Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

dragapult. I don't really get why people are trying to show it like spectrier is totally eclipsing dragapult and showing it out of the meta, when to me it seems is spectrier is a decently large chunk of why pult is currently good(so basically the exact opposite of spectrier forcing it out, its giving it a place in the meta). so spectrier is a very fast ghost that loves to sub up. who better to check that than an even faster ghost who can OHKO it with a specs ghost ball, or cripple it with a twave from its annoyer set, and who also doesn't give a hoot about subs. The only safe set for spectrier is scarf, and it's not even close to being the most popular. So in conclusion I see 2 options if spectrier is banned: pult drops in usage because the the big threat it's checking is gone, or people continue using it on inertia because using it to check spectrier gave them a reason to say, hey, this mon is pretty good after all!
Dragapult isn't just used because of Spectrier. Look at it this way: everyone in this thread is predicting that Mandibuzz and Blissey usage will drop after Spectrier leaves. Tell me, what else beats Dragapult, apart from these two? Well, let's see...

Toxapex: 2HKOed after burn and rocks, and its usage is predicted to go down anyways.
Spdef Clef: 2HKOed by specs Hex, but idk are people using this thing?
Heatran: No recovery, hates paralysis.
Glowking: decent against specs sets to scout, but once you get hit by a shadow ball you gotta have a switch in.
Corviknight: burn
Magearna: 2HKOed by boosted Hex, and auto-win screens sets hate paralysis.
Ttar: same deal with Spectrier: chipped down and dies.

Dragapult's Specs and boots sets are looking to be super potent, and honestly I'm having trouble fitting answers to it without using Mandibuzz or Blissey (Mandibuzz is 2HKOed by specs Thunderbolt). Even now, most people have to rely on a burnt Ferrothorn, or even worse, a Hydreigon to try and deal with this thing. At team preview, it's mostly just hoping that it's not the worse of wisp/twave, or else you often have to fight a huge uphill battle against an annoying, undying speedster. It gets to pick what it beats based on the choice of wisp, twave, or specs, while also functioning as an excellent speed control option. What more can I say?
 
Dragapult isn't just used because of Spectrier. Look at it this way: everyone in this thread is predicting that Mandibuzz and Blissey usage will drop after Spectrier leaves. Tell me, what else beats Dragapult, apart from these two? Well, let's see...

Toxapex: 2HKOed after burn and rocks, and its usage is predicted to go down anyways.
Spdef Clef: 2HKOed by specs Hex, but idk are people using this thing?
Heatran: No recovery, hates paralysis.
Glowking: decent against specs sets to scout, but once you get hit by a shadow ball you gotta have a switch in.
Corviknight: burn
Magearna: 2HKOed by boosted Hex, and auto-win screens sets hate paralysis.
Ttar: same deal with Spectrier: chipped down and dies.

Dragapult's Specs and boots sets are looking to be super potent, and honestly I'm having trouble fitting answers to it without using Mandibuzz or Blissey (Mandibuzz is 2HKOed by specs Thunderbolt). Even now, most people have to rely on a burnt Ferrothorn, or even worse, a Hydreigon to try and deal with this thing. At team preview, it's mostly just hoping that it's not the worse of wisp/twave, or else you often have to fight a huge uphill battle against an annoying, undying speedster. It gets to pick what it beats based on the choice of wisp, twave, or specs, while also functioning as an excellent speed control option. What more can I say?
yh that's what I meant to say, and is covered by that oh look this mon is pretty good argument and that it has a possibility to stay in the meta, it's just that being obviously at good checking spectrier is what gave it that jump start that people started using it, since it was good for a long time but no one used it till about the last week(because obviously spectrier is better in every way, except not as we see), as the desperation and arguments about spectrier reached their peak.
I'm sorry, my post was meant more in relation to what people think spectrier does to other ghost types(and how it's not really true IMO, since theres only categories of not pushed out by spectrier(dragapult), and too bad for OU even not taking spectrier into account(other three)). I don't really want to start theorymoning full future metas here especially with stuff as volatile as these dragapult matchups, especially since a lot of them heavily depend on how the game plays out, and can easily go either way with small moveslot changes on either mon or play difference, or even hax, and with that in mind I set out those options for dragapult(which did include either it staying the same, maybe getting better usage but possibly also saying its not out of the question for usage to drop, because its really hard to predict what will happen)
 
4. Do you have any predictions for what may increase or decrease in the next few weeks?
I really think the future of the meta will be determined if :spectrier: is banned or not. If so, other Ghost-types will be enabled to shine, and among those, I think :gengar: and :aegislash: may increase their usage because they have ways to play around of Dark-types with Focus Blast and Close Combat, respectively. :dragapult: may continue increasing as its main sets in Specs and HDB T-Wave/WoW + Hex are great as breaker, speed control and general support.
:tyranitar: will drop as a rock because almost its only use right now is :spectrier: countermeasure in sand teams, and without the horse, people will use :hippowdon: as their sand setter because it is a solid counter for :cinderace:, checks Electric-types and can form solid cores with other sand defensive staples like :toxapex:, :corviknight: and :tangrowth:. Also it can lure non-metal birds and :landorus-therian: to poison them with Toxic, helping sand sweepers in the long run.

6. How do you feel about Cinderace?
7. How do you feel about Magearna?
I really think both deserve at least a suspect test. I think :magearna: is way more problematic than :cinderace:, but both are very annoying to deal with. :cinderace: has defensive counterplay, but it can pivot so freely because of HDB negating hazard damage, which is one the best ways to deal with offensive pivots. Because of that free pivot capabilities alongside with its threatening coverage and good speed, the non-Cinderace user will be behind in momentum. While it has checks, a few of those checks are afraid of Gunk Shot poison, which allows :cinderace: beat them in the long run. Finally, for me, the most annoying thing about this mon is that forces everything to run Rocky Helmet because it is the only way of punishing its U-turn spam.
:magearna: with its absurd amount of sets and coverage, it chooses what it beats, meaning that you can support its sweeper sets way more easy than other mons. Also, Specs has narrow defensive counterplay, and many defensive pokemon are very scared of Trick shenanigans or being chipped with Volt Switch, which in the end makes it very oppresive Pokemon to face.
All-in-all, I think both pokemon should be further evaluated because I trully believe they are problematic for the metagame.

Hope you all had a wonderful January and I hope you all enjoy February even more :)
You too! Have a great month ^^
 
1. I liked that Dragapult grow in usage, it's a good mon
2. I use SubCurse Regirock with EQ and Ice Punch, using Leftvores for longevity, It can be a pretty nice check to Lando T because of Ice Punch and can setup in things like Blissey or Ferrothorn and grab some KOs on the beggining of the game
3. Silk Scarf Quick Attack Scizor is doing decent, as a relatively new player on this tier trying some fun stuff(I'm not a pro so I can be wrong), because of steel resists so I can Quick Attack the mons with steel resist when Bullet Punch everything else and U-turn on things like Heatran who can check both Bullet Punch and Quick Attack, boosting attack with Swords Dance to grab KOs, and having some Sp.Def investiment to tank Special Attackers since SubCurse Regirock main weakness is Special Attackers and Speed, that's basically it, most people find dumb having Quick Attack when you can have Bullet Punch, but having the two is good to grab KOs on things like Cinderace that mostly check Bullet Punch
4. I have a prediction that Kyurem will be higher on usage, it's being a great mon with great coverage that can check Toxapex with STAB, probably is gonna be more usable with the time, and Ttar and Mandibuzz will certainly drop because Spectrier is gonna be banned most for sure, and I'm pretty sure that Exploud and CurseLax will be never seen on the tier after the ban of Spectrier, and Dragapult is going have a trade losing the purpose of checking Spectrier but winning because now he can use his physical set more well and is going not to be outclassed in power by Spectrier
5. Kyurem is a mon that will rise to OU It's good and is having some usage, I already posted the why so yea, Idk others mon for sure
6. I don't think that is broken, but certainly a problem since it can use u-turn without get chipped by hazards and have a good speed tier
7. It's certainly broken and versatile, Magearna is a nuke with specs set, can easily setup due to bulk, and with screens is potentially end game, idk why Magearna is not banned honestly, it's just broken, and the fact that it has a AMAZING defensive type make things even worse, just suspect Magearna
8. Overrated idk, but underrated I have 2:
Raikou is such a underrated Pokémon, it has great coverage with Scald, Shadow Ball, Volt Switch and Aura Sphere, has a amazing speed control with choice scarf, and can burst most of the meta, I think that Raikou is a good choice on your team
Tauros is another underrated Pokémon, with his 110 speed and STAB Double Edge more the fact that it has 100 attack, make him decent with Choice Band, and it has good coverage, with Throat Chop to deal with ghosts, EQ is always good, Close Combat can counter Heatran Air Baloon and dark types, also CurseLax(even that this only exist because of Spectrier) and it has a amazing ability that is Intimidate, but a Scarf set can be even better, making your speed control better and countering Tapu Koko, Cinderace and Dragapult, and Spectrier, you can use Sheer Force as your ability to even better counter Dragapult, and as always Double Edge is just a good stab move, hits like a Truck
9. I like to use Registeel with Toxic/Stealth Rock/Protect/Seismic Toss is good to setup hazard and can do damage very well and having a ground immunity with Air Baloon so I can safely switch into EQ without any problem, Assault Vest Ttar is one of defensive core that I like it can safely take super effective hits(as long they are special atk) and can chip damage with Sand and use moves like Crunch, Iron Head, EQ and Stone Edge or even Fire Punch to destroy Ferrothorn and Scizor
10. I like to use Regirock/Scizor/Raikou/Tauros combo, I have fun with it
Thank you for wishing a good month, you too TPP
 
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1. I liked that Dragapult grow in usage, it's a good mon
2. I use SubCurse Regirock with EQ and Ice Punch, using Leftvores for longevity, It can be a pretty nice check to Lando T because of Ice Punch and can setup in things like Blissey or Ferrothorn and grab some KOs on the beggining of the game
3. Silk Scarf Quick Attack Scizor is doing decent, as a relatively new player on this tier trying some fun stuff(I'm not a pro so I can be wrong), because of steel resists so I can Quick Attack the mons with steel resist when Bullet Punch everything else and U-turn on things like Heatran who can check both Bullet Punch and Quick Attack, boosting attack with Swords Dance to grab KOs, and having some Sp.Def investiment to tank Special Attackers since SubCurse Regirock main weakness is Special Attackers and Speed, that's basically it, most people find dumb having Quick Attack when you can have Bullet Punch, but having the two is good to grab KOs on things like Cinderace that mostly check Bullet Punch
4. I have a prediction that Kyurem will be higher on usage, it's being a great mon with great coverage that can check Toxapex with STAB, probably is gonna be more usable with the time, and Ttar and Mandibuzz will certainly drop because Spectrier is gonna be banned most for sure, and I'm pretty sure that Exploud and CurseLax will be never seen on the tier after the ban of Spectrier, and Dragapult is going have a trade losing the purpose of checking Spectrier but winning because now he can use his physical set more well and is going not to be outclassed in power by Spectrier
5. Kyurem is a mon that will rise to OU It's good and is having some usage, I already posted the why so yea, Idk others mon for sure
6. I don't think that is broken, but certainly a problem since it can use u-turn without get chipped by hazards and have a good speed tier
7. It's certainly broken and versatile, Magearna is a nuke with specs set, can easily setup due to bulk, and with screens is potentially end game, idk why Magearna is not banned honestly, it's just broken, and the fact that it has a AMAZING defensive type make things even worse, just suspect Magearna
8. Overrated idk, but underrated I have 2:
Raikou is such a underrated Pokémon, it has great coverage with Scald, Shadow Ball, Volt Switch and Aura Sphere, has a amazing speed control with choice scarf, and can burst most of the meta, I think that Raikou is a good choice on your team
Tauros is another underrated Pokémon, with his 110 speed and STAB Double Edge more the fact that it has 100 attack, make him decent with Choice Band, and it has good coverage, with Throat Chop to deal with ghosts, EQ is always good, Close Combat can counter Heatran Air Baloon and dark types, also CurseLax(even that this only exist because of Spectrier) and it has a amazing ability that is Intimidate, but a Scarf set can be even better, making your speed control better and countering Tapu Koko, Cinderace and Dragapult, and Spectrier, you can use Sheer Force as your ability to even better counter Dragapult, and as always Double Edge is just a good stab move, hits like a Truck
9. I like to use Registeel with Toxic/Stealth Rock/Protect/Seismic Toss is good to setup hazard and can do damage very well and having a ground immunity with Air Baloon so I can safely switch into EQ without any problem, Assault Vest Ttar is one of defensive core that I like it can safely take super effective hits(as long they are special atk) and can chip damage with Sand and use moves like Crunch, Iron Head, EQ and Stone Edge or even Fire Punch to destroy Ferrothorn and Scizor
10. I like to use Regirock/Scizor/Raikou/Tauros combo, I have fun with it
Thank you for wishing a good month, you too TPP
There's viable alternatives to pretty much all of those. Scizor maybe you could make an argument for on some teams, but as for the rest...

I mean, there's nothing that plays EXACTLY like any of the mons you've listed, but there are things that get pretty close. I'll go through the things you've mentioned and give advice on each of them, as you seem to be new and kind of naive about how things here work. Frankly, I feel like not much can help other than experience (or following the forums way too closely), but I'll do my best.
  • Regirock is bad. Its stats look pretty nice, sure, but that is not all that makes a Pokemon good. It wants to be a wall, but doesn't really have the tools to do the job properly, and Rock isn't a very good typing for most mons. The only consistently OU-viable Rock type in the entire series is Tyranitar, which has so much going for it that its mediocre typing doesn't really matter. Stats that let it run whatever it wants, excellent bulk, an ability that compliments that and can even help its teammates out, a large movepool that allows it to take on many different roles... I'm getting off topic. The only downsides it really has are a lack of recovery (which it doesn't sorely miss), low speed, and a typing that means you'll have to think carefully about its weaknesses while building. Regirock, on the other hand, doesn't have a lot of good moves, goes down easily to special hits, doesn't have a secondary typing, has no recovery... I could go on. There aren't really any OU viable "wall" mons like it, but mons that just sit there and soak up hits have to be REALLY good at their job in order to be useful.
  • I... you could just use a choice banded Scizor and it would do more or less the same thing? Items that increase the power of moves of a specific type aren't really used outside of setup-reliant mons that don't want to lose HP, don't want to be locked into a move, and don't run lefties for some reason.
  • Raikou isn't bad per se, but it doesn't have any standout traits that make it worth using. Tapu Koko has the same typing and can do a lot more for a team, but since I rarely actually play Showdown I don't know what would feel similar to it.
  • Tauros... come on. There are things that have objectively better stats than it in the tier. Just take a look for yourself.
  • Registeel isn't very good for reasons similar to those I gave for Regirock, so I'd recommend using Ferrothorn instead. It has a ton of great qualities and will pull its weight on almost any team. Unless you recklessly switch it into a Fire move. In that case, it won't be able to pull any weight because it will be a pile of ashes.
 
1. Are there any increases/decreases that you're enjoying or are unhappy with?
Honestly i like the fact that Dragapult has increased cuz I think its great overall and Im surprised it isnt used more

2. What are your favorite sets/moves to use on the above mons?
I really like Specs Dragapult overall

3. Are there any new moves/sets you've been using that have been performing well?
Im finding that Defog Hydreigon has been overall a decent pick on one of my teams, utility with a decent amount of power.

4. Do you have any predictions for what may increase or decrease in the next few weeks?
Id assume Dragapult will somewhat fill the void that Spectrier leaves if it gets banned. Aegislash I think will also rise if there is a Spectrier banning. If there is no banning, Mandibuzz and Blissey will rise because theyre 2 of the only pokemon I can think of right now that can somewhat tank Spectrier's hits.

5. Are there any mons you could see rising to OU next month?
If there is a Spectrier banning, Aegislash I feel will rise from BL. I also think Alakazam could return to OU.

6. How do you feel about Cinderace?
I personally really like Cinderace. I think its a solid pokemon and that it is an offensive powerhouse. Libero is great and could potentially be gamebreaking but I dont see Cinderace as a massive problem. It has massive 4MSS, since it almost mandatorily needs to run both Pyro Ball and U-Turn.

7. How do you feel about Magearna?
I think it is a great mon and i do see that it can be a problem to face. i dont know if its banworthy but I do feel like it can run away with games under the right circumstances.

8. Are there any mons you believe are overrated or underrated in the current metagame?
None that are currently overrated, but I feel like Zeraora is kind of being slept on right now (I may be wrong but this is my opinion). The fact that it blocks Volt Switch along with its offenses and speed I think would be at home in OU.

9. What is your favorite defensive core to use?
Dont really have a good defensive core that I use that often.

10. What is your favorite offensive core to use?
Im really liking the Cinderace + Magearna offensive core
 
There's viable alternatives to pretty much all of those. Scizor maybe you could make an argument for on some teams, but as for the rest...

I mean, there's nothing that plays EXACTLY like any of the mons you've listed, but there are things that get pretty close. I'll go through the things you've mentioned and give advice on each of them, as you seem to be new and kind of naive about how things here work. Frankly, I feel like not much can help other than experience (or following the forums way too closely), but I'll do my best.
  • Regirock is bad. Its stats look pretty nice, sure, but that is not all that makes a Pokemon good. It wants to be a wall, but doesn't really have the tools to do the job properly, and Rock isn't a very good typing for most mons. The only consistently OU-viable Rock type in the entire series is Tyranitar, which has so much going for it that its mediocre typing doesn't really matter. Stats that let it run whatever it wants, excellent bulk, an ability that compliments that and can even help its teammates out, a large movepool that allows it to take on many different roles... I'm getting off topic. The only downsides it really has are a lack of recovery (which it doesn't sorely miss), low speed, and a typing that means you'll have to think carefully about its weaknesses while building. Regirock, on the other hand, doesn't have a lot of good moves, goes down easily to special hits, doesn't have a secondary typing, has no recovery... I could go on. There aren't really any OU viable "wall" mons like it, but mons that just sit there and soak up hits have to be REALLY good at their job in order to be useful.
  • I... you could just use a choice banded Scizor and it would do more or less the same thing? Items that increase the power of moves of a specific type aren't really used outside of setup-reliant mons that don't want to lose HP, don't want to be locked into a move, and don't run lefties for some reason.
  • Raikou isn't bad per se, but it doesn't have any standout traits that make it worth using. Tapu Koko has the same typing and can do a lot more for a team, but since I rarely actually play Showdown I don't know what would feel similar to it.
  • Tauros... come on. There are things that have objectively better stats than it in the tier. Just take a look for yourself.
  • Registeel isn't very good for reasons similar to those I gave for Regirock, so I'd recommend using Ferrothorn instead. It has a ton of great qualities and will pull its weight on almost any team. Unless you recklessly switch it into a Fire move. In that case, it won't be able to pull any weight because it will be a pile of ashes.
Hey, Thanks for some advice but I first need to say about somethings
Yes, Regirock is bad, There is many special attackers on the tier and it don't can outspeed nearly everything, I just have fun using it, I don't use Regirock as a wall, I use mainly a SubCurse set, even it don't too good either
About Scizor
You ignore a feature of Choice Band, it locks you in a move, why it matters? You can't boost with Swords Dance and you're gonna need to switch a lot since it, and get chipped by hazards(not too much, but still getting chipped), and Cinderace can still check a Banded Bullet Punch and hit with a Pyro Ball, boosting attack with Swords Dance make Scizor more threatning, yes Silk Scarf is not that useful of a item, but it's better than getting locked and switching out a lot
The second thing that you ignore is Impredicatability.
Since pretty much you're not gonna expect a Quick Attack Scizor, making the opponent confuse to deal with it and don't having good answers on general, Impredicatability can decide games because the player is not ready for that thing, Let's just give a example:
Pachirisu Champion of VCG
I know that I'm off topic with this thing, but why it win even that the pokémon sucks?
Simple, Impredicatability, people are not ready to deal with Pachirisu, so they lose because of confusion and no ideia to do against it
About Raikou
I said that Raikou is underrated because of his speed control, but yes Tapu Koko outclassed it, I just feel that Raikou is better than you think and you should try use it
About Tauros
Just because of his stats don't mean that He's bad
I said about Scarf and Band Tauros and why they are decent, yes it sucks against walls, but It's really useful against ofensive mons because they're not gonna run bulky, not because Tauros is a glass cannon on general don't mean that he's bad, and it has a amazing ability like I said, but still there obviously mons that outclasses because this thing is more a niche
Registeel is not a wall like Ferro, yes it gotta outclassed by it a lot, but it's not a bad wall either
I prefer using niche because I don't like using the same strat over and over it gets boring and it's really good when it works
Hope you have a great say, cya
Sorry for the late response
 
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Hey, Thanks for some advice but I first need to say about somethings
Yes, Regirock is bad, There is many special attackers on the tier and it don't can outspeed nearly everything, I just have fun using it, I don't use Regirock as a wall, I use mainly a SubCurse set, even it don't too good either
About Scizor
You ignore a feature of Choice Band, it locks you in a move, why it matters? You can't boost with Swords Dance and you're gonna need to switch a lot since it, and get chipped by hazards(not too much, but still getting chipped), and Cinderace can still check a Banded Bullet Punch and hit with a Pyro Ball, boosting attack with Swords Dance make Scizor more threatning, yes Silk Scarf is not that useful of a item, but it's better than getting locked and switching out a lot
The second thing that you ignore is Impredicatability.
Since pretty much you're not gonna expect a Quick Attack Scizor, making the opponent confuse to deal with it and don't having good answers on general, Impredicatability can decide games because the player is not ready for that thing, Let's just give a example:
Pachirisu Champion of VCG
I know that I'm off topic with this thing, but why it win even that the pokémon sucks?
Simple, Impredicatability, people are not ready to deal with Pachirisu, so they lose because of confusion and no ideia to do against it
About Raikou
I said that Raikou is underrated because of his speed control, but yes Tapu Koko outclassed it, I just feel that Raikou is better than you think and you should try use it
About Tauros
Just because of his stats don't mean that He's bad
I said about Scarf and Band Tauros and why they are decent, yes it sucks against walls, but It's really useful against ofensive mons because they're not gonna run bulky, not because Tauros is a glass cannon on general don't mean that he's bad, and it has a amazing ability like I said, but still there obviously mons that outclasses because this thing is more a Nice
Registeel is not a wall like Ferro, yes it gotta outclassed by it a lot, but it's not a bad wall either
I prefer using niche because I don't like using the same strat over and over it gets boring and it's really good when it works
Hope you have a great say, cya
Sorry for the late response
Hey, if you have fun using a set, use it! Don't let me or anyone telling you something is bad stop you from using it. That being said, some of the stuff you are using isn't really optimal.

Thing with Scizor is that it has U-turn, which means it can deal damage and switch out in the same turn, which means even if the opponent does have an answer like Cinderace or Heatran, you'll get to deal damage without losing momentum. Choice Band is best here to make sure that U-turn does the maximum damage, and also powers up Bullet Punch for when you've U-turned the opposing Cinderace to the point where it can't survive one. Quick Attack in general may be surprising, but it's power is so weak and used against so little mons that it's likely that the opponent will have an answer for it anyways. Something like Sand Tomb Scizor may have more of the surprise factor you're looking for, since it can deal major damage to Toxapex and Heatran when powered up by Technician.

I'm by no means a VGC expert, but I've heard from some of my VGC friends that when Pachirisu was used to win the finals, it was by no means a complete surprise pick. Many top players knew about its Follow Me + Nuzzle + Super Fang antics, just many didn't choose to bring it since it wasn't the perfect fit for their team. It actually had a niche in the metagame. If a pokemon is bad, then it's bad, plain and simple. If it's like Sand Tomb Scizor, where it may not always be good but can surprise the opponent by taking advantage of the fact they don't expect it, then it's a gimmick. Sand Tomb Scizor is a gimmick. Quick Attack Silk Scarf Scizor is not a gimmick. It's only useful when the opposing Cinderace has 36-42%, compared to Choice Band Bullet Punch being great against everything else.

Tauros may be good against offensive mons, but there are pokemon that are much better at anti-offense like Hawlucha, or Rillaboom, or Scizor, or Dragapult, or Scarf Landorus-T or.... you get what I mean. Tauros often gets locked into normal moves, which suck because it lets in ghost types for free, too.

Registeel isn't a bad wall per say, but if something like Registeel is entirely outclassed by Ferrothorn (which it is), then it's considered bad, since there is very little reason you'd use Registeel over Ferrothorn in a competitive environment. Even so, Registeel can still often put in work, since it is like a mini-ferrothorn, just Ferrothorn can also do what it does but better.

Just a clarification: Niche means that that pokemon does something others do not. As far as I know, Registeel does not have a niche. Using Registeel over Ferrothorn is like using Raboot over Cinderace. Raboot may still put in work, but there's no guarantee it'll do anything that Cinderace can't.

If you hadn't noticed, this is a metagame discussion. If you're interested in interesting tech and using maybe sub-optimal mons to great effect in OU, I'd recommend the Heat thread, which is this one. It sounds like you'd like it, since you get bored by using the most optimal strats.
 
Hey, if you have fun using a set, use it! Don't let me or anyone telling you something is bad stop you from using it. That being said, some of the stuff you are using isn't really optimal.

Thing with Scizor is that it has U-turn, which means it can deal damage and switch out in the same turn, which means even if the opponent does have an answer like Cinderace or Heatran, you'll get to deal damage without losing momentum. Choice Band is best here to make sure that U-turn does the maximum damage, and also powers up Bullet Punch for when you've U-turned the opposing Cinderace to the point where it can't survive one. Quick Attack in general may be surprising, but it's power is so weak and used against so little mons that it's likely that the opponent will have an answer for it anyways. Something like Sand Tomb Scizor may have more of the surprise factor you're looking for, since it can deal major damage to Toxapex and Heatran when powered up by Technician.

I'm by no means a VGC expert, but I've heard from some of my VGC friends that when Pachirisu was used to win the finals, it was by no means a complete surprise pick. Many top players knew about its Follow Me + Nuzzle + Super Fang antics, just many didn't choose to bring it since it wasn't the perfect fit for their team. It actually had a niche in the metagame. If a pokemon is bad, then it's bad, plain and simple. If it's like Sand Tomb Scizor, where it may not always be good but can surprise the opponent by taking advantage of the fact they don't expect it, then it's a gimmick. Sand Tomb Scizor is a gimmick. Quick Attack Silk Scarf Scizor is not a gimmick. It's only useful when the opposing Cinderace has 36-42%, compared to Choice Band Bullet Punch being great against everything else.

Tauros may be good against offensive mons, but there are pokemon that are much better at anti-offense like Hawlucha, or Rillaboom, or Scizor, or Dragapult, or Scarf Landorus-T or.... you get what I mean. Tauros often gets locked into normal moves, which suck because it lets in ghost types for free, too.

Registeel isn't a bad wall per say, but if something like Registeel is entirely outclassed by Ferrothorn (which it is), then it's considered bad, since there is very little reason you'd use Registeel over Ferrothorn in a competitive environment. Even so, Registeel can still often put in work, since it is like a mini-ferrothorn, just Ferrothorn can also do what it does but better.

Just a clarification: Niche means that that pokemon does something others do not. As far as I know, Registeel does not have a niche. Using Registeel over Ferrothorn is like using Raboot over Cinderace. Raboot may still put in work, but there's no guarantee it'll do anything that Cinderace can't.

If you hadn't noticed, this is a metagame discussion. If you're interested in interesting tech and using maybe sub-optimal mons to great effect in OU, I'd recommend the Heat thread, which is this one. It sounds like you'd like it, since you get bored by using the most optimal strats.
Hey thank you for all of this
About Scizor I still think that get Swords Dance is more useful than Band U-turn, but yea it stills the point
I just start using Tauros because sometimes double edge gets 80% of damage, but I get the point, there's better options
I think that the only thing that Registeel gets of different is Block to trap some stalls mons, but pretty much outclassed by Ferro anyways
About VCG it as just a example for my point, because I dindn't know another example to it
As always thanks for the help, I was confused since I think that this was a general OU discussion thread
 
Hey thank you for all of this
About Scizor I still think that get Swords Dance is more useful than Band U-turn, but yea it stills the point
I just start using Tauros because sometimes double edge gets 80% of damage, but I get the point, there's better options
I think that the only thing that Registeel gets of different is Block to trap some stalls mons, but pretty much outclassed by Ferro anyways
About VCG it as just a example for my point, because I dindn't know another example to it
As always thanks for the help, I was confused since I think that this was a general OU discussion thread
Talking about heat mons and such in this thread is actually encouraged, just make sure that you are prepared to tell not only what it does but why we would use it over other mons in the tier.
 
Here are the usual questions:

1. Are there any increases/decreases that you're enjoying or are unhappy with?
2. What are your favorite sets/moves to use on the above mons?
3. Are there any new moves/sets you've been using that have been performing well?
4. Do you have any predictions for what may increase or decrease in the next few weeks?
5. Are there any mons you could see rising to OU next month?
6. How do you feel about Cinderace?
7. How do you feel about Magearna?
8. Are there any mons you believe are overrated or underrated in the current metagame?
9. What is your favorite defensive core to use?
10. What is your favorite offensive core to use?

Hope you all had a wonderful January and I hope you all enjoy February even more :)
I'm definitely less active than usual but come on.

1 - Unhappy with the increase of
1612465321676.png
. Personally I hate Teleport, without going into the merit of being broken or not.
Happy with the decrease of
1612465344993.png
, showing a good development of the metagame since we are not so dependent on this sick thing anymore, although obviously it is still one of the best Pokémon in the game.

2- Skip

3 - Not necessarily new, but SubRoost
1612465271521.png
is amazing on Stall teams (I use Timid, max HP and Speed). Faster than Heatran, Landorus-T, Crawdaunt, provides comfortable matchups against Rain, loves to switch in SlowTwins to consume Future Sight PP and neutralizes several Pokémon in the metagame. Freezy-Dry + Earth Power has great coverage and achieves several 2KO or even KO without any offensive investment.

4- Skip

5 -
1612465266093.png
, obviously far beyond the defensive niche that I have used, Specs and DD have their merit here.

6 -
1612465242322.png
deserves a suspect in the future. U-Turn and Pyro Ball are the only guaranteed moves. The other 2 create a high risk to check and play around. HDB and U-Turn make him almost unpunished against what his 4 moves cannot effectively achieve.

7 - While Cinderace has her item and half of the moves predictable,
1612465376723.png
is an even high risk. With a respectable bulk and perhaps the best combination of types, abuse of Dual Screens or even Rain / Grassy Terrain to remove your weaknesses and use SG / CM safely. Choice Specs is an explosion of immediate power and still punishes the opponent with Volt Switch or Trick. Perhaps it is the priority after Spectrier.

8 - Overrated
1612465402081.png
, don't get me wrong, he's a great Pokémon, but not extraordinary as he was in past generations. The need for counterplay against Volcarona (pre-dlc) and Spectrier brought it back to the surface and I'm curious to see how it will stay if Spectrier is banned.
Underrated
1612465446213.png
and
. They cannot destroy the entire metagame with the same moveset, but they are forces to be exploited. I faced a double Teleport + CB fast Melmetal during the suspect test and even a piece of my soul was destroyed together.

9 -
+ Regenerator mon (with Rocky Helmet). Hippowdon has solid and bulk recovery. The gradual damage of the sand is essential to play defensively against Boots users, like Cinderace. Regenerator does not care about this and helps to punish contact moves.

10 - Any Volt / Turn / Port.

TY U2!
 
1. I'm really glad that Clefable usage decreased a lot, but it's also weird to see that. I'm laddering a bit and i'm only seeing this mon on stall teams and that's pretty weird since this is a very usefull staple on every team.
I'm also so happy that Dragapult usage rised a lot too. Probably because he's a faster mon than Spectrier? idk

2. I LOVE the Mixed Dragon Darts + Hex dragapult set. That's one of my favorite sets rn

3. Skip

4. My prediction is Kyurem, and a lot of ghost types (Gengar, Blacephalon, and maybe Aegislash) rising. About decreases, buzzwhole will probably drop.

5. Kyurem is awesome and i'd like to see him rising to OU. All his sets, Specs, Subs 2 atks and Subs Dragon Dance.

6. Cinderace is one of the most powerfull threat in OU right now imo. It's absurdly broken with Future Sight Slowbro/King support cuz he have a very limited number of switch-ins. One of the unique ways to punish him is running Rocky Helmet to punish his pivots, since he can't be punished by Hazzards. I really feel it needs a suspect.

7. I really dislike magearna and I think it's banworthy. It has a lot of offensive power with both Setup sets or Choice items with Trick, and it's just unhealthy since it fits every single team style with an infinity variety of sets and lures. Well, I could also be wrong, since i'm not struggling that much against it, but I think that's because i've been spamming ferrothorn/cinderace on my teams.

8. Tyranitar is so bad rn, and it'll probably drop as soon as spectrier gets banned.

9. I'm using Ferrothorn + Slowbro a lot recently. But I really like teleport mons as a defensive core

10. It's not 100% offensive, but I gotta admit that Cinderace + Future Sight support is just ridiculous and unfair haha. I also like Rillaboom + Kartana and Rain offenses with Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
 
HORSE IS GONE TIME TO PARTY!!!
Now we can finally not be restriced to run only defensive spreads on darks and normals and not be seeing random normals and darks in tours an ladder. I think ttar will lose some usage and fall to uu and maybe offensive sets will be freed up on hydreigons. Blissey wont have to run shadow ball or anything like that and I personally feel that magearna should be the next suspect.
 
By removing the horse we are now one step closer to achieving true OU bird domination. Our member birds and affiliates already have infiltrated the plurality of OU and comprise 32.5% of its ranks. Now, we must only combat two of the remaining enemy bunnies and we will finally achieve the bird utopia, the dream of the flying folk, the government of the gliders, and the utter dominance of those who flap. When it comes to pokemon, the bird is truly the ideal form. Let us demonstrate this, drill peck this into the thick skulls of dissent, that although heavily nerfed in the past, in the end it will be the birds (and affiliates) who soar the VR list. Fish? Begone. Hippopotami? Unviable. Moles? Without a semblance of a niche. Monkeys? Too frail. Sea Anemones? Too passive. Bunnies? The enemies of the ruling class. Not only are birds faster, stronger, and bulkier than any other form of pokemon, but they are also considered by many to be more attractive during teambuilding and playing.

Birds to reign supreme. Bunnies to wallow in Ubers. Everything else is so stinky there's literally a "PU" next to their name at all times. Thank you for listening, and I hope you understand what must be done.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
So, now onto the next question: how is this going to affect other Pokemon?

:ss/hydreigon:
Hydreigon will almost certainly stop running specially defensive variants now that it's no longer needed to check Spectrier. It's just a worse Latias for the most part as a phat Dragon-type Defogger, though in terms of basic utility range the two aren't actually that different. Something I hated about using Hydreigon as my Ghost-type resist in the Spect metagame was that it just opened up a horrible weakness to Dragapult, so having a bit more breathing room to run alternate Ghost-type responses on offence will probably prove extremely valuable.

The biggest advantage Latias has as a bulky Dragon-type defogger is the higher base Speed, notably letting her force out offensive SR Garchomp, and noticeably better natural bulk (92/90/90 --> 80/90/130), but beyond her range of coverage is more diverse than Hydreigon, notably having access to BoltBeam, STAB Psychic/Psyshock, and utility attacks like Mystical Fire (as well as the far less noteworthy Mist Ball). Utility-wise, Hydreigon's range wasn't that bad, having access to good moves like Thunder Wave, Tailwind, U-turn, and Taunt, but it suffered from being kinda forced into running both Dark Pulse and Earth Power to do its job properly. Latias doesn't really suffer from that issue due to her better-specialised stat spread (making a lack of direct attacks much less of a problem), and her utility options are better suited to a general utility role than Hydreigon's, notably having access to Trick, Future Sight, and the extremely powerful Healing Wish over Hydreigon while sharing access to Thunder Wave and Tailwind for indirect speed control.

Offensively, Hydreigon faces heavy competition from Latios and Gengar, the former of which is just a more potent special-attacking Dragon-type between its access to Trick, better STAB combo, and higher Speed/SpA stats and the latter of which is a faster Nasty Plot breaker that doesn't need to play games around Fairy-types and Blissey. Hydreigon does have a few things going for it over Latios, namely access to Taunt, higher attack+Superpower, and more firepower on certain key coverage types (Mystical Fire --> Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Aura Sphere-->Focus Blast, 90 Atk EQ-->105 Atk EQ+Earth Power, etc.), and Nasty Plot>Calm Mind, but I would be very surprised if that's enough to salvage it when the metagame around it necessitates such awkward coverage for Hydreigon (it's one of the few 'mons in this meta that I think has REAL 4MSS—not the fake 4MSS that everyone seems to always use the term for, I mean it literally needs 7 moves if it wants to do its job properly). All in all, Hydreigon looks like it is going to struggle to carve a niche in this metagame, especially given that it can't rely on Dugtrio to trap blobs like it did towards the end of gen 6.

:ss/mandibuzz::ss/blissey:
Gonna be a bit more brief on these two 'cuz there's a lot less to unpack. In the Spectrier metagame, they were kinda pigoenholed into running suboptimal sets to not just lose to certain Substitute Spectrier sets. Now Mandibuzz is free to run a single Dark-type STAB/forgo Whirlwind in favour of something actually useful and can also afford to run a more useful EV spread. Blissey is less drastically changed than Mandibuzz, but no longer needing to run Shadow Ball relieves a lot of strain on its range of utility—Thunder Wave, Healing Wish, Stealth Rock, Toxic, Aromatherapy, etc. can now all be run alongside the combination of Seismic Toss and Teleport without needing to worry about Taunt Spectrier steamrolling you. All in all, beneficial changes. Whether Mandibuzz will get more or less popular is another matter, but I can't imagine Blissey going away anytime soon.

:ss/latios::ss/gengar:
I mentioned these when talking about Hydreigon, but they also directly benefit from the absence of Spectrier, so I'm gonna bring them up again. Latios no longer being forced out by a giant horse-shaped win button is a big improvement over what it was before. With that said, it still struggles with Magearna and Cinderace, so until those two get banned I can't imagine it being too insane. Sinking momentum versus broken Pokemon is still pretty much a death sentence for a Pokemon, even if they would otherwise probably border on being broken (just look at poor old Keldeo). Gengar is in much the same boat as Latios, albeit with a better Magearna matchup, so I won't repeat myself too much. Both of these Pokemon also dispise Dragapult, who is looking primed to retake the number-one spot in this format now that its main hyperspeed Ghost-type competition is gone. (More on that below.)

:ss/dragapult:
Dragapult is a menace. I think there are probably legitimate arguments to say that it is a broken Pokemon (though not banworthy), given its insane Speed stat, aptitude at spreading status, how tricky it is to switch on in the late-game stages, and its near-universal utility for teams. But unlike a lot of the other things that can be described as "broken," what Dragapult brings to the format is ultimately very healthy. It's a lot like (more-so past-gen) Landorus-T in that regard: very easy to plug onto teams, arguably "broken" but in a healthy capacity. Of course, Dragapult only gets better with Spectrier gone. Sure, it loses one of its niches as the Spect Killer, but in exchange, +Atk/+SpA natures are back on the table and you no longer need to justify bringing it over Spectrier. I genuinely think Dragapult may be the best Pokémon in the format right now, and I'm excited to see how its sets change with Spect gone (expecting a mix of IoA and late-stage DLC0).

:ss/tyranitar:
Tyranitar will probably still run specially defensive variants, but they will no longer be forced to carry Rest to not just crumble to Spect, and CB sets are now back on the table to act as a breaker on sandstorm teams once again. I think it is overall probably in a worse place than in the Spect meta, as its role will become less valuable, but it still has a lot of good things going for it, such as checking Heatran and Dragapult.

:ss/mew:
I know, this is a weird 'mon to bring up given it's not incredible, but it's probably better now that it's not free real estate for Spectrier, so I thought I'd mention it anyway. Mew is very versatile, and especially defensively it has a lot of things going for it: access to Spikes and Stealth Rock make it a versatile hazard layer; access to Defog makes it a decent hazard clearer. access to Teleport, Will-O-Wisp, Transform, Knock Off, and reliable recovery makes it an even more interesting utility choice; and perfect offensive coverage means it can pick and choose exactly which hazard setters/clearers it has a good/bad matchup versus according to the needs of its team. I think Mew's pretty unexplored, so I hope people will give it a whirl now that teambuilding has been freed up.

There is so much else I could probably talk about, but I've already wasted enough time on this thread and CBA to think about it more, so I'll stop there. Interested to see what other changes people expect.
 
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