Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread [See post #38]

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GP & NU Leader
meta ends in a week but felt getting some thoughts out there that are a bit more in-depth could be useful. general idea is that a lot of Pokemon are being very overrated currently on the VR

:gourgeist:(small) hasn't been relevant for a very long time, rise of Alolan Persian and other Dark-types coupled with Decidueye being a vastly scarier wallbreaker has significantly diminished its niche

:rotom: not suffering as much as Gourgeist-S but feels less great and deals with more or less the same issues, also doesn't help that Lanturn and Galarian Stunfisk are both quite common and give it a headache; yeah you can cripple them with Trick, but that isn't always the good play and can end up causing you more grief than it benefits you

:silvally:(dragon) just feels like an "on paper" Pokemon now more than an "in practice" one. I still find myself using it quite frequently but never feel that I'm being rewarded for it. The defensive utility and sweeping potential it offers in the builder doesn't seem to show itself much in battles

:liepard: this Pokemon has not been relevant in months

:rapidash: this Pokemon has not been relevant in months

:rotom-frost: yet again this Pokemon seems very enticing on paper but doesn't amount to much when actually using it from my experience, only really threatens slow teams that aren't very common right now

:abomasnow: hasn't been a relevant wallbreaker in a very long time and generally struggles to threaten teams like it used to because the tier as a whole is much faster; it's still a problem to switch into yeah, but Decidueye is generally just a better Grass-type wallbreaker, and I don't think its niche as an Aurora Veil setter should keep it up

:sawk: it wants to use Close Combat so badly and just can't because of how many common Pokemon resist or are immune to it; there's actually a ludicrous amount of room to be punished for locking into its STAB move right now, be it giving up turns to defensive Pokemon or just letting in problem wallbreakers like Decidueye

:silvally:(water) this Pokemon has not been relevant in months

:drednaw: it's only ranked because it's a good lead on hyper offense; this is not B rank worthy

:cramorant: it's a fine enough offensive Defogger, but that's pretty much where it ends with this Pokemon; it can be annoying for non-Lanturn teams but... doesn't really do a whole lot other than that: be annoying. it doesn't really match up well into the common Stealth Rock setters because of how sad its bulk is either, which generally sucks for it

:flapple: outclassed by the other Grass-type wallbreakers, Dragon Dance sets aren't really that potent and are difficult to find great setup chances with---overall a fine enough option but not very consistent or really rewarding to use

:malamar: being a Dark-type that doesn't resist Ghost in the current meta sucks; being 4x weak to Bug in the current meta sucks

:togedemaru: not good. Choice Scarf sets are dreadful to use, maybe Wish ones are the better option? overall there's just very little reason to actually use it outside of niche situations where you REALLY need its blend of speed and typing to check some weird selection of Pokemon

:tangela: it's good for checking a pretty wide variety of physical attackers, so I understand if others wouldn't want to drop it; I just haven't seen it actually like, pick up in any meaningful way? like, this one feels a bit less strictly an on paper Pokemon that some others, but it still really feels like something that mostly just seems like a good pick until you actually use it

:avalugg: too niche of a niche to justify being in the B ranks

:bouffalant: it's confirmed to be just a bad Miltank

:klinklang: it actually just has no niche at this point. it's an awful sweeper, and there really isn't any reason to try defensive sets with it that I can see

:morpeko: why would I use this over anything else. I actually just don't see why.

:perrserker: in theory it got a bit better when Silvally-Steel left; in practice it didn't. still suffers like it used to from not being a great wallbreaker and offering very little else because of poor bulk and speed

:luxray: rozes mon, must be bad

:ditto: doesn't actually threaten reverse sweeps effectively

there are some other Pokemon that I'm slightly more torn on whether they should drop or not (Eldegoss, Ferroseed, Gurdurr, Magneton, Rotom-S being a few), so I left them out. I definitely don't think Accelgor is worth a rise---it is 100000% an on paper Pokemon that offers a lot of potentially interesting things that actually contribute nothing at the end of the day---but could maaaaaybe see a Ninjask rise to B+? still not sold on it just looking underrated right now because of how much is overrated, though.
UR to C

Howdy, everybody! It's your local Roselia and Lunatone advocate, Catalisador. In this post, I'll be giving my thoughts and opinions on why Roselia should be ranked as a competitively viable option in the post-DLC1 NU metagame, as well as providing replays to exemplify my claimings.

1. Defining Characteristics of Roselia;

1.1. Hazards;

Roselia's outstanding defensive typing in Grass and Poison, in conjunction with passable bulk and decent enough speed tier makes it an incredibly versatile supporting pokémon when taking into consideration its access to one of the most polarizing tools in 6 versus 6 singles history: hazards.
The ability to abuse momentum provided by the pressure of spammable moves in Sludge Bomb - used mainly to frisk for status conditions against bulkier walls like Miltank and Lanturn, while pressuring other defensive behemoths like Clefairy and Eldegoss - and Extrasensory - a unique coverage move that allows Roselia to hit opposing Poison-types like Toxicroak and Weezing unexpectedly - makes it easy to get up a layer of the so feared Spikes, allowing for teammates to abuse extra chip damage, or Toxic Spikes, providing constant status pressure on the opponent's side of the field.

1.2. Versatility;

Even with Sword and Shield's movepool cuts, Roselia remains incredibly versatile. Although the loss of Hidden Power means the rose can no loger put on guaranteed pressure against Steel-types such as Ferroseed and Magneton, Roselia remains one of the most versatile pokémon when it comes to supporting tools. Access to Leech Seed can allow for extra chip damage against common Roselia switch-ins like Magneton or Weezing (if lacking Extrasensory), while Stun Spore or Sleep Powder can provide support for either paralysis spam gimmicks or a free turn for one of Roselia's allies, via sleep, or even a turn for Roselia herself to setup a Spike. Aromatherapy allows the rose to act as a cleric if the team so needs. Even Rest can allow for a free full restore, in comparison to Synthesis's 50%, in conjunction with Roselia's primary ability. Speaking of which...

1.3. Natural Cure and momentum grabbing.

Roselia's Natural Cure ability is a blessing. Being able to pivot into Thunder Waves and resisted Scalds for teammates can allow for Roselia to act as a premier status absorber. Given that most status condition users in the NU metagame are scared by the rose's STAB combination (Lanturn, Clefairy, Wishiwashi, Quagsire, Sandaconda, etc.), it is easy for her to combine the role of status absorber and momentum grabber with her ability to setup hazards.

2. Pros. and cons. of using Roselia;

2.1 Pros.;

Roselia can be a fantastic momentum grabber with her ability to absorb status, as mentioned earlier, and provided hazard support. Her combination of STABs and coverage in Extrasensory make her a versatile threat to bulkier cores of Weezing/Lanturn/Piloswine, for example, and her passable bulk allows her to work as a check to some of the metagame's most defining offensive threats like Basculin, Thwackey, Accelgor, Jolteon (if you are playing on low ladder...), Lurantis and Sawk (although Knock Off is an issue to beware of).
Spammable STAB Sludge Bomb goes a long way in chipping away defensive metagame staples like Miltank, also.

2.2. Cons..

As an Eviolite pokémon, you are prone to getting knocked off. However, his issue can be remedied with teamsupport from the likes of Silvally-Dark or Colbur Berry Cofagrigus, for example.
Roselia faces competition from other Spikes users such as Accelgor and Ferroseed, as well as Garbodor, a fellow Poison-type pokémon. However, Roselia's typing and movepool carves her a niche as a pokémon that is more reliant in pressuring defensive walls with her Poison/Grass/Psychic coverage and support options like Leech Seed and Sleep Powder, as well as a reliable recovery option in Synthesis, give her an extra oomph in comparison to the aforementioned Spikers.

3. Decent offensive capability;

Furthermore, Roselia can also abuse from an offensive variant. Grass and Poison as an offensive combination can be extremely deadly in a tier with very few Steel-types (namely Stunfisk-Galar, Ferroseed, Magneton and Togedemaru - of which the latter two are 2HKOed by Specs Leaf Storm after Stealth Rock).
The ability to break and abuse momentum created by a wonderful STAB combination to setup hazards gives Roselia a unique offensive niche as a breaker in the NU metagame. The unpredictability also plays a big factor in offensive Roselia's capability, being able to pick unaware opponents by surprise with her decent speed, enough to outrun the likes of Abomasnow and Miltank with investment.

Here is a wall of notable calculations regarding Roselia's wallbreaking capabilities:

1. 75.9 to 89.7% to specially defensive Stunfisk-Galar;
252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk-Galar: 213-252 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk-Galar: 108-127 (25.5 - 30%) -- 0.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

2. Likely 2HKO against specially defensive Miltank, with poison chance;

252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Miltank: 184-217 (46.7 - 55%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

3. Multiple scenarios against Weezing variants, always resulting in great damage;

3.1. Specially defensive;

252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Weezing: 234-276 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Weezing: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Weezing: 71-84 (21.2 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery

3.2. Physically defensive.
252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 294-346 (88 - 103.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 177-209 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 146-174 (43.7 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

4. Good chance to OHKO and guaranteed 2HKO against Cofagrigus, depending on the move;

252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cofagrigus: 255-300 (79.6 - 93.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cofagrigus: 177-208 (55.3 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

5. OHKO against the main Clefairy variant, 2HKO against max specially defensive.

252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 350-414 (101.7 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Roselia Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 234-276 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4. Sample movesets.

Roselia @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 148 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Spikes
- Extrasensory / Giga Drain / Leech Seed

The given EV spread allows Roselia to avoid the 2HKO from Sandaconda's Earthquake after Stealth Rock damage. 20 Speed EVs allow for the rose to outrun no speed Lanturn and the rest is put into SpDef to better check Weezing, Magneton, Accelgor and specially offensive Basculin.
Sludge Bomb puts pressure on bulky walls like Miltank, Clefairy and Lanturn while providing reliable STAB, Synthesis provides reliable recovery and Spikes provides hazard support for the team.
Roselia's last slot is team-based. Extrasensory allows Roselia to hit Weezing and Toxicroak for unexpected super-effective damage, while Giga Drain deals massive damage to the likes of Sandaconda, Lanturn and Piloswine. Leech Seed provides a better chipping option against pokémon that Roselia can't normally hit effectively, such as Galarian Stunfisk and Magneton.

Roselia @ Choice Specs
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Leaf Storm
- Spikes
- Energy Ball / Extrasensory

Offensive Roselia is an underrated breaker, as explained before. Grass/Poison is an amazing offensive typing, while the use of Spikes abuses the momentum created by Roselia's offensive pressure. Natural Cure still allows for status absorption from the likes of Lanturn's Scalds.

5. Replays.

5.1. In this replay, the sheer utility of defensive Roselia can be seen through most of the turns, pivotting around Weezing and Lanturn and pressuring the opposing team with her STAB options, as well as giving extra chip damage with her Spikes later in the game;

5.2. This replay shows how oppressive the sight of Roselia can be, making the opponent vanish turn 1 by the sheer pressure of having to face the rose again (JK);

5.3. Replay against the number #2 player on NU ladder showing offensive rose and the utility of Roselia's Spikes, allowing for teammates to claim KOs, and her ability to pressure off pokémon like Weezing and Toxicroak with Extrasensory mindgames.

roselia ladder climbing.png

As of right now, I've hit 1416 in a single noon (number #337 on the NU ladder) only using Roselia and Lunatone teams, and I plan to keep on climbing up the ladder. With the aforementioned evidence, I firmly believe that roselia has a viable niche in the post-DLC1 NU metagame and should be ranked as a C tier pokémon.

edit1: bragging about Roselia;
edit2: excuse any grammar mistakes, please, my english is (poorly) self-taught.
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:bouffalant: it's confirmed to be just a bad Miltank
It's not as passive, can directly damage ghost-types (mainly Decidueye) with Throat Chop (Miltank has no moves to hit Decidueye except using Toxic) and use Grass as set-up with Sub+SD

So sure, it's not necessary better (Miltank still counts with better speed, recovery and SR) but I wouldn't call it "a bad Miltank"
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