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Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]
- Thread starter Finchinator
- Start date
- Status
Had a few simple noms and comments to make after the slate, overall really happy with the rises and drops.
C -> C-
Marowak-Alola
C -> C-
Neither Marowak-Alola nor Cresselia have any legitimate niche outside of Trick Room that has seen any use in any competitive format, let alone standalone casual use. I don't understand why this was glossed over, or if this was seriously voted on, how did either pass and what evidence is there to support that decision? Both belong in C- grouped with the other Trick Room specifics, without question.
On a more unrelated and somber note, remember to hold your loved ones closely, cherish your time with them, and make a positive impact and live rightly with kindness and justness. For those of you unfamiliar with the context of the situation, a popular Minecraft Youtuber named Technoblade had in months past discovered he had cancer. Not many months after, it developed into stage four cancer which recently took his life at the age of 23. I never followed him closely, nor has anyone close to me, but the impact he made on other's lives outstretched tremendously. Yet, his untimely death was a stern reminder to me that you are never too young or old, rich or poor, popular or unpopular, educated or uneducated, wise or unwise, to be taken at an instant. You are never too early or late to make the necessary changes in your life so long as you make them now. Others have ran the race before you; fight the good fight, seek what is good not simply for the sake of your immediate benefit or desires before you have the time to regret doing otherwise.
I hope you all have a good night.
Had people telling me Air Balloon was gimmicky and niched not that long ago (mind you, in the face of other sets like CB or Defog) even though it has almost always had the potential to be a threatening endgame sweeper which can functionally shut down teams quickly. Happy to see it moving up the VR in the face of the recent metagame changes, they seem relatively prosperous for Blaziken.from B- to B
Many teams drop bulky Waters like Toxapex, Slowbro, and Tapu Fini in favor of Rotom-W or Gastrodon, making Blaziken a big threat. We've been seeing more Air Balloon, which allows it to set up on even Ground-types, alongside the usual setup targets like Weavile.
I'll refer to what I've said above, but Scizor really has no claim to fame. Even with Ninetales-Alola facilitating irritating breakers to no end with a fast Aurora Veil and a revolving door of utility options, Scizor is very matchup dependent and it is a difficult task for it to muscle past its answers without some serious setup. Not to mention the fact that it gets shut down by Lele, adding to the pile of already stacked checks you have to be concerned about. Defensive are sets unremarkable at best, which have limited utility and are rather passive.ScizorB -> B-
Walmart Corviknight. Its defensive sets are subpar at best in most cases and its only other niche is as a screens HO member, which is rather mediocre still. It belongs among the likes of other fringe HO picks like Blaziken or Celesteela (which can occasionally find their way into other builds).
CresseliaC
...
C -> C-Marowak-Alola
C -> C-Neither Marowak-Alola nor Cresselia have any legitimate niche outside of Trick Room that has seen any use in any competitive format, let alone standalone casual use. I don't understand why this was glossed over, or if this was seriously voted on, how did either pass and what evidence is there to support that decision? Both belong in C- grouped with the other Trick Room specifics, without question.
It can run Choice Band which, while being choice locked, gives it a flexible moveslot to get around stuff like Zapdos with. That's usually the case.
On a more unrelated and somber note, remember to hold your loved ones closely, cherish your time with them, and make a positive impact and live rightly with kindness and justness. For those of you unfamiliar with the context of the situation, a popular Minecraft Youtuber named Technoblade had in months past discovered he had cancer. Not many months after, it developed into stage four cancer which recently took his life at the age of 23. I never followed him closely, nor has anyone close to me, but the impact he made on other's lives outstretched tremendously. Yet, his untimely death was a stern reminder to me that you are never too young or old, rich or poor, popular or unpopular, educated or uneducated, wise or unwise, to be taken at an instant. You are never too early or late to make the necessary changes in your life so long as you make them now. Others have ran the race before you; fight the good fight, seek what is good not simply for the sake of your immediate benefit or desires before you have the time to regret doing otherwise.
I hope you all have a good night.
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i dont need one nor do i ever intend on needing one, gz on getting this unmon ranked tho
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Why did slowbro drop a subrank and why did clefable and weavile not rise?With the World Cup of Pokemon bringing along many metagame shakeups, we've got a fairly big update.
Rises
from A+ to S-
Melmetal has become a very prominent threat recently. It's very moldable to a team's needs, as it's able to run a variety of sets, but Toxic variants are especially potent and tough to deal with.
from A to A+
Choice Scarf makes for a strong cleaner and can also set up a breaker with Future Sight, while Choice Specs and Calm Mind can be a nightmare for more defensive teams to deal with.
from A to A+
Taunt to stop "checks" like Buzzwole, Dragonite, Clefable, Zapdos, and Corviknight from healing up and Toxapex from using Toxic, with Protective Pads to avoid Rocky Helmet, Iron Barbs, and Rough Skin damage as well as Static and Flame Body, makes Urshifu both punishing and hard to punish. It pairs well with the aforementioned Future Sight Tapu Lele, as it makes Close Combat nigh impossible to switch into and they can cover eachother's checks remarkably well.
from A to A+
As it has both great offensive and defensive capabilities, offensive and defensive sets both work well. Offensively, Thunderbolt/Volt Switch + Hurricane is tough to switch into, especially if you add Weather Ball in rain in the mix, and defensively, it's a good (and, thanks to Static, annoying) check to the likes of Kartana, Rillaboom, Tornadus-T, Zapdos-Galar, non-Stone Edge Hawlucha, and even Urshifu and Buzzwole in a pinch.
from A- to A
Rotom-Wash is a great pivot, and makes for a nice check to threats like Melmetal, Excadrill, and Volcanion. It's quite customizable, with Pain Split, alongside a Spikes immunity, giving it great longevity, all of Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, and Thunder Wave being viable status options (though Will-O-Wisp is usually the best choice to cripple the likes of Melmetal), and Defog allowing it to keep rocks off against both Heatran and Landorus-T. Nasty Plot is also an option that's very threatening to various teams.
from B+ to A-
The slug checks a ton of common threats, including, but not limited to, Heatran, Tapu Koko, Zapdos, Dragapult, Rotom-W, Volcanion, Nidoking, non-Giga Drain Volcarona, and non-Freeze-Dry Arctozolt. Storm Drain gives it a great matchup against the surging rain archetype.
from B+ to A-
from B- to B
from C+ to B-
Rain is doing very well at the moment in the form of Pelipper + Barraskewda + Ferrothorn + Zapdos + Seismitoad + Volcanion/Crawdaunt/etc. Both rain-boosted Liquidation and Flip Turn, with Close Combat for Ferrothorn, from Barraskewda are tough to deal with, Seismitoad is a nice cleaner with great coverage and a good typing, and Crawdaunt patches up rain's matchup against defensive teams.
from B+ to A-
Sand is also doing well. Tyranitar is very hard to switch into if it's holding a Choice Band and it has a decent defensive profile to boot, being able to check Heatran, Slowking-Galar, Blacephalon, and Volcarona in a pinch, while also shutting down hail. Excadrill can be a threat for various teams, as it outspeeds almost the entire metagame in sand and common Pokemon like Clefable, Tapu Koko, and non-Heat Wave Zapdos can be setup fodder.
from B to B+
We've seen a rise in fatter Swords Dance Rillaboom sets with Leftovers. It has solid bulk, useful priority, can Knock Off some key targets, and Grassy Terrain provides great support for teammates like Heatran and Melmetal, by giving them passive recovery and weakening Earthquake.
from B- to B
Many teams drop bulky Waters like Toxapex, Slowbro, and Tapu Fini in favor of Rotom-W or Gastrodon, making Blaziken a big threat. We've been seeing more Air Balloon, which allows it to set up on even Ground-types, alongside the usual setup targets like Weavile.
from B- to B
Since Nature's Madness and Dazzling Gleam are very punishing for both Landorus-T and Garchomp, Hippowdon is one of the few Ground-types alongside Gastrodon that can reliably check this increasingly common Tapu Koko set.
from UR to C-
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-634305
from UR to C-
Niche rocker on HO with Stealth Rock + Taunt + Steel Beam, while it's also able to function as a solid Weavile check.
Drops
from A+ to A
from A to A-
While still very solid Pokemon, we've been seeing less teams opt for Slowbro and Tapu Fini as their bulky Water of choice, in favor of more Rotom-W, Gastrodon, and Urshifu/Volcanion/Dragonite + Ferrothorn. Slowbro is quite vulnerable to status (like Toxic from the likes of Melmetal), weak to pivoting + Spikes (provided no HDB), has only one slot as a main attacking move outside of FuturePort which makes it limiting, and needs SpDef investment if it wants to check Choice Specs Volcanion, while Tapu Fini isn't really a Volcanion check at all and also suffers from an increase in Melmetal and Zapdos usage.
from A to A-
Volcarona has trouble getting past common Pokemon like Heatran, Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Gastrodon, while matchup up poorly against both rain and sand.
from A to A-
Zeraora is still a good Pokemon with great cleaning potential, but it's lacking when it comes to immediate power, making it sometimes hard to justify running.
from A- to B+
Using Magnezone is often a big opportunity cost, as outside of trapping key targets like Ferrothorn, Corviknight, and Melmetal (with the latter usually running Earthquake, making that a difficult task), it's poor both offensively and defensively.
from A- to B+
With a slight dip in Landorus-T usage in favor of other Ground-types like Garchomp, Gastrodon, Excadrill, and Hippowdon, the resident Landorus punisher takes a hit. Additionally, it's poor into Zapdos, which is increasingly common.
from B+ to B
Its Cosmic Power set is a far cry from where it used to be, though it's still viable, alongside its other setup, entry hazard setting, and utility sets.
from B+ to B
Decent HO option, but quite poor into the increasingly common Tyranitar and Tapu Koko.
from B+ to B
With a poor defensive profile outside of checking Tapu Koko, it can be tough to get value out of Nidoking in matchups against checks like Gastrodon, Slowking, and Assault Vest Tornadus-T. While it can be very threatening against various BOs, it still requires the user to make the right plays, making it rather hit-or-miss.
from B+ to B
Less Landorus-T as the pick for a Ground-type and more SpDef Garchomp, Gastrodon, Excadrill, and Hippowdon makes it tougher to get value out of Nihilego.
from B- to C+
Still a threat on rain, but Zapdos is the more consistent option, alongside Seismitoad for the Electric immunity.
from C+ to C
Ice + Ground is good, but not into the increasingly common Rotom-W.
from C to C-
from C to C-
These two are only usable on stall and uncommon even on stall.
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
As time goes on, the reasons to use these Pokemon become less and less apparent.
from C to UR
Grimmsnarl is largely outclassed, as Ninetales-Alola is a much better dual screen setter, which makes Grimmsnarl niche to the point it's not worth ranking anymore.
As I've already explained every change to varying extents (and Finch is on vacation), I'd like to refer questions and discussions regarding these changes to the SQSA and metagame discussion threads, respectively. You can read up in this thread for additional reasoning behind the noms that went through, and you can also check out the WCoP replays as an additional resource.
Nominations are open.
Also, have a nice summer (or winter) everyone.
I feel like Terrakion should rise at least a subrank because he can also run air balloon while having a better stab against the meta, I'm advocating for his Gen 5 double dance set basically just because it can still rip holes into many teams and sweep. Blaziken can't touch dnite for example while terrakion can deal hefty damage to dnite. Also terrakion is stronger and is faster than everything after a rock polish which is easy to come by because Lando-T is so common (reminder that double dance terrakion is running air balloon.)With the World Cup of Pokemon bringing along many metagame shakeups, we've got a fairly big update.
Rises
from A+ to S-
Melmetal has become a very prominent threat recently. It's very moldable to a team's needs, as it's able to run a variety of sets, but Toxic variants are especially potent and tough to deal with.
from A to A+
Choice Scarf makes for a strong cleaner and can also set up a breaker with Future Sight, while Choice Specs and Calm Mind can be a nightmare for more defensive teams to deal with.
from A to A+
Taunt to stop "checks" like Buzzwole, Dragonite, Clefable, Zapdos, and Corviknight from healing up and Toxapex from using Toxic, with Protective Pads to avoid Rocky Helmet, Iron Barbs, and Rough Skin damage as well as Static and Flame Body, makes Urshifu both punishing and hard to punish. It pairs well with the aforementioned Future Sight Tapu Lele, as it makes Close Combat nigh impossible to switch into and they can cover eachother's checks remarkably well.
from A to A+
As it has both great offensive and defensive capabilities, offensive and defensive sets both work well. Offensively, Thunderbolt/Volt Switch + Hurricane is tough to switch into, especially if you add Weather Ball in rain in the mix, and defensively, it's a good (and, thanks to Static, annoying) check to the likes of Kartana, Rillaboom, Tornadus-T, Zapdos-Galar, non-Stone Edge Hawlucha, and even Urshifu and Buzzwole in a pinch.
from A- to A
Rotom-Wash is a great pivot, and makes for a nice check to threats like Melmetal, Excadrill, and Volcanion. It's quite customizable, with Pain Split, alongside a Spikes immunity, giving it great longevity, all of Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, and Thunder Wave being viable status options (though Will-O-Wisp is usually the best choice to cripple the likes of Melmetal), and Defog allowing it to keep rocks off against both Heatran and Landorus-T. Nasty Plot is also an option that's very threatening to various teams.
from B+ to A-
The slug checks a ton of common threats, including, but not limited to, Heatran, Tapu Koko, Zapdos, Dragapult, Rotom-W, Volcanion, Nidoking, non-Giga Drain Volcarona, and non-Freeze-Dry Arctozolt. Storm Drain gives it a great matchup against the surging rain archetype.
from B+ to A-
from B- to B
from C+ to B-
Rain is doing very well at the moment in the form of Pelipper + Barraskewda + Ferrothorn + Zapdos + Seismitoad + Volcanion/Crawdaunt/etc. Both rain-boosted Liquidation and Flip Turn, with Close Combat for Ferrothorn, from Barraskewda are tough to deal with, Seismitoad is a nice cleaner with great coverage and a good typing, and Crawdaunt patches up rain's matchup against defensive teams.
from B+ to A-
Sand is also doing well. Tyranitar is very hard to switch into if it's holding a Choice Band and it has a decent defensive profile to boot, being able to check Heatran, Slowking-Galar, Blacephalon, and Volcarona in a pinch, while also shutting down hail. Excadrill can be a threat for various teams, as it outspeeds almost the entire metagame in sand and common Pokemon like Clefable, Tapu Koko, and non-Heat Wave Zapdos can be setup fodder.
from B to B+
We've seen a rise in fatter Swords Dance Rillaboom sets with Leftovers. It has solid bulk, useful priority, can Knock Off some key targets, and Grassy Terrain provides great support for teammates like Heatran and Melmetal, by giving them passive recovery and weakening Earthquake.
from B- to B
Many teams drop bulky Waters like Toxapex, Slowbro, and Tapu Fini in favor of Rotom-W or Gastrodon, making Blaziken a big threat. We've been seeing more Air Balloon, which allows it to set up on even Ground-types, alongside the usual setup targets like Weavile.
from B- to B
Since Nature's Madness and Dazzling Gleam are very punishing for both Landorus-T and Garchomp, Hippowdon is one of the few Ground-types alongside Gastrodon that can reliably check this increasingly common Tapu Koko set.
from UR to C-
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-634305
from UR to C-
Niche rocker on HO with Stealth Rock + Taunt + Steel Beam, while it's also able to function as a solid Weavile check.
Drops
from A+ to A
from A to A-
While still very solid Pokemon, we've been seeing less teams opt for Slowbro and Tapu Fini as their bulky Water of choice, in favor of more Rotom-W, Gastrodon, and Urshifu/Volcanion/Dragonite + Ferrothorn. Slowbro is quite vulnerable to status (like Toxic from the likes of Melmetal), weak to pivoting + Spikes (provided no HDB), has only one slot as a main attacking move outside of FuturePort which makes it limiting, and needs SpDef investment if it wants to check Choice Specs Volcanion, while Tapu Fini isn't really a Volcanion check at all and also suffers from an increase in Melmetal and Zapdos usage.
from A to A-
Volcarona has trouble getting past common Pokemon like Heatran, Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Gastrodon, while matchup up poorly against both rain and sand.
from A to A-
Zeraora is still a good Pokemon with great cleaning potential, but it's lacking when it comes to immediate power, making it sometimes hard to justify running.
from A- to B+
Using Magnezone is often a big opportunity cost, as outside of trapping key targets like Ferrothorn, Corviknight, and Melmetal (with the latter usually running Earthquake, making that a difficult task), it's poor both offensively and defensively.
from A- to B+
With a slight dip in Landorus-T usage in favor of other Ground-types like Garchomp, Gastrodon, Excadrill, and Hippowdon, the resident Landorus punisher takes a hit. Additionally, it's poor into Zapdos, which is increasingly common.
from B+ to B
Its Cosmic Power set is a far cry from where it used to be, though it's still viable, alongside its other setup, entry hazard setting, and utility sets.
from B+ to B
Decent HO option, but quite poor into the increasingly common Tyranitar and Tapu Koko.
from B+ to B
With a poor defensive profile outside of checking Tapu Koko, it can be tough to get value out of Nidoking in matchups against checks like Gastrodon, Slowking, and Assault Vest Tornadus-T. While it can be very threatening against various BOs, it still requires the user to make the right plays, making it rather hit-or-miss.
from B+ to B
Less Landorus-T as the pick for a Ground-type and more SpDef Garchomp, Gastrodon, Excadrill, and Hippowdon makes it tougher to get value out of Nihilego.
from B- to C+
Still a threat on rain, but Zapdos is the more consistent option, alongside Seismitoad for the Electric immunity.
from C+ to C
Ice + Ground is good, but not into the increasingly common Rotom-W.
from C to C-
from C to C-
These two are only usable on stall and uncommon even on stall.
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
As time goes on, the reasons to use these Pokemon become less and less apparent.
from C to UR
Grimmsnarl is largely outclassed, as Ninetales-Alola is a much better dual screen setter, which makes Grimmsnarl niche to the point it's not worth ranking anymore.
As I've already explained every change to varying extents (and Finch is on vacation), I'd like to refer questions and discussions regarding these changes to the SQSA and metagame discussion threads, respectively. You can read up in this thread for additional reasoning behind the noms that went through, and you can also check out the WCoP replays as an additional resource.
Nominations are open.
Also, have a nice summer (or winter) everyone.
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 169-201 (52.3 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 339-400 (104.9 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO or straight up beat him.
Gengar certainly doesn't appreciate the uptick in sdef gastro but it has a valid niche over other ghosts. Namely, being faster than kart+beating fairy types+not worrying about toxic from blissey is all stuff only gengar has. Gengar does indeed get forced out by everything, which is why I use specs. You get your big hits in and then you run away. Specs gengar is weaker than specs clown but still hits major benchmarks for power like 2hko'ing sdef lando-t after rocks. However, specs is useless vs stall, so you run trick+NP on specs too. That way you can cripple the toxapex or whatever and put in work with NP, beat unaware clef with sludge bomb/wave, and absorb toxic/tspikes. I've done testing with scarf trick+np and I find it's way too weak to even revenge kill very effectively, Specs is great vs BO but helpless vs fatter teams, and NP is great vs fat but has no immediate power and sucks everywhere else. My own testing tells me that specs trick+np is the best set to keep a good MU vs both BO and stall, and the set in general is honestly not that bad. I run Shadow Ball+Sludge Wave, I find that focus blast is only really needed for ttar, which can be chipped by teammates.
I even have replay because I'm so generous and handsome!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1578307663 - specs clown could do basically the same thing as specs gengar did here, but it's important to note on the last turn that Gengar hits 350 and adamant Weavile hits 349. Ofc outspeeding kart is also very nice.
I disagree with this. I think shuckle is far from the best web setter, much less the only viable one. Web setters like ribombee, slurpuff, araquanid and even orbeetle are all better and can at least set webs vs melmetal and CB urshifu, whereas shuckle has a great chance to just get flinched by DIB or ohko'd by band surging strikes and fail to do anything. Compressing webs+rocks is a complete meme and shuckle will never keep up both in the face of competent hazard control, it cannot keep hazards off like other setters can with magic coat, and it will fail to do anything vs threats like melmetal and CB urshifu, while every other setter can at least get up webs. If webs can be considered a legitimate fish, shuckle should be UR and I would consider ranking at least orbeetle and slurpuff at C- if not ribombee and araquanid as well.
Ik some of you may be raising eyebrows at Orbeetle so let me post the set and explain myself
Orbeetle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Magic Coat
- Hypnosis
- U-turn
Max speed hits 306 which is not bad. The main benefits orbeetle offers over the other web setters is access to hypnosis, magic coat, U-turn, and frisk. Natural bulk/typing allows you to survive band surging strikes and non CB DIB from melmetal, unfortunately beat up weavile will kill. Hypnosis is shaky but still threatening, magic coat bounces back taunts hazards etc, u-turn can be used after hypnosis to get teammates in safely, and Frisk can scout items. For example, if you frisk a choice band or focus sash on that weavile, maybe run from the beat up, otherwise you can stay in.
sharing my own sort of personal OU tier list and a few thoughts about the tier + certain mons, reflecting pretty closely how i voted on this last slate. it isn't ordered past A+ tier, and i chose to separate the bottom couple tiers of worse mons by a line of viable vs not viable rather than clear tiers.
(thanks Undorian for the template a few weeks back)
S: i think it's hard to argue that lando and weav aren't still the two best mons in the tier. consistent value in every matchup, both offensively and defensively
A+: my top 5 mons are definitely lando/weav/clef/melm/ferro, in that order. my hottest take on the entire ranking is probably that heatran is barely a top 10 mon - i would say that the majority of its value comes from its ability to offensively click whatever it wants. i firmly believe that its best defensive use is as a sort of mixed pivot thing with flame body to actually punish lando ferro melm weav zolt etc, rather than its conventional spdef flash fire wall that folds to ghosts, lele, and all the other shit it's supposed to check. spdef slam or other teched sets can still be nice as a means of keeping ghosts, cm clef, and gking somewhat at bay but it's still very prone to being worn down easily. offensive balloon is still a demon to switch around but things like rotom and other pivots picking up on speed, as well as magma being kind of unreliable, making it a bit worse than it was a few months ago. it still does have problems keeping its rocks up and can be exploited pretty easily by good pivoting around its offensive tools and by all of the waters in the tier.
the hardest thing while making this was probably deciding how to place and order all of the defensive waters within the tier (being rotom, slowbro, pex, fini, gastro, and slowking, with shifu as an aside that can work pretty well with dragons). idk if shifu is really the 6th best mon in the tier but the overwhelming mus it gets vs any offensive team without the space for a real water, and the momentum machine it is otherwise, are enough to convince me. i think rotom's better set is np rather than the volt pivoter solely for the purpose of being able to actually pressure pex, clef, torn, and bo teams as a whole more, although both can work well depending on teammates. the rest of A+ is the mons i think are the most consistent offensively: shifu, pult, kart, zapdos, lele, and garchomp.
A: might be an unpopular take given its use/win rate but i still think slowbro is decent enough just because of how easily it is to flip all momentum and take advantage of nearly every defensive mon in the tier. however, being pretty easily exploited by status and not having too much offensive or defensive value on its own, being forced to use teleport like 5x more than any other of its moves, takes it out of A+ for me. it has even lost its 6-0 fat mus because of things like light screen pex blocking progression. the other mons here are just at an in-between the consistency of A+ and the potency of A-
A-: most of these are broken fishing mons. i'm not super high on gking personally but this felt like a fine place for it - while it mus pretty well into most offensive stuff it's not that easy to fit onto teams and can get annoyed by things like gastro or fs preparation of any kind in fatter mus. ttar is great for 2 reasons: it can punish ghosts, heatran, and zapdos pretty hard, while being easily one of the best breakers in the tier. i think the rest are mostly self explanatory
there's not much else i wanted to say but here are some minor thoughts on the bottom ranks:
the tier i placed below B are mons who offer something unique enough to not be strictly outclassed by any other one mon, but don't have the usage or actual proof of a niche in the metagame. it would be cool to see some more exploration with these mons. both of the tiers below are full of mons i view as much less consistent or actually outclassed by something else. i think (with the exception of trick room, which might be an oversight) all the mons in the purple bad tier are unviable and not worth using in like any scenario
(thanks Undorian for the template a few weeks back)
S: i think it's hard to argue that lando and weav aren't still the two best mons in the tier. consistent value in every matchup, both offensively and defensively
A+: my top 5 mons are definitely lando/weav/clef/melm/ferro, in that order. my hottest take on the entire ranking is probably that heatran is barely a top 10 mon - i would say that the majority of its value comes from its ability to offensively click whatever it wants. i firmly believe that its best defensive use is as a sort of mixed pivot thing with flame body to actually punish lando ferro melm weav zolt etc, rather than its conventional spdef flash fire wall that folds to ghosts, lele, and all the other shit it's supposed to check. spdef slam or other teched sets can still be nice as a means of keeping ghosts, cm clef, and gking somewhat at bay but it's still very prone to being worn down easily. offensive balloon is still a demon to switch around but things like rotom and other pivots picking up on speed, as well as magma being kind of unreliable, making it a bit worse than it was a few months ago. it still does have problems keeping its rocks up and can be exploited pretty easily by good pivoting around its offensive tools and by all of the waters in the tier.
the hardest thing while making this was probably deciding how to place and order all of the defensive waters within the tier (being rotom, slowbro, pex, fini, gastro, and slowking, with shifu as an aside that can work pretty well with dragons). idk if shifu is really the 6th best mon in the tier but the overwhelming mus it gets vs any offensive team without the space for a real water, and the momentum machine it is otherwise, are enough to convince me. i think rotom's better set is np rather than the volt pivoter solely for the purpose of being able to actually pressure pex, clef, torn, and bo teams as a whole more, although both can work well depending on teammates. the rest of A+ is the mons i think are the most consistent offensively: shifu, pult, kart, zapdos, lele, and garchomp.
A: might be an unpopular take given its use/win rate but i still think slowbro is decent enough just because of how easily it is to flip all momentum and take advantage of nearly every defensive mon in the tier. however, being pretty easily exploited by status and not having too much offensive or defensive value on its own, being forced to use teleport like 5x more than any other of its moves, takes it out of A+ for me. it has even lost its 6-0 fat mus because of things like light screen pex blocking progression. the other mons here are just at an in-between the consistency of A+ and the potency of A-
A-: most of these are broken fishing mons. i'm not super high on gking personally but this felt like a fine place for it - while it mus pretty well into most offensive stuff it's not that easy to fit onto teams and can get annoyed by things like gastro or fs preparation of any kind in fatter mus. ttar is great for 2 reasons: it can punish ghosts, heatran, and zapdos pretty hard, while being easily one of the best breakers in the tier. i think the rest are mostly self explanatory
there's not much else i wanted to say but here are some minor thoughts on the bottom ranks:
the tier i placed below B are mons who offer something unique enough to not be strictly outclassed by any other one mon, but don't have the usage or actual proof of a niche in the metagame. it would be cool to see some more exploration with these mons. both of the tiers below are full of mons i view as much less consistent or actually outclassed by something else. i think (with the exception of trick room, which might be an oversight) all the mons in the purple bad tier are unviable and not worth using in like any scenario
I feel vindicated that Lele and Zapdos rose to A+, they've felt like A+ mons to me for a while (and Zapdos' rise should've happened earlier since its reasoning has kinda been the case all year but it's okay no hard feelings teehee) but the rise of LeleShifu archetypes is at least a stronger argument for Lele than ever before (watch a WCoP game cuz omg). My hot take is that Lele is the best FS user in the tier over any Slowtwins
On the other hand, I've been feeling a little unimpressed with Koko and am slightly surprised it didn't drop to A. It feels like the meta adapted to it (maybe just a little at least fwiw) with the resurgence of the fat grounds and balance teams that Koko finds a bit harder to make progress against. That Nature's Madness set is still pretty good against various teamstyles though and ESPECIALLY the still-ubiquitous Landorus so... I wouldn't say it's a "this should drop ASAP" as much of a "hmmm idk"
On the other hand, I've been feeling a little unimpressed with Koko and am slightly surprised it didn't drop to A. It feels like the meta adapted to it (maybe just a little at least fwiw) with the resurgence of the fat grounds and balance teams that Koko finds a bit harder to make progress against. That Nature's Madness set is still pretty good against various teamstyles though and ESPECIALLY the still-ubiquitous Landorus so... I wouldn't say it's a "this should drop ASAP" as much of a "hmmm idk"
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Even though I love shuckle, it’s straight up garbage in the current metagame. If I were to use any webs setter, it’d be ribombee. It has moon blast for a pretty decent stab, stun spore to cripple, and u-turn to make it an alright pivot with its pretty good speed tier. Shield dust also prevents all secondary effects from happening to it, which is a nice bonus for taking scale hits or whatever. It’s still not great, as webs are pretty awful right now, but it’s much more useable than shuckle is right now
theres other good ones like araquanid and galvantula its just that shuckle is slow and the other ones tend to be less passive
I would argue that Galvantula is better because it beats hazard removers such as Tornadus and Corviknight as well as being immune to para anyways and having Volt Switch.
So basically
Galvantula UR -> C-, If we have to have a web setter on the VR, idk seems kinda garbage in this meta
Shuckle C- -> UR, I love Shuckle too but I think its best we just let him be good in the 2 tiers above this one
got a link to this tier maker i cant find this exact onesharing my own sort of personal OU tier list and a few thoughts about the tier + certain mons, reflecting pretty closely how i voted on this last slate. it isn't ordered past A+ tier, and i chose to separate the bottom couple tiers of worse mons by a line of viable vs not viable rather than clear tiers.
(thanks Undorian for the template a few weeks back)
S: i think it's hard to argue that lando and weav aren't still the two best mons in the tier. consistent value in every matchup, both offensively and defensively
A+: my top 5 mons are definitely lando/weav/clef/melm/ferro, in that order. my hottest take on the entire ranking is probably that heatran is barely a top 10 mon - i would say that the majority of its value comes from its ability to offensively click whatever it wants. i firmly believe that its best defensive use is as a sort of mixed pivot thing with flame body to actually punish lando ferro melm weav zolt etc, rather than its conventional spdef flash fire wall that folds to ghosts, lele, and all the other shit it's supposed to check. spdef slam or other teched sets can still be nice as a means of keeping ghosts, cm clef, and gking somewhat at bay but it's still very prone to being worn down easily. offensive balloon is still a demon to switch around but things like rotom and other pivots picking up on speed, as well as magma being kind of unreliable, making it a bit worse than it was a few months ago. it still does have problems keeping its rocks up and can be exploited pretty easily by good pivoting around its offensive tools and by all of the waters in the tier.
the hardest thing while making this was probably deciding how to place and order all of the defensive waters within the tier (being rotom, slowbro, pex, fini, gastro, and slowking, with shifu as an aside that can work pretty well with dragons). idk if shifu is really the 6th best mon in the tier but the overwhelming mus it gets vs any offensive team without the space for a real water, and the momentum machine it is otherwise, are enough to convince me. i think rotom's better set is np rather than the volt pivoter solely for the purpose of being able to actually pressure pex, clef, torn, and bo teams as a whole more, although both can work well depending on teammates. the rest of A+ is the mons i think are the most consistent offensively: shifu, pult, kart, zapdos, lele, and garchomp.
A: might be an unpopular take given its use/win rate but i still think slowbro is decent enough just because of how easily it is to flip all momentum and take advantage of nearly every defensive mon in the tier. however, being pretty easily exploited by status and not having too much offensive or defensive value on its own, being forced to use teleport like 5x more than any other of its moves, takes it out of A+ for me. it has even lost its 6-0 fat mus because of things like light screen pex blocking progression. the other mons here are just at an in-between the consistency of A+ and the potency of A-
A-: most of these are broken fishing mons. i'm not super high on gking personally but this felt like a fine place for it - while it mus pretty well into most offensive stuff it's not that easy to fit onto teams and can get annoyed by things like gastro or fs preparation of any kind in fatter mus. ttar is great for 2 reasons: it can punish ghosts, heatran, and zapdos pretty hard, while being easily one of the best breakers in the tier. i think the rest are mostly self explanatory
there's not much else i wanted to say but here are some minor thoughts on the bottom ranks:
the tier i placed below B are mons who offer something unique enough to not be strictly outclassed by any other one mon, but don't have the usage or actual proof of a niche in the metagame. it would be cool to see some more exploration with these mons. both of the tiers below are full of mons i view as much less consistent or actually outclassed by something else. i think (with the exception of trick room, which might be an oversight) all the mons in the purple bad tier are unviable and not worth using in like any scenario
agslash23
Banned deucer.
Presenting some rises and drops :
Rises
-> S
Weavile is a staple of SS OU, being near necessary on any team that isn't Stall due to combination of speed, power, brilliant dual STABs, and resistance to Ghost. While its bulk isn't the best, it is bulky enough to take 1 Fairy attack from Clefable, Tapu Koko, turning a usually bad matchup on its head. Any other offensive alternative to Weavile means that you are settling for less, as there isn't any mon with the aforementioned offensive boons.
It has plenty of options to make an impact in every game - Boots SD is ever-reliable, but it can run an equally effective Band set with strong 4th move options like Beat Up on Physical Offense teams, or Assurance on Hazard Stack teams. Both let it beat checks like Ferrothorn, Toxaapex, and Corviknight. Other options include Low Kick to dent Steel switch-ins, Poison Jab to threaten Fairy-type switch-ins like Clefable, and Aerial Ace to surprise other checks like Buzzwole, Urshifu-R
-> B+
A very controversial take, but I'll explain. This isn't w.r.t defensive set, we all know that is mediocre and doesn't check anything that is supposed to check on paper. This set died when Kyurem was banned. The reason that it should rise is the offensive set.
Offensive SD Scizor is excellent on Hyper Offense, as its typing lets it set up on plenty of stuff like Rillaboom, Melmetal, Tapu Lele, as well as Choice locked Weavile, Kartana, Dragapult. It also has a very strong Bullet Punch that provides much-needed speed control to revenge kill HO threats like Dragapult, Tapu Koko, Weavile. It also has excellent coverage options to beat its usual checks - Sand Tomb hurts Toxapex, Heatran, Magnezone, and punishes Corviknight and Zapdos attempting to Roost; Knock-off provides general utility and lets it beat Corviknight, Tapu Lele; Superpower nails Steel-types like Melmetal; Dual Wing Beat OHKOes Buzzwole and Urshifu-R.
In Short, Scizor is an excellent option on Offensive teams that can be tailored to lure most of its checks early game, in order to clear the way for itself or another sweeper.
Drops
-> A
A shocking choice of viability, but Dragapult isn't what it used to be. In an increasingly balance-oriented meta, its power is not good enough to break past walls like Gastrodon, Clefable, while losing 1v1s versus a lot of rising stars like Melmetal, Tyranitar. It also loses to other speed control options like Zeraora, Weavile, AV Tornadus-T, as well to Scarfers like Tapu Fini, Kartana,Taou Lele, Blacephalon. The latter also provides it strong competition as a Ghost-type, and is much better vs Clefable, Gastrodon, Toxapex. Moreover, Weavile has Knocked Off its crown (pun intended) - both since its a Ghost resist, and since it is easier to fit as a versatile Speed Control option. Finally, it can run Physical sets to lure usual checks like Blissey, Tyranitar, but lack of reliable Ghost STAB makes it inconsistent.
This is not to say that Dragapult is bad - it still has one of the most spammable moves in Shadow Ball, a strong nuke in Draco Meteor, the ever reliable U-turn, and good coverage like Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Hydro Pump. It's just that it doesn't feel that strong and that fast anymore due to immense competition and preparation against it.
-> B+
Volcarona is called Match Up moth - this rings true the more this generation passes. It needs extensive team support to sweep - it needs checks like Heatran, Blissey, Gastrodon, Tapu Fini, Rotom-W, Bulky Tyranitar to be elimiated in order to actually sweep. It is also checked by Ground types like Garchomp, Landorus-T, as it needs multiple boosts to beat them, and it can't due to their power and bulk. It also suffers from serious 4MSS - no Giga Drain means that Gastrodon, Rotom-W check it, no Psychic means that Toxapex beats it, no Bug Buzz means that Tyranitar beats it, no Safeguard means that it loses to Blissey. And even after all this, it's still walled by Heatran.
Rises
-> SWeavile is a staple of SS OU, being near necessary on any team that isn't Stall due to combination of speed, power, brilliant dual STABs, and resistance to Ghost. While its bulk isn't the best, it is bulky enough to take 1 Fairy attack from Clefable, Tapu Koko, turning a usually bad matchup on its head. Any other offensive alternative to Weavile means that you are settling for less, as there isn't any mon with the aforementioned offensive boons.
It has plenty of options to make an impact in every game - Boots SD is ever-reliable, but it can run an equally effective Band set with strong 4th move options like Beat Up on Physical Offense teams, or Assurance on Hazard Stack teams. Both let it beat checks like Ferrothorn, Toxaapex, and Corviknight. Other options include Low Kick to dent Steel switch-ins, Poison Jab to threaten Fairy-type switch-ins like Clefable, and Aerial Ace to surprise other checks like Buzzwole, Urshifu-R
-> B+A very controversial take, but I'll explain. This isn't w.r.t defensive set, we all know that is mediocre and doesn't check anything that is supposed to check on paper. This set died when Kyurem was banned. The reason that it should rise is the offensive set.
Offensive SD Scizor is excellent on Hyper Offense, as its typing lets it set up on plenty of stuff like Rillaboom, Melmetal, Tapu Lele, as well as Choice locked Weavile, Kartana, Dragapult. It also has a very strong Bullet Punch that provides much-needed speed control to revenge kill HO threats like Dragapult, Tapu Koko, Weavile. It also has excellent coverage options to beat its usual checks - Sand Tomb hurts Toxapex, Heatran, Magnezone, and punishes Corviknight and Zapdos attempting to Roost; Knock-off provides general utility and lets it beat Corviknight, Tapu Lele; Superpower nails Steel-types like Melmetal; Dual Wing Beat OHKOes Buzzwole and Urshifu-R.
In Short, Scizor is an excellent option on Offensive teams that can be tailored to lure most of its checks early game, in order to clear the way for itself or another sweeper.
Drops
-> AA shocking choice of viability, but Dragapult isn't what it used to be. In an increasingly balance-oriented meta, its power is not good enough to break past walls like Gastrodon, Clefable, while losing 1v1s versus a lot of rising stars like Melmetal, Tyranitar. It also loses to other speed control options like Zeraora, Weavile, AV Tornadus-T, as well to Scarfers like Tapu Fini, Kartana,Taou Lele, Blacephalon. The latter also provides it strong competition as a Ghost-type, and is much better vs Clefable, Gastrodon, Toxapex. Moreover, Weavile has Knocked Off its crown (pun intended) - both since its a Ghost resist, and since it is easier to fit as a versatile Speed Control option. Finally, it can run Physical sets to lure usual checks like Blissey, Tyranitar, but lack of reliable Ghost STAB makes it inconsistent.
This is not to say that Dragapult is bad - it still has one of the most spammable moves in Shadow Ball, a strong nuke in Draco Meteor, the ever reliable U-turn, and good coverage like Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Hydro Pump. It's just that it doesn't feel that strong and that fast anymore due to immense competition and preparation against it.
-> B+Volcarona is called Match Up moth - this rings true the more this generation passes. It needs extensive team support to sweep - it needs checks like Heatran, Blissey, Gastrodon, Tapu Fini, Rotom-W, Bulky Tyranitar to be elimiated in order to actually sweep. It is also checked by Ground types like Garchomp, Landorus-T, as it needs multiple boosts to beat them, and it can't due to their power and bulk. It also suffers from serious 4MSS - no Giga Drain means that Gastrodon, Rotom-W check it, no Psychic means that Toxapex beats it, no Bug Buzz means that Tyranitar beats it, no Safeguard means that it loses to Blissey. And even after all this, it's still walled by Heatran.
Weavile fulfills a very unique role in the builder as an irreplaceable and select piece to the SSOU metagame. It's a terrifying endgame sweeper and breaker with a barrage of sets and set variations which can be difficult to account for or actually check in some cases, packing a Ghost-type resist, speed control, and some of the best offensive coverage in the tier. However, I don't think that translates into its suggested rank. Weavile is quite strong, but you aren't necessarily at a detriment not having it on your team just because nothing fulfills its role better-- there is no alternative for what it offers. However, that doesn't mean there aren't ways of splitting role compression in different styles of teambuilding, or offering offensive output. Additionally, the meta has adapted to its influence better and less favorable trends have for Weavile appeared recently, and those more threatening sets (Beat Up for example) are easier to pick out or exploit. I think S- is appropriate for it, with similar regards to Heatran and Melmetal.Rises
Weavile is a staple of SS OU, being near necessary on any team that isn't Stall due to combination of speed, power, brilliant dual STABs, and resistance to Ghost. While its bulk isn't the best, it is bulky enough to take 1 Fairy attack from Clefable, Tapu Koko, turning a usually bad matchup on its head. Any other offensive alternative to Weavile means that you are settling for less, as there isn't any mon with the aforementioned offensive boons.
It has plenty of options to make an impact in every game - Boots SD is ever-reliable, but it can run an equally effective Band set with strong 4th move options like Beat Up on Physical Offense teams, or Assurance on Hazard Stack teams. Both let it beat checks like Ferrothorn, Toxaapex, and Corviknight. Other options include Low Kick to dent Steel switch-ins, Poison Jab to threaten Fairy-type switch-ins like Clefable, and Aerial Ace to surprise other checks like Buzzwole, Urshifu-R
A very controversial take, but I'll explain. This isn't w.r.t defensive set, we all know that is mediocre and doesn't check anything that is supposed to check on paper. This set died when Kyurem was banned. The reason that it should rise is the offensive set.
Offensive SD Scizor is excellent on Hyper Offense, as its typing lets it set up on plenty of stuff like Rillaboom, Melmetal, Tapu Lele, as well as Choice locked Weavile, Kartana, Dragapult. It also has a very strong Bullet Punch that provides much-needed speed control to revenge kill HO threats like Dragapult, Tapu Koko, Weavile. It also has excellent coverage options to beat its usual checks - Sand Tomb hurts Toxapex, Heatran, Magnezone, and punishes Corviknight and Zapdos attempting to Roost; Knock-off provides general utility and lets it beat Corviknight, Tapu Lele; Superpower nails Steel-types like Melmetal; Dual Wing Beat OHKOes Buzzwole and Urshifu-R.
In Short, Scizor is an excellent option on Offensive teams that can be tailored to lure most of its checks early game, in order to clear the way for itself or another sweeper.
I'll refer to what I've said above, again. Getting shut down by Lele isn't a pleasant thing, neither are dual fairy cores that can exploit the lack of a STAB to remove them. Fast resists like Rotom, Zapdos, Heatran, etc. that pack methods of crippling or removing Scizor have seen an uptick in usage, and teams that use Scizor have to tailor themselves around its coverage in order for it to not be limited or dead weight in front of the right wall, which makes its progress less certain and matchup specific. Despite what I said previously, perhaps it does belong in B; but only just over the line. However, it should rise no further given its negative qualities.
I could get behind this one, although I'm conflicted. All it ever really takes is one SpD drop into Shadow ball, a mispredict into U-Turn, or improperly reading the set for Dragapult to get out of hand. In some cases it can afford to drop Jolly or Timid for Adamant or Modest, which means that it can be devastating for teams just trying to slide by it. The natural speed control it offers is rather nice and sets like DD in its most offensive or bulky variants are scary in addition to the variety of items it can run.Drops
A shocking choice of viability, but Dragapult isn't what it used to be. In an increasingly balance-oriented meta, its power is not good enough to break past walls like Gastrodon, Clefable, while losing 1v1s versus a lot of rising stars like Melmetal, Tyranitar. It also loses to other speed control options like Zeraora, Weavile, AV Tornadus-T, as well to Scarfers like Tapu Fini, Kartana, Tapu Lele, and Blacephalon. The latter also provides it strong competition as a Ghost-type, and is much better vs Clefable, Gastrodon, Toxapex. Moreover, Weavile has Knocked Off its crown (pun intended) - both since its a Ghost resist, and since it is easier to fit as a versatile Speed Control option. Finally, it can run Physical sets to lure usual checks like Blissey, Tyranitar, but lack of reliable Ghost STAB makes it inconsistent.
This is not to say that Dragapult is bad - it still has one of the most spammable moves in Shadow Ball, a strong nuke in Draco Meteor, the ever reliable U-turn, and good coverage like Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Hydro Pump. It's just that it doesn't feel that strong and that fast anymore due to immense competition and preparation against it.
I definitely agree with the points, in some ways it is similarly limited like Scizor. To add, in general we've seen a lot more uptick in almost all of its relevant checks which makes it more difficult to facilitate. If the metagame continues to shift as it is right now it is very realistic to say it will drop to B+.
Volcarona is called Match Up moth - this rings true the more this generation passes. It needs extensive team support to sweep - it needs checks like Heatran, Blissey, Gastrodon, Tapu Fini, Rotom-W, Bulky Tyranitar to be elimiated in order to actually sweep. It is also checked by Ground types like Garchomp, Landorus-T, as it needs multiple boosts to beat them, and it can't due to their power and bulk. It also suffers from serious 4MSS - no Giga Drain means that Gastrodon, Rotom-W check it, no Psychic means that Toxapex beats it, no Bug Buzz means that Tyranitar beats it, no Safeguard means that it loses to Blissey. And even after all this, it's still walled by Heatran.
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Thunder Pwoell
Banned deucer.
u know ill 6-0 u right? stop playing before I embarrass u in front of the whole community. in fact, what time u free my son? I’m free all next week come get on and show how big and bad u are playboy. fr fr show me how bad my chosen mons are
Baloor bro if that was me, I would never take that. Personally, that is downright disrespectful. This made me think back to the “Incident of 1983” where the opponent got utterly destroyed. My friend, I do hope this does not happen to you, for you have your whole life ahead of you. Good luck buddy.
So you're going by "Omari P" now nerd? Haha whats up douche bag, it's Lavos from Idaho. Remember me? Me and the guys used to give you a hard time in 1600s OU ladder. Sorry you were just an easy target lol. I can see not much has changed. Remember Bloo the girl you had a crush on? Yeah we're married now. I make over 3 trophies a year and drive a mustang GT. I guess some things never change huh loser? Nice catching up lol. Pathetic.
A+ -> A
I agree with the sentiment that Dragapult has been facing a noticable drop in potency in recent times. The meta is just way more properly equipped to handle it, especially with the rise in Gastrodon and Tyranitar in terms of checks to special sets and the general inconsistency of physical sets.
guys i feel like im in a video game right now, and i do not feel safe
I guess im defending ghosts recently.Drops
A shocking choice of viability, but Dragapult isn't what it used to be. In an increasingly balance-oriented meta, its power is not good enough to break past walls like Gastrodon, Clefable, while losing 1v1s versus a lot of rising stars like Melmetal, Tyranitar. It also loses to other speed control options like Zeraora, Weavile, AV Tornadus-T, as well to Scarfers like Tapu Fini, Kartana,Taou Lele, Blacephalon. The latter also provides it strong competition as a Ghost-type, and is much better vs Clefable, Gastrodon, Toxapex. Moreover, Weavile has Knocked Off its crown (pun intended) - both since its a Ghost resist, and since it is easier to fit as a versatile Speed Control option. Finally, it can run Physical sets to lure usual checks like Blissey, Tyranitar, but lack of reliable Ghost STAB makes it inconsistent.
This is not to say that Dragapult is bad - it still has one of the most spammable moves in Shadow Ball, a strong nuke in Draco Meteor, the ever reliable U-turn, and good coverage like Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Hydro Pump. It's just that it doesn't feel that strong and that fast anymore due to immense competition and preparation against it.
In an increasingly balance-oriented meta, dragapult's power is STILL good enough to break past gastrodon, clefable, av torn-t, toxapex and more. All it needs is a little more support and a slightly different set. Specifically, modest specs hex.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 237-280 (55.6 - 65.7%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.2%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 248 HP / 160+ SpD Toxapex: 174-205 (57.4 - 67.6%) (unsure of the exact spread ppl run these days)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 193-228 (53.3 - 62.9%)
Partners like t-wave clefable or wisp/toxic rotom-w are amazing with pult, and in an increasingly balance-oriented meta, we're seeing plenty of status spam anyway. The support that specs hex pult requires is nothing restrictive or specific, it's very easy to fit into many teams.
In any case, I find some of these arguments against it silly. It's always lost to the speed control options that you mentioned, even when it was at A+. And why is it being compared to weavile as speed control? They revenge kill totally different things. Dragapult can revenge kill things like urshifu-r and kartana, things which weavile cannot reliably handle. It's silly to act like weavile is outclassing pult in this regard. In any case, dragapult can use specs hex to blast through or just u-turn on whatever preparation people have for it, and it continues to be one of the most restrictive mons on the teambuilder in the tier. It's fine where it is.
It's not the first time I've seen this suggested but it still perplexes me. I said how I feel about Pult in the metagame discussion thread and I basically stand by the sentiment I had there: it's still one of the most restrictive forces in the tier bar none. The balance focused state of the meta doesn't stifle it or make it worse, it just sees Pult shift its moveset to adjust. It's much easier to run Modest nowadays, only giving up a match up vs Koko which is easy to patch up elsewhere. Modest makes it easier to achieve KO thresholds than timid with just a little support (hazards or status both work for this).Drops
A shocking choice of viability, but Dragapult isn't what it used to be. In an increasingly balance-oriented meta, its power is not good enough to break past walls like Gastrodon, Clefable, while losing 1v1s versus a lot of rising stars like Melmetal, Tyranitar. It also loses to other speed control options like Zeraora, Weavile, AV Tornadus-T, as well to Scarfers like Tapu Fini, Kartana,Taou Lele, Blacephalon. The latter also provides it strong competition as a Ghost-type, and is much better vs Clefable, Gastrodon, Toxapex. Moreover, Weavile has Knocked Off its crown (pun intended) - both since its a Ghost resist, and since it is easier to fit as a versatile Speed Control option. Finally, it can run Physical sets to lure usual checks like Blissey, Tyranitar, but lack of reliable Ghost STAB makes it inconsistent.
This is not to say that Dragapult is bad - it still has one of the most spammable moves in Shadow Ball, a strong nuke in Draco Meteor, the ever reliable U-turn, and good coverage like Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Hydro Pump. It's just that it doesn't feel that strong and that fast anymore due to immense competition and preparation against it.
The speed control argument is bizarre to me since the mons you listed are mons it's lost to before. That hasn't changed. And for some match ups like Melmetal or That, U-turn exists and especially for Ttar matchups, with it finally dropping junk spdef sets and opting for CB, Pult turns on it and those leave a really lasting mark while bringing in an appropriate teammate.
Pult continues to be a major force in the metagame and a serious restrictive force in building.
First ever nom, but I Wanna shed some light on a Pokemon I've been tinkering with a bit, and have grown a bit of an appreciation for.
Kommo-o C+ -> B-/B (Being VERY Generous with B, but I feel like a case could be made.)
Might get some eyebrows for this one, but, Defensive Kommo-o, while still very niche, has quite a bit of merit that some teams may appreciate, and I'd argue is a bit of a sleeper pick with how current meta trends almost seem tailor-made for it. Such as the Resurgance of Rillaboom, Offensive Heatran being as dangerous as ever, Weather teams becoming stronger and stronger, the rise of Choice Band Tyranitar, and Rotom Wash, Kommo-o's good matchup against all of them have allowed Kommo-o to go from "It's ok against Sun and nothing else." to having its unique confluence of traits truly be able to shine.
While its offensive sets are undeniably inconsistent at best (see Clangarous Soul + Throat Spray), and downright outclassed at worst (See Substitute Salac Berry + Belly Drum), Its defensive sets can function as a solid dragon type stealth rock setter, that sets itself apart from Garchomp with STAB Body Press, Taunt, Bulletproof, and a fighting type. As for what these traits allow it to do individually, allow me to explain.
STAB Body Press is very strong on Kommo-o, so much so it takes the crown of the strongest viable user of Body Press in the tier! Surpassing even Skarmory in terms of Body Press Power, which makes the move hit quite hard, letting it much more easily threaten back Pokemon it's tasked with dealing with in some cases.
Taunt allows Kommo-o to both deny Defog attempts from Corviknight, and Minimum Speed Landorus Therian once it's gotten its rocks up, and in some cases even deny the opponent of their rocks in the case of Minimum Speed Rocks Landorus Therian, or Defensive Heatran. Two common methods of laying them down. This also prevents slower, more passive Pokemon like Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Corviknight, or Skarmory, from easily Taking Advantage of it, it's also helpful for preventing defog from targets that easily force it out, like Tornadus, or Zapdos, as you can taunt on the predicted switch, temporarily stop defog, and switch to something that threatens the defogger! Finally this comes with the added bonus of allowing Kommo-o to avoid common status conditions from slower targets like Landorus, Toxapex, Gastrodon, and Buzzwole, allowing it to effectively check what it's supposed to, without fearing Status from common users of it. Giving it a surprising amount of Longevity despite its lack of recovery.
Bulletproof allows Kommo-o to effectively check Blacephalon, and Aegislash, as it can take even Choice Specs attacks (besides Overheat and Flash Cannon Respectively) from both rather comfortably, without fearing Shadow Ball, and threaten them back with Earthquake, letting it have the upside of a Shadow Ball immunity that Normal types come with, without the painful passivity Blissey comes with (or inability to even beat them in the case of Aegislash).
Finally, its fighting type compared to TankChomp, Allows it to much more safely come in on Choice Band Tyranitar, only ever fearing Ice Punch, as even a Hazard Boosted Assurance will barely even dent it.
Another notable Pokemon it helps Kommo-o duke it out with is Victini, with only a 2x Weakness to Ice, it can take just about anything the standard Victini set can throw at it without even a scratch, and KO Back with Earthquake before Victini Can even come close to KOing, very effectively forcing out a Pokemon otherwise difficult to consistently force out, with the added bonus of making it hard to pivot out to Tapu Koko, for fear of being forced to roost after an Earthquake, effectively throwing a wrench into the plans of the otherwise very powerful KokoTini core.
not only that, but Kommo-o's secondary type also allows it to more comfortably switch in against rain, as it instead Resists the Rain Boosted Water STABs Rain loves to fire off, as opposed to Garchomp's Neutrality. Only fearing a Hurricane from Zapdos.
With all that said and done, I only think it should be bumped up one or two ranks for good reason. Even with all these traits, Kommo-o is uncomfortably flawed. Its quad fairy weakness, vulnerability to Future Sight, and total passivity towards Clefable, and Tapu Lele hardly do it any favors, especially when Clefable and Future Sight are so common, and its lack of reliable recovery means even with its unique defensive profile, it can struggle to make use of it in drawn out games, meaning most teams will in fact be better off with TankChomp if they need a bulky Dragon with Stealth Rock, However, that's not to say it's entirely outclassed, or devoid of astounding partners either. Particularly I've found it quite solid on Sand teams as the stealth rock setter, as its good matchup against other weathers (besides Hail which Sand already dunks on), and ability to reliably set rocks in the face of them is greatly appreciated, as well as Sand being able to patch up most of its shortcomings with Excadrill greatly pressuring Fairy types, and Tyranitar appreciates it being something to fall back on against Rain's threats like Barraskewda and Seismitoad, while Tyranitar is able to pretty easily force out offensive Zapdos, as well as being totally immune to Future Sight, allowing it to effectively absorb them for Kommo-o. Slowbro is an interesting partner, as it is effectively able to pivot into Tapu Lele, and Urshifu for it, and appreciates Kommo-o alleviating pressure to stay healthy VS rain, and easily pivoting into Volt Switch from Rotom Wash for it. Finally Ferrothorn deserves a mention, as it can form a nasty Hazard Stacking Core with incredible defensive synergy, Ferrothorn appreciates Kommo-o being able to safely taunt common Defoggers to ensure Spikes stay up as the game goes on, and Kommo-o's ability to be a good switch in to Dangerous Fire types like Heatran, Victini, and Blacephalon while Ferrothorn can check the Psychic and Fairy types that plague Kommo-o so badly.
Overall, Kommo-o is far from perfect, but the unique benefits it brings over other bulky Dragon types give it a much more tangible niche than the VR gives it credit for, acting as a decent middle ground between TankChomp, and Utility Dragonite, with its ability to set stealth rocks, while still having a good matchup against Rain, which some teams would love to have around.
The Sheer Reach of Kommo-o's utility means it's rare you'll have a game where Kommo-o is total deadweight (within reason, obviously it might be if they're some maniac running like 8 Fairies), so I disagree with the notion of it being piled into the same tier as Matchup Dependent Pokemon like Regieleki, Kingdra, or Dracozolt. (A couple others I disagree with in C+ Too, but that's a topic for another day.)
Kommo-o C+ -> B-/B (Being VERY Generous with B, but I feel like a case could be made.)
Might get some eyebrows for this one, but, Defensive Kommo-o, while still very niche, has quite a bit of merit that some teams may appreciate, and I'd argue is a bit of a sleeper pick with how current meta trends almost seem tailor-made for it. Such as the Resurgance of Rillaboom, Offensive Heatran being as dangerous as ever, Weather teams becoming stronger and stronger, the rise of Choice Band Tyranitar, and Rotom Wash, Kommo-o's good matchup against all of them have allowed Kommo-o to go from "It's ok against Sun and nothing else." to having its unique confluence of traits truly be able to shine.
While its offensive sets are undeniably inconsistent at best (see Clangarous Soul + Throat Spray), and downright outclassed at worst (See Substitute Salac Berry + Belly Drum), Its defensive sets can function as a solid dragon type stealth rock setter, that sets itself apart from Garchomp with STAB Body Press, Taunt, Bulletproof, and a fighting type. As for what these traits allow it to do individually, allow me to explain.
STAB Body Press is very strong on Kommo-o, so much so it takes the crown of the strongest viable user of Body Press in the tier! Surpassing even Skarmory in terms of Body Press Power, which makes the move hit quite hard, letting it much more easily threaten back Pokemon it's tasked with dealing with in some cases.
VS Ferrothorn:
148+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 252 HP / 124 Def Ferrothorn: 186-222 (52.8 - 63%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 124 Def Ferrothorn: 97-115 (27.5 - 32.6%) -- 70.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS Tyranitar:
148+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 480-568 (140.7 - 166.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 252-296 (73.9 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
VS Kartana:
148+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 206-246 (79.5 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 108-127 (41.6 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
VS Blissey:
148+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 470-554 (65.8 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 246-289 (34.4 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
148+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 252 HP / 124 Def Ferrothorn: 186-222 (52.8 - 63%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 124 Def Ferrothorn: 97-115 (27.5 - 32.6%) -- 70.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS Tyranitar:
148+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 480-568 (140.7 - 166.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 252-296 (73.9 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
VS Kartana:
148+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 206-246 (79.5 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 108-127 (41.6 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
VS Blissey:
148+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 470-554 (65.8 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 246-289 (34.4 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Taunt allows Kommo-o to both deny Defog attempts from Corviknight, and Minimum Speed Landorus Therian once it's gotten its rocks up, and in some cases even deny the opponent of their rocks in the case of Minimum Speed Rocks Landorus Therian, or Defensive Heatran. Two common methods of laying them down. This also prevents slower, more passive Pokemon like Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Corviknight, or Skarmory, from easily Taking Advantage of it, it's also helpful for preventing defog from targets that easily force it out, like Tornadus, or Zapdos, as you can taunt on the predicted switch, temporarily stop defog, and switch to something that threatens the defogger! Finally this comes with the added bonus of allowing Kommo-o to avoid common status conditions from slower targets like Landorus, Toxapex, Gastrodon, and Buzzwole, allowing it to effectively check what it's supposed to, without fearing Status from common users of it. Giving it a surprising amount of Longevity despite its lack of recovery.
Bulletproof allows Kommo-o to effectively check Blacephalon, and Aegislash, as it can take even Choice Specs attacks (besides Overheat and Flash Cannon Respectively) from both rather comfortably, without fearing Shadow Ball, and threaten them back with Earthquake, letting it have the upside of a Shadow Ball immunity that Normal types come with, without the painful passivity Blissey comes with (or inability to even beat them in the case of Aegislash).
Taking hits from Blacephalon:
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Kommo-o: 114-134 (32.2 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Kommo-o: 164-193 (46.3 - 54.5%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hitting Blacephalon Back:
0 Atk Kommo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 260-306 (105.2 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Taking Hits from Aegislash:
0- Atk Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 69-82 (19.4 - 23.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 34-42 (9.6 - 11.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Hitting Aegislash Back:
0 Atk Kommo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Blade: 268-316 (102.6 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Kommo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 116-138 (44.4 - 52.8%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Kommo-o: 114-134 (32.2 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Kommo-o: 164-193 (46.3 - 54.5%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hitting Blacephalon Back:
0 Atk Kommo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 260-306 (105.2 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Taking Hits from Aegislash:
0- Atk Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 69-82 (19.4 - 23.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 34-42 (9.6 - 11.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Hitting Aegislash Back:
0 Atk Kommo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Blade: 268-316 (102.6 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Kommo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 116-138 (44.4 - 52.8%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
Finally, its fighting type compared to TankChomp, Allows it to much more safely come in on Choice Band Tyranitar, only ever fearing Ice Punch, as even a Hazard Boosted Assurance will barely even dent it.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Assurance (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 110-129 (31 - 36.4%) -- 65.8% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 91-108 (25.7 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 73-87 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Heavy Slam (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 73-87 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 91-108 (25.7 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 73-87 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Heavy Slam (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 73-87 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
Another notable Pokemon it helps Kommo-o duke it out with is Victini, with only a 2x Weakness to Ice, it can take just about anything the standard Victini set can throw at it without even a scratch, and KO Back with Earthquake before Victini Can even come close to KOing, very effectively forcing out a Pokemon otherwise difficult to consistently force out, with the added bonus of making it hard to pivot out to Tapu Koko, for fear of being forced to roost after an Earthquake, effectively throwing a wrench into the plans of the otherwise very powerful KokoTini core.
Taking Hits from Victini:
4- SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Kommo-o: 78-94 (22 - 26.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 39-46 (11 - 12.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 81-96 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hitting Victini Back:
0 Atk Kommo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 158-186 (46.3 - 54.5%) -- 53.9% chance to 2HKO
4- SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Kommo-o: 78-94 (22 - 26.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 39-46 (11 - 12.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 81-96 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hitting Victini Back:
0 Atk Kommo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 158-186 (46.3 - 54.5%) -- 53.9% chance to 2HKO
not only that, but Kommo-o's secondary type also allows it to more comfortably switch in against rain, as it instead Resists the Rain Boosted Water STABs Rain loves to fire off, as opposed to Garchomp's Neutrality. Only fearing a Hurricane from Zapdos.
252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o in Rain: 110-130 (31 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o in Rain: 170-201 (48 - 56.7%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Seismitoad Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 127-151 (35.8 - 42.6%) -- 91.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o in Rain: 170-201 (48 - 56.7%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Seismitoad Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 127-151 (35.8 - 42.6%) -- 91.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
With all that said and done, I only think it should be bumped up one or two ranks for good reason. Even with all these traits, Kommo-o is uncomfortably flawed. Its quad fairy weakness, vulnerability to Future Sight, and total passivity towards Clefable, and Tapu Lele hardly do it any favors, especially when Clefable and Future Sight are so common, and its lack of reliable recovery means even with its unique defensive profile, it can struggle to make use of it in drawn out games, meaning most teams will in fact be better off with TankChomp if they need a bulky Dragon with Stealth Rock, However, that's not to say it's entirely outclassed, or devoid of astounding partners either. Particularly I've found it quite solid on Sand teams as the stealth rock setter, as its good matchup against other weathers (besides Hail which Sand already dunks on), and ability to reliably set rocks in the face of them is greatly appreciated, as well as Sand being able to patch up most of its shortcomings with Excadrill greatly pressuring Fairy types, and Tyranitar appreciates it being something to fall back on against Rain's threats like Barraskewda and Seismitoad, while Tyranitar is able to pretty easily force out offensive Zapdos, as well as being totally immune to Future Sight, allowing it to effectively absorb them for Kommo-o. Slowbro is an interesting partner, as it is effectively able to pivot into Tapu Lele, and Urshifu for it, and appreciates Kommo-o alleviating pressure to stay healthy VS rain, and easily pivoting into Volt Switch from Rotom Wash for it. Finally Ferrothorn deserves a mention, as it can form a nasty Hazard Stacking Core with incredible defensive synergy, Ferrothorn appreciates Kommo-o being able to safely taunt common Defoggers to ensure Spikes stay up as the game goes on, and Kommo-o's ability to be a good switch in to Dangerous Fire types like Heatran, Victini, and Blacephalon while Ferrothorn can check the Psychic and Fairy types that plague Kommo-o so badly.
Overall, Kommo-o is far from perfect, but the unique benefits it brings over other bulky Dragon types give it a much more tangible niche than the VR gives it credit for, acting as a decent middle ground between TankChomp, and Utility Dragonite, with its ability to set stealth rocks, while still having a good matchup against Rain, which some teams would love to have around.
The Sheer Reach of Kommo-o's utility means it's rare you'll have a game where Kommo-o is total deadweight (within reason, obviously it might be if they're some maniac running like 8 Fairies), so I disagree with the notion of it being piled into the same tier as Matchup Dependent Pokemon like Regieleki, Kingdra, or Dracozolt. (A couple others I disagree with in C+ Too, but that's a topic for another day.)
Last edited:
Garrett
Banned deucer.
Cool. Anyways, seconding the Weavile rise to S rank. I think it's at least more reliable than both Heatran and Melmetal against more teamstyles (constantly lingering the threat of SD for fat and general speed control below Scarf territory and pinch priority for balances/offenses), and with HDB, can last longer than much of what checks Weavile. The fact that something like Urshifu-RS must lose its item to switch-in often times means it loses half its potency. I pretty much agree with the general consensus that Weavile is one of the first mons every balance needs to think about checking both in terms of defensive switch-ins (because Beat Up is hilariously good in the hands of a competent player) and speed control; I'm sort of biased towards set up mons with priority after being top tier in versatility, but Weavile truly does it all.
- Status