Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v5 (usage in post #547)

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Speaking of Magearna, I have a question and an unfortunate observation.

Question:
Is Heart Swap usable? I know Magearna lost it in its level-up movepool, but the move never got the "this move can't be used" description as far as I know, so is it actually unusable in Sword and Shield, or is it just a transfer move?

Unfortunate observation:
Original Magearna looks cool, but it should never be used, for a similar reason shiny Greninja should never be used. Using an original Magearna immediately informs your opponent that it doesn't have any transfer-exclusive moves, notably Heal Bell and Heart Swap (if it's usable).

This post doubles as a bug report for Original Magearna being able to use transfer moves and maaaaybe Heart Swap not being able to be used.
Heart Swap was cut, yes. Also, yeah, transfer moves on Magearna-Original are illegal.
 

Monky25

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Playing the new metagame with DLC pack 1 has been super fun, and I'm gonna leave a couple of thoughts about the new developing metagame.
- Holy fuck clefable is gone. That may not exactly be true, but I've noticed that clefable is much less in abundance since the DLC dropped. Instead of seeing it in 9/10 games, Im starting to see it in maybe 3 or 4 out of 10 games. I just think that the new physical toys like urshifu, azumarill, and rillaboom rising in usage are able to combat specially defensive clef, while if it decides to be physically defense it gets bopped by zam, gar, and our new god volcarona.
-Corviknight is still doing just as good as ever. Yes, magnezone does hurt it a bit but for the most part corv is still very splashable and usable. I do think it has dropped a bit, facing competion from mandibuzz and getting trapped by zone but is still very good in the metagame.
-Fuck stall. It has been rising more in usage as og stall members blissey and chansey have returned. Thank goodness we have urshifu single strike, who is a fantastic stallbreaker and physical threat in the OU metagame.
-Kyurem has fallen. Choice specs is hindered just from the existence of chansey, and mons such as corviknight and toxapex are able to run spDef sets since we have solid physically defensive mons in tangrowth and hippow, who is still very good. It seems like only yesterday there was talks about banning it, but yeah Kyurem is nowhere near broken now.
-Also, the mighty Zeraora has fallen. It used to be everywhere, being a fast wallbreaker that is able to outspeed pult. However, with returning mons such as tangrowth and amoongus arriving to wall it and new fast mons to revenge kill, Zera is struggling from 4MSS as it wants blaze kick to damage tangrowth but gets cucked by hippow without grass knot. It also wants CC for threats like bisharp and kyurem, Knock for gar, pult, and zam, and plasma fists for basic stab. I have barely seen zera throughout these last few days, as there are better physical mons like urshifu, azumarill, conk, and bisharp that all are better at being a physical wallbreaker.
-Aegislash and Pult are likely to be more physically oriented rather than specs, as chansey exists now. Pult can still use spell tag+hex while being partened with TWave Slowbro and sleep powder tangrowth.

Overall I expect the metagame to greatly change in these coming weeks. Many pre and post home mons are likely to tank in viability or be completely unviable from all the new incoming sweepers and defensive behemoths. Old threats have now become less dominant while less threatening mons will rise to combat new mons in the tier. Im very excited to see how the metagame will unfold in these coming weeks.
 
Aight, this is gonna be long but bare with me


With all the reoccurring additions including many former OU stables such as Chansey, Tangrowth, Volcarona, and the USUM queen herself, Magearna + new tutor moves, the meta will contrast pre-Isle of Armor OU.

The losers
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Alot of the new additions hurt alot of mon’s viability

- Clef is still amazing but power creep from the new additions really hurt it. Volc, Alakazam, and Magearna can use Clef as setup fodder while Urshifu, Azu, and Rilla can break past it’s meh physical defense without investment. However many new additions including Magearna appreciate Wishport.

-Magnezone’s return was obviously bad news for Corv meaning run Shed Shell or spam U-Turn til Zone is gone. It’s not as badly hindered as many others since it’s very splashable on fat teams and you can’t go wrong with Pressure Defog.

-Heat, Pult, Hydreigon, Kyurem, and Primarina got gutted by Chansey’s return. More specifically Heat not only has to mingle with the fat blob but now A-Marowak however it has a new role in checking Magearna which is nothing to scoff at, Pult has to worry about AV Mag while Pex has been running more SpD lately since Vish’s ban. Specs seems meh in this meta but Sub-DD looks very promising for Pult. Hydrei is another wallbreaker cucked by both Chansey and Magearna, and also Azumarill, however scarf varients can R-kill Zam while using Bro for momentum. The same old song with Kyurem now having more checks like Urshifu, Mienshao, and Scizor to ruin its day. Chansey invalidates Sub-CM and Specs variants, and new additions like Amoonguss and Grassy Surge Rilla severely hinder it’s viability.

-Conk has competition with Urshifu now along with more reliable checks to it like Bro, Azumarill, and Zam that hinder it’s viability slightly.

-As if Vish’s departure from OU didn’t hinder Toad enough it now has competition with Chansey as defensive rockers except one has recovery while the other has Knock. Power creep introduced very strong offensive threats that Toad couldn’t handle well like Azumarill or Urshifu. Not to mention it has more competition as a bulky water with Bro with provides momentum and Regenerator. #ToadforUU

-I hope you enjoyed 4 months of Zeraora being a top threat cause now it’s gone. Tang, Rilla and Amoonguss expose it’s 4MSS which before wasn’t a big issue due to how much Knock Off crippled Kommo-o. Isle of Armor introudced stronger threats and bulkier walls. Zeraora is still the fastest non-boosted mon in the tier which helps in checking Cinderace and Zam so it’ll still be relevant tho it won’t be the meta defining force it was pre-Isle of Armor.

-Terrakion went from having no guaranteed safe switch-ins to having two very good ones in Tang and Bro along with Rilla, Scizor, and Azumarill being great checks to it. Bisharp has more checks now like Volcarona and Urshifu making it less of a threat to offensive teams, the latter giving it competition. Obstagoon shares the same problem as Bisharp rn except now Magearna gives it the bird (or the Corviknight).

-The abundance of strong physical threats being added pressure Lax while Chansey outclasses many of the roles Snorlax once filled. Lax can still put offensive pressure on Gengar, DD Pult, and A-Marowak which is still note worthy.

-Tyranitar was doomed from the start and it’s even worse now, 90% of the mons reintroduced + Urshifu crush Ttar’s hopes and dreams. Just RIP Tyranitar, once most consistently good mon in OU.

On the other hand

The winners
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-While Specs Aegi doesn’t appreciate Chansey nor does it enjoy Urshifu’s prescience, it can take advantage of the fact that Chansey can’t touch it and run Sub-Metal Sound to cripple Regen cores. Aegislash is also a solid check to Magearna and Alakazam, not to mention Aegislash is still versatile enough to run whatever it wants.

-Keldeo appreciates being able to abuse Flip-Turn as it naturally forces switchs ins to Pex, Tang, Clef, and Slowbro and than steals momentum. Threatning Chansey and checking Volcarona with Scarf is a nice feat.

-Like Aegislash, Chandy takes advantage of teams that use Chansey as a switch in only for it to Trick it’s Eviolite away while pressuring alot of the new additions with it’s raw damage and great offensive typing. Grassy Surge support from Rilla is very nice giving it passive recovery and boosting Energy Ball for Azumarill. It’s typing also lets it check Magearna and even Volcarona.

-Cinderace has been a menace ever since Libero was released. It can check a portion of the new additions from Isle of Armor and provide momentum and hazard removal. BU can take advantage of defensive cores that don’t have Hippo while being a nice wincon.

-Screens HO got some new toys to play with. Double Dance Magearna, Volc, BU Rapid-Strike, etc which naturally benefits Grimmsnarl’s viability.

-Being the only good answer to Urshifu so far Galar-Weezing annoys a good chunk of the metagame while trolling Regen cores, Huge Power, and Chansey’s Natural Cure. It has a wide movepool of utility from WoW, to Defog, to Taunt, and to TSpikes. If Urshifu doesn’t get banned, G-Weezing might rise to OU someday.

Overall this looks like a really fun meta for me. I had alot of fun testing the billion different sets Magearna can run while testing some stuff that haven’t been relevant in OU in years like Heracross and A-Marowak. I can’t wait to see how the meta will shift in a few weeks/months.
 

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I've been playing the DLC1 meta a great deal as of lately and have tried out a whole bunch of different teams, so I'll list a lot of my thoughts here now that we have at least some indication of the current metagame:


This thing was already looking great the week before the DLC came out, but thanks to Grassy Slide this thing gets yet another incredible tool to work with, now holding the title of having arguably the strongest priority damage in the current metagame in addition to its myriad of other impeccable traits.

(Including G-Bro)


Our beloved Blue Tumor has some Regenerator buddies now, and boy do they synergize well with it. This ability is honest-to-goodness a massive problem because of just how tough these nuts are to crack nowadays.

Tangrowth is as ridiculously bulky as ever and it has almost all the great utility it had last generation. It shrugs most physical attacks off with ease and spams Knock Off or puts something to sleep, and is generally just a rotten bastard.

The OG Slowbro received a huge amount of hype, and it more than lives up to said hype by being another incredibly difficult-to-break physical wall capable of dishing out rather respectable damage in return. Teleport makes this one of the best pivots in the game, period.

Galarian Slowbro is probably one of the most unique additions we've ever had to a new metagame and it offers a huge amount of offensive and defensive utility alike. Its rather unique typing provides it with a few awkward weaknesses (Ground, Psychic, Ghost, and Dark) but some extremely powerful traits like a quadruple resistance to Fighting, Fairy and Grass resistances, the ability to break past Clefable, and a Toxic immunity/Toxic Spikes absorption. As a result, G-Bro can function in quite a few different roles. As a wallbreaker for BO/Balance it can muscle past the likes of Clefable, Hippowdon/Quagsire, Corviknight, and Toxapex with ease; as a wall and pivot it provides defensive teams with a crucial immunity to Toxic and Toxic Spikes and resistances that, ironically, allow it and Toxapex to theoretically stall out other defensive teams just by switching out endlessly as long as they're paired with hazard control to deal with Stealth Rock. I'm not sure about whether or not Shell Side Arm is correctly implemented, currently, but if the move truly targets the lower of the target's two defenses but uses Slowbro's Special Attack stat it can and will prove to be an absolute beast of a breaker.

And, of course, while Toxapex itself hasn't gotten any direct buffs it gained all these ridiculous teammates to fight alongside, which is a powerful indirect buff.

Teleport lets it turn every special attacker in the game into free momentum and prevents it from being the enormous momentum sap it once was. It's basically the pink fatass it always was except better.
+


Alolan Raichu under Electric Terrain is essentially Dracovish 2: Electric Boogaloo thanks to its disgusting new toy in Rising Voltage. With Electric Terrain up Alolan Raichu can effortlessly 2HKO most offensive threats whilst holding a Magnet, and after a Nasty Plot boost it 2HKOs everything in the tier with either Rising Voltage or its enormous coverage movepool consisting of Focus Blast, STAB Psychic/Psyshock, Grass Knot, and Surf.

A +2 Focus Blast effortlessly OHKOs the standard PhysDef Ferrothorn currently. An unboosted Grass Knot has a 50% chance to outright OHKO standard Hippowdon after Stealth Rock damage (and doesn't need ANY form of entry hazards to do so if it's running a Life Orb). A +2 Electric Terrain boosted Rising Voltage effortlessly 2HKOs Chansey and cleanly OHKOs the absolute bulkiest of Clefables. Standard Rhyperior, Quagsire, and Seismitoad get devastated by Grass Knot, too.

Alolan Raichu requires extremely specific support from something that itself isn't good, but if you can get it in safely thereafter it will more than pull its weight. Pincurchin provides some level of longevity as well as crucial entry hazard support in Spikes and Toxic Spikes to drastically pad out the number of things demolished by Raichu.

Probably the best offensive mon in the OU tier right now, but it doesn't really feel as ludicrously broken as everyone expected. Far too many people on the ladder are just running teams that get 6-0'd by the moth on team preview at the moment.

Probably the best overall mon in the OU tier right now (behind Clef?), but sometimes it just feels a little lacking in some area. Magearna gets 4MSS'd extremely hard currently because it just has way too many good options in this tier to not run any of them. This thing has niches on any possible team archetype and is a boon to HO teams, at least.

Poltergeist pushed Alolan Marowak far over the edge. What was once (back in Gen 7) something that could be defensively checked because of Shadow Bone's middling base power is now something that is nigh-impossible to wall except by the occasional Slowbro user who forgets to give it Leftovers or a Rocky Helmet when building a team thanks to Poltergeist. AloWak is one of the best offensive Stealth Rockers in the tier, in my opinion, and now has a proper niche outside of Trick Room.

God, I wish Dragapult got this move.


Broken, broken, broken, broken, broken. This thing had absolutely no business getting Nasty Plot. If you aren't running something extraordinarily fast that can threaten an OHKO on this thing or an Assault Vest Magearna you're at best losing a mon or two to Alakazam and at worst watching as it absolutely dismantles your entire team after just one turn of setup.

A Nasty Plot+3 Attacks set has expansive coverage but limited longevity, while the more unorthodox 2 Attacks+Recover Nasty Plot set utterly shreds through defensive teams, particularly if one opts to run Psyshock. At +2 it obliterates Chansey with Focus Blast or Psyshock alike, effortlessly 2HKOing it with a Life Orb and still confidently breaking past it without a boosting item. SpDef Clefable gets OHKOed by Psyshock 25% of the time and can't even threaten Zam with the 2HKO in return. Neither Chansey nor Clefable can 2HKO Alakazam and still maintain any level of defensive integrity which makes Recover an option genuinely worth considering. This is probably the best wallbreaker in the OU tier currently, and by a healthy margin at that.

There are some genuine reasons to run this over Corviknight; entry hazards and a better Defense stat are still pretty important even though they aren't exactly as amazing as Corviknight's laundry list of good qualities. It appreciates Magnezone about as well as it always did; that is to say, it doesn't. Then again, neither does Corviknight.

(Urshifu Single-Strike Model Goes Here) (Urshifu Rapid-Strike Model Goes Here)

They're great! Single-Strike is another fantastic wallbreaker with an excellent offensive typing and well-distributed stats to go alongside that great typing, while Rapid-Strike is a bit worse offensively, a bit better defensively, but is probably the overall better Urshifu for Hyper Offense teams since it doesn't get bricked by a random Focus Sash here and there. I think Single-Strike is markedly better across the board, but Rapid-Strike has some genuine uses over its Dark counterpart on different team archetypes. Both are welcome additions to this tier as breakers, revenge killers, or even semi-tanky setup sweepers.
 

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-Cinderace has been a menace ever since Libero was released. It can check a portion of the new additions from Isle of Armor and provide momentum and hazard removal. BU can take advantage of defensive cores that don’t have Hippo while being a nice wincon.
Cinderace also gained an amazing new partner with Urshifu-Single Strike.

Banded Urshifu deals with so many of Cinderace's potential checks. CB Wicked Blow 2HKOs Pex (and hits through Bunker!), 2HKOs Hippo, OHKOs Slowbro and 2HKOs Rhyperior (Close Combat OHKOs Rhyperior but it's crazy that Wicked Blow does so much too!). Cinderace is also a solid Fairy check, which are really the only things that can deal with Urshifu. Since Cinderace doesn't need to run HJK or Zen Headbutt in this partnership, it's now free to stick with Sucker Punch and possibly Court Change or Bulk Up. Both also get U-Turn and so pivoting between them is so easy.
 
What makes these 3, in particular, get screwed over from the DLC?

Speaking of, what other pokemon outside of the ones already mentioned ended up being harmed with the DLC's arrival and what others ended up benefitting from the DLC?
To rephrase what I said, Terrakion having more consistent checks/counters in the meta hinders it’s ability as a wallbreaker along with the addition to Urshifu giving it rough competition. Bisharp and Obstagoon face competition with Urshifu which has a better speed tier and raw power than Bisharp while not having to be worn down throughout the game like Obstagoon while having similar dmg output. Magearna also adds a new defensive wall that Goon has trouble breaking past.

As for extra thoughts on what benefits or is hindered by DLC...

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OU was granted new tools to check Cloyster such as RS Urshifu, Magearna, and Slowbro, the latter of which doesn’t mind flinch hax too much.

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Rain received some cool new toys to mess around with. Flip Turn from Barra and Kingdra add a new layer to the archetype being able to pivot around common answers to rain like Pex, and Ferrothorn. Kingdra this gen received much stronger coverage (Hurricane) for Tang and Amoonguss.

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Many of the new physical threats introduced in DLC already hit it hard (Scizor, Urshifu, A-Wak) and new threats like Magearna, and Volcarona) can use it for setup bait. Knock Off is common rn and Lugg becomes much more of a liability once it loses its HDB.

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Not that it was good before but it’s worth noting that Scizor and Skarmory came back to ruin it’s already bad time in OU. Azumarill and Wak give it tough competition with one of them even being a check to Pult and Hydrei.

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Mantine imo is benefits greatly by the changes in OU. Not only is it a nice defogger but it is the best counter to Volcarona we have, can be a valuable check to Cinderace and non-Tbolt Mage, and is a great safety net vs rain due to its immunity to Flip Turn and good overall bulk. It has nice synergy with some of the new mons including Wak who it has near perfect synergy with. Mantine covers Wak’s ground, and water weakness while removing hazards, Wak covers Mantine’s electric weakness. This core can also be paired with AV Magearna for a rock and dark resist or Ferrothorn to provide hazards, and completes the FWG core while being protected from its fire and fighting weakness by Mantine and A-Wak.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1135793305
 

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Been messing around with Urshifu. Mon is really good, but I want to give highlights to Rapid Strike for having a couple nice advantages that Single Strike lacks:

1. While Rapid Strike does get walled out easily by other common walls, Rapid Strike can check certain other mons Single Strike stuggles. One of them is Cinderace, whose a good revenge killer check to Single Strike due to better speed and access to High Jump Kick to take out Urshifu. Rapid Strike, however, resists fire stab, resists bug, and still resists dark while taking neutral damage from fighting, and since Rapid Strike learns Aqua Jet, he can revenge kill Cinderace regardless if they use sucker punch to change their type, where with single strike, their own sucker punch won't take out cinderace. Drawback is that it can struggle against Zen Headbutt. It can check Volcarona really well since you resist its stabs and can possibly revenge kill it with Aqua Jet. Be on the lookout for Giga Drain though. There are other mons I will mention Rapid Strike can handle in the other parts, plus there might be others I can't think of that Rapid Strike does better against.

2. Surging Strike being able to hit 3 times and guaranteed crit gives Urshifu a really nice niche of being able to break Focus Sash and Substitute. Same case applied to Mimikyu. You outspeed Mimikyu by one point and if you make the right read, you can just use surging strike to break Disguise, and still deal massive damage. Plus, Mimikyu doesn't learn any move as far as I know that boosts its speed (maybe agility, but it's not that great or common on Mimikyu, if it even learned it). Single Strike REALLY struggles against sub sets, and against Mimikyu unless the disguise is already broken, but considering that mimikyu is seeing less play, that remains to be seen. Still, being able to effectively break sashs and substitutes means you can't just safely set them up without the risk of losing more HP or potentially losing your mon.

3. Rapid Strike is a amazing addition to rain teams as a offensive wall breaker. pairs up well with Kingdra as a offensive rain core for insane damage output, though both don't cover each others weaknesses besides the grass and electric weakness that Rapid Strike has. It does have stiff competition with Barraskewda and Azumarill for the role, but the differences are that Azumarill, despite having more damage output with Huge Power and more resistances, is very slow and struggles against certain steel types like Ferrathorn. Rapid Strike being water/fighting gives him a steel resistance and being faster with also access to Aqua Jet and Close Combat makes him a great partner in Rain with Azumarill to take out most steel types that wall out azumarill. For Tangrowth, Urshifu can just U-Turn out for big damage while keeping switch momentum or run Poison Jab to deal good damage while having a chance to poison it in return, where Azumarill gets hard walled and is forced to hard switch. Barraskewda is the only other one that might give Urshifu competition, since it's faster with swift swim, and has slightly better type coverage, but since Rapid Strikes typing is better defensively with better bulk, it can take a hit better than Barraskewda and does do more damage in general thanks to Surging Strikes with or without Rain. I'm not good at pokemon damage calcs, but from playing and using the calculator the best I can without Urshifu being in yet, a Surging Strike against a Magearna in the rain has I believe a 90 to 100% chance in the rain to OHKO a full HP Magearna. I feel this is the case since one hit in the rain did 41% at max, and the other did 36% at least. without Rain, it's a guaranteed 2HKO. Urshifu will have competition in rain, but I do think he's now one of the best wall breakers in rain.


I still think Single Strike is better in general in terms of mon coverage, wall breaking potential, and not getting walled as easily. However, Rapid Strike still has a good niche role as a rain wall breaker, covers certain mons better (though Ferrathorn doesn't count since both versions can handle it fine), breaks sashs and substitutes, and better defensive typing.
 
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So, don't know if this is good or not, but I think Wigglytuff can find some niche usage. Walls Dragapult completely outside of Steel Wing and can use it in order to pass off gargantuan 140 Base HP Wishes to teammates. Isn't weak to coverage like Fire Blast or Flamethrower like Magearna. Can also take on Hydreigon and threaten to knock it out. Not as spongey as Chansey, but also not as passive. Can also run Flamethrower or Fire Blast to hit Steel types like Ferrothorn.
 
:ss/heracross:
Bulky Heracross (click for paste) is a surprisingly decent Urshifu check that isn't Galarian Weezing. It's never 2HKOed after rocks by anything even Adamant banded Urshifu carries. It always OHKOes Urshifu back after a single spike, which notably can be set by Heracross itself. It's also pretty cool in this meta because a number of the prominent new bulky threats are bug-weak. Even with no investment, Megahorn always 2HKOes Slowbro, and 2HKOes Tangrowth after Rocks or a spike. Heracross also fits Knock onto this set, which is generically great for punishing switch-ins. It's safe to say that it's basically never dead weight.

Heracross's defensive typing is pretty useful in checking a number of other threats such as Rillaboom, Mienshao, Tyranitar, Krookodile, and unboosted Terrakion and to a certain extent things like Excadrill and Bisharp. It can also knock Marowak and eat a Flare Blitz in a pinch. It also sort of doesn't care about status because Guts.

Edit: Miltank is heat
 
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Something I think is underrated with Poltergeist is the fact that it tells you their item. Gives the move pretty significant utility on top of the major damage as well. Obviously it's early days, but assuming Marowak becomes fairly common, I wonder if people start running no item Slowbro or things like that
 

Gomi

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-Terrakion went from having no guaranteed safe switch-ins to having two very good ones in Tang and Bro along with Rilla, Scizor, and Azumarill being great checks to it. Bisharp has more checks now like Volcarona and Urshifu making it less of a threat to offensive teams, the latter giving it competition.
It's worth noting that Terrak getting Megahorn makes even max defense Tang, Bro, and Rillaboom risky switchins most of the time
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 240-284 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 264-312 (67.1 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 426-502 (124.9 - 147.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Scizor and Azu also get absolutely tanked by close combat or stone edge
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 292-345 (85.1 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 294-346 (72.7 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Megahorn kinda saved this mon lmao, though I will say SD sets now having to choose between megahorn or eq is a little painful, albeit very managable if you build around it properly.
 
It's worth noting that Terrak getting Megahorn makes even max defense Tang, Bro, and Rillaboom risky switchins most of the time
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 240-284 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 264-312 (67.1 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 426-502 (124.9 - 147.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Scizor and Azu also get absolutely tanked by close combat or stone edge
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 292-345 (85.1 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 294-346 (72.7 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Megahorn kinda saved this mon lmao, though I will say SD sets now having to choose between megahorn or eq is a little painful, albeit very managable if you build around it properly.
Scizor and Azumarill are checks, not counters. BP and Aqua Jet make quick work on Terra. Also I completely forgot Terra got Megahorn this gen lmao.
 
What pre-dlc mons are expected to get hit the hardest?
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If SS was the nail in the coffin for Ttar's viability, the DLC feels like rocks being piled on top of said coffin. Too slow to RK things with scarf, Banded sets are potentially walled by new walls and offesnse shits all over it. It's probably going to be too strong for UU too, so unless it gets some new targets or pursuit new tools it's looking to be a wrap for any consistent viability in OU :'(

What do you believe will be overhyped and what will die down after being given the "new toy" treatment?
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I don't know how to feel about G-Bro; while it can tear through Clef/Pex cores nicely the lack of bulk and defensive synergy is gonna hurt in the long run. Plus it's still slow as balls so it can be easily forced out by revenge killers. Nonetheless still excited to see how people use it.

(this is my first post so I'm sorry if I sound dumb x~x)
 

Monky25

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What makes these 3, in particular, get screwed over from the DLC?

Speaking of, what other pokemon outside of the ones already mentioned ended up being harmed with the DLC's arrival and what others ended up benefitting from the DLC?
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- Gengar is a mon that hasn't been talked about that much. I do believe it's still really good and offers an alternate choice from NP Zam, a really good mon. I've had success with NP+ 3 attacks, being shadow ball, sludge wave, and dazzling gleam. Shadow ball hits slowbro and is a solid move to hit hippo and weakened excadrill, sludge wave hits tangrowth, azumarill, clefable, togekiss, prim, and rillaboom, while dazzling gleam hits mandibuzz, pult, kommo-o, and hydriegon. Yes, it's blocked by chansey, ferrothorn, and pex, but the abundance of fighting type teammates that can patch up it's weaknesses make up for it. You can also forego dazzling gleam for focus blast to nail chansey (which you set up on) and ferrothorn. Gengar definetely has a place in the new metagame, mostly to shit on tangrowth and slowbro.
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- Also looking at the old OU VR (which is pretty outdated) I'd say that all these mons here are pretty much unviable in the current metagame.
-Sirfetch'd has first imprssion, but other than that it's outclassed by both Urshifu, conkeldurr, and the new mineshao as a physical fighting type. Also, Lucha outclasses it and has much more effectiveness with cores involving it and rillaboom.
-Sigilyph is just outclasses by Alakazam as a magic guard life orb user. In addition, post home meta hasn't been kind to hit, with zeraora being everywhere and pult cucking it. It also suffers from 4MSS as it can't hit everything. In short just use Alakazam lol.
-Ludicolo is just outclassed as a rain abuser, mons like seismatoad, barraskweda, kingdra, and azumarill all do it's job better and can hold their own if rain is over (at least the latter 2). Just use kingdra as a special abuser, they both hit the same things and water-dragon is a better typing.
-Avalugg really wasn't doing it post home, as new attackers could easily overwhelm it and increased knock off distribution did it no favors. Ice is just a bad typing and plenty of the tiers fire, fighting, and steel types can destroy it with easy (Also Volcarona uses it as setup fodder so it's niche is over).
-Celebi wasn't doing too good either. Grass-psychic is one of the worst types in the game, and both increased knock off distribution and strong mons like pult, cinderace, volcarona, and bisharp beat it. It only really checks conk and urshifu rapid strike, but urshifu can outspeed with u-turn as celebi would rather be bulky than fast.
-Xatu is also another mon that has pretty much lost all it's viability in OU. Psychic-flying is a shit typing, hatterene is a better magic bounce user, and teleport really isn't that unique considering chansey, slowbro, and clef all carry it and are more useful.

Finally F in the chat for our boy Ttar, getting no new tools while also getting screwed by more and more mons returning. Like the post above states, it really sucks considering Ttar will likely get sent to the shadow realm known as UUBL.
 
I ser people talking about :marowak alola: and for a good reason...
Poltergeist is an stupid ass move (no the levels of Fishious Rend but close)
And bc of the typing he check :Volcarona:, :Magearna:, :Clefable:, :Corviknight:.
About his ability: Rock Head is better for more offensive variant when Lighting Rod give Alowak the posibilty to check :rotom heat:, :magnezone: and :Magearna: cant even voltswitch on you.
The moveset is pretty standard:
-Poltergeist
-Flare Blist
-EQ (pex mostly)
-Stealth Rock / WoW (win 1v1 against Libero Ace) / Sword Dance

Some nice partner are:
Defog :Mandibuzz: and WishPort :Clefable:
Drawback are weak to hazzard bc Thick Clube > HDB and no recovery. Mandi and Clef cover this weakness realy well
 
+


Aww yeah. I loved the core of Lightning Rod Marowak-A + Celesteela back in Gen 7, and Corviknight is almost a strict upgrade thanks to Defog and U-Turn (albeit without the ability to pass Leech Seed recovery - but hey, that's what Grassy Terrain support with Bonemerang over EQ is for). Losing Rock Head is unfortunate, but it honestly isn't that big of a deal in the WishPass generation, especially in exchange for blocking Volt Switch and shitting down Magnezone's, non-Trick Rotom-H's, non-Trick Magearna's and non-Knock Off Zeraora's throats.

Just, y'know, watch out for Trick and Knock Off.
 
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Leo

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Something I think is underrated with Poltergeist is the fact that it tells you their item. Gives the move pretty significant utility on top of the major damage as well. Obviously it's early days, but assuming Marowak becomes fairly common, I wonder if people start running no item Slowbro or things like that
Kasib Berry Slowbro would probably prove more useful at that, as it's still able to switch into Marowak when healthy enough and wall it after taking the first hit while retaining utility against the likes of Dragapult and Aegislash, allowing it to get a TWave off on them or whatever it may have
 
:haxorus: Looking at UUBL is interesting, because a lot of these guys are viable in OU to a degree, unlike previous generations. Haxorus is the banlist's newest addition, and perhaps the most overlooked. Its understandable; Haxorus hates Clefable, Clefable is on every team. But Haxorus is more than just Click Outrage 2: Dracovish's Ugly Cousin. Hax is perhaps the scariest thing around when Clef takes a holiday. But not Band or Scarf. I'm talking Taunt+SD.

To clarify just how strong a +2 Haxorus is:
Physically defensive Hippowdon:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 359-422 (85.4 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Physically defensive Pex:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 333-393 (109.5 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Physically defensive Dabuz:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 387-458 (91.2 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Physically defensive Tangrowth (probably less viable than AV Tang, but figured I'd put the calc in regardless)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Tangrowth: 367-433 (90.8 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

This is all Jolly. Adamant grants a much higher KO rate for Hippo and Tang as well as guaranteeing the win on Dabuz. But the fact that there's still a chance without it proves just how powerful Hax can get.

You're probably wondering, "Okay, Haxorus can kill everything, but how does it not get killed itself? What does it even come in on? Surely Ferro beats this, surely Corv sits on this." Well, Corv and Ferro don't mind a +2 Outrage or Earthquake. What they do mind, however, is being unable to do much back, especially after Hax hits them with the classic Show Me Your Moves!. Suddenly defensive Pokemon are stuck in a spot where they either 1: switch, or 2: die after getting as much chip on Hax as possible. And in both of these situations Hax gets more boosts. A +6 Haxorus is a fantastic wincon, which is also why Jolly is preferred; after a setup like this Adamant is simply overkill. Haxorus is also immediately threatening without a boost as well. I don't need to remind people that it has 147 attack, the absolute highest in the tier currently, as well as STAB Outrage. This alone can scare things out (usually to Taunt fodder!) to let Hax do its thing.

Hax still has issues. Of course, Hax really hates Clef. If it comes in on Outrage before a boost it's basically G and G, Taunt doesn't do anything but mildly inconvenience it for a turn as it cleanly OHKOs it with Moonblast. Hax is completely reliant on EQ and Outrage, and anything that doesn't mind that can usually dispatch it if it's unboosted. The real issue is that Haxorus doesn't like switching in on its own. At all. Knock Off can spoil your fun and no one likes Scald burns. Especially with Hippo around. Thankfully Haxorus can synergize very well with its nemesis Clefable to give it sustainability and a free switch with WishPort. Haxorus also loves :ribombee: Ribombee, a super underrated pick that can get Sticky Webs up reliably, further limiting which Pokemon can chip it out without priority. Sticky Webs also enables other extremely dangerous Pokemon that can cover holes Haxorus cannot.

I really wanna see Haxorus thrive in this meta. Especially with so many other Dragons starting to invest into physical sets to combat new additions to the tier, Haxorus can show them the right way to do it!
 
Alright, after a day of sporadic building I have finished the three teams that correspond with the cores mentioned in this post. I wanted to get the new metagame feel when making these teams, so I did put a little stipulation on myself. I could take as much time building as I want, but I can only play and make changes to the teams through 2 test games each. I didn't save any replays as it was just some ladder games, but the teams managed to go 6-0 which helped put me at ease not randomly getting 6-0'd after the second game leaving me spinning. Now that my added little challenge is out of the way, I want to take a quick second to talk about the format of the post. Click on the sprites for an import, and each team will have 2 paragraphs. The first paragraph will be a description of the team, and the second will be a short blurb about what I learned about the metagame through building/testing the team.


This was the first team I built for this new DLC OU, and while it's not perfect I was more or less happy with how it turned out. Pressuring the team with Nasty Plot Alakazam was the central focus when I started out building this team. AV Magearna is there to help check some of the more threatening mons to Alakazam such as Dragapult and bulky Dark-types like Mandibuzz, while also providing momentum with Volt Switch. Next I decided to add Urshifu partly because of new toy syndrome, and partly because it's a powerful wall breaker that helps threaten the Dark, Steel, and Ghost types that give Zam trouble, and it also really helps seal the deal vs Chansey which is nice. The next addition to the team was Tangrowth who provides the team with a water resist, a great help vs Zeraora, and some additional help vs all the Shifus running around. I want to preference that Tang is by no means an answer to the Dark-type Urshifu, but Helmet chip can be very nice. Tangrowth also provides me with a ground resist which just feels nice to have, even though the ground types in OU are far from dominant. Also Rock Slide on Tang was to help lure Volcarona, I built this team the first full day the meta was out and wanted to be over-prepared for the moth. Hippowdon was chosen as it helps set rocks and gives me some aid vs Rotom-H. The team pressures it really well offensively, just having something that can actually stop Volt Switch is really nice. Finally I added Azumarill who might not be the perfect 6th for the team, but gets the job done for the most part by helping with issues like Volcarona + Rotom-H, giving speed control in Aqua Jet, and helps break through fat which is a great change of pace.

This team was liberating and eye opening to build. It was the first time in a long time I felt comfortable building an bulky offensive team in OU that didn't have a Clefable. The fact that the tier has received so many powerful Pokemon has me believing that the tier can be worked through by force again without resorting to Hyper Offense which is great. The team also was the first notice at a major issue I was going to have going forward: hazards and removal. I personally have a dislike for Rocks and Removal in terms of fitting them right now, and am excited to see how others are handling this issue. Overall though this team is only alright and has its share of weaknesses, but I'm happy with it for a first attempt.


Alright this core initially had a Slowbro, but as I was building I realized fitting Slowbro + Tangrowth on teams is actually pretty difficult. Either way the team still functions around the same guiding principal of Hex Pult + Paralysis spam. Double Powder Tang was really cool to try out, and does a really good job of spreading status, as it gets a fair shot at statusing 2 mons in 2 turns if you hit your moves and your opponent switches out their sleeping mon. It also does a great job answering Zeraora, which is the only Pokemon in the tier that naturally outpaces Dragapult. I'm not set on the EVs for Tangrowth in general, so I just ran max physdef, with enough bulk to outpace Hippo. Dragapult takes advantage, and is running Twave of its own. A pair of Paralysis spreaders also help mons like Urshifu who don't have the most spectacular speed stat function at a higher level. Also Alolan-Marowak might get some surprise KOs thanks to the speed control. This Urshifu is the most unsure I am on a set for the entire team, I wanted to use Bulk Up Rapid Strike Urshifu and I am happy with its role on the team, I just don't know what fourth coverage option is best. Be it Thunder Punch, Zen Headbutt, or even Aqua Jet. It's something I'd want to experiment with more, but is good enough for now. The next mon is one of my favorites in scarf Magearna, which provides the team with a Steel-type and a Fairy-type, and some surprise speed control as a lot of people don't expect this set and it usually does really well for me. Next was Mandibuzz who sure'd up my match up vs Psychic types with Choice Scarf Mageanra, gave me Defog, helped answer Alowak who was growing in popularity about this time, and formed a VoltTurn core with Magearna. The final addition was a struggle, until I found my perfect 6th. Alowak gives me Rocks, a Rotom-H check, extra help vs Volcarona, an amazing breaker, and a feeling of security against VoltTurn without a Ground-type. This was my favorite team of the three, and if you're going to try one out I suggest it be this one. (Tflame does eat it alive though, but if you gotta pick something to lose to I'll let it be that)

This team was were I really stated to see the issues with finding a good Stealth Rock user and Defogger, but it ended up working out. I also really saw how well Alowak does with a new strong stab move, especially when the defensive utility this thing provides is appreciated in the metagame. This was also an interesting team to build when it came down to prepping for Volcarona, since it definitely has the tools to handle Volcarona but there is no guarantee. Similar to Single Strike Urshifu who can be pivoted around, but any team is in danger of losing to a well played Urshifu, especially if it's banded. At this point I also started to notice a trend in finding Phys Def Tang really useful, and that Magearna wasn't going anywhere and is extremely versatile. One of my test games was also againt Trick Room and leading off with Alowak made it very clear that not running P2 would lead to Trick Room never getting up vs Alowak as basically all the setters fear it.


This team took me the longest to build, and was torture making. I would like to thank TPP and Curiosity for putting up with my complaining about building and giving me some ideas/feedback on team. First we have Shift Gear Magearna making use of a newly acquired move in Stored Power. Combined with Draining Kiss the set manages to keep itself healthy and do well vs anything that isn't a fat Steel. The issue with fat steels, and Chansey, is helped by Urshifu. I initially wanted to run a Banded Single Strike on this team, but struggles against Volcarona on paper lead to me making the switch for a nice Banded Jet. Next I went with Defog Rotom-H. Rotom-H gives me Defog, which was a struggle to fit on this team, provides Volt Switch to help keep up momentum, and does a great job of helping vs those Bulky Steels that hinder this Magearna set. It is also a decent pivot vs itself, which the team appreciates. Slowbro was added next as it pairs really well with Rotom-H defensively, keeps up momentum with Teleport, and provides Twave which is nice for this team. I initially wanted to follow the item-less trend to take on Alowak, but as Leo pointed out above Kasib helps out more overall, letting me eat a hit and get a para vs something like Dragapult. Hippo was added to the team to provide Rocks and help vs Single Strike Urshifu. Ferrothorn was the final addition as it helps patch up the team vs Rain and Azumaill, gives the team Knock Off which is needed, provides Spikes for the team, and gives the team a second Twave user that helps mitigate the lack of solid speed control.

This team made me realize how strong SG Magearna is, as it takes a team that is definitely far from perfect and turns it into a winner. After this team I also had a realization that I used a Magearna on every team, and a different set on every team. A true testament to the versatility this mon provides. I also used a Urshifu on every team, but I chalk some of that up to new toy syndrome. Also the Dark one is definitely better, Rapid Strike is definitely more useful on certain teams, but overall I give the edge to Dark. I also have come to accept that the Yellow Color has a true shot at being relevant on teams and am excited to spam Twave going forward instead of getting a fast scarfer.


That's all I've got. I'll probably make another post in the future with a few more polished teams, but for now I wanted to get these teams posted while they were still fresh (only 2 games played a piece) before I started to tinker with them. I think the new DLC meta is a ton of fun, and am excited to explore it more. I am also proud of myself for building 3 teams that I feel are decent without a Clefable, as I haven't been able to go that long without adding one to a team in months when building OU.
 
What attacks does Cinderace typically use? Is pyroball still common, now that HJK is STAB?
Cinderace has plenty of options. On a pivot set with HDB you will almost always see U-Turn along with Pyro Ball/ HJK/ Zen Heabdutt/ Sucker Punch/ Iron Head/ Court Change. On a bulk up set, U-Turn is incredibly rare, with Zen Headbutt, High Jump Kick and Pyro Ball usually preferred, although possibilities are far from finite, with sets such as Taunt + Bulk Up occasionally popping up here or there. A much more detailed guide to a lot of the sets Cinderace can run can be found here. This is pre-DLC but I feel that this is still a useful resource.

Also, not to mini mod but I'd recommend keeping stuff like this in the simple questions and answers thread.

Just so this isn't a useless post, I thought I would share some opinions on some of the old pokémon most affected by the new pokemon from the DLC
heat.png
Heat isn't necessarily positively or negatively affected by the changes. On the one hand, it's NP set has been made much worse by the popularity of Alowak (Whether he remains popular remains to be seen, however), and it's also not helped by the reduced prevalence of Clef and Corv, giving it less mons to set up on. It also has to compete with Alakazam as a wall breaker, and with Volcarona as an offensive fire type.
Heavy Duty Boots defog sets, on the other hand have improved imo. This is because of their fantastic ability to check Magearna and Volc, while also being able to defog in a meta where it is much harder to fit defog onto a team with the advent of Magnezone
clefable.png
Clefable is still a fantastic mon in the current meta, but it has taken numerous hits to it's viability. The main one being that the two biggest offensive threats in the tier can happily set-up on it and it can do fuck all to stop them. It also suffers from a general inability to check the best special attackers in the tier, with every single one of them being able to 2HKO her with just one turn of set-up. She has also fallen off thanks to the prevalence of regenerator cores, meaning that her help with wish passing on balance teams is no longer appreciated as much as it once was. It is also a victim of competition as a teleporter, with Slowbro being slower and having an easier time incorporating status moves into its movepool.
zeraora.gif
Zeraora went from being the among the most devastating wallbreakers in the tier to being A- at the very best because of one mon: Tangrowth. The most Zeraora can do against Tangrowth it volt-switch out, or knock it off. No longer does it possess any degree of versatility, either, with CM sets being easily walled by Amoongus and Bulk Up sets being phased by the rising Hippowdon. It also detests the new rain and trick room teams, as it can outspeed very little on either of these archetypes and can be pivoted into by the likes of Porygon-2 and Kingdra.
cinderace.gif
I genuinely hate this ugly little bastard, but my god is he good. None of the new mons introduced help in checking him and the drop off of Zeraora means that it no longer has to worry about being outspeed and RK'd by one mon. It's also freer to run an adamant nature, as with a jolly it still can't outspeed Zam but with adamant the only new mon that could formerly speed creep it is the rare Starmie, but do correct me if I'm wrong on that. Additionally, the Kommo-o falling off a bit means it is now in a better permission to run Sucker Punch for Zam, Starmie, and Gengar, and things seem like they're on the up once again for this despicable rabbit.
 
With the release of Urshifu Single Strike, I think things for Fairy and Fighting types look more promising as these Pokemon will be the preferable choice when checking or countering Urshifu.
(Also for Calculations, I’ll be using Terrakion with 130 Atk and Dark typing. Just incase I miss renaming a calculation)

Fairies:
:Weezing-Galar:
In terms of countering Urshifu, Weezing-G is probably the best choice of countering Urshifu-SS. Resisting its STABs, being neutral to Poison Jab, having Neutralizing Gas (just as an option since levitate is preferable), having Will-o-wisp, and abusing Urshifu’s high HP with Pain Split.

The only thing Weezing-Galar will have to worry about switching in is a Banded Urshifu with Iron Head.
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 168-198 (50.2 - 59.2%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
This can be alleviated by using Neutralizing Gas and Protect.

:Magearna:
Easily one of the best returning Pokemon. It was top tier last Gen and with so much power creep gone, it’ll easily be top tier here with its amazing defensive typing, stats, and movepool.
Unfortunately for Magearna, this Steel/Fairy typing hinders it against Urshifu-SS.
While Magearna is still certainly a check, a banded Close Combat to its face is not something it appreciates.
Magearna is still a good answer for Urshifu and Urshifu doesn’t like switching into Magearna either, thanks to its x4 Fairy weakness and how poor its special bulk is.
(And in general, keeping Urshifu from switching in is great counterplay, which is relatively easy with its pretty poor bulk and mediocre speed. Makes me wonder what Hoopa-U would look like here).
If you get Urshifu locked into Wicked Blow, you can set up on its face with Shift Gear.
I would also recommend putting 24 EVs info Magearna’s physical bulk too. This prevents;
-Banded Jolly Urshifu’s Wicked Blow from 2HKOing Magearna.
-Banded Jolly Terrakion’s Close Combat from OHKOing Magearna too.
Letting you more easily set up on then.
And you can run either 232 Speed (which ties Scarf Jolly Jirachi after +2) or 232 Atk.
Sadly, no Body Press Magearna, which would be excellent as it resists Wicked Blow and Iron Defense would help against Close Combat.
Also, it should be noted that Magearna has a slow Volt Switch that lets it pivot out of Urshifu and lets you bring in something like Alakazam safely, which can then proceed to wreck the opposing team.

:Clefable:
Clefable is the embodiment of the Fairy typing for competitive Pokemon.
Clefable is extremely customizable.
Again, Clefable isn’t a perfect switch in to Urshifu (I mean that is no surprise when it hits about as hard as Terrakion and has Anti-Fairy coverage).
Clefable is still a good check to Urshifu-SS however.
Calm Mind I have been seeing raises in usage, and this is probably due in part by Urshifu.
Being a good special attacker, it can 100% freely switch into Urshifu’s STABs without fear of Hazards, and then immediately blast it with a LO boost Moonblast or blast an oncoming Steel type with Flamethrower, which still does a lot of damage to Urshifu.

:Comfey:
Yeah, Comfey.
You may be surprised to hear that Comfey is able to switch-in even to Poison Jab, threaten out Urshifu, and could do this multiple times.
This is due to Comfey’s Triage and its healing based movepool.
Comfey having a special Fairy priority move is one of Urshifu’s biggest nightmares.
While with no investment into SpA and Leftovers does not let Comfey OHKO Urshifu, Drain Kiss can do 80% to 96% to Urshifu.
0 SpA Triage Comfey Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu: 276-328 (80.9 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (67.6 - 80.3% recovered)
With Banded Urshifu doing less than what Comfey would heal from too.
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Comfey: 204-240 (66.6 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
If your opponent chickens out, you can restore your HP with Synthesis, or later on, which is good since Comfey has +3 priority on both moves.
And unlike Clefable, Urshifu can’t come back on Comfey later to Poison Jab it because if that priority.
I would still recommend using CM Clefable as Comfey doesn’t have as much power, bulk, or surprise as Clefable, but it’s still good to know Comfey can wreck this top tier Pokemon.

:Grimmsnarl:
Grimmsnarl’s unique typing makes Wicked Blow hit like a someone threw a pencil at you, and Grim can set up Reflect to lessen the damage from Close Combat and Poison Jab.
And of course OHKOs it with Spirit Break.

:Hatterene:
While it doesn’t enjoy being punch in the face with a Crunch that always Crits, or a Poisonous Jab (although surprisingly WB does far more damage here), locking Urshifu into Close Combat is an excellent situation for Hatterene as then it can freely set up Trick Room.

:Mimikyu:
A one time stop to Urshifu thanks to Disguise and can take full advantage of Close Combat.
Unless Wicked Blow or Unseen Fist bypass Disguise, then in which case, completely disregard Mimikyu outside of its immunity to Close Combat.

:Azumarill: :Primarina: Togekiss:
Azumarill, Primarina, and Togekiss all AREN’T good Fairy checks to Urshifu.
They may all scarf Urshifu out with Scarf, but none of then can switch in, even on Urshifu’s STABs without investing into a good chuck of bulk.
DON’T switch these Pokemon into Urshifu.

Fighting:
:Kommo-o:
This guy is an excellent answer to Urshifu. With its Fighting typing, Kommo-o can still have Iron Defense boosts without worrying too much about Wicked Blow, which in turn helps against Close Combat.

:Conkeldurr:
Conk should definitely run some HP investment so it can survive against Urshifu’s Close Combat, where it can then Mach Punch it.
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu: 338-402 (99.1 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

:Terrakion: :Cobalion:
The Good Old Terrakion (and Cobalion).
Both these Pokemon have Justified and outspeed Urshifu, which gives them a huge edge against what will be coming in.

:Hawlucha:
One of the only few Pokemon to resist Dark and Fighting without being a Fairy, it also can set its own Unburden against it with CC if you don’t have terrain setter.

:Lucario:
Can similarly take advantage of Wicked Blow like Terrakion and Cobalion, but now with priority and can use Special Priority too, as well as hit hard to prevent Urshifu from coming in with Aura Sphere.

Urshifu-Rapid-Strikes
Believe it, but Urshifu-RS is a decent check to Urshifu-SS with its typing and good Physical Bulk.
 
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If someone alredy didnt know Poltergeist reveal opposite objet when attack, also that bc this move fail when you attack someone without the item: his item attack him nor the user of Poltergeist..
Example:
AloWak used Poltergeist!
The opposing Volcarona is about to be attacked by its Heavy-Duty Boots!
(The opposing Volcarona lost 100% of its health!)
 
If someone alredy didnt know Poltergeist reveal opposite objet when attack, also that bc this move fail when you attack someone without the item: his item attack him nor the user of Poltergeist..
Example:
AloWak used Poltergeist!
The opposing Volcarona is about to be attacked by its Heavy-Duty Boots!
(The opposing Volcarona lost 100% of its health!)
Are you alright?

But anyways, Poltergeist is a god send for Physical Ghost types. It’s the second highest BP Ghost type move of all time, only being beaten by Shadow Force, and the only downsides being the 90% accuracy and failing against No Item/Consumable item sets.
While I don’t think Physical Ghost types are all going to be top tier, but some with Poltergeist definitely have a much better niche with Poltergeist.
 
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