Snorlax (Update) [QC 2/2] [GP 2/2] [Finished]

Jorgen · May 22, 2012

[Overview]

Snorlax is the king of GSC, and anybody who dares question his rule will quickly learn the harsh reality of what the best Pokemon in the game can do. Snorlax is the best defensive tank with a Curse set, and it is also the best stallbreaker with a Belly Drum set. Snorlax is always an offensive and defensive boon to a team, and while it does have some unfortunate weaknesses (namely mediocre Defense, low Speed, and reliance on Normal STAB for damage output), its strong points make it the force that defines the GSC metagame. Seriously, Skarmory is only good because it walls Snorlax's most common sets, and the legendary Electric-types frequently run Thunder over Thunderbolt almost entirely because Thunder can threaten to KO Snorlax after Spikes damage or a critical hit. Snorlax is mandatory on basically every serious GSC team. Honestly, he's that good.

[SET]
name: CurseLax
move 1: Double-Edge / Body Slam
move 2: Curse
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk / Lovely Kiss / Earthquake / Fire Blast
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]

The one and only CurseLax. GSC is where the whole concept of CurseLax originated, and it's also where CurseLax functions best. Unlike other Curse users, Snorlax's massive HP and Special Defense stats allow it to avoid being 3HKOed by any unboosted special attack, thereby allowing it to Curse up to its heart's content in the face of special moves that would break other Curse users on their unboosted special side. As a result, CurseLax can usually only be stopped by phazing and stalling tactics rather than attacking it outright. Snorlax's standard Curse set uses Double-Edge as its preferred STAB attack, since the massive 120 Base Power STAB attack can threaten switch-ins even before a Curse, do solid damage to foes that resist Normal-type moves after only one or two Curse boosts, and in the event that your own CurseLax has gotten into a Curse war with an opposing Snorlax, a 999 Attack STAB Double-Edge can 2HKO an opposing 912 Defense Snorlax with a critical hit, something that the next strongest Normal STAB attack, Return, cannot claim. For these reasons, the recoil, while occasionally a problem for Snorlax against strong special attackers, is almost always worth the power. Other than the STAB move, Curse and Rest basically define this set; Curse is the set's namesake that raises Snorlax's already high Attack while patching up its weak Defense, while Rest provides the healing move that is mandatory for an effective wall.

While CurseLax is traditionally thought of as some sort of unstoppable monster capable of mowing entire teams down, the reality is that although nothing can switch in and immediately threaten an active, reasonably healthy Snorlax, there are several Pokemon that outright neuter its offensive capabilities. Normal-resisting Pokemon with Curse or a phazing move, such as Tyranitar and Skarmory, or Pokemon with high Defense and Growl or Charm, such as Miltank and Umbreon, can all easily bring CurseLax's gathered momentum to a screeching halt. The choice of CurseLax's fourth move reflects how one chooses to approach the fact that CurseLax will inevitably be walled. Sleep Talk is for those who are content for Snorlax to be useless against Ghost-types and all Cursing or phazing Normal resisters, and opt to maximize Snorlax's defensive availability by allowing it to attack even while asleep. This is especially useful when walling attackers such as Nidoking and Zapdos, who can otherwise KO a sleeping Snorlax with a lucky critical hit and some smart play. Lovely Kiss is an amazing offensive tool that is extremely effective against a single threat. It can completely incapacitate one of Snorlax's chief counters, which is likely a Pokemon that does not use Sleep Talk. CurseLax can also choose among two prominent coverage moves to tackle Normal resisters. Earthquakes gives it the ability to directly damage Ghost-types and do heavy damage to Rock-types, whereas Fire Blast gives it the ability to get past Steel-types, and is usually preferred over Flamethrower because Fire Blast can OHKO Forretress and 2HKO Skarmory and Steelix. However, Fire Blast's 8 PP is easily exploitable, so Flamethrower can be used for its reliability, especially if you want to be able to slowly (but surely) KO Gengar without worrying about PP. With Fire Blast or Flamethrower, Body Slam becomes a viable STAB move of choice, allowing Snorlax to get past Miltank with paralysis hax and paralyze the Rock-type switch-ins that can otherwise cause problems with Rock Slide flinches if they outspeed Snorlax.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Although CurseLax isn't an offensive behemoth from the get-go, it serves as an incredible all-purpose defensive tank capable of slowing down just about any offensive push the opponent might be attempting. That being said, Snorlax only lacks offensive strength because of the few common things that neutralize it (which, by the way, are only common because CurseLax is common). While it's difficult to outright KO many of these threats, the fact that Snorlax can force switches to these specific Pokemon can lead to an advantageous double switch. If the opponent is using a Ghost-type to wall Snorlax, you can double switch to Pursuit Tyranitar and put that Ghost-type in a bind. If it's drawing the likes of Miltank and Umbreon, you have a couple of options. A combination of Spikes damage and using Double-Edge on the switch can really force these two into a difficult situation, forcing them to use a lot of Milk Drink or Moonlight PP and risk being KOed by a critical hit. In addition, double switches to the likes of Machamp, Roar Raikou, and Vaporeon can allow for an instant offensive push. If the opponent is going to checks such as Tyranitar and Steelix, Vaporeon and Marowak make excellent double switch candidates. If Skarmory is the check of choice, a double switch to a mixed attacker such as Nidoking or Dragonite can keep your offensive momentum flowing, as can a switch to Roar Raikou if Spikes are down.

One important note with regards to CurseLax is its potential as the last Pokemon. When Snorlax is the only Pokemon remaining on your team, phazing moves such as Roar and Whirlwind will fail, meaning that Skarmory and Tyranitar can no longer eliminate Snorlax's Curse boosts with these moves. Last-Poke CurseLax, as it's called, forces stall teams to run tactics such as Curse Skarmory, Growl Miltank, or Perish Song Misdreavus to avoid losing to a CurseLax saved for the end of the game.

[SET]
name: DrumLax
move 1: Belly Drum
move 2: Body Slam / Return / Double-Edge
move 3: Earthquake / Lovely Kiss / Curse
move 4: Rest / Lovely Kiss
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]

Here is the game's best stallbreaker. You give up some of Snorlax's defensive potential and versatility with this set, since you are typically giving up the Defense boost and ease of use that Curse offers for the raw power that Belly Drum offers from a single turn of setup. This set generally maximizes the chance of a sweep. After using Belly Drum, a STAB move is necessary; Body Slam allows Snorlax to paralyze Skarmory and most likely 3HKO it after the Attack boost (36-43% damage). Return will guarantee the 3HKO on Skarmory (43%-51% damage) after using Belly Drum and can 3HKO Zapdos before using Belly Drum (34%-40% damage). Double-Edge, while risky due to its recoil combined with the health lost from Belly Drum, will most likely 2HKO Skarmory after a Belly Drum (51%-60% damage) and is Snorlax's most powerful STAB attack. The choice of STAB is largely a matter of preference since all three moves have their pros and cons, though Double-Edge is generally shunned for the safer STABs because the recoil makes it more difficult to maintain a sweep once Snorlax gets going. The third move depends on what else you want Snorlax to do. Earthquake gives it coverage against Ghost- and Rock-types, leaving only Skarmory able to wall you after a Belly Drum. Lovely Kiss will let you beat Skarmory and absolutely destroys teams that use only one Normal resist, though it does make life more difficult against Rock-types and makes Pursuit support mandatory in order to deal with Ghost-types. Curse is the safe option that makes the Snorlax sweep hardest to pull off, but also gives you a safe setup move to allow Snorlax to function better on the defense. Curse will also allow you to surprise opponents that try to stall you out with Growl Miltank and Charm Umbreon, as Belly Drum utterly defeats such stall tactics that otherwise work against CurseLax. The fourth move depends on what kind of team you're running. In general, you'll want to use Rest so that Snorlax has some room for error and function as a wall when you need it to. The beauty of DrumLax as opposed to other sweepers in GSC is its ability to Rest up to full health and come back later in the match to threaten to sweep again. However, if you're running a hyper-offensive team that focuses on passing Agility, you may want to forgo Rest for Lovely Kiss to maximize Snorlax's offensive potential once it gets a Speed boost from Agility being passed to it. If you are using Lovely Kiss instead of Rest, Earthquake must be used in the third moveslot. 

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Because DrumLax is more offensively oriented than CurseLax, it requires a much more specific group of teammates to help it set up a sweep. In general, DrumLax's number one enemy is Skarmory, who walls it almost completely barring a 3HKO by a Belly Drum-boosted attack while it sleeps. In order to deal with Skarmory, teammates such as Seismic Toss Heracross and Pursuit Tyranitar can chip away at Skarmory's HP and force it to Rest, therefore making it inactive for the two turns Snorlax needs to be able to KO Skarmory after a Belly Drum. Pursuit Tyranitar is mandatory if Snorlax is only using a Normal-type attacking move, because Ghost-types completely wall Snorlax without Pursuit support to snipe them out. Furthermore, if DrumLax is using Body Slam, it can synergize well with other physical sweepers such as Marowak and Machamp who thrive off of DrumLax's ability to paralyze Skarmory. DrumLax also loves Heal Bell support so that it can use Rest to restore its full health, then immediately threaten to sweep without needing to wait out the two Rest turns. For this reason, Miltank and Blissey also make great partners, despite their shared Fighting-type weakness with Snorlax. Snorlax also hates taking unnecessary damage, as it prevents Snorlax from safely pulling off a Belly Drum sweep, making Starmie an excellent partner to spin away Spikes. In addition, Raikou with Reflect can pass the Defense boost Snorlax needs to set up in the face of Rock-types and Explosion users, and Pokemon such as Stun Spore Exeggutor and Thunder Wave Starmie can paralyze members of the opposing team so that Snorlax has the chance to use Belly Drum against faster opponents. Teammates that can use Baton Pass to give Snorlax Agility boosts, such as Jolteon and Smeargle, also make excellent partners.

Snorlax can make use of Belly Drum in two different ways. The first is when it is at full health, it can safely set up the move the way it was intended to achieve maximum attack at the cost of half of its health. This is the boost that allows Snorlax to break through stalling tactics. However, Snorlax can also use Belly Drum below half health to force the move to fail and activate the Belly Drum glitch, which causes Snorlax to gain a +2 Attack boost with no cost to its health. This boost is handy for when you don't have a Heal Bell user or can't afford to use Rest, but need an Attack boost to start cleaning up the opposing team. Always be aware of when you and your opponent can pull off the glitch so that you can grab a convenient +2 boost and simultaneously prevent your opponent from obtaining that same boost.

[SET]
name: MixLax
move 1: Double-Edge
move 2: Earthquake / Lovely Kiss
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Selfdestruct / Rest
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]

This set sacrifices almost all of Snorlax's defensive utility and sweeping potential in order to utilize the element of surprise and instantly threaten just about everything in the GSC metagame. This set works mostly due to the surprise factor; most people expect Snorlax to use Rest along with some sort of setup move, leaving room for one coverage move at the most. This allows Snorlax to catch the opponent by surprise by using Fire Blast on Skarmory, and then nailing a Tyranitar switch-in with Earthquake. Once your opponent has figured out that Snorlax is mixed, they'll probably switch to Suicune, Miltank, or their own Snorlax, at which point Snorlax can use either Selfdestruct for the kill or Double-Edge to wear down these switch-ins. Double-Edge is the preferred STAB because it gives you the most power. Unlike Return, Double-Edge is strong enough to 3HKO opposing Snorlax. Body Slam doesn't even 3HKO Zapdos, so its low damage output won't force switches the same way Double-Edge does, regardless of the paralysis chance. In addition, instead of using Earthquake for Ghost- and Rock-types, you can opt for Lovely Kiss to go for the two-for-one 'Sleep-and-Explode' deal. Lovely Kiss is particularly useful for allowing MixLax to get past Growl Miltank and Charm Umbreon without having to use Selfdestruct specifically against them. The problem is that Snorlax won't be able to heavily dent Rock- or Ghost-types without Earthquake, but Fire Blast is almost mandatory as Steel-types are more common than Rock- and Ghost-types, and because Skarmory would wall you forever regardless of Lovely Kiss. For a safer route, you could opt for Rest over Selfdestruct to allow Snorlax to function more effectively as a wall.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Again, MixLax thrives off the expectations of the opponent to do damage, but even if you see it coming, it can be difficult to find a decent answer to MixLax because of its ability to heavily damage nearly any switch-in. Still, MixLax does have issues getting past some specific threats. Barring a timely critical hit, Snorlax is forced to Selfdestruct on Suicune, Miltank, and Umbreon in order to beat them. Snorlax can also be forced to Selfdestruct on Zapdos or opposing Snorlax in order to beat them. In addition, despite having Earthquake, Snorlax can struggle against bulkier Rock-types and Misdreavus. Having Spikes support helps Snorlax take advantage of the many switches it can force, putting troublesome Pokemon (except for Zapdos) into KO range for Double-Edge or Earthquake. Using other Exploders such as Cloyster and Exeggutor can also be useful for eliminating threats such as Zapdos that can otherwise do heavy damage to Snorlax. Pursuit Tyranitar helps pick off Misdreavus and chip away at Zapdos to make life easier for MixLax. In addition, mixed sweepers such as Nidoking and Dragonite love Snorlax's ability to blow up on and KO any one of these threats. Miltank in particular makes many mixed sweepers' lives extremely difficult, and it generally isn't easy to target with Explosion. To use MixLax effectively, it's also important to cover the defensive threats that Snorlax usually steps in against. Sleep Talk Raikou in particular walls the Electric- and Water-types that Snorlax is usually switched into. In general, however, MixLax isn't typically used for any specific offensive goal, and doesn't necessarily need any sort of specific support. It is a self-sufficient offensive threat that works best as a lure in order to catch opponents off guard.

[Other Options]

Other than what has been mentioned above, a mixed attacker set with Curse or Lovely Kiss as the fourth move instead of Selfdestruct can be an effective form of offense against many teams. With Lovely Kiss, Snorlax gets past Miltank and Charm Umbreon. With Curse, it has an easier time getting past Zapdos and Suicune. However, the lack of Selfdestruct on the mixed set really dampens Snorlax's ability to score surprise KOs and toy with the opponent. A mixed attacking Snorlax could also run Thunder in order to destroy Cloyster switch-ins, while 2HKOing Skarmory and threatening paralysis against mixed walls such as Miltank and Suicune. However, Thunder leaves you in a bind against Steelix, unlike Fire Blast. Thunder is best used alongside Surf for this very reason; as an added bonus, it also screws Rhydon over, who is uncommon, but nonetheless one of the most reliable Snorlax counters in the game with its heavy damage output and meaty Defense that prevents 3HKOs from Snorlax's unboosted Earthquakes. However, a Thunder and Surf mixed Snorlax finds itself in a bind against Ghost-types and Tyranitar, and relies heavily on Thunder paralysis to beat Suicune, Miltank, and Umbreon. Snorlax can also run Toxic on sets with Double-Edge and Flamethrower in order to spread poison around the opponent's team. Although Gengar is immune to both Toxic and Double-Edge and takes paltry damage from Flamethrower, it can't do much to Snorlax in return unless it Explodes, and will eventually succumb to Flamethrower if continually used to wall Snorlax. However, just as with many mixed Snorlax sets, Miltank and Suicune shut Toxic Snorlax down completely barring a critical hit.

Snorlax is capable of running Fire Blast or Flamethrower on Belly Drum sets to threaten Skarmory switch-ins with instant damage and possibly bluff a Curse set, since Snorlax will usually not use a Fire-type move on a Belly Drum set. Unfortunately, the lack of Earthquake to OHKO Ghost- and Rock-types can be very frustrating for a DrumLax that would otherwise be in position to sweep. In addition, the Fire-type move is often unnecessary, as it is possible to put DrumLax in a position such that it can KO Skarmory with its boosted Normal-type STAB moves. Substitute is a usable, albeit unconventional, option for CurseLax in order to avoid the Attack-lowering effects of Growl and Charm, which can be used by Miltank and Umbreon to stall CurseLax out of PP. Lovely Kiss also allows CurseLax to get past Miltank and Umbreon; however, unlike Lovely Kiss, Substitute is not ruined by a timely switch to a Sleep Talk user. Substitute is also useless against most of Snorlax's other checks. Snorlax makes good use of Counter on Belly Drum sets to punish foes that beat down on it and to avoid being phazed while it is asleep. Counter is also useful on CurseLax to allow it to KO another CurseLax by surprise. Shadow Ball and DynamicPunch are very niche coverage moves for very specific threats. Shadow Ball 2HKOs Misdreavus without setup, but has little use outside of that specific match-up, and Earthquake hits Gengar harder. On the other hand, DynamicPunch is more generally useful; it can ruin overconfident Tyranitar users who try to go for Rock Slide flinches, and also allows CurseLax to confuse and possibly beat Miltank, Umbreon, and even paralyzed Skarmory. However, DynamicPunch leaves you helpless at the hands of Ghost-types and at the mercy of DynamicPunch's abysmal 8 PP and 50% accuracy. Aside from the aforementioned options, there really isn't anything else worth using in Snorlax's arsenal.

[Checks and Counters]

Skarmory is often touted as the number one check to Snorlax. It resists Normal-type moves, boasts an immunity to Earthquake, has an unbelievable Defense stat, and can use Whirlwind to force Snorlax out and relinquish its boosts from Curse and Belly Drum. However, Snorlax can use Lovely Kiss or Fire Blast to beat it. Because Skarmory is hardly a universal Snorlax check, at least two good answers to Snorlax are necessary for any competitive GSC team, especially as Snorlax can utilize Lovely Kiss to put one of your checks out of commission. Aside from Skarmory, Steelix performs a similar role. Unlike Skarmory, it shrugs off even +3 Double-Edges, but it's still susceptible to Fire Blast and takes a lot of damage from a boosted Earthquake. Rock-types such as Tyranitar and Rhydon don't like Earthquake, but they easily tank its Normal-type moves, use Roar to force Snorlax out, and can even use Curse alongside Snorlax. Misdreavus takes advantage of its Normal-type immunity and the fact that it avoids being 3HKOed by unboosted Earthquakes in order to switch into Snorlax and force it out with the threat of Perish trap. However, Misdreavus loses if Snorlax is the Belly Drum variant with Earthquake. Gengar is an interesting check; it's not exactly a good wall, but it can outspeed Snorlax even after an Agility boost and then Explode on it. It also gets Destiny Bond to take Earthquake variants down with it. Furthermore, it gets Ice Punch and Hypnosis to go for the freeze while wasting the PP of CurseLax variants without Earthquake.

Growl Miltank and Charm Umbreon make solid walls for Curse and mixed variants of Snorlax, stalling out even the dreaded last-Poke CurseLax with ease; however, DrumLax completely ruins their plans. A well-timed Lovely Kiss allows Snorlax to beat these checks regardless of its moveset. Suicune can take even a max Attack Return from Snorlax and then proceed to phaze it; it can also take anything that the mixed variant can throw out. However, it does take a lot of damage from Curse-boosted Double-Edges, so it isn't recommended as a primary Snorlax check so much as it is as a fall-back. Explosion users such as Exeggutor, Cloyster, and Forretress can threaten to KO Snorlax or leave it irreparably wounded. Cloyster and Forretress in particular can survive anything that standard DrumLax can throw at them and proceed to Explode in its face, which is very useful if Snorlax manages to get an Agility boost passed to it. Finally, if one's own CurseLax uses Double-Edge, it can step in to check opposing CurseLax. CurseLax, regardless of the STAB move it chooses, can also check any variant of mixed Snorlax. Using CurseLax to check opposing Snorlax is even easier if you use a variant with Sleep Talk, Lovely Kiss, or even Counter.

On the offense, Marowak, Machamp, and Heracross make excellent double switches in the event of an expected Snorlax switch-in. In addition, Vaporeon with Acid Armor sets up unabashedly in CurseLax's face, and with Hydro Pump, a single Growth is all it needs to 3HKO the big lug. Sunny Day Houndoom also 3HKOs Snorlax on the special side after it sets up sun, and can also use Counter to punish it for attacking. Snorlax fails to OHKO a healthy Houndoom with a Curse-boosted Double-Edge, which means that many Snorlax variants will be forced to risk being killed by Counter in order to avoid being KOed by Fire Blast. A more conventional way to kill Snorlax, however, is to use a combination of Spikes and an Electric-type. Zapdos threatens to straight-up KO Snorlax with a combination of Thunder spam and Spikes damage on the switch, whereas Raikou, with its slightly weaker Thunder and lower physical defense, requires more finesse via the use of Roar to accumulate Spikes damage on Snorlax.

gumnas · May 26, 2012

Great work!

Crystal_ · May 28, 2012

Overall, GREAT work. I really like how you have splitted into the 3 main sets, that's what I had in mind too ;) And the way you explain in-depth each set, how it works, proper support etc it's really great too, considering how difficult is to gather and properly explain every idea regarding Snorlax. Congrats!

However, =P

while Rest allows Snorlax to set up in the face of Toxic and Zapdos Thunders, and in general provides the healing move that is mandatory for an effective wall.

Seems to me that talking about zapdos there (toxic zapdos!) is just a weird random example thrown there... idk, i'd generalize this a bit more, just point out that rest lets you switch into random special attacks and wall the things curselax is meant to wall, Rest just lets Snorlax keep being there... always there, walling stuff, forcing plays etc. Rest is just mandatory for something like standard curselax in GSC, I really don't know how to explain it better...

Lovely Kiss is an amazing offensive tool that, although only effective against a single threat, can completely incapacitate one of Snorlax's chief counters, which has the effect of not only letting Snorlax get past something like Skarmory, but also putting to sleep something almost guaranteed to not be a Sleep Talker.

I'm not sure about this. Curselax isn't really getting past Skarmory even with LK. LK is just great as you pointed out because it's unpredictable, and often ends up benefiting not only sometimes Snorlax itself, but also other mons, especially those that like to see normal resistors disabled. And of course, although a sleeping Skarm is still walling Snorlax, it becomes even easier to capitalize on.

I think Body Slam should also be mentioned. Although I wouldn't recommend it for ST or LK versions it can work especially well with FB, because having the chance to paralyze Ttar, Miltank and Rhydon is great. In addition, usually with Spikes support as well, Body Slam Snorlax has a chance to luck Miltanks.

In the drum set, I'd probably focus more on Marowak as a great partner to Body Slam Drumlax due to Skarmory synergy. And regarding pursuittar, i'd enphasize more on how important pursuit is if you are going mono-normal.
Oh, and you could also mention FB/FT as uncommon alternatives to LK. It's a slower strategy than LKDrumlax, but sometimes it's safer, and could be good for slow stall teams that are considering lkdrumlax; and, especially if you FT, you may be able to get past ghosts (still very very slowly though). Don't know if the fire move is worth slashing in though, just pointing out that it may deserve a mention in the set rather than in OO.

For the boom set I'd slash Rest too, especially when considering LK+FBLax, who still has a chance to get past Skarm + Miltank defesnive cores on its own, and possibly go through ttar/don too if you spike; you would then remove it from the first sentence in OO. That what I'd do at least...

Again, great work Jorgen!

danilo · May 28, 2012

hi. your set spacing is wrong so copy and paste this

name: Curselax
move 1: Double-Edge
move 2: Curse
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk / Earthquake / Lovely Kiss / Fire Blast
item: Leftovers

name: Drumlax
move 1: Belly Drum
move 2: Body Slam / Return / Double-Edge
move 3: Earthquake / Lovely Kiss / Curse
move 4: Rest / Lovely Kiss
item: Leftovers

name: Boomlax
move 1: Double-Edge
move 2: Earthquake / Lovely Kiss
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Selfdestruct
item: Leftovers

Jorgen · May 31, 2012

Updated the OP. Read the EDIT for description of the colors and edits that I made.

Crystal_ · Jun 1, 2012

I approve this, there is pretty much nothing I don't completely agree with.

Snorlax is capable of running Fire Blast or Flamethrower on Belly Drum sets to instantly threaten Skarmory switch-ins and possibly bluff a Curse set, since Snorlax will usually not use a Fire move Fire Blast on a Belly Drum set. However, not having Earthquake to hurt Ghost-types or OHKO Rock-types can be very frustrating for a Drumlax that would otherwise be in position to sweep, and the Fire move can often be unnecessary since it is possible to put Drumlax in position to KO Skarmory with boosted Normal moves.

Well, sure, but the fire move is meant to be able to 3/2hko skarm without having to halve your health, because we all know that non-lk/fire snorlax pertty much never gets past skarm without help. With the fire move, you can easily wear down Skarmory without having to drum, and when you expect something like Miltank or Suicune (or when Skarm is at low health or resting), you can use drum, and even if Skarmory is healthy it will take +75% from either two 999 STAB moves, two fire moves, or a combination of the two if it wants to switch into you. Of course, this set works much better against slow teams, otherwise eq or lk is just plain better imo.

Using both Curse and Lovely Kiss on the mixed set is also possible and can allow Snorlax to beat most stall teams that rely on a Skarmory + Miltank core to beat Curselax

did you really meant this, or just fire blast + lk? These two are potentially able to beat skarm/tank cores, curse/lk/fire/d-e could would also be able to beat suicunes, but then you got to sac rest...

Loki · Jun 1, 2012

this is a great writeup, really comprehensive.

one note though, i would consider mentioning sub as a possible 4th move on curselax. it beats teams that rely on charm/growl to beat last poke curselax.

Tamahome · Jun 1, 2012

Seriously, one of the best analysis written I've ever seen in this site. Good job as always, I think Crystal already mentioned right what to add and such.

Approved (1/2)

Crystal_ · Jun 4, 2012

Oh well then this is approved 2/2 already (refer to post #6)

Jorgen · Jun 5, 2012

Changes implemented. Even though QC is 2/2, I want to just bump this for now to get more suggestions and possibly a third QC vouching. Snorlax basically defines GSC, after all, so I really want to make sure I'm not screwing up or anything. I'll update when I'm ready for GP checks.

Jorgen · Jun 11, 2012

Well I've let this incubate for long enough. GP people, do your worst.

Jorgen · Jun 26, 2012

Bumping to remind people this is still a thing

Rakan · Jun 26, 2012

hello I am here

gp incoming :>

[Overview]

Snorlax is the king of GSC, and anybody who dares question his rule will quickly learn the harsh reality of what the best Pokemon in the game can do. Snorlax is the best ~~general~~ defensive tank in the game with a Curse set, and it is also the best stallbreaker in the game with a Belly Drum set. Snorlax is always an offensive and defensive boon to a team, and while it does have some unfortunate weaknesses (namely mediocre Defense, low Speed, and reliance on Normal STAB for damage output), its strong points make it the force that defines the GSC metagame. Seriously, Skarmory is only good because it walls Snorlax's most common sets, and the legendary electric-types run Thunder over Thunderbolt almost entirely because the damage output from the former can threaten to KO Snorlax after Spikes damage or a critical hit. Snorlax is mandatory on basically every serious GSC team; honestly, he's that good.


[SET]

name: CurselLax
move 1: Double-Edge / Body Slam
move 2: Curse
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk / Lovely Kiss / Earthquake / Fire Blast
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]

The one and only CurselLax. GSC is where the whole concept of CurselLax originated, and it's also where CurselLax ~~was at it~~functions best. Unlike other Curse users, Snorlax's massive HP and Special Defense stats allow it to avoid being 3HKOed by any unboosted Special attack, thereby allowing it to Curse up to its heart's content in the face of Special moves that would break other Curse users on their unboosted Special side. As a result, CurselLax ~~is almost always~~can usually only be stopped by Pphazing and stalling tactics rather than ~~outright threats to kill i~~attacking it outright. Snorlax's standard Curse set uses Double-Edge as its preferred STAB attack, assince the massive base 120 STAB ~~Normal move~~attack can threaten switch-ins even before a Curse, does solid damage to Normal resistoers after only one or two Curse boosts, and in the event that your own CurselLax has gotten into a Curse war with an opposing Snorlax, a 999 Attack STAB Double-Edge can 2HKO an opposing 912 Defense Snorlax with a Ccritical Hhit, something that the next- strongest Normal STAB attack, Return, cannot claim. For these reasons, the recoil, while occasionally a problem for Snorlax against strong Special attackers, is almost always worth the power. ~~After~~Other than the STAB move, Curse and Rest basically define this set; Curse is the set's namesake that raises Snorlax's already high Attack while patching up its weak Defense, while Rest provides the healing move that is mandatory for an effective wall.

While CurselLax is traditionally thought of as some sort of unstoppable monster capable of mowing entire teams down, the reality is that, although nothing can switch in ~~to put the fear of death into~~and immediately threaten an active, reasonably healthy Snorlax, there are several Pokemon that outright neuter its offensive capabilities. Normal- resistoers with Curse or a Pphazing move, such as Tyranitar and Skarmory, or Pokemon with high Defense and Growl/ or Charm, such as Miltank and Umbreon, can all easily bring CurselLax's gathered momentum to a screeching halt. The choice of CurselLax's fourth move reflects how one chooses to approach the fact that Curselax will inevitably be walled. Sleep Talk is for those who are content for Snorlax to be useless against Ghost-types and all Cursing/P or phazing Normal resistoers, and opt to maximize Snorlax's defensive availability by allowing it to attack even while asleep. This is especially useful when walling attackers such as Nidoking and Zapdos, who can otherwise kill a sleeping Snorlax with a lucky Ccritical Hhit and~~/or~~ some smart play. Lovely Kiss is an amazing offensive tool that~~, although on~~ is extremely effective against a single threat,. It can completely incapacitate one of Snorlax's chief counters, which ~~has the effect of not only letting Snorlax get past something like Skarmory, but also putting to sleep something almost guaranteed to not be a~~is likely a Pokemon that is not a user of Sleep Talker. CurselLax can also choose among two prominent coverage moves to tackle Normal resist~~ors:~~ers. Earthquake gives it the ability to do direct damage to Ghost-types and do heavy damage to Rock-types, whereas Fire Blast gives it the ability to get past Steel-types, and is usually preferred over Flamethrower because Fire Blast can OHKO Forretress and 2HKO Skarmory and Steelix. However, Fire Blast does have an exploitably low 8 PP, ~~though,~~ so Flamethrower can be ~~the more reliable move~~used for its reliability, especially if you want to be able to slowly (but surely) KO Gengar without worrying about PP. With Fire Blast or Flamethrower, Body Slam becomes a viable ~~choice of STAB~~STAB move of choice, allowing Snorlax to get past Miltank with para~~lysis luck~~hax and to paralyze the Rock-type switch-ins that can otherwise cause problems with Rock Slide flinches if they ~~can~~ outspeed Snorlax.

[Additional Comments]

DDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Although CurselLax isn't an offensive behemoth ~~as much as it i~~from the get-go, it serves as an incredible all-purpose defensive tank capable of slowing down just about any offensive push the opponent might be attempting. That being said, Snorlax only lacks offensive strength because of the few common things that neutralize it (which, by the way, are only common because CurselLax is common). While it's difficult to outright ~~kill~~KO many of these threats, the fact that Snorlax can force switches to these specific Pokemon can lead to ~~one of m~~any advantageous double-switches. If the opponent is using a Ghost-type to wall Snorlax, having Pursuit Tyranitar allows you to double-switch to that and put that Ghost-type in a bind. If it's drawing the likes of Miltank and Umbreon, you have a couple of options; a combination of Spikes damage and using Double-Edges on the switch can really put these two in a bind, forcing them to use a lot of Milk Drink or Moonlight PP and risk being KOed by a Ccritical Hhit, or double-switches to the likes of Machamp, Roar Raikou, and Vaporeon can allow for an instant offensive push. If the opponent is going to Ground-weak checks such as Tyranitar and Steelix, Vaporeon and Marowak ~~can~~ make excellent double-switch candidates. If Skarmory is the check of choice, a double-switch to a mixed attacker such as Nidoking or Dragonite can keep your offensive momentum flowing. CurselLax can switch in and stop just about every offensive threat that isn't a dedicated Pphysical sweeper such as Marowak or Machamp, but unlike other universal walls such as Miltank and Suicune, it has the attacking prowess to force specific defensive plays and allow its team to capitalize off of the opponent's predict~~able~~ed actions.

One important note with regards to CurselLax is its potential as athe last Pokemon. When Snorlax is the only Pokmeemon remaining on your team, Pphazing moves ~~like~~such as Roar and Whirlwind will fail, meaning that Skarmory and Tyranitar can no longer eliminate your Curse boosts with these moves. Last-Poke CurselLax, as it's called, forces stall teams to run tactics such as Curse Skarmory and Growl Miltank to avoid losing to a CurselLax saved for the end of the game.

[SET]

name: DrumlLax
move 1: Belly Drum
move 2: Body Slam / Return / Double-Edge
move 3: Earthquake / Lovely Kiss / Curse
move 4: Rest / Lovely Kiss
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]


Here it is, the game's best stallbreaker. You give up some of Snorlax's defensive availability and versatility with this set, since you are typically giving up the defense boost and ease of use that Curse offers for the raw power that Belly Drum offers from a single turn of setup. Theis set is generally ~~set up to~~ maximizes the chance of a sweep. After using Belly Drum, ~~which defines this set,~~ a STAB move is necessary; Body Slam allows Snorlax to paralyze Skarmory and most likely 3HKO it after ~~a Belly Drum~~the Attack boost (36-43% damage). Frustration will guarantee the 3HKO on Skarmory ~~after a Drum~~ (43%-51% damage) after using Belly Drum and can 3HKO Zapdos before ausing Belly Drum (34%-40% damage). Double-Edge, while risky due to its recoil, will most likely 2HKO Skarmory after a Belly Drum (51%-60% damage) and ~~give~~is Snorlax ~~the~~'s most p~~re-drum power available to it~~owerful STAB attack. The choice of STAB is largely a matter of preference since all 3three moves have their pros and cons, though Double-Edge is generally shunned for the safer STABs because~~, while it does 2HKO Skarmory after a Belly Drum,~~ the recoil makes it more difficult to maintain a sweep once Snorlax gets going. The third move depends on what else you want Snorlax to do. Earthquake gives it coverage against Ghosts- and Rock-types, leaving only Skarmory able to wall you after a Belly Drum. Lovely Kiss will let you beat Skarmory and absolutely destroys teams that use only one Normal resist, though it does make life more difficult against Rock-types and ~~leave you requiring Pursuit support against~~makes Pursuit support mandatory in order to deal with Ghost-types. Curse is the safe option that makes the Snorlax sweep hardest to pull off, but also gives you a safe setup move to allow Snorlax to function better on the defense ~~when you need to fall back on it~~. Curse will also allow you to surprise opponents that try to stall you out with Growl Miltank and Charm Umbreon, as Belly Drum utterly defeats such stall tactics that otherwise work against CurselLax. The fourth move depends on what kind of team you're running. GIn generally, you'll want to use Rest so that Snorlax has some room for error and ~~so it can~~ function as a wall when you need it to. The beauty of DrumlLax, as opposed to other sweepers in GSC, is its ability to Rest up to full health after one ~~setup attempt~~turn and come back later in the match to threaten to sweep again. However, if you're running a hyper-offensive team that focuses on passing Agility, you may want to forego Rest for Lovely Kiss to maximize Snorlax's offensive potential once it gets a Speed boost from Agility being passed to it. If ~~foregoing Rest for~~you are using Rest instead of Lovely Kiss, Earthquake should be used in the third moveslot.


[Additional Comments]


Drumlax, being a lot more offensive than its Cursing brother, resultantly appreciatDDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Because DrumLax is more offensively oriented than CurseLax, it requires a much more specific ~~host of supporting Pokemon to help get it in position to~~group of teammates to help it set up a sweep. GIn generally, DrumlLax's number one enemy is Skarmory, who walls it almost completely, b~~ut can be~~arring a 3HKOed by a ~~max. Toward this end~~Belly Drum-boosted attack. In order to deal with Skarmory, teammates such as Seismic Toss Heracross and Pursuit Tyranitar can chip away at Skarmory's HP and force it to Rest, therebyfore making it inactive for the two turns Snorlax needs to be able to kill Skarmory after a Belly Drum. Pursuit Tyranitar is ~~also basically~~ mandatory if Snorlax is only using a Normal-type attacking move, since Ghost-types ~~otherwise~~ completely wall Snorlax without Pursuit support to snipe them out. Furthermore, if DrumlLax is using Body Slam, it can synergize well with other physical sweepers such as Marowak and Machamp who thrive off of Drumlax's ability to paralyze Skarmory. DrumlLax also loves Heal Bell support ~~to allow it to use Rest to achieve~~so that it can use Rest to restore its full health, then immediately threaten to sweep without needing to wait out the two Rest turns. For this reason, Miltank and Blissey also make great partners, despite their shared Fighting-type weakness. Snorlax also hates taking unnecessary damage, as it prevents itSnorlax from safely pulling off a Belly Drum~~. To this end~~ sweep. For this reason, Starmie makes an excellent partner to remove Spikes via Rapid Spin. In addition, Raikou with Reflect can pass the defense boost Snorlax needs to set up in the face of Rock-types and Explosion users, and Pokemon such as Stun Spore Exeggutor and Thunder Wave Starmie can paralyze members of the opposing team ~~to allow Snorlax to use Belly Drum against and threaten to kill Pokemon that would otherwise prevent the use of Belly Drum by outspeeding Snorlax~~so that Snorlax has the chance to use Belly Drum against faster opponents. Teammates that can use Baton Pass to give Snorlax Agility boosts, such as Jolteon and Smeargle, also make excellent partners ~~that allow Snorlax to outpace foes that might otherwise stop a Snorlax sweep by lowering its health with faster attacks~~.

Snorlax can make use of Belly Drum in two ~~context~~different ways. The first is when it' is at full health, it can safely set up the move the way it was intended to achieve maximum attack at the cost of half of its ~~life~~health. This is the boost that allows Snorlax to break through stalling tactics. However, Snorlax can also use Belly Drum below half health to force the move to fail and activate the Belly Drum glitch, wh~~ereby~~ich causes Snorlax to gains a +2 Attack boost ~~at the cost of no life~~with no cost to its health. This boost is handy for when you don't have a Heal Bell user or can't afford to use Rest, but need an Attack boost to start cleaning up the opposing team. Always ~~know when you can pull~~be aware off ~~the glitch drum, and when~~when you and your opponent can pull off the glitch ~~drum,~~ so that you can grab a convenient +2 boost and ~~be able to avoid giving your opponent that convenient +2 boost, respectively.~~
simultaneously prevent your opponent from obtaining that same boost.

[SET]

name: MixLax
move 1: Double-Edge
move 2: Earthquake / Lovely Kiss
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Selfdestruct / Rest
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]


This set ~~gives up~~sacrifices almost all of Snorlax's defensive utility and ~~its~~ sweeping potential in order to ~~maximize burst~~utilize the element of surprise and instantly threaten just about everything in ~~GSC~~the GSC metagame. This set works mostly bydue to the surprise factor; most people expect Snorlax to use Rest andlong with some sort of setup move, leaving room for ~~at most~~ one coverage move~~. Thus, you can~~ at the most. This allows Snorlax to catch the opponent by surprise by using Fire Blast~~ing their~~ on Skarmory, and then nailing ~~their~~a Tyranitar switch-in with Earthquake~~, then when the~~. Once your opponent has figuresd out that ~~you're~~Snorlax is mixed, they'll probably switch to Suicune, Miltank, or their own Snorlax, at which point ~~you~~Snorlax can use either SelfDestruct for the kill or ~~use~~ Double-Edge to wear down these switch-ins. ~~As just described, this~~This variant of Snorlax is great for weakening half of an opponent's team and then subsequently ~~Exploding~~using Selfdestruct on a wall that they'd prefer to keep. Double-Edge is the preferred STAB because it gives you the most power~~; u~~. Unlike Frustration, Double-Edge is strong enough to 3HKO opposing Snorlax. Body Slam doesn't even 3HKO Zapdos, so its low damage output ~~simply does~~won't force switches the same way Double-Edge does, regardless of the paralysis chance. In addition, instead of using Earthquake for Ghosts- and Rock-types, you can opt for Lovely Kiss to go for the two-for-one 'Sleep-and-Explode' deal. Lovely Kiss is particularly useful for allowing MixLax to get past Growl Miltank and Charm Umbreon without having to use SelfDestruct specifically against them. The problem is that ~~you~~Snorlax won't be able to heavily dent Rock-types or Ghost-types without Earthquake, but ~~you shouldn't give up Fire Blast because~~Fire Blast is almost mandatory as Steel-tpyypes are more common than Rock-~~types~~ and Ghost-types, and because Skarmory would wall you forever regardless of Lovely Kiss. For a safer route, you could opt for Rest over the offensive potential of SelfDestruct to allow Snorlax to function more effectively as a wall.


[A~~dditional Comments~~DDITIONAL COMMENTS]


Again, MixLax thrives off the expectations of the opponent to do ~~its~~ damage, but even if you see it coming, it can be difficult to find a decent answer to MixLax because of its ability to do heavy damage to nearly any switch-in. Still, MixLax does have issues getting past some specific threats. Barring a timely critical hit, Snorlax is forced to ~~Explode~~Selfdestruct on Suicune, Miltank, and Umbreon in order to beat them;. Snorlax can also be forced to ~~Explode~~Selfdestruct on Zapdos or opposing Snorlax in order to beat them~~; and~~. In addition, despite having Earthquake, Snorlax can struggle against bulkier Rock-types and Misdreavus. Having Spikes support helps ~~to capitaliz~~Snorlax take advantage off the many switches ~~Snorlax~~it can force, ~~especially for~~ putting ~~these~~ troublesome Pokemon (except for Zapdos) into KO range for Double-Edge or Earthquake. Using other Exploders such as Cloyster and Exeggutor can also be useful for eliminating threats such as Zapdos that can otherwise do heavy damage to Snorlax ~~and make life difficult for it~~. Pursuit Tyranitar helps pick off Misdreavus and chip away at Zapdos to make life easier for MixLax. In addition, mixed sweepers such as Nidoking and Dragonite love Snorlax's ability to blow up on and kill any one of these threats. Miltank in particular makes many mixed sweepers' lives extremely difficult, and it generally isn't easy to target with Explosion. To use MixLax effectively, it's also important to cover the defensive threats that Snorlax usually steps in against ~~defensively~~. Sleep Talk Raikou, in particular, walls the Electric-types and Water-types that Snorlax is usually switched into. In general, tho~~ugh~~wever, MixLax isn't typically used for any specific offensive goal, and doesn't necessarily need any sort of specific support. It's is a self-sufficient offenseive threat that iworks best ~~used as an off-pitch~~as a lure in order to catch opponents off guard.

[Other Options]


~~Aside from the sets list~~Other than what has been mentioned above, a mixed attacker with Curse or Lovely Kiss as the fourth move instead of SelfDestruct can be an effective form of offense against ~~a lot of~~many teams. With Lovely Kiss, it gets past Miltank and Charm Umbreon~~, while w~~. With Curse, it has an easier time getting past Zapdos and Suicune. However, the lack of SelfDestruct on the mixed set really dampens Snorlax's ability to score ~~kills and force misplays in general~~surprise KOs and toy with the opponent. A mixed attacking Snorlax could also run Thunder ~~to ruin~~in order to destroy Cloyster switch-ins, while 2HKOing Skarmory and threatening paralysis against mixed walls such as Miltank and Suicune. However, Thunder leaves you in a bind against Steelix, unlike Fire Blast. Thunder is best used alongside Surf for this very reason; as an added bonus, it also screws Rhydon over, who is uncommon, but nonetheless one of the most reliable Snorlax counters in the game with its heavy damage output and meaty defense that prevents 3HKOs ~~at the hands of~~from Snorlax's unboosted Earthquakes. However, a Thunder and Surf mixed Snorlax finds itself in a bind against Ghost-types and Tyranitar, and relies heavily on Thunder paralysis to beat Suicune, Miltank, and Umbreon. Snorlax c~~ould~~an also run Toxic on sets with Double-Edge and Flamethrower ~~to effectively~~in order to spread Ppoison~~; Gengar, while~~ around the opponent's team. Although Gengar is immune to both Toxic and Double-Edge ~~while taking little~~and takes paltry damage from Flamethrower, it can't do much to Snorlax in return unless it Explodes, and will eventually succumb to ~~that weak~~ Flamethrower if ~~used as a simple~~continually used to wall Snorlax ~~wall~~. However, ~~Miltank and Suicune,~~ just as with many mixed Snorlax sets, Miltank and Suicune shut Toxic Snorlax down ~~almost~~ completely. 

Snorlax is capable of running Fire Blast or Flamethrower on Belly Drum sets to ~~instantly~~ threaten Skarmory switch-ins and possibly bluff a Curse set, since Snorlax will usually not use a Fire-type move on a Belly Drum set. ~~However, not having~~Unfortunately, the lack of Earthquake to hurt Ghost-types or OHKO Rock-types can be very frustrating for a DrumlLax that would otherwise be in position to sweep~~, and~~. In addition, the Fire-type move ~~can~~is often be unnecessary ~~since~~, as it is possible to put DrumlLax in a position tosuch that it can KO Skarmory with its boosted Normal-type STAB moves. Substitute is a usable, albeit unconventional, option for Curse~~lax to grant immunity to~~Lax in order to avoid the Attack-lowering effects of Growl and Charm, which can ~~otherwise~~ be used by Miltank and Umbreon to stall CurselLax out of PP. Lovely kKiss also allows CurselLax to get past Miltank and Umbreon~~, but~~; however, unlike Lovely Kiss, Substitute is not ruined by a timely switch to a Sleep Talk~~er. However, also unlike Lovely Kiss, Substitute is not very useful against~~ user. Substitute is also useless against most of Snorlax's other checks. Snorlax ~~also~~ makes good use of Counter on Belly Drum sets to punish foes ~~for~~that beat~~ing~~ down on it and to avoid being Pphazed while it is asleep. Shadow Ball and DynamicPunch are very niche coverage moves for very specific threats;. Shadow Ball 2HKOs Misdreavus without setup, but has little use outside of that specific matchup -, and Earthquake hits Gengar harder. On the other hand, DynamicPunch is more generally useful; it can ruin overconfident Tyranitar users who try to go for Rock Slide flinches, and also allows Curselax to confuse and possibly beat Miltank, Umbreon, and even paralyzed Skarmory. However, DynamicPunch leaves you helpless at the hands of Ghost-types and at the mercy of DynamicPunch's abysmal 8 PP and 50% accuracy. Aside from these aforementioned options, there really isn't anything else worth using in Snorlax's arsenal.

[Checks and Counters]


Skarmory is often touted as the #1number one check to Snorlax. It resists Normal~~, is~~-type moves, boasts an immuneity to Earthquake, has ~~unreal~~an unbelievable Defense stat, and can use Whirlwind to force Snorlax toout and relinquish its boosts from Curse and Belly Drum. However, Snorlax can ~~always~~ use Lovely Kiss or Fire Blast to beat it. ~~Since the #1 Snorlax check~~Because Skarmory is hardly a universal Snorlax check, at least two good answers to Snorlax are necessary for any competitive GSC team, especially ~~since~~as Snorlax can ~~always us~~utilize Lovely Kiss to put one of your checks out of commission. Aside from Skarmory, Steelix performs a similar role~~; u~~. Unlike Skarmory, it shrugs off even +3 Double-Edges, but it's still ~~horribly weak~~susceptible to Fire Blast and ~~can~~ takes a lot of damage from a boosted Earthquake. Rock-types such as Tyranitar and Rhydon don't like ~~having to take~~ Earthquake, but ~~can take~~they easily tank its Normal-type moves ~~like champs, can~~, use Roar to force Snorlax out, and can ~~always~~even use Curse up alongside ~~Curselax to threaten a counter-offensive. Misdreavus abuses~~Snorlax. Misdreavus takes advantage of its nNormal-type immunity and the fact that it ~~takes litt~~suffers negligible damage from ~~even~~ unboosted Earthquakes in order to switch into Snorlax and force it out with the threat of Perish Ttrap. However, ~~a switch to~~ Misdreavus loses ~~the game~~ if Snorlax is athe Belly Drum variant with Earthquake. Gengar is an interesting check; it's not exactly a good wall, but it can outspeed Snorlax even after an Agility boost toand then Explode on it ~~and save the game~~. It also gets Destiny Bond to take Earthquake variants down with it. Furthermore, it gets Ice Punch and Hypnosis to go for the Freeze while wasting the PP of CurselLax variants without Earthquake. Growl Miltank and Charm Umbreon make solid walls for Curse and Mixed variants of Snorlax, stalling out even the dreaded last-Poke CurselLax with ease~~, but~~; however, DrumlLax ~~absolu~~completely ruins their plans. ~~Furthermore, a~~ A well-timelyd Lovely Kiss allows Snorlax to beat these checks, regardless of ~~the rest of~~ its moveset. Suicune can take even a max-a Attack Return from Snorlax and then proceed to Pphaze it~~, and~~; it can also take ~~whatever~~anything that the mixed variants c~~hoose to~~an throw out. However, it does takes a lot of damage from Curse-boosted Double-Edges, so it isn't recommended as a primary Snorlax check so much as it is as a fallback. Explosion users such as Exeggutor, Cloyster, and Forretress can threaten to kill Snorlax or leave it irreparably wounded. Cloyster and Forretress in particular can survive anything that standard DrumlLax can throw at them and proceed to Explode in its face, which is very useful ~~in the worst-case scenario where~~should Snorlax manages to get an Agility boost passed to it. Finally, if one's own CurselLax uses Double-Edge, it can step in to check an opposing CurselLax. ~~One's own Curse Snorl~~CurseLax, regardless of the STAB move it chooses, can also check an ~~opposing~~y variant of Mixed Snorlax. Using CurselLax to check opposing Snorlax that forego Belly Drum is even easier if you use a variant with Sleep Talk, Lovely Kiss, or even Counter. On the offense, Marowak, Machamp, and Heracross make excellent double-switches in the event of an expected Snorlax switch-in. In addition, Vaporeon with Acid Armor sets up unabashedly in Curse ~~Snorl~~Lax's face, and with Hydro Pump, a single Growth is all it needs to 3HKO the big lug. Sunny Day Houndoom also 3HKOs Snorlax on the Special side after it sets up sun, and can also use Counter to punish it for attacking;. Snorlax fails to OHKO a ~~full-~~healthy Houndoom with a Curse-boosted Double-Edge, which means that many Snorlax variants will be forced to risk being killed by Counter in order to avoid being KOed by Fire Blast. A more conventional way to kill Snorlax, tho~~ugh~~wever, is to use a combination of Spikes and an Electric-type. Zapdos threatens to straight-up ~~kill~~KO Snorlax with ~~the~~a combination of Thunder spam and Spikes damage on the switch, whereas Raikou, with its slightly weaker Thunder and lower Physical defense, requires more finesse via the use of Roar to accumulate Spikes damage on Snorlax.

Again, I apologize for the ridiculously long wait, but I'm finally finished. I did not include a c/p version because I want you to look at all my changes carefully; there were a lot of simple capitalization errors as well as an overzealous use of semicolons. However, I do commend you on the content of the analysis. It was extremely thorough and an enjoyable read overall, despite a bit of redundancy.

[gp]1/2[/gp]

Jorgen · Jul 18, 2012

Bumping to let you know that I have not abandoned this, and that I'm very appreciative of the progress Omicron has made on the check thus far. I know it's quite a bit of text to trek through.

Jorgen · Jul 29, 2012

First GP Check from Omicron is implemented! Thanks a million for the thorough check.

Andy Snype · Jul 31, 2012

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[Overview]

Snorlax is the king of GSC, and anybody who dares question his rule will quickly learn the harsh reality of what the best Pokemon in the game can do. Snorlax is the best defensive tank in the game with a Curse set, and it is also the best stallbreaker in the game with a Belly Drum set. Snorlax is always an offensive and defensive boon to a team, and while it does have some unfortunate weaknesses (namely mediocre Defense, low Speed, and reliance on Normal STAB for damage output), its strong points make it the force that defines the GSC metagame. Seriously, Skarmory is only good because it walls Snorlax's most common sets, and the legendary electric-types run Thunder over Thunderbolt almost entirely because Thunder can threaten to KO Snorlax after Spikes damage or a critical hit. Snorlax is mandatory on basically every serious GSC team; honestly, he's that good.

[SET]

name: CurseLax
move 1: Double-Edge / Body Slam
move 2: Curse
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk / Lovely Kiss / Earthquake / Fire Blast
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]

The one and only CurseLax. GSC is where the whole concept of CurseLax originated, and it's also where CurseLax functions best. Unlike other Curse users, Snorlax's massive HP and Special Defense stats allow it to avoid being 3HKOed by any unboosted Special attack, thereby allowing it to Curse up to its heart's content in the face of Special moves that would break other Curse users on their unboosted Special side. As a result, CurseLax can usually only be stopped by phazing and stalling tactics rather than attacking it outright. Snorlax's standard Curse set uses Double-Edge as its preferred STAB attack, since the massive base 120 STAB attack can threaten switch-ins even before a Curse, do solid damage to foes that resist Normal-type moves after only one or two Curse boosts, and in the event that your own CurseLax has gotten into a Curse war with an opposing Snorlax, a 999 Attack STAB Double-Edge can 2HKO an opposing 912 Defense Snorlax with a critical hit, something that the next strongest Normal STAB attack, Return, cannot claim. For these reasons, the recoil, while occasionally a problem for Snorlax against strong Special attackers, is almost always worth the power. Other than the STAB move, Curse and Rest basically define this set; Curse is the set's namesake that raises Snorlax's already high Attack while patching up its weak Defense, while Rest provides the healing move that is mandatory for an effective wall.

While CurseLax is traditionally thought of as some sort of unstoppable monster capable of mowing entire teams down, the reality is that although nothing can switch in and immediately threaten an active, reasonably healthy Snorlax, there are several Pokemon that outright neuter its offensive capabilities. Normal-resisting Pokemon with Curse or a phazing move, such as Tyranitar and Skarmory, or Pokemon with high Defense and Growl or Charm, such as Miltank and Umbreon, can all easily bring CurseLax's gathered momentum to a screeching halt. The choice of CurseLax's fourth move reflects how one chooses to approach the fact that Curselax will inevitably be walled. Sleep Talk is for those who are content for Snorlax to be useless against Ghost-types and all Cursing or phazing Normal resisters, and opt to maximize Snorlax's defensive availability by allowing it to attack even while asleep. This is especially useful when walling attackers such as Nidoking and Zapdos, who can otherwise kill a sleeping Snorlax with a lucky critical hit and some smart play. Lovely Kiss is an amazing offensive tool that is extremely effective against a single threat. It can completely incapacitate one of Snorlax's chief counters, which is likely a Pokemon that does not use Sleep Talk. CurseLax can also choose among two prominent coverage moves to tackle Normal resisters. Earthquake gives it the ability to directly damage to Ghost-types and do heavy damage to Rock-types, whereas Fire Blast gives it the ability to get past Steel-types, and is usually preferred over Flamethrower because Fire Blast can OHKO Forretress and 2HKO Skarmory and Steelix. However, Fire Blast's 8 PP is easily exploitable, so Flamethrower can be used for its reliability, especially if you want to be able to slowly (but surely) KO Gengar without worrying about PP. With Fire Blast or Flamethrower, Body Slam becomes a viable STAB move of choice, allowing Snorlax to get past Miltank with parahax and paralyze the Rock-type switch-ins that can otherwise cause problems with Rock Slide flinches if they outspeed Snorlax.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Although CurseLax isn't an offensive behemoth from the get-go, it serves as an incredible all-purpose defensive tank capable of slowing down just about any offensive push the opponent might be attempting. That being said, Snorlax only lacks offensive strength because of the few common things that neutralize it (which, by the way, are only common because CurseLax is common). While it's difficult to outright KO many of these threats, the fact that Snorlax can force switches to these specific Pokemon can lead to an advantageous double switch. If the opponent is using a Ghost-type to wall Snorlax, you can double switch to Pursuit Tyranitar and put that Ghost-type in a bind. If it's drawing the likes of Miltank and Umbreon, you have a couple of options; a combination of Spikes damage and using Double-Edge on the switch can really put these two in a bind, forcing them to use a lot of Milk Drink or Moonlight PP and risk being KOed by a critical hit, or double switches to the likes of Machamp, Roar Raikou, and Vaporeon can allow for an instant offensive push. If the opponent is going to checks such as Tyranitar and Steelix, Vaporeon and Marowak make excellent double-switch candidates. If Skarmory is the check of choice, a double-switch to a mixed attacker such as Nidoking or Dragonite can keep your offensive momentum flowing.

One important note with regards to CurseLax is its potential as the last Pokemon. When Snorlax is the only Pokemon remaining on your team, phazing moves such as Roar and Whirlwind will fail, meaning that Skarmory and Tyranitar can no longer eliminate your Curse boosts with these moves. Last-Poke CurseLax, as it's called, forces stall teams to run tactics such as Curse Skarmory, Growl Miltank, or Perish Song Misdreavus to avoid losing to a CurseLax saved for the end of the game.

[SET]

name: DrumLax
move 1: Belly Drum
move 2: Body Slam / Return / Double-Edge
move 3: Earthquake / Lovely Kiss / Curse
move 4: Rest / Lovely Kiss
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]

Here is the game's best stallbreaker. You give up some of Snorlax's defensive potential and versatility with this set, since you are typically giving up the Defense boost and ease of use that Curse offers for the raw power that Belly Drum offers from a single turn of setup. This set generally maximizes the chance of a sweep. After using Belly Drum, a STAB move is necessary; Body Slam allows Snorlax to paralyze Skarmory and most likely 3HKO it after the Attack boost (36-43% damage). Frustration will guarantee the 3HKO on Skarmory (43%-51% damage) after using Belly Drum and can 3HKO Zapdos before using Belly Drum (34%-40% damage). Double-Edge, while risky due to its recoil, will most likely 2HKO Skarmory after a Belly Drum (51%-60% damage) and is Snorlax's most powerful STAB attack. The choice of STAB is largely a matter of preference since all three moves have their pros and cons, though Double-Edge is generally shunned for the safer STABs because the recoil makes it more difficult to maintain a sweep once Snorlax gets going. The third move depends on what else you want Snorlax to do. Earthquake gives it coverage against Ghost- and Rock-types, leaving only Skarmory able to wall you after a Belly Drum. Lovely Kiss will let you beat Skarmory and absolutely destroys teams that use only one Normal resister, though it does make life more difficult against Rock-types and makes Pursuit support mandatory in order to deal with Ghost-types. Curse is the safe option that makes the Snorlax sweep hardest to pull off, but also gives you a safe setup move to allow Snorlax to function better on the defense. Curse will also allow you to surprise opponents that try to stall you out with Growl Miltank and Charm Umbreon, as Belly Drum utterly defeats such stall tactics that otherwise work against CurseLax. The fourth move depends on what kind of team you're running. In general, you'll want to use Rest so that Snorlax has some room for error and function as a wall when you need it to. The beauty of DrumLax as opposed to other sweepers in GSC is its ability to Rest up to full health and come back later in the match to threaten to sweep again. However, if you're running a hyper-offensive team that focuses on passing Agility, you may want to forego Rest for Lovely Kiss to maximize Snorlax's offensive potential once it gets a Speed boost from Agility being passed to it. If you are using Lovely Kiss instead of Rest, Earthquake must be used in the third moveslot. 

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Because DrumLax is more offensively oriented than CurseLax, it requires a much more specific group of teammates to help it set up a sweep. In general, DrumLax's number one enemy is Skarmory, who walls it almost completely barring a 3HKO by a Belly Drum-boosted attack while it sleeps. In order to deal with Skarmory, teammates such as Seismic Toss Heracross and Pursuit Tyranitar can chip away at Skarmory's HP and force it to Rest, therefore making it inactive for the two turns Snorlax needs to be able to kill Skarmory after a Belly Drum. Pursuit Tyranitar is mandatory if Snorlax is only using a Normal-type attacking move, since Ghost-types completely wall Snorlax without Pursuit support to snipe them out. Furthermore, if DrumLax is using Body Slam, it can synergize well with other physical sweepers such as Marowak and Machamp who thrive off of Drumlax's ability to paralyze Skarmory. DrumLax also loves Heal Bell support so that it can use Rest to restore its full health, then immediately threaten to sweep without needing to wait out the two Rest turns. For this reason, Miltank and Blissey also make great partners, despite their shared Fighting-type weakness. Snorlax also hates taking unnecessary damage, as it prevents Snorlax from safely pulling off a Belly Drum sweep, making Starmie an excellent partner to spin away Spikes. In addition, Raikou with Reflect can pass the Defense boost Snorlax needs to set up in the face of Rock-types and Explosion users, and Pokemon such as Stun Spore Exeggutor and Thunder Wave Starmie can paralyze members of the opposing team so that Snorlax has the chance to use Belly Drum against faster opponents. Teammates that can use Baton Pass to give Snorlax Agility boosts, such as Jolteon and Smeargle, also make excellent partners.

Snorlax can make use of Belly Drum in two different ways. The first is when it is at full health, it can safely set up the move the way it was intended to achieve maximum attack at the cost of half of its health. This is the boost that allows Snorlax to break through stalling tactics. However, Snorlax can also use Belly Drum below half health to force the move to fail and activate the Belly Drum glitch, which causes Snorlax to gain a +2 Attack boost with no cost to its health. This boost is handy for when you don't have a Heal Bell user or can't afford to use Rest, but need an Attack boost to start cleaning up the opposing team. Always be aware of when you and your opponent can pull off the glitch so that you can grab a convenient +2 boost and simultaneously prevent your opponent from obtaining that same boost.

[SET]

name: MixLax
move 1: Double-Edge
move 2: Earthquake / Lovely Kiss
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Selfdestruct / Rest
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]

This set sacrifices almost all of Snorlax's defensive utility and sweeping potential in order to utilize the element of surprise and instantly threaten just about everything in the GSC metagame. This set works mostly due to the surprise factor; most people expect Snorlax to use Rest along with some sort of setup move, leaving room for one coverage move at the most. This allows Snorlax to catch the opponent by surprise by using Fire Blast on Skarmory, and then nailing a Tyranitar switch-in with Earthquake. Once your opponent has figured out that Snorlax is mixed, they'll probably switch to Suicune, Miltank, or their own Snorlax, at which point Snorlax can use either Selfdestruct for the kill or Double-Edge to wear down these switch-ins. This variant of Snorlax is great for weakening half of an opponent's team and then subsequently using Selfdestruct on a wall that they'd prefer to kill (unsure of what you meant by keep.). Double-Edge is the preferred STAB because it gives you the most power. Unlike Frustration, Double-Edge is strong enough to 3HKO opposing Snorlax. Body Slam doesn't even 3HKO Zapdos, so its low damage output won't force switches the same way Double-Edge does, regardless of the paralysis chance. In addition, instead of using Earthquake for Ghost- and Rock-types, you can opt for Lovely Kiss to go for the two-for-one 'Sleep-and-Explode' deal. Lovely Kiss is particularly useful for allowing MixLax to get past Growl Miltank and Charm Umbreon without having to use Selfdestruct specifically against them. The problem is that Snorlax won't be able to heavily dent Rock-types or Ghost-types without Earthquake, but Fire Blast is almost mandatory as Steel-types are more common than Rock- and Ghost-types, and because Skarmory would wall you forever regardless of Lovely Kiss. For a safer route, you could opt for Rest over the offensive potential of Selfdestruct to allow Snorlax to function more effectively as a wall. 

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Again, MixLax thrives off the expectations of the opponent to do damage, but even if you see it coming, it can be difficult to find a decent answer to MixLax because of its ability to heavily damage to nearly any switch-in. Still, MixLax does have issues getting past some specific threats. Barring a timely critical hit, Snorlax is forced to Selfdestruct on Suicune, Miltank, and Umbreon in order to beat them. Snorlax can also be forced to Selfdestruct on Zapdos or opposing Snorlax in order to beat them. In addition, despite having Earthquake, Snorlax can struggle against bulkier Rock-types and Misdreavus. Having Spikes support helps Snorlax take advantage of the many switches it can force, putting troublesome Pokemon (except for Zapdos) into KO range for Double-Edge or Earthquake. Using other Exploders such as Cloyster and Exeggutor can also be useful for eliminating threats such as Zapdos that can otherwise do heavy damage to Snorlax. Pursuit Tyranitar helps pick off Misdreavus and chip away at Zapdos to make life easier for MixLax. In addition, mixed sweepers such as Nidoking and Dragonite love Snorlax's ability to blow up on and kill any one of these threats. Miltank in particular makes many mixed sweepers' lives extremely difficult, and it generally isn't easy to target with Explosion. To use MixLax effectively, it's also important to cover the defensive threats that Snorlax usually steps in against. Sleep Talk Raikou in particular walls the Electric-types and Water-types that Snorlax is usually switched into. In general, however, MixLax isn't typically used for any specific offensive goal, and doesn't necessarily need any sort of specific support. It is a self-sufficient offensive threat that works best as a lure in order to catch opponents off guard.

[Other Options]

Other than what has been mentioned above, a mixed attacker with Curse or Lovely Kiss as the fourth move instead of Selfdestruct can be an effective form of offense against many teams. With Lovely Kiss, it gets past Miltank and Charm Umbreon. With Curse, it has an easier time getting past Zapdos and Suicune. However, the lack of Selfdestruct on the mixed set really dampens Snorlax's ability to score surprise KOs and toy with the opponent. A mixed attacking Snorlax could also run Thunder in order to destroy Cloyster switch-ins, while 2HKOing Skarmory and threatening paralysis against mixed walls such as Miltank and Suicune. However, Thunder leaves you in a bind against Steelix, unlike Fire Blast. Thunder is best used alongside Surf for this very reason; as an added bonus, it also screws Rhydon over, who is uncommon, but nonetheless one of the most reliable Snorlax counters in the game with its heavy damage output and meaty Defense that prevents 3HKOs from Snorlax's unboosted Earthquakes. However, a Thunder and Surf mixed Snorlax finds itself in a bind against Ghost-types and Tyranitar, and relies heavily on Thunder paralysis to beat Suicune, Miltank, and Umbreon. Snorlax can also run Toxic on sets with Double-Edge and Flamethrower in order to spread poison around the opponent's team. Although Gengar is immune to both Toxic and Double-Edge and takes paltry damage from Flamethrower, it can't do much to Snorlax in return unless it Explodes, and will eventually succumb to Flamethrower if continually used to wall Snorlax. However, just as with many mixed Snorlax sets, Miltank and Suicune shut Toxic Snorlax down completely barring a critical hit.

Snorlax is capable of running Fire Blast or Flamethrower on Belly Drum sets to threaten Skarmory switch-ins with instant damage and possibly bluff a Curse set, since Snorlax will usually not use a Fire-type move on a Belly Drum set. Unfortunately, the lack of Earthquake to OHKO Ghost-types and Rock-types can be very frustrating for a DrumLax that would otherwise be in position to sweep. In addition, the Fire-type move is often unnecessary, as it is possible to put DrumLax in a position such that it can KO Skarmory with its boosted Normal-type STAB moves. Substitute is a usable, albeit unconventional, option for CurseLax in order to avoid the Attack-lowering effects of Growl and Charm, which can be used by Miltank and Umbreon to stall CurseLax out of PP. Lovely Kiss also allows CurseLax to get past Miltank and Umbreon; however, unlike Lovely Kiss, Substitute is not ruined by a timely switch to a Sleep Talk user. Substitute is also useless against most of Snorlax's other checks. Snorlax makes good use of Counter on Belly Drum sets to punish foes that beat down on it and to avoid being phazed while it is asleep. Counter is also useful on CurseLax to allow it to KO another CurseLax by surprise. Shadow Ball and DynamicPunch are very niche coverage moves for very specific threats. Shadow Ball 2HKOs Misdreavus without setup, but has little use outside of that specific matchup, and Earthquake hits Gengar harder. On the other hand, DynamicPunch is more generally useful; it can ruin overconfident Tyranitar users who try to go for Rock Slide flinches, and also allows Curselax to confuse and possibly beat Miltank, Umbreon, and even paralyzed Skarmory. However, DynamicPunch leaves you helpless at the hands of Ghost-types and at the mercy of DynamicPunch's abysmal 8PP and 50% accuracy. Aside from the aforementioned options, there really isn't anything else worth using in Snorlax's arsenal.

[Checks and Counters]

Skarmory is often touted as the number one check to Snorlax. It resists Normal-type moves, boasts an immunity to Earthquake, has an unbelievable Defense stat, and can use Whirlwind to force Snorlax out and relinquish its boosts from Curse and Belly Drum. However, Snorlax can use Lovely Kiss or Fire Blast to beat it. Because Skarmory is hardly a universal Snorlax check, at least two good answers to Snorlax are necessary for any competitive GSC team, especially as Snorlax can utilize Lovely Kiss to put one of your checks out of commission. Aside from Skarmory, Steelix performs a similar role. Unlike Skarmory, it shrugs off even +3 Double-Edges, but it's still susceptible to Fire Blast and takes a lot of damage from a boosted Earthquake. Rock-types such as Tyranitar and Rhydon don't like Earthquake, but they easily tank its Normal-type moves, use Roar to force Snorlax out, and can even use Curse alongside Snorlax. Misdreavus takes advantage of its Normal-type immunity and the fact that it avoids being 3HKOed by unboosted Earthquakes in order to switch into Snorlax and force it out with the threat of Perish trap. However, Misdreavus loses if Snorlax is the Belly Drum variant with Earthquake. Gengar is an interesting check; it's not exactly a good wall, but it can outspeed Snorlax even after an Agility boost and then Explode on it. It also gets Destiny Bond to take Earthquake variants down with it. Furthermore, it gets Ice Punch and Hypnosis to go for the Freeze while wasting the PP of CurseLax variants without Earthquake. Growl Miltank and Charm Umbreon make solid walls for Curse and Mixed variants of Snorlax, stalling out even the dreaded last-Poke CurseLax with ease; however, DrumLax completely ruins their plans. A well-timed Lovely Kiss allows Snorlax to beat these checks regardless of its moveset. Suicune can take even a max Attack Return from Snorlax and then proceed to phaze it; it can also take anything that the mixed variant can throw out. However, it does take a lot of damage from Curse-boosted Double-Edges, so it isn't recommended as a primary Snorlax check so much as it is as a fallback. Explosion users such as Exeggutor, Cloyster, and Forretress can threaten to kill Snorlax or leave it irreparably wounded. Cloyster and Forretress in particular can survive anything that standard DrumLax can throw at them and proceed to Explode in its face, which is very useful if Snorlax manages to get an Agility boost passed to it. Finally, if one's own CurseLax uses Double-Edge, it can step in to check opposing CurseLax. CurseLax, regardless of the STAB move it chooses, can also check any variant of Mixed Snorlax. Using CurseLax to check opposing Snorlax is even easier if you use a variant with Sleep Talk, Lovely Kiss, or even Counter. On the offense, Marowak, Machamp, and Heracross make excellent double switches in the event of an expected Snorlax switch-in. In addition, Vaporeon with Acid Armor sets up unabashedly in CurseLax's face, and with Hydro Pump, a single Growth is all it needs to 3HKO the big lug. Sunny Day Houndoom also 3HKOs Snorlax on the Special side after it sets up sun, and can also use Counter to punish it for attacking. Snorlax fails to OHKO a healthy Houndoom with a Curse-boosted Double-Edge, which means that many Snorlax variants will be forced to risk being killed by Counter in order to avoid being KOed by Fire Blast. A more conventional way to kill Snorlax, however, is to use a combination of Spikes and an Electric-type. Zapdos threatens to straight-up KO Snorlax with a combination of Thunder spam and Spikes damage on the switch, whereas Raikou, with its slightly weaker Thunder and lower Physical defense, requires more finesse via the use of Roar to accumulate Spikes damage on Snorlax.

GP Approved (2/2)

Jorgen · Aug 5, 2012

Steven Snype's GP check is implemented. This is ready to ship out

Oglemi · Aug 5, 2012

uploaded

Snorlax (Update) [QC 2/2] [GP 2/2] [Finished]

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy

gumnas

formerly .Maguss.

Crystal_

danilo

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy

Crystal_

Loki

like seashells

Tamahome

startling sign

Crystal_

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy

Rakan

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy

Andy Snype

Banned deucer.

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy

Oglemi

I am but a flea