Bullet Punch Scizor I suppose.
Magone Magnezone since he resists BoltBeam and has STAB Flash Cannon.
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Bullet Punch Scizor I suppose.
Magone Magnezone since he resists BoltBeam and has STAB Flash Cannon.
I would not be surprised if it hit #1 on the usage stats tbh. Cobalion is a part of an elite group of Pokemon whose base speed above 105 (the point where you are considered faster than the majority of the OU meta) and whose attacking stat is above 110 (the point where you become powerful enough to really sting the opponent). Here are all the Pokemon in that elite group:
-Cobalion
-Virizion
-Latias
-Latios
-Durant
-Cryoginal
That's right, these are the only Pokemon in the group that occupy this zone. These guys are probably going to become the primary revenge killers in the tier. Scarf Durant and Scarf Cobalion are going to be especially potent, since they can revenge Regice and Regirock with Close Combat (Cobalion) and Hustle boosted Iron Head (Durant).
edit: the scizor set looks cool and super useful for the regi's :o
Hemp Man said:
You would be better off using Iron Head. Get with the times :p
Zone learns Iron Head via Move Tutor
I would just like to point out this monster:
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly
Shell Smash / Icicle Spear / Rock Blast / Razor Shell
stats: 50 HP / 180 Atk / 95 Def / 45 SpA / 85 SpDef / 70 Spe
I mentioned it in the OP but after playing around with it, I must say that this thing is powerful as fuck and totally rip apart opposing teams after just one boost. All of Cloyster's flaws were covered up by the stat exchange. It has a good 50 / 95 / 85 defenses, which lets it actually take some special hits- perfect for setting up. A base 180 Attack is just frightening; after a Shell Smash, not much that doesn't resist (heck, NOTHING that doesn't resist) is going to be taking an Icicle Spear and live. Before a boost, Cloyster already hits a massive 459 attack- and after one shell smash, this jumps up to 918 attack, along with a base 524 Speed and a spammable base 187.5 STAB attack that breaks past Sashes, Substitutes, and Sturdies. And this is just after one Shell Smash, which a Focus Sash can easily guarantee. Pair it with Rain, and it can use Razor Shell to smash right through Steel types. Rock Blast hits Water types for a ton of damage too. Cloyster also excels at handling opposing powerhouses too; it can OHKO Regice and Regirock without a boost, and can hit Shuckle past Sturdy too.
And keep in mind, even after a Shell Smash, Cloyster's defenses are enough to let it sustain a few weaker priority attacks, such as Aqua Jet or Bullet Punch.
Seriously, this thing is hella powerful, and really hard to wall. It might be our first 'suspect'.
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly
Shell Smash / Icicle Spear / Rock Blast / Razor Shell
stats: 50 HP / 180 Atk / 95 Def / 45 SpA / 85 SpDef / 70 Spe
I mentioned it in the OP but after playing around with it, I must say that this thing is powerful as fuck and totally rip apart opposing teams after just one boost. All of Cloyster's flaws were covered up by the stat exchange. It has a good 50 / 95 / 85 defenses, which lets it actually take some special hits- perfect for setting up. A base 180 Attack is just frightening; after a Shell Smash, not much that doesn't resist (heck, NOTHING that doesn't resist) is going to be taking an Icicle Spear and live. Before a boost, Cloyster already hits a massive 459 attack- and after one shell smash, this jumps up to 918 attack, along with a base 524 Speed and a spammable base 187.5 STAB attack that breaks past Sashes, Substitutes, and Sturdies. And this is just after one Shell Smash, which a Focus Sash can easily guarantee. Pair it with Rain, and it can use Razor Shell to smash right through Steel types. Rock Blast hits Water types for a ton of damage too. Cloyster also excels at handling opposing powerhouses too; it can OHKO Regice and Regirock without a boost, and can hit Shuckle past Sturdy too.
And keep in mind, even after a Shell Smash, Cloyster's defenses are enough to let it sustain a few weaker priority attacks, such as Aqua Jet or Bullet Punch.
Seriously, this thing is hella powerful, and really hard to wall. It might be our first 'suspect'.
Hitmontop. The Cobalion Counter. Edit: And the Cloyster Counter Too.
Stats:
50/95/95/110/35/70
Stats:
50/95/95/110/35/70
Hitmontop @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SAtk
Naughty/Rash Nature (+Atk/+SAtk, -SpD)
- Vacuum Wave
- Mach Punch
- Suckerpunch
- Bullet Punch
Meet Mr Priority himself. As one original users of Technician-Boosted Priority STABs, Hitmontop got probably the best and biggest boost, in getting Dual-Sided Priority STAB with Vacuum Wave AND Mach Punch, all with decent to good attacking stats. Flip-Flopping Hitmontop's stats made no change to its attack and defense, but turned its pitiful 35 Special Attack into a whopping 110, making it more powerful than Lucario's Mixed Set thanks to Technician. With a Life Orb equipped, Hitmontop can nearly OHKO Cobalion with Vacuum Wave, doing 77.16-91.35%. It can even 3HKO Max SpD+ Lefties Kyub with Vacuum Wave about 85% of the time. It also OHKOs Cloyster, doing 132.23-155.78% with Vacuum Wave and 90.08-106.19% with Mach Punch.
The drawbacks are its non-existant Special Bulk and its 50 base speed, meaning anything with a faster Vacuum Wave might be able to KO it. Including other faster Hitmontop lol.
252+ SpA Life Orb Technician (custom) Vacuum Wave vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD (custom): 308-364 (127.27 - 150.41%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
Trait: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SAtk
Naughty/Rash Nature (+Atk/+SAtk, -SpD)
- Vacuum Wave
- Mach Punch
- Suckerpunch
- Bullet Punch
Meet Mr Priority himself. As one original users of Technician-Boosted Priority STABs, Hitmontop got probably the best and biggest boost, in getting Dual-Sided Priority STAB with Vacuum Wave AND Mach Punch, all with decent to good attacking stats. Flip-Flopping Hitmontop's stats made no change to its attack and defense, but turned its pitiful 35 Special Attack into a whopping 110, making it more powerful than Lucario's Mixed Set thanks to Technician. With a Life Orb equipped, Hitmontop can nearly OHKO Cobalion with Vacuum Wave, doing 77.16-91.35%. It can even 3HKO Max SpD+ Lefties Kyub with Vacuum Wave about 85% of the time. It also OHKOs Cloyster, doing 132.23-155.78% with Vacuum Wave and 90.08-106.19% with Mach Punch.
The drawbacks are its non-existant Special Bulk and its 50 base speed, meaning anything with a faster Vacuum Wave might be able to KO it. Including other faster Hitmontop lol.
252+ SpA Life Orb Technician (custom) Vacuum Wave vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD (custom): 308-364 (127.27 - 150.41%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
I just wanna go around and talk about synergy and cores. First of all I see stall working decently in this metagame. However, there are some kinda stuff that are kinda unkind to stall, such as Regis and Shuckle. Here is a defensive core I have came up with that could function well in this meta with proper support (lol I use this core in OU as a bulky offense/balanced core)
Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
Trait: Terravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 136 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Hone Claws
- Dragon Tail
- Roost
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 64 Atk / 200 Def (idk about EVs, just got the importable from my OU teambuilder)
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
Alright so Landorus-T sets up SR with Intimidate along with that beast defense allowing it to cover up for stuff. It is a lot more of a defensive pivot now in comparison to an offensive pivot. Landorus-T partners really well with a BULKIER behemoth, Kyurem-B who can stil ltear a lot of teams apart with that SubRoost Hone Claws set. A spinner would definitely helpful to the core but yeah that's just what I gotta show off. There are a few possible counters to the core but they are kinda offensive threats that I would like to keep to myself incase I need to shock someone in a match. Keeping that hidden tech :)
Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
Trait: Terravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 136 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Hone Claws
- Dragon Tail
- Roost
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 64 Atk / 200 Def (idk about EVs, just got the importable from my OU teambuilder)
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
Alright so Landorus-T sets up SR with Intimidate along with that beast defense allowing it to cover up for stuff. It is a lot more of a defensive pivot now in comparison to an offensive pivot. Landorus-T partners really well with a BULKIER behemoth, Kyurem-B who can stil ltear a lot of teams apart with that SubRoost Hone Claws set. A spinner would definitely helpful to the core but yeah that's just what I gotta show off. There are a few possible counters to the core but they are kinda offensive threats that I would like to keep to myself incase I need to shock someone in a match. Keeping that hidden tech :)
Most viable mons are really slow. There's no real point in using, say, a 76-104-104 defenses Nape or a 70-110-115 Lucario, etc.
Since HP is a defensive stat and Speed is mostly offensive, wouldn't it make more sense to perhaps swap them as well?
Another note, Jirachi could be useful (along with other 100*6 pixies to a lesser extent) since it isn't affected at all and fares quite well against the metagame's main powerhouses typing-wise. It is also rather fast.
Since HP is a defensive stat and Speed is mostly offensive, wouldn't it make more sense to perhaps swap them as well?
Another note, Jirachi could be useful (along with other 100*6 pixies to a lesser extent) since it isn't affected at all and fares quite well against the metagame's main powerhouses typing-wise. It is also rather fast.
Mantine @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Rain Dance
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Air Slash
Just had a game with Electro, and Mantine served as a really awesome rain check. 140 SpA + Swift Swim is mindblowing, it's Water STABs in conjunction with the Rain Boost, LO and a Modest Nature 0hko a lot of things, including Cloyster, whom it also happens to outspeed under rain, even if the clam has a Shell Smash under its belt. 90 Special Defense is also not too bad, meaning it can sponge a lot of the hits a rain team throws and it and retaliate back with its monstrous power. Its utility does not end there however, as outside of Rain it can also be a monster. 4 turns of Rain Dance is all it needs to become a crazy sweeper and really dent the opponent's team. All-in-all, a really solid Pokemon :)
Laughing because Deoxys Attack has Switched with deoxys Defense
Except not nearly as fast and a bit bulkier with not as high of an attack stat?
Anyways, I have found SubBulk up Toxicroak to work well. With 83/106/86 Defenses, Toxicroak finds many times to set up.
I'm opposed to swapping Speed and HP because that would definitely make a lot of things broken. Blissey immediately comes to mind as a pokemon that is unoutspeedable, with a base 255 Speed stat that lets her outspeed Base 135 Speed pokemon and below even if they have a Choice Scarf, and that's with an unboosted nature. Few things even have an HP stat that high, and none of those things have enough power to KO Blissey. The regis also become really scary; Choice Scarf Regirock / Ice can outspeed up to unboosted base 135s, and can proceed to hit everything hard.
I like the way the metagame is right now. Everything that hits hard is burdened with a relatively low speed stat, making them destructive but also easy to revenge kill. Things that are relatively fast are now weak- as their stellar offenses now become swapped with their less-outstanding defenses. It's quite balanced, and I like it this way. I don't think any changes are necessary.
If it gets more popular, we could consider Uber pokemon, since many are no longer as powerful as they used to be (though some, like Ho-Oh, are even more threatening.) but for now, let's just stick to what we have available in OU.
I like the way the metagame is right now. Everything that hits hard is burdened with a relatively low speed stat, making them destructive but also easy to revenge kill. Things that are relatively fast are now weak- as their stellar offenses now become swapped with their less-outstanding defenses. It's quite balanced, and I like it this way. I don't think any changes are necessary.
If it gets more popular, we could consider Uber pokemon, since many are no longer as powerful as they used to be (though some, like Ho-Oh, are even more threatening.) but for now, let's just stick to what we have available in OU.
There are a few pokemon that stand out for me.
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Tail
- Thunder Wave
Dragonite is extremely bulky now, making an even more effective
para-shuffler.
Murkrow @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Mean Look
- Perish Song
- Roost
- Substitute
Murkrow now has 85 defenses (he originally has 45) making him a great trapper in the metagame!
Cacturne @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Substitute
- Seismic Toss
Cacturne is my favourite, with 115 defenses it is a very capable subseeder and spikes user with a decent typing.
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Tail
- Thunder Wave
Dragonite is extremely bulky now, making an even more effective
para-shuffler.
Murkrow @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Mean Look
- Perish Song
- Roost
- Substitute
Murkrow now has 85 defenses (he originally has 45) making him a great trapper in the metagame!
Cacturne @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Substitute
- Seismic Toss
Cacturne is my favourite, with 115 defenses it is a very capable subseeder and spikes user with a decent typing.
Haha, this metagame is hilarious and fun. It really screw a lot of mons over because of their horrible attacks or special attacks stats made into defensive stats that have to matter. Like every rock and psychic type hate this. But this makes it fun!
Cloyster is really dangerous though. The non pathetic special defense mean it is not as easy exploitable, and the higher attack makes it easy for it to kill bulky waters.
Arcanine looks interesting with awesome bulk.
Cloyster is really dangerous though. The non pathetic special defense mean it is not as easy exploitable, and the higher attack makes it easy for it to kill bulky waters.
Arcanine looks interesting with awesome bulk.
Gyarados
HP - 95
Atk - 79
Def - 125
SpA - 100
SpD - 60
Spe - 81
Bulky as shit on the physical side (especially with Intimidate), but fragile as shit on the Special Side. Basically like Cloyster in the real metagame.
I think Gyarados would make for a good Physical Wall: Rest/Sleep Talk/Scald/Dragon Tail
HP - 95
Atk - 79
Def - 125
SpA - 100
SpD - 60
Spe - 81
Bulky as shit on the physical side (especially with Intimidate), but fragile as shit on the Special Side. Basically like Cloyster in the real metagame.
I think Gyarados would make for a good Physical Wall: Rest/Sleep Talk/Scald/Dragon Tail
Hail teams are much more viable now. Abomasnow gets usable 90/92/92 bulk for a sub seed set while Kyurem gets 125/130/130 bulk for apratically unstoppable sub roost set. I really like how stall in general is becoming dominating, thus making this meta a good alternative to standard for stall lovers.
Three words: Steely Death Serpent.
75/200/85/65/55/30
You can go two ways with this thing. You can use Rock Polish to try to outspeed things to beat them, but even max speed won't get you past anything with base 110, and that's not counting scarfers. The alternative is to embrace the slowness and start killing everyone with it. Gyro Ball is obviously the STAB of choice, considering how fast most walls are now. If you're facing a foe that Steelix forces out, you can use Curse on the switch to make its physical bulk useable while shooting Steelix's attack sky-high. In addition, the lower speed practically guarantees that Gyro ball will be hitting at full power.
71 speed. 822 attack. This thing doesn't just use Gyro Ball, it IS Gyro Ball.
For abilities, you can use Sheer Force with Earthquake, Crunch, Iron Tail and Stone Edge for ridiculous (inaccurate) power. You'll need a Focus Sash, though. Using Sturdy will let you use something like a Salac Berry. If you use Rock Polish and are brought to Sash to activate Salac, you're able to beat any scarfer with base 109 speed or less. Gyro Ball is less effective here, but STAB Earthquake will kill practically everything.
If you have a Sturdy/Sash set and get in without losing health, Steelix is almost guaranteed to kill something.
75/200/85/65/55/30
You can go two ways with this thing. You can use Rock Polish to try to outspeed things to beat them, but even max speed won't get you past anything with base 110, and that's not counting scarfers. The alternative is to embrace the slowness and start killing everyone with it. Gyro Ball is obviously the STAB of choice, considering how fast most walls are now. If you're facing a foe that Steelix forces out, you can use Curse on the switch to make its physical bulk useable while shooting Steelix's attack sky-high. In addition, the lower speed practically guarantees that Gyro ball will be hitting at full power.
71 speed. 822 attack. This thing doesn't just use Gyro Ball, it IS Gyro Ball.
For abilities, you can use Sheer Force with Earthquake, Crunch, Iron Tail and Stone Edge for ridiculous (inaccurate) power. You'll need a Focus Sash, though. Using Sturdy will let you use something like a Salac Berry. If you use Rock Polish and are brought to Sash to activate Salac, you're able to beat any scarfer with base 109 speed or less. Gyro Ball is less effective here, but STAB Earthquake will kill practically everything.
If you have a Sturdy/Sash set and get in without losing health, Steelix is almost guaranteed to kill something.
Murkrow @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Mean Look
- Perish Song
- Roost
- Substitute
Murkrow now has 85 defenses (he originally has 45) making him a great trapper in the metagame!
Why would you use Leftovers when Eviolite let's you take hits a lot better and you already have reliable recovery?
Heatran is gonna ruin Regice's day. 91/106/90/106/130/77
Still should watch out for RP Focus Blast.
All physical Shell Smash Carracosta could be fun. 74/133/108/65/83/32
Thundurus-T is the new defensive Zapdos and shrugs off Cobalion's T-wave, Iron Head, and CC. 79/70/105/80/145/101
It can't hit back very hard, lacks instant recovery, and can't Toxic Cobalion, however. :[ But it can T-wave and Taunt it.
And don't forget about Pure Power Medicham. STAB Fighting kills the Regis and Bullet Punch still does SE damage if Trick Room activates and takes care of Shuckle in TR too. Its new Attack is 546/819 with +252/CB. Not as high as Azumarill but still potent.
Still should watch out for RP Focus Blast.
All physical Shell Smash Carracosta could be fun. 74/133/108/65/83/32
Thundurus-T is the new defensive Zapdos and shrugs off Cobalion's T-wave, Iron Head, and CC. 79/70/105/80/145/101
It can't hit back very hard, lacks instant recovery, and can't Toxic Cobalion, however. :[ But it can T-wave and Taunt it.
And don't forget about Pure Power Medicham. STAB Fighting kills the Regis and Bullet Punch still does SE damage if Trick Room activates and takes care of Shuckle in TR too. Its new Attack is 546/819 with +252/CB. Not as high as Azumarill but still potent.
Looks like I finally have a chance to shine!
Flareon
65/60/130/110/95/65
Flareon's now pretty bulky, has semi-reliable recovery in Wish, and decent enough coverage between Fire Blast/Lava Plume, Shadow Ball, and a Hidden Power, the ability to boost speed with Flame Charge, Work up for boosting Spa, and Superpower still as an option for Regice (although I think Fire Blast would do more).
Flareon
65/60/130/110/95/65
Flareon's now pretty bulky, has semi-reliable recovery in Wish, and decent enough coverage between Fire Blast/Lava Plume, Shadow Ball, and a Hidden Power, the ability to boost speed with Flame Charge, Work up for boosting Spa, and Superpower still as an option for Regice (although I think Fire Blast would do more).
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