CAP 1 Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Poll 7, part 3

[Deck Knight]

^I like that learnset as a strawman. It seems like it needs a few more non-STAB moves. Maybe replace a STAB move or two.

With those wings in Cyzir's drawing, it sure seems like Wing Attack fits --even though it isn't flying. The move description is "Strikes the foe with wings spread wide." Those icy wings look like they could do some damage. It would be the first non-flying character to get Wing Attack. But, Empoleon was the first non-flyer to get Drill Peck. My assumption is because it just makes so much sense based on Empoleon's design. With that logic, Wing Attack on our ice bug should fit.

Right now, with the exception of a couple of moves -- every move is made for battle. Nintendo learnsets rarely are so efficient. Maybe give it Scary Face, even though this bug is so fast, it would never need it. It DOES have a scary face, IMO. Also maybe give it Razor Wind, even though it's a totally worthless battle move. With all those sharp icy edges, Razor Wind seem appropos.

Just a few suggestions. But, I like Deck Knight's starting point.

Technically Scizor was the first, but it evolves from Scyther.

Nintendo learnsets are based around the principle that you'll be using the pokemon in the game, so it makes no sense to have say Lv 20 Ice Beam, even on ice types. Usually there's a progression upward in move power over time, and support options vary heaviliy from pokemon to pokemon. Bulbasaur doesn't get Sleep Powder until its 30's, whereas Bellsprout, Oddish, and Butterfree learn it in the teens.

 

[Yoko Rains]

Base Learnset:

1: Scratch
1: Leer
6: Powder Snow
10: Bug Bite
16: Ice Shard
23: Icy Wind
29: Slash
36: X-Scissor
47: Ice Beam
56: Bug Buzz
64: Blizzard

coughcoughmegacoughcoughhorncough

 

[Cooper]

Base Learnset:

1: Scratch
1: Leer
6: Powder Snow
10: Bug Bite
16: Ice Shard
23: Icy Wind
29: Slash
36: X-Scissor
47: Ice Beam
56: Bug Buzz
64: Blizzard

This is good for a start. But I was referring to more powerful moves. We don't want this new pokemon to be overpowered, so the vote would be for things like Earthquake, Close Combat, moves that make sense but would make an incredibly broken moveset.

 

[Sunday]

lol, the scores are 96 to 69...

 

[Yoko Rains]

coughcoughmegacoughcoughhorncough

Lol we need Megahorn on it! It looks so Megahorn compatible!

 

[Instinctive]

Well yeah. I think we compile a list:

For Example:

Blizzard
Ice Beam
Close Combat
Megahorn
(Every TM except the weather ones and others that make no sense)

And then maybe vote on the ones to get rid of. Or we decide which moves would be broken together and pair them up like so:

Blizzard:Earthquake
Earthquake:Close Combat
Megahorn:Crunch

Not that those exact pairs would be broken, they are just examples. What I am trying to say is, we should find make the perfect movepool, and them eliminate enough so that it is no longer a pokemon you want on every single team no matter what.



On the side, I think it deserves Agility and Swords Dance, and maybe even Nasty Plot.

 

[Karrot]

IMO, if this were a contest for Gamefreak's new Pokemon designer, just some chick would win. It's simple, easy on the eyes, and has just the right touch of both "ice" and "bug" without totally overdoing it.

CyzirVisheen's entry, while it does look "cool" so-to-speak, does not have much of the characteristics that separate Pokemon from every other anime monster in the universe and is rather unnatural. As someone had mentioned earlier, it does look like something you would find in such an anime/manga as Dragon Ball Z.

 

[junior]

Voted for Cyzir again.

 

[Jibaku]

Kinda offtopic but

Movelist:
1: Leech life
1: Leer
6: Ice Shard
10: Focus Energy
15: Knock Off
21: Bite
28: Recover
36: X-Scissor
45: Close Combat
55: Lock On
66: Zap Cannon
78: Sheer Cold

Egg group:
Bug/Ground

Egg moves:
- Toxic Spikes (Forretress)
- Counter (Heracross)
- Rapid Spin (Forretress)
- Bug Buzz (Butterfree/Yanmega)
- Spikes (Forretress)
- Baton Pass (Ninjask/Beedrill/Volbeat/Eevee)
- Reversal (Heracross)
- Pursuit (Tauros/Yanmega)
- Thunderpunch (Ampharos)
- Wing Attack (Scyther)
- Selfdestruct (Forretress)
- Ice Punch (umm Weavile? Zangoose?)

TMs/HMs
TM01: Focus Punch
TM03: Water Pulse
TM06: Toxic
TM07: Hail
TM09: Bullet Seed
TM10: Hidden Power
TM12: Taunt
TM13: Ice Beam
TM14: Blizzard
TM15: Hyper Beam
TM16: Light Screen
TM17: Protect
TM18: Rain Dance
TM19: Giga Drain
TM20: Safeguard
TM21: Frustration
TM24: Thunderbolt
TM25: Thunder
TM27: Return
TM28: Dig
TM29: Psychic
TM30: Shadow Ball
TM31: Brick Break
TM32: Double Team
TM33: Reflect
TM34: Shock Wave
TM36: Sludge Bomb
TM39: Rock Tomb
TM40: Aerial Ace
TM41: Torment
TM42: Facade
TM43: Secret Power
TM44: Attract
TM45: Rest
TM46: Thief
TM47: Steel Wing
TM49: Snatch
TM51: Roost
TM52: Focus Blast
TM53: Energy Ball
TM54: False Swipe
TM56: Fling
TM57: Charge Beam
TM58: Endure
TM60: Drain Punch
TM62: Silver Wind
TM63: Embargo
TM65: Shadow Claw
TM66: Payback
TM68: Giga Impact
TM70: Flash
TM72: Avalanche
TM73: Thunder Wave
TM75: Swords Dance
TM76: Stealth Rock
TM78: Captivate
TM79: Dark Pulse
TM80: Rock Slide
TM81: X-Scissor
TM82: Sleep Talk
TM83: Natural Gift
TM84: Poison Jab
TM87: Swagger
TM89: U-Turn
TM90: Substitute
TM91: Flash Cannon
HM01: Cut
HM04: Strength
HM05: Defog
HM06: Rock Smash

 

[SkaterTrainer]

Thank god for jibby's awesomeness. That looks perfect, but why learn ice beam at 78? Around 40 is ice beam and 78 blizzard or sheer cold. Why zap cannon too? And how can he use close combat? Bullet seed seems out of place since he's bug/ice. Rapid spin?

 

[Yoko Rains]

Jibaku, you're forgetting Megahorn! T_T

EDIT: Also, consider giving it a way to get Ice Punch.

 

[Jibaku]

Well Darkrai learns Dark Pulse at level 93, but i could always change that to Sheer Cold. Zap Cannon...because its arms look like cannons. Plus Forry learns it for some reason. CC is for moveset's sake lol. Octillery gets Bullet Seed, and so does Mantine. This thing seems more fit to use it than both of them. And Rapid Spin...look at its butt. It looks like a freaking' top!

Sheen's pic doesn't seem to have horns lol

 

[Andren]

Thank god for jibby's awesomeness. That looks perfect, but why learn ice beam at 78? Around 40 is ice beam and 78 blizzard or sheer cold. Why zap cannon too? And how can he use close combat? Bullet seed seems out of place since he's bug/ice. Rapid spin?

Says something in the art thread about Cyzir's bug shooting ice and making gauntlets, too. So I guess it could use the ice to clobber Pokes around (if that makes sense) for Close Combat

 

[SkaterTrainer]

Ok then, I point to my old ones for explanation. Zap cannon seems out of place, still but whatever.

Andren: I never saw it so I wouldn't know.

 

[Andren]

Just saying for future reference. I'll try and find the pic.

EDIT: It's in my avatar. It grows spikes, so it can puncture stuff, but they can also be shot out.

 

[SkaterTrainer]

Yoko rains if you give it megahorn it will just be a better heracross, in a way.

From the looks of jibby's post; he implies that he can do many jobs: physical sweeping, special sweeping, mix sweeping, baton passing swords dance, spinning and spiking, and endurevesal for hail teams.

Andren: But the new one doesn't seem to look like the old one x_x

 

[Yoko Rains]

Alright, maybe not Megahorn, but why not Ice Punch? Kinda of weird to get Thunderpunch but no Ice. Just an idea.

 

[Deck Knight]

Why would this get Self-Destruct, Zap Cannon, Recover, Thunderbolt/Thunder, Charge Beam, Thunder Wave, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Baton Pass, and Close Combat again?

I'm not for nerfing the movepool entirely, but be serious. Why bother making this if we're just going to throw on the most broken type coverages, utility, and power moves available?

Why shouldn't we just say "make Deoxys-FR" OU. Because that's about what we'd be doing.

Revised:

Movelist:
1: Leech life
1: Leer
6: Ice Shard
10: Focus Energy
15: Knock Off
21: Bite
28: Icy Wind
36: X-Scissor
45: Night Slash
55: Bug Buzz
66: Ice Punch
78: Sheer Cold

Egg group:
Bug/Ground

Egg moves:
- Counter (Heracross/Pinsir)
- Spikes (Forretress)
- Reversal (Heracross/Pinsir)
- Pursuit (Tauros/Yanmega)
- Thunderpunch (Ampharos)
- Wing Attack (Scyther)
- Superpower (Pinsir)

TMs/HMs
TM03: Water Pulse
TM06: Toxic
TM07: Hail
TM10: Hidden Power
TM12: Taunt
TM13: Ice Beam
TM14: Blizzard
TM15: Hyper Beam
TM16: Light Screen
TM17: Protect
TM18: Rain Dance
TM19: Giga Drain
TM21: Frustration
TM27: Return
TM28: Dig
TM31: Brick Break
TM32: Double Team
TM33: Reflect
TM34: Shock Wave
TM39: Rock Tomb
TM40: Aerial Ace
TM41: Torment
TM42: Facade
TM43: Secret Power
TM44: Attract
TM45: Rest
TM46: Thief
TM47: Steel Wing
TM51: Roost
TM52: Focus Blast
TM54: False Swipe
TM56: Fling
TM58: Endure
TM60: Drain Punch
TM62: Silver Wind
TM63: Embargo
TM65: Shadow Claw
TM66: Payback
TM68: Giga Impact
TM70: Flash
TM72: Avalanche
TM75: Swords Dance
TM78: Captivate
TM80: Rock Slide
TM81: X-Scissor
TM82: Sleep Talk
TM83: Natural Gift
TM84: Poison Jab
TM87: Swagger
TM89: U-Turn
TM90: Substitute
TM91: Flash Cannon
HM01: Cut
HM04: Strength
HM05: Defog
HM06: Rock Smash

 

[junior]

But I doubt it'll be a good SD Passer because of how fragile it is, and that goes to spinning and spiking too.

I think this new pokemon (whatever it's called) needs more Flying attacks. It has wings!

And agreed with Deck Knight. There are some incredibly random moves.

 

[Fade Away]

What are the base stats on this thing exactly?

 

[Jibaku]

Selfdestruct for lols. It loads up Energy in its hands and then blows up out of miscontrol. Recover makes it the only bug type that gets it I think, TBolt/Thunder for the same reason Magmortar gets it, Baton Pass can always be removed. It has Spikes all over its body so I guess Spikes/TS is reasonable. Hera/Pinsir have smaller arms and they get CC, but CC can be removed if it seems too powerful. I mean, Gengar's movepool is obscene-there's nothing that counters it, and the fact that Gengar has 3 immunities and not getting hit by Spikes/TS

It kinda seems broken at this point, but with the SR weakness, and future countering creations, it won't seem as broken later on

 

[Cooper]

Actually, Cyzir's does have a horn. If you look you can see it coming out of the forehead.

 

[SkaterTrainer]

But instead of recover they should bring in a new ice type healing move, like blizzard heal or some shit like that. Regice and him would get it, it makes more sense than recover. And regice would be a great special wall again. To think in sinnoh with the blizzard conditions and everything they ended up hurting ice types instead of helping them. They need hesal next gen, same with fire types.

 

[Sunday]

Megahorn would make it a bit too broken IMO, just stick it with x-scizor.

 

[SkaterTrainer]

I agree sunday. It would just make it an icy hera clone.