Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: September 2014

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#51
This disappointed me a ton. We don't get Savior Dog. We can't get rid of Alomomola. We can't even get Kingdra (even tho it'd be borked) And to top it all off, we can't even get rid of Hitmonchan... RU Ladder is just absolute aids and UU sucks for hording so many mons that would actually be cool for RU :(

gamer boy, the Shadow Tag ban by UU affects RU as well, so Wobb won't be a big deal.
In fairness RU hoarded pretty well everything last gen. 60+ tier lists 4ever
 
#53
Seriously what the hell is RU's problem? No other tier has so much trouble shedding shitmons like Hitmonchan from their ranks. What is it about RU that makes it have so much trouble with this? I'm legitimately curious
 
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ScraftyIsTheBest

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#54
RU was never good at shedding its bad mons from its tier list, the RU ladder has always been absolutely terrible and uses mons that shouldn't be RU. This was the case even in BW RU when terrible mons like Dusknoir, Sandslash, and Electivire were RU (and they were really horrible), while good mons like Alomomola, Golurk, Roselia, and Scolipede were down in NU, among many other good mons that deserved RU. BW RU also has a long history of poor usage stats that were never an accurate representation of the metagame (Claydol was even #1 in usage when it was RU last gen lol). Apparently RU's poor ladder problems continued into XY RU, that is why we still have really bad mons in RU like Ambipom, Claydol, and Hitmonchan. Incidentally, this is like BW UU all over again, only without Dusclops.

Oh and welcome back to OU Magnezone.
 
#55
RU was never good at shedding its bad mons from its tier list, the RU ladder has always been absolutely terrible and uses mons that shouldn't be RU. This was the case even in BW RU when terrible mons like Dusknoir, Sandslash, and Electivire were RU (and they were really horrible), while good mons like Alomomola, Golurk, Roselia, and Scolipede were down in NU, among many other good mons that deserved RU. BW RU also has a long history of poor usage stats that were never an accurate representation of the metagame (Claydol was even #1 in usage when it was RU last gen lol). Apparently RU's poor ladder problems continued into XY RU, that is why we still have really bad mons in RU like Ambipom, Claydol, and Hitmonchan. Incidentally, this is like BW UU all over again, only without Dusclops.

Oh and welcome back to OU Magnezone.
And no surprise, when looking back on the June Stats, Ambipom was #1 on 1000 stats.

Also, will Wobbuffet with Stag be allowed in RU/NU when Koko retests Shadow Tag?
 
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#56
And no surprise, when looking back on the June Stats, Ambipom was #1 on 1000 stats.

Also, will Wobbuffet with Stag be allowed in RU/NU when Koko retests Shadow Tag?
Ambipom is one of those mons that looks good on paper, but is mediocre in practice. It is at least viable, but there are better things.

To answer the Wobbuffet question, I would guess probably not, as the testing will be designed with UU in mind. I'd probably ask koko to be sure, though.
 
#57
I felt that most of these OU changes were obvious, and fell because of the baton pass nerf. I was pretty suprised to see Kabutops drop, but then again it is only really good with rain support. The use of omastar in RMT's kinda paved it's way up to RU and I kinda find it funny that the 2 fossils switched. I have a lot to say about UU but I don't want to type it all so I'll just say two words to sum it up- "more annoyances." And the rest of the mons were kinda self explainitory imo. If you guys want to see a more in depth disscusion about these changes please check out this video of mine
and have a wonderful day.
 
#58
Ambipom is one of those mons that looks good on paper, but is mediocre in practice. It is at least viable, but there are better things.

To answer the Wobbuffet question, I would guess probably not, as the testing will be designed with UU in mind. I'd probably ask koko to be sure, though.
iirc there was a question about this in the NU SQSA, and it said no
 
#59
Seriously what the hell is RU's problem? No other tier has so much trouble shedding shitmons like Hitmonchan from their ranks. What is it about RU that makes it have so much trouble with this? I'm legitimately curious
RU isn't the only tier with this problem. UU managed to hold on to Dusclops for the entirety of BW, and it wasn't until partway into XY before OU finally let go of Donphan (and we had to adjust the stats we use for tiering just for that to happen, lol).
 
#60
NU just got a whole lot better with the departure of Spiritomb and the gaining of another spinner in the form of Kabutops :]

I wish I could use Mawile in NU though. Everybody and their momma knows that's where it's ending up anyway lol

We can cry about no Savior dog in RU or no Shitmonchan in NU, but the change starts with us

#StopUsingGarbageOnTheLadder
 
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#61
I have a question: are all tiers using the 1650+ usage stats as a basis for tiering or is that just OU? If so, then how is garbage like Hitmonchan, Claydol and Dusclops still not NU?

Also, looks like Mawile is going to be tumbling down the ladder. Seriously, if this thing ends up where it was the past few gens, it's going to be one of the longest falls of any generation. Then again, the new fairy typing + Intimidate might be enough to warrant usage.
 

Antar

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#62
I have a question: are all tiers using the 1650+ usage stats as a basis for tiering or is that just OU?
Finally, for those who are familiar with how we calculate usage stats know, we weight our stats based on player skill rating, and we're calculating stats using a baseline of 1695 for OU and 1630 for UU and RU (this is different from last time). To eliminate some numerical anomalies, we're also throwing out teams where the player's RD is greater than 100 (meaning they've had less than ~5 battles under their alt).
If so, then how is garbage like Hitmonchan, Claydol and Dusclops still not NU?
And it's not really a good idea to raise the cutoff higher for the lower tiers--the only reason we get away with it for OU is that OU has such a crazy high number of battles.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and update that quoted text, since a lot of it was just copy/pasted from June's thread and is since out of date.
 
#63
And it's not really a good idea to raise the cutoff higher for the lower tiers--the only reason we get away with it for OU is that OU has such a crazy high number of battles.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and update that quoted text, since a lot of it was just copy/pasted from June's thread and is since out of date.
Ah, sorry about that. I just skimmed through the OP and didn't notice that line. Thanks for the info, though.
 

BenTheDemon

Banned deucer.
#64
RU isn't the only tier with this problem. UU managed to hold on to Dusclops for the entirety of BW, and it wasn't until partway into XY before OU finally let go of Donphan (and we had to adjust the stats we use for tiering just for that to happen, lol).
Has that change been implemented for lower tier tiering?
 
#65
Has that change been implemented for lower tier tiering?
There's a post Antar quoted a couple of posts up where it explains how each tier's stats are adjusted for the purposes of tiering. To answer your question, there has been a similar change implemented for lower tier tiering, but it isn't quite the same as that implemented for OU (i.e. the baseline for weighing usage stats is higher for OU than for lower tiers).
 

BenTheDemon

Banned deucer.
#66
Gothitelle's rise to OU gave me the idea to start testing it out as both a revenge killer and Stallbreaker.
And oh my god, this thing is underrated. I hope its rise inspires people to try it out.
 
#71
Tier Shifts

togekiss: OU to UU
quagsire: OU to UU
kabutops: RU to NU
togekiss: OU to UU

RIP UU in pieces, Air Spam coming right through. I expect a quick ban on this. It can hax the shit out of everything that does not outspeed it and yeah, it might be quickbanned/suspect tested real quick.

quagsire: OU to UU

It's one of Darbanditan's counters and hence why is going to enjoy its time in UU.

kabutops: RU to NU

it's stronk, quick, and 1337! It can be really great on NU HO teams. It's high attack and speed can allow it to shut down many Pokemon with its decent movepool. I do not expect this to get banned as it is not 'breaking' the meta
 
#72
Fuck UU, EggPlane, Fairy Princess, Dogfgt and Mermaid just fell. Then again, I say Shaymin and Crobat usage rising :)

P.S. EggPlane Parahax is shit, I scream quickban. Smeargle and Stall (Blissfgt) are gonna be stronger w/o Hera.
 
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