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Solum's Core
- Thread starter Kevin Garrett
- Start date
Anyone who thinks Conkeldurr beats Gliscor after one Bulk Up has either never seen the team played correctly or is just using inaccurate theory.
As for Salac Berry on Garchomp, it's certainly not a bad idea. I don't really think it's for me because I try my best not to just use Garchomp in one clip unless it's late game. I will like to send it in early to force the opponent's hand. Leftovers comes in handy because after a couple turns I can get a Substitute back.
As for Salac Berry on Garchomp, it's certainly not a bad idea. I don't really think it's for me because I try my best not to just use Garchomp in one clip unless it's late game. I will like to send it in early to force the opponent's hand. Leftovers comes in handy because after a couple turns I can get a Substitute back.
Sorry man, but they're right Gliscor can't beat Conkeldurr 1 vs 1.
(Your Gliscor vs 252HP/252Atk Adamant Conkeldurr)
-Gliscor switch's into bulk up
-Gliscor taunts Conkeldurr, +1 Payback deals: 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Gliscor Swords Dances, Conkeldurr Paybacks again 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Gliscor Earthquakes for 34.8% - 41.3%, Conkeldurr Paybacks again 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Next turn Gliscor dies to +1 Payback
I think your experiences come from facing specially defensive Conkeldurr (which Gliscor can beat)
I agree with Badabing in using CM Reuniclus over Siglyph. I know this sounds harsh but I think its just plain worse than Reuniclus. Yes its got a ground immunity, decent speed and psycho shift but its piss poor weak and kinda frail before boost. Reuniclus is just a better pokemon in general. Its got more bulk, it also gets magic guard and hell, it can even run Psycho Shift Reuniclus to mess with Tyranitar & Scizor. That incredible bulk allows it to check Landlos & Garchomp, it destroys Conkeldurr and it can also check Birijion.
Just my 2 cents.
Interesting... i'll tell RD about this ASAP. (muhahahahahahah)
(Your Gliscor vs 252HP/252Atk Adamant Conkeldurr)
-Gliscor switch's into bulk up
-Gliscor taunts Conkeldurr, +1 Payback deals: 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Gliscor Swords Dances, Conkeldurr Paybacks again 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Gliscor Earthquakes for 34.8% - 41.3%, Conkeldurr Paybacks again 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Next turn Gliscor dies to +1 Payback
I think your experiences come from facing specially defensive Conkeldurr (which Gliscor can beat)
I agree with Badabing in using CM Reuniclus over Siglyph. I know this sounds harsh but I think its just plain worse than Reuniclus. Yes its got a ground immunity, decent speed and psycho shift but its piss poor weak and kinda frail before boost. Reuniclus is just a better pokemon in general. Its got more bulk, it also gets magic guard and hell, it can even run Psycho Shift Reuniclus to mess with Tyranitar & Scizor. That incredible bulk allows it to check Landlos & Garchomp, it destroys Conkeldurr and it can also check Birijion.
Just my 2 cents.
Interesting... i'll tell RD about this ASAP. (muhahahahahahah)
If you don't Taunt you save a whole turn of damage in your scenario. Then there is a coin flip on the next turn with Taunt if you think they will Bulk Up or accept their defeat. I don't see how you automatically lose.
I think what you mean to say is that max Attack Conkeldurr can beat Gliscor and Gliscor does beat Specially Defensive Conkeldurr.
A coinflip is still a coinflip no?
But anyway, if you don't taunt it you still lose:
-Gliscor switch's into bulk up
-Gliscor Swords Dances, Conkeldurr Paybacks 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Gliscor Earthquakes for 34.8% - 41.3%, Conkeldurr Paybacks again 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Gliscor Earthquakes for 34.8% - 41.3%, Conkeldurr Paybacks again 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Gliscor Earthquakes for 34.8% - 41.3%, Conkeldurr Paybacks again 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%) (Gliscor dies on this turn)
Gliscor can't kill you Conkeldurr before Conkeldurr can kill him. Also what do you think about Reuniclus?
But anyway, if you don't taunt it you still lose:
-Gliscor switch's into bulk up
-Gliscor Swords Dances, Conkeldurr Paybacks 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Gliscor Earthquakes for 34.8% - 41.3%, Conkeldurr Paybacks again 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Gliscor Earthquakes for 34.8% - 41.3%, Conkeldurr Paybacks again 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%)
-Gliscor Earthquakes for 34.8% - 41.3%, Conkeldurr Paybacks again 34.8% - 41.3% (-12.5%) (Gliscor dies on this turn)
Gliscor can't kill you Conkeldurr before Conkeldurr can kill him. Also what do you think about Reuniclus?
Extraordinary team + presentation, two errors in the type up --> You said that you get more 'bank' for your buck when you use Rotom-W's pain split, and you say that Politioed are unlikely to stay in against other 'Politoed' when I think you mean Rotom-W. I read through all of it and I can't wait to try it out, will report back later if I encounter any significant unmentioned threats (although it seems you are relying on jirachi to sponge some extremely powerful neutral special attacks that I am not sure it can handle).
edit: something interesting to note is that 4/6 of your team cannot touch substitute/disable gengar, so that may be a potential problem if tyranitar/rotom are out of the picture; of course it is just another case of your team is weak to z without x and y but still.
edit: something interesting to note is that 4/6 of your team cannot touch substitute/disable gengar, so that may be a potential problem if tyranitar/rotom are out of the picture; of course it is just another case of your team is weak to z without x and y but still.
Let's just take the average damage as 38%. Gliscor will Swords Dance and take a Payback. At the end of that turn it will have 74%~. After another Payback it will have 48%~. You see where this is going, it won't get a fourth Payback in. Am I missing something there?
Reuniclus sounds pretty interesting because it can check a lot of the stuff Sigilyph does. That's one thing that I look for when I think about possible replacement. If it can't hold down the fort the previous member did then it isn't a viable solution. I'll give it a try.
Yeah I screwed up with that scenario (sorry) Gliscor will always come out on top if he SDs. There's still a chance of a loss if you taunt or if Conkeldurr bulk ups on the SD. Its irrelevant since most players will payback Gliscor anyway.
Also, I messed up, Conkeldur deals (34.2% - 40.4%) with +1 Payback.
Also, I messed up, Conkeldur deals (34.2% - 40.4%) with +1 Payback.
yeah and with the scenario you guys arent using it right. It isnt swords dance and EQ twice what i saw KG do was swords dance twice then Eq once. it was enough for conkeldurr due to sandstorm and spikes and such
Needless to say, very nice team KG. Since Sigilyph is the most replaceable member, I've been thinking of what you might replace it with. Latias could be a good choice. It has pretty decent bulk, resists water while still resisting fighting and being immune to ground, and can outspeed and ohko Landorus with ice beam. It can also be used as a check to non-scarf Garchomp. It can even run grass knot/thunderbolt to deal with bulky waters. I haven't ran any calcs or even know what evs you would want to run, so this is all in theory.
I can see a huge problem against bulky Rotom-W in the rain.
Having access to thunder, it easily outclasses your current Rotom and 2hkos siglyph. will o wisps on your jirachi. Hydro pumps on both tyranitar and gliscor. Garchomp is a very risky counter against rotom.
As amazing as jirachi is as a special wall, one thing it cannot do is take repeated hydro pumps.Rotom -W's only recovery method, pain split, is unreliable. With 1 mispredict, Rotom could be out the game for good.
Scrafty is another threat. With bulk up drain punch ice punch rest. Not common, but you know how it is...
I can only propose Birijion to bear in mind as a possible spot on your team, though it could possibly ruin some synergy.
Having access to thunder, it easily outclasses your current Rotom and 2hkos siglyph. will o wisps on your jirachi. Hydro pumps on both tyranitar and gliscor. Garchomp is a very risky counter against rotom.
As amazing as jirachi is as a special wall, one thing it cannot do is take repeated hydro pumps.Rotom -W's only recovery method, pain split, is unreliable. With 1 mispredict, Rotom could be out the game for good.
Scrafty is another threat. With bulk up drain punch ice punch rest. Not common, but you know how it is...
I can only propose Birijion to bear in mind as a possible spot on your team, though it could possibly ruin some synergy.
Like the team, definitively going to try it out. Something's bothering me though.
It's Ninetales! I swear I see Ninetails all over the place.
Edit: Thanks! I­`ll be able to sleep tonight.
It's Ninetales! I swear I see Ninetails all over the place.
Edit: Thanks! I­`ll be able to sleep tonight.
I have an idea. You could swap Gliscor for Skarmory and Sigilyph for Reuniclus. With Skarmory, you can wall Landorus and Garchomp, 2 pokemon that are deadly for this team. You would, however, be weak to Conkeldurr. But since you would also change Sigilyph for Reuniclus, you can still cover it. Sturdy Skarmory could also be a last-resort counter for Volcarona, if you manage to get its health at max.
After trying this team out for 2 days, I found that heavy stall walls it to death.
I was fighting a team of Heal Bell Blissey, Cursed Body Taunt Jellicent, CM + Roar Latias, Spikes + WW Skarmory, CM Virizion, and Ice Fang Hippowdon
I, no matter what I tried, could NOT the get upper hand in that match.
I use Tyranitar, they'd send in Jellicent and stall till Cursed Body activated once they saw I didn't have Crunch and they eventually burned me with WoW.
I use Garchomp or Jirachi, they'd send in Skarmory and setup and WW me out.
I use Sigilyphm they'd send in Jellicent and Taunt me. With 2 CPs, Stored Power was doing peanuts for damage.
I use Rotom, they send in Latias and setup on me and Roar me out. Even if I send in Tyranitar, Latias would just Roar him out or setup on his weak Pursuit.
I use Gliscor, they'd use Hippowdon and Ice Fang me. And only Rotom can really switch into that Hippowdon because of it. T-tar & Jirachi fear EQ and Garchomp, Sigilyph, & Gliscor couldn't take more than 2 Ice Fangs. I tried to burn him with Psycho Shift, but he'd just switch to his Sigilyph counter; Jellicent.
Blissey only switched in once the whole game and that was just to take a turn to clear it's team's statuses.
It was just a revolving door of hard counters and I couldn't do anything about it. Maybe if Garchomp had Fire Blast, it wouldn't have been that bad, but he just doesn't have a move slot for it.
I think it would really be worth your time to look into a stall-breaker that could take Rotom's place. He feels like the weakest link of the team outside of battling Rain teams. And he's no real help against stall. He can Pain Split Blissey & Chansey, but they'll just heal it off and Toxic him.
Problem is, I can't think of anything that could be a good replacement for Rotom-W without taking away the major assets he gives to the team, especially since he's part of the core.
I'm sure you can think of something or just changing a Pokemon. I'll keeping testing new things for now.
I was fighting a team of Heal Bell Blissey, Cursed Body Taunt Jellicent, CM + Roar Latias, Spikes + WW Skarmory, CM Virizion, and Ice Fang Hippowdon
I, no matter what I tried, could NOT the get upper hand in that match.
I use Tyranitar, they'd send in Jellicent and stall till Cursed Body activated once they saw I didn't have Crunch and they eventually burned me with WoW.
I use Garchomp or Jirachi, they'd send in Skarmory and setup and WW me out.
I use Sigilyphm they'd send in Jellicent and Taunt me. With 2 CPs, Stored Power was doing peanuts for damage.
I use Rotom, they send in Latias and setup on me and Roar me out. Even if I send in Tyranitar, Latias would just Roar him out or setup on his weak Pursuit.
I use Gliscor, they'd use Hippowdon and Ice Fang me. And only Rotom can really switch into that Hippowdon because of it. T-tar & Jirachi fear EQ and Garchomp, Sigilyph, & Gliscor couldn't take more than 2 Ice Fangs. I tried to burn him with Psycho Shift, but he'd just switch to his Sigilyph counter; Jellicent.
Blissey only switched in once the whole game and that was just to take a turn to clear it's team's statuses.
It was just a revolving door of hard counters and I couldn't do anything about it. Maybe if Garchomp had Fire Blast, it wouldn't have been that bad, but he just doesn't have a move slot for it.
I think it would really be worth your time to look into a stall-breaker that could take Rotom's place. He feels like the weakest link of the team outside of battling Rain teams. And he's no real help against stall. He can Pain Split Blissey & Chansey, but they'll just heal it off and Toxic him.
Problem is, I can't think of anything that could be a good replacement for Rotom-W without taking away the major assets he gives to the team, especially since he's part of the core.
I'm sure you can think of something or just changing a Pokemon. I'll keeping testing new things for now.
I have only had trouble breaking stall against players that have plenty of experience playing against this team. It is very easy to wear them down with burn and Sigilyph, Garchomp, and Gliscor. It's not a slam dunk, but it gets the job done more often than not. If they don't have Heal Bell or Aromatherapy they are in trouble. Even if they have it, you still have a chance to win. It's all a matter of applying pressure at the right times.
This is a great team, but what items would you use if item clause were on?
He wouldn't play if item clasue was on
I know, but what if item clause were on?
Pretty nice team, but just a few things to note:
Jirachi Can't beat Magnezone with that set. Eventually, flash cannon will lower your Sp.def enough for hidden power fire to bring you down. Also, thunderbolt/thunder will paralyze you as well, which may screw up a turn where you absolutely have to wish.
CB Terrakion can power through this team with stealth rock support. He has the ability to 2HKO Gliscor with stone edge assuming SR is up, and Gliscor can't OHKO back with earthquake. This is even more possible considering the fact that your Gliscor lacks protect, meaning your poison heal recovery will be delayed a turn, which is enough to keep him from successfully fending off Terrakion.
Thundurus and Politoed also look a bit troublesome, though Thundurus is usually kept at bay by trivial things such as SR/SS/LO damage, and Politoed can't immediately force his way through Rotom-W. Still, I feel you should always have a back up plan for big threats like these, since its wishful thinking to assume all of your pokemon will be at full health mid-late game.
Jirachi Can't beat Magnezone with that set. Eventually, flash cannon will lower your Sp.def enough for hidden power fire to bring you down. Also, thunderbolt/thunder will paralyze you as well, which may screw up a turn where you absolutely have to wish.
CB Terrakion can power through this team with stealth rock support. He has the ability to 2HKO Gliscor with stone edge assuming SR is up, and Gliscor can't OHKO back with earthquake. This is even more possible considering the fact that your Gliscor lacks protect, meaning your poison heal recovery will be delayed a turn, which is enough to keep him from successfully fending off Terrakion.
Thundurus and Politoed also look a bit troublesome, though Thundurus is usually kept at bay by trivial things such as SR/SS/LO damage, and Politoed can't immediately force his way through Rotom-W. Still, I feel you should always have a back up plan for big threats like these, since its wishful thinking to assume all of your pokemon will be at full health mid-late game.