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CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 4
- Thread starter Hyra
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well i've given it lowish defences, and high HP makes little diference if you dont have the defences to back it up, i like the high HP but if you think the overall defences are too much i could lower them.
this thread reaks of the type of players who bitch about blissey and are making sure this thing not just has the type advantage over it but then enough stats to completly own it.
525 with this typing when no doubt you lot will be giving it shit like close combat,shadow claw,cross chop,hypnosis,bulk up is fucking broken.
525 with this typing when no doubt you lot will be giving it shit like close combat,shadow claw,cross chop,hypnosis,bulk up is fucking broken.
well thats because we all want more counters for blissey and to own the best wall ever!!!
and watch your language mate...
As long as we don't have 525 BST (BANETTE EVO DAMNIT), I'm happy. 485-515 seems as a fine BST range to me; low Speed with balanced defenses means the Sp. Attack will be shitted somehow and I'm happy with it.
So yeah, I think I'll go with 500-525 (because 515 is the highest I'd normally go for), and because Deck's spread appeals to me the most (even though it has 525 BST).
So yeah, I think I'll go with 500-525 (because 515 is the highest I'd normally go for), and because Deck's spread appeals to me the most (even though it has 525 BST).
I think we should avoid over-powering it. That just screams "ego". B'sides, the last one we made was tough.
Last time Cooper PM'd a certain number of people (I believe six, which is less than I am PM'ing) to design the Base Stat spreads that we voted on. If everyone could submit a spread, each spread would have 1 vote. I do not want that, so I am limiting the stat creators to those who have actively participated in both threads (FSS is an exception because he has amazing reasoning behind his spreads, but he was still very active in this create a pokemon).
Ghosts can use Close Combat. They aren't solid meaning that they can't exactly drop their defenses while attacking because you can't hit them (Close Combat is basically a boxing move, even though Pokemon without hands get it).
Shadow Claw has 70 BP. So does Night Slash. Is Weavile broken with Night Slash, a higher attack stat, and a higher Speed stat?
Cross Chop depends on the design. If it looks like it can chop stuff, yes; if not, no.
Hypnosis? How do you see a Ghost/Fighting type using Hypnosis? Maybe Doug's djinn could use it, but I doubt that.
And how is Bulk Up broken if it can still be hit on the Special side, where most of its weaknesses reside (Togekiss, Yanmega, all Pyshic types except for Gallade and Metagross, and the Ghost types that lack a physical attacker which is why this is physical.)
Lationheat, can you ever be positive? Almost every post I see by you is negative, including ones outside of these threads.
Dude, do you ever contribute anything useful to any discussion? By your logic, the ideal pokemon would have a 1/ 1/ 1/ 1/ 1/ 1 spread, just to make sure that it doesn't overpower anything. We're not trying to break the metagame here. We have a Ghost/Fighting pokemon. With any STAB attacks at all, I'd hope it'd be able to KO a normal type with shit defense. And what's wrong with having some good STABs? Shadow Claw has 75 BP, if I remember correctly, and Cross Chop has 80 accuracy. I can understand not giving it Close Combat (for Hyra's reasons, not yours), but Mach Punch isn't going to be the only Fighting move on this guy. But then priority moves are broken, right?
Reposting my spread:
100/ 125/ 85/ 70/ 85/ 65 = 530 BST
or
90/ 125/ 85/ 70/ 85/ 65
I'm not as good strategically as futuresuperstar, so I can't really tell you how this is good, but I tried my best. Balanced defenses with a usable Sp. Attack for Hidden Power usage, and a high enough attack to not need Bulk Up, but could use it. For the sake of not breaking this, I'd have to say that we'd need to limit it's movepool a lot, probably leaving it with only STABs.
Well, it's not like it needs much more than its STABs. Fighting gets Focus Punch, which has gone on everything with hands to stuff like Togekiss. That move alone makes it very powerful. Currently, I see something like Sub/Bulk Up/Focus Punch/Shadow Claw being a very strong moveset, no matter what the Base stats are. If our Pokemon lacks hands to punch with, it most likely has a slashing appendage allowing Cross Chop. And if the Pokemon with hands can't use Shadow Claw (Doug's design), it can use Shadow Punch or maybe Shadow Sneak (Dusknoir uses it, and he hardly looks sneaky).
Things that can wall this thing if it only has STAB moves:
Skarmory - but only if it relies on Focus Punch.
Possibly Bulky Water types
Flying types - Crobat, Gyarados, Zapdos, Salamence, Gliscor.
Poison types - Weezing (sort of), Tentacruel (sort of), hi Crobat, Toxicroak
Okay, Flying types are definitely the best counter for this. Of course, I'm starting to see how Bulk Up might very well be to powerful. Sub+Bulk Up make this thing in possible to deal with on the physical side, because you are guaranteed at least one Bulk Up. I'm thinking Cross Chop + Bulk Up might have to be mutually exclusive (can't be used together), or else we have something that is a bitch to take down.
Like Ninetales getting Energy Ball only as an egg move? Nice idea, but if so, this thing will need to be thrown either in the Water 1 Egg Group (Polwrath gets Bulk Up, Golduck gets Cross Chop), Bug Group (but then you will only get Bulk Up with Pinsir), or Fairy Group (Snubull learns Bulk Up, and Close Combat!). Humanshape means Machamp will pass Cross Chop+Bulk Up easily, and Indeterminate doesn't get a single pokémon that learns one of them.
Waitwaitwait, Gallade gets Bulk Up (and meh, Close Combat). There isn't a single thing that gets Cross Chop and isn't in the damn Humanshape Group besides Golduck (Ground/Water 1), Primeape and Ursaring (both Ground). Oh well.
The only non-part-Water pokémon that are in the Water 1 Group are Delibird, Dratini line and lol Bidoof. Will our Ghost/Fight be "aquatic" enough to be accepted by this group? I don't think so...
I would like to see low base stats, but a cracking movepool to make up for it. It could possibly have its own signature move, or at least a seldom seen combination of moves.
I'm running threat calcs right now. My expectation is that this pokemon should buttrape Heracross in all cases. So much so, that people start carrying Shadow Claw on Hera over the now-preferred Night Slash. It should be a decent-but-not-perfect counter for Tyranitar. It should laugh at the pink whore. Skarmory should own this thing so hard it cries. Other physical walls should fare well against it. Gengar should be a prediction battle. Dusknoir should be a grudge match, but I really don't know about this one until I look at the calcs.
I like your spread just fine as it is. It's a great tank spread, and I think a lot of people are going to vote for it. I wouldn't change a thing.
I think this is a good spread. It's different from the other spreads presented, and that's a good thing. That's one reason I'm proposing a faster speed. I actually like the idea of a slower pokemon, but there are plenty of "slow tank" spreads being proposed. We need variety in the poll. That big HP number is pretty cool. I'd leave it there. It really changes the damage equation. I hope people realize that when evaluating the spread.
One of the main reasons that I wanted to give a higher special defense than defense for my suggested spread is the general nature of most Ghost-types and Fightying-types. Most, if not all, have higher special defense than defense.
100/100/100/75/80/70
90/110/90/75/100/60
Both of these are 525 total...you made a comment on them so I assume I would be one of the people you are forgetting?
They all have HP right around to 80-100, the first one is for much more of a physical tank than anything else, and the second one gives it a good way to be like the opposite of Suicune...Bulk Up over CM, and higher SDef to start rather than Def.
90/110/90/75/100/60
Both of these are 525 total...you made a comment on them so I assume I would be one of the people you are forgetting?
They all have HP right around to 80-100, the first one is for much more of a physical tank than anything else, and the second one gives it a good way to be like the opposite of Suicune...Bulk Up over CM, and higher SDef to start rather than Def.
That sounds promising, can't wait to see how those calcs turned up, also how are you doing those calcs anyway?
What a relief in the sense. I had dreams about my stat spreads and how many ways one could change it up and how certain abilities might affect it (I shit you not). Thank you and Time mage for your opinions on it.
My biggest fear with giving this an attack stat higher than base 115 or so is that it will essentialy morph into a Heracross with better resistances. Nothing stops a 125 Attack pokemon from just slapping on Choice Scarf and slaughtering with Close Combat, Shadow Claw/Punch, and an elemental punch to take care of whatever isn't addressed.
I wanted to stay true to the "essense" of ghost pokemon and fighting pokemon as best as I could.
I decided my spread based on the following general rules:
1. Do not directly usurp another pokemon where possible.
While this does defend better physically than Dusknoir, and beats Spiritomb overall, it can't defend as well as either of them on both defenses simultaneously. It has lower attack than Banette and well, Sableye just has a bad stat total, what can I say? It isn't like this will be getting Recover. As far as fighters go, it has less attack than Machamp, won't have the support movepool of Hariyama (and has less attack), and doesn't have the speed of the other fighters. Essentially I wanted a hybrid between the "solid ghosts" and the bulky fighters.
2. Stay true to the poll decisions.
Our polls decided on a balanced physical medium speed pokemon. While I suppose you could argue mine leaned more towards defensive than balance, my physical stats outrank my special stats by 30 each, and the attack stat is competent.
3. Always keep balance in mind.
I did not want this to be just another mindless "slap on a Band or Scarf and go" pokemon. My vision was a physically sturdy slow ghost/fighter that used Bulk Up to great effect. I didn't really try to engineer stats other than to stay true to my vision. I mean after all, being able to stop a 0 EV Bliss Ice Beam isn't a huge deal. No EV Bliss SA is 186. I also didn't want to call this "physical," then slap on 100+ S Def. It isn't really a balanced physical leaning pokemon if your SD is higher than your attack and/or defense. The only precedent for that is the Hitmons, who are balanced by craptacular HP and awful stat totals (seriously, they're at 455).
In short I stand by my stat spread. I think it offers a great balanced pokemon that is unique for more than it's typing.
I wanted to stay true to the "essense" of ghost pokemon and fighting pokemon as best as I could.
I decided my spread based on the following general rules:
1. Do not directly usurp another pokemon where possible.
While this does defend better physically than Dusknoir, and beats Spiritomb overall, it can't defend as well as either of them on both defenses simultaneously. It has lower attack than Banette and well, Sableye just has a bad stat total, what can I say? It isn't like this will be getting Recover. As far as fighters go, it has less attack than Machamp, won't have the support movepool of Hariyama (and has less attack), and doesn't have the speed of the other fighters. Essentially I wanted a hybrid between the "solid ghosts" and the bulky fighters.
2. Stay true to the poll decisions.
Our polls decided on a balanced physical medium speed pokemon. While I suppose you could argue mine leaned more towards defensive than balance, my physical stats outrank my special stats by 30 each, and the attack stat is competent.
3. Always keep balance in mind.
I did not want this to be just another mindless "slap on a Band or Scarf and go" pokemon. My vision was a physically sturdy slow ghost/fighter that used Bulk Up to great effect. I didn't really try to engineer stats other than to stay true to my vision. I mean after all, being able to stop a 0 EV Bliss Ice Beam isn't a huge deal. No EV Bliss SA is 186. I also didn't want to call this "physical," then slap on 100+ S Def. It isn't really a balanced physical leaning pokemon if your SD is higher than your attack and/or defense. The only precedent for that is the Hitmons, who are balanced by craptacular HP and awful stat totals (seriously, they're at 455).
In short I stand by my stat spread. I think it offers a great balanced pokemon that is unique for more than it's typing.
You are listed specifically in the OP.
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