally-Dragon, the closest mon to it. That said it's generally overshadowed by Dragon on offensive teams and the more defensive teams are usually better off with a more sturdy water resist like Mareanie because of how much utility the other forms like Dragon and Fighting can bring instead (namely not being killed in one hit by Shiftry)

B+ to B
Pawniard is still great on Webs but I don't see it getting much use outside of that. Generally outclassed as a Pursuit trapper by Silvally-Dark because of the compression that U-Turn and Defog bring, and it doesn't have the speed tier Shiftry has that lets it break efficiently, forcing it to be heavily reliant on Sucker Punch, though it admittedly does have some better matchups vs traditional Shiftry checks like vs Mawile and Shiinotic so I wouldn't want it to drop below B. It's just a bit overshadowed in the current meta. I'll be honest and say this is probably going to be one of the more controversial noms because it could very possibly have more use than I'm seeing, but if people have been experimenting with roles or sets that work better I've not been seeing it. The current position Pawniard holds on the viability rankings simply doesn't mirror the utility I've seen it show in past games.

B+ to B
This mon faces too much competition from Raichu and Electivire, and I don't think I've seen this used in any serious setting since I joined the tier. Much like Pawniard it might have some niche over the others I'm not seeing beyond "Is faster than Floatzel and Swoobat" but I doubt it. Consider this a nom to Usually Useless if Manectric drops later this week.

B to B-
Not much to say here, the meta's more offensive than before and it finds a lot less opportunities to set up. Still a good wincon but inherently matchup based and the good matchups are rarer than you want from a B mon.

B to lower, ideally C-
As far as I'm aware Gabite's only real niche over defensive Golem is checking Combusken lacking HP Ice and having a better matchup vs Silvally-Fight lacking Ice Beam. These are good things, but hardly a massively desired niche, and a lack of recovery outside of Rest and absence of any form of set variation hurts it massively. Rough Skin is the equivalent of Rocky Helmet, which Golem can equip while still maintaining a useful ability, and not worth praising it for. After discussion on Showdown I've accepted that there are teams where you'd want Gabite over Golem, but I consider these very fringe scenarios and not a reason to rank Gabite as high as B.

B to B-
You'd think this would be better in this meta as the more offensive alternative to Bronzor, but I don't think so. It suffers under the same basic reasons; it's fairly passive, hurt by recent meta trends and it doesn't check half the things it wants to check unless you find a way to give it 6 moveslots. Stealth Rock and Meteor Mash are pretty much mandatory, you want Earthquake for Electivire, Probopass, Rapidash etc, Toxic to hit defoggers and Ground-types like defensive Golem and Marowak, Thunder Punch for Swanna (the biggest reason to actually run Metang right now it seems) and even Bullet Punch has merit but it can't afford to run all of these things.

B- to C+
Dusknoir is a good Trick Room setter but I can't see a clear niche outside of that. I'd like to see it in C+, a subrank below Carbink, who's honestly mandatory for the archetype and notably better comparatively.

B- to lower, ideally C-
Abomasnow is gone and while there's still a few mons like Combusken and Rapidash it can check it's still not good. I've checked past pages of this thread and as far as I can see, 5gen made a post in January nomming it from B+ to B- or C+. Council agreed to lower it down to B- and nobody touched it again, here or in any single serious USUM team. Exeggutor exists, Beheeyem exists, and Grumpig doesn't have a clearly defined role; as a special tank there are better options, as a CM user or breaker there are better options, and I don't think I've ever seen a team where the weird fusion of the two was necessary.

Rises

B+ to A- or A
Leafeon's really shown up in ZUPL. It's one of the better Shiftry checks with its SD&Synthesis set, it punishes teams that rely on traditional Shiftry checks (Z-Double Edge bops Shiinotic, it outpaces Silvally-Fighting) and can opt for Knock Off to take out other checks like Bronzor if it wants it. Z-Celebrate is the analysis set right now so I can only imagine people undervalued this mon until now because they were using bad sets but SD Leafeon is one of the best breakers in the tier right now.

B+ to A-
Mawile is the only (good) Stealth Rock user that checks Shiftry and it does a solid job of dealing with other physical threats like Z-MM Swanna and Leafeon at the same time. I'm honestly not sure what else to say on it because everyone should already know what it does, but it's lower than I think it should be considering how useful this role is right now. It's the second most common Stealth Rock user in ZUPL thus far, and while usage doesn't mean everything it should show how meta relevant being able to consistently check Shiftry is right now and how useful it is to compress that with a Stealth Rock user. Rise up my boy.

B to B+
Exeggutor dropped, and that alone makes the aforementioned Specs Psychic & Trapper archetype a lot better. Golem-Alola is a reasonably solid breaker outside of trapping Bronzor but I'll be honest that's the best thing going for it right now because Eggy and Beheeyem both suck vs the shield.

B to B+
It was only in 7 games, but a 71.43% winrate in ZUPL thus far is pretty incredible. This mon maintains a good matchup vs Golem (overall the best rocker) and is the most adept rocker at dealing with Electivire which is a pretty desirable trait to have for otherwise Elec-weak teams. I've been using pinch berry on it for a while now because it just lives everything and the extra layer of protection lets you go for some cheeky stuff like clicking Toxic on a Toucannon or Poliwrath, knowing it won't kill you with Bullet Seed/Scald respectively and you'll be at 60%+ afterwards and ready to keep checking Electivire/Rotom-Fan/whatever else.

B to B+
Okay, I promise this is the last Stealth Rock user. A Double-Edge with no recoil coming from a 568(?) Attack stat is incredible and stops any Ground resist from actually switching into it, giving it a notable advantage over Golem vs Vibrava, Leafeon etc. Not only is it a great Stealth Rock choice right now if you don't need the Normal or Shiftry resist that Golem/Mawile respectively provide but it's also the most threatening Trick Room attacker in the tier. This thing absolutely demolishes slower teams and I'd like to see it get a bit more respect around these parts.

B to A-
Yeah I'm nomming this up almost an entire subrank don't @ me. It's one of the better Shiftry checks in the tier alongside Silv-Fighting since it doesn't actually die to Knock Off into Sucker Punch after a tiny bit of chip like every other form does and Pursuit trapping is notably better with Exeggutor in the tier; it's great to be able to deny the most powerful Specs user in the tier from picking up more than one kill, and Silvally-Dark still provides all the other Defog & Pivot utility every other form does.

C to C+
"Okay, I promise this is the last Stealth Rock user."
I lied.
I doubt this one will actually go through to be honest because nobody's really used it (publicly) but I've done some test games with it and it's suprisingly solid. It hardwalls Rotom-Fan (and due to this has great synergy with Shiftry), serves as a good check to various attackers on the physical side such as Electivire and Combusken (EQ from Electivire doesn't even do 50% btw) and even things you'd expect to beat it like Swanna just doesn't (Liquidation doesn't even 2HKO and Scald does 57% max. It's got insane bulk and even though its typing sucks on paper it's good at checking the things it needs to when you pair it with other sufficiently fat mons.

C to C+
Vibrava pairs great with Mawile and sketchy ecchi's used it in enough balance and stall teams to convince me it's worth a higher rank. It's one of the few Defog users that can consistently keep Stealth Rock off the field vs Golem and when you're using something like Mawile it's really nice to have that consistent check to Ground and Fire types like Golem and Rapidash.

C- to C
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-974857355
Chimecho's bulk and access to Healing Wish gives it a notable niche that makes it worth using over Beheeyem. While this is a niche archetype and I can see the argument for keeping it in C- I think it's consistent enough in its role to warrant a high rank alongside Meowstic-M, Leavanny and Masquerain, three other Pokémon generally known for a similar position of "not the best at their role on a niche archetype but a strong second best" that fits better on a few builds.

C- to C
Listen I think this mon is garbage but it's gotten a notable amount of use for being able to check Shiftry and Exeggutor on stall teams and it's not entirely useless at doing that. I think it has more presence than Hippopotas, Wormadam-Trash or Sliggoo on those kinds of teams and I think the rankings should reflect that.

Quickfire round on mons I'm not sure about but would like to see some discussion on

[Normal] B+ to A-
[Ground] B- to B
[Grass] C+ to B-
C to C+ or B-
C to C+
:Gourgeist-Small: C to C+

B- to C+
A to A-

Honestly actually I'm talking to "above average" czim in Discord rn and you could swap most of C+ and C but it's half midnight and I'd rather not do that myself when I've not used or seen half the mons involved.
Here's what I'd want though at a quick couple-of-seconds glance.
Nom these down to C:
[Poison]
Nom these up to C+:
:gourgeist-small:

Not council so my opinion is mostly irrelevant but legit I think a lot of the bottom half of the VR needs to be nuked and rebuilt because there's a lot of focus on weird psuedo archetypes like Shedinja Stall, Hippo Stall, we have four different Sticky Web users ranked when they all suck at doing anything else etc.