OU SPL XI - RBY Discussion Thread

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I've noticed Reflect has become really popular on teams recently. Also, loved the Sandslash battle. It's always nice to see something different and also challenge as well as any of the regular OUs.
 

Hipmonlee

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I'm curious if anyone thinks that twaving that Tauros with Jolteon could be a possible move for Nails?

My take is that basically no one could ever make that play. I cant see how you could ever have confidence that your opponent has even considered it.
 

Amaranth

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I'm curious if anyone thinks that twaving that Tauros with Jolteon could be a possible move for Nails?

My take is that basically no one could ever make that play. I cant see how you could ever have confidence that your opponent has even considered it.
I don't think I ever implied that he was definitely thinking about it, I'm pretty sure I always brought it up as a 'what if', and I'm pretty sure I said it would be a visionary, third eye, infinite IQ sort of play to make in the video.

That said, it's definitely a scenario that could cross my mind as I think through the turns. If I'm Nails and I think about what my opponent can do here, I think Tauros on DKick prediction is definitely an option, and if you call that then you always TWave. I'm not sure if Nails considered it - I can't read his mind and we didn't discuss this specific passage - but I think reads like those are definitely within the realm of the realistic, even if they're obviously quite rare. I can't say I would have clicked it, but I can comfortably say that I've made predictions of that sort in practice games at the very least, not sure about the big stage


edit: also, big up to the guy who went out of his way to dislike the video, i'm sorry my content wasnt up to your standard whoever u are, would like to hear your feedback lul edit2: its two now! you guys are epic :D
 
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Amaranth

is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion
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Good video. Your English is better than I expected lol. I'd like to see more RBY on Youtube. Battles, discussions, guides, whatever you (or anyone else) feels like doing.
Thanks! I've thought about doing some form of RBY content for a long time but never quite had the motivation to sit down and actually make it - only get it on rare occasions when I'm really excited about the game and this was one of such occasions. If I get positive feedback I might go for more though, I don't mind sitting down and monologuing about RBY for an hour generally speaking
 

Hipmonlee

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I didnt mean to imply that you were suggesting he might predict that. I just though its a really interesting case where the correct move is basically completely impossible to make. I was curious if anyone could make the case that you could actually play it.

Like a lot of the time when people say things like "you cant do x" its absolutely not true. But, this does seem to be a good example where it is.
 

EB0LA

Banned deucer.
WEEK 8 GAMES:
  • [SHRK] Genesis7 VS. ErPeris [RUIN] [1][2][3]
  • [CLAS] Amaranth VS. Nails [BIGS] [1][2][3]
  • [CRYO] HML am VS. rozes [WOLF] [1][2][3]
  • [TYRN] Heroic Troller VS. Bedschibaer [SCTR] [1][2][3]
  • [TGRS] Kaz VS. MetalGro$$ [RAID] [1][2][3]

WEEK 8 USAGE STATISTICS:
Leads / Combos / Moves + Teammates
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Chansey            |   22 | 100.00% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Snorlax            |   21 |  95.45% |  52.38% |
| 3    | Tauros             |   20 |  90.91% |  45.00% |
| 4    | Starmie            |   18 |  81.82% |  55.56% |
| 5    | Exeggutor          |   11 |  50.00% |  54.55% |
| 6    | Rhydon             |    7 |  31.82% |  57.14% |
| 6    | Alakazam           |    7 |  31.82% |  42.86% |
| 8    | Jynx               |    5 |  22.73% |  60.00% |
| 8    | Jolteon            |    5 |  22.73% |   0.00% |
| 10   | Cloyster           |    3 |  13.64% |  33.33% |
| 11   | Articuno           |    2 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Zapdos             |    2 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Sandslash          |    2 |   9.09% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Gengar             |    1 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
| 14   | Lapras             |    1 |   4.55% | 100.00% |
| 14   | Slowbro            |    1 |   4.55% |   0.00% |
 

EB0LA

Banned deucer.
WEEK 9 MATCH-UPS:
[CLAS] Amaranth VS. MetalGro$$ [RAID]

[TGRS] McMeghan VS. HML am [CRYO]

[RUIN] ErPeris VS. Kevin Garrett [SCTR]

[WOLF] rozes VS. VS. Nails [BIGS]

[SHRK] Genesis7 VS. Heroic Troller [TYRN]
 

EB0LA

Banned deucer.
WEEK 9 GAMES:
  • [CLAS] Amaranth VS. MetalGro$$ [RAID] [1][2][3]
  • [TGRS] McMeghan VS. HML am [CRYO] [1][2][3]
  • [RUIN] ErPeris VS. Kevin Garrett [SCTR] [1][2][3]
  • [WOLF] rozes VS. Nails [BIGS] [1][2][3]
  • [SHRK] Genesis7 VS. Heroic Troller [TYRN] [1][2][3]

WEEK 9 USAGE STATISTICS:
Leads / Combos / Moves + Teammates
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Snorlax            |   20 | 100.00% |  50.00% |
| 1    | Chansey            |   20 | 100.00% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Tauros             |   18 |  90.00% |  44.44% |
| 4    | Starmie            |   15 |  75.00% |  40.00% |
| 5    | Exeggutor          |   13 |  65.00% |  46.15% |
| 6    | Alakazam           |   10 |  50.00% |  50.00% |
| 7    | Rhydon             |    5 |  25.00% |  40.00% |
| 8    | Cloyster           |    3 |  15.00% |  66.67% |
| 8    | Gengar             |    3 |  15.00% |  33.33% |
| 10   | Jolteon            |    2 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 10   | Zapdos             |    2 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 10   | Lapras             |    2 |  10.00% |  50.00% |
| 13   | Porygon            |    1 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 13   | Moltres            |    1 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 13   | Articuno           |    1 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 13   | Jynx               |    1 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 13   | Flareon            |    1 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
 

EB0LA

Banned deucer.
REGULAR SEASON (Weeks 1-9) USAGE STATISTICS:
Leads / Combos / Moves + Teammates
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Snorlax            |  219 |  99.55% |  50.23% |
| 2    | Chansey            |  215 |  97.73% |  49.30% |
| 3    | Tauros             |  212 |  96.36% |  48.11% |
| 4    | Starmie            |  170 |  77.27% |  48.24% |
| 5    | Exeggutor          |  158 |  71.82% |  49.37% |
| 6    | Alakazam           |   94 |  42.73% |  52.13% |
| 7    | Rhydon             |   53 |  24.09% |  37.74% |
| 8    | Jynx               |   40 |  18.18% |  45.00% |
| 9    | Jolteon            |   30 |  13.64% |  56.67% |
| 10   | Zapdos             |   27 |  12.27% |  44.44% |
| 11   | Cloyster           |   23 |  10.45% |  65.22% |
| 12   | Gengar             |   21 |   9.55% |  57.14% |
| 13   | Lapras             |    9 |   4.09% |  55.56% |
| 14   | Articuno           |    5 |   2.27% |  60.00% |
| 15   | Sandslash          |    4 |   1.82% |  75.00% |
| 15   | Slowbro            |    4 |   1.82% |  50.00% |
| 17   | Persian            |    3 |   1.36% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Golem              |    2 |   0.91% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Moltres            |    2 |   0.91% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Porygon            |    2 |   0.91% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Victreebel         |    2 |   0.91% |  50.00% |
| 22   | Hypno              |    1 |   0.45% | 100.00% |
| 22   | Dragonite          |    1 |   0.45% | 100.00% |
| 22   | Kabutops           |    1 |   0.45% |   0.00% |
| 22   | Flareon            |    1 |   0.45% |   0.00% |
 
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Ortheore

Tournament Banned
Damn as much as I like jolteon, getting more isage than zapdos in the regular season is pretty unexpected.

Bel has really fallen from grace it seems. That's kind of an interesting conundrum in terms of tiering, since it looks like it belongs back in 2u now. It's crazy how volatile this mon has been over the past year, could it potentially swing again?

Bro and Lap's usage was really low, they fell on the wrong side of a significant dropoff after Gar. I haven't been following actual gameplay that closely, but I can only assume they're being crowded out by Star, which seems to have somehow gotten even more popular, which is saying something
 
Damn as much as I like jolteon, getting more isage than zapdos in the regular season is pretty unexpected.

Bel has really fallen from grace it seems. That's kind of an interesting conundrum in terms of tiering, since it looks like it belongs back in 2u now. It's crazy how volatile this mon has been over the past year, could it potentially swing again?

Bro and Lap's usage was really low, they fell on the wrong side of a significant dropoff after Gar. I haven't been following actual gameplay that closely, but I can only assume they're being crowded out by Star, which seems to have somehow gotten even more popular, which is saying something
That’s because it’s bad as an egg replacement, particularly when rhydon is so common.

I think what’s bigger is egg dropping below zam in usage. Does this mean it’s now just a big 3? Or do people think it’s just a phase and egg will rise again. Personally I think it’s a phase, just like the bel surge. People will pick rhydon more and more if the trend persists and people will be punished too hard for not having egg. It’s as if people have forgotten one of the original reasons egg became meta was to wall rhydon after landing sleep.
 
Victreebel was never an eggy replacement the same way Starmie isn't, they have different roles. Saying that people stopped using Victreebel because it doesn't do well Exeggutor's job is just plain wrong, it never did in the first place. Rhydon being common doesn't matter either because it was a good reason to run the wrap teams if anything. What really killed Victreebel was the trend of dropping Exeggutor (slower mon that he could just wrap) for the likes of Starmie or Alakazam. Teams like Nails Starmie (not taking para t1)+Alakazam were the doom of Victreebel, because the team relied on Snorlax booming last mon but can't handle TWO fast psychics, and Chansey is likely to get boomed.
 
Damn as much as I like jolteon, getting more isage than zapdos in the regular season is pretty unexpected.

Bel has really fallen from grace it seems. That's kind of an interesting conundrum in terms of tiering, since it looks like it belongs back in 2u now. It's crazy how volatile this mon has been over the past year, could it potentially swing again?

Bro and Lap's usage was really low, they fell on the wrong side of a significant dropoff after Gar. I haven't been following actual gameplay that closely, but I can only assume they're being crowded out by Star, which seems to have somehow gotten even more popular, which is saying something
I still think Victreebel is comfortably 1U, I see it as more of a Slowbro type figure now, there are metagame conditions where it can really shine and ones where it can be really cockblocked, it's usage will probably rise again
 

Hipmonlee

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I think one other thing about Victreebel, is that a year ago a lot of people (even some of the top players) simply didnt have a lot of experience with playing against Wrap, and as a consequence it was getting a few extra wins that it probably ought not to have. These days people are much more organised when facing it.

Still a good mon, definitely deserves a B rank. It works very well in unusual builds. I think it might benefit from people being a little more creative with how they use it rather than just always dropping egg and using it with mie don.
 
Tricky data: Cloyster has the only glaring win rate (but a low usage) and Rhydon is the only pokemon with a bad one, everything else is without infamy and without praise.
Also, it would be cool to investigate on how forfeits influence win rates - that's got to be the reason behind Tauros' win rate too.
Wow, Starmie (and Alakazam) finally stopped the Victreebel craze, don't know what happened with electrics though: water types just won this battle.
I still hope Slowbro will be viable again, it could be the right time.

All in all, this kinda looks like 2015 again but Golem and PhysLax are nowhere to be seen and sorely missed. Jolteon and Psychic Starmie as 6th are so 2015.
 
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