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Smogon Premier League VII - Comemesment
- Thread starter jake
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how am I supposed to get drafted when I'm not even level 30 in League of Legends yet? Isn't that an SPL draft prerequisite?
"your entire community is so shit that even though mine hasnt followed meta trends for the last 9 months, has no investment in smogon, and doesn't actually care about the metagame we're signing up for, (and as such are basically guaranteed to lose motivation and flake) i'm still confident that you'd do better drawing from my community without even looking into the particular player you're getting. I'm going to ignore the fact that all 4 representatives of the DOU community all went positive last year while only 2/6 VGCers did, and in fact i'm so confident in myself that i'll throw in the bonus assumption that if i haven't heard of a player they're bad, despite having paid minimal attention to the DOU scene since last SPL."
just one year i'd like to be able to just enjoy SPL instead of having to constantly stress over this DOU/VGC bullshit but I'm beginning to think that that's never going to happen. I guess it's a natural consequence of the way two communities are forced to fight over only one slot in SPL.
also finally agreed with his placement on the list but i guess your fabulously informed self should know better since you've clearly got a finger on the pulse of the DOU community.
You still have an entire month to level up an account n_n
CHAT SHIT GET BANGED
I'm going to address this because I think the topic is interesting and want to actually clarify my post rather than "fire back". It actually might have applications to other tiers, especially in a league like this where some players may bounce around, so maybe others outside of Dubs/VGC have thoughts on it, too.
This isn't even a community or clique thing, there's people that like to play Smogdubs competitively but don't play the specific tier regularly and are probably really good at it because there isn't much of a barrier once you get the concept of 6v6 over 4v4. No one has to be in the community playing the exact tier to have knowledge of how to build and play the tier. The similarities are incredibly striking and I still think you undervalue that. Being in a community that plays the game is cool and all and has some benefits in terms of an initial learning curve, but at the end of the day when incoming players get over that curve you're only pulling for your friends/comrades (you're not doing it consciously or intentionally but due to what you value because all you've seen is from playing only one sort of subpar tier very competitively). If someone finds a player who has extensive practice in any tier with deep competition and they're dedicated to learning the mechanisms of Doubles OU in time, I think they're worth much more of a shot. What I'm getting at is playing in formats with deep competition validates your playing ability a lot more than one like Doubles OU.
This isn't a "you log a lot of time and you'll have a free pass to success because of effort" thing, this is a "who is most competitively fit for this" thing. I'd make the case that the people who play VGC and sign up for this league face much stiffer competition in a much more similar competitive environment to SPL than anyone who plays in the Doubles circuit (which is comparatively tiny and imho doesn't offer a wide variety of high-level competition). When it comes to SPL, the only variable that changes (and it's only ever so slightly) is the ruleset at hand. It doesn't take a whole lot of time to transition the things learned from 4v4 and apply them to 6v6.
The reason I made the comment I did was because the list of players you have probably doesn't stack up to some of the top players on the list of people totally uninvolved in your community that will sign. Throw Mizu, Finally, and yourself into the mix and maybe you've got something I'm a little more excited about, but I don't recognize about half of the names on that list and the of the ones I do recognize and have seen play I really haven't seen anything inspiring from most of them. Not to say that they won't be good teammates or don't have great work ethic or win a few games, but when it comes time to play and you're facing off against people who have heaps more experience against players like them, it's not a favorable position to be in. Also not saying none of them will do well, as I think there's potential for a good run with one or two of those names, but it's not as conclusive as you make it sound.
Also super related but I'm curious if this type of transition is a thing among other tiers and if the transition between them is as easily abated by being really good at the most prestigious one(s) (OU probably being the kingpin here). Maybe I'm completely wrong in assuming so. From what I've heard and experienced I'm led to think otherwise but I definitely can't claim to know for sure and I'm interested in opinions.
(Actual player eval / draft talk here, disregard if you dgaf about Doubles)
To supplement the get-to-the-point post I made on the last page... well, there was Lohgock, who even though was apparently mostly "you" I don't think is a bad player and also has good experience playing VGC and other formats, too, so I think that one is mostly irrelevant to the point here. Your other positive-record examples would be Laga, Mizu, and Finally, and before the draft last year I wouldn't have argued with you placing Finally above a lot of VGCers (would have argued Mizu but I think she proved she belonged up there.) The only one returning is Laga who probably should given another "VGCer" a positive record and maybe not had one himself, considering he got a defense boost on every single Diamond Storm and still only had a ~30% chance to beat Biosci and got it week 1. He also got an incredibly pivotal freeze vs TFC and got a flinch vs SoulSur where he probably lost if he didn't flinch that very turn. Also had pretty much lost to Zubat if Zubat hit either of the two Rock Slides. See why I'm a bit skeptical of you using records / history for this? I also definitely would not argue the same case for Finally or Mizu after watching all of the games from last year, they both finished right around where they should have record-wise. I'm not here to just trash anyone and everyone who plays the tier constantly and I'll vouch for a player regardless of the "group" they're in (like I said, this isn't an us-vs-them thing like you see it as), it's more that I'd be very much concerned about anyone who's good at Doubles OU and pretty much nothing else as it's a pretty comparatively weak tier competitively as a stand-alone.
That being said, the people you listed in tier 1 are probably worth a pickup but I'd have concerns about every single one of them vs stiffer competition ...if that competition actually is dedicated enough. That's a point that managers have to really gauge well if they're going to go after people outside of the regular Doubles OU players and I think will be the hardest to assess (I guess I can help with this to an extent if anyone needs it). Also a fair stereotype / knock on players coming in to play Doubles who don't have a lot of ties to Smogon. Beyond that, though, I think the potential of bringing in someone to try is worth it, and it isn't very expensive to do so if you do your homework as a manager. Not saying it's the best option for every team, I think with the general apathy problem of people who don't stay dedicated to the tier it'll be worth it to pick up some steady players, but in terms of drafting potential, good value and high potential > low ceiling + high floor with neutral value. If the managers can't find anyone dedicated enough who's good enough to threaten who you listed then I see no reason at all to not pick them up. There's a certain point where it becomes worth it.
That being said, the people you listed in tier 1 are probably worth a pickup but I'd have concerns about every single one of them vs stiffer competition ...if that competition actually is dedicated enough. That's a point that managers have to really gauge well if they're going to go after people outside of the regular Doubles OU players and I think will be the hardest to assess (I guess I can help with this to an extent if anyone needs it). Also a fair stereotype / knock on players coming in to play Doubles who don't have a lot of ties to Smogon. Beyond that, though, I think the potential of bringing in someone to try is worth it, and it isn't very expensive to do so if you do your homework as a manager. Not saying it's the best option for every team, I think with the general apathy problem of people who don't stay dedicated to the tier it'll be worth it to pick up some steady players, but in terms of drafting potential, good value and high potential > low ceiling + high floor with neutral value. If the managers can't find anyone dedicated enough who's good enough to threaten who you listed then I see no reason at all to not pick them up. There's a certain point where it becomes worth it.
also really sorry for shitting up the commencement thread with actual discussion
I went 1-0 last year in Doubles OU. Why am I not on your list Stratos?
unlikely to get drafted over the other skilled LC players but i'm out here to have a good time !
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