I think that it would be totally awesome if someone cam out with some smogon merch. No actualy pokemon could be used because you run into legal issues, but there could be shirts like, Online Tourney Winner and Smogoneer, or other ones like with the smogon logo and something. There could be polos with the smogon logo where the polo logo is. I don't know how difficult this would be to get started, but I think that it would be pretty awesome. Anyway, its just a thought.
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Smogon Merch
- Thread starter Werecario
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Sites like CaféPress are the best solution for (relatively) small communities wanting to sell personalised merchandise, imo, though that still leaves the whether we'd do it / who / how etc. issue / other logistics (I mean, it's just my suggestion, but it seems to work for a number of other sites). I am really sure that we could at least sell some shirts -- there are a number of people who always ask whenever they see a photo of someone in the awesome Koffing shirts, 'Where do I get those?' People are pretty loyal to Smogon and the fandom, and I bet people, especially those who attend VGC and other Pokémon events, would wear a Smogon shirt with pride.
With 41,778 Members, I'm sure we can find somebody that can invest some money, and order ~1000 tshirts, and then send them out. This person could make some profit, while helping pay for website expenses and such. Of course, this is a crude way of doing this, but a possible way.
Zerowing used to have a site that sold shirts with the Koffing "logo" on it, but was asked by Nintendo or Pokemon USA (not sure which) to take it down. I'm not sure if/how we can sell a shirt that doesn't break said copyright a second time without talking to Nintendo/Pokemon USA, but I would support such a shirt/merchandise if ever made.
Maybe not selling something that has a direct Pokemon reference on it? Like a Smogon.com t-shirt with CAP Pokemon on it, or something. Even just a "Smogon University" college-parody t-shirt I'd buy. I'd be willing to set something up but I'm fairly certain it's up to chaos lol
Any Smogon merchandise would have to be completely devoid of the intellectual property of Nintendo/GameFreak in order to gain approval from the site leadership. This is very difficult because, obviously, most of the art we use is based on Pokemon art, which is not usable for merchandise. Additionally, the very name "Smogon" may be off limits because it is the German word for "Koffing" and therefore owned by Nintendo. We have at least one blossoming legal expert that I'll consult about this, however.
If the whole legal part of this was sorted out, that would be awesome. I would so get one of the SU (Smogon University) shirts!
My unofficial, not-legal-at-all opinion: Why would Nintendo mind someone profiting off a Koffing silhouette but not off of owning a site named after a Pokemon, unless they don't have the rights to "Smogon" as a name?
Selling "the Smog" t shirts is probably legally way easier. For once I actually like the name.
Selling "the Smog" t shirts is probably legally way easier. For once I actually like the name.
Nintendo has an established policy of being very opaque regarding their pursuit of copyright claims. Their stated company line is that they never grant permission for anything outside Fair Use or officially licensed materials, but they clearly do allow the maintenance of unlicensed fan websites which do go beyond Fair Use, of which Smogon is almost certainly an example. For whatever reason, the company is not inclined to elaborate on its reasoning.
This said, there are options available to us. The words Koffing and Smogon are not registered as typed or standard character drawing trademarks in the United States. While Nintendo of course has claims to its intellectual property on a variety of grounds, it has registered as trademarks only certain particularly significant names, such as Pikachu, Togepi, and Meowth. The legal ramifications of this are of course complex. I can elaborate if necessary, but:
I don't want to waste my time with redundant research. If the site staff wants me to prepare a formal memo on merchandising options, I can do it, but it is not a trivial project.
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/ <--- search this for Koffing, because it is clearly copyrighted in the USA
Copyright Number: VAu000490187
Copyright Number: VAu000490187
I'd totally buy one of these. Would make it a lot esier for meetups and VGCs.
And I'm with Chris is me, if we put something like, Smogon University, the ultimate poke school (yeah i know it sux, just an example) and below we put, this great game series, POKEMON, is made by Nintendo in big letters, wouldn't that be free advertising for nintendo? Otherwise, mayby we could come up with something else. Mayby Smog University?
And I'm with Chris is me, if we put something like, Smogon University, the ultimate poke school (yeah i know it sux, just an example) and below we put, this great game series, POKEMON, is made by Nintendo in big letters, wouldn't that be free advertising for nintendo? Otherwise, mayby we could come up with something else. Mayby Smog University?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2713586&postcount=4553
one like that would be awesome. Also get one with purple and teal (shiny koffing). I would by one of each. 7 times. for every day of the week.
one like that would be awesome. Also get one with purple and teal (shiny koffing). I would by one of each. 7 times. for every day of the week.
You are correct. Koffing's likeness is indeed copyrighted, which is one of the things I was referencing when I said that the IP is protected. However, the names Koffing, and more importantly Smogon, are not registered trademarks. Most importantly, they are not what are called "typed character" or "standard character" trademarks, which are trademarks on specific words (as opposed to a trademarked way of writing a word, including font, color, etc.). You can find that search engine here.
When I said that the matter required more research, I was referring to two things. First, it would require some follow up to make certain that "Smogon University" would indeed be in the clear to use, on its own, with no copyrighted images. Second, it is not immediately clear how the copyright on Koffing's appearance would be treated. A highly stylized image, a silhouette, etc. presents some question as to the success with which Nintendo could pursue a claim. Of course, any attempt to sell merchandise featuring something fans are supposed to recognize as a Pokemon, no matter how vague the actual image, is likely to be met with a cease-and-desist request from Nintendo. They are well aware that unsophisticated fans are likely to cave to even a remote threat of legal pressure, even if the fans would be certain to win at trial.
Again, I hesitate to say more without doing more work. But my not-officially-legal-advice take, shooting from the hip, would be that the safest bet is plain "Smogon University" shirts in this style:
Nintendo have historically been weird and cagey about sites like that.
@ Everyone: Slow down, this needs to be carefully thought out, investigated, and approved by the admins, including chaos. Don't get your hopes up.
With all due respect, and I am not trying to be the least bit snarky, but intellectual property law is an extremely difficult area to research. For laypersons, including, to my knowledge, every member of the site staff, it is very easy to arrive at incorrect conclusions. As I have said in each of my posts, if the site is seriously interested in pursuing this, it should consult the services of an expert. If not me, someone else.
That's true; something like that would be the safest route. However, then again, pretty much anything akin to the stuff sold here should be fine:
http://fangamer.net/collections/t-shirts
They've been at it for a while now, and have been able to avoid problems with Nintendo and co by just not using the official character artwork, sprites ripped from the games, title artwork and other trademarked materials. So if this happens, so long as we follow the same principle and don't do something like use the Sugimori Koffing artwork (or any other official art of it--something akin to the art of Flint on Fangmer's Flinter shirt or Ness on the PSI Rockin' one would be better if we want to go that route, but even something stylized like that is a more risky option, as you said--it would be safer to just do something like putting the Smog's logo on a shirt), the Pokemon font, or anything like that, it should be fine. Of course, it's possible that the reason Fangamer hasn't really run into any problems is that most of their stuff is based around older games like the Mother series, Chrono Trigger, and Super Mario RPG... but they've also been able to sell stuff based around franchises and games that live on, like their Metal Gear stuff, without incident, so I don't believe that it will be much of a problem.
I assume it's because merchandising is something that other companies pay big bucks to Nintendo for the rights to do.
That's part of it, but the larger issue has to do with maintenance of their actual rights in the IP. Because of the way copyrights work, Nintendo could lose the right to ever sue anyone for the use of Koffing's likeness if it were to allow sufficiently rampant unauthorized merchandising. It is standard practice for corporations to stamp out even minor infringements in order to prevent things from getting out of hand and risking this.
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