CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 7a

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Jonathan said:
I still have yet to hear a good reason why someone would use Air Lock competitively. You say giving it Insomnia and Shed Skin is giving it to abilities with the same purpose. Why not argue for Run Away instead of Air Lock; it practically serves the same purpose.
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In addition to the Leftovers thing, Pokemon like HaxChomp and that annoyer Froslass say hi. I'm sorry, I just don't like HaxChomp too much, and I've seen what Annoyer Froslass can do. Not fun.

Plus, this thing would be an awesome counter to Blizzard Mountaineer Syclant (if anybody actually uses that). I think. Since they're going to be in the same server, from what I understand.
 
Jonathan, Why you're advent about Insomnia in the first place? I having a feeling it's more about the whole "Mummy can't sleep" thing rather than something that make it more promising.

Note: I didn't feel like reading all your post so I'm sorry if I didn't noticed the reason for it already.
 
Jonathan said:
I'm surprised you'd chose an immunity to sandstorm over an immunity to sleep. So you're telling me you voted for Air Lock on the off chance you face a CBTar, and you switch into its Crunch. You realize with just switching into Stealth Rock, your leftover gains are negated, never mind other residual damage.Besides the fact that I don't know why someone would switch this guy into what you suspect to be a CBed Crunch, and the fact that this is unbelievably situational, consider the following,
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Consider this: We are not voting for the optimal ability, no. We are voting for an ability that will be not useless, makes sense (Insomnia makes too, eh), and people like.

If this was about giving it what's better, Shadow Tag would be the way to go. And, although Insomnia is nowhere near the brokenness levels of Shadow Tag, that doesn't mean it should be chosen just because "its better". There are other reasons apart from efficiency.
 
Magmortified said:
In addition to the Leftovers thing, Pokemon like HaxChomp and that annoyer Froslass say hi. I'm sorry, I just don't like HaxChomp too much, and I've seen what Annoyer Froslass can do. Not fun.

Plus, this thing would be an awesome counter to Blizzard Mountaineer Syclant (if anybody actually uses that). I think. Since they're going to be in the same server, from what I understand.
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Hoping that Blizzard will miss doesn't make you a counter -_- There's a large chance you'll still get hit. For HaxChomp it'd go something like this:

Trainer A switches in Garchomp
Trainer B does whatever
Trainer B switches in Ghost/Fighter, Sandstorm deactivates
Trainer A's Garchomp uses SD/Outrage/EQ, basically something completely devastating.
Trainer A's Garchomp attacks again because it's faster, surely killing or severely maiming you while you do...what exactly?

Frosslass doesn't pose nearly enough of a threat for its hax to be gamebreaking.

Gothic Togekiss said:
Jonathan, Why you're advent about Insomnia in the first place? I having a feeling it's more about the whole "Mummy can't sleep" thing rather than something that make it more promising.

Note: I didn't feel like reading all your post so I'm sorry if I didn't noticed the reason for it already.
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Please do read my posts. My reasoning has nothing to do with that kind of argument and everything to do with competitive battling.


Time Mage said:
Consider this: We are not voting for the optimal ability, no. We are voting for an ability that will be not useless, makes sense (Insomnia makes too, eh), and people like.

If this was about giving it what's better, Shadow Tag would be the way to go. And, although Insomnia is nowhere near the brokenness levels of Shadow Tag, that doesn't mean it should be chosen just because "its better". There are other reasons apart from efficiency.
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From the way people voted on Mountaneer and Compound Eyes in the first create a Pokemon, and the way Shed Skin was decided upon, people certainly seem to be voting for the ability they deem "best," and in the competitive sense. The problem is that people like Magmortified (no offense) seem to actually think Air Lock is a good ability for battle, without having really thought things through.
 
Time Mage said:
And, although Insomnia is nowhere near the brokenness levels of Shadow Tag, that doesn't mean it should be chosen just because "its better". There are other reasons apart from efficiency.
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Heck yeah! Nintendo's decision to introduce things like "Run Away" and "Honey Gather" establish this. I wouldn't want our Pokemon to have out-of-battle uses like that, since it's mainly going to appear just on Shoddy. But the point is the best possible ability is not the only possible ability.
 
But the point is, you voted for Air Lock because you thought it was the best ability, rendering your argument about not voting for the best ability void.

And I'm sure Nintendo gave Combee "Honey Gather" in order to balance it out, as it would be Uber otherwise. There's no possibility they gave it that ability cause it makes sense.
 
Jonathan said:
But the point is, you voted for Air Lock because you thought it was the best ability, rendering your argument about not voting for the best ability void.
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Uh, no. I voted for it because I'd love to see HaxChomp neutered. I don't personally believe it's the best ability, but I think it's a very interesting one.

I would have voted for Immunity, but nobody else wants that.
 
Pasted from my previous post, which you seem to have missed:

For HaxChomp it'd go something like this:

Trainer A switches in Garchomp
Trainer B does whatever
Trainer B switches in Ghost/Fighter, Sandstorm deactivates
Trainer A's Garchomp uses SD/Outrage/EQ, basically something completely devastating.
Trainer A's Garchomp attacks again because it's faster, surely killing or severely maiming you while you do...what exactly?
 
Jonathan said:
Please do read my posts. My reasoning has nothing to do with that kind of argument and everything to do with competitive battling.
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Okay...now you got my interest. Originally I thought your reasoning wasn't competitive battling but some lame "It has to make sense" or "Because zombies don't sleep". I now want to back you up for it.
 
Jonathan said:
Pasted from my previous post, which you seem to have missed:
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Wasn't this your previous post:

"But the point is, you voted for Air Lock because you thought it was the best ability, rendering your argument about not voting for the best ability void.

And I'm sure Nintendo gave Combee "Honey Gather" in order to balance it out, as it would be Uber otherwise. There's no possibility they gave it that ability cause it makes sense."

For HaxChomp it'd go something like this:

Trainer A switches in Garchomp
Trainer B does whatever
Trainer B switches in Ghost/Fighter, Sandstorm deactivates
Trainer A's Garchomp uses SD/Outrage/EQ, basically something completely devastating.
Trainer A's Garchomp attacks again because it's faster, surely killing or severely maiming you while you do...what exactly?
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If it makes you feel any better, an Outrage from Adamant ScarfChomp is, like, a 3HKO if you give it max HP and sufficient defenses. I was feeling random, so I went around 188 and gave it a plus nature. With the leftovers, it's a 3HKO, doing around 46-54% damage. And it can OHKO back with Ice Punch, assuming it's got the remaining EVs in Attack. So, yeah, you're right it that it can maim the thing, but it can maim back.

But then, HaxChomp would probably Sub on the switch, SD, and then Outrage. Which makes it more dangerous. But at least we're probably not going to be seeing any Garchomps switching in on this thing.

My argument here is probably flawed.
 
I deleted my first post, as I changed my mind.

Air Lock was my original vote, but I decided that I want to vote for no second ability. It was not a very difficult decision to make. Air Lock just does not fit right. Yeah, it helps counter Tyranitar like I originally intended, but it just does not fit a mummy. Plus, a mummy would not want to stop a sandstorm ...

One of the neat things about Shed Skin is that it helps, well, shed status, including the likes of sleep after using Rest. With Sleep Talk, this could come back to bite you, but it also allows for a set actually void of Sleep Talk, altogether.

Insomnia is the exact opposite -- while it would be cool to avoid sleep, altogether, that would mean that it cannot use Rest. This thing wants to survive to take on Heracross and company for the whole match. And, without Pain Split, a move to which it very well may not have access, it needs to be able to sleep itself.

Dry Skin is neat, but the more I think about it, the more it is overpowered. Suddenly, this would become a Gyarados-killer, bulky water-killer, and an overpowered Vaporeon with access to some excellent resistances. Plus, it does not exactly fit the description of a mummy, in terms of absorbing water attacks.

Snare Trap, honestly, I really just do not like it all that much, and I want to stray away from needing to create a custom ability for every Pokemon that we create.

So, no second ability it is.
 
Magmortified said:
Wasn't this your previous post:

If it makes you feel any better, an Outrage from Adamant ScarfChomp is, like, a 3HKO if you give it max HP and sufficient defenses. I was feeling random, so I went around 188 and gave it a plus nature. With the leftovers, it's a 3HKO, doing around 46-54% damage. And it can OHKO back with Ice Punch, assuming it's got the remaining EVs in Attack. So, yeah, you're right it that it can maim the thing, but it can maim back.

But then, HaxChomp would probably Sub on the switch, SD, and then Outrage. Which makes it more dangerous. But at least we're probably not going to be seeing any Garchomps switching in on this thing.

My argument here is probably flawed.
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You wanna talk numbers?

With 252/252 +Defence Nature, Adamant Scarf Chomp Deals 44-51% damage. With Leftovers (we're assuming Air Lock) it is indeed a 3HKO from full health (which isn't the likely scenario).

Now assuming he gets Ice Punch (which I think is now really stepping into Dusknoir's territory to those of you worrying about giving this guy Pain Split, as this guy can actually use Ice Punch unlike PS), our new Pokemon deals between 66-79% damage to Scarf Chomp (no attack EVs cause you've invested everything in defence to make sure you're 3HKOed).

If you want to OHKO Garchomp, you'll be 2HKOed in turn. Now, obviously it's the ghost switching into Garchomp and not the other way around, so Garchomp essentially has 2 turns to use outrage and take nothing in return (assuming the ghost is going for the OHKO and has invested in attack. If you're max defense, Garchomp still wins but losses a good 70% of its health). Not a counter even with Ice Punch.

This thing stands absolutely no chance against the SD and the CB variants.
 
NO ABILITY.


however, since it's either no ability or air lock at this point, i'm supporting someone's suggestion of grave aura as a replacement name for airlock...i like it because it's a double meaning....and they both work for this mon...
 
Weather is very prevalent in the current metagame, and an ability that renders you immune to it is a big bonus. I've never really liked Snare Trap/Entomb, and Dry Skin doesn't make sense to me. After reading many arguments, I'm noe voting for my original suggestion, Insomnia.
 
If Air Lock wins, there really isn't any reason to spend more time deciding between Air Lock and Cloud Nine. They're both the same ability, Air Lock makes sense thematically whereas Cloud Nine doesn't, and it really doesn't matter if Rayquazza shares his ability's name with someone.
 
Jonathan said:
You wanna talk numbers?

With 252/252 +Defence Nature, Adamant Scarf Chomp Deals 44-51% damage. With Leftovers (we're assuming Air Lock) it is indeed a 3HKO from full health (which isn't the likely scenario).
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252 Defense isn't needed from what I've calculated. More around 188, which does free up some for Attack.

Now assuming he gets Ice Punch (which I think is now really stepping into Dusknoir's territory to those of you worrying about giving this guy Pain Split, as this guy can actually use Ice Punch unlike PS), our new Pokemon deals between 66-79% damage to Scarf Chomp (no attack EVs cause you've invested everything in defence to make sure you're 3HKOed).
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First, there'd have to be a clear definition of Dusknoir's territory. Sure, Dusknoir does get the Elemental Punches, but does getting the Elemental Punches (which I'd think this Pokemon would deserve a bit more) mean it's copying?

As for the numbers, again, you're assuming that it needs the 252 Defense to avoid a 2HKO. It doesn't. Meaning there's some freedom to give it those needed Attack EVs.

This thing stands absolutely no chance against the SD and the CB variants.
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And that I'll agree with. Oh wellz.

Still voting for Air Lock or any variations thereof. If only for taking on weather teams at this point. The ability to retain Lefties is an added bonus.
 
futuresuperstar said:
One of the neat things about Shed Skin is that it helps, well, shed status, including the likes of sleep after using Rest. With Sleep Talk, this could come back to bite you, but it also allows for a set actually void of Sleep Talk, altogether.
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Need I say it again that your sleep disapears at the END of the turn, so it won't effect your attack. So if you are asleep at the beggining of the turn, you will be asleep when you attack, unless it is the last turn of rest
 
No Ability

after reading a lot of the posts, i came to this desicion. i also think Air Lock doesnt fit at all with a mummy or fighting/ghost type pokemon
 
I voted Air Lock for two reasons:
-Tombs are sealed places, and nothing moves down there, not even the air. It makes sense to me.
-I want to use this pokemon to break up hail and rain dance teams. If it can break up sandstorm too, all the better.
 
I vote for Insomnia. I think Shed Skin is probably a better competitive choice. But, Insomnia fits better conceptually. Jonathan makes some interesting arguments for it. While I love the idea of Entomb, it seems like it would be a wasted vote at this point.
 
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