Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread

[Phantomistix]

Noms cz wynaut:

-> S
read what rabia said, in addition, offensive LO variants with BU/SD are very potent when you consider its 2 base 120 power STABs, and coverage like steel wing for diancie and uturn to pivot make it the most splashable, and potentially, the single best mon in the tier.

-> S-
While it is still a very versatile mon and a very potent wincon, the rise of ghosts, xatu, tflame, drap, guzz, celebi give it's IDP variants a very rough time trying to sweep. Still very consistent as a rocker, especially when facing synchronize xatu :). I don't believe the meta has shifted enough for it to drop all the way to A+, but a small drop is needed in my eyes.

-> B-
Yes this mon is very powerful with it's crit sets, and gets swift swim for those wierdos using manual rain, it simply doesn't get enough usage to justify staying in B. Being near unviable outside HO also makes this a B- mon at best in my eyes.

-> B+
speed control, anti tflame measures, defog punisher, actually able to pivot, very splashable

 

[turtledoggo1]

click

S -> S
imo bronzong should stay in the s ranks. the splashability and sheer versatility is just so great, and the only true roadblock you have is xatu which can easily be doubled on. stealth rock sets/id body press sets are all amazing, and it's really easy for bronzong to win or cripple teams over the course of a match. it can fill a ton of holes on a team and being a 'real' steel-type is great too (easier mu vs exploud, goodra etc..) drapion can't repeatedly switch in and it loses to id rest on the switch, same with non choiced guzzlord. both usually can't even ohko and it's honestly really easy to add good teammates to support bronzong.

A+ -> S-
i don't think it's on the same level as bronzong or rotom-c but i do think it's still better than most if not all of the other a+ ranks. it's so easy to just slot on a talonflame for speed control, or a fighting resist, or for whatever. pivot sets are still amazing at luring things for its teammates or just spreading status/picking things off. offensive variants have also been doing great lately with sd/ wisp bu which further adds to its diversity. i don't think it's as meta defining/threatening or particularly outstanding in any one role compared to the other s ranks, but i do think a rise is appropriate.

A -> A
while it lacks much if any defensive utility, i do think that the raw power, priority, and large chance to crit justifies its a ranking. everybody knows how dangerous fetchd can be, and the wrong play or teambuilding error can be seriously fatal. having the strongest priority in the tier is super useful too, and can pick off a lot of weakened offensive pokemon. quick attack, while less common, still works great too. the ability to crit past everything with leek is super important as well, as it's able to serve as an anti-zong mechanism for a lot of teams and in general, just a really good anti-bs pokemon.

A- -> A
goodra is an extremely dangerous pokemon, and can easily claim many kills throughout the course of the game. unlike other wallbreakers like exploud or sirfetch'd, it has more defensive utility and speed, making it harder to revenge kill and pressure over the course of a match. increase of heatproof bronzong hinders it definitely but fire blast still chunks like 30% and it's not hard to pressure bronzong over the course of a match, especially given how many things it wants to check at once.

B -> B+
i agree that passimian should rise. for me personally, it's been a really splashable pick on my teams, and i don't really think it's too hard to justify or use at all. the only real annoying pokemon in your way is like vileplume and a well played talonflame but odds are that you will leave the matchup with more momentum. it's consistent for its role and a good cleaner late-to mid game.

B+ -> B+
ninjask still belongs in b+ imo. it's an exceptional late-game cleaner and overall nuisance in battle, specifically when paired with those other annoying pivot spammers. the ability to outspeed many faster pokemon after a protect such as +2 blastoise/kingdra or any other cheesy speed boosting pokemon is really nice, even if it doesn't always work out for the ninjask user.

C+ -> B-
i am indifferent about comfey but a rise does make sense. it can do nothing some games but other times it's just a matter of when it gets onto the field to start sweeping. if u ever want to snipe me on ladder or in a tournament use comfey or scrafty and you will usually win

(ground) C+ -> B/B+
not much else to say other than just rise it. it's good on volturn teams, good as a cleaner or even just as a defog utility pokemon, and the better mowtom matchup is always nice. overall really nice utility and work it provides for a team

C -> C+
it's emerging as a good stealth rock setter on more offensive teams and can be good on standard balances too. i've been liking specs recently but eject pack is even better utility and offensively wise. its typing and speed is quite okay and it's worthy of a small rise imo

UR -> C
sneasel has been seeing more tournament game success and more overall usage everywhere, it's honestly a solid pick. it's obviously not something you can just slap on a team but fwiw it can be a really good cleaner or just nuisance for many teams. i made a metagame post about it and i'll copy the replays from there here. sneasel is also not the only pokemon without a proper ss sprite on vr, unless celebi's sprite is really that small (?)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1415294087-tw1avnxc9w7ou8bbqldfgsch96jf511pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1414330814-8ftidmuxf1aeumfn6qkfls06o5qjzi3pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1414335398-9iwxh10oiiw1yuop1gi4cowz5nqnztjpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1414387551-qg6equabi7j1yudnn8zsvmboebt78dvpw

A+ -> A
dragalge is still a great mon with nuclear draco meteors.. but it doesn't? your longevity isn't that long especially considering the bulky waters you want to switch into can just scald burn and switch into a better check, while electrics just volt switch for momentum. pivoting and tspikes are cool and all but doesn't really stand out to me as an a+ pokemon. it's really slow and vs bulkier teams with a steel + diancie or whatever it just kinda just has to flip turn around all game. you are a fake fighting resist, a subpar blastoise and water check and just overall outclassed offensively and defensively by guzzlord and goodra. still an excellent mon just isn't as good as before imo

B+ -> B
perhaps i'm underestimating glastrier but i think it should still continue to drop further. on paper it does pretty well but it's honestly a really hard mon to support and build around. checks are pretty common in wisp talon, id press bronzong, fetch'd among others, and it's hard to safely bring in and use due to its poor speed. i dont think its had much tournament usage recently but i could be wrong. it's also hard to use this on ladder because arcanine is on every other team. all the b+ pokemon are better than it and a good portion of the lower ranks as well.

(ghost)
i think these two should switch, or perhaps silv ghost can go down even lower. the value dhelm adds to a team as a spinner/electric/diancie/celebi etc check with good recovery along with its strong power allow me to think it should rise. meanwhile, silvally ghost doesn't have much tournament success or at least from what i can recall (?) in my experience it's hard to build around and overall kind of awkward to use in battle too.

B -> C+
agree with what rabia said

 

[poh]

A+ --> A-
Can we stop overrating Dragalge? It should never have been this high in the first place as its outclassed by both Guzz and Goodra, barely sees much usage anymore, and Bronzong is currently S. T Spikes also aren't great in a meta full of Levitating/Flying mons, an almost mandatory Steel, boots, and multiple very good Poison-types. I guess Flip Turn is cool, but not A+ cool I'll tell you that.

idt people overrate dragalge and it certainly is not outclassed by the other dragon types. dragalge offers key resists no other dragon type provides while also acting as a pivot; one of the best teams atm are slow pivots like drag and port xatu + something like exploud or fetchd. dragalge pressures p much 80% of the meta and it flip turns on the rest of it. while i can agree it might be the 'worst' out of the current A+ mons, idt it deserves a drop of 2 subranks.

-> A
even tho i love sylveon, a drop is probably justified. meta is filled with poison and steel types, talon is everywhere, setupfodder to things like celebi and lazzle and the need of having to check sirfetchd isnt as paramount as before.

-> C
i heavily support ranking sneasel. it might not have the defensive value like our other dark-types but it makes up with excellent offensive qualities. ice-dark is very tough to switch into and triple axel is a broken move. steel-types are often peoples ice resist and they don't appreciate getting knocked same with talonflame trying to fish for the burn if you go for triple axel. tour usage and general attention makes me think it's a fine contender for the C ranks. its definitely better than other C mons like ribombee and druddigon.

<->

these 2 should swap places. goodra has seen more success lately and has the advantage of having good bulk and better typing than exploud. defensively, exploud offers you less so it's harder to fit on teams. me and Ren-chon discussed that the higher ranks (A and upwards) should also reflect how splashable a mon is. therefore we think exploud could probably move down while Goodra should move up.

 

[Katy]

b to b-

ight seem controversial but arcanine did not see much success as of late to place it with more successful pokes in the b rank category. arcanine struggles with lead drddigon which surges in usage recently. arcanine also dislikes diancies usage alot which is on a great peak at the moment. furthermore talonflame gives it competition as a pivotal pokemon in the metagame with having roost and u-turn alongside a secondary stab in flying it is a much better pivot than arcanine. also talonflames ground immunity helps it as well.

noms i agree with:

sneasel unrank to c
exploud swap with goodra

 

[julian113]

First nu vr post idk if these are hot takes

to A
Yes it’s an uncreative and boring mon to use, I hate facing it too. That being said, it’s got excellent defensive utility and solid recovery in conjunction with pivoting and passing wishes. It’s passivity and exploitability is why it doesn’t belong higher, but it walls a lot of mons with its useful typing and great hp and spdef. Good spatk stat also means it’s scalds actually sting non-resists and burns are no fun for a lot of the tier. Sylveon is probably competition for it, but resisting water, fire and ice are valuable traits and slow pivoting is useful af.

to A
Absolutely love using this mon. Great set versatility and techs to keep checks guessing. Both cb and specs are excellent breakers that require different counterplay. Guzzlord switches in only to take a banded uturn. Sd sets are decent too and nasty plot probably deserves some more experimentation. It’s low speed can be troublesome but it packs priority if needed and specs shadow ball/leaf storm is exceptionally difficult to switch into if ur not packing guzz. A mon with 4 viable sets and 2 of them being completely proven as very threatening in the meta deserves A rank for sure imo.

 

[Segetarius]

There's one mon on the VR that has been fought over for a while, so I thought I'd chime in:

A+ -> A/A-
Look, I know that Dragalge is a bit of a contested topic right now, but I do think that it is a little underwhelming to be placed amongst the likes of Drapion and Celebi. Yes, things like Flip Turn and a Fighting resistance do give Dragalge differentiating factors in comparison to the other Dragon's in the tier, but my experience has found that these benefits come at too much of a cost to justify such a high ranking. To be sure, offensive teams can appreciate the pivoting ability and resistances Dragalge brings to the table and it is by no means bad, but honestly I find a lot of these "benefits" to be overvalued by die-hard Dragalge advocates. The Fighting resistance in particular is super overblown considering that the powerful Fighting STAB everyone fears (Sirfetch'd CC) still 2HKOs you on the switch in the case of CB variants, and for those of you that think your safe if you can avoid Leek crits, yeah you get slammed just by non-crit BB. This isn't even mentioning that there's nothing stopping an opposing Fighting type from knocking your Black Sludge off, making it even harder to stay in good enough shape to even soft check them. Furthermore, Passimian can just click U-turn, leaving Toxicroak as the only Fighting type you really can check on a semi-consistent basis (assuming no EQ). Now, if the offensive teams Dragalge fits on can end the game fast enough, the temporary nature of Dragalge's checking ability can be overcome, but frankly, there are a lot of things that can go horribly wrong for any offensive team right now that can neutralize your breakers. Be it a stray Flame Body/Effect Spore proc or one of the plethora of tech options on teams right now, you can't assume that things will go off without a hitch. It doesn't help that Dragalge itself provides at-best mediocre breaking power, with many top tier options stuffing its attempts at breaking, especially the Steels. Sure, you can Flip Turn out of them, but that blindingly obvious move opens up your switch to an attack from AV Copper or free rocks laid by Copper or Zong. Dragalge is the only Dragon who does not commonly run a move to punish Steels switching in. Sure, you could run Focus Blast, but then you live and die by its accuracy, still don't threaten Zong, and are just better off running Specs, in which case you give up on much of the defensive utility that its supposed to bring to the table. In a way, Dragalge reminds me of SR Copper, where its power no longer justifies its low speed and inability to check things over the course of the game for many teams. Again, this isn't to say that Dragalge is bad, simply that it isn't splashable or meta-defining enough to justify such a high ranking. Yes, checking Mowtom and Fighting types and Vileplume and Vaporeon is valuable for offensive teams and yes, they do enjoy a slow pivot. Realistically though, replacing Dragalge is far from an insurmountable task, it's not like the tier is short on good pivots right now. Indeed many offensive teams prefer the offensive/defensive capabilities of Guzzlord and Goodra. And to those die-hard Dragalge fans out there that are going to say that I'm analyzing Dragalge in a vacuum, I'll just say right now that many of the great 1v1 matchups Dragalge has that you laud are also analyzing the opposing singular mon in a vacuum. Dragalge isn't bad, but one or 2 subranks dropped to reflect its usage both on ladder and in tournament play won't kill you.

If you read all of this, thanks because I just started typing and couldn't stop, so sorry to have made you do all of this reading

 

[Lucario]

Hi

Regarding I agree with it not being the best of the A+, but it is still really great and deserves its ranking.


YES MAKE THIS S...
Talonflame, for a long time now, has been really great. Recently with SCL, we have seen offensive Talonflame which can trick the opponent. It can help check Physical wallbreakers and can Defog if needed. Obviously, its Speed is also really great.

Now for the nom of the century.
UR --> C/C+
Everyone knows that Ice + Electric is a perfect typing offensively. So, this Pokemon can easily wipe out over half of the tier with "ease", just gotta hope they don't have a Galarfisk :). It is also obvious that, with the Fridge, you have to rely on 70% accurate Blizzard and you are unable to use Rotom-C. I have two replays of this cold monster, one is of my Round 3 of NUL vs. Goblin, and the other is a ladder battle vs. Ho3n. It did more in my battle vs. Goblin than vs. Ho3n, but it still did something vs. Ho3n.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1422647515-7rkudx0j9p4amr7egwo7oi8xr2b80htpw vs. Goblin


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1414365771-xgoka6ykg49lc169d9z3gwl6xkcex16pw vs. Ho3n

edit: apparently blizzard is 70% and not 80%...

 

[Catalisador]

UR -> C

Inteleon is a criminaly underrated Pokémon in the current SS NU metagame. Blazing Speed tier, extremely high Special Attack and access to U-Turn pivotting makes it one of the best choice users in the tier, with spammable Water-type STAB coupled with Dark- and Ice-type coverage.

Here are some calculations to show how powerful Inteleon can be if utilized correctly:

Relevant calculations!

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Mow: 101-119 (41.9 - 49.3%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Sylveon: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Surf vs. 0 HP / 92 SpD Assault Vest Copperajah: 172-204 (44.6 - 52.9%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Bronzong: 182-216 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Guzzlord: 300-354 (51 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Ice Beam vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 136-160 (41.3 - 48.6%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Ice Beam vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 240-284 (74.7 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

P.S.: Choice Scarf misses out on some notable 2HKOes but makes it so Inteleon becomes even faster than it already is, being able to surprise kill the likes of Talonflame and opposing Choice Scarf users.

The biggest factor contributing to Inteleon's low usage in high levels of competitive play is, solely, the presence of Vaporeon (Mantine kinda sucks guys, let's be real here). Which, although extremely solid, is also a flawed Pokémon that can be easily exploited by the likes of Heliolisk, Magneton, Toxicroak, etc. I believe Inteleon deserves to, at least, have some sort of recognition on the VR thanks to its potent breaking capabilities and function as a respectable option of speed control.


also...
UR -> C

I think I've preached enough about Uxie all around the NU forums, as well as PS! and Discord lol
pls rabia stop the uxie hate... ;(

 

[Expulso]

i definitely disagree with the notion that Inteleon’s water-type STAB is spammable.

Vaporeon (Mantine kinda sucks guys, let's be real here). Which, although extremely solid, is also a flawed Pokémon that can be easily exploited by the likes of Heliolisk, Magneton, Toxicroak, etc.

most (why is there a magneton?) of these partners that would threaten Vaporeon for Inteleon also stand up to Inteleon’s Water STAB well; in particular, Toxicroak and Heliolisk are great at helping offense hold it off, while balance’s Vaporeon and Mantine ruin it.

That said, its speed tier makes it a possible offense killer — I've lost to it before, mons like Toxicroak/Helio/Goodra are quite chippable since you want to get them on the field to wallbreak. I’m OK with a C rank but think U-turn and hazard support do much more work for it than water move spam just being free.

<->

these 2 should swap places. goodra has seen more success lately and has the advantage of having good bulk and better typing than exploud. defensively, exploud offers you less so it's harder to fit on teams. me and Ren-chon discussed that the higher ranks (A and upwards) should also reflect how splashable a mon is. therefore we think exploud could probably move down while Goodra should move up.

100% agree with this. I really don’t have anything to say that he didn’t, except maybe that Heatproof Zong is really hard to fit after this stratospheric rise of Silvally-Ground. +SpA Ebelt Goodra is amazing, there’s no reason to run any other set imo. It is great as both a Vaporeon punisher and a general nuke, it has real defensive utility vs great mons like Lazzle/Mowtom, and so on. IMO it warps building a good amount: more people should try out Silvally-Steel just to have a pivot that can outspeed it and force it to make predictions on the switch. Right now Goodra can often guarantee progress by clicking super effective attacks versus teams with 5 slower mons, as it should have done in Sabella vs Sensei Axew wk 1 SCL.

 

[Yourwelcomethanku]

UR -> C

Inteleon is a criminaly underrated Pokémon in the current SS NU metagame. Blazing Speed tier, extremely high Special Attack and access to U-Turn pivotting makes it one of the best choice users in the tier, with spammable Water-type STAB coupled with Dark- and Ice-type coverage.

Here are some calculations to show how powerful Inteleon can be if utilized correctly:

Relevant calculations!

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Mow: 101-119 (41.9 - 49.3%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Sylveon: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Surf vs. 0 HP / 92 SpD Assault Vest Copperajah: 172-204 (44.6 - 52.9%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Bronzong: 182-216 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Guzzlord: 300-354 (51 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Ice Beam vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 136-160 (41.3 - 48.6%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Ice Beam vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 240-284 (74.7 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

P.S.: Choice Scarf misses out on some notable 2HKOes but makes it so Inteleon becomes even faster than it already is, being able to surprise kill the likes of Talonflame and opposing Choice Scarf users.

Having the basis of your nomination mostly be about Inteleon's stats and calculations is very unconvincing, as statistics on their own aren't too important unless they are backed up by qualitative data explaining why it matters

Inteleon is a criminaly underrated Pokémon in the current SS NU metagame. Blazing Speed tier, extremely high Special Attack and access to U-Turn pivotting makes it one of the best choice users in the tier, with spammable Water-type STAB coupled with Dark- and Ice-type coverage.

Instead of describing the Pokemon why don't you say why its specific traits are relevant and give it a niche within the metagame. Why is U-turn relevant and does U-turn give it a niche over its primary competition? Its competition being Starmie. I really don't see how a Choice Specs Inteleon is much worth using over an offensive Starmie, with analytic it can reach similar levels of power to, and it has the coverage to get past Mantine, Toxicroak, and Vaporeon. Starmie also has Recover giving it better defensive usefulness.

The biggest factor contributing to Inteleon's low usage in high levels of competitive play is, solely, the presence of Vaporeon (Mantine kinda sucks guys, let's be real here). Which, although extremely solid, is also a flawed Pokémon that can be easily exploited by the likes of Heliolisk, Magneton, Toxicroak, etc. I believe Inteleon deserves to, at least, have some sort of recognition on the VR thanks to its potent breaking capabilities and function as a respectable option of speed control.

Ok but what does it do that Starmie doesn't? Outspeeding Salazzle and some Talonflame are probably the most relevant things I can think of, seems too niche to be of much worth in my opinion considering Starmie's many advantages.

EDIT: Expulso already posted sorry if this is redundant.

 

[skierdude101]

Having the basis of your nomination mostly be about Inteleon's stats and calculations is very unconvincing, as statistics on their own aren't too important unless they are backed up by qualitative data explaining why it matters

Instead of describing the Pokemon why don't you say why its specific traits are relevant and give it a niche within the metagame. Why is U-turn relevant and does U-turn give it a niche over its primary competition? Its competition being Starmie. I really don't see how a Choice Specs Inteleon is much worth using over an offensive Starmie, with analytic it can reach similar levels of power to, and it has the coverage to get past Mantine, Toxicroak, and Vaporeon. Starmie also has Recover giving it better defensive usefulness.

Ok but what does it do that Starmie doesn't? Outspeeding Salazzle and some Talonflame are probably the most relevant things I can think of, seems too niche to be of much worth in my opinion considering Starmie's many advantages.

EDIT: Expulso already posted sorry if this is redundant.

He's not really arguing that its better than Starmie. The nom is for C rank, starmie is A rank. You pointed out the niche of using inteleon yourself, it outspeeds salazzle, some Talon, and Starmie! It also has access to Uturn allowing you to pivot in a breaker for their check. Starmie can't really do this as well as Flip Turn has immunities and Teleport would be asking for your Starmie to get badly injured. Honestly, I think inteleon would be just fine with the rest of C tier. Since Analytic only triggers in on switches, Starmie really doesn't have the same cleaning power as Inteleon.

Finally, something thats really not that huge of a deal, but being able to live First Impression from Sirfetch'd can really limit RKing capability of some teams.

 

[Phantomistix]

more noms cz i heard there’s a vote this weekend.

-> C?

curselee/seedlee are both potent as late game cleaners able to outspeed anything not named a ninjask that’s been alive for a few turns. CC, stone miss, knock, BU/curse is probably the most optimal set. Base 110 sdef is also nice for tanking random hits when you consider you’ll be investing some into HP cz you dont need to max speed.
In short, kill the enemy sylveon, chip their vap, win with lee.

-> C/C+

I recently started messing with pterrain and it’s actually not that bad. It doesnt offer the same straightforwardness that eterrain does, and is slightly more awkward to build with, but it’s still solid when played well. It’s also p decent as an anti-HO archetype due to terrain stopping prio (unfortunately for the duck spammers). This mon in particular can run extender, specs/scarf w trick and still achieve success. Expanding force hits decently hard when boosted, and lastly, this mon gets healing wish (the single most broken move in the entire tier btw).

-> C+

This nom also comes mostly as a result of me using pterrain. Eforce/dgleam/sball is very rough to switch into unless you have a steel, and even then it’s very good chip considering the steels in this tier dont have recovery (zong gets sballed to kingdom come). I’ve used both specs and scarf, and both have been decent, although specs seemed better for overall breaking potential. Mbounce is always a good ability to have.
To summarize: base 130 specs boosted eforce w dgleam coverage makes this very tough to switch into, good speed tier, mbounce. Only C+ since I don’t think it’s viable outside pterrain.

 

[Rabia]

(just so it's in a more public space, yes we plan on updating this weekend, so get your nominations in ASAP)

 

[Expulso]

some quick noms:

silvally-ground: c+ -> a- (or even A!). I don't think a jump all the way to a- or even a bit higher is an overreaction at all; Silvally-Ground is an excellent mon that is here to stay. it provides a very good amount of defensive utility, blocking choice-locked Volt and checking mons like drapion and toxicroak while also threatening out staples like diancie and copperajah. its SD+Flame Charge set is one of the most threatening win conditions in the tier right now, and its SCL usage reflects all of these great traits. Obstacles such as levitate Bronzong and Mudsdale are relevant but don't prevent it from being really good, especially since these Pokemon don't have reliable recovery and it can also put them on the backfoot directly with U-turn.

scrafty c+ -> b- or b; scrafty is hardly invincible; it is hard-countered by sylveon, a really devastating matchup for it. however, bulk up scrafty provides a ton of defensive utility while also having the potential to win games versus many team compositions (i.e. those with diancie as fairy). it checks threats like guzzlord, goodra, drapion, and the ghost-grass types very well due to its typing and great special bulk while getting opportunities versus common mons like xatu, vaporeon, and non-id zong. it also takes advantage of the extreme common-ness of talonflame; after 1 BU, Scrafty is very comfortable Knock-ing off defensive Talon and can boost further to win the 1v1 MU if it has to switch in.


lightning round:
- passimian: b -> b+
- ninjask: b+ -> b or b-
- garbodor: b+ -> b - really not much for it to come in on and it often feels like you play 5v6 with it due to this. i like spikestack but it's hard to build a good 6 around this mon, which provides much less to a team than, say, Escavalier
- vaporeon: a- to a - just repeating my earlier post about this
- sylveon: a+ -> a
- dragalge: a+ -> a - sylv and galge are least impressive of the a+ mons imo and a+ is quite crowded atm
- swap exploud and goodra, i 100% agree
- if another mon had to be dropped from a to a- i'd point to starmie; getting it in is quite awkward since so many talons are u-turn and talon would otherwise be its biggest opening. relying on hydro as much as it does is an underrated drawback as well. however i'm also alright with it in A

edit; also 100% yes talonflame to S

 

[Danny]

Going to make some noms here, some better explained than others.


UR>>>C+

Uxie is a criminally underrated mon with legitimate nichesand roles that it can fill and has filled. It has two main roles at the moment, that of a CM gseed/kee berry wincon and that of a general pivot/utility set. Obviously the CM set is the superior one, but I know that Elias PSY has used the utility set to some success in NU Swiss and the Room Tour events that the NU Room has been hosting. In regards to the better set though, it’s access to Stored Power and Draining Kiss/Dazzling Gleam coupled with its immense bulk with the Defense raise make it a great ‘budget cress’. I used it when Cress first left, and it served as a decent replacement. It doesn’t die lol. Obviously there is counterplay thusthis nom being only to C+, but I def unitedly believe it is on the top end of C+ mons.

Replays

PTPL vs roxiee
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nu-580842
Pokeslice NUL
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1423211056-77p5ac5gb6fi0tprsl2zz7np1v0xt68pw
Turtdog’s replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1397905254
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1402614973

A+>>>S
Not much to say that hasn’t already been said by others but this mon is by far one of the top dogs in the tier. Taking over SCL usage stats is just one testament to its abilities. Not gonna talk much ab it as it seems almost redundant but Talon being ranked lower than Mowtom is near criminal.

Speaking of…

S>>>A+
Still a force to be reckoned with for sure, it’s lack of usage and lack of ability to make progress against prepared teams(which all should be) makes it much less scary than when we first lost Flygon. It doesn’t deserve to be ranked S when so many soft checks and hard checks are available and usable in the tier. The rise of Silvally Ground+Grass Resist teams has really put a damper on its ability to make progress and the Choice Scarf set is just not as good as it seems on paper.

With my big noms out of the way, onto some maintenance noms.

(ground) swap with (ghost)
Silv ground is good, ghost is not. Ghost probably deserves to be lower, but for ease just gonna swap these. Glad silvally ground is getting the respect it deserves, been loving it since we first lost Flygon. Not much else to say that won’t reiterate what ho3n said week 1 in the SCL discussion thread just that Silv Ground is very solid at the moment as an offensive Electric immune/potential wincon whereas meta trends have not been kind to Ghost.


B>>>A-
One of the tier’s premier wall breakers, it’s coverage and ability to run both DD, Scarf, and Band warrants a huge rise. See Kush’s game vs Sab last week and Ho3n’s game W1 for more evidence. Extremely strong and extremely hard to play against. Doesn’t deserve to be slumming it in the Bs.


B>>>B+
One of the top scarfers at the moment, it also has niche as a band set as I know I and others have used it quite a bit as a surprise nuke. Deserves to be ranked higher than Braviary/Arcanine/Kingdra which are niche at best at the moment.


B+>>>B
I love this mon. But the rise in strong special attackers like Heliolisk and the rise of ID Zong have not been kind to it’s BU sets, and Scarf is outclassed by Talonflame as a fast flying and Passimian as a Defiant Scarf user.


B->>>B or B+
As the only spinner, it fits well with spikestack archetypes yet it provides so much more for teams. It beats all of the SR setters in the tier, and doesn’t hate the match up into Garbodor with Poltergeist being no contact. If running no item, it can serve as a check to Golurk and physical Decidueye. It also is a soft check to Rotom-mow(hates wisp and gets volted on) and with SpD investment can also deal with Celebi to a certain extent. It’s extremely strong and capable of not only having defensive utility but also huge power.


C+>>>B
Very potent wincon in the right conditions, hates prevalence of Sylveon but the defensive sets are not impossible to overwhelm, and ive even seen some Scrafty run Throat Chop for the rise of Hyper Voice Sylv. I’ve also experimented with DD, which paired with spikes and Shed Skin is equally if not better than the BU set as it can actually bop weakened fairies with Iron Head/Tail and doesn’t mind burns as other set up wincons do from Talonflame’s Flame Body.


B>>> Lower
Both haven’t been seen much in competitive play, Kingdra’s Crit set is having a hard time in a meta infested with Escav(running Shell Armor) and of course Sylveon being extremely prominent. Stall has not taken off much and the VR should reflect that with at least a small drop to Quag.


B->>>C+
Webs are bad and the sub toxic set just isn’t as effective as it was when vape was on every team.

 

[Rabia]

I still wouldn't rise Tyrantrum much above B+ tbh; the rise of Silvally-Ground helps it in that it's a Rock-resistant Pokemon that doesn't keep up with Head Smash as well as the other options do, but it's still severely held back by Mudsdale and Bronzong being on damn near every team, and as a wallbreaker I still find myself preferring other options like Goodra that offer more to teams. I've actually liked Choice Scarf sets a good bit lately, though; they revenge kill a couple foes, namely Salazzle, better than some of the other fast Pokemon do.

 

[Stories]

is there a way to start these posts that doesn't sound dumb? I don't think so.

A+ S
We all saw this coming. Having the highest relevant speed tier in NU is arguably the most potent stat one could have. Looking at SCL usage stats for both week one and week two (courtesy of Phantomistix), Talonflame is the most-used Pokémon in both weeks, with lots of results prior to this tournament. Results and numbers aside, Talonflame on paper is simply a problem; if you think you have a Pokémon that beats it, no you don't. Get U-Turned on, idiot. This is after it viably spreads one of two brutal status conditions with either Wil-o-Wisp or Toxic, or hitting you with a potent STAB in Flare Blitz or Brave Bird. Talonflame can also utilize Taunt or Defog to add to its utility capabilities. But no S rank Pokémon is simply just utility, Talonflame is also an offensive menace. Although its attack stat is notoriously lower than Amoonguss, there's a reason this thing was still OU viable in its debut generation; high BP moves and multiple ways to increase its attack. both Swords Dance and Bulk Up are incredible ways to suddenly win late-game; if there's no Choice Scarf Pokémon opposing Talonflame then it is the fastest guy on the field. Talonflame's set diversity is another factor contributing to its huge success. These Talonflame sets show off the way it can mix-and-match its utility moves to create the ultimate support or offensive demon. Besides stats and movepool, Talonflame also has its typing and ability going for it; Fire-Flying with Flame Body allows it to not only sponge fighting-type attack but actively punish them without even attacking by threatening a devastating burn on Pokémon such as Sirfetch'd or Passimian. I won't go into obvious "oh Flying beats Ground" monologue but being able to pivot into powerful moves such as Fire Blast from Salazzle, non-Rock moves from Copperajah, Choice Specs Sylveon, etc. allows Talonflame to complement almost any core and provide phenomenal role compression. Now Talonflame isn't as all-powerful as I make it seem, in fact as stated before, its not powerful at all; its immediate offensive prowess outside of Super-effective attacks is laughable. Talonflame also hates having its Heavy-Duty Boots removed while switching into Knock Off Fighting-types or Escavalier due to its 4x Stealth Rock weakness. Not only a Stealth Rock weakness but a Rock weakness in general means most Pokémon can simply pack coverage for Talonflame, most commonly Pokémon like or .

B A- (at least)
Not as complex or deep of a Pokémon as Talonflame; Passimian is picking up heavily in the tier for its great speed tier, coverage, natural bulk and high attack stat, and Mienshao-esque Knock Off + U-Turn on a Fighting-type combo, and as a subtle Defog-deterrent with its Defiant ability . Passimian's coverage in Gunk Shot and Rock Slide allows it to potentially snipe common Fighting-type checks such as Sylveon and Talonflame respectively, and even Earthquake for Poison-types like Garbodor or Toxicroak. Although SCL hasn't reflected this increased usage (still 100% in rate tho!), anybody playing through the top 16 of NU Swiss will recall its high usage. Basically its just simply a better Pokémon than the other B tier guys, and has the match-up vs higher tier Pokémon and has recent results backing it up. Most commonly used as a Choice Scarf user, it can threaten almost anything 1v1 due to its speed and coverage, and although it is slower than other Scarf users such as Rotom-Mow, Heliolisk, or Toxicroak, those Pokemon are very exploitable if they are Choice-locked, due to the ability to limit their pivoting in Volt Switch (or Croak who cannot pivot); Passimian is unique in its unwallable pivot move in U-Turn, although it must be wary of contact effect abilities such as Flame Body or Effect Spore. Passimian, although its peaks may not be as incredibly high as any dedicated tank or set-up sweeper, it is nothing if not consistent.

B+ A
People forgot about this thing. I actually have my own replays to back up this nomination from my Swiss run (top 8 woo), vs Abejas, vs EviGaro; and a non-tournament replay, but valid none-the-less! vs Ho3nConfirm3d, vs FlowerBoy. This thing's stats are insane. and because they're all so high they allow for crazy customization. For example, one can outspeed and sub on Vapreon and not have it broken by either Scald or Talonflame Brave Bird. EV's aren't the only crazy customization this thing can do. I show Glastrier's effective coverage against the entire NU tier here, but here are specific sets that optimize the offensive moves as well as utility and set-up moves. Glastrier's ability to effectively 1v1 any Pokemon in the tier at worst is an incredible strength, and utilizing Healing Wish or Substitute to give itself another chance at hitting another Pokemon before going down makes it twice as good, although it does require that support. Glastrier's matchup spread vs every top tier Pokemon is phenomenal too, especially if behind a Substitute. Both eeveelutions are complete set-up fodder for Glastrier, Vaporeon's Scalds cannot fade Sub and even the rare Roar sets get blocked out by Throat Chop. Throat Chop also chokes out Sylveon, preventing it from attacking as well, and also hits common Ice resists such as Bronzong or Starmie. Choice Band sets require Healing Wish support, due to its common weaknesses, being prone to status, and weakness to hazards, which is very underexplored imo, but there are many Healing Wish users available to us, such as Lopunny or Celebi, who also provide utility to teams outside of simply just dying. Lead Choice Band Glastrier usually picks up a KO assuming you click the right button, and even if it has to almost trade its own life and gets sent into the red, once it gets Healing Wished back up, you're ready to claim something else, making each game an effective 5-4 assuming everything goes to plan (we all know it doesn't but wishful thinking). IronPress Glastrier is something I've only recently started experimenting with, and often times outside of a few obvious bad matchups such as Salazzle, I find myself only losing because I eventually get crit. Either Leftovers or Maranga Berry give Glastrier that extra push of bulk that really allow it to take almost any special hit, while boosting its Defense to untouchable levels. I think as an Ice-type, Glastrier is an obvious Glass cannon, and as all Ice-types do, it has plenty of weaknesses, despite how good its stats, ability, and movepool may be. Unless its behind a Substitute or is packing Facade, you're going to lose to Talonflame so long as it lands Wil-o-Wisp. Arcanine is as good of a check as you can get, although a Choice Band High Horsepower will definitely scare it out, and IronPress will beat physical, non-Roar variants. Quagsire can beat all set-up variants, but again, Choice Band's immediate power can 2HKO it.

UR B+
Honestly surprised this thing isn't ranked at all? I had to double check lol. Completely walling a "S-Rank" Pokémon in Rotom-Mow and non-Focus Blast Heliolisk, and not only walling (anyone can do that) but stopping Volt Switch AND providing momentum with U-Turn? No other Pokémon can do that. () Togedemaru can also serve many roles on a team, boasting a great speed tier and usable attack stat with great offensive moves in Zing Zap, Iron Head, and U-Turn, and some fun magic with Nuzzle :), Togedemaru can also be a great Choice Scarf user, although most commonly will run a Specially Defensive Wish set made to underspeed Rotom-Mow for a slow U-Turn vs it. SDef Togedemaru can also threaten Eevelutions and Diancie with its respective STABs. Not too much to say for this guy, but its a great anti-meta mon with multiple ways to use it and just the right amount of stats, movepool, ability, and typing to carve out niches for it.

Some other Pokémon to look to expect to see more of, even if not quite VR-worthy yet:

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

I'll add my reasonings for what I agree with during next slate to solidify my thoughts + to avoid reiterating. For now though I'll just cover what hasn't been nommed thus so far!

A > A+: It's so bulky and gets a Knock Off versus everything. I don't care about 4mss because its set diversity and unpredictability makes up for it. Whether fast and offensive or RestTalk bulk, Guzz is always putting in so much work and invaluable support. It's also checks Rotom-C, Drapion, Celebi, and Starmie on top of sitting on most walls bar Fairy-types. Add in top tier partners like Talonflame and a Steel-type and you have one of the best and splashable cores in the metagame. I'd swap it with Dragagle or at the very least say that they're both at A+.

A- > A: This was a leftover nom but I can't stress it enough. Muds. Is. Good!!! It's an integral part of teams thats not only a great blanket physical wall, but it's also the best counter to some of the hardest to check some of the most relevant physical threats like Drapion and Tyrantrum. I think it completes a ton of defensive cores and the defensive metagame wouldn't be the same without it. I also see the gravitation towards alternative Ground-types like Silvally-Ground and Palossand as a sign that players want to break up the monotony of slapping Muds on the team. Roxiee brought up its passivity issue but it doesn't matter when you only rely on Muds as a switch-in and rocker; SR punishes every switch-in significantly enough bar Xatu. As far as I see it, it for sure isn't an A+ tier wall but it's right up there at A for great support.

B+ > A-: No one brought this up yet?? Mantine is seeing a crazy lot of Swiss and SCL use, completing cores that need a Defogger and its resistances + immunities. The Fighting resistance and Water + Ground immunities in particular are really good for it to switch in and make progress. It's surprisingly not too passive when you factor in Hurricane + Toxic, which is a huge upper hand on teams that don't want to forfeit too much momentum. This is of course in comparison to Vaporeon, which invites in Celebi and Toxicroak and the team has to start back peddling to make up for this weakness. So I totally think the two defensive Water-types are very interchangeable and suit similar niches but different playstyles / preferences. One isn't necessarily better than the other, although if I had to pick, I would more likely build a better team with Mantine than Vaporeon in our current meta.

B+ > A-: All three of our Steel-types should be in the S and A ranks. Escavalier is excellent at forcing progress through SD + Knock Off and facilitates a ton of physical sweepers and breakers. But besides this niche being great in its own right, it's primarily a specially defensive Steel-type that deals with most Fairy- and Psychic-types and jank. I'm fine with a separation of a couple ranks between it and the other two but to think that Escavalier isn't a super important Steel-type is to miss out on a unique level of Knock Off, SD, Protect, and coverage support that the other two just aren't as good at.

B- > B: Small bump in relevancy. I think we all value Ground-types, and a defensive one with recovery and a STAB Shadow Ball to pressure Xatu, Celebi, and Bronzong is a great niche for it. It's also easy to pair it with Ghost-type checks and counters to get it in safely, and you're just as good as Muds as a physical wall bar some of the strongest physical breakers like Fetch. Colbur Berry sets solidify it for me because it can still check Drapion if need be and countering Toxicroak is also an awesome patch on teams that could lose to +2 LO Low Kick + Sucker. It would be a top tier wall if it was bulkier, especially on the special side, as my only complaint is how easily it drops to Salazzle and special breakers.

B > B- / C: I know someone already mentioned this should be lower but you could nuke it for all I care. This sounds contradictory from maybe what I implied earlier about Ground-types but Quaggy competes too much with Palossand which I think fits way more naturally and successfully on teams than it. Case in point; no one is using this thing. The big issue is the lack of SR so it struggles to find spots on balance and BO. It's a stall mon in a meta that doesn't see that much stall. I can't theorymon and pretend Quag has a notable niche if it's not being used that much and doesn't bring all that much to the table anyways.

UR > C: It's good. Please. I'm not gonna rewrite what I wrote last month because it still applies. If anything, I think it's even more relevant as a clicker with the coverage AND Speed to invalidate its hard stops and competition. Think of it as an Exploud that outspeeds other Exploud. The coverage and spammability ends up being pretty similar; hell they even have a niche Ghost immunity to latch on to in some builds. Indedee-F, though, actually outspeeds Decidueye, so that's a huge perk––it also outspeeds Tyrantum and prevent fetch from revenge killing like come on how are you not salivating from the mouth right now. Lastly, Future Sight means that Protect walls can easily be punished and creates a valid midground play when you're not ready to click Shadow Ball on the Bronzong switch-in. Plz rank already.

If there's anything else I missed I'll include it in my next VR-vote writeup!

 

[Meri Berry]

Tiering Update:
Sheet found here. Our next update will likely be very soon after this one, whenever the impending tiering decisions are mostly resolved.

Rises and Drops

Rises:
A+ -> S
A -> A+
A -> A+
A- -> A
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
Ground C+ -> A-
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C -> C+
UR -> C
UR -> C
UR -> C
UR -> C


Drops:
S -> S-
A+ -> A
A+ -> A
A -> A-
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> C+
Ghost B -> C+
B- -> C
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR

Rises and Drops with Reasoning

Rises:
A+ -> S: Talonflame has been on the rise even more lately as a premier status spreader and speed control. Oftentimes it does work even in bad matchups, spreading status and being the main revenge killer to most breakers in the tier.
A -> A+: Guzzlord has seen a rise, as with defense investment it is one of the bulkiest mons in the tier, and it comes with a potent offensive potential as well as Knock Off to always make progress against the opposing side.
A -> A+: Xatu rises in a tier with a low amount of hazard removal, and with Talonflame as one of the main competitiors its not hard to see why. It keeps them off against every steel type, as well as against Diancie which it can stall out of Diamond Storms.
A- -> A: Goodra has the coverage to make any matchup work, and the speed tier to abuse fat without any worry. With non-choiced sets, it can lure common checks as well, such as Vaporeon and Diancie with its mixed set.
A- -> A: Mudsdale has become a good glue for teams, its typing and bulk making it a good check to Copperajah and many breakers, and it can be a big problem for many teams by spreading Toxic to its main checks. Mudsdale especially shines with Wish support, allowing it to come back and shut down entire strategies.
B+ -> A-: Mantine has become a premier piece of removal, competing primarily with Xatu and the cursed Defog Talonflame, while offering a ton of compression that neither offer. Although it's also a Flying-type, it suffers much less from Knock Off compared to the other two Pokemon. It also has a deadly STAB combination as well as a ton of natural SpDef and Water Absorb, making it very useful on teams without another Water-type.
B -> B+: Passimian is one of the best scarfers in the tier, with a speed tier faster than the unboosted metagame which enables it to revenge kill Talonflame with Rock Slide while offering a lot of pressure with U-Turn and a really strong Close Combat.
B -> B+: Tyrantrum has also been rising as a scarfer, offering a strong Head Smash that does formidable damage even with a Choice Scarf. Tyrantrum's other sets are also very scary, particularly because Ground-types such as Silvally-Ground are rising which don't check them nearly as well.
Ground C+ -> A-: Speaking of Silvally-Ground, this is the hottest new addition to the metagame, with most people using it to counteract the relatively slow nature of teams by offering a much faster Volt-immune. This Pokemon is faster than non-scarf Rotom-Mow, which allows it to pressure it with U-Turn and pivot into other resists. Not only does it do this, it also has the potential to sweep many teams with its strong EdgeQuake coverage, destroying teams that rely on a Flying-type as their Ground resist.
C+ -> B-: There isn't much more to be said on Comfey, but SubSeed CM sets have become even more common as of late, and the VR council decided that this added exposure deserved a bump.
C+ -> B-: Scrafty is a potent threat against any team that doesn't carry a Fairy-type, allowing it to Bulk Up and threaten a sweep against any team after they're removed. Even when Fairy-types are in the match, Knock Off enables it to make progress against them and to weaken them for other teammates.
C -> C+: Duraludon is a potent breaker with a speed tier that is well above average. Sitting at base 85, it is a versatile breaker that can be a Scarfer or a breaker, its strong coverage alongside its great STAB combination carrying it in most non-Copperajah matchups.
UR -> C: Inteleon has a great speed tier, sitting above Pokemon such as Starmie and Salazzle, while spamming Water-type moves against any team without Water Absorb. Even when a team is carrying a Water Absorb Pokemon, Inteleon can use U-Turn and pivot into Pokemon which can exploit them.
UR -> C: Indeedee-F is a potent breaker that can use coverage such as Dazzling Gleam to force past Dark-types, as well as the sheer power of its 156 Base Power STAB move to whittle its checks.
UR -> C: Togedemaru has seen a lot of usage in SCL, offering a defensive presence against Rotom-Mow while also providing Wish to other Pokemon after a U-Turn.
UR -> C: Sneasel is blessed with a really strong STAB combination, and with the rise of Wide Lens Triple Axel and the usage of Xatu, it has become a more potent breaker due to an accurate 120 Base Power STAB.


Drops:
S -> S-: Rotom-Mow is still the best Scarfer in the tier, but the checks to it are very clear and it doesn't have the same power to break teams by itself as it used to. It relies a lot more on the power of its teammates to support it than its own power. The rise of Silvally-Ground and Togedemaru have also made it a bit worse.
A+ -> A: Salazzle struggles with the presence of many clerics, as well as bulky Water-types that are used on most bulky teams that Salazzle is used to shredding. The defensive Dragon-types also have a very large presence in the tier, and they match up very well into Salazzle.
A+ -> A: Sylveon has been debatably A for a while, often being quite easy to take advantage of in the same vein as Vaporeon. It offers a different set of advantages over Vaporeon, but when compared to Diancie, its very clearly the inferior Fairy-type.
A -> A-: Exploud is a potent breaker that has seen very little use, and doesn't offer the same speed tier or defensive utility as some other breakers. It's also just much less splashable as a breaker than many others, pigeonholing it into very similar cores which can be countered rather easily.
A- -> B+: Decidueye has seen negative usage, and the rise of Dark-types like Guzzlord and Drapion really hurt its viability overall. There isn't much more to comment on Decidueye, as very few of us have seen it in action often.
A- -> B+: Tauros is one of the fastest breakers in the tier, but it struggles due to the viability of the breakers that are faster than it and Talonflame, as well as the very high usage of Body Press Bronzong.
B+ -> B: Spikes just aren't as good, with Xatu usage as high as it is and the usage of Fighting-types as a whole not being as big as it used to be when Sirfetch'd was more scary to people building.
B+ -> B: Glastrier hasn't seen any results, and its speed tier allows it to be crept by even defensive threats such as Vaporeon, making it hard to set up and break with.
B+ -> B: Ninjask doesn't have the proper breaking power without Acrobatics, and the Acrobatics set takes so much effort to build around that you're better off using something else if you need the extra power. Dual Wingbeat Ninjask is still solid, but has a lot of common resistances (namely Diancie) that make it hard to use.
B -> B-: Kingdra hasn't seen much usage, and it competes heavily with other Dragon- and Water-type breakers for a slot on the team, without offering the same ease of use and versatility as they do.
B -> C+: The drop in Quagsire's VR rating reflects the lack of usage of stall overall, as well as the failure of it to live up to the hype of being a splashable answer to many of the tier's threats.
Ghost B -> C+: Silvally-Ghost is hard to justify over the much more splashable Silvally-Ground, and it doesn't have the immediate breaking power to be potent versus teams that have a Ghost resist such as the ever-rising Guzzlord.
B- -> C: Machamp just isn't Sirfetch'd, and Guts plus the lower speed tier makes it much harder to use, always getting chipped down and crept by random Pokemon such as Mantine that don't outspeed Sirfetch'd.
C -> UR: Everyone just saw Kushalos vs. OnArceus where Stunfisk-Galar killed a -1 Absol from 88%, and we had to nom Stunfisk-Galar or drop Absol. Everyone knew we had to spite Pokeslice, so this is the verdict. (Absol is also just really really frail and pretty slow, making it hard to use effectively).
C -> UR: Lanturn just doesn't do its job as compression very well, especially with the rising usage of Silvally-Ground and Mantine doing some of its roles much better.
C -> UR: Steel types exist.

 

[Rabia]

Galarian Stunfisk has been freed Pokeslice, make your post supporting its ranking or forever hold your peace

 

[SweetLou32]

Hello everyone this is my first post so if I make some errors I apologize. I'd like to discuss some pokemon in which I think there should be a change.

A- > A I feel as the former king of NU deserves a slight bump as it's just such a versatile mon. SD, NP, LO, Scarf, even specs band or BS are all usable. My favorite set is Scarf as it lets it outspeed and revenge important mons it could otherwise lose to such as Taurus, Zoarark, Xatu, and Talonflame, while also beating other scarfers such as golurk. Its solid speed tier allows for an adamant nature instead of jolly (For scarf), which lets it hit even harder. Also, Cross Chop is a very underrated choice due to less PP, Lower accuracy, and no health recovery. However, the extra damage really helps it kill its foes. It also has good defensive utility even without the best bulk which can let it get free hits on foes.

B+ > A-/A I am not really sure why this mon isn't higher is so amazing. Escav is one of the best defensive mons that scares lots of mons. Having knock, toxic, protect, sd, and stab iron head make this mon very solid. Pair it with a wish mon and he sticks around for a very long time. Also resisting dregagles Draco and immunity to poison stab makes it a great check when paired with Vaporion.

A-> A Vaporion is such a solid bulky clerk. I personally run yawn instead of protect which is crucial in forcing out set-up mons, or just mons your team might struggle against. Heal bell support is great in not letting your team get crippled by para or toxic, and wish support is so amazing in helping defensive mons and pivots last longer for your team.

UR> C- I think Mesprit creates a small niche for itself being one of two mons who has access to SR U-turn, and Encore. This might sound strange so ill try to explain and provide replays. Mesprit can be a great lead as it can set up rocks, disrupt other rockers, and carry momentum. It's def not a great mon but I think it definitely creates a niche for itself. I don't like using it as an attacking mon and I don't think that's what it should be. Stab psychic deals decent damage to many mons in the tier. And having levitate helps it switch in and set up rocks or disrupt a game. I'd also say

should be C- as it can do the same exact thing as mesprit.

UR> B Maybe I missed it but when looking over what's usable in NU I didn't see Zoarark. I'm also confused as I'm not sure what blacklisting is and I don't see Zora in there so I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to discuss Zora. Anyways Zora is a very very scary specs user. Having stab dp, fire coverage, and u-turn is very appreciated.
252 SpA Choice Specs Zoroark Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 324-384 (95.8 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Zoras ability to do this to Bronzong with just sr up should show it's a threat. And with illusion and opponent might stay in with bronzong and you can get the free kill. Even if they're Spd (which I think most aren't) it's still a 2hko. And if you can get bronzong to rest it's an easy kill for zora. Its huge speed tier allows it to threaten many mons as well and I feel it is a very good breaker in the tier.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1436615091-np3xhnz3dv43qcegcve296flhdbjwigpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1436688005

You can see how these mons perform well and deserve to be placed higher. I'm very new so any insight is appreciated and I'd like to see what others think as well! I had more replays but they deleted sorry.

 

[Finchinator]

from A to A+

Not only is it a premier Stealth Rock setter, but it is such a great blanket check to the physically offensive side of the metagame. Obviously there are some shortcomings, even if I do believe some have workarounds with team support or set adaptations, but Mudsdale is amazing at what it does and this is a role that many balanced and bulky-offensive teams rely upon. I believe A+ is fitting for it right now as I view it as a similarly good SR setter to Diancie in terms of overall niche, the best Electric immunity (over Golurk in A, for example), and a better Pokemon than it was a month or two ago due to the uptick in physical heavy offenses (see: the suspect ladder -- felt like this was every other game where Mudsdale played superman taking on multiple physical attackers while maintaining SR pressure).

from A- to B+

Mantine covers a unique niche to to its defensive typing, ability, and great natural special bulk, but I find this niche to not be needed very often. There are plenty of other forms of removal such as Rotom-C, Xatu, Starmie, Dhelmise, and even Talonflame. The fact of the matter is that the need for bulky Water types is pretty limited right now and oftentimes that niche goes to Vaporeon before Mantine, with Mantine's saving grace being role compression due to the Ground immunity or Defog use on specific builds that mandate that. Beyond that, I do not find myself ever wanting to go out of my way to use Mantine and I do not see it making much progress or doing anything beyond stopping the bleeding in specific match-ups.

from B+ to A-

Tauros probably was A- during the time of last slate, but it certainly is now. The metagame is getting even flimsier against it and not many more things are outrunning it, which makes Tauros menacing. Talonflame's timely Flame Body, Mudsdale's big bulk, and the occasional Escavalier can be lame with regards to punishing or minimizing Tauros, but even then there are workarounds and come late game there are few scarier presences in the metagame. I view it as far more consistent than Exploud, even if the immediate payout is not quite on par, and a physical cleaner with better upside than Silvally-Ground -- both Exploud and Silvally-Ground are in A- right now. It is true that Exploud can outright destroy unprepared teams and Silvally-Ground can potentially sweep with Flame Charge, but I do not think they distinguish themselves from Tauros much at all. Personally Tauros is my favorite of the three and even on par with some others in A- in terms of overall viability, so I like it to see a small bump up.

from C to C+ or B-

Druddigon is not an overpowering early-game force like the Dragonium set last generation let it be, nor is it a premier SR setter as it had been at times then either. However, it has a ton of utility and a very practical typing that allows for it to still serve a great purpose on the right team. The current C rank is mainly Pokemon just hanging on to viability, mainly ones that you see a lot in the fringe section of the ladder rather than consistently in tournaments. There are a few exceptions such as Sneasel, Togedemaru, etc. that can also probably see a rise of a subrank or two, but for now I think Druddigon stands out the most and should not be grouped with these. C+ feels much more appropriate for the time being to me.

 

[Rabia]

I love Druddigon right now and wholeheartedly agree with it rising. Primarily, it benefits from the huge surge in Xatu usage and many teams' reliance on it as their sole means of hazard control; Druddigon feasts versus these teams and still bothers them in other ways through phazing and spreading status. I also appreciate the flexibility it has with EVs; both physical and special bulk investment are quite solid. I honestly would be fine with seeing it jump C+ and go into B- because I really value its advantageous Xatu matchup quite a bit.

 

[Phantomistix]

Just got bopped by EQ drud and realised how good it is rn. In a tier where many people rely on levitate mons as their ground immune and xatu as hazard/status control, this mon should absolutely be B- minimum. Tflame doesn’t appreciate para since it’s likely the enemy’s only form of speed control (bad meta btw, use scarfers) and so it’s never coming in.

 

[Finchinator]

Snorlax is unbanned from SS NU, but let's give it a few days to develop before nominating now that is formally a member of our metagame -- thank you!