Metagame SV Monotype Metagame Discussion [Teal Mask]

[DugZa]

Welcome to the Monotype metagame discussion thread for the Teal Mask DLC!
Monotype on Showdown​

Monotype is a really simple concept; you build a team of six Pokemon sharing one common type and fight against teams with the same restriction. You are allowed to use Pokemon with dual-typing on a team represented by either type, but every other Pokemon must share at least one type with the dual-typed Pokemon. For example, you can use Grimmsnarl, a Dark- / Fairy-type Pokemon, on a Dark or Fairy team. If you choose Grimmsnarl, you can also use Roaring Moon (Past Paradox Salamence), a Dragon- / Dark-type Pokemon, and create a Dark team with the two of them, but you cannot use Noivern, a Flying / Dragon type Pokemon, on that team because it does not share a type with Grimmsnarl and Roaring Moon.

Using six Pokemon of the same type can lead to some interesting team archetypes, and it challenges teambuilders to make sure the common weaknesses a certain type of Pokemon share are covered as best as possible. This metagame allows for all kinds of Pokemon to be viable against top threats, so be imaginative. As you play, you'll find many unique threats that aren't common in the usage based tiers.

The Monotype metagame features builds from all playstyles—Offense, Balance, and Stall. The playstyle will often reflect the Pokemon available on that type. For instance, there are many strong offensive Fighting types, but the type lacks reliable defensive Pokemon. As such, a Stall Fighting-type team is hard to make, while Offensive Fighting is more likely to be viable. The best Monotype players build and play a wide variety of types, using teams that capitalize on the strengths of an individual type. Forcing your favorite type into an archetype that it will struggle to pull off is a good way to lose matches and get frustrated!

Tiering and Discussion
Monotype has its own tiering, which is based on the tiering philosophy. The metagame is led by a 9-man council, each with an equal say in tiering decisions.

You may find the current banlist in the Monotype entry on the Smogdex.

This thread is meant for discussion—not just requesting bans! That said, if you feel anything not on these banlists is too overpowered for the meta, this is the place to discuss it. All tiering discussion should be framed within the context of the Monotype Tiering Philosophy, which you can find below. Additionally, if you want to recommend a Pokemon for suspect testing, include some evidence and reasoning why you think said Pokemon is broken. Just saying something like, "I think Kyurem-Black should be banned because it has base 170 Attack." is a post that will get deleted, and it won't get you taken seriously. Back up your claim with replays showing how the Pokemon is overpowered in practice. Tell us how it interacts against other types/playstyles, what checks and counters it, its role on the team type(s) where it's played (going back to the Kyurem-Black example, how does it play on Mono-Ice vs. Mono-Dragon?), and so on. If you need any advice or have any questions on things you think are broken but are unsure what the best way to post is, contact a member of the Monotype Council either through message or on Showdown in the Monotype room.

As a final thought, before you post, think about what you're saying and whether it adds anything to the conversation or sparks discussion. If not, add to it until it does. Let's make an effort to have fun while keeping a certain level of mature conversation!

Special note: This thread is for metagame discussion, not tiering philosophy discussion. If you would like to propose a policy change then please start a private message with the members of the Monotype council. If the council would like to field general discussion on the tiering philosophy then it will make a post requesting input from the community. In this thread, we encourage people to share their thoughts on elements that they think could be potentially unhealthy in order to help balance out the metagame.

Here is the list of new Pokemon being released with the DLC:

• Dipplin
  
  -
  
  
• Poltchageist
  
  -
  
  
• Sinistcha
  
  -
  
  
• Okidogi
  
  -
  
  
• Monkidori
  
  -
  
  
• Fezandipiti
  
  -
  
  
• Ogerpon
  
  -
  
  (Four different formes with different typings: Teal Mask:
  
  -
  
  , Hearthflame Mask:
  
  -
  
  
  , Wellspring Mask:
  
  -
  
  
  , Cornerstone Mask:
  
  -
  
  
  )

Moreover, this is the list of previous Pokemon returning in the DLC:

​

As described in the tiering information, this DLC is by far one of the most impactful mid-generation change as it reintroduces many previous metagame staples to the tier, thus shaking up Monotype's metagame by a ton. In this thread, we encourage people to share their thoughts on elements that they think could be potentially unhealthy in order to help balance out the metagame.

 

[Dead by Daylight]

Shaymin-Sky needs to go, and I don't think I need to elaborate. Darkrai should also be gone. Besides those two, though, nothing strikes me as banworthy. Ogerpon and the Loyalty Trio seem balanced (and Poison and Grass get some nifty new tools). Shell Smash Torterra could become a threat on Grass. Tail Glow Manaphy from past gens seems really good as well for Water, and Mamoswine is a nice pickup for both Ice and Ground. Ice gets Alolan Ninetales back as well, which it really appreciates.

 

[TTK]

Hello my Monotype community. Today I'm going to sort out the information for DLC1, tell you what mons came back, what new moves they have just so we can have a place to discuss how this is going to affect our metagame.

Bug

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: None

Noteworthy changes:
- Knock Off
- Knock Off, Dual Wingbeat
- Toxic

Dark

Returning Pokémon: (#freedarkrai)
New Pokémon: None

Noteworthy changes:
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Flip Turn
- Defog, Toxic
- Poltergeist

Dragon

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: Dipplin

Noteworthy changes:
- Scald, Knock Off, Flip Turn
- Scald
- Toxic (NOT HISUI)
- Knock Off
- Scale Shot

Electric

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: None

Noteworthy changes:
- Toxic
- Knock Off

Fairy

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: Fezandipiti

Noteworthy changes:
- Knock Off
- Misty Explosion
- Vacuum Wave

Fighting

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: Okidogi

Noteworthy changes:
- Knock Off
- Vacuum Wave
- Ice Spinner

Fire

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: Heartflame Ogerpon

Noteworthy changes:
- Poltergeist
- Toxic
- Aura Sphere, Knock Off, Drain Punch

Flying

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: None

Noteworthy changes:
- Spikes/Toxic Spikes (no roost though)
- Gravity
- Knock Off

Ghost

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: Sinistcha

Noteworthy changes:
- Poltergeist
- Knock Off, Toxic

Grass

Returning Pokémon: (free skymin)
New Pokémon: All Ogerpon, Dipplin, Sinistcha

Noteworthy changes:
SHELL SMASH LETS GO. HEADLONG RUSH TOO
- Wind Rider
- Poltergeist
- Grassy Glide, High Horsepower
- Poltergeist
- Superpower, Knock Off, Defog
- Knock Off
- Toxic, Knock Off
- Toxic

Ground

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: Bloodmoon Ursaluna

Noteworthy changes:
SHELL SMASH LETS GO. HEADLONG RUSH TOO
- Gravity
- Smack Down
- Spikes/Tspikes
- Scale Shot
- Knock Off
- Toxic, Knock Off

Ice

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: None

Noteworthy changes:
- Knock Off
- Scale Shot
- High Horsepower

Normal

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: Bloodmoon Ursaluna

Noteworthy changes:
- Tidy Up
- Poltergeist
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Scale Shot
- Smack Down

Poison

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: Fezandipiti, Okidogi, Munkidori

Noteworthy changes:
- High Horsepower
- Scald
- Toxic
- Defog
- Psychic Fangs, Scale Shot, Knock Off

Psychic

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: Munkidori

Noteworthy changes:
- Knock Off
- Toxic and every new TM
- Vacuum Wave

Rock

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: Cornerstone Ogerpon

Noteworthy changes:
- Knock Off
- Dual Wingbeat

Steel

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: None

Noteworthy changes:
- Roost, Flip Turn
- Knock Off, Dual Wingbeat, Bug Bite
- Knock Off

Water

Returning Pokémon:
New Pokémon: Wellspring Ogerpon

Noteworthy changes:
- Flip Turn
- Roost
- Knock Off
- Tail Glow, Take Heart, Hydro Pump
- Defog
- Scald

I haven't updated all of the Noteworthy changes for each type (there's a lot to go through, I have things to do) but some of you probably know a lot already so we can discuss it now.

EDIT 1: Most of the types have been updated here
EDIT 2: Information for every type, if I missed anything, there's a lot tbf
EDIT 3: Was updated throughout the day, also sorted a bit more s/o diegoblu for mentioning Knock Off duplication

 

[Neko]

Cat thoughts, may be wrong:

• Big Winners
  • Ice finally gets a competitive weather setter and entry hazard setter. We'll finally see the ugliness of Baxcalibur (now with Scale Shot too!) under snow and screens more often. It also gets a Hatterene + Fluttermane check in , which is stonks.
  • Poison gets its immunity core back in , and Okidogi seems poised to be a decent steelkiller with a Bulk Up set, which was briefly touched on by the monotype room. Glimmora's days might be numbered, or maybe not, if it proves to be better than Salazzle in the Corrosion Toxic game.
  • Fairy getting Knock Off is huge for Fairy as it allows Azumarill to only spend a move to break Steel and Poison teams simultaneously. also helps in entry hazard stacking, or can go over Hatterene with a Calm Mind set if desired, letting it target matchups that arent Water better. Vacuum Wave might also do waves, notably killing Chien-Pao and picking off the odd Iron Treads. Knock Off might also be decent on removing items on Alolan Muk, though do you really want to lock into that move?
  • Ground between the return of to ease the Flying matchup, getting Gravity, and getting a special attacking form (and Vacuum Wave to beat Chien-Pao), Ground might prove to be one of the top 3 types in the DLC metagame.
• Notable shifts in composition
  • Dark finally gets defog in , which frees up Chien-Pao and gives dangerous breakers like the aforementioned Cat, along with Hoopa-U more time to wreak havoc.
  • Dragon having access to Knock is quite useful, making Garchomp's Spikes more impactful. getting Scald and Flip Turn lets it be more punishing, and forms a Flip-Turn core with the aforementioned Roaring Moon. getting Scale Shot also shakes up the SD set, though it has to forgo Ice Shard for this. Kommo-o provides an alternative entry hazard setter that can check Kingambit, or use Clangorous Soul with Vacuum Wave and Flamethrower.
  • Flying gets (now with Spikes!) and Knock off on genies not named Landorus, making a bulky playstyle much more annoying to handle.
  • Grass gets an Ogrepon to toy with, which has access to Swords Dance and some form of recovery with Horn Leech. Fire Ogrepon has Mold Breaker to cudgel Heatran (though its not an OHKO at +2) and has enough bulk to not get OHKO'ed by Chien Pao's Icicle Crash. It cannot hold an item though. also gets access to Poltergeist, allowing it to finally do something to opposing Hurricane users like Zapdos. with Shell Smash is also great, allowing it to break through Poison teams with ease (run Heavy Slam for G.Weezing, which dies at +2, while Amoonguss folds to +2 Headlong Rush if boosted with Soft Sand). gets Grassy Glide back, though it doesnt really seem still worth running.
  • Water gets an (F-Dry check) with Roost, a very bulky Wishpasser in , and to smash Poison (it also gets Scald to no u Alolan Muk). Flip Turn comes back for and , and Knock off makes less bad. How do you fit all of these though? I dont know
    • Toxapex is also dead dead with no Scald nor Knock Off so...
• Sidegrades
  • Ghost Poltergeist's distribution is not bad, can now victimize a Gholdengo trying to come into its Defog and gets a better Ghost STAB.
  • Steel gets access to , a fast soft uwu for something like Urshifu-R, but honestly just stick to Worm or Hoodra until we get Ferrothorn back. It also lost Moonblast btw
  • Psychic gets Scald / (has Chilly Reception btw), a good rocker in , and uhh Vacuum Wave on a lot of Pokemon ( and , notably). gets Knock Off, Scald, and Poltergeist, but still no recovery....aside from Drain Punch and the like anyway. Scarf Jirachi beats both Flutter Mane and Chien-Pao and provides Healing Wish, a huge boon to HO Psychic teams.
  • Bug Knock Off lets it use a better move over throat chop (though its anti-Skeledirge properties would be missed), with Knock Off also means its not useless vs Gholdengo now and has Dual Wingbeat which lets it 1v1 Toxapex to improve the Poison matchup. ....could do webs, but there's not really much.

DLC1 seems to be shaping up to be an interesting meta, I hope we all have fun meow!

 

[TheWyvernKing]

My day 1 thoughts have me wanting a bax ban even more than a skymin ban rn

 

[Havens]

quickfire rapid thoughts about each type in one sentence or less:

Bug: Vikavolt being back is a fantastic boon to a type that was honestly missing a 6th mon to solidify its core.
Dark: As if dark needed any more utility; so much stab knock distribution AND Mandibuzz is back to add flexibility.


Dragon: l̵̜̊͒̑̂̎͋̏̇̑͆̓̅̊̈o̴̡̮̖̙͉̫̻͖̲̲̻͂͗̈͆̆̊̓̿̕͜ã̶̡̢͇̮͇d̴̠͉̮͖͙͈̆̓̍̀́̌̊̌̊͝é̴̤̤̈́͂d̷͉͍̝͖͙͉̯̖̼͙̮̞̣̾̅̄͌̀̐͑͌̾̂̄̋̅͊͜ ̶̛̛̲̫̪̳̦̦̙͋̾̑̈́́͑̈́d̴̛̬͓͊͑͐͐͌͒͗͛̈̆̆̕̚͠ï̵̻͖̉͠c̴̪̹͈̻̭̫͚̦̥͕̘͔̿̈́̊͌͝è̷̦̰̺̹̙̺̖̋ ̷͚̀̾̿͐͌̚b̶̡̦̘͍͔̤͖͉͖͎͛̃̔̆̎̓̐͊̈̌̕̚͝͝͝a̵̡͗̈́̏͂̓̾̌̋́͂͑̓̈́̽̌͜x̶̢̧͍͇͇̣͚͎͂͂̉̊̅̈̈́̉͊̈́̾ͅͅc̴͈̪͉̱͕͕̰̳͇̦̿̎̈́̓̏̚ą̶͈̖͚̜̯̫̅̉̎͐̔͐̓̐͌̓͗͜͜l̷̛̰̮̻͎̲͍̣̫̥̂̾̑̀̾͒̃̈́́̉́̏͝͠ì̵̧̛̛̟͍̳̗̼̯̣̰̦̮͈̹̏͆̎̒̑̇̀̕b̴̢̫̱̲̲͕̖͂̓ư̵͚̦͇̮̝̳͊͒r̷̊̓̓̉̓͑̆̎̀̎̔͘


Electric: Alolan-Golem is fine I guess, Electric's sadly not the most playable without Tapu Koko.
Fairy: For as much as Fairy got in this DLC, having knock back on Azumarill is the big winner imo.
Fighting: It's so good to have Infernape back.
Fire: It's so good to have Infernape back.
Flying: Gliscor returning to Flying after last generation feels bizarre to me; it's offensive movepool now is insane, but the cost for it was Roost.
Ghost: Poltergeist distribution on many physically offensive ghosts are neat; sucks to be Dragapult though.
Grass: Ogrepon + Shaymin-Sky; name a more iconic duo.
Ground: Mamo + Gliscor + Ursaluna variants are either welcomed old friend and neat additions to an honestly solid Ground core.
Ice: My personal pick to be the best type in the tier given time; too many fantastic additions to name and it's pleasant to see Ice be a meta type after having the short end of the stick for so many generations.
Normal: Much needed additions, but simply not enough for this tier; it's arguably a bottom 3 type in the tier.
Poison: Biggest growth in terms of viability between Home and DLC; getting Weezing-G and all three new titans immediately make it a middle-of-the-pack type for me.
Psychic: Jirachi, Munkidori, and the re-additions of utility like Scald Slowbro and Knock Off Mew make Psychic so much more playable now; pre-dlc it felt like the type struggled to find footing in what it's identity could be besides Espathra + Hatterene + 4 supporting characters.
Rock: Alolan Golem, Ogrepon-C, and Knock Off Tyranitar make it much more playable; still not fantastic, but i'm willing to argue it's not a bottom-of-the-barrel type.
Steel: After 5 generations of Pokemon, Empoleon can finally roost, but at the cost of Scald and Defog.
Water: Too wavy.


Thoughts on problematic mons/commentary on what I'd like to see in the new DLC:

- I'm still vouching for action on Chien-Pao. The mon itself was already bonkers, now it's supported on its secondary type that's as equally viable. Between snow defense boosts, Aurora Veil and such, I can safely say that Chien-Pao is, has, and will be the most potent and enabled offensive threat Monotype has had in the past few generations; reminds me of Gen 7 Magearna given how long it's stuck around.

- I'd like to see Iron Bundle get a redemption arc. I'd like to believe that with what's been made available in this dlc, Iron Bundle is more manageable than with how shafted we were at the beginning of the generation. Even if it's just for a re-suspect, I'd like to see it to believe it.

- On the topic of Ice types, I'd like to believe Baxcalibur, specifically loaded dice baxcalibur will be ugly long term. Having snow + Aurora veil on a very strong, physically offensive pseudo-legend that can't be burned as a result of Thermal Exchange may be the next great powerhouse in the tier. Conversely, Alolan Ninetales is a strong enabler for both offending Ice-types now, would not be surprised if action towards alolan ninetales would be in order.

- There's a legitimate world where one of Darkrai or Shaymin-Sky are legal, I think. Definitely not both. That being said, I'd like to think that, for as strong as they have been in past generations, this generation is offensively lopsided between gutted utility, recovery, and accessibility in mons. There are at least 10 pokemon in the tier now that are more threatening than either/or; and half of them naturally outspeed both.

-Manaphy will be very strong. Having Take Heart (Legends Arceus move: CM + Refresh) to make Manaphy a better Crocune type build or running Tail Glow 3 attacks does a metric crap ton, especially considering the onus of SpDef walls in the tier are limited to Goodra-H, Alolan Muk, and Slowking. Both I think are very good and Manaphy might end up being a staple mon, at the very least a mon with strong viability.

 

[Rebelpyroflame]

OK, throwing my hat in the ring for my beloved poison types.

first off, this is a very good dlc for poison. Getting our first legendary trio and galar wheezings grand return are really good signs. Let's see how they measure up against their competition.

First up, Gheezing Vs Glummora. Both serve the very niche of hazard removal but take it two different ways, Wheezing with bulk and defog and Glummora with speed, power and mortal spin. While I will say removing one set of hazards while poisoning is very useful, the rest of our precious little rocks build works against it. It's poor bulk means it's hard to safely swap in, toxic debris is nice, but only works on physical moves and cha lucky if they actually survive. Gheezing is a defensive tank, self healing and has two vital immunitys. there is no feeling as sweet as swapping into a Draco meteor or an earthquake and seeing it do literally nothing. Amoonguss might have been our best defence before, but he appreciates someone who can take the strain off his back. This spot belongs to Gheezing, no doubt. Don't worry though Glimmora, I've always said cfd
ha were a better offensive Mon, maybe this will give cha a chance to shine properly, especially with the threat of corrosive Toxic.

This neatly takes us into the poison fairy round. I've already talked about wheezing once so here's Fezandipiti. I'm not gonna lie, when I first saw him I was hyped "oh boy, a legendary, looks like a poison flying type, I bet that's why they didn't include crobat or wheezing. I bet it will learn defog, finally a ground immune hazard removal with roost probably. oh, toxic chain is awesome, I can't wait to see a toxic threatening u-turner”. let's just say I was consoled when I found out galar Gheezing was returning after all (all the leaks I had seen said wheezing not galar). To be fair, he is good, nice offensive typing, decent stats and movepool, two good abilities in toxic chain and technician, I can see this bird making moves. But if cha read my previous sentence cha can guess how this coins gonna drop. Gheezing does more for poison on a mono team, but I imagine Fezandipiti will be more at home in a standard team, can't say what tier but he will be something to watch out for.

Now for the reverse reaction. Okidogi was the guy I was least excited about on release. However, when I actually saw it's stats and moves then it's actually got some potential. It's rival sneasler is a great team member, and these two go day and night in their approaches. Sneasler is fast, hits hard, has crazy status potential but ain't taking a counterblow at all. Okidogi on the other hand, he may be slow, but he'll take anything cha can throw and hit back harder. He actually has potential as a good lead, he has taunt and the bulk to use it, his alternative ability guard dog shuts down intimate plays and escape button shenanigans, alternatively a knock off that threatens to toxic is something that we will all come to fear, drain punch for recovery then either bulk up for set up or a wide selection of moves (admittedly not the greatest options, but some high power moves like superpower or counter) for the last slot. They are surprisingly closely matched, and it's going to be interesting to see who ends up on top.

Finally the middle child Monkidori. I've never had strong feelings for or against him. Poison/psychic is a decent offensive/defensive type, his stats make him an ok sweeping option. Too bad his competition is one of the best poison types ever made. Glowking has better offensive and defensive stats, regenerate is amazing recovery, I'm sorry monkey boy but it's no contest. I'm sure cha will find a niche, but I don't think cha OU material.

Notable other mentions. Arbok gets some nice options, I don't think he'll make monotype but I'm sure lower tries will be swept by him. Dragle getting scald is good, but he does better as dragon utilities that poison power.

Let me know cha thoughts and if I missed anything.

 

[Pengairxan]

Let me know cha thoughts and if I missed anything.

I'm going to give some other slight mentions that you missed.

Skuntank is somewhat back thanks to Knock off. While no where near as a good with AMuk still sludging around, it offers a more speedy dark for Poison with Knock off + Sucker Punch and keeps all of its great prehome tools like Fire spin, Toxic spikes, and Play Rough. Its still likely the worse but I hold firm that its not that bad.

Toxicroak is a similar story. Sneasler is still better (Sad days for me) but Knock Croa has given me, the Toxicroak nut, some hope that we've still got a niche as the goofy one (Sucker, Knock, Drain punch, SD here we come).

Araidos has Sticky webs for the hyper offense Poison nuts out there. Venomoth fans crying in agony, more at the direct.

Also to expand on Munkidori. Munki's big problem isn't just with Glowking sharing a type as a they fill two different roles, one is a special tank the other is a special attacker so they could reasonably be together.
The problem for Munki is that its coverage is limited to Grass knot, Focus blast and Shadow ball while its competition for the special attacking role is Gengar and Iron moth which are both faster, have more coverage including some really important tools like Thunderbolt/Discharge which helps massively for flying. Munki will likely see use as a pivot role with parting shot and U-turn or as a Stored Power sweeper.

Also Arbok gonna be fun in Tier shift once it falls a fair few tiers, can't wait for my Discount DDance sweeper.

 

[DugZa]

First round of tiering updates for the brand new metagame is up: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cheat-code-teal-mask-dlc-tiering-update.3727873/

We encourage further discussion on the new metagame and to share your thoughts about the new (and some old) Pokemon in the metagame; expect subsequent quick ban waves in the near future.

 

[TheWyvernKing]

"Let's unban Annihilape"
Presenting Screens Ghost: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9customgame-1943499122-jcwpd1mya3sb9uxbbdpv5uuc65roqa0pw
Shoutout to Vodoom for helping me test this lmfao

 

[TheRealBigC]

Out of interest, how come the Council didn’t vote on whether to unban Booster Energy as part of their recent voting slate, especially when clearly absurd mons like Magearna and Calyrex-Ice were on the table?

 

[Day Healer]

 

[Roughskull]

As someone who's played Normal from release (before Zoro-H even existed) I can definitely say it's come a long way and has a well rounded MU overall. This is just what I've gathered so far and still learning:

I'm going to flat out say Ursaluna-Bloodmoon is an incredible addition to Normal as thanks to Moonlight making it be able to extend its longevity (unlike Ursaluna-base) and Mind's Eye which makes Steel, Poison, Rock, and Ghost MUs very nice. It's incredibly bulky defensively and It's only real resistance is Corviknight since anything Blood Moon is resisted by gets hit by a mean Earth Power instead. Not to mention it gets Vacuum Wave too! Chien Pao and Kingambit has been a huge threat against Normal and it eases that MU a lot (I had to use Close Combat Braviary before-hand)

Another fantastic addition to Normal is Ambipom, thanks to its speed and Technician it can always get in a very strong Fake Out and pivot out nicely right after. I like to use Boots as being able to come in safely on hazards is nice to get some damage in. I definitely wouldn't advise pairing with Indeedee for obvious reasons but with its tools in Fake Out, Knock, and U-Turn it's reliable overall in keeping momentum and last slot can be your preference (I use taunt).

Even though Meloetta was already here since Home. Scarf Meloetta has been a nice illusion bait for Zoro as both use very similar moves in Shadow Ball, Psychic even Hyper Voice and Trick which can provide good mind games against the opponent especially when both are choice item users. I like to use U-Turn on my Meloetta for the chip helps and it can provide safe pivoting into my options.

Regular Ursaluna despite being a little outdone still proves itself the strongest physical breaker on Normal and does well with Shed Tail and Healing Wish support being able to stay a strong physical attacking menace.

I think Braviary doesn't get much recognition since it's no Staraptor. However it still does it job well and can ease the fighting MU with help from Zoro and Meloetta/Indeedee. Sneasler and Zamazenta are on the scarier end when facing fighting and Braviary helps out against them a bunch. It also can run U-Turn to keep momentum going for the team.

Blissey is still a very good spdef sponge but I do feel it's not needed as much anymore but it's always a good option to have.

The types I've personally struggled the most against is Fire, Flying, Dark, and SS Water (Without Arboliva). The potential for Normal is very much there and I can say it's definitely not a type you can easily get in a pinch this gen but it's been very fun to use.

 

[insertkoin]

I know it is very soon to ask something like this but… what are the top types after dlc1? Is ice really that powerful?

 

[Pengairxan]

I know it is very soon to ask something like this but… what are the top types after dlc1? Is ice really that powerful?

While figuring out the top type post DLC1 is going to be awhile since bans still need to happen, Ice really did get a ton of oomph.

Alolan ninetales is a much better hail setter than Aboma was since it is faster, superior special bulk and a much more manageable quad weakness to Steel compared to Fire along with a better defensive profile (neutral to fighting with the ability to respond with Moonblast, not weak to flying or bug and has a Dragon immunity). Bax gained Scaleshot meaning SD Loaded Dice Baxcaliburs are now even stronger since they've got two STABs that hit 4~5 times and deal heckin chonkers amount of damage with one being able to increases its speed which was the main issue with running SD Bax before, Slush Rush Sandslash is a solid spinner and isn't the momentum drag Avalugg was. Oh, and Chien Pao is still in the tier which is good for it.

It also helps that Grass also got a ton of new toys to play with in the form of Ogerpon, Shaymin Sky, and Shell Smash Torterra meaning that was it everywhere along with Shaymin Sky making people play a lot of flying as well. So people countered that by playing a lot of Ice.

 

[Ethereal Sword]

My first post on the forums :)

I wanted to talk about a Pokemon that perhaps has gone a little under the radar. That Pokemon is Fezandipiti, the Poison/Fairy member of the Toxic Chain trio, and probably the least used among them. With that said, however, it is the only one of the three that has any access to multi-hit moves, and in particular Beat Up. Testing seems to indicate that each individual hit has a chance to inflict toxic poison, giving a 6-hit Beat Up an 88% toxic chance. Notably, this method of inflicting Toxic cannot be blocked by Magic Bounce nor stopped by Taunt. Beat Up also deals some damage on its own.

toxic chances

# hits	probability of inflicting toxic
6	0.8823
5	0.8319
4	0.7599
3	0.657
2	0.51
1	0.3

In terms of Fezandipiti's own merits, it has good 88/82/125 bulk, 99 speed, and access to moves like Roost, Taunt, and U-Turn. This means that it can potentially fit on bulkier Poison or Fairy teams (as Beat Up is most effective when all allies are healthy). Even more offensive teams may work, as Fezandipiti can act as a pivot while Beat Up's power is higher with more attack-oriented teammates. That said, on Poison in particular, it may face competition from Weezing-G as a Poison/Fairy mon and so it may be hard to fit on a team.

potential Fezandipiti set

Fezandipiti (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Beat Up
- U-turn
- Roost
- Taunt

I have personally been using Stall Poison with Fezandipiti, and it is a fun though somewhat situational mon to use. I intend to try more offensive teams as well.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this!

 

[Aschmaros]

The nightmares...they're returning

 

[CaptainDaimyo]

I know it is very soon to ask something like this but… what are the top types after dlc1? Is ice really that powerful?

Yep ice is really good. Having a strong hazard remover in the form of alolan sandslash was a big W for ice. Alolan Ninetales is perhaps the most crucial part to Ice's success, since the defense boost under snow + additional damage reduction via Veil really benefits Bax

I've also been hearing abt how good Dark and Ghost are rn. Dark got Mandibuzz back so you have a more reliable way to remove hazards (aside from predicting hazards using a Sableye Taunt), plus Darkrai is perhaps one of the best offensive scarfers for dark due to Sludge Bomb outspeeding offensive Fairies + Trick to weaken walls

And for ghost, yea check the meme above me

 

[Aschmaros]

You know, I've actually been enjoying myself. Way more than previous gens. It actually feels like the DLC this time around really shook things up, and not just cemented the "status quo". Outside of Ape (BAN APE BAN APE BAN APE), nothing feels overly too ridiculous. I'm curious to see how the meta changes because of this. Its nice seeing types like Ground, Grass, Ice and even Fire being ran more and actually having better MUs in general. Hope this continues

 

[Dragapult]

Ogerpon masked formes' passive damage buff is officially live on PS as of this post.

252 Atk Hearthflame Mask Mold Breaker Ogerpon-Hearthflame Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Mandibuzz: 177-208 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Blaziken Flame Wheel (manually set to 100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Mandibuzz: 147-174 (34.7 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[RoyalReloaded]

Hi, I wanted to share this paste of sets that I made for new Pokemon - https://pokepast.es/03c6032c39677092
If a Pokemon isn't here, that means it probably isn't super good, some of the Pokemon on here are already somewhat fringe already. There could of course be something I missed or something we later discover has a place in this metagame, but I didn't want to spend loads of time theorycrafting considering this is only day 3 of the meta. Hopefully this resource can help newcomers and experienced players alike use the new Pokemon and discover what works and what doesn't work for them.

wont go super detailed into anything else but annihilape should be banned, urshifu dark and bax / light clay should be on a watchlist. curious to hear what everybody else has been using and how they're enjoying the metagame

 

[Dead by Daylight]

Hi, I wanted to share this paste of sets that I made for new Pokemon - https://pokepast.es/03c6032c39677092
If a Pokemon isn't here, that means it probably isn't super good, some of the Pokemon on here are already somewhat fringe already. There could of course be something I missed or something we later discover has a place in this metagame, but I didn't want to spend loads of time theorycrafting considering this is only day 3 of the meta. Hopefully this resource can help newcomers and experienced players alike use the new Pokemon and discover what works and what doesn't work for them.

wont go super detailed into anything else but annihilape should be banned, urshifu dark and bax / light clay should be on a watchlist. curious to hear what everybody else has been using and how they're enjoying the metagame

Thank you for your service.

Just a few things that I wanted to point out:

a. Ogerpon's Mask forms might also want Swords Dance sets like below.

SD Ogerpon-Masked

Ogerpon-Masked (F) @ Mask of Choice
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ivy Cudgel
- Horn Leech / Power Whip
- variable between forms (Hearthflame and Wellspring want Knock Off for utility, Cornerstone wants Superpower for Steels)

b. Hypnosis merits a slash for Alolan Ninetales over Moonblast or Encore, as it gives Baxcalibur and Frosmoth more opportunities to set up. Darkrai could also potentially use Hypnosis (I'm a believer), but it's probably not the best.

c. I just don't see Okidogi's value as a Scarfer considering Sneasler exists. It's useful, certainly, but a Bulk Up set should probably be the way to go.

Bulk Up Okidogi

Okidogi (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot / Knock Off (thanks to Dragapult for the suggestion)
Probably should run some Speed EVs. With Knock Off, it can beat Steel teams much easier (although Gunk Shot is a nice STAB option to hit Fairies).

d. Rest merits a slash on Manaphy for Rain teams (probably over Energy Ball), as it easily does away with Stall thanks to being able to heal away all the chip damage bulkier teams can muster.

e. Stone Edge should be on Torterra's set, as it allows it to be an annoyance to Flying teams after a Shell Smash as well as potentially break down Corviknight. Body Press also has anti-synergy with Shell Smash, as it doesn't get boosted with its first use and gets weakened after, as well as not hitting many targets other than Dark-types (which have Sableye to take care of Torterra anyways), Steel-types (which Headlong Rush + Stone Edge handles anyways), and Ice-types which fold to +2 Stone Edge. Sure, its accuracy is a letdown sometimes, but it's a pretty good coverage move for Torterra.

+2 Stone Edge vs. Corviknight

+2 252+ Atk Torterra Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Corviknight: 184-217 (46 - 54.2%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This might not seem like much, but keep in mind that Corviknight only does 30% back and can be forced to waste Roost PP for something else to break through. Additionally, you can Shell Smash again on a predicted Roost and guarantee the 2HKO.

Annihilape should be suspected at the very least, if not quickbanned. Darkrai and Urshifu-S I'm fine with, although there are a few arguments that can be made against them.

 

[Dragapult]

Knock is much better than Gunk Shot on Bulk Up Okidogi.

Ogerpon-T is unviable. The cost of not running one of Hearthflame or Cornerstone is way too high and Ogerpon-T does not get the passive damage boost of the elemental formes.

 

[juleocesar]

Not everyone has been talking about this, but here's a set I've been enjoying a lot on Monotype Grass recently:

Set

Sinistcha-Masterpiece @ Leftovers
Ability: Heatproof
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Strength Sap
- Matcha Gotcha
- Iron Defense / Substitute / Scald

Sinistcha is the defensive win condition Grass players needed but didn't know they wanted. Great bulk, Heatproof (which gives it neutral to fire moves) and access to one of the best recovery moves in the game (Strength Sap), as well a great signature move in Matcha Gotcha (20% chance to burn + 50% recovery), it can run a mono attacking set and act as a very effective cleaner in the late game, especially with Aurora Veil support. Substitute is also a great option to avoid status from slower Pokémon, as Strength Sap can make Iron Defensive sometimes negligible. Here are some replays:

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9monotype-1944478379
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9monotype-1945168877-zrdsiq1s99ytbxtkdscl1lpy2why96bpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9monotype-1945020310-vxip577bb7dbv4okysgqffw3cu3h59apw

 

[Aschmaros]

I do not think Hypnosis is worth running at all on either darkrai and ninetales. I can't speak for darkrai too much, because I'm not familiar with dark post-dlc1, but for Ninetales? You can't cut moonblast or encore imo. Moonblast helps immensely deal with the fighting MU (though with Ape being unbanned rn, I can see valid arguments to just make that MU worse to run hypnosis I suppose), and encore helps against other set up mon which is prevalent rn and the move is just unreliable and could very well be costly on Ice where, imo, every turn counts to set up your other mons. I think hypnosis is copium rn but I could be wrong