I nominate corviknight for A- since comparing it to mandibuzz, it has a lot more things going for it, however it cannot wall spectrier, as spectrier hits so hard even with choice specs that it can push past corviknight due to it lacking a ghost resistance. However a lot of the usual counters, with pokemon like regieleki, magnezone, and zygarde leaving the tier, there are way less counters to corviknight other than spectrier and any other fire type. Mandibuzz is now only better than corviknight for walling spectrier. Corviknight is a much better defogger and general stall team pokemon, especially with the lack of magnezone in the tier. Not to mention it not being trapped gives corviknight more opportunities to punish pokemon that run choice items as it can run pressure, hit protect, hit spite, u-turn out, and hit roost/body press when needed. I have to say corviknight is getting way better with the recent drops and bans and the usage rates for it going up reflect that.
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Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]
- Thread starter Finchinator
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Corviknight is still good, however now everything is running stuff to punish u turn and flip turn, since both of those are pretty common. I mean it's defense is pretty solid on its own. Although it's most likely going to dip some, just because of all the crazy counters.
I feel like Galarian Slowking is super low ranked here. With Assault Vest, it's phenomenal as a special wall, and regenerator for reliable recovery. It also gets good coverage and the 110 special attack makes it reliable for attacking as well. I think it outclasses almost everything in B Rank when it comes to reliability as well as most of if not the entirety of B+. I think there's no way that thing is any lower than A/A-. I'm also confused as to how Regular Slowking is ranked higher than it, despite it not really being relevant in OU any more. If you need any more evidence just look at the usage stats.
Yea. When the current edition of the VR was voted on, Glowking had not risen to OU yet and had not achieved its much deserved fame, so many on the VR council voted conservatively. I believe Finch stated before that if (and when) it were to be voted on again, it would probably be in the A to A+ range.
I disagree with a Corviknight rise. It has its good traits, but it faces severe competition from the kanto birds who are incredibly good rn, as well as it hating Cinderace being so common. It's not bad by any means, but I feel like B+ is a good placement for it.
What I feel would be better imo is a Mandibuzz drop to B+ or even B. The only redeemable trait this has is being an ok check to Urshifu, although that is questionable as it gets 2HKOed by banded Close Combat. The one thing that allowed it to get an edge over Corviknight in DLC 1, checking Cinderace, is now done slightly better by Moltres. As a dark type defogger, Hydreigon is better, thanks to its access to Earth Power allowing to check Heatran as well as not being ruined by Knock Off. It often checks Spectrier better too as Mandi doesn't fare too well against SubWisp sets.
Speaking of Hydreigon, I think that should rise to A-. As I said before, it has a lot of good traits that allow it to thrive in the meta as an excellent defogger. Its NP + Roost set, while not as good, can also be a quite decent wallbreaker
What I feel would be better imo is a Mandibuzz drop to B+ or even B. The only redeemable trait this has is being an ok check to Urshifu, although that is questionable as it gets 2HKOed by banded Close Combat. The one thing that allowed it to get an edge over Corviknight in DLC 1, checking Cinderace, is now done slightly better by Moltres. As a dark type defogger, Hydreigon is better, thanks to its access to Earth Power allowing to check Heatran as well as not being ruined by Knock Off. It often checks Spectrier better too as Mandi doesn't fare too well against SubWisp sets.
Speaking of Hydreigon, I think that should rise to A-. As I said before, it has a lot of good traits that allow it to thrive in the meta as an excellent defogger. Its NP + Roost set, while not as good, can also be a quite decent wallbreaker
True but even things like random scarf mage is supoosedly a viable set because the element of surprise is the best thing about scarf always.
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Katy
Banned deucer.
I think this Pokemon should stay in B+, despite the look that Electric-types seem rare, there are plenty of Electrics left, which make Corviknights life not easy. There is Tapu Koko and Zapdos, which are used very very frequently in battles, the same goes for Fire-types like Moltres, and the now OU via usage Volcarona again. Corviknight has to run Brave Bird to help itself versus the latter otherwise Body Press or Iron Head-sets get walled, furthermore Flame Body can burn Corviknight, leaving it useless in the rest of the game. Heatran is also very commonly used and Corviknight has to run Body Press to dish out damage onto it, but Magma Storm / Lava Plume-Sets are very threatening towards it and Corviknight can't switch into any of these Pokemon, it rather gets scared out by all of the Pokemon mentioned above.
Corviknight has a hard time as a Defogger recently, due to the metagame changing rapidly around it and it has a rather hard time to adapt to all threats at once, alltho it is still a good defogger, but it can't do that job as good as it wants, as there are plenty of threats which just force Corviknight to switch out due to different circumstances.
The increase of Cinderace and Tapu Kokos-Usage doesn't help Corviknight either in this case. Corviknight just finds itself in a very awkward spot in the current metagame and it gets more scared out than it can stay in to do its job as a defogger well.
I feel Corviknight should stay where it is, as there are too many things against it rather than for it; therefore I would say Corviknight stay B+.
Well not wrong about that tho.
I have been reading a lot of discussion on Corviknight and as I already made a post about Corviknight being risen to A- so I won't nominate it again for that to avoid spam but I want to give my 2 cents on some of the things people are saying-
One common rocker that Corviknight doesn't beat is Heatran. But to be fair only hydreigon and Moltres beat it out of all the mons you mentioned.
The problem with hydreigon is that it is exclusively ran to counter all heatran and spectrier. The normal spdef set with dark pulse, earth power can not dish out too much damage itself and loses to the other rockers like Clef, Leech Seed Ferro, spdef Pert, etc.
Lando T doesn't have any recovery and is used as a rocker more often than a defogger. Defog is usually seen on scarf sets as an emergency defogger.
As you can see it is still a phenomenal defogger. The other birds might be overall better but that doesn't make it any less reliable on it's own.
Now moving on to the list that you made about the mons that defeat Corviknight, Slowking G, Tapu Fini, T punch Melmetal are completely walled by Corviknight. The standard flame from slowking g is not a 2HKO and Corviknight can roost while it is threatened by stab brave bird on it's lower phys def, even max spatk Hydro from fini doesn't 2HKO and it can just uturn out to an appropriate mon. Even banded t punch from melly does around 75% which will do even less when Corviknight is roosting which Corviknight always outspeeds it unless jolly melly.
Specs lele can only 2HKO woth T bolt which it usually doesn't run. Without it, lele is walled. Against Hydreigon it can just uturn out on the plot.
Mons like Latios, Urshifu, Spectier, Nidoking, rain banded Barraskewda, Bulky Volc, Dragapult can't 2HKO without power boosting items and/or supereffective coverage moves and can't OHKO regardless. Corviknight can roost pressure stall a lot of these 1v1 and can uturn out or do considerable damage with brave bird in emergencies. A lot of these mons don't even want to switch into a brave bird to begin with.
Corviknight is not nearly as bad as you are making it seem against the current meta game. It is actually great against top meta game threats like Clef, Kart, Lando, Chomp, Torn T, Excadrill, Rillaboom, etc. While Corviknight can't win against these mons 1v1 if they start boosting but a great draw of it is that it can Uturn out before they get too out of hand not being threatened out before multiple setup turns by a lot of these.
Lastly, a lot of people were saying that Electric and Fire types have increased in OU so Corviknight is worse but that doesn't change the fact that Corviknight still does it's job against the mons it's meant to check. Electric Types are a bad news for all the birds save Zap, which still doesn't love them. By this logic, the other birds are weak to rock which hinders their ability to check Ground types with rock coverage and defog effectively. As this is their main role, then they are simply not good as defoggers. But that is also not true. As long as you can cover it's weaknesses in builder with for example, swampert which resists both these types, gives your teams a rocker, and another momentum mon, then can play around those mons quite well. Corviknight in turn also resists grass for them. In general this simply isn't an accurate criteria. Heatran an absolute kingpin of OU is quad weak to earthquake and weak to water. These 2 types are far more common than fire and electric but it is still an amazing mon that enjoys high usage. People use ground immune mons, grassy surge mons to support it to cover this.
One thing I would like to cover is a underutilised set that I have found to be pretty cool - Max Speed and Max health Jolly Pressure Lefties, Sub Taunt Roost Brave Bird Corviknight. This set is a more offensive version of Corviknight if you will. It does not have defog utility and uturn but it makes up for it by being a win conditions on it's own. A speedy corviknight is quite deceptively fast. Outspeeding mons lacking investment like Zap, moltres, tran, lando, etc. I like this set because it can very effectively mess with defensive cores and even offensive mons don't appreciate brave birds. It has to be paired with knock off and rocks, preferably even heal bell. Spikes are also nice but optional. Paralysis support and status support could futher help the lackluster damage output of Corvi but they are not necessary either. Now if you are able to knock off some leftovers and boots it can beat some of these matchups. Magma tran completely loses its magma storms in just one sitting. Mystical fire moltres can lose it's move in 3 sittings, volt switch zap can't defeat it. Knocking off the birds is important because it can taunt on the switch or from behind the sub while they take rocks and then they can't roost or defog. If played perfectly, it can even defeat discharge zap and flame moltres off the rocks alone in 3 switches and 1 switch resp. Spikes are nice because it prevents defog with it's fast taunt against most defoggers. In general it can get free subs against, non flame clef, pex, ferro, pert, lando, etc. And then go from there. It is kind of like a baby Suicune.
I wouldn't recommend this set unless you go the complete distance of supporting it with knock off especially and some threats it can't check but if you do try it out, it is a devastating mon which can just whittle your entire team down with taunt and brave bird.
Corviknight is still a very good defogger because it doesn't need to defog on the list of mons that you gave. Corviknight is capable of directly switching in and defogging on the most prominent rockers in OU themselves. Lando T, Clef, Ferro, Garchomp, Tyranitar on sand and Swampert are the among the most common rockers you will see. Corviknight completely walls all non setup variants of these and wins the hazard war with pressure. Chomp and Lando T often use SD and the latter sometimes even uses Smack down (This set is quite rare though) but +2 edge only does around 60% which corviknight can roost stall with pressure so they need multiple SDs against it in which time it can Uturn out to the appropriate revenge killer. Corviknight should win this in the long term. . SD rocks chomp will always have Edge-quake because it is good against all defoggers save Corviknight. Fire Fang is very rare and simply can't be afforded on rocker sets. Non boosted fire attacks from chomp bounce right off. This is a very crucial advantage Corviknight has over the other birds. All the other birds are very afraid of edge. They can't defog on these SDing behemoths. Another advantage Corviknight has over these birds is that it doesn't require boots and is not afraid of knock off and it is toxic immune. This makes it so that even defensive rockers like Ferro, Clef can just knock off others on the switch and cripple them heavily. A simple Spdef Pert can just toxic them on the defog and put rocks right back up. Ttar doesn't need to SD to threaten bird with it's rock move. These birds often don't run pressure either so it is a losing battle in the long run.
One common rocker that Corviknight doesn't beat is Heatran. But to be fair only hydreigon and Moltres beat it out of all the mons you mentioned.
The problem with hydreigon is that it is exclusively ran to counter all heatran and spectrier. The normal spdef set with dark pulse, earth power can not dish out too much damage itself and loses to the other rockers like Clef, Leech Seed Ferro, spdef Pert, etc.
Lando T doesn't have any recovery and is used as a rocker more often than a defogger. Defog is usually seen on scarf sets as an emergency defogger.
As you can see it is still a phenomenal defogger. The other birds might be overall better but that doesn't make it any less reliable on it's own.
Now moving on to the list that you made about the mons that defeat Corviknight, Slowking G, Tapu Fini, T punch Melmetal are completely walled by Corviknight. The standard flame from slowking g is not a 2HKO and Corviknight can roost while it is threatened by stab brave bird on it's lower phys def, even max spatk Hydro from fini doesn't 2HKO and it can just uturn out to an appropriate mon. Even banded t punch from melly does around 75% which will do even less when Corviknight is roosting which Corviknight always outspeeds it unless jolly melly.
Specs lele can only 2HKO woth T bolt which it usually doesn't run. Without it, lele is walled. Against Hydreigon it can just uturn out on the plot.
Mons like Latios, Urshifu, Spectier, Nidoking, rain banded Barraskewda, Bulky Volc, Dragapult can't 2HKO without power boosting items and/or supereffective coverage moves and can't OHKO regardless. Corviknight can roost pressure stall a lot of these 1v1 and can uturn out or do considerable damage with brave bird in emergencies. A lot of these mons don't even want to switch into a brave bird to begin with.
Corviknight is not nearly as bad as you are making it seem against the current meta game. It is actually great against top meta game threats like Clef, Kart, Lando, Chomp, Torn T, Excadrill, Rillaboom, etc. While Corviknight can't win against these mons 1v1 if they start boosting but a great draw of it is that it can Uturn out before they get too out of hand not being threatened out before multiple setup turns by a lot of these.
All these calcs were based on the mixed defense set that I had posted in my previous post so it is not like I am assuming spdef and phys def separately either. Corviknight does require strong and fast teammates like Banded Rillaboom, Specs Spectrier, Specs Infiltrator Dragapult to revenge kills mons it uturns out on but Balance builds should already have those kinds of mons so that is not a hinderence.
While it's not like Corviknight loves these things, it doesn't mind taking RH nearly as much as offensive mons.
Corviknight can still do it's job for the most part even when burned. It doesn't really dish out too much damage but it still can uturn out and defog effectively. It's effectiveness reduces, yes but calling it useless when burned is a bit too harsh and not accurate.
Lastly, a lot of people were saying that Electric and Fire types have increased in OU so Corviknight is worse but that doesn't change the fact that Corviknight still does it's job against the mons it's meant to check. Electric Types are a bad news for all the birds save Zap, which still doesn't love them. By this logic, the other birds are weak to rock which hinders their ability to check Ground types with rock coverage and defog effectively. As this is their main role, then they are simply not good as defoggers. But that is also not true. As long as you can cover it's weaknesses in builder with for example, swampert which resists both these types, gives your teams a rocker, and another momentum mon, then can play around those mons quite well. Corviknight in turn also resists grass for them. In general this simply isn't an accurate criteria. Heatran an absolute kingpin of OU is quad weak to earthquake and weak to water. These 2 types are far more common than fire and electric but it is still an amazing mon that enjoys high usage. People use ground immune mons, grassy surge mons to support it to cover this.
One thing I would like to cover is a underutilised set that I have found to be pretty cool - Max Speed and Max health Jolly Pressure Lefties, Sub Taunt Roost Brave Bird Corviknight. This set is a more offensive version of Corviknight if you will. It does not have defog utility and uturn but it makes up for it by being a win conditions on it's own. A speedy corviknight is quite deceptively fast. Outspeeding mons lacking investment like Zap, moltres, tran, lando, etc. I like this set because it can very effectively mess with defensive cores and even offensive mons don't appreciate brave birds. It has to be paired with knock off and rocks, preferably even heal bell. Spikes are also nice but optional. Paralysis support and status support could futher help the lackluster damage output of Corvi but they are not necessary either. Now if you are able to knock off some leftovers and boots it can beat some of these matchups. Magma tran completely loses its magma storms in just one sitting. Mystical fire moltres can lose it's move in 3 sittings, volt switch zap can't defeat it. Knocking off the birds is important because it can taunt on the switch or from behind the sub while they take rocks and then they can't roost or defog. If played perfectly, it can even defeat discharge zap and flame moltres off the rocks alone in 3 switches and 1 switch resp. Spikes are nice because it prevents defog with it's fast taunt against most defoggers. In general it can get free subs against, non flame clef, pex, ferro, pert, lando, etc. And then go from there. It is kind of like a baby Suicune.
I wouldn't recommend this set unless you go the complete distance of supporting it with knock off especially and some threats it can't check but if you do try it out, it is a devastating mon which can just whittle your entire team down with taunt and brave bird.
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Katy
Banned deucer.
I think A- is a bit of a stretch for Corviknight, in fact I think it even got worse, as it found plenty of competition currently, which can perform a role as Defogger better without being weak to 1 of the biggest threats in ther tier, named Spectrier.
Hydreigon does the job better without having to worry that much about Spectrier like Corviknight has to.
Furthermore its other competitors are Moltres, Lando-T, and Zapdos, which all can do the job phenomenally as well. Moltres gives a great Melmetal check and also checks the ever dangerous Heatran really well as it doesnt have to fear that much from Heatrans Fire-type attacks.
Zapdos can also utilize Volt Switch on its Defog-set or even dish out Discharges, which can lead to paralysis for the opponent, which in itself makes Zapdos a great Defogger, which can keep pressure simultaniously.
Lando-T finds itself as a great Choice Scarfed-Defogger, which can outrun a vast majority of the tier, it also can softcheck Heatran, and it can also check Spectrier, Pheromosa, and it can check faster Electric-types such as Tapu Koko.
I think Corviknight doesn't stand out to me in the current metagame and it doesn't offer mroe than the aforementioned Pokemon in the case of a Defogger, that is why I am thinking it should stay B+ - I would have even said It should drop to B but I am still want to see, how Corviknight performs in the future, but I feel it should not go up to the A- Rank at all for now.
Also saying hydreigon is run exclusively for spectrier and heatran is just false. It actually has offensive presence for a defogger that corvi doesn't as body press is its only offensive move and so it isn't as passive as corvi and earth power gives mons like mage and melm which would expect to force out hydreigon only to be forced out themselves.
Hydreigon also checks other stuff like slow family, nidoking and regieleki.
EDIT: also going to add that running bb on corvi isn't nice at all considering u neither deal that much dmg while having a recoil for a bulky mon. Esp considering that burn is so common in the current meta and u need to spend more turns recovering from recoils ehich u could avoid bcoz honestly its not worth running on it. Not saying its bad but it def doesn't deserve a raise. In fact it should be b imo
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Bug is dead. Mosa being removed from OP
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ss-round-7-voting.3674988/page-6#post-8689965
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ss-round-7-voting.3674988/page-6#post-8689965
Dirkhann
Banned deucer.
I nominate Moltres-Galar from C+ to B or even as high as B+.
I was going through the VR and noticed that, while it was ranked somewhere, this extremely underrated mon was chilling all the way down in C+ when I think it deserves much, much more thanks to its incredible niche on Screens teams. Screens teams are very powerful on the ladder currently, and I would go so far as to argue that this amazing bird is one of the best Screens abusers, alongside the likes of Shift Gear Magearna, Swords Dance Hawlucha, and the like.
Dark and Flying are both obscenely good offensive typings, and Galarian Moltres has its signature Fiery Wrath - a better Dark Pulse in every way - as well as its strong but inaccurate Hurricane, to hit a good chunk of the metagame for massive damage. That Dark/Flying typing offers a unique set of traits defensively, as well; when paired with its incredible bulk it offers HO teams with a mon that can sponge alarming amounts of damage from virtually everything in the tier; it sets up in Spectrier's face, forces Urshifu to use Close Combat instead of its spammable Wicked Blow and with its Dual Screens support active can eat quite literally any unboosted or non-critical hit from anything in the tier.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar through Light Screen: 288-340 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (288, 292, 295, 298, 303, 306, 309, 312, 316, 319, 322, 325, 330, 333, 336, 340)
Yes, that's right; with just a bit of HP investment it can always live Modest Magearna's STAB, super-effective, Specs-boosted Fleur Cannon from full HP with Screens up. This isn't a practical situation whatsoever, but it showcases just how ludicrously bulky Galarian Moltres can be with Screens active.
Magearna has showcased that Screens support on bulky setup mons with good defensive typings can make for an exceptional user of Weakness Policy, and Galarian Moltres takes inspiration from that set; it can set up an Agility against an offensive team or a Nasty Plot against a defensive team, or potentially set up either one of each or two of one depending on the matchup, the switch(es) it forces, etc.
Naturally, or under Screens, Galarian Moltres can abuse its incredible Berserk ability as well, allowing it to turn a super effective hit into a death sentence for the opponent. It's possible for this thing to get to +5 Special Attack in a single turn if hit by a super effective attack that drops it low enough, or +3 Special Attack and +2 Speed if it sets up an Agility instead.
Urshifu, Spectrier, and other powerful breakers and/or sweepers that either give Offense hell or find their way onto opposing Offensive teams are normally very irritating; Galarian Moltres can flip the script on these guys by treating them as total setup fodder while it's behind Screens. As they trend upward, Screens teams have ever-increasing incentive to run something that gives the team more of a defensive backbone in the face of these heavy-hitters. It also completely exploits some Mandibuzz sets, currently; its Dark/Flying cousin is so strapped for moveslots at the moment that it often finds itself giving Galarian Moltres free setup opportunities simply by virtue of being unable to run Toxic and keep all of the many, many things it's tasked with walling at bay.
It also pairs incredibly well with other trends that fit on the sorts of teams Galarian Moltres finds itself thriving on: Rillaboom, Magearna, Quiver Dance Pheromosa, Regieleki, Tapu Koko, suicide lead Landorus-Therian, Dragonite, and the like all have some level of synergy with Galarian Moltres, either by virtue of breaking open holes to better enable it or by virtue of capitalizing on the damage a boosted Galarian Moltres is able to churn out.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar through Light Screen: 103-122 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- 19.7% chance to 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Fiery Wrath vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 339-400 (111.8 - 132%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yes, that's right; it can set up once on Nidoking even without Screens and OHKO it in return with Fiery Wrath.
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar: 222-263 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Moltres-Galar through Reflect: 128-151 (36.8 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Fiery Wrath vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 324-382 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Under Screens it sets up on Scarf Lando-T, which needs to compromise quite a lot of its offensive prowess to survive its more reliable STAB option. Also, it triggers Berserk quite frequently if Screens are not up, thus ensuring an OHKO.
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 357-421 (90.6 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar: 164-194 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 73.8% chance to 2HKO
It can set up on Clefable even without Screens support. If it lands a boosted Hurricane, Clef is going to have an extremely bad time. Anything beyond +2 is outright lethal, and because it can sponge a hit from Clefable it can realistically just Nasty Plot in its face even if it gets hit by the yellow color in the process.
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 288-340 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Spectrier Hex (130 BP) vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar through Light Screen: 71-84 (20.4 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after burn damage
Yes, it can get 2HKOed by Specs Hex after eating status. But with Screens up it instead sets up in Spectrier's face.
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Mandibuzz: 327-385 (77.3 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Fiery Wrath vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Heatran: 198-234 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 231-273 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Some of these spreads may be a bit dated, but often the "dated-ness" trends towards the defensive investment some of these things run; Galarian Moltres even more solidly 2HKOs or OHKOs much of these threats after a boost now.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1238882883
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1238884600
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1238886512
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1238987627
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1239289483
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1239826064
TL;DR: Galarian Moltres is an extremely underrated threat that breathes some new life into the Screens HO archetype and abuses its unique set of traits unlike anything else in the tier when supported by such a team, and in my opinion deserves a considerable rise as a result. This thing is fucking awesome and should be explored more, in my opinion!
Would like to support this nomination but wouldn't go as far as B, I think B- is okay for now. Its typing is a god send for HO Screens teams in need of a Spectrier/Urshifu check which can also threaten to sweep the opposing team back. None of the other mons in C+ accomplishes that, though It definitely still has a fair share of shortcomings, like being weak to SR and losing hard to Magearna (arguably the best mon in the tier).
Not much else to say that hasn't been said already so I'm just gonna provide some replays of games I played in the 18+ elo range that while not being too impressive do showcase some of the mon's strengths:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1241742880-701o1n2xddq5vqj0c09nmekq9p27gwfpw
Here it just kinda shows its good match up vs rain teams just being a hard mon to kill and punching holes through the opposing team ultimately forcing Urshifu to lock itself into the water move allowing Kart to come in and set up to finish the game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1242275280-3f4963kg6baebf5seu4r10wqmze43zvpw
Didn't do much here but it came thru in the end tanking a boosted Kartana hit and overall just having a mon this buky in HO allows you to live strong neutral/boosted hits having a solid offensive check to many threats
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1241742880-701o1n2xddq5vqj0c09nmekq9p27gwfpw
Here it boosts alongside Volcarona somewhat using it as set up fodder. Again taking advantage of its good natural bulk as: +1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar: 229-270 (71.3 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and if it's bulky Volc its even more in favor of Moltres.
Sadly I wasn't able to showcase it's good matchup against Spectrier/Urshifu but there's also that. So yeah a mon this bulky that fits in HO and checks horse/shifu at the same time while providing a Ground immunity is definitely better than stuff like Latias in my opinion. That's a lot of role compression, plus its moves have nasty secondary effects.
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Gotta nom Pheromosa's more buff counterpart.
Buzzwole → B
Unfortunate drop I know, but I feel Buzzwole's niche is becoming less and less important as the metagame goes on. Many metagame trends have been going on recently to the point where I feel it fails to make an impact on teams it went on like it did about a month ago. Glowking becoming more common is pretty bad for it since Buzzwole really cannot do anything against it and with Future Sight in the picture, it cannot really handle stuff it is supposed to check, especially Urshifu-S. Mosa is also banned, and while it couldn't handle QD Mosa, its ability to punish CB Mosa with Rocky Helmet was still a useful niche especially since it was the more common set.
It cannot really make progress against teams with not only Glowking, but with Clefable, Toxapex and Magearna, mons that are super omnipresent, and compared to Slowbro, which can support its teammates extremely well with just Teleport + Future Sight along with the fact that it has more natural longevity I feel Slowbro is generally the physical wall of choice in my eyes compared to Buzzwole, and I feel the more the metagame goes on, Buzzwole becomes increasingly more passive. Its typing is becoming more of a burden than a blessing with it being easily overwhelmed by Glowking, Clefable, Magearna, Spectrier, Heatran, Nidoking, Moltres, Zapdos and Tornadus-T, while most of them don't want to take a Drain Punch, Ice Punch or Toxic to the face, the fact that Buzzwole is so easily forced out by them makes it worse in practice in my eyes, the decrease in Buzzwole usage over the last month speaks for itself.
So yeah I feel Buzzwole is just getting worse and worse despite it still being a pretty good Pokemon, so I feel it deserves to drop to B.
Unfortunate drop I know, but I feel Buzzwole's niche is becoming less and less important as the metagame goes on. Many metagame trends have been going on recently to the point where I feel it fails to make an impact on teams it went on like it did about a month ago. Glowking becoming more common is pretty bad for it since Buzzwole really cannot do anything against it and with Future Sight in the picture, it cannot really handle stuff it is supposed to check, especially Urshifu-S. Mosa is also banned, and while it couldn't handle QD Mosa, its ability to punish CB Mosa with Rocky Helmet was still a useful niche especially since it was the more common set.
It cannot really make progress against teams with not only Glowking, but with Clefable, Toxapex and Magearna, mons that are super omnipresent, and compared to Slowbro, which can support its teammates extremely well with just Teleport + Future Sight along with the fact that it has more natural longevity I feel Slowbro is generally the physical wall of choice in my eyes compared to Buzzwole, and I feel the more the metagame goes on, Buzzwole becomes increasingly more passive. Its typing is becoming more of a burden than a blessing with it being easily overwhelmed by Glowking, Clefable, Magearna, Spectrier, Heatran, Nidoking, Moltres, Zapdos and Tornadus-T, while most of them don't want to take a Drain Punch, Ice Punch or Toxic to the face, the fact that Buzzwole is so easily forced out by them makes it worse in practice in my eyes, the decrease in Buzzwole usage over the last month speaks for itself.
So yeah I feel Buzzwole is just getting worse and worse despite it still being a pretty good Pokemon, so I feel it deserves to drop to B.
Ok so this is first time for me to make a nomination:
Kommo-o B -> B- or even C+:
This mon struggles so hard in ou considering some of the top tier threats just limit it.Kommo only has the defensive rocker set as its only viable set which has... unfortunately dropped.The reason is bcoz future sight tactics being so common that it can't even counter urshifu properly.It also couldn't setup rocks on most defoggers moltres,zapdos and the rare fini.It also doesn't have any decent recovery move,bcoz the only recovery moves r rest and drain punch and rest is bad for obv reasons while drain punch is pretty bad considering clef,fini,lele,moltres, zapdos,landot,torn t and many more mons make it such an unreliable move while burn being common also hurts it .Also urshifu is countered better by buzzwole thanks to its access to roost and typing that also resists cc.Kommo for a defensive mon is broken by so many threats like magearna,lele,torn,nido,np hydreigon, garchomp and many more.The return of chomp and tran also hurts it due to the harsh competition it gets from those.It has some serious movepool issues for its only viable set as body press,sr and eq r mandatory while other moves like stone edge r too unreliable and iron defense is also required to make the most out of it. In conclusion kommo is not bad but seriously struggles in the current ou meta so i think it deserves a drop or two.
Kommo-o B -> B- or even C+:
This mon struggles so hard in ou considering some of the top tier threats just limit it.Kommo only has the defensive rocker set as its only viable set which has... unfortunately dropped.The reason is bcoz future sight tactics being so common that it can't even counter urshifu properly.It also couldn't setup rocks on most defoggers moltres,zapdos and the rare fini.It also doesn't have any decent recovery move,bcoz the only recovery moves r rest and drain punch and rest is bad for obv reasons while drain punch is pretty bad considering clef,fini,lele,moltres, zapdos,landot,torn t and many more mons make it such an unreliable move while burn being common also hurts it .Also urshifu is countered better by buzzwole thanks to its access to roost and typing that also resists cc.Kommo for a defensive mon is broken by so many threats like magearna,lele,torn,nido,np hydreigon, garchomp and many more.The return of chomp and tran also hurts it due to the harsh competition it gets from those.It has some serious movepool issues for its only viable set as body press,sr and eq r mandatory while other moves like stone edge r too unreliable and iron defense is also required to make the most out of it. In conclusion kommo is not bad but seriously struggles in the current ou meta so i think it deserves a drop or two.
Seems more like Buzzwole needs an adaptation to its moveset, not that it falls off. I am saying that because Buzzwole stats are high enough that it can vary its movepool and still be excellent. For example: Earthquake deals with mons like Glowking which Buzzwole "cannot do anything against it":Gotta nom Pheromosa's more buff counterpart.
Buzzwole → B
Unfortunate drop I know, but I feel Buzzwole's niche is becoming less and less important as the metagame goes on. Many metagame trends have been going on recently to the point where I feel it fails to make an impact on teams it went on like it did about a month ago. Glowking becoming more common is pretty bad for it since Buzzwole really cannot do anything against it [...]
So yeah I feel Buzzwole is just getting worse and worse despite it still being a pretty good Pokemon, so I feel it deserves to drop to B.
0 Atk Buzzwole Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Buzzwole Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 170-202 (46.7 - 55.4%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Buzzwole Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 102-122 (33.5 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO --> Toxapex is too fat.
etc.
I also can't think of a mon like Buzzwole with massive defensive stats, reliable recovery and being a fighting and dark resist at the same time. I honestly can't think of it being ever unviable or lower rank in OU.
After having tried out galarian moltres for a bit in OU, I think that C+ is underestimating it a good deal. Despite the opportunity cost of not being able to use normal moltres, I think galarian moltres has a strong niche on hyper offense builds due to the unique qualities that it has. One of the best ones is that it turns spectier into setup fodder and can force urshifu into not clicking wicked blow if under veil or screens. A offensive core like glowking and moltres could force urshifu into guessing. It's offensive typing is also very strong. Only magearna, tyranitar, and tapu koko resist it and the rest of its answers rely on sheer sturdiness to wall it like blobs.
I nominate Moltres-Galar from C+ to B or even as high as B+.
I was going through the VR and noticed that, while it was ranked somewhere, this extremely underrated mon was chilling all the way down in C+ when I think it deserves much, much more thanks to its incredible niche on Screens teams. Screens teams are very powerful on the ladder currently, and I would go so far as to argue that this amazing bird is one of the best Screens abusers, alongside the likes of Shift Gear Magearna, Swords Dance Hawlucha, and the like.
Dark and Flying are both obscenely good offensive typings, and Galarian Moltres has its signature Fiery Wrath - a better Dark Pulse in every way - as well as its strong but inaccurate Hurricane, to hit a good chunk of the metagame for massive damage. That Dark/Flying typing offers a unique set of traits defensively, as well; when paired with its incredible bulk it offers HO teams with a mon that can sponge alarming amounts of damage from virtually everything in the tier; it sets up in Spectrier's face, forces Urshifu to use Close Combat instead of its spammable Wicked Blow and with its Dual Screens support active can eat quite literally any unboosted or non-critical hit from anything in the tier.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar through Light Screen: 288-340 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (288, 292, 295, 298, 303, 306, 309, 312, 316, 319, 322, 325, 330, 333, 336, 340)
Yes, that's right; with just a bit of HP investment it can always live Modest Magearna's STAB, super-effective, Specs-boosted Fleur Cannon from full HP with Screens up. This isn't a practical situation whatsoever, but it showcases just how ludicrously bulky Galarian Moltres can be with Screens active.
Magearna has showcased that Screens support on bulky setup mons with good defensive typings can make for an exceptional user of Weakness Policy, and Galarian Moltres takes inspiration from that set; it can set up an Agility against an offensive team or a Nasty Plot against a defensive team, or potentially set up either one of each or two of one depending on the matchup, the switch(es) it forces, etc.
Naturally, or under Screens, Galarian Moltres can abuse its incredible Berserk ability as well, allowing it to turn a super effective hit into a death sentence for the opponent. It's possible for this thing to get to +5 Special Attack in a single turn if hit by a super effective attack that drops it low enough, or +3 Special Attack and +2 Speed if it sets up an Agility instead.
Urshifu, Spectrier, and other powerful breakers and/or sweepers that either give Offense hell or find their way onto opposing Offensive teams are normally very irritating; Galarian Moltres can flip the script on these guys by treating them as total setup fodder while it's behind Screens. As they trend upward, Screens teams have ever-increasing incentive to run something that gives the team more of a defensive backbone in the face of these heavy-hitters. It also completely exploits some Mandibuzz sets, currently; its Dark/Flying cousin is so strapped for moveslots at the moment that it often finds itself giving Galarian Moltres free setup opportunities simply by virtue of being unable to run Toxic and keep all of the many, many things it's tasked with walling at bay.
It also pairs incredibly well with other trends that fit on the sorts of teams Galarian Moltres finds itself thriving on: Rillaboom, Magearna, Quiver Dance Pheromosa, Regieleki, Tapu Koko, suicide lead Landorus-Therian, Dragonite, and the like all have some level of synergy with Galarian Moltres, either by virtue of breaking open holes to better enable it or by virtue of capitalizing on the damage a boosted Galarian Moltres is able to churn out.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar through Light Screen: 103-122 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- 19.7% chance to 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Fiery Wrath vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 339-400 (111.8 - 132%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yes, that's right; it can set up once on Nidoking even without Screens and OHKO it in return with Fiery Wrath.
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar: 222-263 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Moltres-Galar through Reflect: 128-151 (36.8 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Fiery Wrath vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 324-382 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Under Screens it sets up on Scarf Lando-T, which needs to compromise quite a lot of its offensive prowess to survive its more reliable STAB option. Also, it triggers Berserk quite frequently if Screens are not up, thus ensuring an OHKO.
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 357-421 (90.6 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar: 164-194 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 73.8% chance to 2HKO
It can set up on Clefable even without Screens support. If it lands a boosted Hurricane, Clef is going to have an extremely bad time. Anything beyond +2 is outright lethal, and because it can sponge a hit from Clefable it can realistically just Nasty Plot in its face even if it gets hit by the yellow color in the process.
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 288-340 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Spectrier Hex (130 BP) vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar through Light Screen: 71-84 (20.4 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after burn damage
Yes, it can get 2HKOed by Specs Hex after eating status. But with Screens up it instead sets up in Spectrier's face.
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Mandibuzz: 327-385 (77.3 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Fiery Wrath vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Heatran: 198-234 (51.2 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 231-273 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Some of these spreads may be a bit dated, but often the "dated-ness" trends towards the defensive investment some of these things run; Galarian Moltres even more solidly 2HKOs or OHKOs much of these threats after a boost now.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1238882883
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1238884600
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1238886512
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1238987627
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1239289483
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1239826064
TL;DR: Galarian Moltres is an extremely underrated threat that breathes some new life into the Screens HO archetype and abuses its unique set of traits unlike anything else in the tier when supported by such a team, and in my opinion deserves a considerable rise as a result. This thing is fucking awesome and should be explored more, in my opinion!
Not the highest on the ladder yet, but here are some replays of it in action.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1247172538-jlqx70s6dv4atjaiwekv51f1w7gvd6qpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1247169690
Because I'm bored and to touch upon some of my personal rankings in the other thread I think Spectrier, Ursh, Magearna should be S rank. Not only are they the most restricting mons in the tier to account for they're some of the easiest to use. Spectrier is a bit one dimensional but it does great doing it because accounting for SubCM set on paper feels a lot different in practice and when it's right in your face. It has the utility of the other sets as well but building around SubCM isn't hard with the amount of hazard control options you can utilize and the set itself is really strong. Magearna is broken and again really easy to use and doesnt have the one dimensional factor since Specs and Set up variants all viable either blowing back bulkier builds or just cleaning out a team. Defensive teams borderline unviable with the combination of this, Spectrier, and Ursh in the tier and makes everything pretty volatile right now. Same deal with Ursh, Mr. Click Buttons, warps the metagame in a way where it fools people into thinking overrated Slowbro is good when it's Ursh itself that puts the large teambuild constraint. The good checks are easy to wear down and it has ways outside of like G-Weezing to get past most of the things that it's suppose to handle.
I know it was mentioned earlier but I don't think we need an S- rank I think we just need the above 3 in S and some of the overrated things like Kartana, Slowbro, Mandibuzz and a bit of the inflation to move down and the real threats and good stuff like Cinderace which has a case of S but not in comparison to the big 3, to move up in A+. Dont think Nidoking should move up as described by some granted it's really strong but matchup against offense especially anything with a banded Rillaboom (an A rank mon easily) it's going to have to do extra leg work to really get use out of it. Plus the scarf Nido set isnt enough to really push it any higher even though its better against offense not so much against bulkier stuff.
I know it was mentioned earlier but I don't think we need an S- rank I think we just need the above 3 in S and some of the overrated things like Kartana, Slowbro, Mandibuzz and a bit of the inflation to move down and the real threats and good stuff like Cinderace which has a case of S but not in comparison to the big 3, to move up in A+. Dont think Nidoking should move up as described by some granted it's really strong but matchup against offense especially anything with a banded Rillaboom (an A rank mon easily) it's going to have to do extra leg work to really get use out of it. Plus the scarf Nido set isnt enough to really push it any higher even though its better against offense not so much against bulkier stuff.
New poster here, my knowledge on the game may be limited, but I want to ask why Rotom - Wash is ranked so low. He can spread status, slow pivot with Volt Switch on his defensive builds, and the only mon on my team I fully trust to counter Melmetal as no others want to switch in on him. He is my go to for absorbing hits and recovering with Pain Split. Threatens physical sweepers with Will O Wisp. Also, helps to stop some passive mons by tricking them a choice scarf or specs. I'm just confused as to why it's ranked low. I'm wrong most probably.
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Mostly he's just outclassed. Heattoms typing is more valued and other bulky waters can do what it does
There's nothing wrong with Rotom-Wash, it just struggles to compete for a teamslot at the moment due to being pretty much worthless in regards to checking the biggest threats in the metagame like Ursh, Spect, Mage, and Cinder, who currently leave very little room for something that doesn't aid in handling at least one. Most Volturn builds would rather use something like a max HP Specs Mage to Slowturn because its bulk is immense and its power is unparalleled, Rotom is sadly fairly weak and frail in comparison.
Most of this applies to Rotom-Heat btw, they're fairly similar but Rotom-W's biggest advantage is scaring Heatran whereas Heat is pretty helpless vs it, as well as being a water resist ofc.
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Thanks for clarifying. But I still don't know why Rotom - H was placed in C+ while Rotom - W is in C. To cover that stealth Rock weakness, RH has to use boots, which takes away his leftovers and decreases his longevity. Also, Fire/Electric gives it weakness to Water and Rock, which isn't good news for a defensive mon. But I can still understand why both would be placed low when better pivots and walls are available. Thank You.
They're both pretty poor picks in the current meta but
is able to run a decent specially defensive set that can check Magearna really well, and non Knock Off Clefable. Heat also comes in better on Zapdos than Wash because it resists all its moves outside rain whereas Wash takes neutral from Discharges and Tbolts. Its mostly the resistance to Fairy types that makes Heattom better than Wash, but Heattom is outclasses in most scenarios as a defensive Fire by Heatran and Moltres whereas Washtom is outclassed as a defensive Water type by over half a dozen mons.
Down:
A- => B: Ttar is a solid defensive mon, but it's also on the passive side and has a glaring 4x weakness to fighting. It walls spectrier, but other than that I think Hippowdon, which has less weaknesses and access to healing, is the better sand setter
A+ => A: Ferrothorn is still fantastic, but its lack of healing outside of leech seed means it is sometimes outclassed by walls with healing or regen. It's still an elite defensive/utility mon.
B- => C: Ditto is very gimmicky and situational. It's a decent revenge killer, but it is limited by needing scarf to avoid speed ties. Definitely not better than Amoongus, Togekiss or Mamoswine.
Up:
A+ => S: I did a post on this in the metagame discussion thread that goes more in depth about this, but to summarize, I feel that Urshifu is the most broken mon in the tier right now. The raw strength of wicked blow can power through basically anything not named Buzzwole. There's just not enough defensive counterplay
B+ => A: Lele is a great special attacker. Its got great coverage, good stabs and specs Psychic on psy terrain hits ridiculously hard. It's also got solid special bulk.
B- => A-: Glowking continues to rise in usage, and for good reason. It's not too far off to call this thing the best assault vester in the game. Good defensive typing+good coverage+regen makes this pokemon a super bulky threat that can dish out damage as well as take it.
A- => B: Ttar is a solid defensive mon, but it's also on the passive side and has a glaring 4x weakness to fighting. It walls spectrier, but other than that I think Hippowdon, which has less weaknesses and access to healing, is the better sand setter A+ => A: Ferrothorn is still fantastic, but its lack of healing outside of leech seed means it is sometimes outclassed by walls with healing or regen. It's still an elite defensive/utility mon. B- => C: Ditto is very gimmicky and situational. It's a decent revenge killer, but it is limited by needing scarf to avoid speed ties. Definitely not better than Amoongus, Togekiss or Mamoswine.Up:
A+ => S: I did a post on this in the metagame discussion thread that goes more in depth about this, but to summarize, I feel that Urshifu is the most broken mon in the tier right now. The raw strength of wicked blow can power through basically anything not named Buzzwole. There's just not enough defensive counterplay B+ => A: Lele is a great special attacker. Its got great coverage, good stabs and specs Psychic on psy terrain hits ridiculously hard. It's also got solid special bulk. B- => A-: Glowking continues to rise in usage, and for good reason. It's not too far off to call this thing the best assault vester in the game. Good defensive typing+good coverage+regen makes this pokemon a super bulky threat that can dish out damage as well as take it.I would like to make some nomimations.
Cinderace A -> A+ :- The LO and HBD set are already known by everyone. Cinderace, is a Pokemon who gets way too many things done right now. He is my favorite bait for Heatran right now which come in on an expected Pyro Ball and get rekt with HJK, which allows my Shift Gear Magearna to run rampant. Cinderace provides immense support to teams whether it be by pivoting or switching hazards with Court Change. It's a niche move but good nonetheless. One more thing is how easily he gains momentum. Cinderace puts in work everyone he comes on the field. And the life orb set can sweep easily late game, and HBD set will do that with more chip damage. Cinderace's ability to check some of the biggest threats in OU right now (Mag and Urshifu locked onto anything but Sucker Punch) is very useful. Cinderace can act as a cleaner, pivot, hazard controller and provides precious momentum and fast offensive presence for HO teams.
Ferrothorn A+ -> A :- Ferrothorn is still good and probably the best hazard setter right now (aside from SR Clefable maybe) but he provides a safe switch in for Cinderace and Urshifu, both of whom can be destructive. Also, Volcarona can setup on his face and if Volc's checks are taken out, sending in Ferrothorn is digging your own grave. Cinderace can also court change his rocks and spikes and undo all the progress.
Kartana A -> B+ It's a big dip, but Kartana has no use outside of his scarf set to me. Mandibuzz is everywhere as a Spectrier check and defogger, and Sword Dance set is eaten for dinner by Foul Play Mandibuzz. Also, without Scarf he gets out speed by Cinderace, who will Half Hit KO it. Even the scarf set isn't doing anything to Mandibuzz, who has 50% chance of OHKO'ing you at +1.
Tapu Lele B+ -> A- :- Scarf Tapu Lele is a very good revenge killer right now due to Psychic terrains priority block and outstanding offensive capabilities. Psyshock in terrain is too strong. Also, he can check both Banded Urshifu and Spectrier (not behind sub) which is a plus point for anyone right now. Also, performs as a wall breaker with specs but Latios is better for that I believe.
Bisharp C -> B- :- Bisharp's access to sucker punch and Knock off make him a good check to Spectrier. But the reason I actually nominated him is his ability to punish defog. With some prior damage, all the common defoggers in the tier fall prey to +2 Knock Off or Iron Head, and those who switch in to take a hit get crippled by losing their items. This is a win - win draw for the Bisharp user as he is making progress anyways. While Urshifu is dominating the tier right now, Urshifu demolishes every dark type except Mandibuzz right now. And one thing to note is that Urshifu isn't switching in on LO +2 iron head anytime soon, so they will need to sack a mon to bring him in. Of course, there are drawbacks like Moltres could possibly cripple him with a contact burn or Zapdos restricting him to Sucker punch alone due to Paralysis, but he is still a good mon.
Cinderace A -> A+ :- The LO and HBD set are already known by everyone. Cinderace, is a Pokemon who gets way too many things done right now. He is my favorite bait for Heatran right now which come in on an expected Pyro Ball and get rekt with HJK, which allows my Shift Gear Magearna to run rampant. Cinderace provides immense support to teams whether it be by pivoting or switching hazards with Court Change. It's a niche move but good nonetheless. One more thing is how easily he gains momentum. Cinderace puts in work everyone he comes on the field. And the life orb set can sweep easily late game, and HBD set will do that with more chip damage. Cinderace's ability to check some of the biggest threats in OU right now (Mag and Urshifu locked onto anything but Sucker Punch) is very useful. Cinderace can act as a cleaner, pivot, hazard controller and provides precious momentum and fast offensive presence for HO teams.
Ferrothorn A+ -> A :- Ferrothorn is still good and probably the best hazard setter right now (aside from SR Clefable maybe) but he provides a safe switch in for Cinderace and Urshifu, both of whom can be destructive. Also, Volcarona can setup on his face and if Volc's checks are taken out, sending in Ferrothorn is digging your own grave. Cinderace can also court change his rocks and spikes and undo all the progress.
Kartana A -> B+ It's a big dip, but Kartana has no use outside of his scarf set to me. Mandibuzz is everywhere as a Spectrier check and defogger, and Sword Dance set is eaten for dinner by Foul Play Mandibuzz. Also, without Scarf he gets out speed by Cinderace, who will Half Hit KO it. Even the scarf set isn't doing anything to Mandibuzz, who has 50% chance of OHKO'ing you at +1.
Tapu Lele B+ -> A- :- Scarf Tapu Lele is a very good revenge killer right now due to Psychic terrains priority block and outstanding offensive capabilities. Psyshock in terrain is too strong. Also, he can check both Banded Urshifu and Spectrier (not behind sub) which is a plus point for anyone right now. Also, performs as a wall breaker with specs but Latios is better for that I believe.
Bisharp C -> B- :- Bisharp's access to sucker punch and Knock off make him a good check to Spectrier. But the reason I actually nominated him is his ability to punish defog. With some prior damage, all the common defoggers in the tier fall prey to +2 Knock Off or Iron Head, and those who switch in to take a hit get crippled by losing their items. This is a win - win draw for the Bisharp user as he is making progress anyways. While Urshifu is dominating the tier right now, Urshifu demolishes every dark type except Mandibuzz right now. And one thing to note is that Urshifu isn't switching in on LO +2 iron head anytime soon, so they will need to sack a mon to bring him in. Of course, there are drawbacks like Moltres could possibly cripple him with a contact burn or Zapdos restricting him to Sucker punch alone due to Paralysis, but he is still a good mon.
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