So how exactly does one get good at competitive battling?

StarmanXL

StarmanXL

I've been playing Pokemon since Red and Blue, but it was only this gen that I started to play competitively. I've adopted EV training. I know and understand IV's. I look at the standard movesets. I read the advice of the knowledgeable. When making teams, I develop a central strategy, consider my weakness, and try my best to account for them. I understand how the common and some of the uncommon pokemon work. I've learned a lot.

However, applying that knowledge is a whole different story. Frankly, I suck; I'm no good at prediction, and executing those strategies that I concoct is not as simple as it seems. I'm an average battler at best. I run a 50% win rate, and of those wins, I know that at least 70% of them were a result of my getting lucky, not my skill as a player.

Now, one would think that just playing more that one would eventually get better. However, this doesn't appear to be the case; I've played for a long time, but have gained little if any improvement. This is not an uncommon happening; for example, I've play SSBM since it's came out, and I've played it very frequently, but I still suck at it.

This leads me to believe that it's not how much I play, but how I play. Is there some kind of method of becoming better, some kind of specialized training? I know that doing research is important, and so is lurking, but I need help on the other part of battling, the actual battling. I don't want to keep sucking. Any suggestions?
 
I sucked at first too when i started battling then I just learned from other people.People have there own battle styles and understanding this well make you better
 
You'll know when you know them, there's a lot of basis in prediction and counterprediction that comes into play in competitive battling. A win isn't everything, sometimes losing 5-0 but understanding what part of your team is best at countering/diffusing threat xyz before it becomes a factor is better than winning 6-0 against a scrubby player.

What I find very important though is a thorough knowledge of the speed tiers list http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23432 and where your team falls under it, what things it can outspeed normally and what things it would be better off not trying.

Another important thing is knowing what your true hard counters in bad situations are. Do you have an explosion or destiny bond for when a gyarados gets out of hand? Do you have a scarf Icebeam or Ice Shard for a wounded but deadly +2 Swordsdance Garchomp? Do you have Mach Punch or Vacuum wave for Weavile/Tyranitar on a SD/DD spree?

there are many things to consider, but experience, straight grinding-the-number book knowledge, prediction, and creative outs are all very important aspects of competitive battling.
 
If you think that it's prediction that is hurting you, than the only thing that will give you that knowledge that you require is experience. You won't know what someone will do until you have observed patterns of what people usually do. It may sound dumb, but in this case, practice will actually help make perfect. All you need to do is battle. try to find the most experienced players that you can, even if that means, losing, in order to observe, analyze, and predict what your opponent will do next.
 
Run obvious combos (gyaravire) and predict like that. Once you can predict Earthquaks or Thunderbolts/punches using the Gyaravire, anticipating attacks from the opponent shouldn't be too hard.
 
It is only natural that if you if play against strong opponents, you will get stronger yourself. This applies to any game, even SSBM that you mentioned. Learn why you lose against strong opponents and what they do to succeed.
 
Put yourself in your oppenents position. Thats what I do most of the time. But if you know your oppenents a good player, think what he expects you to do. Example one time on PBR I was battling a Jolteon, I had my gyarados out. The oppenent was smart and knew I would think he was gonna use a thunderbolt on my gyarados. So me think he was gonna use one I switched out to my garchomp. He called that and used HP ice the turn I switched so my chomp died. You just have to think what your oppenent is gonna think you are gonna do. Thats what I do anyways.
 
StarmanXL said:
Sure, that sounds simple and all, but how do I get better at prediction? I mean, I know standard sets, but then there are the mind games.
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Analyze every peice of information given to you when the reveal a poke what moves its used, what set there probably running if its a common poke, to aid to this make sure you know alot about pokes(standard movesets, items usually held, stats, etc) , after analyzing this decide what is the best way to deal with this foe, who to sacrfice and who to keep in order to win, make sure not to forget any details it could end up costing you a pokemon and then the game, try to predict but never over predict, or if the risk is too high thin hard about the next move. things like this help.
 
If I was in your situation, I'd make a team of standard pokemon that I understood well, and battle asmany different players as I could with the SAME team. Just try not to play the same players again lol.

After you've played with that team for a while. (It took me a week or so to notice this) You'll start noticing patterns. For example: in the 3rd generation it was common to switch Celebi into Swamperts. So when you've switched into a Tyranitar with your Swampert, (for example) you can Ice Beam the incoming Celebi because you'll remember and recognize that pattern. You'll remember that an experienced player won't leave Tyranitar in against Swampert and you'll assume they're switching into their Swampert counter, and back then a lot of Swampert counters didn't fare too well against Ice attacks. You'd only do a decent amount of damage but it's better than Earthquaking it for LOL amount of damage. This is a bad example so I'll try another one with more relevence to DP battling.

Alright, so let's say you took my advice and built a standard team. Now let's say that your starter is a Choice Banded Heracross and your opponents is a Tyranitar. You'll remember most of the Tyranitars your opponents used and you'll know what it's capabilities are.(For the most part.) From your experience and from common sense, you know that Heracross easily OHKO's Tyranitar with Close Combat or Megahorn. But wait, you realize that your opponent knows this too and is expecting a Bug or Fighting attack. This is where prediction and mind games come to play. Since they're expecting one of these 2 attacks, you can safely assume that they'll switch in a flying pokemon in most situations to take on your Heracross. This would be a good situation to use Stone Edge in order to hit the incoming pokemon hard. If you can predict a Gyarados or Salamence switch-in like this, you can put tons of damage on them.

Sorry for the long post, and most people don't like reading long shit like this lol. The point I'm trying to get across to you is: get as much experience as you can under your belt. This will help you get much better at predicting your opponents moves and you'll start winning mind games eventually. Don't worry, I think every player that gets into competitive battling has it tough at first. Just don't make rash decisions and don't forget to execute your team strategy. Also, don't forget that many of Smogon's players have been playing competitively for years and can expect almost any move. There are also new players so you'll have a great range in battlers to play.

Good luck with everything, and hope I helped. :)
 
So I guess I just can't get discouraged...doesn't help that I'm morbidly pessimistic, but it's worth trying. I don't really wanna make a totally cookie-cutter team, though (or am I misunderstanding what you're saying by using a standard team?).
 
You might want to read the following documents as they are interesting and insightful but after reading them the most important thing is practice and gaining experience against decent players. Who cares if you lose every time because you'll learn from whatever mistakes you made and eventually improve.

Skarm's Prediction Basics:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=758&highlight=prediction

Mekkah's Long Term Thinking Article:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3840&highlight=prediction

Obi's Art of Psychological Warfare:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12206&highlight=prediction

Nate's Risk Reward Analysis:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12192&highlight=prediction

Another Risk Reward:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6737&highlight=prediction
 
StarmanXL said:
So I guess I just can't get discouraged...doesn't help that I'm morbidly pessimistic, but it's worth trying. I don't really wanna make a totally cookie-cutter team, though (or am I misunderstanding what you're saying by using a standard team?).
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You don't have to make a standard team. Hell, make it as creative as you'd like! I'm only suggesting that you use pokemon that you're familiar with to get the hang of the game. I only suggested that to help you learn about patterns and the easiest way to do that imo is through practice and using pokemon you know well.

Also, you really should check out the links Carl posted, they'll help you by a lot.
 
One point I'd like to make - when you can, always try and make the "safe" choice, which won't really hurt you no matter what happens. By this, I mean, if there's a DDtar with 2 DD's under it's belt and you send out a Breloom with Mach Punch, don't go predicting a switch to something flying and use Stone Edge, because if you're wrong then TTar will destroy you. If they switch to a flyer, at least TTar's dances are gone, and your team isn't totally screwed.

On the other hand, predicting your opponent's actions and responding to them as such will help as well. From your opponent's point of view, is it worth it to save TTar and switch to something like Gyarados, or take the small chance that you'll use something that won't be a OHKO and try to sweep anyways?

...Yeah, that didn't make a whole lot of sense. I guess the best thing to do is make sure you've got your bases covered, and get lots of experience to see what your opponents will do. In that sense, even the best player could be dominated by a decent player who simply predicted right.
 
Haha, rereading my posts in skarms thread I am shocked how poorly I was making my point there.. I guess I have learned something in the last year and a half or so!

But yeah, if you are having problems with prediction, my advice is to stop doing it altogether. It is the most overrated thing ever..

Have a nice day.
 
Use simple predictions at first.Like this team for example

Gyrados and electivire together.
Skarmory and Blessey
Ninjask
Mixed Sweeper

Yu'll lose alot of battles, but itwill make your pridition skills better
 
Well, I've done things like used Thunderbolt straight to a Garchomp because I know that the opponent will predict an Ice Beam and switch to something that can take it, and get totally blown up. It's not only your prediction, it's your opponent's as well.

And also, it's about your team as well. And depending on your team the common thing is not always the best thing (though it usually tends to be.) Good luck. :D
 
metroidmania said:
Well, I've done things like used Thunderbolt straight to a Garchomp because I know that the opponent will predict an Ice Beam and switch to something that can take it, and get totally blown up. It's not only your prediction, it's your opponent's as well.

And also, it's about your team as well. And depending on your team the common thing is not always the best thing (though it usually tends to be.) Good luck. :D
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Exactly! You can't predict what your opponent will do if you know that he's good. So you never have guaranteed success with predictions. Because a really good player might either leave that Parasect in against a Sala to Spore it, predicting your DD. Or they might play it safe and use HP Flying. So basically it depends on how willing the opponent is to take a risk at that point of time.

NOTE: Parsect/Sala references from Hipno's post in Skarm's prediction guide.
 
gmax said:
Exactly! You can't predict what your opponent will do if you know that he's good. So you never have guaranteed success with predictions. Because a really good player might either leave that Parasect in against a Sala to Spore it, predicting your DD. Or they might play it safe and use HP Flying. So basically it depends on how willing the opponent is to take a risk at that point of time.

NOTE: Parsect/Sala references from Hipno's post in Skarm's prediction guide.
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I assure you, a good player would have to be desperate to leave that parasect in.. Though, I guess use of parasect is pretty much a guaranteed loss, so they probably will be desperate pretty often..

But generally, just dont do any predictions like that.. They just arent worth it.

Have a nice day.
 
Also, try reading a good warstory, most warstory writers put down their thoughts down in-between turns of Pokemon attacks and switches. You can read what the player is thinking about, what s/he is planning and the reasoning behind their switches or why they chose an attack.

To a lesser extent, you can also watch Wifi battles on Youtube. There are some good ones where no one got owned.

As for SSBM, it's a fighting game, there's no way to get better but to NOT fight the computer and play good players. Without a nearby good player, the only way to get better is to constantly play with a friend who is about your skill level and improve together.
 
Or teams of Level 9's in Lighting Melee, or Slow-Mo Melee for getting the time of Wave Dashing, Teching or Shffl-ing.

Anyway, I'm more into Theorymon, but the thing is outpredicting. For example:

I have Weavile out, and the opponent has Weezing. The thing to expect is a Flamethrower or a WoW, so I'd better send Milotic out to absorb it and, if possible, get statused and becoming a great wall. But my Milotic has already been out in the field, so the opponent may preddict it and use a Thunderbolt, because it knows Weavile can't do anything to it. With that in mind, I switch to Electivire. It gets its speed boosted by the Thunderbolt, and now I switch to Milotic, because Weezing now wants to stop Electivire and will burn it.
 
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