Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[kstiemsma]

Have you tried using AV ? P good mon.

Not to be a contrarian as I agree TTar is a good check but

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 168-200 (41.5 - 49.5%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Think Latios is disgusting vs balance, right now I agree that revenge killing it seems to be the only method to deal with it. Feels similar to Mega Medicham or Mawile last gen where it gets a guaranteed kill every time it comes in and its speed tier makes it easy to do so. Definitely think Latios is going to become even better as the metagame progresses.

 

[RaikouLover]

Quick post to say this meta game is amazingly fun right now thanks to the tiering staff for testing everything. There’s just so many options right now it’s great!

I’m currently using a dirty broken Rain team, a cool Victini + Dragonite sun team, and a cheese 5. Dragon (KyuB, Dragonite, Salamence, Garchomp, Dragapult) + Magnezone squad that wins way more than it should.

The mons that seem over the top so far are Phermosa, Blaziken, and Naganadel. Even though I manage to beat them, it is quite onerous to prepare and execute consistent counter play for them. Everything else seems manageable right now.

 

[Gerard]

does anyone have a suggestion on counters for this?

Slowking can switch into anything bar thunderbolt/trick but the former is nonexistent and the latter doesn't harm you as much as Blissey.

 

[Galarian Sith]

the weather is a big playstyle with zolt and victini for sand and sun respectively rain is just bad because of regieleki and hail is as bad as ever

 

[Pissog]

rain is just bad because of regieleki

nah fam it's regieleki that is just bad, rain is fine

 

[Galarian Sith]

nah fam it's regieleki that is just bad, rain is fine

rain just gives swiftswimmers a boost in speed w/elekis high speed it can easily revenge kill

 

[MANNAT]

Presenting some alternate takes on Pheromosa...

Pheromosa @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Triple Axel
- Drill Run
- U-turn

Traditionally, mosa tends to struggle with pex resisting its stabs and regenerating off uturns + it has a bit of 4mss on the mixed set and this set aims to fix some of those issues. Between cb u-turn to wear down its checks and triple axel to ensure lando doesn't wall it/2hko clefable after minimal chip, it can power through faries without the need for pjab. The primary concern with this set is that it gets worn down pretty quickly without boots, but mosa is generally a mon that's gonna die to every hit whether it's at 80% or 30% so it's not really a big deal. Really fun set overall, highly recommend trying it out.

 

[MilkyWay]

Quick post to say this meta game is amazingly fun right now thanks to the tiering staff for testing everything. There’s just so many options right now it’s great!

I’m currently using a dirty broken Rain team, a cool Victini + Dragonite sun team, and a cheese 5. Dragon (KyuB, Dragonite, Salamence, Garchomp, Dragapult) + Magnezone squad that wins way more than it should.

The mons that seem over the top so far are Phermosa, Blaziken, and Naganadel. Even though I manage to beat them, it is quite onerous to prepare and execute consistent counter play for them. Everything else seems manageable right now.

Would you mind elaborating more on your rain team?

EDIT: I'm specifically curious because I made a post here detailing some rain abusers I had tried a couple days ago and was wondering what you think of the playstyle/had success with

 

[Empress Mobile]

rain just gives swiftswimmers a boost in speed w/elekis high speed it can easily revenge kill

The two most common Swift Swimmers (Kingdra and Barraskewda) outspeed Modest Regieleki in rain. Ludicolo is only 2hko'd by Electro Ball at best. Kabutops has Aqua Jet. Not to mention the plethora of defensive more rain abusers like Ferrothorn and Excadrill who get all types of free turns out of Regieleki. The playstyle can definitely be hard to pull off but the idea it is invalidated by Regieleki is laughable.

 

[Fabi_ODST]

The two most common Swift Swimmers (Kingdra and Barraskewda) outspeed Modest Regieleki in rain. Ludicolo is only 2hko'd by Electro Ball at best. Kabutops has Aqua Jet. Not to mention the plethora of defensive more rain abusers like Ferrothorn and Excadrill who get all types of free turns out of Regieleki. The playstyle can definitely be hard to pull off but the idea it is invalidated by Regieleki is laughable.

No to be a contrarian, as I usually don't play OU, but electro ball is a suboptimal choice in regieleki, as it's damage is inconsistent against a big part of the metagame. Volt switch and rising voltage/thunderbolt seem like better choices. I agree ferro is a good check, but it gets worn down easily during the match, and everytime the regieleki gets a free turn something is taking heavy damage or straight up dies.
No comments on the excadrill, sice I have yet to see one in a rain team XD

 

[musiquepkmn]

No to be a contrarian, as I usually don't play OU, but electro ball is a suboptimal choice in regieleki, as it's damage is inconsistent against a big part of the metagame. Volt switch and rising voltage/thunderbolt seem like better choices. I agree ferro is a good check, but it gets worn down easily during the match, and everytime the regieleki gets a free turn something is taking heavy damage or straight up dies.
No comments on the excadrill, sice I have yet to see one in a rain team XD

I feel like the best moveset for Regieleki is Volt Switch - Rising Voltage/Thunder/Electro Ball - Thunderbolt - Rapid Spin. Realistically Regieleki isn't gonna be clicking non-electric moves so might as well have the last slot be some nice utility. Physical sets can run Wild Charge - Volt Switch - Assurance/Explosion - Rapid Spin. Same thing, but might as well add assurance for Dragapult looking to live 1 hit. Physical sets suck anyways as your strongest move to hit ground types is explosion, and you can't capitalize on the removal of ground types if you also lost your Regieleki.

 

[RaikouLover]

Would you mind elaborating more on your rain team?

EDIT: I'm specifically curious because I made a post here detailing some rain abusers I had tried a couple days ago and was wondering what you think of the playstyle/had success with

PM me for the team. Basically I’ll just spout a list of really viable best rain users that ive tested for everyone to try:


Swift Swimmers
Barraskewda, Kingdra, Seismitoad, Omastar

Wall breakers
Crawdaunt, Urshifu (both), Volcanion, Kartana, Magearna, Thundurus (both), Toxtricity, Rotom-W, Rotom-M, Kyurem (both), Azumarill, Blastoise, Omastar

Support
Ferrothorn, Swampert, Magnezone

Pivots
Tornadus-T, Scizor, Magearna, Jirachi, Clefable, Lanturn, Zeraora

Electric Immunities
Thunderus-T, Zeraora, Lanturn, Swampert, Garchomp, Excadrill, Seismitoad, Landorus (both)

Rillaboom/Grass Counters

TornadusT, Zapdos, Moltres, Scizor, Noivern, Dragonite, Salamence, Corviknight, Azumarill, Amoonguss, Volcarona

Priority
Barraskewda, Crawdaunt, Azumarill, Urshifu-R, Genesect, Scizor, Dragonite

Try these out. Mix and match them. You should consider having all of these elements in a rain team. Hope this helps!!

 

[Empress Mobile]

The two most common Swift Swimmers (Kingdra and Barraskewda) outspeed Modest Regieleki in rain. Ludicolo is only 2hko'd by Electro Ball at best. Kabutops has Aqua Jet. Not to mention the plethora of defensive more rain abusers like Ferrothorn and Excadrill who get all types of free turns out of Regieleki. The playstyle can definitely be hard to pull off but the idea it is invalidated by Regieleki is laughable.

No to be a contrarian, as I usually don't play OU, but electro ball is a suboptimal choice in regieleki, as it's damage is inconsistent against a big part of the metagame. Volt switch and rising voltage/thunderbolt seem like better choices. I agree ferro is a good check, but it gets worn down easily during the match, and everytime the regieleki gets a free turn something is taking heavy damage or straight up dies.
No comments on the excadrill, sice I have yet to see one in a rain team XD

That is fair, I feel my points on the rest remain. And yes, Ferro gets worn down over a match but so does Regieleki. I think Ferro is a good enough stop gap and can lay down enough Spikes / stall out enough of Eleki's turns to keep it at bay. Especially since in the rain the number of Eleki's teammates that can force Ferro out is diminished. Excadrill is a great answer since it blocks Volt Switch and easily lays back up Rocks against Eleki after a Spin. How exactly does Eleki get a kill or heavy damage each free turn when it is easily stymied by every Ground type in the tier? The best it can hope for is a double switch

 

[Hobie]

PM me for the team. Basically I’ll just spout a list of really viable best rain users that ive tested for everyone to try:

I would add in Zapdos as a good pivot as well as potentially to the wallbreakers section with an offensive set, and Koko definitely belongs in this list too, specs has worked out well on the rain team I've been using so far.

 

[G-Luke]

rain just gives swiftswimmers a boost in speed w/elekis high speed it can easily revenge kill

Just run speed boosting natures of your swift swimmers or make Seismitoad one of your swift swimmers. Rain is annoyed by Regieleki but its still imo the best weather build out rn. Not to mention you can deadass use Regieleki on your rain team.

 

[flyingtaco]

On rain, I think the best electric immunity is Thunderus-T. (Seismitoad is kinda ass)

 

[RaikouLover]

I would add in Zapdos as a good pivot as well as potentially to the wallbreakers section with an offensive set, and Koko definitely belongs in this list too, specs has worked out well on the rain team I've been using so far.

Zapdos isn’t very good as a wall breaker as it’s hard walled by blobs, has no boosting move such as Nasty Plot, and is just generally worse than the genies. It could work as a pivot but the others listed work for immunities (zera or Lanturn), defensive typing (Jirachi, Magearna) or status absorption (Clefable). Zapdos as a pivot basically just is a slower Tornafus-T without Regenerator. It can work, there’s just better options that create more momentum.

 

[Hobie]

Zapdos isn’t very good as a wall breaker as it’s hard walled by blobs, has no boosting move such as Nasty Plot, and is just generally worse than the genies. It could work as a pivot but the others listed work for immunities (zera or Lanturn), defensive typing (Jirachi, Magearna) or status absorption (Clefable). Zapdos as a pivot basically just is a slower Tornafus-T without Regenerator. It can work, there’s just better options that create more momentum.

Regarding its wallbreaker status its true that it is hard walled by the blobs but it has a few advantages over the genies that I don't think you're giving it credit for. It has flying stab which Thundy lacks and Torn lacks the electric moves that Zapdos loves using on rain, so while the respective genies are better at using electric and flying stabs individually Zapdos brings both to the table which is very important.
Regarding its job as a pivot I don't disagree that Torn is generally better but the electric typing and roost does give some reason to use Zapdos over Torn.

 

[RaikouLover]

Regarding its wallbreaker status its true that it is hard walled by the blobs but it has a few advantages over the genies that I don't think you're giving it credit for. It has flying stab which Thundy lacks and Torn lacks the electric moves that Zapdos loves using on rain, so while the respective genies are better at using electric and flying stabs individually Zapdos brings both to the table which is very important.
Regarding its job as a pivot I don't disagree that Torn is generally better but the electric typing and roost does give some reason to use Zapdos over Torn.

Yeah I am sure it can work. The template was just a guide for people to mix and match options. As long as it fits what you need to it’s all good. Zapdos is a decent Rillaboom and Hawlucha check that beats Toxapex. Can’t go wrong with any of that.

I’m surprised no one has given regular Moltres with Flame Body some burn yet, as it can do the same thing on that front while pissing off opposing Ferrothorn as well. Rain has so many options with the Crown Tundra drop it’s insane!

 

[jdcomix]

I'm surprised at how quiet the usage of has been in my experience. It's a decent pivot with fake out knock off and volt switch. Plasma fists too for extra damage. Gets walled by grounds but Rillaboom with a band is a good teammate to help counter that weakness. Love the combo of Rilla, Zera, and Cinderace.

 

[musiquepkmn]

I'm surprised at how quiet the usage of has been in my experience. It's a decent pivot with fake out knock off and volt switch. Plasma fists too for extra damage. Gets walled by grounds but Rillaboom with a band is a good teammate to help counter that weakness. Love the combo of Rilla, Zera, and Cinderace.

Outclassed on the offensive end by Regieleki, who shares the same niche of "get rid of electric types and it sweeps" while being a lot faster and utility rapid spin. Outclassed on the pivot end by Lando-T, who also packs an electric immunity and knock off, while it also has intimidate, stealth rocks, defog, a freely-spammable U-turn, and a ground immunity. Rilla-Zera-Ace was great last meta but you may want to consider switching zeraora out for something else. Not saying it's unusable, just outclassed. Think Incineroar in OU.

 

[Pokecraft]

Interesting that only Genesect and Nagandel were banned right now, I would've expected Lando-I and Kyurem-B to go at the same time as they seem equally uncountable and broken. Still happy with those two gone though, they were ridiculous (and banded extreme speed was way too good).

 

[Kyo]

Not sure I agree with banning Naga first as it is “most ban-worthy” when we have Kyub and Lando-I in the tier (arguably as broken if not more so) sporting 12 and 14 percent usage respectively to Naga’s 6%

 

[OvertoneSeries]

It's kind of funny that the two pokemon who were the biggest roadblock for offense are gone, whereas all the things that balance can't handle are still around. This is going to make checking Kyu-B even more annoying.

 

[TURBODERP]

IMO Galarian Slowking should be listed as a viable OU addition in the preliminary Viability List. Yes, it's not going to be GREAT probably but it's got a unique and useful defensive typing that has important niches over Slowking/Slowbro due to not being weak to Electric, Grass, and Bug (along with a Fairy resistance). Yes, being weak to Ground in a meta where Lando-I exists and Ground-types are everywhere (in part due to Regieleki), but those aforementioned benefits are still notable.