Resource SM ZU Viability Rankings (VR Changes #375)

[Sputnik]

yo it's your boy uhuhuhu7 here with a few nominations, my first ZU VR post since joining this tier a few months ago. Normally I like my VR posts to be like "this is worse/better than it used to be because of X and Y" but real talk this is the first meta of ZU I've actually been involved in so I can't do that LOL I just think a lot of mons are ranked weirdly. Sorry if some of the noms are just "this is what this mon does. it's good" as a result.

Drops

A+ to A-
It's a threatening breaker, but that's about all it is. We're in a meta where role compression is really important and Pinsir offers little to no defensive utility while still having the usual issues breakers have; it gets revenge killed somewhat easily unless it's Z-Me First, which can often struggle to get that initial kill it needs to clean. It's one of the best breakers/cleaners in the tier and A- is no joke, but it's not powerful enough to warrant being A+ when it better suits the placement of A- breakers in Simisear and Mr. Mime.

A to A-
Still a great Stealth Rock user but Silvally Dark's increased usage and the rise in teams based around Specs Psychic & Trapper hurts it. Bronzor is also suffering in this increasingly offensive meta and as of this post has a 30% win rate in ZUPL. I wouldn't want it lower than A- because of how hard you have to prep against it (e.g. Silvally-Fighting and Servine beat most of the Stealth Rock users in the tier but are unable to touch Bronzor, forcing you to pair it with sufficient offensive pressure) but a drop would reflect its inconsistency in matchups.

A- to B+
Silvally-Ghost has been back for a while now and I'm just not a huge fan. It's in my opinion the best Swords Dance Silvally which gives it a big niche over the other forms and it fills an absolutely required niche of spinblocking on Webs teams, a role it only gets competition from Gourgeist-Small in. It's also one of the better offensive Defog forms because unlike most of them it pressures Bronzor/Mareanie builds really well. It should still be ranked fairly highly. However, in using it as a breaker you're unable to use forms with more defensive utility such as Silvally-Fighting, the rise of Silvally-Dark hurts it and unlike some other physical breakers it has no established way of bypassing physically defensive mons like Mawile, Golem and Pyukumuku.

A- to B+
Silvally-Water is still a good type; it beats Water types like Swanna and doesn't fear Ice Beam from mons like Floatzel unlike Silvally-Dragon, the closest mon to it. That said it's generally overshadowed by Dragon on offensive teams and the more defensive teams are usually better off with a more sturdy water resist like Mareanie because of how much utility the other forms like Dragon and Fighting can bring instead (namely not being killed in one hit by Shiftry)

B+ to B
Pawniard is still great on Webs but I don't see it getting much use outside of that. Generally outclassed as a Pursuit trapper by Silvally-Dark because of the compression that U-Turn and Defog bring, and it doesn't have the speed tier Shiftry has that lets it break efficiently, forcing it to be heavily reliant on Sucker Punch, though it admittedly does have some better matchups vs traditional Shiftry checks like vs Mawile and Shiinotic so I wouldn't want it to drop below B. It's just a bit overshadowed in the current meta. I'll be honest and say this is probably going to be one of the more controversial noms because it could very possibly have more use than I'm seeing, but if people have been experimenting with roles or sets that work better I've not been seeing it. The current position Pawniard holds on the viability rankings simply doesn't mirror the utility I've seen it show in past games.

B+ to B
This mon faces too much competition from Raichu and Electivire, and I don't think I've seen this used in any serious setting since I joined the tier. Much like Pawniard it might have some niche over the others I'm not seeing beyond "Is faster than Floatzel and Swoobat" but I doubt it. Consider this a nom to Usually Useless if Manectric drops later this week.

B to B-
Not much to say here, the meta's more offensive than before and it finds a lot less opportunities to set up. Still a good wincon but inherently matchup based and the good matchups are rarer than you want from a B mon.

B to lower, ideally C-
As far as I'm aware Gabite's only real niche over defensive Golem is checking Combusken lacking HP Ice and having a better matchup vs Silvally-Fight lacking Ice Beam. These are good things, but hardly a massively desired niche, and a lack of recovery outside of Rest and absence of any form of set variation hurts it massively. Rough Skin is the equivalent of Rocky Helmet, which Golem can equip while still maintaining a useful ability, and not worth praising it for. After discussion on Showdown I've accepted that there are teams where you'd want Gabite over Golem, but I consider these very fringe scenarios and not a reason to rank Gabite as high as B.

B to B-
You'd think this would be better in this meta as the more offensive alternative to Bronzor, but I don't think so. It suffers under the same basic reasons; it's fairly passive, hurt by recent meta trends and it doesn't check half the things it wants to check unless you find a way to give it 6 moveslots. Stealth Rock and Meteor Mash are pretty much mandatory, you want Earthquake for Electivire, Probopass, Rapidash etc, Toxic to hit defoggers and Ground-types like defensive Golem and Marowak, Thunder Punch for Swanna (the biggest reason to actually run Metang right now it seems) and even Bullet Punch has merit but it can't afford to run all of these things.

B- to C+
Dusknoir is a good Trick Room setter but I can't see a clear niche outside of that. I'd like to see it in C+, a subrank below Carbink, who's honestly mandatory for the archetype and notably better comparatively.

B- to lower, ideally C-
Abomasnow is gone and while there's still a few mons like Combusken and Rapidash it can check it's still not good. I've checked past pages of this thread and as far as I can see, 5gen made a post in January nomming it from B+ to B- or C+. Council agreed to lower it down to B- and nobody touched it again, here or in any single serious USUM team. Exeggutor exists, Beheeyem exists, and Grumpig doesn't have a clearly defined role; as a special tank there are better options, as a CM user or breaker there are better options, and I don't think I've ever seen a team where the weird fusion of the two was necessary.

Rises

B+ to A- or A
Leafeon's really shown up in ZUPL. It's one of the better Shiftry checks with its SD&Synthesis set, it punishes teams that rely on traditional Shiftry checks (Z-Double Edge bops Shiinotic, it outpaces Silvally-Fighting) and can opt for Knock Off to take out other checks like Bronzor if it wants it. Z-Celebrate is the analysis set right now so I can only imagine people undervalued this mon until now because they were using bad sets but SD Leafeon is one of the best breakers in the tier right now.

B+ to A-
Mawile is the only (good) Stealth Rock user that checks Shiftry and it does a solid job of dealing with other physical threats like Z-MM Swanna and Leafeon at the same time. I'm honestly not sure what else to say on it because everyone should already know what it does, but it's lower than I think it should be considering how useful this role is right now. It's the second most common Stealth Rock user in ZUPL thus far, and while usage doesn't mean everything it should show how meta relevant being able to consistently check Shiftry is right now and how useful it is to compress that with a Stealth Rock user. Rise up my boy.

B to B+
Exeggutor dropped, and that alone makes the aforementioned Specs Psychic & Trapper archetype a lot better. Golem-Alola is a reasonably solid breaker outside of trapping Bronzor but I'll be honest that's the best thing going for it right now because Eggy and Beheeyem both suck vs the shield.

B to B+
It was only in 7 games, but a 71.43% winrate in ZUPL thus far is pretty incredible. This mon maintains a good matchup vs Golem (overall the best rocker) and is the most adept rocker at dealing with Electivire which is a pretty desirable trait to have for otherwise Elec-weak teams. I've been using pinch berry on it for a while now because it just lives everything and the extra layer of protection lets you go for some cheeky stuff like clicking Toxic on a Toucannon or Poliwrath, knowing it won't kill you with Bullet Seed/Scald respectively and you'll be at 60%+ afterwards and ready to keep checking Electivire/Rotom-Fan/whatever else.

B to B+
Okay, I promise this is the last Stealth Rock user. A Double-Edge with no recoil coming from a 568(?) Attack stat is incredible and stops any Ground resist from actually switching into it, giving it a notable advantage over Golem vs Vibrava, Leafeon etc. Not only is it a great Stealth Rock choice right now if you don't need the Normal or Shiftry resist that Golem/Mawile respectively provide but it's also the most threatening Trick Room attacker in the tier. This thing absolutely demolishes slower teams and I'd like to see it get a bit more respect around these parts.

B to A-
Yeah I'm nomming this up almost an entire subrank don't @ me. It's one of the better Shiftry checks in the tier alongside Silv-Fighting since it doesn't actually die to Knock Off into Sucker Punch after a tiny bit of chip like every other form does and Pursuit trapping is notably better with Exeggutor in the tier; it's great to be able to deny the most powerful Specs user in the tier from picking up more than one kill, and Silvally-Dark still provides all the other Defog & Pivot utility every other form does.

C to C+
"Okay, I promise this is the last Stealth Rock user."
I lied.
I doubt this one will actually go through to be honest because nobody's really used it (publicly) but I've done some test games with it and it's suprisingly solid. It hardwalls Rotom-Fan (and due to this has great synergy with Shiftry), serves as a good check to various attackers on the physical side such as Electivire and Combusken (EQ from Electivire doesn't even do 50% btw) and even things you'd expect to beat it like Swanna just doesn't (Liquidation doesn't even 2HKO and Scald does 57% max. It's got insane bulk and even though its typing sucks on paper it's good at checking the things it needs to when you pair it with other sufficiently fat mons.

C to C+
Vibrava pairs great with Mawile and sketchy ecchi's used it in enough balance and stall teams to convince me it's worth a higher rank. It's one of the few Defog users that can consistently keep Stealth Rock off the field vs Golem and when you're using something like Mawile it's really nice to have that consistent check to Ground and Fire types like Golem and Rapidash.

C- to C
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-974857355
Chimecho's bulk and access to Healing Wish gives it a notable niche that makes it worth using over Beheeyem. While this is a niche archetype and I can see the argument for keeping it in C- I think it's consistent enough in its role to warrant a high rank alongside Meowstic-M, Leavanny and Masquerain, three other Pokémon generally known for a similar position of "not the best at their role on a niche archetype but a strong second best" that fits better on a few builds.

C- to C
Listen I think this mon is garbage but it's gotten a notable amount of use for being able to check Shiftry and Exeggutor on stall teams and it's not entirely useless at doing that. I think it has more presence than Hippopotas, Wormadam-Trash or Sliggoo on those kinds of teams and I think the rankings should reflect that.

Quickfire round on mons I'm not sure about but would like to see some discussion on

[Normal] B+ to A-
[Ground] B- to B
[Grass] C+ to B-
C to C+ or B-
C to C+
:Gourgeist-Small: C to C+

B- to C+
A to A-

Honestly actually I'm talking to "above average" czim in Discord rn and you could swap most of C+ and C but it's half midnight and I'd rather not do that myself when I've not used or seen half the mons involved.
Here's what I'd want though at a quick couple-of-seconds glance.
Nom these down to C:
[Poison]
Nom these up to C+:
:gourgeist-small:

Not council so my opinion is mostly irrelevant but legit I think a lot of the bottom half of the VR needs to be nuked and rebuilt because there's a lot of focus on weird psuedo archetypes like Shedinja Stall, Hippo Stall, we have four different Sticky Web users ranked when they all suck at doing anything else etc.

I'm not about to address every discussion point in this massive ass opinion dump (like, damn dude, nice post) but there are a few of the C rank mons that I would like to give some more thorough opinions of

C --> C+: Agree
Bibarel is one of the best offensive threats that an offensive team could ever hope for. With one turn of setup this stupid beaver turns into a devastating wallbreaker and a good sweeper all in one slot. It has the coverage to hit virtually everything hard and has priority to make up for its bad speed. Its issues setting up and a vulnerability to other priority users limit its effectiveness to an extent, but its so good if you give it the right support. That can be said about a lot of stuff, sure, but with Bibarel the support is actually worth the effort.

B- --> C+: Disagree
I can see the argument for this 100%. The presence of Shiftry makes using Swoobat hard, and it can have huge issues finding a place to get its Sub+CM shenanigans going against offensive teams thanks to its extreme frailty. It also has issues breaking through a couple of defensive pokes and can be revenge killed by most priority users if the sub gets broken.

But holy moley this thing is dangerous if you play your cards right. Setting up a sub on something passive (or something that can't hit it super hard) can win the game right then and there, and once it gets a calm mind or two it's just about over. Even Shiftry doesn't want to take this thing on behind its sub thanks to Air Slash taking care of it. It can be tough to use, and it won't pull its weight sometimes, but a deft hand can get so much value out of this thing.

C+ --> C: Agree, or even lower.
Armaldo just doesn't do that much in this meta. It's outclassed by our other spinners pretty thoroughly (most notably by Sandslash, who has the same SR+Spin thing going and has a better typing) which kills one of its main potential niches. Offensively its outclassed on rain by Beartic and as an offensive Rock/Bug type altogether it faces extremely stiff competition from Crustle, who boasts Shell Smash. Armaldo's one saving grace could be running a Rockium+SD set for a rain team, although quite frankly I'd still rather use Beartic. I suppose it could provide spin support for a rain team if you really needed it, but a lot of rain teams don't even bother with hazard removal in favor of just raw offensive pressure. Armaldo doesn't have too much of a place; it belongs in C- if you ask me.

 

[DirtyPenguin]

Hey all it's Dirty the low ladder titan. Not gonna make any noms this time but I'd like to make some thoughts and opinions on uhu's C-Rank mons.

C+->C

Disagree
I know this is kind of outclassed by Muk, but it's still a set up sweeper to be reckoned with, and lack of viable Poison types gives it few competition. It has Sucker for priority and coverage in Aqua Tail, it's faster and has two really good abilities as well, so it shouldn't be ignored completely lol. +1 Arbok does so much as well, but it can't take hits, unfortunately.

Calc Examples

+1 252 Atk Arbok Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Swanna: 342-403 (117.5 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Arbok Aqua Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Golem: 380-448 (126.2 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Arbok Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Shiftry: 798-938 (248.5 - 292.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Arbok Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Combusken: 357-421 (136.7 - 161.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Agree
SputnikGT already talked about Armaldo, so I'm not gonna too in depth but yeah. It's basically a worse Sandslash, having practically the same utility while having a way worse defensive typing and Beartic might be better as a non water type rain sweeper but I feel like that's debatable.


Agree
Yeah, not a fan of this thing lol. I've always preferred Simipour as a water type set up sweeper who is generally more faster and powerful. Plus Huntail doesn't even OHKO a lot of things at +2 so yeah it's pretty sucky. I'd probably find this thing really scary under rain, but that's about it.

No experience so I can't comment on these ones.


Agree
Yeah, a lot of people have wanted this thing to drop for a while. Komala and Lickilicky are just so, so much better than this thing. They just way more and generally better utility. I mean sure Sub is pretty scary, but that can played around really easily, and so many players are becoming more prepared for stall. A drop is def overdue.

No experience.


Disagree
No. I'd probably argue that Smeargle is the second best web setter in the tier. It gives you so much utility, and it's the best web setter for offensive teams. Spore, Nuzzle, and rocks are awesome moves to have in one mon, and it has good lead MUs as well. It really shouldn't be placed in the same boat as Leavanny and Masq tbh.


C->C+

Agree
Sputnik already talked about Bibarel so I'm not gonna talk about this. +4 Attack is nothing to laugh at lol.


Agree
Yeah I talked about this thing already lol. Good defensive stats, broken ass regen, normal and flying check, the usual.


Agree
Yes, yes, yes. Duosion is a perfect stallbreaker for stall teams, and once it's set up, it's impossible to stop outside of Pyukumuku lol. It's a very scary set-up mon, and while it does take a few turns, it has the bulk to do so.

No experience with any of these unfortunately.


Agree
Uhu talked about this and I agreed with everything that he said. Stunfisk is a very good wall, walling a lot stuff like Fantom, Busken, and E-Vire. Offers good utility as well, and it beats Swanna as well. So yeah, underrated mon.


Agree
Another mon I already talked about, good and underrated defogger is describes it perfectly. :)

Thanks for reading see ya!

 

[5gen]

Going to add some quick noms, might reply to people's noms at a later point.

B to B+

I've been spamming Simisage throughout ZUPL because of how well it functions as a breaker and revenge killer in the current metagame. Metagame trends such as decreased Muk usage and more Marowak, Z-MM Swanna, Silvally-Dark, and non-Scarf Electivire usage help make Simisage better. Moreover, Simisage's fantastic coverage and Speed tier allow it to threaten a vast amount of the tier. Coverage in Superpower, Gunk Shot, and Rock Slide help Simisage circumvent popular Grass-type checks such as Bouffalant, Shiinotic, and Rapidash. While Simisage does compete with Shiftry as a mixed attacking Grass-type, Simisage is able to outspeed and threaten Pokemon such as Swanna (resisting +2 Jet is great too), Leafeon, non-Scarf Electivire, and various Silvally types. In addition, NP heavily threatens stall, which has seen notable usage this ZUPL.

B- to B+ or B

Silvally-Ground is at a great place in the current metagame thanks to its role compression and ability to soft check various top Pokemon such as Golem and Electivire. Moreover, Ground-type STAB is useful offensively, helping Silvally-Ground revenge kill or threaten common Pokemon such as Combusken, Rapidash, Raichu, Mawile, and so on. While Silvally-Ground does compete with other Silvally types, I believe it provides enough distinct role compression and is consistent enough for a rise. Similarly, I believe Silvally-Ground eclipses Sandslash as a Ground-type entry hazard remover right now because of its Speed and ability to pivot. The current metagame favors momentum and is filled with good breakers, and in my experience Sandslash is susceptible to too much compared to Silvally-Ground who can at least circumvent certain threats thanks to its stats and move pool.

 

[275p]

Hey buddy boys and buddy girls! I just wanna talk about some of the C pokemon. Let's go!

Armaldo--> C Agree

It really pains me to say this, but Armaldo is not good in the current meta. Sure it has a nice defense stat and has a nice attack, coupled with Swords Dance and Swift Swim. This would make it a viable offense threat on rain teams. However Beartic exists, who also has Swift Swim and does it way better thanks to a better attack and speed stat. Due to this Armaldo should fall imo.

Quilladin--> C Agree

Quilladin is just not good enough as a spike user. It is too passive, unlike Crustle and also too slow, unlike Smeargle. Sure it has good bulk with evio and access to Leech Seed, but that's not enough to justify it for use on a team. Being dependent on evio and having a bad defensive typing really hinders it y'know. So y'see, just use the aforementioned options.

Noctowl--> C Disagree

Noctowl is not suited for C. Sure it is slow, but let me tell you that thing is dangerous! After one work up boost, it two koes everything and a 1+ boosted Sss is able to KO Rotom F and cripples Bronzor hard. Not only that, but it can play around Shiftry's Sucker Punch with Roost and is at 2+ speed able to outspeed scarfers like Evire and Saws! It also has nice special bulk, making setting up easier. The only problems are its physical defense, its slow speed, Stealth Rock weakness and Hurricane's bad accuracy, but that is hardly enough to justify it falling.


Bibarel--> C+ Agree

After one Swords Dance, the beaver is able to KO almost anything in the Tier apart from some exceptions like Pyu and Gour. The typing is also awesome, being able to hit everything at least neutral and with priority in the form of Quick Attack, this thing can wreck entire teams. However it must be noted, that it is still very frail and needs support to work functionally. Neverthless, don't underesimate the beaver!

Furfrou--> C+ Agree

I can't say enough, how much I like this mon! With CB it gets a decent attack and also works well on Voltturn-Cores with its access to U-turn. Not only that, but it also threatens Golem with Grass Knot which deals heavy damage despite its low Spatk. We shouldn't forget the ability to tank neutral physical attacks quite well, thanks to Fur Coat and a speed tier that lets it outspeed Swanna. The only problem about Choice Band Furfrou is the shallow movepool, but that's an issue one can ignore.

 

[Zneon]

-> C+ Agree
This thing is a threat, the moment it uses SD it becomes a threatening wallbreaker that can run through teams, its stab allows it to hit almost everything in the tier neutrally and 2 of its priority, which are also stab makes it quite difficult to revenge kill, its easy to cover its flaws with the right support as well. there isn't much to say what's already been said, but yeah this thing deserves a rise.

-> C Agree
Yeah I think this thing ain't that great, I'm not going to go too in-depth since everyone above explains it better than I ever could, but to summarise, Sandslash does Armaldo's niche so much better, and as a rain sweeper, beartic and golduck are the better at that job, there isn't much going for it atm.

-> C Disagree
Don't drop this, despite being clearly a worse web setter than Shuckle it's still one of the best web setters in the tier, like DirtyPenguin said, Smeargle has so much utility to really drop this thing, as it does its job as a web setter than Leavanny and Masquerian ever could, keep it at C+.

-> C+ Agree
This thing is pretty good, amazing ability, great typing, access to sr, great defensive stats, able to switch into and wall mons that don't have a strong coverage move or grass move and access to Recover to just stall them if they are just unable to kill it, also it is a fantastic check to Swanna, so yeah C+ for me.

 

[Apagogie]

With the ZUPL, it is pretty normal to actualize the Viability Rankings. There are already a lot of nominations, I will add some to the list.

Rises
Altaria B+ -> A-
This mon dropped last time for no any good reason. Despite its passivity, to have a defogger which handles shiftry, which resists the dual stab of Combusken, which is one of the best switch of Exeggutor and which is also a good toxic absorber and with recovery, makes altaria probably the best utility mon in ZU. It has been the 13th mon the most played in ZUPL and has also found its place in stall team. It's really more splashable than the rest of B+ mon and should deserve a rise at least in A-.

Avalugg B- -> B
I won't be long here, despite the stealth rocks weakness which is really annoying for a spinner, Avalugg is one of the staple mon in stall. It's often, with Altaria, the mon which has to be killed to allow our threats to start to pressure the opponent. A large part of stall battles is now to find a way to bypass it. With the impressive winrate of stall this tournament, I don't see why this mon should stay in B-. It's more viable than mons actually in B so it's at least a place totally deserved for Avalugg.


Drops
Muk A -> A-
This pokemon becomes too much and difficult to place to still fit in A. Curse set is really difficult to set up right now with the amount of pressure most of the mons high ranked exerce on Muk. The rise of psychic types and the fact and the fall of balance doesn't allow Muk to find its place in the metagame. Mons such as Beheyeem/Kadabra or stall mons such as Lickilicky or Pyukumuku in A- are more viable currently than Muk, despite being all ranked in A-. Other Muk sets exist and are correct but none of them are A worthy. It's more secondary sets which don't have the value of mons such as Bouffalant SD, Mareanie or Exeggutor.

Poliwrath A- -> B+
I finally join the advice of the majority, Poliwrath didn't become a staple mon in ZU. It's a good mon in theory, the problem is it relies a lot about the metagame, especially the defensive sets. A lot of mons against which Poliwrath is strong such as Floatzel, Pinsir, Pawniard and Crustle are really low in usage, which makes Poliwrath not as useful as it would like to be. Even Combusken hasn't been specially amazing lately. The fact that it loses against a lot of top tiers doesn't help either. It hasn't done something impressive in ZUPL so I think it's the right time to drop it.

Other sets such as BD Poliwrath or SubPunch toxic stay dangerous considering that not a lot of Pokemon are able to deal with that. Nevertheless, these sets aren't very splashable and struggle to set up/click substitute in a metagame so offensive. Poliwrath is a correct mon but it's easier to compare it in terms of viability to B+ mons such as Toucannon, Dusclops or Machoke than mons such as Beheyeem, Silvally-Dragon or Lickilicky which are all A-.

Simisear A- ->B+/B
I will be short here because I already did a nomination some weeks ago : Simisear is a Pokemon which is good against stall. However, except this special case, it has trouble to set up against anything else. Some people used also scarf on it but this set is not A- worthy, especially when it lets mons such as Swanna Mirror Move or Rain Dance sets up for free. Simipour and Simisage are globally better Simi, I don't see why it should be higher than them.

Hakamo-O B -> C+
If Hakamo-o is a good shiftry check, it's really the only thing it can do at the moment (and in losing the eviolite which is not specially a good trade). This Pokemon is passive and passivity is not a good thing in an offensive metagame. Notably, the popularity of Swanna, Shiinotic, Rotom-Fan, Kadabra and Exeggutor prevents it to have a good match up. I have never seen recently a battle of tournament where it has been played. Mons such as Oricorio-Baille, Rampardos or Raticate are better than Hakamo-O so I think a C+ rank is more accurate than a B- one. Honestly, I think Machoke is better in a lot of situations. Hakamo-O is even hard walled by Mareanie which is never a good thing.

Dugtrio B- -> C
Never played outside of suicid lead HO which is not the playstyle I would recommend the most at the moment. Dugtrio is a mon which has only one role (in excluding the choice band set which has never even tried seriously) and this, even if it does it well, is not only a niche role but also a role where it is outclassed. Basically, Golem suicid lead is as strong as Dugtrio most of the time. The only place where Dug finds its place is in screen HO. This playstyle is viable but it's pretty limited to be the place of a B- mon which is outclassed everywhere else. A drop in C reflects its viability.

Misdreavus B- -> C
Once again, this Pokemon is almost never played at high level (I don't remember a single replay where it has been played). This Pokemon doesn't have any clear role at the moment where it is outclassed in offensive ghost type, in spinblocker and in stallbreaker. The presence of Silvally in 3/4 of teams is generally very bad for Misdreavus because it means there is a faster bulky mon which is easily able to toxic/weaken it. This kind of mon doesn't really like either an offensive meta. It is not on the step of viability than mons such as Rampardos, Raticate or Oricorio-Baille. It's even not on the same level viability than mons such as soon Bibarel, and Ninjask and Basculin. Even in the C rank, there are mons better than Misdreavus but probably these mons should rise.

Leavanny C -> Unranked Masquerain C -> C-
Shuckle and Smeargle both outclass them in terms of Sticky Webs users. You don't have good reasosn to play other users of Sticky Webs at the moment. It's especially the case when two of the most common Defog users are Silvally and Swanna which both outspeed the Bugs and makes Defog relatively easy to click, this means the speed tier is not even an argument. Use Shuckle or Smeargle to a lesser extent but no any other mon.

Slaking C- to Unranked
Play Komala Band, Furfrou Band or Pawniard/Silvally Dark if you want a pursuit trapper in stall but not Slaking. A free turn is never good, it invites easily late game sweepers such as Swanna Z-Move or Shiftry and it's the last thing you would like doing in this metagame. Verus Stall, there are too much protect mons which makes its pursuit trap unreliable, notably against Komala Spd and Bronzor which are two defensive mons which are annoying to deal with for stall. No serious team should play Slaking. Sorry quagsgone but keep playing Komala Band.

I will quickly comment other nominations. Since there are really too much nominations to comment each one, I won't comment when I agree with a post which describes why a pokemon should rise/drop. Just see the reasoning of the original post, I generally agree with that.



Rises :

Komala A+ -> S Disagree
Komala is very strong but it is not of the same level of restrictions than mons such as Shiftry or Swanna. I don't see why it should rise now.
Leafeon B+ -> A Agree
Mawile B+ -> A- Agree
Shiinotic B+ -> A- Agree
Golem-Alola B -> B+ Disagree
Bronzor is really not in a good spot right now and mons such as Shiftry/Silvally Dark are enough to punish it. The lack of the ground time means that it doesn't have a really useful role except trapping nowadays, it cannot serve as a volt switch blocker or like a soft golem switch in. In every other match up than versus bronzor, regular Golem does a better job (even when both are banded). Since it's a not usual situation, I don't see why it should rise right now.
Sandslash B -> B+ Agree
Simiage B -> B+ Agree
Marowak B -> B+ Agree
Silvally-Dark B -> A- Abstain
Silvally-Ground B- -> B Agree
Ditto C+ -> B- Disagree
I don't see why it should rise. It has always the same viability than before in the metagame. This is really the kind of mon you use to counter team someone or in stall but it is not the most reliable mon otherwise. I feel C+ is enough.
Volbeat C+ -> B- Abstain
Furfrou C -> C+ Abstain
Beartic C -> C+ Agree
Bibarel C -> C+ Agree
Yes, this mon can easily 6-0 you if you let one turn to set up. It's not easy but it's more threating than the whole C+ rank.
Silvally-Grass C+ -> B- Disagree
Honestly, this thing could drop in my opinion. I don't what special it brings to a team. Sure, bulky grass types are always good but mons such as Shiinotic, Gourgeist-Super, Leafeon or Cradily bring more than that. Even if you want to use it in defogger, you need Mareanie to absorb t-spikes and to be honest, I would rather play Carnivine than Silvally-Grass, at least it doesn't take the t-spikes. This thing is not more viable than Vally Electric which at least handles Swanna. It shouldn't rise in my opinion.
Frogadier C -> C+ Disagree
I don't see what have changed for this mon. If anything, the fact that Shiftry / Evire and especially Swanna which outspeeds it naturally are so played right now doesn't look to be a good thing for Frogadier. I don't remember to see good replays with Frogadier inside either (if anyone has, I could maybe change my mind). I don't see why it should rise at the moment.
Corsola C -> C+ Agree
Durza showed how in several games how this mon is really annoying to deal with. A rise is deserved
Glaceon C -> C+ Agree
Yes, You always kill a slower mon. Now Abomasnow is gone, it's the best ice wallbreaker. I tested it and it's good.
Duosion C -> C+ Agree
Stunfisk C -> C+ Abstain
Murkrow C -> C+ Disagree
I don't see why this mon should rise considering Mawile is very popular right now and playing this mon cost you the Z-move. Z-Mirror Move Swanna is better in almost any case and I don't see why you should play Murkrow over Swanna except for style points.
Vibrava C -> C+ Agree
Very good defoger against golem teams. It's also a combusken answer and a pivot/toxic user. People should play vibrava more.
Chimecho C- -> C Agree
It's better than Dusknoir so I guess C is a good rank.
Vullaby C- -> C Agree
Yeah, it is used in serious teams.



Drops :

Pinsir A+ -> A- Agree of course
Bronzor A -> A- Agree
Silvally Ghost A- -> B+ Agree
Silvally Water A- -> B+ Abstain
Pawniard B+ -> B Disagree
I'm aware that estimate the viability of Pawniard these days is pretty difficult because it is not a lot played but usage doesn't mean viability. Pawniard is not only used in webs. Even if it's difficult to fit in teams, as it has been said, it has the opportunity to get rid of many mons such as Mawile, Shiinotic or Vally Dark that people generally use in dark check. In ZUPL, it got 60% of winrate which is really good lol. If anything, it should rise.
Zebstrika B+ -> B Agree
Bellossom B -> B- Abstain
Gabite B -> C- Disagree
Nah, a rocker which stops Physical combusken to set up is no joke for the role compression. We already had this discussion on the chat so I won't develop much but if I could see it drop in B- because Combusken is not as strong as in the past, Gabite easily stays our fourth best rocker in the tier and couldn't drop lower in my opinion.
Metang B -> B- Disagree
It's a good rocker in offense and its ability to handle Swanna / psychic type makes it really decent. It's fine where it is
Dusknoir B- -> C+ Agree... But even C-
This mon has small reason to be played. People use Chimecho instead of Dusknoir in TR and they are right because HW doesn't cost you the Z-move. The two times TR was played in ZUPL, chimecho was played instead of Dusk. I think Diagnostic is right in saying that even Dusclops is a better TR setter than Dusknoir because it underspeeds Beeheyeem. I think it should be ranked because the choice band set hasn't been explorated yet but in waiting if that set becomes something a day, C- is the rank that dusknoir deserves now.
Grumpig B- -> C Agree
Armaldo C+ -> C- Agree
In rain, I prefer playing Beartic which is more effective to break Stall than SD Armaldo. You generally don't have any room to add it in rain because other set up sweepers or breakers are more useful and don't rely as much as Armaldo to the rain . Even against mons it's in theory better than Beartic/Baculin such as Mareanie, Scald Burn sucks and it does too much damages to hope keep armaldo alive after this (you are easily revenge killed by electivire for example). It should be ranked though because not a lot of teams handle well the Water + Rock coverage. However, it stays a suboptimal mon most of the time and C+ is way too high for that.
Huntail C+ -> C Agree
Even if a day this mon becomes used, we have different mons in ZU which are able to wall it such as Mareanie, Poliwrath, Pyukumuku. No reason to keep it that high.
Quilladin C+ -> C Agree
Yeah, I tested it in bulky spikes team. This archetype is not very effective right now, you don't have the time to click spikes (and it's anyway removed quickly). Quilladin in itself suffers from a huge 4mss which is really annoying because you are quickly walled by a kind of mon/team. It would like to have 8 moves, notably to don't lose against Leafeon/Shiftry/prevents users to use statut moves/phaze. The drop is justified
Silvally-Poison C+ -> C Disagree
Soft Shiftry check which takes toxic spikes. It's even good in stall team. No reason to drop it at the moment.
Regigigas C+ -> C Agree
In an offensive meta, wait 5 turns never happens. It's in theory good against stall but it's not a guaranteed answer. See this ZUPL battle Sketchy versus Rawmelon https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-964927993
Regice C+ -> C Abstain
Smeargle C+ -> C Abstain
Arbok C+ -> C Abstain
Noctowl C+ -> C Abstain

 

[5gen]

Hey all, with ZUPL done with, the VR slate will go up this coming Sunday or Monday. As such, VR nominations are open until Sunday afternoon or evening GMT -4 (whenever I’m free). That means all new nominations can be made until the VR is locked on the deadline

 

[Aaronboyer]

Rises:
Silvally-Dragon A- to A
Silvally-Dragon did exceptionally in ZUPL and I would mainly attribute that to the fact people aren't running Dragon resists. Draco Meteor is so easy to freely click its ridiculous, and although Bronzor will likely see an uptick in usage with Torterra's entrance and the likelihood of Shiftry being banned soon Silvally-Dragon's viability might fluctuate again. However, in the current metagame, Silvally-Dragon is easily on par with Silvally-Fighting and appreciates the omnipresence of Shiftry being such a good Knock Off user to dissuade people from using Bronzor or Metang from the teambuilder.

Torterra UR to A
Torterra is everywhere and it's not hard to see why. Torterra's fantastic typing and decent natural bulk allow it to switch into a neutral attack or two. But while most other people see Torterra as an A- ranked Pokemon from as much as I've gathered so far, what pushes Torterra into the A range for me is its set diversity. Defensive, SD 3 Attacks, Choice Band, Double Dance, and Offensive SR are just some of the main great sets it can run, and Torterra can be customized to address a certain team's needs. Torterra is a really good pick in this meta and I'm really happy that we finally got it back.

Bellossom B to B+/A-
I cannot say enough good things about Bellossom. Bellossom literally wins a third of its games from Team Preview. It's also a Shiftry check not only to physical or mixed sets, but also to Z-Hurricane sets as well after just two Quiver Dances. Z-Strength Sap is also just something else and allows Bellossom to just snowball unbelievably. I've used Bellossom in two of my recent seasonal series and it won both games after just eliminating one key threat. Replay 1 Replay 2

Metang B to B+
Despite only winning 40% of its games during ZUPL, I really do believe Metang is more splashable and a better gluemon than Bronzor could ever hope to be in this offensive metagame. Metang also fits really well with all of our most common Silvally formes (Fighting/Dragon/Water) and has even somewhat adapted to the dominance of Swanna by packing Thunder Punch although its a bit ineffective as a lure atm. Really underutilized.

Silvally-Ground B- to B
Silvally-Ground is one of the more underrated Silvally formes and did surprisingly well in ZUPL. Soft checks Electivire pretty well and has a great matchup versus most opposing Stealth Rock users.

Drifblim C+ to B-
Probably my favorite Pokemon to use during ZUPL besides Bellossom, I've nominated Drifblim up several times before, so if it doesn't happen this time I'll stop. I just really love this Pokemon a lot and the recent tech I've rediscovered in Explosion catches certain Choice Scarf users such as Electivire and Rotom-Fan off guard due to Unburden and the key Attack boost Liechi Berry provides. Calm Mind Drifblim is also surprisingly decent, although it wouldn't be any motivation to move Drifblim up on the VR.

Gourgeist-Small C to C+
Now with Silvally-Ghost gone and having only Misdreavus as remote competition, Gourgeist-Small becomes ZU's best spinblocker by far for Sticky Web Offense. Gourgeist-Small has a lot of minor attributes that can easily go unnoticed but actually add up to be a lot. Will-o-Wisp gives Gourgeist-Small a lot of utility, Synthesis gives it reliable recovery, Explosion can catch something like Swanna or Expert Belt Electivire off guard, etc. etc. Gourgeist-Small also fits well with Pawniard or Purugly, especially the former.

Lapras C to C+
Ho3n has already said it, let me say it again for those in the back of the room: no one is running proper Ice-resists anymore and it shows. Bronzor and Metang have admittedly been seeing less and less usage, Probopass and Mawile get smacked by Hydro Pump and at most people are running something like Mareanie which gets blown back by Freeze Dry. It's prediction reliant, hard to build around, and has a hard time switching in, but Choice Specs Lapras is a pain in the butt to switch into itself and forces so many Pokemon out due to its great natural bulk.

Other Rises I Agree With:
Silvally-Grass C+ to B-
Ditto C+ to B-
Probopass C+ to B-
Shuckle C+ to B-
Corsola C to C+
Furfrou C to C+
Vullaby C- to C

Drops:
Pinsir A+ to A
We already saw a really great post by Union Caboche on how Pinsir has really fallen off as of late, but I do think A- is a tad much. Z-MF is still a really threatening set that can snowball quickly, but the fast that Pinsir only has 85 Speed just isn't really cutting it anymore.

Zebstrika B+ to C
Zebstrika is currently at the same rank as Dusclops, Altaria, Pawniard, and Shiinotic. LOL. Zebstrika is an absolute trash Pokemon in the current metagame and has no firepower behind any of its attacks. If its not super effective, its not doing shit.

Dusknoir B- to C+
Why is Dusknoir, a Pokemon that has now been competing with Chimecho for a team slot on Trick Room suddenly at the same viability rank as Carbink, the most important Trick Room setter in the entire tier, one you can't forgo?

Grumpig B- to C+/C
Only thing this has over Beheeyem is that it checks Combusken better.

Armaldo C+ to C
Even with Abomasnow leaving and Rain getting better with Poliwrath around, Armaldo is still isn't that good and is actually quite slow under Rain still. As a standalone offensive Rapid Spinner its also really garbage.

Murkrow C to C-/UU/UR
Z-Mirror Move Murkrow has become completely outclassed by Swanna as Z-MM has become the most popular and scariest set. Swanna also has defensive merits while Murkrow does not, especially if it wants to use Flyinium Z over Eviolite.

Sliggoo C- to UR
I would never ever even think about using this over any of our more consistent win-cons. We also just ranked Zweilous which is much better in the metagame than Sliggoo and can actually take on Exeggutor among other Pokemon.

Other Drops I Agree With:
Muk A to A-
Floatzel A- to B+
Mr. Mime A- to B+
Simisear A- to B+
Raichu B+ to B
Gabite B to C
Butterfree B- to C+
Ninjask C+ to C
Flareon C to UU

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

Just the big ones for the most part.

Rises:

Torterra: UR > A-

Tort offers great stats with a unique typing that allows it to have multiple functions in the ZU meta. Its teambuildng potentials are huge in a lot of ways, and can function as a wall, sweeper, wall breaker, hazard setter, and more. This variability does come at the cost of maybe not being the best at any single set it does. All of Tort's sets have flaws with either limited coverage, power, or defenses. This is of course comes in comparison to the traditional mons in the tier that Tort competes with.
Overall though I don't want to reiterate too much of what was already stated about the mon. I think it's more than a B rank mon but fails to be closer to the top tiers because of some of its short comings and competition. It just isn't completely meta defining yet by the first impressions.

Bibarel: C > B-

Bib functions on screens, webs, and other HOs as such a threatening mon after getting an SD up. Its priority and huge attack means theres not much that can stop it coverage wise, and only a few huge phys walls or stallers can deal with it. Its few resistances means that baiting KOs for it to SD on the revenge make it an excellent wincon. It means that scarf Vire can't afford to revenge RP Tort or Silv Dragon with Ice Punch or Bib will have a free SD. Same goes for not being able to revenge NP Simisear and Combusk with scarf EQ, and the list goes on for weaker, non SE attacks for Bib to set up on. The point is that currently it meshes well enough with the current threats, and screens both pre and post Tort have been ladder dominating with Bib always a star player.

Marowack: B > B+

Maro has proven to be integral for teams that need the stallbreaker and a strong, reliable ground. The power it has right off the bat is awesome, and its phys bulk aint bad either, meaning that even on slower SubSD sets there is some bulk to make it harder to revenge. More so, the popularity of choiced Electric users makes Maro the best punisher for a Volt Switch. It's more than just an antilead with rocks that can 1hko Golem past sturdy, Maro is incredibly signifigant and viable to the tier.

Simisage: B > B+

Sage stick itself out from the other grasses and simis by having an incredibly strong STAB in Leaf Storm and overall great coverage, speed, and special power. Having Knock Off is great for denting Bronz and other special wall switch ins on both the NP and mixed sets, while the rest of the physical coverage in Superpower/Gunk/HP Ice are awesome for hitting Normal/Grass/Dragon walls. Other resists usually can't stomach a +2 Z leaf storm as is, and when combined with Overgrow it can be an unstoppable WB that is at a great speed! It deserves to be on par with Simipour no doubt.

Quick Noms:

C- > C:
Vullaby is a serious consideration in meta that is bullied around by Egg and Shift, should be given more thought on some balance/stall teams.

C- > C:
ZUPL and other previous stall games shows the need to have a Ground to provide rocks and a Volt immunity that can also have immediate recovery. While still extremely niche, its value has surely been proven to be above the niche and almost unusable C- tiers.

C > C+:
Not near its Abo days, but I do think its educated to have Bear be nommed one role higher in a meta so weak to Ice that hail teams have actually been working again. That, and more realistically on rain teams it is a very threatening weather sweeper worth being on the higher end of the C tier.

(Dragon) A- > A:
This monster has been dropping dracos like its nobody's buisness. This relatively fast, unresisted special STAB with Flamethrower/Uturn support make it so valuable. Combo that with incredibly relevant resistances and you have yourself a Silv form that should be on par with Silv-Fighting no doubt.

C > B-:
CB Furf offers a great speed and STAB Return that 1hkos a ton of slower offensive mons. It works as an excellent pivot with U-Turn, lack of weaknesses, and Fur Coat to make it take a lot of strong physical attacks and 1v1 physical attackers that it might not be able break immediately. Combine that with a Surf that 2hkos all Golems even with negative investment and a Sucker when in a pickle, and thats the set! CB Furf is totally worth exploring and exploiting in a meta like this, and should be no where near the middling depths of C rank.


Drops:

Pinsir: A+ > B+

Pinsir is no longer the meta defining mon that it was once viewed as. Right now, it is doing nothing significant to teams compared to others in its role. As a scarfer? It's too slow and weak to SR, with no utility besides Knock Off. Late game sweeper? It just doesn't have the best chances to set up, and even then it gets walled by a ton without SD.
The best set might just be SD Mold Breaker, as that can WB exceptionally well and offers a decent speed for a huge attack stat. But that speed just can't keep up with all the base 90+ spe users in the tier, and it has a hard time justifying a mono Bug type on a team. Other WBs like Bouf or Shift have much better defenses or priority to abuse, and offer better STABs and offensive coverage than Pinsir's base 80 X Scissor.
Pinsir is heavily overrated in ZU and is not deserving of anything inside the A rank. The 125 attacking stat is becoming less unique and valuable to mons with similar/weaker attack but with much better STABs and utility. Pinsir is often shoehorned in on most teams and does not have the teambuilding allure to it at all.

Mr. Mime: A- to B

There isn't much Mime does any more that makes it that great, which is a shame because it almost has the recipe for success but its missing a few ingredients. Its sets as a scarfer or NP WB fail for being too slow, frail, and not having any relevant immunities or MUs. Even its niche as a scarfer with Trick is totally outclassed by Rotom-F, which can stomach a LO Sucker from shift but also has the much needed EQ immunity and Flying resist. Healing Wish also has fallen out of favor and is tricky to use, and even with more coverage Mime just doesn't have the firepower to be that threatening. Not to mention that common, faster scarfers like Vire/Swan/Silvally all at the least 1hko Mime after rocks (the less common scarf rapi/saws also 1hko without rocks).
It makes the small niches Mime has be really questionable. It just shouldn't be one the same level as some of the top tier scarves or NP WBs.

Quick Noms:

B+ > B:
Machoke can't even reliably check Shift because Knock into Leaf Storm, and overall is reliant on shoddy forms of recovery or damage dealing. It has some good traits that still make it have a different and worth considering niche over something like Poli or Silv-Fight, but it just isn't that valuable to be this high.

B+ > C+:
A whole tier down, Zeb does nothing an electric type should or can do for the tier. It has some decent things for it, but it's too weak. It's largely outclassed by Raichu which has more power and NP to actually abuse. The fact these two are in the same tier is crazy because the AoA Zeb set is so much worse than Raichu's. Drop Zeb into C+ because only a few niche teams want both an elec to be at the high speed its at and not want to enjoy any of the much better perks that Rotom/Vire/Raichu bring to the table.

B > B-:
Hak just doesn't do much again as a fighting or dragon that Poli or Fraxure can't do. I think it just ran under the radar, and even tho its a niche Shift check as well it just isn't that worthwhile.

 

[5gen]

Hey all, time for an update. Quick disclaimer: Because the council size was reduced to 4 members and Torterra is a new Pokemon, we decided to break the tie using staff votes. This is an exception because Torterra is a new Pokemon, which means that UR Pokemon that are ZU by usage as well as all the other ties in this slate cannot be decided by non-council votes. Sheet is here

Apologies for taking this long, I got sick and then had a midterm to study for, so I couldn't pound these write-ups out.

new mon ranked at A-

Torterra has quickly solidified itself as a premier Stealth Rock user, breaker, and sweeper. It is able to run a variety of sets effectively and its typing and great natural bulk make Torterra a fantastic fit in the ZU metagame. Moreover, Torterra threatens much of the tier thanks to its good power and STABs, and it is able to find plenty of opportunities to switch in or setup. That being said, the prominence of bulky Grass-type Pokemon as well as Ice-, Fire-, and Flying-type coverage leave Torterra somewhat easy to threaten.

Rises

Silvally-Dragon A- to A+
Altaria B+ to A-
Leafeon B+ to A-
Mawile B+ to A-
Marowak B to B+
Silvally-Dark B to B+
Simisage B to B+
Avalugg B- to B
Silvally-Ground B- to B
Ditto C+ to B-
Silvally-Grass C+ to B-
Silvally-Poison C+ to B-
Bibarel C to C+
Corsola C to C+
Furfrou C to C+
Glaceon C to C+
Vullaby C- to C
Hippopotas C- to C

Reasoning

Silvally-Dragon: Silvally-Dragon finds itself at an incredible spot in the current metagame due to its ability to break apart teams without a dedicated special wall thanks to STAB Draco Meteor and its access to Flamethrower to catch Dragon-type checks such as Bronzor, Mawile, and Granbull. This also means that Silvally-Dragon is great at grabbing momentum, as it can U-turn or Parting Shot against specially bulky walls. Moreover, Silvally-Dragon is an exceptional pivot thanks to its typing, which allows it to check top Pokemon such as Shiftry, Swanna, Rapidash, and so on. All these factors push Silvally-Dragon into A+.

Altaria: Altaria is back on the rise thanks to its great defensive utility in the current metagame because of its ability to check common Pokemon such as Combusken, Swanna, and Exeggutor. The advent of Altaria's Firium Z set also means it's a reliable Shiftry check on bulkier teams. Moreover, it's important to note that Altaria is one of few entry hazard removers that is immune to Toxic Spikes, which is incredibly common.

Leafeon: It should not be a surprise to see Leafeon, a Pokemon that has been trending up, to rise to A-. Leafeon's fantastic natural physical bulk, Speed, and ability to setup make it a very reliable offensive Pokemon. It's hard to compare the defensive utility Leafeon brings as an offensive Pokemon as it can check Golem, Shiftry, Electivire, Torterra, and other common Pokemon and still be a potent threat offensively.

Mawile: Should be a surprise here either as Mawile is one of the only Stealth Rock users that can check reliably check Shiftry, and it has also been enjoying the uptick in Leafeon and Z-MM Swanna.

Marowak: Marowak is another great Stealth Rock user; its fantastic ability to break through slower teams and threaten most other entry hazard setters is incredible. Moreover, Marowak's ability to trade with and/or force out physical attackers such as Electivire, Bouffalant, Silvally-Dark, and Combusken give it solid utility as a rocker.

Silvally-Dark: Silvally-Dark has incredible utility in this metagame thanks to its ability to soft check Shiftry and most Psychic-types as well as it being able to threaten Bronzor, something other Silvally formes typically cannot do. In addition, STAB Pursuit provides key support, allowing Silvally-Dark to reliable trap Psychic-types and slower, weakened foes.

Simisage: Simisage is a rising offensive threat; its ability to break apart teams and outspeed a number of threats thanks to its Speed tier make it tough to play around. With a mixed set, Simisage utilized its great coverage and offensive stats to threaten a wide range of Pokemon. Moreover, less Muk usage combined with its access to NP make it one of the tier's best stall breakers.

Avalugg: Avalugg really shines in this physically dominant metagame as it is able to blanket check most physical attackers, which is vital for bulkier teams. Avalugg also differentiates itself as an entry hazard remover thanks to its reliably recovery and utility, which makes it a great check to common entry hazard setters.

Silvally-Ground: Silvally-Ground provides great utility in checking Electivire, Golem, and Fire-types such as Combusken and Rapidash. Really solid Defogger in the current metagame that can also wear down typical Ground-type checks such as Leafeon, Altaria, and Rotom-S with Ice Beam.

Ditto: Ditto does Ditto things, and with the abundance of scary setup sweepers in the tier, it is a valued pick on a range of teams. It is also anti-offense to an extent in a metagame where offense is one of the top archetypes.

Silvally-Grass: Silvally-Grass is another good pick as a Defogger in the current metagame because of its ability to comfortably switch into Golem, Torterra, and Marowak. It also provides great defensive and offensive utility as a special attacking Grass-type that can pivot, which is nice for checking common threats such as Leafeon and Simipour.

Silvally-Poison: Despite a poor showing in ZUPL, Silvally-Poison is a decent pick as a Silvally forme because it absorbs the extremely common Toxic Spikes and can switch into Fighting- and Grass-type coverage in one slot. In addition, Silvally-Poison is fairly flexible; it can adjust its coverage and stat spread to the team it's on in order to better cover different threats.

Bibarel: Simply put, Bibarel is better than the Pokemon in C rank. Bibs is a menace on Screens HO thanks to Swords Dance alongside Simple, its solid Speed tier, and great STABs. Moreover, decreased Gourgeist-XL usage and offensive Pokemon being easy to take down with +4 Aqua Jet or Quick Attack really helps Bibarel.

Corsola: Corsola is one of the few consistent checks to Swanna, and is surprisingly a solid special blanket check in the tier. In addition, access to reliable recovery as well as having Regenerator give Corsola considerable longevity.

Furfrou: While the Cotton Guard Rest set has died down, Choice Band has put Furfrou back on the map. Its Speed tier, solid power and bulk, and ability to pivot make CB Furfrou a fantastic offensive check to Swanna, Shiftry, Expert Belt Electivire, and the Simis.

Glaceon: No surprise to see Glaceon get better with teams packing less sturdy Ice-type resists or on at all. Glaceon's solid enough Speed tier and monstrous power help give it a niche over other breakers even though it can be more difficult to fit onto teams.

Vullaby: Vullaby is another relatively solid Pokemon for what it's worth; checking Exeggutor, non-Stone Edge Torterra, Kadabra, and other attackers make it a viable pick for certain teams. Moreover, Vullaby is one of the few Defoggers that can reliably Defog on Bronzor and/or beat it down with STAB Knock Off.

Drops

Pinsir A+ to A
Muk A to A-
Mr. Mime A- to B+
Poliwrath A- to B+
Machoke B+ to B
Zebstrika B+ to C+
Gabite B to C
Hakamo-o B to B-
Metang B to B-
Misdreavus B- to C+
Dusknor B- to C+
Grumpig B- to C+
Swoobat B- to C+
Arbok C+ to C
Noctowl C+ to C
Quilladin C+ to C
Smeargle C+ to C
Flareon C to C-
Leavanny C to UU
Masquerain C to UU
Slaking C- to UU
Sliggoo C- to UR

Reasoning

Pinsir: Pinsir has seen a decline in the current metagame as it is less consistent due to meta trends such as Swanna being dominant and other Pokemon such as Shiinotic, Choice Scarf Electivire, Rotom-S, Mawile, and so forth being so popular. SD has noticeably fallen off as a stallbreaker since bulkier teams tend to pack Dusclops, Avalugg, and/or Poliwrath to reliably check it. Z-Me First faces similar issues but is also pressure by offensive Pokemon and can lack setup opportunities.

Muk: The abundance of offensive Ground-type Pokemon such as Golem, Marowak, and Torterra, the popularity of Mareanie and Steel-type Pokemon such as Bronzor and Taunt Mawile, and the threat of common Psychic-types such as Beheeyem and Kadabra give Muk a very difficult time in the current metagame. In addition, Grass-types such as Shiftry and Leafeon having a way around Muk in Knock Off and Breakneck Blitz diminishes its defensive utility as a bulky Poison.

Mr. Mime: Mr. Mime faces numerous issues in the current metagame, most notably its comparatively lower Speed and lack of physical bulk which makes it easy to revenge kill.

Poliwrath: Poliwrath is not necessarily on the level of A- anymore because of meta trends such as Swanna, Kadabra, Shiftry, Leafeon, and Shiinotic. Not mention that Mareanie is so popular.

Machoke: While Machoke is a relatively bulky Fighting-type, it faces similar issues to Poliwrath in that it is weak to so many attackers in ZU. Moreover, it has the unfortunate issue of being a Dark-type switch-in that can't really afford to take Knock Off.

Zebstrika: Zebstrika has really fallen off because teams usually resort to Choice Scarf Electivire as their "fast Electric-type" and Zebstrika's Speed tier is not necessarily that useful when its power leaves something to be desired. More specifically, Pokemon such as Purugly, Raichu, CB Furfrou, and Floatzel can check breakers above that Base 95-97 Speed tier, so Zeb has a difficult time justifying use.

Gabite: Gabite also has a difficult time justifying use over other Stealth Rock users such as Golem that can also check Fire-types. Moreover, Gabite provides comparatively less defensive utility and has a more difficult time punishing entry hazard removers. For example, mono-EQ with Toxic tends to make Gabite passive, and dual STABs takes away from Protect or Roar's defensive utility. Gabite is also relatively easy to wear down and check as a result.

Hakamo-o: Hakamo-o happens to share the unfortunate trait of being a Dark-type check that cannot really take Knock Off. It also has a real difficult time in a metagame filled with Swanna, Mareanie, Shiinotic, Mawile, Rotom-S. and so on.

Metang: It seems as though in this metagame, Metang is weak to most top or common Pokemon in some form. For example, entry hazard users such as Silvally-Water, Silvally-Dark, Silvally-Dragon, Silvally-Ground, Sandslash, and Rotom-S have an easy time vs Metang; entry hazard setters such as Golem, Torterra, and Bronzor force it out or can easily 1v1 it; Dark-types or Dark-type coverage is incredibly common; and offensive Pokemon such as Shiftry, Combusken, Rapidash, etc easily pressure Metang. On the other hand, Metang is usually a more niche option when it comes to checking Psychic-, Ice-, and Grass-type Pokemon. Too many weaknesses and little utility compared to the good things it does.

Misdreavus: Misdreavus is in a similar spot to Metang; Misdreavus's utility is much less valued in the current metagame and it often does not do much in games because a lot of Pokemon can pressure it. Moreover, Missy doesn't really check anything that other Pokemon don't already, so it often has a tough time fitting onto teams.

Dusknoir: While Trick Room has not really fallen off as of late, Dusknoir is becoming less and less of a premier TR setter because other TR setters such as Chimecho and Gourgeist-XL can set TR without taking up a Z-move slot and provide valuable defensive utility.

Grumpig: For a long time now Grumpig has lacked a worthwhile niche. While it can reliably check Combusken, other Psychic-types tend to eclipse Grumpig and other bulky Pokemon such as Mareanie, Altaria, and Lickilicky are better defensive Pokemon. Moreover, Grumpig's Speed tier and low physical bulk leave it weak to a plethora of physical attackers such as Shiftry, Bouffalant, and Torterra.

Swoobat: Swoobat drops to C+ because it is not consistent enough for B- and needs heavy team support to function, and it also does not appreciate meta trends such as Shiftry, Rotom-S, Bouffalant, and Silvally-Dark.

Arbok: Arbok is a pretty middling Pokemon; it does not have great Speed or Attack and relies on Coil to be effective. However, Arbok is noticeably less effective in a metagame dominated by Ground-types and faster breakers that limit its setup opportunities.

Noctowl: Noctowl faces similar fundamental issues to Arbok as a slower setup sweeper; much of the metagame heavily pressured and limits setup opportunities. Furthermore, Noctowl's low physical bulk and poor defensive typing exacerbate these issues as it is weak to top mons such as Electivire, Bouffalant, and Rotom-S.

Quilladin: Spikes stack has never really been good in ZU due to the tier's abundance of entry hazard removers and lack thereof to punish them. This means that Quilladin, a Pokemon whose niche centers around Spikes, is not really desirable in the current metagame. In addition, other bulky Grass-types such as Shiinotic, Leafeon, and Gourgeist-XL give Quilladin stiff competition as a Grass-type with defensive utility.

Smeargle: Smeargle stands atop the Sticky Web users, but Sticky Web as a playstyle is not too good right now with Swanna being top tier and other Pokemon such as Rotom-S and Altaria being solid entry hazard removers. There's also the fact that Screens HO is dominating the HO landscape and that it is much more consistent than Webs, so Smeargle falls off as a result.

Flareon: While Flareon is a powerful breaker, it is slow which means it's easily threatened by other breakers, and it also faces stiff competition from other Fire-types in the tier such as Combusken, Rapidash, and Simisear, all of which are faster and perform better offensively. Too many things from Swanna to Golem to Mareanie put a dent in Flareon's viability.

Leavanny and Masquerain: Smeargle is the superior Sticky Web setter and it has fallen off, so it makes sense that Leavanny and Masquerain, two Webs setters that still hold a slim, specific niche, to drop to UU.

Slaking: In a metagame filled with setup sweepers and superior offensive Pokemon, Slaking tends to be a high risk low reward type Pokemon. Aside from the fact that numerous Pokemon comfortably switch into Slaking and that Slaking is always forced to predict, Slaking simply needs a specialized build to function or even fit because of how niche of an option it is.

Sliggoo: Sliggoo arguably lacks a niche worth using in the current metagame. It is an Eviolite-reliant Dragon-type which means it is weak to Grass-type Knock Off users (Shiftry and Leafeon, which are arguably the top two) and is incredibly passive and easy to check which leaves Sliggoo very easy to take advantage of. On top of that, there are other bulky Pokemon such as Altaria, Silvally-Dragon, Mareanie, etc that may not commonly run setup sets, but do provide similar defensive utility.

Keep in mind that these changes were made before Shiftry was banned, so obviously the metagame will look different and certain noms may change in the next slate.

 

[275p]

Hello buddy boys and buddy girls!

I just wanted to make a nomination, since it has been a while since I've done so! I want to nom:

Maractus UR-->UU

Now you may be wondering, why I'd nom Maractus of all pokemon. Well let me explain. Shiftry was a dominant force under sun and was either used as a SD or Growth Sweeper. But with it now being banned, I'll believe that Maractus can take the spot as a Growth sweeper. Why you may ask?

First of all Maractus is under sun fast enough to outspeed Scarf Electivire.

Secondly after one Growth, Maractus is able to threaten most of its opponents with a strong Solar Beam. The calcs are at the end of this post.

Third, it has good mixed offenses with 86 and 106, so it can also be played mixed. The offenses are further boosted by Growth.

Lastly while Maractus's movepool may not be the best, it has enough that it can be played mixed. It can either run Knock Off against Bronzor and Metang or Drain Punch against Bouffalant and Lickilicky.

Here's the set that I used on ladder:

The Set

Maractus @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Growth
- Knock Off/ Drain Punch

Solar Beam is used for Stab and hits anything that doesn't resist it very hard. After one Growth, Solar Beam is even able to 2KO powerfull special walls like Lickilicky, Komala and even Regiice! Hidden Power Ice is mostly for coverage, allowing it to hit other grass and flying types like Gourgeist, Leafeon, Rotom F and Ninjask. On the last slot, you can either go for Knock Off against Bronzor or Drain Punch against Licky and Bouff.

Now let me show you some calcs:

Calcs

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Maractus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Fan: 278-328 (91.4 - 107.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Maractus Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Regice: 239-282 (79.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 4 Atk Life Orb Maractus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Bronzor: 242-286 (76.1 - 89.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 4 Atk Life Orb Maractus Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bouffalant: 260-307 (65.9 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 4 Atk Life Orb Maractus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Metang: 216-255 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Maractus Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Komala: 329-387 (98.5 - 115.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Maractus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gourgeist-Super: 372-439 (99.4 - 117.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Maractus Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Dusclops: 234-277 (82.3 - 97.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Now as you can see by the calcs, Maractus is able to 2 KO a lot of our pokemon in the meta, without any problems. Now you may think that Ivysaur or Weepinbell might be suited better as a growth sweeper. But both of them have a lower Spatk than Maractus, which gives them problems in breaking pokemon like Licky, unless they hold a z crystal or a Lo.

Replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1001111812

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1001049390

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1001113625

Now I know the replays aren't exactly high ladder, but they do show how strong Maractus is. Of course it is not able to threaten poison types like Muk, which is why Exegcutor is a good partner for Maractus, since Eggy takes care of poison types. Now I know that Maractus can only function on sun, but I believe that it has a legitimate niche as a growth Sweeper, now that Shiftry is gone.

 

[Sputnik]

Well, this thread has been dead for long enough since the Shiftry ban and I'm searching for reasons not to study for my Geology exam, so let's get some conversation going in here.

Obviously the Shiftry ban has really shaken things up in the meta, so big drops and rises are to be expected in the coming months. I'm going to address a bunch of mons that I personally feel should rise/drop, and hopefully kick start some conversation in here.

Rises

Combusken: A+ -> S

Combusken is just insane right now. Swanna might be the best Pokemon in the tier (in my opinion at least) but Busken is definitely a strong second. The departure of Shiftry helped out a bit, as Busken was frail enough that recoil from Flare Blitz and the like would often take it into Sucker Punch range. The Z-Move sets can break almost anything, and mixing and matching coverage moves to deal with certain threats is always an option; Thunder Punch for Mareanie, for example. The power of a +2 Inferno Overdrive also can allow it to slug through many of its "Checks" and revenge killing it with your scarfer can be hard due to Protect Mindgames. This thing is ludicrously good right now, and it deserves the S rank if you ask me despite not quite being on the same level as Swanna.

Exeggutor: A -> A+

So, what exactly switches into this thing? It's a supremely powerful wallbreaker with a STAB combination that can hit the majority of the metagame for Neutral Damage, and most Pokemon that do resist both are too frail to confidently switch in anyway. Even stops like Bronzor can be seriously annoyed by Sleep Powder, which is run a lot. Both Grassium and Specs sets are incredibly scary, OTR sets don't have to run Colbur now that Public Enemy #1 has been dealt with, and LO sun sets are not only powerful but also fast enough to outrun a bunch of our slower choice scarfers. It's not unstoppable of course, as its speed and typing can allow it to be taken advantage of, but it is absolutely a top threat that needs to be heavily prepared for right now, and in my opinion it deserves a rise to A+

Sandslash: B -> B+

I really like Sandslash right now. Having both Rocks and Rapid Spin on the same set is obviously a boon, and Sandslash has the bulk to back it up. It does a nice job against many of our physical attackers and can really annoy a lot of things that might want to try to take advantage of it with Toxic. Then of course a nice old STAB Earthquake means that it's not totally passive either. Competition with Marowak might dissuade some people but Leftovers recovery, Rapid Spin, and a higher Speed Stat all come in handy. It's not perfect of course, but it's a nice choice right now and I think it deserves to move up a rank.

Bibarel: C+ -> B-

This thing did not rise enough.

Once Bibs sets up its an absolute nightmare to deal with. Screen teams are a decent choice right now, and Bibarel has become a staple of the playstyle. Defensively checking this thing is very hard unless you are packing something like Dusclops or Pyukumuku, and those mons really only work on Stall. Balance and more offensive playstyles are in for a really rough time. With the aid of screens it can set up on a decent amount of the metagame, and once it has set up get ready. Silk Scarf sets and LO+Crunch variants can both be huge boons to any HO team in need of a decent breaker/sweeper, and I don't think that C+ really justifies what this beaver can do in the right hands.

Onix: UR -> UU

Has a tiny but real niche as a Sun Setter for full sun teams thanks to its ability to outrun things like Toucannon, Torterra, Marowak and Rampardos that would otherwise prevent Golem from getting both Sun and Rocks (or in the case of a few of these, Sun at all) up. It's a small niche but it does legitimately exist.

Drops

Mawile: A- -> B+

I think y'all can guess where this is going.

Mawile was a casualty of the "HELP WE NEED TO BEAT SHIFTRY" train that took over ZU in the months leading up to it's ban. Mawile is by no means bad, but one of its perks was being a rocker that offered nice role compression in the effort to beat Shiftry. It still has great physical bulk, but now the competition from things like Bronzor is real, and that SpD stat is exploitable as always. I don't think its a bad choice at all, but I also think that A- might be overselling it's value in the current meta.

Shiinotic: B+ -> B-

This nom is slightly similar to Mawile, except for the fact that Mawile had a real niche before Shiftry got out of hand.

Shiinotic's niche WAS being a somewhat similar mon to Gourgeist-XL that could also beat Shiftry, which is why it found its place on many squads that would otherwise benefit more from the presence of the Pumpkin. Now, I'm not advocating for dropping this thing into oblivion now; it actually got some decent exploration during this time period and it does have a few perks over Gourg. STAB Moonblast coming off that decent SpA is a decent perk, Spore is fantastic, and Effect Spore can come in clutch. But seriously, Gourgeist does the bulky Grass better now that Shiftry is gone. Shiinotic has some perks, but not enough to keep it in B+.


Other Points of Discussion that I'd like to see but I don't know enough about to nom.

Potential Rises: Gourgeist-XL, Bronzor, Kecleon, Dusclops, Cacturne, Misdreavus, Grumpig, Duosion

Potential Drops: Fightingvally, Monferno, Machoke, Trash-Wormadam

Also this isn't a huge deal but Swoobat is still in B- on the VR when it got shifted to C+ in the last VR shift. Figure it's a small fix that just got overlooked so I figured I'd point it out.

Thanks for reading my ramblings y'all. Time to study.

 

[Rav3]

GEN 7 CIAO

Some noms and some opinions on the slate, can't really be fucked to go into massive depth into most of them, as I think a few are really self explanatory.

Slash > B+; agree, this thing offers soooooo much utility and spins on the two best rockers in Golem and Bronz
Eggy > A+; also agree, when supported well and played right, can run through teams. Also has about 3 viable sets which is kinda neat too
Mawile > B; B not B- imo, no shiftry = less of a niche and better rockers. Still a decent mon just not anywhere near deserving of A ranks now
Shiin> B-; see above
Onix, Combusken, Bib (gourg is viable again) and Maractus are hard disagrees from me.

GourgXL > A+; checks sooooo many mons, back to dominant physical wall in the tier with ya boy Shiftry gone.
Pinsir > A-; god damn this mon is hard to use well and requires a ton of support. BUT has two crazy destructive sets that can make it worthwhile
Rapidash > A-; kinda lost some shine with Shiftry leaving
Fightvally > A-; see above
Floatzel > B; LOOOL VROS this thing is legit pretty bad. Has some niches but god damn it just use Swanna or Watervally
Watervally > A; its the double bird meta now my friends with busken and swanna both disliking this Silvally, I think its neck and neck with dragonvally and darkvally as the best silvally formes IMO.
Poliwrath > A-/A; this little tadpole is legit super underrated rn with three great sets (resttalk, subpunch and special tank) and one niche set. With shiftry gone and cacturne generally still pretty arse, this thing is a real fav of mine these days. Pairs so well with so many fellow meta staples (bronz, darkvally yada yada).
Darkvally > A; this thing is good, and with shiftry leaving even less competition for a dark slot. Make the most of Purusit before gen 8. Fuck u GF
Groundvally > B+; amazing defensive pivot, just make sure to use it with something that abuses Bronz and profit
Ditto > B+; OML i love this little blob, seems like a drastic nom but try it and see for yourself, this thing has literally made a playstyle viable again. Just wish I got on the train a while ago. Mightve saved me the worst ZUPL record ever recorded.
Jumpluff > B; good grass type, so many options and never has a bad mu depending on the set.
Corsola > B; Good mon but makes team building hard as it leaves a few holes in the team, but can run physdef or spdef equally viably. What else consistently can check the swan.
Furf > B+; seriously good pivot, great speed, great ability. Its an offensive mon when banded that can check so many threatening meta staples. Go figure
Cacturne > B-; still not great but actually has a niche now, spikes are kinda shit but masssssive attack stats. Can cheese unprepared or faulty teams
Machoke > C+; completely outclassed now, no reason to use. Goodbye cruel world
Butterfree/Haka/Carbink/Electrode/Ori Baile/Swoo > Lower; How in gobos good grace are these mons this high. Most have one niche small role (screens setter, shit qd sweeper, tr rocks setter, etc), time for a large slide down the VR. All look more suited in C ranks in reality.
Dusknoir/Lyc/Armaldo/Zeb > also lower; trash mons welcome to C ranks
C; too much trash, I feel like at the end of the gen we should be able to reduce the size of a VR greatly to give a way more accurate version of the meta game, we've had it for long enough to know. As a result, without exaggeration half these mons should be removed (whilst some still have a niche)

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

First VR noms post Shift ban! Gonna respond to some things that have been said and nom some of my own.
Lets get into it!

Rises:

Bibarel: C+ to B-

Can't stop won't stop nomming Bib to get out of C ranks. While the current meta does have a lot of grasses and electrics that threaten it, Bib threats harder back if it gets a single SD off. Both screens and some HO love how it can late game sweep or at the least midgame dent mons. More so, it's way ahead the potential viability of anything in C+, and is easily the most unique and threatening.

Sandslash: B to B+

Slash started off as what I'd call "noob bait" because it was very easy to role compress slash as a rocker and spinner, which is easily its worse set. Instead, most teams benefit doing one or the other, and its base 65 speed lets it spin on most slower rockers. Its combo of EQ / Knock / Toxic means nothing really wants to switch in on it, and it's doing a great job for its hazard control. It spins / SRs on a ton of offensive mons that can't 2HKO it and is a great Volt immunity. It's easily a B+ mon and is only limited by its mono Ground typing and lack of a good ability.

Silvally-Dark: B+ to A-

Silvally-Dark makes itself noteworthy as an A rank mon thanks to Dark being a much more valuable type post Shift. Offensively, the strong Dark stab of Multi Attack is neutral on a ton, and being able to Pursuit support both specific mons like Bronz and Kadabra or just in general for weaker mons is great. It supports the Psychics of the tier while also being an offensive Psychic immunity, meaning specs Egg or Beh will always have a 50 / 50 to press Psychic or not against you. Its natural bulk is great too, so much so that its a Swanna check with Tbolt if Ev'd right. Just a solid, super meta relevant mon.

Silvally-Electric: C+ to B- / B

We've seen a lot of Silv-Electric use lately, and it's no surprise; strong boltbeam coverage with a high speed and stats is great. Unlike say special Vire, Silv-Elect has a ton of good natural bulk and can both Defog and physically pivot with U-Turn. It happily fits Boltbeam coverage naturally, which threatens most SR setters and the tspike setter Mare. It also fits great on semi popular double Electric teams that love the extra coverage and power it provides. Totally should belong with Silv-Poison and Grass, if not above.

Silvally-Ground: B to B+

Last Silvally I promise lol. The Ground typing gives Silv a ton of good MU and without the need to run a Silv form to check Shift I know this mon can put in a ton of work. Even with just Multi/Uturn/Ice Beam with uninvested attacking stats is great for what its worth. A great pivot thats immune to Volt and isn't 1hko'd by Ice Punch either, it supports teams very well.

Exeggutor: A to A+

Egg has proven to be able to take off so much from teams with the right set and MUs. VoltTurn teams offer a great option to get Egg in safely, and once in it can be guaranteed a KO at best, and a 50/50 at worst. It is lacking a good list of switch ins, as even a mon like Bronz can be put to sleep and Pursuit trapped. It's an A+ worthy mon that every ZU builder has to be weary off, and any player should have a strong recommendation on how to play with / around this threat.

Furfrou: C+ to B-/B

Furf is the new face of VolTurn, as its phenomenal speed, spamable Normal stab, and great natural Phys bulk make it a must have. After rocks, a CB return snags so many 1hkos on offensive mons, and many teams have been able to pull it off. With teams like Tack's new sample submission, we're seeing its fitting on a lot of places as a good speed check. It's great for late game too as most physical scarves can't break it, and can afford to run Sucker because it already does its job so well with just U-turn/Return. Great mon, get it out of C+.

Poliwrath: B+ to A-

The new meta has been favorable to Poli, as Poli/Bronz/Tort cores are awesome now that Shift doesn't outright break them. Poli is an excellent blanket phys wall with a ton of versatility, and now can be considered a proper Knock switch in with Shift outa here. The viability of these new popular cores and makes Poli totally an A- mon.

Drops:

Floatzle: A- to B/B-

There is just no good reason for Float to be anywhere near A. It's power is heavily reliant on its item, which isn't that strong to begin with. It is awfully frail, and for a speed check that can't even beat Swann most of the time (HP elect? lol) it's often a waste for the role. It can't even check Busk that reliably, as Busk can scout the Aqua Jet, and a Float locked into a 40 bp stab is not a good spot to be in. The rise of bulky waters, grasses, and more electric usage all hurt Float. This is not the meta that would make it appropriate for A- at all.

Monferno: B+ to B

A small drop, but Monf has a hard time distinguishing itself on teams when it competes with better rockers, pivots, and Fire types. It's utility as a rocker with instant recovery isn't too special when it's not capitalizing on anything that good, and it lost the main mon it checked with Shiftry leaving. Offensive sets are also easily outclassed by Busk, so whatever viability its left with is as niche glue on teams that are getting more and more outdated.

Golem-Alola: B to C+/C

Steel trapping time and time again has failed to be that worthwhile. One of the best steels, Bronz, is trapped almost just as well as Silv-Dark, which brings much more utility to the team + allows you to have the regular Golem as well. Golem-A fails against teams without Steels as is, and again the CB sets are 100% outclassed by regular CB Golem. It has a small window of viability that should not be taken seriously most of the time.

Oricorio: B- to C+

The offensive power of Fire/Flying stabs is not worth the lackluster speed and x4 SR weakness. Ori requires a ton of support and is failing to do much of anything on teams defensively. It should be seen as a niche option as a strong special attacker, but the fact that it is so unreliable makes it not worth it most of the time.

Grumpig: C+ to C-/UR

Grump fails to do much of anything on teams, and is a waste of the valuably offensive Psychic typing. It needs so much physical bulk to be a proper Fire check to SD Combusken that it is worthless past that, and a mon like Mare is almost always better. It pretty much is as worthless as Oranguru when compared to our much more viable offensive and defensive psychics, and Grumpig sticks out on the VR like a sore thumb when you realize it's not doing anything you'd want it to do.

Rapidash: A to A-

I agree with this because Rapi does have problems justifying itself on teams where usually better speed checks are available. Still has a great offensive and supportive movepool and is a very viable Z move user, yet I see it more as a sidegrade to Simisear than an upgrade.

Maw and Shi: To B+ and B

Physical walls that totally lost the reason why they were nommed up a partial ranking in the first place now that Shift is gone. The new meta favors bulkier phys walls with better typings, but of course the remaining unique traits with these two are still worth considering (just not as much).

 

[Greybaum]

I'm throwing my hat in the ring one last time, and I'll be doing it in two sections.

First, archetypes.
If you're reading this, you're probably familiar with the concept of Stall, Balance, Hyper Offence etc., but there's a few additional sub-archetypes which Pokemon are either restricted to or at the very least perform far better on than in any other archetype. I'll be covering these first, because I think it's important to consider these Pokemon in groups rather than individually if you want to appropriately reflect the meta.

So, Screens and Trick Room are all currently ranked at B-. I'm judging this based off the fact that Electrode, Dugtrio and Carbink are all B-; they're either unusable outside of the above archetype or at the very least are less viable (see: offensive Electrode/Dugtrio). I already went into this a bit in my previous VR post where I nommed down Dusknoir to C+ however I think it's time to go a bit more in-depth.

Dusknoir: While Trick Room has not really fallen off as of late, Dusknoir is becoming less and less of a premier TR setter because other TR setters such as Chimecho and Gourgeist-XL can set TR without taking up a Z-move slot and provide valuable defensive utility.

C- to C+
After reading the above quote, this should speak for itself. Chimecho is now at the same level as Dusknoir when it comes to Trick Room teams and deserves to be ranked accordingly. Healing Wish is really nice and Chimecho has some solid bulk to back it up. If all that wasn't enough, Shiftry's gone.

C+ to B-
I think Rain teams are of the same general level of viability as Trick Room and Screens are, even if the latter is slightly better than the former two.
Being mandatory for the archetype, Volbeat deserves a rise.

C+ to B-
While Bibarel isn't strictly necessary on screens, you do have to question why you'd bother running it without Bibarel, considering how it is absolutely by far the best set-up sweeper for the style.

Unranked to C / C+
I just want to show my support for Onix. A notably higher speed tier and access to Taunt makes Onix just outright better than Golem on Sun teams, especially when factoring in the large number of Sun-centric Pokemon that struggle with Stealth Rock. Sun isn't especially great, which is why C+ is the highest I'd go, but if council thinks Golem is a suitable alternative I can understand C as well.
Let's not try and slowly inch it up the VR; realistically we only have one update left and there's no time for that. Put this straight in C/C+ where it deserves to be from the get go.

:meowstic-m: C to Usually Useless
How often is this better than Electrode? I'm sure someone could make it fit (even if I've never seen it), but the same is true of Slaking/Shedinja stall and Masquerain/Leavanny Webs. Meowstic-M is, true to the category's name, Usually Useless.

Now for the hottest take (so far).
C+ to B
Webs are, in my own opinion, better than any of the above archetypes. Ho3nConfirm3d in particular has shown off a level of consistency and excellence that simply has not been met by Rain, Trick Room or any other "gimmick" style of team. Shuckle, despite all the protests one woeful artist might make, is the life and blood of webs and as a result I firmly believe that Shuckle deserves its place in the B tier. Yes, it only has one viable set, and yes, it's not splashable, but as an absolutely mandatory member of Sticky Web teams I argue that B is the correct placement for a Pokemon that can only be adequately described as the flagbearer of webs teams everywhere. Also Purugly is already in B hello??

B+ to A-
With the absence of Shiftry, there's virtually no cost to running this Pokemon, provided you've allocated an acceptable amount of defensive support (i.e. use it on Stall teams). This Pokemon deserves to be in A- alongside Lickilicky and Pyukumuku because honestly while none of them alone are mandatory for stall you're building around at least one of them.

C+ to C
Armaldo is only usable on Rain and quite honestly not even very good there. No way it deserves to be higher than Beartic.
Huntail and Misdreavus simply aren't good enough outside of screens and are barely decent inside it.

Keep this Pokemon in B at the very least. It's an incredible partner for Grass-types and Psychic-types, notably allowing Leafeon to run Double-Edge and Exeggutor/Beheeyem to spam STAB moves virtually for free. The niche is somewhat taken by Silvally-Dark, as stated by Ho3nConfirm3d who referenced it beating Bronzor, but the ability to delete Mawile is especially valuable to Leafeon and the additional wallbreaking potential puts Alolan Golem ahead for a lot of teams. Yes, Kantonian Golem is better overall as a Choice Band user and Silvally-Dark is better in most matchups where a Bronzor does not exist thanks to general utility and offensive pressure, but Alolan Golem's niche of doing both at once is extremely valuable if only because of how much compression this truly is in a tier where that kind of thing tends to be fairly important.

Now onto the standard noms.

C+ to C-
Regigigas just isn't that good at stallbreaking and hasn't been relevant in a long time.

A+ to S.
Combusken is the same amazing wallbreaker it's been for a while now and to be honest not much has changed there. What has changed, however, is Shiftry's absence makes it a lot easier to prep for Swanna, and I believe that the gap between the two pokemon has notably shrunken. I could argue for Swanna to drop, but instead I think it's more accurate to say that Combusken is a cut above Electivire, Golem, Komala and Silvally-Dragon because quite frankly it is. Komala struggles to work defensively now and has to compete with other wallbreakers like Eggy for team slots, Golem is facing increased competition from Torterra, Sandslash etc., Electivire mandates far more team support and Silvally-Dragon doesn't deserve to be in A+ in the first place lmao. Comparatively, Combusken can bypass common forms of speed control on its own, breaks through checks like Mareanie if given enough support and is one of the most reliable win conditions around.

Speaking of which,
Dragon A+ to A
I'm sorry but this mon is just generally underwhelming, with Draco Meteor narrowly missing kills on the likes of Rapidash and making me see this thing as a terribly shaky check to everything it tries to check. I know it just rose but I'm petitioning to lower it again because despite how useful it is on paper as a fire/water/electric check it really struggles to be any of those things due to the relatively low power behind Draco Meteor and how spread thin its bulk is when you're pouring all your energy into making Silvally as strong as it possibly can (which is typically 97% of everything frail mon's health.

252 SpA Silvally-Dragon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rapidash: 207-244 (76.3 - 90%)
252 SpA Silvally-Dragon Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Mareanie: 190-225 (62.7 - 74.2%)

252 SpA Silvally-Dragon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Golduck: 205-243 (68.1 - 80.7%)
252 SpA Silvally-Dragon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Electivire: 219-258 (75.2 - 88.6%)
252 SpA Silvally-Dragon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golem: 244-288 (81 - 95.6%)
like seriously look how disappointing this pokemon is it kills like nothing without chip. pokemon with any form of healing wall it and every offensive pokemon just trades with it at no cost
obviously you don't always want to trade with it and that's why it's worthy of A but it's nowhere near as good as the pokemon in A+ lol

C+ to Unranked
Remove this garbage. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Also use this as background music for the rest of my noms.

C to Usually Useless
Checks Exeggutor which is nice but it's very bad especially with Shiftry gone. Can probably work on some stall teams about as well as Alolan Grimer (put this in UU too tbh) but overall it's ass.

Agree with Floatzel, Oricorio, Rapidash and Mawile dropping.
B+ to B-
B isn't enough of a drop; it's as viable compared to Gourgeist-Super as Metang is to Bronzor. I really don't have much else to say, it's just really niche and generally not that good.

C+ to B
For sure. Ho3n covered the reasons nicely but this Pokemon is just really good right now if only because of how amazing its speed tier is.

Agree with Sandslash, Exeggutor and Silvally-Dark rising. Same with Silv-Ground and Corsola. Other noms are okay I guess. None I want to argue against anyway. With that said, I actually want to keep Machoke where it is - it's no longer the Fighting-type that loses to Shiftry and is all around an underrated mon.

Thanks for reading my half-assed 1AM ramblings love y'all also look how much harder I was trying at the start of this post when it was only like 11PM.

 

[Apagogie]

A final update will certainly be planned in the following days to take into account the shiftry ban and to slowly show the final stage of ZU. Here are my nominations. I think they give a good picture of the current meta.

Komala A+ -> A
This nomination shouldn't surprise anyone here. Komala has progressively declined during these last months and I think we got to a point where it is not justified anymore to keep it A+, a rank reserverd for the current top tiers. Komala Band, which was its best set until here, struggled to be an effective wallbreaker due to its lack of opportunities to come safely without being 2HKO by the opponent. It relies more an more on the support of its teammates to give it favorable conditions and this support is hard to provide because Komala struggles against the trends ; the rise of Gourgeist-Super, others more effective wallbreakers such as Furfrou or Beheeyem or simply the fact that it cannot be locked on Knock Off without being trapped by Vally-Dark behind. That is by the way an other point which makes Komala less effective, it can rarely click a move without having a drawback. The resists of its moves are common which mean you are rarely able to kill for free a mon of the opposite team. This mon is now based on correct predictions but it's not the reason why you use a wallbreaker, right ? It's also very inconsistent against stall since you have to spam u-turn to weaken Avalugg and Gourgeist-Super.

Other sets don't justify the A+ rank. Bulk Up Knock Off is probably the closer one but it still suffers from the same problems : it lets opponents set up for free (Crustle, Torterra, Combusken) and it's walled by common mons such as Mareanie Haze or Poliwrath which is also on the rise. The A rank is still a good place for Komala and to be perfectly honest, I think mons such as Mareanie Bronzor or Bouffalant are currently on the same level of viability or even more viable than the sleepy boy. Komala is not anymore an A+ mon in gen 7 ZU and should therefore drop in A.

Silvally-Fighting A -> A-
I feel that except Vally-Dark and maybe Vally-Dragon, other Vallys really struggle to be effective with their defog set these days. Silvally-Fighting is the perfect example of this. It lacks of general utility to be consistent. Since it doesn't have any longevity due to the lack of any way to restore some hp beside rest, mons such as Mareanie or Bronzor can eternally play around it until it faints. It's not something new but something has changed since the shiftry's ban : the meta likes more and more balanced teams. Silvally was the perfect mon for bulky offenses and had its apogee during the ZUPL where bulky archetypes except stall struggled. It is not the case anymore and it is now a mon which slowly but surely loses the interest of its bulky sets. The uncommon but threaten mons it was able to decently wall, such as pawniard or crustle, are now simply supported more effectively by their teammates which weaken Vally-Fighting until it is unable to handle the threat of the opposite team. This scenario happens many many times and it makes Vally-Fighting really inconsistent in its job.

It's also pretty obvious that the departure of Shiftry affects it more than any other Vally and the fact that Swanna is the best mon in the meta doesn't help it either. Generally speaking, it's hard to make a crazy team with a bulky Vally-Fighting inside and its offensive sets, even if good, lack of evidence to be considered in the A rank. For these reasons, a drop would be welcome.


Beheeyem A- -> A
Like Exeggutor, the ban of Shiftry has been very positive for Beheeyem. Vally-Dark should really be mandatory with Mareanie because otherwise this kind of mon gets a kill at every switch. A midground doesn't even exist because even if you are Vally-Dark or Bronzor, it has a move which is able to one shot you/2HKO you so you have to win a 50/50 or sacrifice a mon. The meta bulkier makes it better where it's able to always kill a mon except big misplay. Its usage is still low but it's one of the most threaten mon you can face in the A list where only Exeggutor or Bouffalant can pretend as much. It's better than the rest of the A- list where mons such as Kecleon, Pyukumuku, Simisear or Muk are globally less viable than Beheeyem. This mon takes advantage of a lot of trends and that's why it should be higher.

Torterra A- -> A
This nomination is maybe more personal so I will be a bit shorter here. Outside of the rise of Gourgeist which really sucks for it, I find offensive Torterra sets really good right now. This mon is really difficult to switch into because between Rock Polish, Sword Dance or Band sets, every playstyle is punished and Torterra has the necessary bulk to make it painful to revenge kill or even to kill. It is better than other mons in A- as well and that's why a rise looks deserved and should be considered.

 

[5gen]

Komala A+ -> A
This nomination shouldn't surprise anyone here. Komala has progressively declined during these last months and I think we got to a point where it is not justified anymore to keep it A+, a rank reserverd for the current top tiers. Komala Band, which was its best set until here, struggled to be an effective wallbreaker due to its lack of opportunities to come safely without being 2HKO by the opponent. It relies more an more on the support of its teammates to give it favorable conditions and this support is hard to provide because Komala struggles against the trends ; the rise of Gourgeist-Super, others more effective wallbreakers such as Furfrou or Beheeyem or simply the fact that it cannot be locked on Knock Off without being trapped by Vally-Dark behind. That is by the way an other point which makes Komala less effective, it can rarely click a move without having a drawback. The resists of its moves are common which mean you are rarely able to kill for free a mon of the opposite team. This mon is now based on correct predictions but it's not the reason why you use a wallbreaker, right ? It's also very inconsistent against stall since you have to spam u-turn to weaken Avalugg and Gourgeist-Super.

Other sets don't justify the A+ rank. Bulk Up Knock Off is probably the closer one but it still suffers from the same problems : it lets opponents set up for free (Crustle, Torterra, Combusken) and it's walled by common mons such as Mareanie Haze or Poliwrath which is also on the rise. The A rank is still a good place for Komala and to be perfectly honest, I think mons such as Mareanie Bronzor or Bouffalant are currently on the same level of viability or even more viable than the sleepy boy. Komala is not anymore an A+ mon in gen 7 ZU and should therefore drop in A.

While I see the reasoning behind the nomination and you bring up some good points, I still am surprised by the nomination because in my eyes Komala is trending up due to its ability to fill a variety of roles and run a multitude of sets effectively.

Choice Band Komala has always had the issue of being slower than other mid- to high-speed breakers such as Swanna, the Simis, Expert Belt Electivire, SD Leafeon, and so on. Moreover, I do agree that the rise of Gourgeist-XL (Avalugg) give Komala a harder time in the current metagame. However, I believe that your nomination fails to acknowledge just how effective offensive Komala can be in a metagame so focused around bulkier cores and overall slower teams. For one, CB Komala is one of the least prediction reliant Choice-item users in the metagame because of its ability to break down its switch-ins or simply pivot out on them with U-turn (and sure it's not breaking stall on its own, but between Comatose, U-turn, and powerful attacks, what can stall do to it outside of Rocky Helmet Avalugg?). Ghost-, Rock-, and Steel-type Pokemon have to watch out for Knock Off and Earthquake, which means that Komala can often break past typical Normal-type resists. In addition, Jolly CB Komala is able to catch so many of slower wallbreakers in the tier from Exeggutor to Toucannon to Marowak which is amazing right now.

One major critique you make is how CB Komala is still prediction reliant and can easily be punished. I think that logic applies to nearly every single Choice-item user in the tier, and it's especially notable that Electivire, the tier's most splashable Scarfer, is one of the most exploitable yet dangerous Choice users in the meta. To me this accurately fits CB Komala because really, Silvally-Dark is not going to pivot into a predicted Knock Off; more often than not it'll come in to Pursuit trap after a teammate has taken a CB Knock Off. Same logic applies to Golem, Gourgeist-XL, Avalugg, Machoke, etc. Everything that can take a coverage move has to watch out for CB Return off that high Attack.

In addition, one thing I want to stress is how Komala is one of the few Pokemon that can adapt to metagame changes. For example, let's say CB Komala is inconsistent, heavily prediction reliant, and easy to exploit due to having that Choice lock. What about SD? Even though it lacks a fourth coverage move, I've been finding considerable success with SD Komala because it's crazy strong, has enough Speed to naturally outspeed offensive Torterra, Poliwrath, Exeggutor, Beheeyem, etc, the coverage to body those slower Mareanie/Bronzor or Torterra/Poliwrath/Rotom-S or Bronzor/Torterra/Rotom-S or whatever non-Gourgeist-XL or Avalugg defensive backbones, and has Comatose to bypass the abundance of TSpikes and status in the metagame. In all honesty, I feel that looking at offensive Komala only through the lens of CB sells it short.

I agree Bulk Up Knock Off is a meh set in the current metagame, but I do feel that Wish Tect Spin Knock Off, AV, and even Scarf are each sets with their own niches that enable Komala to react and adapt to recent metagame trends. Wish Tect Spin Knock is pretty much the only remover that has no problem whatsoever with Bronzor+Mareanie, an entry hazards core that dominates the current metagame. Moreover, it's one of the more consistent answers to special attackers like Swanna, Silvally-Dragon, Rotom-S, etc and can run U-turn over Knock Off or Spin to be less passive. AV does similar things and can go up against most special attackers 1v1. On the other hand, Scarf is more of an anti-meta set to catch those more frail offensive Pokemon that would normally stay in on Komala, which seems like much of the meta rn.

 

[5gen]

With gen 8 closer and closer and the VR in need of an update, I'm going to set a deadline for noms: February 8th. After that, the council will take in all the noms since the last update and Shiftry ban. This will probably be the last major update for gen 7 ZU.

 

[Tuthur]

From C- to higher,

Set

Chimecho @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Toxic
- Recover
- Defog

Chimecho is an underexplored Pokemon in ZU outside of the TR set. I'm nominating it for another set, a defensive defog one. I was building a fat team arround Vigoroth, and I needed a Defoger that could handle Mareanie throughout a very long game. Chimecho has the advantage of being able to threaten Mareanie for a 2HKO with Psychic and being immune to Toxic Spikes. But Chimecho isn't just excellent against Mareanie, it is great against other common hazard setter such as Golem, Sandslash and Torterra thanks to Levitate.

Calcs

0 SpA Chimecho Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Mareanie: 206-246 (67.9 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Chimecho Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Mareanie: 134-158 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Sandslash Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chimecho: 116-138 (32.8 - 39%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Golem Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chimecho: 142-168 (40.2 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chimecho: 159-187 (45 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1001372344
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1001366445

Back to B-
Imo, Misdreavus should never have dropped in the first place. The biggest misconception about Misdreavus is that it needs Hex and is therefore unable to deal with Komala. However Foul Play Misdreavus is a thing, while it lacks power against Bronzor and Mareanie that Hex Misdreavus easily handle, it makes Misdreavus a bigger threat to more offensive teams. Misdreavus is able to take on a lot of common Defensive cores just with Taunt+Will O Wisp, and is to often overlooked as a Normal and Ground resist, that can threaten most common defensive cores.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1036096087 (prevents Golduck from setting up Rain and revenge kills Drifblim)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1035844176 (handles Swanna)

Rank it

Set

Solaroc (Solrock) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stealth Rock
- Morning Sun
- Psywave

I got initiate to this mon by Diagnostic during Frost meta, and from here it never disappointed me. Solrock is to often overlooked as a Rocker in profit for Bronzor. Solrock has several traits over it:
- it can handle Fire-types such as Rapidash and Combusken.
- while it also dislikes Knock Off, it isn't as much crippled as Bronzor by losing its item and can still handle Komala (252+ Atk Komala Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Solrock: 120-142 (31.3 - 37%) -- 76.1% chance to 3HKO).
- instant recovery makes it far less passive and harder to punish
- WoW is an incredible move (I handled Pinsir with this set).
Solrock is of course overall worse than Bronzor, but it keeps a niche over it, and the VR should reflect that.

Replay

This is one is old, but still displays Solrock main qualities.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-967749694

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

VR Noms Part 2: Introduction of the S- Rank

Electivire and Golem - A+ to S-: As ZU winds down, there is now denying how long and constantly these two mons have seen heavy usage, usually one if not both topping the usage stats by a decent margin. Their roles as the dedicated, well-known Choice Scarf or Stealth Rock user for teams have solidified themselves above the A ranks. So much of the meta is centralized in either being a deterrent to Vire or speed creeping and having super-effective coverage for Golem; it is reflected in all the sets and viability that comes with either having a Volt Switch immunity or a Speed that can afford to beat base 45. Centralization like this on top of their proven success makes me believe that What makes them not as significant as Swanna however is that their centralization makes them manageable, and some of their checks like Sandslash, Bronzor, and Gourgiest-Large can deal with most of what deviations that these two can have to offer, whereas Swanna's checks are left hoping its either physical or special and not the other. That, and Swanna's extra Speed and boosting capabilities make it harder to check offensively. So while Swanna is in a tier of its own with its unresisted dual STAB, Golem and Vire still ought to have similar recognition.

Shuckle - C+ to B-: Sticky Webs works fine enough in ZU, and Shuckle is the proven go-to setter. Its Infestation into Encore trap is very dangerous, and many leads and removers have a hard time dealing with it. It even got a little buff near the end of the gen with Custap Berry, which with the right investment and Sturdy can be very easy to trigger to have an Encore or hazard later in the game. If Carbink is fine for B-, I don't see whats the problem with comparing the two integral setters for their niche HO teams.

Silvally-Fighting - A to A-: Another nom that is partially because Shiftry left, Silv-Fight is just not as splashable or worthwhile. It now competes with Poliwrath, which I also believe is A- worthy, now that its neutrality to Grass isn't as special, as well as more popular Silv forms. Silvally-Dragon, -Water, and -Dark are finding more and more uses on teams, and can offer more or less than Fightvally in the defensive utility department. There's just a lot more viable competition that makes Fightvally less popular and worthwhile.

Grimer-Alola - UR to C/C+: This mon has long been in the works, and has a legit anti-meta presence. Its typing allows it to switch into Egg, Kadabra, Beh, and absolutely wall Bronzor, while having access to both Pursuit and Knock Off. It's actually decently strong, and with Poison Touch + Poison Jab can status and wear down a lot of neutral attackers. Its one of the best Psychic checks in the meta because of this, and can offer more invaluable Knock Off support now that STAB users are limited to Pawniard otherwise. Its good well-rounded bulk means that it can trade hits with Silv-Dragon, Silv-Water, and Simisage while it has this aforementioned Poison Jab to threaten them, and even Shadow Sneak if the target's low enough. It's an easy mon to fit on teams thanks to this support, and ought to be given serious consideration for what its worth, as countering some of the best and popular top tiers is nothing to scoff at.


My old noms I believe are still valid and summarize my experiences well. I just thought I'd bring the S- possibility up for discussion, and everything else seems to be covered in my opinion.

 

[sketchy ecchi]

Here’s my shot at vr noms, ZU’s seen a ton of changes over the past while so I think the VR needs to change accordingly. I’ll briefly explain some of my noms here:

Combusken’s always been top tier and although recent changes aren’t necessarily beneficial to it, I think its still worthy of sharing the S rank. Any team without Mareanie or another fat fire resist is getting destroyed by SD, but I think what a lot of people forget is how scary its special set is. Its unreliable accuracy aside it can 2hko just about the entire tier bar Muk, Altaria, and Dusclops (Mare is 2hkod by lo hp electric).

Shiftry leaving is a huge relief to a lot of defensive staples (Bronz, Mare, Gourg, Clops) as well as Exeggutor, and these were already great mons so I think they should rise.

Grimer-Alola is a cool mon that does more than trap Bronz and Eggy (which is in and of itself huge), but is also one of the few switch-ins Simisage and Cacturne has. Krokorok is really anti-meta as it can pursuit Bronzor and Electivire (making it a great partner for Swanna).

sketchy vr

S Rank

Swanna

Combusken from A+

A+ Rank

Electivire

Silvally-Dragon

Bronzor from A

Exeggutor from A

Gourgeist-Super from A

Mareanie from A

A Rank

Golem from A+

Komala from A+

Bouffalant

Crustle

Rotom-Fan

Kadabra from A-

Torterra from A-

Silvally-Dark from B

A- Rank

Pinsir from A

Rapidash from A

Silvally-Fighting from A

Kecleon

Leafeon

Lickilicky

Mawile

Muk

Pyukumuku

Simisear

Silvally-Water

Dusclops from B+

Simisage from B+

Pawniard from B+

Poliwrath from B+

Raichu from B+

B+ Rank

Altaria from A-

Beheeyem from A-

Floatzel from A-

Granbull

Marowak

Mr. Mime

Silvally

Simipour

Toucannon

Camerupt from B

Sandslash from B

Machoke from B

B Rank

Vigoroth from B+

Avalugg

Chatot

Golem-Alola

Purugly

Servine

Silvally-Ground

Golduck from B-

Dugtrio from B-

Furfrou from C+

Silvally-Electric from C+

B- Rank

Monferno from B+

Bellossom from B

Sawsbuck from B

Cradily

Ditto

Electrode

Fraxure

Jumpluff

Metang

Oricorio-Baille

Rampardos

Raticate

Silvally-Grass

Silvally-Poison

Swoobat

Basculin from C+

Cacturne from C+

Glaceon from C+

C+ Rank

Butterfree from B-

Carbink from B-

Bibarel

Corsola

Drifblim

Dusknoir

Grumpig

Huntail

Lycanroc-Midnight

Misdreavus

Ninjask

Probopass

Regice

Regigigas

Shuckle

Volbeat

Wishiwashi

Zebstrika

Smeargle from C

Trevenant from C-

Duosion from C-

Grimer-Alola from UR

C Rank

Shiinotic from B+

Armaldo from B-

Arbok

Beartic

Frogadier

Gabite

Gourgeist-Small

Hippopotas

Lapras

Murkrow

Natu

Noctowl

Stunfisk

Vibrava

Hakamo-o from B-

Wormadam-Trash from C-

Krokorok from UR

C-

Relicanth from C+

Vullaby from C

Munchlax from C

Meowstic-M from C

Quilladin from C

Chimecho

Flareon

Gogoat

Whirlipede from UU

Slaking from UU

 

[5gen]

As evidenced through recent posts, there are a lot of VR noms to make this time around. Gonna throw mine in before the thread gets locked some time this Saturday. Also going to steal sketchy's format. These are noms off the top of my head, so there are nominations in the thread that I still need to think about and Pokemon I need to test more thoroughly to be confident in before nomming one way or another (i.e Golduck rising, Dugtrio rising, Crustle dropping, etc).

quick noms

S Rank
Swanna
Combusken A+ to S

A Rank

A+

Bronzor A to A+
Electivire
Exeggutor A to A+
Golem
Komala
Silvally-Dragon

A
Bouffalant
Crustle
:Gourgeist-Super: Gourgeist-Super
Kadabra A- to A
Mareanie
Rotom-Fan
Silvally-Dark B+ to A
Torterra A- to A

A-
Altaria
Beheeyem
Dusclops B+ to A-
Kecleon
Leafeon
Lickilicky
Mawile
Muk
Pinsir A to A-
Poliwrath B+ to A-
Pyukumuku
Raichu B+ to A-
Rapidash A to A-
Silvally-Fighting A to A-
Silvally-Water
Simisage B+ to A-
Simisear

B Rank

B+

Floatzel A- to B+
Granbull
Marowak
Mr. Mime
Pawniard
Sandslash B to B+
Silvally
Silvally-Ground B to B+
Simipour
Toucannon

B

Avalugg
Camerupt
Chatot
Ditto B- to B
Furfrou C+ to B
Golem-Alola
Machoke
Purugly
Silvally-Electric C+ to B
Vigoroth B+ to B

B-

Bellossom B to B-
Cacturne C+ to B-
Carbink
Corsola C+ to B-
Dugtrio
Electrode
Fraxure
Glaceon
Golduck
Jumpluff
Metang
Monferno B+ to B-
Oricorio-Baille
Rampardos
Raticate
Sawsbuck B to B-
Servine B to B-
Shiinotic B+ to B-
Silvally-Grass
Silvally-Poison
Swoobat

C Rank

C+

Basculin
Bibarel
Butterfree B- to C+
Chimecho C- to C+
Cradily B- to C+
Drifblim
Dusknoir
Hippopotas C to C+
Misdreavus
Ninjask
Probopass
Regice
Shuckle
Volbeat
Wishiwashi
Zebstrika

C

Arbok
Armaldo C+ to C
Beartic
Duosion
Frogadier
Gabite
UR to C
:gourgeist-small: Gourgeist-Small
Huntail C+ to C
Lapras
Lycanroc-Midnight C+ to C
Murkrow
Natu
Noctowl
Regigigas C+ to C
Smeargle
Stunfisk
Vibrava
Vullaby

C-

Flareon
Gogoat
Hakamo-o B- to C-
UR to C-
:meowstic-m: Meowstic-M C to C-
Munchlax C to C-
Quilladin C to C-
Relicanth C+ to C-
Trevenant
Wormadam-Trash

D

Ampharos
Gothitelle D to UR
Grumpig C+ to D
Leavanny
Masquerain
Meowstic-F
Politoed
Shedinja
Silvally-Fire
Silvally-Ice D to UR
Slaking
Togetic
Whirlipede
Zweilous

reasoning

A+ to S
Combusken has clearly proven to be a top meta threat and a centralizing force above the rest of A+. SD Combusken necessitates bulky Fire-type switch-ins for non-offense teams and special Combusken can tear through would be checks such as Poliwrath, phys def Mareanie, Silvally-Water, and Sandslash. Moreover, Combusken is a cut above A+ imo because of how consistently threatening it is and how it can find setup opportunities (i.e checking things like Leafeon, Komala, Scarf Evire locked into Ice Punch, etc) to snowball.

A to A+
Bronzor is the top defensive Pokemon in the tier imo because of how much of the meta it can check and how it pairs so well with a variety of Pokemon. While it is passive and exploitable, I find that because Bronzor has a wide range of good teammates such as Silvally-Dark, Silvally-Fighting, Altaria, Swanna, etc, those two downsides can be remedied easily. Moreover, Bronzor forces teams to pack strong breakers with Dark- or Fire-type coverage because if something can't hit it for super-effective damage, chances are Bronzor will cripple it and switch into a teammate.

A to A+
This is no surprise considering how difficult it can be to prepare for Eggy between Specs, Grassium Z, and Sub Seed as well as how good Exeggutor is. Despite having numerous common weakness, Exeggutor has enough switch-in opportunities as it can come in against SR Torterra, Mareanie, and Golem. And when it comes in, little can comfortably switch into Eggy because of its monstrous power, STABs, and threat of Sleep Powder or Sub Seed.

A- to A
Kadabra is great glue for offensive teams as a revenge killer and insurance against physical sweepers like SD Combusken, Z-MM Swanna, SD RP Torterra, etc thanks to Sash Counter. In addition, I find Kadabra better than the rest of A- because of it's Speed, power, coverage, and Magic Guard enable it to check a lot of slower offensive Pokemon as well as Mareanie, Altaria, Poliwrath, and so on. Another notable thing about Kadabra is how its coverage helps it defend against typical Psychic-type switch-ins like Silvally-Dark and Bronzor. Being able to nail them with coverage or Counter against a Pursuit is huge and it's things like that that further separate Kadabra from other offensive Pokemon.

Silvally-Dark B+ to A
Silvally-Dark in this meta is like what Silvally-Fighting was in the Shiftry meta; it checks the plethora of Psychic-types and has immense utility. While it leaves a lot to be desired at times such as being easy to check defensively, Silvally-Dark is a premier support Pokemon in the tier and a lot of the time it just needs to check something, Pursuit trap, pivot around, and/or Defog. Moreover, Silv-Dark is one of the more splashable Silvally formes right now.

A- to A
Tort has proven to be a great Pokemon all around, from being a rocker to a wall to a breaker. Tort is crazy flexible and really its main drawback is low Speed because it can even break through Gourg-XL and Bronzor over the course of a game with SD Rockium and CB (Crunch to break Colbur). Better than all of A- and is a reason why a lot of things are good.

B+ to A-
Even with Silvally-Dark, Pawniard, Kecleon, and breakers such as Eggy, SD Combusken, Z-MM Swanna being as common as they are, Dusclops is a premier wall. It just walls so much and stalls out fat stuff like non-Knock Mareanie, Bronzor, Licky, Poliwrath, etc. Moreover, like Bronzor, Dusclops fits with a lot of Pokemon and its weaknesses are easy to patch.

A to A-
Has gotten worse with Poliwrath, Rotom-S, Gourgeist-XL, and Dusclops being relevant. Has limited setup opportunities as well with how offensive teams can be.

B+ to A-
Poliwrath has risen to prominence because of its ability to check Combusken, Normal-types, Golem, etc defensively and its special attacking sets make it a nice tank in this meta.

B+ to A-
NP Raichu really enjoys meta trends such as physically defensive Ground-types and Pokemon crowding up that base 95-105 Speed tier. Raichu checks a lot and as a result, can easily find setup opportunities and sweep once Scarfers are taken care of.

A to A-
The byproducts of a meta focused on checking Combusken and physical attackers such as more Water- and Ground-types make Rapidash worse.

Silvally-Fighting A to A-
I actually find Silvally-Fighting to be quite effective in the current meta because of the number of Normal- and Dark-types running around. Silv-Fighting still retains the ability to check those things, but the increase in Psychic-types, high Swanna, Mareanie, and Rotom-S usage make it worse than before.

B+ to A-
Simisage is an insane breaker in this metagame that little can switch into. Lower Muk and Silvally-Poison usage and more Ground-types really help Simisage shine. Mixed Simisage is one of the top revenge killers in the metagame because it can revenge kill Pokemon on both sides of the spectrum and pick switch-ins apart due to its great coverage and power.

B+ noms have been explained in the thread and I agree with them. Think Floatzel is better than what most people make it out to be because mixed is a real nice revenge killer and HP Electric can help Float wear down opposing Water-types.

Also agree with a Ditto rise with all the setup sweepers around and how valuable the utility Scarf Ditto can bring for teams. Agree with CB Furfrou to B, it's that good in this meta.

Silvally-Electric C+ to B
Man Silvally-Electric is fun to use. On top of checking Swanna, Mareanie, and Rotom-S and being able to pop Ground-types, Silvally-Electric is one of the best scouts in the meta imo. I honestly think that Protect+Toxic the best set it can run because BoltBeam coverage is amazing and scouting out Evire and being able to Toxic stall most Pokemon is amazing. Lotta utility for a Silvally forme that lacks the pure defensive utility that other types do

B to B-
I find that Bellossom is much less consistent in this metagame because of how common Bouffalant, Scarf Rotom-S, and Combusken are and because there are so many breakers that prevent Bellossom from setting up.

C+ to B-
Corsola is one of the only Pokemon that can reliably check Swanna and provide SR. In addition, Corsola checks a wide range of special attackers and walls a surprising amount of Pokemon and can form solid defensive backbones with Gourgeist-XL, Altaria, Rotom-S, etc.

B to B-
Servine is in a similar position to Bellossom for me in that there are so many Grass-type checks and is incredibly one-dimensional that it's p easy to check. Even as a Defogger I find that while it can check Torterra and Golem, it lacks the bulk to actually check things and as a result it opens up many weaknesses that you're forced to cover.

B- to C+
Lacks setup opportunities, is easy to check, and requires too much support for B- imo. I've really been wanting Butterfree to work and it hasn't been consistent in this meta because of all the faster Pokemon and revenge killers.

B- to C+
While Cradily is able to check Swanna, it's too passive and exploitable in this metagame to really do anything else effectively. Too many things take advantage of Cradily from Bronzor to Combusken to Komala and teams with Cradily usually end up being quite passive and easy to pressure. Worse than stuff in B- imo.

C to C+
Hippopotas has proven to be a staple on stall imo because every stall needs a Volt Switch absorber and there's none better than Hippo. It's also a fantastic blanket check for physical attackers.

C+ to C
There's little reason to use Armaldo in this meta and it is pressured and stopped by far too much to be effective enough for C+.

C+ to C
Similar reasoning as above

C+ to C
Advent of Torterra and the rise of Poliwrath, Bronzor, and Gourgeist-XL make it difficult for Lycanroc-Midnight to sweep. Furthermore, it really lacks setup opportunities in this meta and so RP sets are worse too.

B- to C-
Hakamo-o lost a big part of its niche when Shiftry got banned and there are much better setup sweepers, Fighting-types, and checks to Fire-, Grass-, and Dark-types than it. Is barely worth using and not that effective in the current metagame.

D to UR
No point in using this tbh. Even Meowstic-F outclasses

C+ to D
On paper Grumpig acts as a nice role compressor being able to switch into Fire-, Fighting-, Ice-, and Psychic-type attacks, but in practice it opens up so many holes and is dead weight most of the time. Lacks the physical bulk to even consistently check SD Combusken.

Silvally-Ice D to UR
Silvally-Electric completely outclasses imo

 

[275p]

Ok guys since this thread is still open I'd like to do one last nom:</p><p></p><p>Delcatty: UR--->UU

Delcatty hasa niche as a revenge killer, since it does have access to double priority with Fake Out and Sucker Punch. Coupled with the power of Silk Scarf and Normalize, Delcatty hits surprisingly hard and is able to revenge kill a ton of threats like Bibarel, Simipour, Electivire, Swanna, Raichu and Ninjask, once they're weakened. While it does have problems against ghosts, rock and steel types, you can easily play around the first two with Toxic, while steel types can be killed with trappers like Probopass and Golem A. Here is the set:

Delcatty @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Toxic
- Sucker Punch
- Double-Edge

With max attack and 252 speed, Delcatty hits really hard being able to outspeed threats like Fraxure, Beheeyem and Bibarel and finishing them both of with a strong Double-Edge, while faster mons are threatened by Delcatty's Fake out and Sucker Punch. Here are some calcs:

Calcs

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bibarel: 100-118 (33.4 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bibarel: 174-205 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 108-127 (41.3 - 48.6%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 186-220 (71.2 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Swanna: 97-115 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- 20.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Swanna: 169-199 (58 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Fraxure: 90-106 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Fraxure: 154-183 (56.4 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Electivire: 93-109 (31.9 - 37.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Electivire: 160-189 (54.9 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

As you can see, Delcatty is able to revenge kill a ton of common threats and therefore should be considered a place at the VR.

Here are some Replays:

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1047557315
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1046954948 (While I did lose, Delcatty was able to reliably kill Bibarel)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1045706772(I lost again, but Delcatty finishes of Electivire and Regiice)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1040839410
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1039287826
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1039240364
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1038892650
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-1038850298
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-997226815 (Lost as well, but Delcatty finishes off Electivire)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-992325040
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-991423363
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-991310700

Now as you can see, Delcatty is able to kill a ton of threats and should therefore be at least considered to be uu. I hope I was able to convince you with my nom and I wish you a nice day :)

 

[5gen]

Hey all, the voting slate is up for council and so the thread will be locked until we have all voted. Should be within ~a week, there are a ton of noms

 

[5gen]

Hey all. With the generation coming to a close for us, this is most likely the final major update for the USUM ZU VR. Voting slate is here. Much of the changes are a result of meta development since the Shiftry ban and the Torterra drop. For explanations of rises and drops, reasoning can be found in the thread and voting sheet.

Rises

A+ to S
A to A+
A to A+
A- to A
Silvally_Water A- to A
A- to A
B+ to A-
B+ to A-
B+ to A-
B+ to A-
Silvally-Dark B+ to A-
B- to B
B- to B
C+ to B-
C+ to B
C+ to B-
C+ to B-
SIlvally-Electric C+ to B-
C+ to B-
C+ to B-
C+ to B
C+ to B-
C to C+
C to C+
C- to C+
ranked at C
ranked at C-
ranked at UU
ranked at UU
ranked at C-

Drops

A to A-
A to A-
A- to B+
B+ to B
B+ to B
B+ to B-
B to B-
C+ to C
B- to C+
B- to C+
B- to C
C+ to C
C+ to C-
:Meowstic-M: C to UU
C to C-
Silvally-Ice UU to UR