Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

I figured that this post would steer the discussion away from Boots, but Finch did that already. Anyway, here's another absudedly dumb post from me.
View attachment 309194
Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam​

Remember Nasty Plot Hydreigon in DLC1? Remember how Choice Specs Exploud got ranked because of its power and ability to check Spectrier? Meet Porygon-Z. Porygon-Z actually hits harder than Exploud with Adaptability Tri Attack, and while it does not boast the level of coverage Exploud has, Porygon-Z has Nasty Plot, which boosts its Special Attack to astronomical levels and allows it to do some serious wallbreaking. BoltBeam coverage helps out greatly against birds (particularly Corviknight) and Dragons, as well as Landorus-T. On top of that, Porygon-Z has some other options to hit certain foes with, most notably Shadow Ball for Spectrier and Recover for, well, recovery. Speaking of Spectrier, Porygon-Z is a great offensive check to variants without Dark Pulse, as it is immune to Ghost.

Porygon-Z's role is to take advantage of defensive switches like Heatran or Ferrothorn to set up a Nasty Plot and then firing off an attack, just like most other boosting wallbreakers. Porygon-Z can also take advantage of a good portion of the meta, such as Toxapex and all of the defogging birds. Offensive pivoting is also at an all-time high, which means the offensive pivot can go to Porygon-Z to take advantage of the slower, defensive Pokemon that was forced in by the pivot. Cinderace is a good partner for it, as it naturally forces in Pokemon like Toxapex, which Porygon-Z can take advantage of. Porygon-Z's strongest point, however, is its sheer power. With Nasty Plot, Life Orb, and Adaptability, Tri Attack reaches nuclear power and anything that doesn't resist Normal will die in extreme pain. If you think that angry Smogoners are terrifying, take a look at this:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 359-424 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Blissey, I beg you. The singly best Special tank in the game (besides maybe Eviolite Chansey). Here are some more calcs demonstrating this thing's raw power:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 80+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 244-289 (61.9 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Toxapex: 317-374 (104.2 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Screw Tbolt lol)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 181-213 (51.4 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 361-426 (91.6 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 421-497 (99.5 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO (What's a Tbolt?)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 372-439 (108.1 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 382-450 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 543-640 (135.7 - 160%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 196-231 (60.4 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 201-238 (52 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 231-273 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 224+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 117-139 (32.2 - 38.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (but this thing has no recovery so it can only switch in once)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 128 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Melmetal: 165-195 (37.2 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (same thing here)

I'm not done yet. Recall that LO Swords Dance Kartana uses Giga Impact to break massive holes in enemy teams. Well, for Porygon-Z, Hyper Beam is practically a Z-Move in terms of power. It might be a bit hard to fit, but you will be shocked by the amount of power it offers and the amount of holes it makes in the opposite team. While Exploud has Focus Blast and Overheat for Steel-types, Porygon-Z have this incredibly potent nuke. It basically guarentees a kill against most opposing teams. Starting with this one:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 671-790 (93.9 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

BOOM

Not even bulky resists can take a hit:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 334-394 (86.5 - 102%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 302-355 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 80+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 455-536 (115.4 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 311-367 (78.1 - 92.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 451-532 (112.7 - 133%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 554-653 (78.8 - 92.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle: 169-199 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

RBY Tauros would be proud

So, the only things that can take a +2 Hyper Beam and not die are 1) Assult Vested resists 2) 4x resists 3) Specially Defensive Rock-types in a sandstorm and 4) Ghost-types. It should be a no-brainer, then, that Hyper Beam is best ran with Shadow Ball. However, if you manage to get to +2, you almost always get a free kill by just clicking Hyper Beam. I might also add that Porygon-Z 2HKOes almost the entire game barring Ghost-types and Assult Vest Tyranitar.

To sum up, Porygon-Z absolutely ravages bulkier team. It obviously struggles against more offensive teams due to its average speed and low bulk, but it should definately be considered as a wallbreaker to use. That pretty much sums up the post I have about this stupid niche mon, so thanks for reading and have a nice day!

Also I shouldn't even need to say this at this point but I would greatly appreciate it if you point out anything wrong I said. Thank you!
I used Porygon-Z to get reqs myself actually, but I used a different set. I went with a sub leftovers nasty plot set, with leftovers for longevity.


Porygon-Z @ Leftovers
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- Shadow Ball

This set outpaces timid magearna, will always keep a sub up vs toxapex's scald and bold pex's knock off, and has a high chance of keeping a sub vs the relatively uncommon poison jab pex.

0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Porygon-Z: 67-79 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
----
0- Atk Toxapex Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 58-69 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
----
0- Atk Toxapex Poison Jab vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 72-85 (21.2 - 25%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO

Some more hp could be invested to guarantee a sub vs jab pex, but I don't feel this is necessary, and have been doing fine without it.

The given EVs also allow it to 2HKO Galarian Slowking with +2 Tri-Attack, and has a chance to do the same to blissey, which has made it particularly helpful as a stallbreaker. In general, the ghost/normal moves provide great neutral coverage vs the tier.

+2 252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 80+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 204-242 (51.7 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 304-358 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

It's a pretty fun pokemon and I'd encourage others to try it out.
 
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I'm writing this because someone told me today how much this set has helped them, and to frankly give a love letter to a mon that has really awed me ever since crown tundra came out, and which I personally feel is often not being appreciated enough, or used in niches that really fit it. That mon is dragonite.

Personally I just see most people try to use it with a dragon dance set, and it never felt quite right. It felt like someone was trying to make a discount setup garchomp, and the results often tended to show that as well. The set I fell in love with is very different than that set, and it uses dragonite as a defensive mon.

Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Adamant Nature
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Roost

At first, this might seem weird; only two medium power non-STAB moves, and you are running max attack adamant, and no speed investment? defog on a supposed attacker, what is this? but rest assured, everything has its place here.

The reason I suggested this set to the player was because he needed a mon to fill a last place on his team, that needed to both be a defogger, and help with the team's weakness to cinderace. And this set is an amazing tool for that. Just remember those discussions that even in a bad matchup, cinderace can just u turn out? Well this set punishes that with its extreme speed; everytime it tries to u-turn out it takes 40-50% HP. But if you dont want that you can also just defog safely, or roost to keep your multiscale up. Cinderace can't even try to attack you, since you resist hi-jump kick and pyro ball, and if he uses gunk shot (the strongest reasonable thing he can hit dragonite with), have fun if the opponent went for a 134 base attack fully invested adamant earthquake. It's the only defogger whose all 4 against cinderace feel good, and 3 of those (espeed, defog and roost) can do so no matter what the cinderace player does, and the only defogger that feels completely in control in such a situation. If the cinderace takes one espeed, it can probably no longer manually switch in into a lot of things on your team; if it takes 2, everytime it faces dragonite it has to manually switch out or fear getting KOd.

The other great thing about this set is just how well it troubleshoots a lot of different problems for slower teams. With earthquake and reliable recovery, it can protect all those blisseys and pexes from magma storm heatrans throughout the match. Are you afraid you will not be able to get past that regenerator glowking or pex and they will outlast you; well dragonite's powerful EQs pressure them heavily. are you getting set up on by a volcarona/rillaboom/kartana and you brought them down to half HP, but now they have that QD/swords dance that will just outspeed and sweep you? Between dragonite's multiscale, priority, and great defensive typing, they will probably need to take two extreme speeds if they want to sweep you, and most offensive threats need to be at 80% or higher to reliably do that. Maybe you need to just survive that strong specs draco meteor to get the drop; with multiscale, dragonite can make even that sacrifice for the team. It even has a better than 50% chance to live a fleur cannon from specs magearna, and EQ into espeed KOs are not out of the question.
There is always a situation in which this set can greatly contribute to slower teams, and its ability to compress roles as a defogger, relatively decent blanket check and revenge killer makes it an invaluable toolbox for slower balance/stall teams. It's just an amazing team player that can plug holes as enemy team comps and game states necessitate; and while it can get overloaded and can't do EVERYTHING in one game, the fact that it can do so many different things as necessary is still amazing.

To be honest, I'm quite a poopy player at actually piloting teams (I get easily distracted when I'm put on the spot and have to act quickly, and tend to forget things in the heat of the match), and as such don't get as high on the ladder as some other people here, but a team featuring a variant of this set easily took me to an ELO range that's 200-300 higher than I usually manage with anything else (even with me still being a poopy pilot), and that was using a stall team in a meta that didn't (and still doesn't to an extent) favor stall at all. A large part of that was dragonite being an absolute superstar in a staggeringly large portion of my matches, that I didn't even anticipate when throwing this set together.

So as a closing thought, this set really never stopped impressing me while playing. Even though at first it looked so janky, the way its moves, stats, typing, and ability fit together made it such a beauty to use and to see in action. To me no other mon blended offensive prowess and defensive tenacity in quite the same way. So here's to maybe somebody here using it, and the next time people are discussing dragonite, dd doesn't only stand for dragon dance, but for defensive dragonite as well.
 
Looking at the usage stats most it of it seems pretty predictable, Although I am kind of surprised barraskewda didn't get that 4.52 cutoff as I've been seeing rain everywhere and I’m hoping others have too and skarmory and kyurem getting past it wasn't really a shock as those 2 have been on the rise for a while. Latios on the other hand I feel doesn't like spectrier and dragapult and magearna everywhere and urshifu was everywhere early jan. Wonder what everyone elses thoughts are on these stats.
 
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Looking at the usage stats most it of it seems pretty predictable, Although I am kind of surprised barraskewda didn't get that 4.52 cutoff as I've been seeing rain everywhere and I’m hoping others have too and skarmory and kyurem getting past it wasn't really a shock as those 2 have been on the rise for a while. Latios on the other hand I feel doesn't like spectrier and dragapult and magearna everywhere and urshifu was everywhere early jan. Wonder what everyone elses thoughts are on these stats.
I agree about Latios not being a surprise. Its just outclassed heavily by Magearna, Lele, and Nidoking as a special attacker and its prediction reliance and lack of bulk make it really difficult to use. In any metagame with Magearna, I think it'll be really hard to fit on teams.

Also super hyped to see :kyurem: finally "back" in OU, it's been continually good for a long time and nice to see it picking up more. Surprised that :Slowking: hasn't been picking up more as an alternative to Glowking and Bliss, but horse is really restricting special walls so am not too surprised. Also surprised to see :seismitoad: up so high in usage, rain usage ig? don't play a lot of rain but would've thought thundy and zeraora were more attractive electric immunities.
 
Rain is nearly as strong and as popular as Sand, so I really don't understand why Barraskewda's usage was low this last month, considering how fast and strong he is (and annoying, I lose to him almost every time). I guess he dislikes Rillaboom and other mons that can resist his Aqua Jet (or that forces him to switch out.)
 

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January usage stats are here! Credit to Marty for the stats like always! Unfortunately there's no official visual this time around, so I went ahead and tried making one of my own. I only included mons above the 4.52% cutoff. The Urshifu with a blue headband is my own adjusted sprite to represent Urshifu-Rapid-Strike.
Code:
Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
 + ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
 | Rank | Pokemon            | Percent |
 + ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
 | 1    | Landorus-Therian   | 34.973% |
 | 2    | Magearna           | 26.100% |
 | 3    | Cinderace          | 24.089% |
 | 4    | Toxapex            | 22.071% |
 | 5    | Garchomp           | 19.011% |
 | 6    | Clefable           | 18.201% |
 | 7    | Rillaboom          | 18.189% |
 | 8    | Ferrothorn         | 17.737% |
 | 9    | Heatran            | 15.542% |
 | 10   | Slowbro            | 14.772% |
 | 11   | Mandibuzz          | 14.303% |
 | 12   | Spectrier          | 14.229% |
 | 13   | Zapdos             | 13.122% |
 | 14   | Hydreigon          | 12.576% |
 | 15   | Corviknight        | 11.746% |
 | 16   | Tapu Koko          | 11.695% |
 | 17   | Dragapult          | 11.237% |
 | 18   | Slowking-Galar     | 10.614% |
 | 19   | Blissey            | 10.500% |
 | 20   | Excadrill          |  9.706% |
 | 21   | Kartana            |  9.592% |
 | 22   | Tyranitar          |  9.466% |
 | 23   | Tornadus-Therian   |  9.403% |
 | 24   | Melmetal           |  9.132% |
 | 25   | Tapu Fini          |  8.941% |
 | 26   | Urshifu            |  8.476% |
 | 27   | Hippowdon          |  8.132% |
 | 28   | Tapu Lele          |  7.534% |
 | 29   | Swampert           |  7.385% |
 | 30   | Pelipper           |  6.966% |
 | 31   | Regieleki          |  6.274% |
 | 32   | Nidoking           |  6.113% |
 | 33   | Volcarona          |  6.034% |
 | 34   | Hawlucha           |  6.005% |
 | 35   | Dragonite          |  5.986% |
 | 36   | Urshifu-Rapid-Strike |  5.860% |
 | 37   | Skarmory           |  5.299% |
 | 38   | Moltres            |  5.133% |
 | 39   | Kyurem             |  4.675% |
 | 40   | Barraskewda        |  4.475% |
 | 41   | Crawdaunt          |  4.245% |
 | 42   | Zapdos-Galar       |  4.234% |
 | 43   | Buzzwole           |  4.015% |
 | 44   | Latios             |  3.677% |
 | 45   | Slowking           |  3.115% |
 | 46   | Victini            |  2.899% |
 | 47   | Seismitoad         |  2.870% |
 | 48   | Magnezone          |  2.766% |
 | 49   | Obstagoon          |  2.729% |
 | 50   | Tangrowth          |  2.682% |
 | 51   | Azumarill          |  2.670% |
 | 52   | Bisharp            |  2.334% |
 | 53   | Aegislash          |  2.226% |
 | 54   | Zeraora            |  2.217% |
 | 55   | Reuniclus          |  2.105% |
 | 56   | Mew                |  2.069% |
 | 57   | Dracozolt          |  2.046% |
 | 58   | Blaziken           |  2.032% |
 | 59   | Quagsire           |  1.987% |
 | 60   | Zarude             |  1.863% |
 | 61   | Gastrodon          |  1.754% |
 | 62   | Mamoswine          |  1.731% |
 | 63   | Kommo-o            |  1.727% |
 | 64   | Celesteela         |  1.725% |
 | 65   | Suicune            |  1.716% |
 | 66   | Diggersby          |  1.655% |
 | 67   | Weavile            |  1.654% |
 | 68   | Ditto              |  1.597% |
 | 69   | Keldeo             |  1.465% |
 | 70   | Togekiss           |  1.457% |
 | 71   | Torkoal            |  1.429% |
 | 72   | Krookodile         |  1.370% |
 | 73   | Chansey            |  1.304% |
 | 74   | Jirachi            |  1.303% |
 | 75   | Marowak-Alola      |  1.293% |
 | 76   | Ninetales-Alola    |  1.264% |
 | 77   | Rotom-Wash         |  1.220% |
 | 78   | Hatterene          |  1.213% |
 | 79   | Scizor             |  1.208% |
 | 80   | Thundurus-Therian  |  1.201% |
 | 81   | Shuckle            |  1.185% |
 | 82   | Blacephalon        |  1.151% |
 | 83   | Amoonguss          |  1.129% |
 | 84   | Venusaur           |  1.097% |
 | 85   | Tapu Bulu          |  1.023% |
 | 86   | Rhyperior          |  1.008% |
 | 87   | Moltres-Galar      |  0.952% |
 | 88   | Kingdra            |  0.925% |
 | 89   | Latias             |  0.922% |
 | 90   | Snorlax            |  0.887% |
 | 91   | Grimmsnarl         |  0.873% |
 | 92   | Volcanion          |  0.860% |
 | 93   | Gyarados           |  0.858% |
 | 94   | Salamence          |  0.854% |
 | 95   | Arctozolt          |  0.789% |
 | 96   | Gengar             |  0.744% |
 | 97   | Nihilego           |  0.724% |
 | 98   | Umbreon            |  0.698% |
 | 99   | Alakazam           |  0.691% |
 | 100  | Porygon2           |  0.686% |
 | 101  | Klefki             |  0.610% |
 | 102  | Ribombee           |  0.592% |
 | 103  | Cresselia          |  0.590% |
 | 104  | Rotom-Heat         |  0.585% |
 | 105  | Raichu-Alola       |  0.568% |
 | 106  | Conkeldurr         |  0.568% |
 | 107  | Terrakion          |  0.565% |
 | 108  | Shedinja           |  0.529% |
 | 109  | Cloyster           |  0.527% |
 | 110  | Nidoqueen          |  0.484% |
 | 111  | Exploud            |  0.464% |
 | 112  | Primarina          |  0.464% |
 | 113  | Porygon-Z          |  0.458% |
 | 114  | Weezing-Galar      |  0.446% |
 | 115  | Vanilluxe          |  0.435% |
 | 116  | Regidrago          |  0.435% |
 | 117  | Glastrier          |  0.410% |
 | 118  | Audino             |  0.409% |
 | 119  | Toxtricity         |  0.400% |
 | 120  | Charizard          |  0.394% |
 | 121  | Lycanroc-Dusk      |  0.388% |
 | 122  | Darmanitan         |  0.364% |
 | 123  | Stakataka          |  0.348% |
 | 124  | Incineroar         |  0.338% |
 | 125  | Uxie               |  0.327% |
 | 126  | Necrozma           |  0.312% |
 | 127  | Azelf              |  0.308% |
 | 128  | Mimikyu            |  0.263% |
 | 129  | Cinccino           |  0.258% |
 | 130  | Scolipede          |  0.255% |
 | 131  | Heracross          |  0.235% |
 | 132  | Xatu               |  0.235% |
 | 133  | Salazzle           |  0.216% |
 | 134  | Indeedee           |  0.214% |
 | 135  | Araquanid          |  0.210% |
 | 136  | Registeel          |  0.202% |
 | 137  | Drampa             |  0.196% |
 | 138  | Lucario            |  0.192% |
 | 139  | Heliolisk          |  0.192% |
 | 140  | Vaporeon           |  0.191% |
 | 141  | Starmie            |  0.188% |
 | 142  | Tentacruel         |  0.184% |
 | 143  | Pyukumuku          |  0.183% |
 | 144  | Sandaconda         |  0.179% |
 | 145  | Regigigas          |  0.177% |
 | 146  | Arctovish          |  0.173% |
 | 147  | Haxorus            |  0.169% |
 | 148  | Slowbro-Galar      |  0.166% |
 | 149  | Zoroark            |  0.165% |
 | 150  | Tyrantrum          |  0.164% |
 | 151  | Metagross          |  0.161% |
 | 152  | Noctowl            |  0.160% |
 | 153  | Zygarde-10%        |  0.155% |
 | 154  | Milotic            |  0.147% |
 | 155  | Druddigon          |  0.144% |
 | 156  | Stunfisk           |  0.143% |
 | 157  | Eldegoss           |  0.143% |
 | 158  | Golurk             |  0.143% |
 | 159  | Accelgor           |  0.140% |
 | 160  | Whimsicott         |  0.140% |
 | 161  | Thundurus          |  0.138% |
 | 162  | Jellicent          |  0.136% |
 | 163  | Sylveon            |  0.135% |
 | 164  | Polteageist        |  0.132% |
 | 165  | Galvantula         |  0.129% |
 | 166  | Pikachu            |  0.123% |
 | 167  | Tornadus           |  0.122% |
 | 168  | Xurkitree          |  0.120% |
 | 169  | Mantine            |  0.115% |
 | 170  | Omastar            |  0.114% |
 | 171  | Aurorus            |  0.112% |
 | 172  | Bronzong           |  0.110% |
 | 173  | Ninetales          |  0.110% |
 | 174  | Entei              |  0.109% |
 | 175  | Gardevoir          |  0.108% |
 | 176  | Linoone            |  0.107% |
 | 177  | Slurpuff           |  0.106% |
 | 178  | Sandslash-Alola    |  0.106% |
 | 179  | Bewear             |  0.104% |
 | 180  | Goodra             |  0.104% |
 | 181  | Blastoise          |  0.103% |
 | 182  | Flygon             |  0.103% |
 | 183  | Golisopod          |  0.100% |
 | 184  | Poliwrath          |  0.100% |
 + ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
With Urshifu-Single-Strike being banned and a longer time between usage stats, we have some rather sizable changes. Also, this month was a quick usage month, so nothing really rose/dropped for OU since this month used a 1.52% cutoff instead.

Changes to the top 10:

#2 (26.395%) > #6 (18.201%)
As mentioned above, Urshifu-Single Strike was a huge reason for Clefable's high usage, and while it's still a great supportive Pokemon, Clefable isn't as necessary or mandatory as it once was. Clefable is still very capable of supporting teams through Stealth Rock, Knock Off/Trick, Wish, and Thunder Wave. Additionally, Heal Bell/Aromatherapy is starting to see some usage on Clefable as well. Finally, Wish + Teleport Clefable still exists, although it's having less ease with safely pulling off both moves in succession due to the increased number of offensive threats to force it out, as well as opposing Slowbro/Slowking being capable of punishing Clefable through their own Teleport.

#8 (17.110%) > #3 (24.973%)
Cinderace was already a potent threat in the metagame, but with the return of Tapu Koko and Zeraora, it's starting to find an easier way to become even more common. It also helps that Cinderace is able to make great use of Future Sight from the likes of Slowbro, Slowking, and Slowking-Galar. Set wise, Cinderace is still using a 4 attack offensive pivot set with Heavy-Duty Boots, with the most common moves being U-turn, Pyro Ball, High Jump Kick, Sucker Punch, and Gunk Shot. Also, Electro Ball has started seeing some usage in order to 2HKO Slowbro and Toxapex, especially when used in Electric Terrain from Tapu Koko. Here is a replay from SPL in which Electro Ball Cinderace put in a decent amount of work. Last but not least, Cinderace pairs well with Choice Specs Magearna, which is a strong threat on its own, but when paired together, the damage they can do together is tremendous. Overall, Cinderace is a strong offensive threat in the metagame that has an easy time becoming stronger through strategies like Future Sight and teammates like Tapu Koko, Zeraora and Magearna.

#17 (10.503%) > #10 (14.772%)
Slowbro has finally made it to the top 10 most used Pokemon in OU! It's been fairly common since DLC2 started, as it is a great supportive mon that can provide defensive utility while also supporting breakers through Future Sight + Teleport. Slowbro is capable of switching into Cinderace (U-turn still hurts a good amount so it's not a perfect answer), Melmetal, Landorus and Garchomp. The other half to Slowbro (applies to Slowking too) is that it can switch into other defensive Pokemon, such as Toxapex, and then Teleport to safely bring in an offensive teammate in order to force Toxapex out. This can be done to offensive Pokemon as well should Slowbro be paired with a faster offensive teammate like Tapu Koko or Dragapult. Move wise, Future Sight, Teleport, Slack Off and Scald are the most common moves, but Ice Beam is seen from time to time as well in order to KO Garchomp and Landorus more easily.

Notable increases:

#26 (8.404%) > #14 (12.576%)
If you've been watching SPL, you'll notice that Hydreigon is actually #2 in usage over there. The reason for Hydreigon's increased usage is solely because it is one of the most reliable answers to Spectrier that can fill other roles as well. Hydreigon can also check Heatran, prevent Slowbro/Slowking from using Teleport after using Future Sight, and it can provide Defog as well. Hydreigon often uses Dark Pulse, Earth Power, Roost and Defog, but Snarl has been used as well in order to hit Spectrier from behind a Substitute. Although it's mostly used for its defensive utility, offensive Hydreigon is still pretty good and has started to see some usage in SPL as well. I'll link some replays below.

#31 (7.445%) > #17 (11.237%)
Dragapult is back again and this time around it's using both the traditional Hex pivot set and the Choice Specs set. Choice Specs Dragapult can be difficult to switch into for teams that try and rely on Hydreigon as their Ghost-type resist. Dragapult being faster than Tapu Koko has also made it a strong threat as the only mons faster than Dragapult are Zeraora, Excadrill in Sand, and Choice Scarf users, the latter of which are rare nowadays. Zeraora seeing usage again hurts Dragapult a little, but either way, it's a solid revenge killer and a strong threat in the metagame.

Here are the usual questions:

1. Are there any increases/decreases that you're enjoying or are unhappy with?
2. What are your favorite sets/moves to use on the above mons?
3. Are there any new moves/sets you've been using that have been performing well?
4. Do you have any predictions for what may increase or decrease in the next few weeks?
5. Are there any mons you could see rising to OU next month?
6. How do you feel about Cinderace?
7. How do you feel about Magearna?
8. Are there any mons you believe are overrated or underrated in the current metagame?
9. What is your favorite defensive core to use?
10. What is your favorite offensive core to use?

Hope you all had a wonderful January and I hope you all enjoy February even more :)
 
Rain is nearly as strong and as popular as Sand, so I really don't understand why Barraskewda's usage was low this last month, considering how fast and strong he is (and annoying, I lose to him almost every time). I guess he dislikes Rillaboom and other mons that can resist his Aqua Jet (or that forces him to switch out.)
To answer your question. It has to do with the meta not being too kind to rain at the moment. Nearly all well built teams are running water resists (Toxapex, Slowtwins, Ferro, Tangrowth, etc), and rain in general has some very bad mus, Rilla, Ace, Pex, and Kyurem being really bad ones. Rain also has a hard time maintaining itself alive for long games due to how rock weak Pelipper is. Barra struggles with having poor bulk and being very mu dependent whether its doing amazing vs HO or struggling to scratch fatter teams. Sand eclipses rain by being more versatile, more resilient, and having a sand setter like Hippo who doesn’t die after hitting the field 5 times for the cost of some offensive pressure.
 

Katy

Banned deucer.
Hello,

to answer some of TPPs questions:

1. Are there any increases/decreases that you're enjoying or are unhappy with?
Increases I'm happy with is definitely Dragapult, I enjoy this Pokemon alot and I'm truly happy that our ghosty Dragon finally gets the surge in usage again as I feel it is currently an effective threat, stated in a post I have written up a few days ago. I feel the utility set of it really serves great in the current metagame with Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave, U-Turn, Hex, and Draco Meteor. This Pokemon clarifies itself as one top threat again and it gets used more in Tour Games too, which I'm happy about.
On another note Cinderace really shows how effective it is, its great Speed tier and coverage options leave not much room for Pokemon to really hardcounter it. Cinderace is one top threat, which we have to keep in mind from the get go stage, that means in the builder already. I'm not too sure about if it is lowkey broken, but seeing this Rabbit perform that well only shows how a menace it is; and that success speaks for itself.

2. What are your favorite sets/moves to use on the above mons?
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature

- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock


I love this Garchomp-set currently, Its a nice options for an offensive Stealth Rocks-lead and I feel like this set should be explored a little bit more, as it can dish out heavy damage on incoming checks such as Lando-T, Corviknight, and Skarmory.

4. Do you have any predictions for what may increase or decrease in the next few weeks?
If Spectrier gets banned I'd assume Pokemon like Gengar, Blacephalon and perhaps Aegislash will make a return as top ghosts in the tier. I do also think that Hydreigon could become more offensive again but Mandibuzz usage will definitely decrease a little. Moreover Blissey could decrease in usage as with Spectrier gone and gengars, Blacephalons, and Aegislashs coverage options, it has a harder time checking them.

5. Are there any mons you could see rising to OU next month?
I think Kyurem might make a comeback again, as its tour usage isn't bad at all and it truly is an underrated Pokemon atm with having a great moveset-pool, being Choice Specs, Sub + DD, and Sub + Roost, which makes this Pokemon a great threat in the OU Metagame.

9. What is your favorite defensive core to use?
My favorite defensive core to use is Galarian Slowking, Corviknight, and Toxapex as they cancel out each others weaknesses pretty well. Both, Galarian Slowking and Toxapex, can soak up Toxic Spikes (although they are rare currently) and both can check common threats to Corviknight such as Heatran, Volcarona, and Tapu Koko, whereas Corviknight gives them both a great ground immunity and moreover a check to Psychic-types and Psychic-type moves.

10. What is your favorite offensive core to use?
Tapu Koko with Choice Specs and Cinderace is a great offensive core and they can forme a nice VoltTurn-Core to go rampant on opposing teams with their great Speed tier and huge power due to Tapu Koko having its Electric Terrain and great coverages and Cinderace having the great Libero ability. But I really wanna try out Zeraora and Cinderace as Zeraoras Speed tier has a natural dangerous level, as it puts it above even faster Pokemon such as Dragapult and I feel this core should be explored more in the future.


Thank you for reading and hope everyone has a G'day!
 
Hi !
Thx for usages & questions =)

1. Are there any increases/decreases that you're enjoying or are unhappy with?​
→ Happy to see clef drop, santa claus answered me!

2. What are your favorite sets/moves to use on the above mons?​
→ I really enjoy using Dragapult hex-pivot (Twave ; infiltrator) sometime mixed-atk with Dragon Darts.

6. How do you feel about Cinderace?​
7. How do you feel about Magearna?​
→ Magearna especially is uber. Cinderace isn't healthy.
Victini resist theres moves & can wisp cinderace on sucker punch.

Victory Star = WoW is more accurate.
I like to pressure offensively my opponent with Victini to make him switch in his ground pokemons and his walls.
That's the moment i click power-up-punch or wisp depending situation. Wisp help to cripple grounds and disable the leftovers recovery ; P-u-punch help 2hko some walls with bolt strike.
This set is well paired with hex user or electric spam // a defensive backup, a wish passer.

Victini @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Will-O-Wisp​

Playing Victini is like holding your opponent's nuts.

4. Do you have any predictions for what may increase or decrease in the next few weeks?​
→ With horseban,
-Dragons will improve : Dragapult become the faster ghost, Hydreigon can use offensive set (what a beast), Latios will stop to be grimm'neight meat. Weather forcast meteors rain...
-Psychic types and other ghost will improve : specs & sub-NP gengar, hatterene (stall breaker), aegislash, and Glowking!
-so Dark types will diversify, will stop to be selected by "check horse" > "don't check horse" and surely get more offensive... Crawdaunt, maybe Bisharp. Band Ttar back ?
-with more dark type usable and better dragons, some fairy will improve... Especially magearna and clefable ?
-more Trick Room ?

5. Are there any mons you could see rising to OU next month?​
→ Gengar ; Crawdaunt
 
1. Are there any increases/decreases that you're enjoying or are unhappy with?
Been using pivot Dragapult a lot myself recently and it always puts in a ton of work even though I feel a little guilty spreading t-waves.

3. Are there any new moves/sets you've been using that have been performing well?
Superpower Nidoking. Does 57% minimum to Blissey, so after two special attacks it should be in range. Frees up the defensive answer for itself and any other special attackers you may have.

Not OU obviously, but I've also been running sticky hold Gastrodon to some success as a specs Magearna answer. Even fully sp def it can't take two fleur cannons unfortunately, but it stops the volt switch and more importantly cannot be tricked. Also a great switch in to magma storm Heatran as it threatens with EQ, making it scary for Heatran to toxic/taunt after the magma.

6. How do you feel about Cinderace?
7. How do you feel about Magearna?
Magearna is too much and I think should be suspected next. I love Cinderace, but I think it deserves a suspect as well, though I'm not sure how I'd vote on it yet.
 
1. Are there any increases/decreases that you're enjoying or are unhappy with?

:Clefable:
Clefable is not worthy of being #6 in usage in my opinion. Physically Defensive Clefable does not fit well on teams right now, because while it may provide utility in a variety of ways, it does not check anything in the top 39 pokemon listed here very well except for SD Garchomp (and it does not do this well at +2 or against LO sets), Hawlucha and Dragonite (only really seen on HO), or Physical Dragapult sets (less common than Hex variants). PhysDef + Calm Mind variants are probably underrated and underused, but there are certain threats that you must check in this metagame and running this pokemon makes it harder to do that. Specially Defensive Clefable feels like the optimal spread at the moment, as it is one of the few defensive answers to Kyurem, counters the average Hydreigon set well, and has a better matchup against Hex Dragapult which tends to be more common. Even then, I would personally place it around #11-15 for now. It offers a lot of utility and role compression in theory, but in practice, it lets in too many dangerous threats like Cinderace, Nidoking, Heatran, Magearna and Excadrill which are not things you want having free turns. Again, not saying Clefable is "bad", but to me #6 is a stretch.

6. How do you feel about Cinderace?


:Cinderace:
Manageable due to the omnipresence of bulky grounds and waters which I would be using on teams anyway exactly as they are, but probably will be looked into at some point due to its ability to outlast most of them. I'm sure I'll have more to say at a later time. I think it's hard to argue it isn't the best pokemon in the current metagame.

7. How do you feel about Magearna?

:Magearna:
When Magearna was suspect tested at the end of DLC 1, I thought it should have been banned on the basis of the Choice Specs set's effectiveness and its warping effect on gameplay at every level. That set simply does not have the griphold on the outcome of games like it previously did, and despite it being a generally strong wallbreaking option at the moment, it is not far and away the best or most consistent option compared to other threats in the tier. I do not think the setup sets are broken either. It is a speedy way to lawnmower through your first ~15 games for suspect ladders, but at higher levels of play, this gimmick does not go too far. I think Finch said it well in one of his recent videos, these sets either win the game or they don't, and as far as I'm concerned they don't win enough games in enough fished-for-matchups to be considered broken. Always happy to change my views if things change as I did at the end of DLC 1, but I personally don't see this pokemon as a problem, and have not had issues dealing with it. Again, I will probably have more to say in the future.

8. Are there any mons you believe are overrated or underrated in the current metagame?

:Suicune:
Suicune is massively underrated and has been one of the most consistent options I have used for the last month or so. If you can position it properly, it can circumvent a ton of what would otherwise be considered counterplay, and rarely ever feels like deadweight in a game. It definitely has some rough matchups in the form of Taunt Fini, Amoonguss, Kyurem, Infiltrator Dragapult and Blissey, but I find it to be effective against anything that doesn't completely shut it down.

10. What is your favorite offensive core to use?

:Victini: Victini + :Cinderace: Cinderace

Victini @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe (or 252HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe)
Hasty Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike / Final Gambit
- U-turn
- Glaciate

Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot / Electro Ball
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick

So fun to use - I used this core in OST and on the ladder with great success. Teams that rely on only one of Landorus-T, Toxapex, Slowbro, or TankChomp as their answer to physically-offensive fires like Cinderace and (the admittedly rare) Blaziken get overwhelmed by this core quickly. This core is highly customizable and is really only as effective as you pilot it and build with it, but that's what makes it fun for me. Hasty Nature ensures that Glaciate is a 2HKO on TankChomp, it easily 2HKO's Landorus-T, does about 87% absolute min on the rare Dragonite (with no HP investment), and the speed drop allows Victini to pivot out of something faster like Torn-T that would otherwise not take too much damage from this, or drop speed to 2HKO with Bolt Strike immediately after. Bolt Strike is also there for Tapu Fini, Slowbro, Suicune, Toxapex and Pelipper, all of which check Cinderace more or less well. This is probably the "optimal" spread, but again, Victini has so many options that you can tailor this depending on how you want to run Cinderace or Blaziken, or whatever your team needs.

Speaking of which, I know you see that second slashed move. Heavy Duty Boots + Final Gambit is a very fun combo and while Final Gambit tends to be a better option for Scarf Victini / HO teams, you can make it work with HDB if you want to tailor it that way. At max HP (404) absolutely zero of Cinderace's checks are able to stomach a Final Gambit, so you pick and choose what you want to remove from the game and let Cinderace or whoever else do the rest. If you go this route, you'll be sacrificing some power on V-Create such that you can't 2HKO things like PhysDef Clefable anymore (need at least 216 Atk EVs), but you can simply U-turn on Clef and run Gunk Shot Ace as a remedy there. This also solves the Hippowdon/Swampert problem - a duo that would otherwise wall both of these two, but drop to Final Gambit due to not having enough HP to stomach one at full. This is definitely outplayable, but being a nearly-dead check against Cinderace is functionally death anyway. You can mess around with Special Victini or Energy Ball, Electro Ball Cinderace, or pair this core with U-Turn Rillaboom for Grassy Terrain support + eliminating that thing's checks as well. Definitely a fun core to build around if it suits your playstyle. Enjoy.
 
6. How do you feel about Cinderace?
7. How do you feel about Magearna?
1612224609982.png

Cinderace is as strong and as good as ever, it's just that simple. However, determining if Cinderace is banworthy is something I'm not sure about.
On the one hand, personally I don't think he's as problematic as he was in the DLC1 meta. With the returnal of some mons that can check him (such as Dragonite or Suicune, as seen here,) along with the usual good old checks (as seen here), Ace is more manageable.
On the other hand, Ace is still capable of defeating his own checks under the right circumstances and play mind games with Sucker Punch. Also, Life Orb sets are immensely powerful that sometimes it's better to use that rather than HDB.
My opinion is just that Ace is slightly more manageable than he was in DLC1, and unlike those times where I wanted him gone, this time I'm in a neutral position, and I wouldn't care much if he goes away or stays. Anyways, you should never understimate him.

1612225826589.png

Even with the removal of Z-Moves and the returning mons such as Heatran, Mag is incredibly powerful if that wasn't obvious already. Mag got tons of new moves when she returned in IoA and during that time she already proved to be banworthy. It has some unpredictability value because she can use whatever set she wants and it will perform very well anyways. Having a great ability that activates even if she didn't got a kill is just ridiculous. Mag's typing is great defensively while also providing some offensive value. Mag should be suspected after Spectrier's suspect ends.
 
7. How do you feel about Magearna?

I feel it should be quickbanned. Whether it is shift gear, iron defense or specs, there is no downside to having Mag on your team. Although specs and shiftgear are what make it banworthy, IMO. Shiftgear can run little bit of bulk and weakness policy to be able to use common Pokemon as fodder and proceed to easily outspeed and sweep most teams. Notable Pokemon it can setup on when properly invested include: Cinderace, Landorus-T, Heatran and Nidoking. If it's offensive presence weren't more than enough, it also has incredible bulk. 80/115/115 with one of the best typings in the game that resists most priority moves. It's very hard to stop Mag from getting rolling and once it starts snowballing, there's no shutting it down. I feel it should be banned immediately.
 

Ehmcee

A Spoopy Ghost
is a Pre-Contributor
7. How do you feel about Magearna?
There is no downside to having Mag on your team
False, Magearna has a very significant downside that it carries onto a team. While fairy and steel is an excellent typing, it imposes the burden of not having a bulkier steel or fairy onto the same team, unless willing to double up on type weaknesses. There are many incredible defensive steel types in the meta, running magearna makes it harder to bring these defensive options, as well as not allowing a fairy type cleric.

Magearna is definitely an exceptional pokemon, but stating that it has absolutely no downsides is plain wrong.

Notable Pokemon it can setup on when properly invested include: Cinderace, Landorus-T, Heatran and Nidoking.
Magearna absolutely cannot safely setup on these pokemon, especially heatran unless dedicating an entire moveslot to focus blast.
 
False, Magearna has a very significant downside that it carries onto a team. While fairy and steel is an excellent typing, it imposes the burden of not having a bulkier steel or fairy onto the same team, unless willing to double up on type weaknesses.
I'd like to ask which bulkier fairy type you're running in place of Magearna? It's either more bulky or has comparable bulk to every other fairy type that's legal in OU besides Diance so I'm not sure what bulkier fairy types you could be talking about?'

Also, the only steel types that are substantially bulkier than mage overall would be Ferro and Aegislash. We're talking about a Pokemon that has 130 SpA and is bulkier than Coviknight, keep in mind.
 
While fairy and steel is an excellent typing, it imposes the burden of not having a bulkier steel or fairy onto the same team
Fairies are weak to poison and steel, magearna don't. It's good pair with an other fairy...
2 steel pokemons don't make you that weak in a team, it happen often.
Having more than 2 ground weakness is a problem.
 
I'd like to ask which bulkier fairy type you're running in place of Magearna? It's either more bulky or has comparable bulk to every other fairy type that's legal in OU
I'm in the "Cinderace most broken but test Mag second" camp, but just wanted to respond to this. I would argue that Mags bulky attributes are not comparable to other fairies, but instead other Steel types. Just looking at the offensive ways Mag is dealt with, Ground and Fire types are used primarily to hit it for SE damage, other than phat stuff like Mel that DIBs to damage it, and its defensive utility is dealing with Psychic and Fairy types among others. I'm only arguing this because there are defensive steel types that provide more defensive utility than even fully invested Magearna, including Corvi, Tran, Ferro and Mel. Clef also has more effective bulk as a Fairy than Mag, but isn't that good in this meta so ik whatchu mean.

I do agree with you that is obviously broken though and it sucks that we need to go through the motions of suspecting these things that we know are gonna get banned with 80% majority. I know why we suspect things and don't disagree with the intention behind it but it sucks to have obviously broken things (like Dug for 4 months, Vish for 6 1/2, and Mag not being quickbanned in DLC 1) basically stopping metagame development. I understand why it happens and don't blame the council but it just sucks and wanted to \rant for a bit.
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
Well, here are my answers to the usage questions

1. Are there any increases/decreases that you're enjoying or are unhappy with?

Only :Clefable:. Seeing a pokemon that you absolutely loathe drop in usage is such a nice feeling
Water :Urshifu: is the one I'm most surprised with. Toxapex is still around. How in the hell did this thing get more usage


2. What are your favorite sets/moves to use on the above mons?

I don't use :Clefable: at all. It's a special rule of mine not to use a pokemon I absolutely hate

On :Cinderace:, just the four attacks pivot set with hjk, pyro ball, u turn and gunk shot

With :Slowbro:, it is a set of ice beam, scald, teleport and slack off. I rarely ever click future sight on this thing as I would rather get my heavy hitter in safely

Four attacks mix :Garchomp: is another set that I love using, which I mainly pair with scarf :Spectrier:. I usually pass up sr for stone edge because I just don't see that much of a need for rocks with just about every pokemon in the tier having boots. I love spamming the fruit from hell aka :Ferrothorn: so I value spikes a lot more than sr because I HATE Magearna

Lastly, specs :Dragapult:. It's just a simple set to use that I don't even bother to use any other set


3. Are there any new moves/sets you've been using that have been performing well?

A choice band on :Blaziken: with u turn, knock off and stabs as its moves. It's a rather decent but I haven't used it enough to give a solid result

4. Do you have any predictions for what may increase or decrease in the next few weeks?

:Slowbro:. I have a feeling that once :Spectrier: gets banned, this is gonna be the best bulky water. The ability to slow down something as poweful as Garchomp and buy you a couple turns from its onslaught is just so valuable given that the shark is more dangerous than ever. It isn't just Garchomp but also many powerful non Kartana attackers for some reason gets stuffed by a pokemon whose facial expression is duller than my neighbor's sense of music. Makes perfect sense doesn't it

Other ghost types like :Blacephalon: and :Dragapult:. If Spectrier gets banned, other ghosts no longer have to live in its shadow, well, if ghosts even have shadows anyway

:Tyranitar: and :Hydreigon: will definitely drop out. Their greatest lease in ou has always been stopping Spectrier from trampling your team. If it does get banned by the end of the week, I feel these two will drop to uu almost instantly

:Melmetal: is another pokemon that I believe that will decrease in usage. For as long as Zapdos exists, this thing is gonna have nightmares like hell


5. Are there any mons you could see rising to OU next month?

Only the other ghosts that aren't in ou atm for the reasons I mentioned

6. How do you feel about Cinderace?

Pretty meh. I don't particularly have trouble with this mon so I don't really care that much about it

7. How do you feel about Magearna?

I absolutely hate this thing. If there is one thing that makes me rage quit a battle instantly it is seeing this stupid thing along with a screens setter. Really, whoever in gamefreak thought that this pokemon is a good thing deserves to have a fleur cannon shoved down their throats. I still don't understand how in the hell artificial pokemon gets every bloody move in the game

8. Are there any mons you believe are overrated or underrated in the current metagame?

For overrated no. For underrated, :Tapu Lele:. This thing is an absolute beast with just a simple specs set and its terrain is my favorite terrain. Lele has won me many battles already since I've been using it a lot lately

9. What is your favorite defensive core to use?

:Slowbro: with av :Slowking-Galar:. I always loved this core but had to use it sparingly because of a certain damned horse but still my favorite

10. What is your favorite offensive core to use?

:Cinderace: or :Landorus-Therian: with :Garchomp: or :Tapu Lele: and only because bringing in the last two safely is such a good thing. Really, I love this combo that I've been spamming them like crazy
 
Magearna absolutely cannot safely setup on these pokemon, especially heatran unless dedicating an entire moveslot to focus blast.
No real strong opinions about what should be banned, but wanted to clarify this. Magearna is actually pretty bulky normally, doubly so with Reflect/Light Screen, which lets it eat some very strong SE hits. The situations I go through below assume Magearna has Reflect + Light Screen (the beloved Screens + WP Set-up sweeper), and both it and the other pokemon hit the field at the same time. Calcs under the hide tag.

Magearna actually wins the 1v1 vs Boots Cinderace because it Shift Gears (Pyro Ball does 50-60%) and then WP goes off and it blasts you with Stored Power. Band Cinderace chunks for a good bit more but is telegraphed on the switch because Cinderace will take hazard damage, and doesn't even guarantee the OHKO. The Landorus interaction goes pretty much the same as the Cinderace one, both scarf and defensive do ~50-60% under reflect (Band doesn't even guarantee an OHKO, but it does a lot much like Cinderace so there's that). SD isn't much better because Magearna has a 50% chance to OHKO with unboosted Fleur Cannon, so if it Shift Gears while you SD (trying not to set off WP) then Landorus could very well drop and Magearna still hasn't been damaged. Nidoking goes very similar in that it does ~50-60% behind Light Screen & then just drops to boosted Stored Power (even Stored Power just off of a single Shift Gear does 70-80%).

Magearna (Non-Focus Blast) struggles with Heatran, Shift Gear + WP Stored Power does upwards of 50-60% back, and you do ~60% with an invested Magma Storm so there isn't much risk there. All things considered, Heatran does come out on top in this interaction.

All that being said, I've made no assumption of Magearna's 4th Move in this case (all it needs for this is Shift Gear, Fleur Cannon, Stored Power with WP) so it could be Focus Blast for Heatran or CM to further grab boosts against more passive answers, or whatever else. This also isn't assuming any free turns for Magearna, if you factor that in (i.e. these threats need to switch in) these situations become more favorable and that 4th move starts to matter more (It goes Shift Gear -> CM (+WP) -> blow everything away). This was all meant to say that Magearna can, in fact, set up on these pokemon with a non-niche set/team set-up, and these are some very powerful SE hits so neutral hits will do even less (and in those cases it can just continue to set up until it has enough boosts to kill).

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna through Reflect: 160-190 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna through Reflect: 240-283 (79.7 - 94%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Magearna Stored Power (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 442-520 (146.8 - 172.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna through Reflect: 157-186 (52.1 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna through Reflect: 132-156 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna through Reflect: 237-279 (78.7 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 256-303 (80.2 - 94.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna through Light Screen: 165-196 (54.8 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magearna Stored Power (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 222-262 (73.2 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna through Light Screen: 144-171 (47.8 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and trapping damage
+2 252 SpA Magearna Stored Power (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 165-194 (51 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
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Goodbye & Thanks

Thrown in a fire?
I haven't played as much recently and I probably won't be as active going forward, but I do want to give my thoughts on Cinderace and Magearna, since after Spectrier, they could potentially be the last two Pokemon to get suspected in SS OU, barring any more DLC.

6. How do you feel about Cinderace?

I feel like Cinderace is extremely good and possibly the best offensive Pokemon in the tier, but I'm not convinced that its presence is detrimental to the metagame. Libero is obviously fantastic and Cinderace's relatively expansive movepool allows it to more or less choose its counters, but I don't feel like Cinderace's inclusion in the tier really distorts teambuilding the way that Urshifu and Spectrier did/do. If you assume that Cinderace has Pyro Ball and three of U-turn/HJK or Low Kick/Gunk Shot/Sucker Punch/Zen Headbutt, there is a decent selection of already very common Pokemon that can reliably check it, such as defensive Lando, Garchomp, Rocky Helmet Pex (Cinderace pretty much needs a Zen Headbutt flinch to get past physically defensive Pex and it can't afford to fish against a Rocky Helmet), Rocky Helmet Slowbro (U-turn does sting a little but Cinderace gets chipped by Helmet and Slowbro gets Regenerator recovery, provided you have a decent switch for whatever comes in), Hippowdon, Pelipper, and even the less common, but still good, defensive Dragonite (as an aside, I think that the physically defensive set with Earthquake, Ice Beam, Roost, and Heal Bell used by Storm Zone in this SPL game is really cool, even though it doesn't face off against a Cinderace in that game). Moltres and Zapdos aren't the best answers to Cinderace since they really don't like switching into Gunk Shot, but they are also a deterrent to it grabbing momentum with U-turn as well. And yeah, I get that it could run Bulk Up or Electro Ball (which we've seen more recently in SPL, particularly paired with Electric Terrain from Tapu Koko) to get past some of those checks, but I really don't think that either of those sets are as good or reliable as the traditional four coverage move ones. Bulk Up also was only used on 9.386% of Cinderaces in January at 1825, while Electro Ball wasn't even one of the 8 most common moves on it, and running either of those options forgoes the ability to threaten other common Pokemon. So the point that I'm trying to make is that all of those Pokemon that I listed as checks are all valuable in their own right and I think that they would likely be about as common even if Cinderace wasn't in the tier, which I feel like is an important distinction between Cinderace and Urshifu/Spectrier. There are more options to check Cinderace than there were for Urshifu and Cinderace's presence isn't really inflating the use of certain Pokemon as substantially as Spectrier is with Tyranitar, Mandibuzz, and Hydreigon. Cinderace also doesn't really force its checks to run suboptimal movesets that they otherwise wouldn't, like Spectrier does with things like defensive Hydreigon with Snarl.

The other thing about Cinderace is that its speed tier isn't as solid as it was before Crown Tundra released, which means that it more often than not is Jolly and makes Sucker Punch more common, preventing it from running a different coverage move that it would rather have. There are also more viable Choice Scarf options, such as Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini, Lando, and Kartana (if Cinderace has been chipped), now that can threaten Cinderace than there were when it was previously banned. Possibly the most annoying thing about Cinderace is how Heavy Duty Boots allows it to repeatedly come in for free, especially in combination with all of the good pivots like Slowbro/Slowking, Blissey, Corviknight, etc., but I think that's more of a general problem (or perhaps saying "aspect" might be better, if "problem" is too harsh) with SS. I previously talked about the impact of Heavy Duty Boots on the meta here, and I still think that the larger issue with Boots is how they're used on things like Blissey and Slowbro/Slowking. It's obvious that SS games have a tendency to be very long and SS OU has garnered a reputation as the "boring tier" from many players - top players included. I personally have enjoyed SS OU since I like slower, more methodical games, and I don't think that it's necessarily a problem that the tier has taken more of a turn that way, but I do wonder what would happen to the pace of games if Cinderace was removed from the tier. I really don't like using baseless theory and I know that you're not supposed to project out to hypothetical future metagames, but right now, I think that Cinderace is often one of the best Pokemon at forcing progress in games. This is important since it can be so difficult to try to make progress in SS at times and I'm a little fearful that if Cinderace does get removed some day, it will just make the very sturdy defensive backbones rife with Boots/Regenerator/Teleport even harder to get past.

Now I know that the Smogon masses can be kind of fervent with their clamoring for things to be banned (which is kind of pointless when something isn't even being currently suspected and many of the most vocal people don't get reqs anyway, and I'm sorry if that sounds pretentious when I don't have much of a "right" to be, but I think it's kind of indicative of how many things in the real world go as well), so before the angry mob turns their pitchforks on me for being a "Cinderace defender," I will reiterate that I think that Cinderace is excellent. It's incredibly versatile, easy to slot onto teams, and is equally threatening as both a wall-breaker and a cleaner. I'm not trying to downplay Cinderace and say that the fact that it can be checked is really a "weakness" of it; rather, what I'm saying is that I think I'm ok with Cinderace being one of the best offensive Pokemon in the tier. I don't really feel like it distorts teambuilding and it isn't as one-dimensional and "brain dead" as things like Dracovish, Urshifu, and Spectrier (although I don't really feel like something being viewed as one-dimensional or "brain dead" should be taken into account when considering a Pokemon's spot in the meta). There always need to be some Pokemon that are amongst the most threatening offensive options in a meta, and although Cinderace is extremely good and certainly fills that role, I'm not convinced that it is "unhealthy" or that the meta would improve with it being banned down the line. Also, this is a minor side point and I know that citing inaccurate moves as a reason for a Pokemon being "balanced" is kind of a meme, but I do honestly feel like in some ways the imperfect accuracy of moves like Pyro Ball, HJK, Gunk Shot, and Zen Headbutt does somewhat limit Cinderace's effectiveness and consistency. This is exacerbated by the fact that Cinderace is pretty frail so missing a move at an inopportune time (especially HJK) can end up resulting in Cinderace being KOed, and the low PP of Pyro Ball and Gunk Shot can also be an issue over longer games. I know that none of those moves are even as inaccurate as something like Focus Blast and it may not have even been worth mentioning, but to me, the chance to miss crucial moves does make using Cinderace feel less "safe" than something like Urshifu was, just clicking Wicked Blow or CC without a second thought.

7. How do you feel about Magearna?

I'll try to be more brief about Magearna, and this may just be personal bias, but Magearna feels much more "unhealthy" to me than Cinderace does. What I feel like separates Magearna from Cinderace is that Magearna has greater versatility in the sets it can run, has fewer safe switch-ins, and can more easily win games on the spot. Hardly anything in the tier can safely switch into Specs Magearna with Fleur Cannon/Volt Switch/Focus Blast or Aura Sphere/Trick and trying to switch against it frequently feels like a big guessing game. I feel like it's really the combination of Volt Switch and Trick with the massive damage output of Fleur Cannon that makes Magearna so difficult to play around; you have to hope that it doesn't click Fleur Cannon against the Ground type you brought in trying to block Volt Switch but you also give up momentum or get one of your best defensive Pokemon crippled if you bring in one of the few Pokemon that can take a Specs Fleur Cannon, like Blissey or Galarian Slowking, and it clicks Volt Switch or Trick. Now Magearna obviously is fairly slow, and this makes it more difficult to bring onto the field than something faster like Cinderace, but this problem is alleviated by all of the common pivoting options. Magearna is also faster and has substantially better bulk and typing than something like Crawdaunt, which also makes bringing it into play easier.

So the Specs set may be the best Magearna set, and to me it feels kind of "unhealthy" (I keep putting this in quotations, because much like "broken" or "balanced," something being "unhealthy" is obviously subjective) in that it forces high-risk guessing games, but it's the setup sets that I dislike the most about Magearna. I understand that none of the setup sets (some combination of Shift Gear, Calm Mind, and Iron Defense, often with Stored Power and Draining Kiss or a Fighting move) are perfect and that they each have their counters, but it doesn't feel right to me how Magearna can single-handedly 6-0 teams without an answer to its specific set. I get that these setup sets are kind of more cheesy HO sets used on the ladder but they can still work in high-level games, as shown by Niko in their previous SPL game. Magearna doesn't quite 6-0 the opposing team in that game but bro fist needs to sac his Zapdos and Dragapult to it just so that it can get paralyzed and Hazed by Pex.

The sad part to me is that I do like Magearna and I think that it's an interesting and unique Pokemon. I really like AV and Scarf sets and even though they aren't really used, other specially defensive sets with Fleur Cannon/Volt Switch/Pain Split/Heal Bell are cool, although Heart Swap being cut from SS for some reason is lame. I wish that Magearna never learned Calm Mind/Shift Gear and somehow couldn't hold Specs because I find its other sets to be interesting and "balanced" parts of the tier, but it's meaningless to long for something that's impossible to be changed (and please don't get the impression that I'm advocating for some weird complex bans or anything - I'm not).

So to wrap up this overly-long and meandering post, I wanted to conclude by saying that while Cinderace and Magearna are both two of the best Pokemon in the tier, I feel like Magearna is less "healthy" and should be considered for a suspect test first. I talked a lot about Cinderace and why I hope that it remains in OU, but I still concede that Cinderace could rightfully be suspected if it appears to be too dominant or is thought to be "unhealthy" if Magearna ends up getting banned first. I also wrote a little about how I'm dubious of SS OU continuing to become an increasingly defensive tier where progress is hard to come by thanks to Heavy Duty Boots, Regenerator, and Teleport, but much of that was contemplating potential future metagames and may not be valuable. Again, I also don't think that SS OU being generally a slow and defensive meta is inherently a bad thing, since I enjoy defensive playstyles and I'm not one of those users that irrationally hates stall, but my point was more that I find Cinderace to be an important and varied offensive presence in the tier. I'm not too sure how this post will come across, but I was attempting to contrast that while I find Magearna and Cinderace to both be top threats in the meta, I personally find Cinderace's inclusion far more tolerable than Magearna's. Thanks to anyone who read/skimmed this over and take care everyone!
 
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AM

is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
LCPL Champion
Snip

Here are the usual questions:

1. Are there any increases/decreases that you're enjoying or are unhappy with?
2. What are your favorite sets/moves to use on the above mons?
3. Are there any new moves/sets you've been using that have been performing well?
4. Do you have any predictions for what may increase or decrease in the next few weeks?
5. Are there any mons you could see rising to OU next month?
6. How do you feel about Cinderace?
7. How do you feel about Magearna?
8. Are there any mons you believe are overrated or underrated in the current metagame?
9. What is your favorite defensive core to use?
10. What is your favorite offensive core to use?

Hope you all had a wonderful January and I hope you all enjoy February even more :)
1. Broken item HDB making practically Magic Guard Volt-Turners and 200 turn+ games because of nonsense HDB Regen Teleport makes tier trash. It's only enjoyable building playing with pals otherwise tier toilet, ready for DPP remakes end of year and hopefully Gliscor to be freed.
2. Snipped part
3. Redacted until Spectrier is banned.
4. OU will only be RegenSpam, Dark Offense to counterteam RegenSpam, Sand, Volt-Turn, or Stall with a couple of shaky balances here and there. I dont think tier will really evolve much at least in a positive manner due to too many unhealthy components and matchup fishing.
5. Kyurem
6. Broken
7. Broken
8. Heatran - overrated, Tapu Bulu- Underrated
9. Anything with Regen HDB cause thats all you need (not being sarcastic here or any of the above comments fyi).
10. Mag/Cinderace cause broken.

You to.
 
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Zneon

uh oh
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2. What are your favorite sets/moves to use on the above mons?

For Hydreigon I started to use more offensively oriented sets, like 3 attacks + Roost and I feel offensive sets for this Pokemon have so much room to grow as well once Spectrier gets banned, since with Spectrier in the metagame right now Hydreigon is pretty handicapped in its potential. Draco Meteor / Dark Pulse / Earth Power / Roost is what I've been using the most on Hydreigon after the usage it's been seeing in SPL and I don't think it's amazing specifically because of Spectrier being in the tier.

4. Do you have any predictions for what may increase or decrease in the next few weeks?

I feel this is pretty easy to see but if Spectrier gets banned (which it has a high chance of getting banned but can't be so sure), then other offensive Ghost-types are going to surge up in usage especially Dragapult since it's always been a good Pokemon in my opinion and Spectrier leaving will only make it better. Blacephalon also since at the moment, it's pretty much outclassed by Spectrier in every single aspect and its will open up Blacephalon usage as well. Aegislash has quite a few good positives attributes like its defensive typing and offensive presence with how hard it hits naturally, and Substitute sets with Gengar potentially opening up.


Pokemon like these two are going to definitely decrease in usage if Spectrier gets banned. Mandibuzz especially, now I don't think it will get too much worse necessarily because it's pretty tight in terms of move choices, but Mandibuzz's main niche is to check Spectrier which it completely fails at by the way most of the time, and with it gone I feel Mandibuzz is going to mostly be shafted away for Zapdos or Tornadus-T. Tyranitar I feel has a chance of dropping in usage however I feel more Tyranitar sets may open up and Tyranitar doesn't really see that much usage to begin with outside of Sand teams, I feel Choice Band may open up much more with Spectrier gone and that will be great given how insufferably and painfully passive its SpDef set truly is.

8. Are there any mons you believe are overrated or underrated in the current metagame?
I don't think there's any overrated Pokemon to really talk about so I'm going to talk about underrated.


I feel Galarian Zapdos is a fairly underrated Pokemon in my eyes and definitely deserves some attention. I don't find it to be great necessarily but I feel its pretty potent with some support, it's able to force out quite a few good Pokemon in the metagame like Hydreigon, Heatran and Rillaboom and it hits ridiculously hard. Its STAB combination is very potent, hitting a large portion of the tier at least neutrally and combined with its Speed, power and high BP moves you got a mon that is very hard to switch into. Another thing is that little support like Knock Off, Spikes and especially Future Sight can make Galarian Zapdos even harder to switch into. Just a really good Pokemon all-around and deserves some more recognision.


Kyurem is a monster and that Pokemon I feel people should use much more. Substitute sets has a lot of room of growth and exploration, Sub + Icicle Spear, Sub + DD, Sub + Roost etc. This mon has quite a lot of options and Choice Specs is an absolute nuke to almost anything.

9. What is your favorite defensive core to use?

Slowbro and Galarian Slowking is such a great defensive core man. They open up so many doors for each other while also covering their weaknesses. Slowbro gets annihilated by stuff like Magearna and Tapu Lele, which Galarian Slowking completely stuffs out, meanwhile Slowbro eats hits from Cinderace and Landorus-T which Galarian Slowking can struggle with, and Slowbro can afford Rocky Helmet because Galarian Slowking absorbs Toxic Spikes. Regenerator cores are insane and this one in particular truly lives up to that. Not much to say but this one is just really good and definitely my favourite one to use.

10. What is your favorite offensive core to use?

This is easily my favourite but most because of how broken the core is if anything. Cinderace doesn't have that many defensive answers, Magearna also doesn't have that many defensive answers, how about we pair them together? This is definitely the best offensive core in my opinion because of how they can easily cause a vortex of momentum for the player using it. Why? They just threaten and force out the Pokemon that one of them struggles with and the other beats, and vice versa, this always forces switches, and because of that it just consistently gives momentum to the player who uses it.

Hope you all had a wonderful January and I hope you all enjoy February even more :)
Thanks! I hope you have a great day and a great month too! :blobthumbsup:
 
1. Are there any increases/decreases that you're enjoying or are unhappy with?
I'm sad to see that Zapdos-G didnt make the cut.

2. What are your favorite sets/moves to use on the above mons?
sub disable Spectrier
Spectrier @ Leftovers
Ability: Grim Neigh
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Disable

3. Are there any new moves/sets you've been using that have been performing well?
I used ice beam tauros which did well in 1500s Electro ball on regieleki which 3HKO's ferrothorn without chip

5. Are there any mons you could see rising to OU next month?
Victini and bl ghosts because spectrier's most likely going to get banned

6. How do you feel about Cinderace?
It's annoying to deal with if you don't have any defensive answer to it. But I think it isn't broken just because their are a lot of offensive checks to it.

7. How do you feel about Magearna?
It's broken because it ends games so easily with screens and policy and is an amazing breaker with specs.

8. Are there any mons you believe are overrated or underrated in the current metagame?
Zarude is slept on due to its 4x bug weakness. It can easily bulk up on stuff like ferrothorn and it has an amazing speed tier.

9. What is your favorite defensive core to use?
Corvinight + Heatran
They cover a lot of their weaknesses

10. What is your favorite offensive core to use?
Spectrier + Kartana
they hit really hard and because they deal with each others counters.


[/QUOTE]
 
I've seen a lot of people here thinking that banning spectrier will unleash a host of ghost types on the tier, and I'm not so sure. But I do want to break things down a bit here and talk about all of them individually(pult,aegi,gengar,blace).

1. dragapult. I don't really get why people are trying to show it like spectrier is totally eclipsing dragapult and showing it out of the meta, when to me it seems is spectrier is a decently large chunk of why pult is currently good(so basically the exact opposite of spectrier forcing it out, its giving it a place in the meta). so spectrier is a very fast ghost that loves to sub up. who better to check that than an even faster ghost who can OHKO it with a specs ghost ball, or cripple it with a twave from its annoyer set, and who also doesn't give a hoot about subs. The only safe set for spectrier is scarf, and it's not even close to being the most popular. So in conclusion I see 2 options if spectrier is banned: pult drops in usage because the the big threat it's checking is gone, or people continue using it on inertia because using it to check spectrier gave them a reason to say, hey, this mon is pretty good after all!

2. gengar. gengar is in that weird speed bracket that it's fast, but its not REALLY fast, and with a decent amount of knock off users that are even faster than him like zera or torn-t it might have a difficult time staying alive. Also as much as people say that spectrier just outclasses it, I don't really think they even share the exact same role, as spectrier is that guy that will sweep once the blissey is gone, but gengar with has better tools to do the initial breaking itself with focus blast, encore, tricking black sludges or choice items and myriad other stallbreaking antics. Theres also a decent chance that dragapult will just victimize gengar in exactly the same way as spectrier.

3. blacephalon. blacephalon is in that weird speed bracket that it's fast, but its not REALLY fast, and with a decent amount of knock off users that are even faster than him like zera or torn-t it might have a difficult time staying alive.
Theres also a decent chance that dragapult will just victimize blacephalon in exactly the same way as spectrier. (I did just copy paste several lines to prove a point). It does have trick and some strong fire moves, but there is a decent amount of waters running around, some even with knock so the fire coverage doesn't help me much (it does at least help with resisting cinderace tho).

4. aegislash. Crown tundra dropped a lot of monstrously powerful ground type attackers (most importantly for OU the trifecta of chomp/lando/nidoking), which make life a lot harder for it than it was previously, also cinderace is no longer banned, so it has to face a lot of different and extremely scary super effective attackers that it didn't have to pre crown tundra, and I think it just can't keep up. It's also slow as a rock and frail in blade form, so unless it's using a weaker hitting shadow sneak physical set its ridiculously slow for an offensive mon which can be a problem

TLDR; I think people are overestimating how much spectrier is pushing the ghosts down; dragapult actually likes having spectrier in the meta, and the other 3 aren't good enough on their own merits IMO and don't need spectrier to push them out (sorry ghost types, try a gen where knock off isn't the most spammed move in the game)
 

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