Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[Pabloaram]

Hi OU...
The meta feeld great rn....
I was using a team with some set which i think are great rn..
- SCARF Gapdos is nice.. is faster than geneset, has uturn to pivot around and punish defog/intimidate with defiant..
- AV work as a softcheck to most special attackers, when also having some punch like 2hko offensive lando-t after intimidate with double iron bash
- HDB CM has a niche tranks to having coverage against ground in the form of Scald
- HDB is stupid rn.. CC Uturn Ice Beam and Rapid Spin is great. Tranks to the speed boost of rapid spin i am using Lonely nature to gain the Beast Boost in attack
- Rocky Helmet is my rocker bc he punish most uturn and a electric inmunity is necesary with Koko + Eleki cores in ladder

The most broken stuff rn is Geneset by far..

 

[ttr]

1. What are you most excited to use in the new metagame?

I've been excited to use Zygarde for a while, and it has not disappointed me yet! Laddering with this set has ben a pleasure so far:

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Scale Shot
- Substitute
- Coil

Scale Shot is a neat tech move, as being able to hit things and boost your speed at the same time is a great mid-ground play to have in your arsenal. The defense boost from Coil helps offset the drop from Scale Shot and complements it nicely. Scale Shot also makes Zygarde a little less passive, as you can get a jump on the pokemon that want to revenge kill you. Jolly / a little more speed also helps against Blaziken, as you then can guarantee outspeed a +1 Speed Blaziken after a Scale Shot (if you are worried about Blaziken)

3. What pre-dlc mons are expected to benefit the most or see a rise in viability?

Ditto. Right now with so much power flying around / setting up in OU Ditto is fantastic to prevent unexpected setup sweepers / Spectrier from sweeping your entire team in 5 seconds. Speaking of the ghorse...

4. How do you feel about the new Galarian Formes, Regis, and horse legendaries?

Spectrier is insane. Not enough teams have a solid dark type / normal type / Ditto to stop this ghorse from running over them. Yeah, it has a small movepool, but it only really needs 1 move. the ghorse is great and I love it. Cracking open teams is especially fun with this horse, and I'll wait to see what answers OU comes up for it.

10. I hope you all have a wonderful weekend and enjoy playing the new Crown Tundra DLC both in-game and on here :)

Thanks, u2!

 

[Cuddly]

Everyone raves about Regieleki, but Regidrago definitely has tons of merit as well.

-It has slightly less bulk than Toxapex (given the same investment)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regidrago: 105-124 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Kingdra Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regidrago: 93-111 (15.3 - 18.3%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 54-65 (17.7 - 21.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Kingdra Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 46-55 (15.1 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO
-It can outdamage Life Orb Adamant Crawdaunt with just Timid and Scarf
252 SpA Regidrago Dragon’s Maw Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 306-361 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 294-348 (72.7 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-has a decent speed tier given its bulk and power, being able to outspeed Zeraora with Scarf

I think Regidrago will be a Charizard for non-sun teams, or a Scarf Kyogre nerfed enough to be OU.
It doesn’t have good coverage, but Dragon Energy boosted by Dragon’s Maw is extremely powerful at full HP. But it’s other Special Dragon moves are still pretty strong as well.

Regidrago @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dragon's Maw
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Energy
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Ancient Power/Fire Fang

I think Scarf will be the best set. Letting it nuke most of the meta that isn’t fairy, steel, or Blissey.
Dragon Energy will be nuking everything, as long as you are at full health.
If you lost a lot of your health, Draco Meteor will be your best bet to dealing a ton of damage and wallbreaking.
Dragon Pulse for when you are at low health, but don’t want your SpA to drop, such as revenge killing a weakened Pokemon or when need to save your teammates.
Ancient Power one of the 4 coverage Special moves that Regidrago has, and its other options are Round, Snore, and Hyper Beam.
Fire Fang primarily exists for Ferrothorn.

 

[OneSmogonCopyer]

1.) After for so long, Swampert (non-mega) feels like it has a niche in OU again. A water stealth rocker that isnt a momentum sink due to flip turn. I've been testing out some sets with this bad boy but the most successful set I've had is this.
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Flip Turn
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
I've chosen damp over torrent due to Regieleki mostly so it doesnt get to explode after setting up screens. With torrent, it can deliver surprising amounts of damage with flip turn and is not to be underestimated. Pair it up with a wish mon and it will last a long time. Oh also heatran. God I love that hell frog.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Protect
2.)Gengar, Zeraora, Volcarona and Rhyperior
>Gengar
Spectrier
>Zeraora
The amount of grounds in the tier is holding it back a lot. Also Lando is back and it won't be able to touch it. Forgoing GKnot could alleviate this problem, but it's not enough since most grounds kill this thing
>Volcarona
Definitely heatran coming back hinders it a lot.
>Rhyperior
Doesnt feel as threatening as it was back in last DLC. What with the broken mons running around right now.

3.) From what I've seen, Dracozolt definitely is a monster. Not having to rely on hustle and gaining access to Sand Rush means it can go band and just like parroting other said, hits a fuckton under Electric terrain. On another note, Tyranitar seems to have regain some of its glory back as a specially defensive mon. I've been testing a set of AV mixed TTar and it is doing work. Might also be because of the surprise factor rn. With the existence of spectrier, it is one of THE best hard checks for it.

4.)Gapdos best out of all of the birds. Regis are balanced. Eleki is BS without grounds and Draco is BS without fairy. Spectrier is definitely the more used mon with Glastrier having a niche in trick room.

5.) Eleki and Draco.

6.) After banning the brokens (Lando-I, Gene (fuck band), Pheromosa, Naganadel and Kyu-B (fuck DD Icicle spear or Band)) Tornadus, Blaziken (somewhat broken but it is such a 50/50 mon) Magearna and Cinderace will be a top tier threat.

7.) Zygarde, Heatran and maybe Dnite? Its access to roost, HDB and natural bulk can help stave off mons like Blaziken and Ace as a natural check to them.

9.) Definitely Swampert and Heatran is a surprise mon I've come to like. Also Kapdos. Such a nice mon.

10.) You too :>

 

[BitBitio]

1.) After for so long, Swampert (non-mega) feels like it has a niche in OU again. A water stealth rocker that isnt a momentum sink due to flip turn. I've been testing out some sets with this bad boy but the most successful set I've had is this.
Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Flip Turn
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
I've chosen damp over torrent due to Regieleki mostly so it doesnt get to explode after setting up screens. With torrent, it can deliver surprising amounts of damage with flip turn and is not to be underestimated. Pair it up with a wish mon and it will last a long time.

I'd actually recommend 248 HP/252 Def/8 Spe for Pert, as it enables it to better check Melmetal which would otherwise outspeed and possibly hax Swampert to death. (also it creeps Ttar) And yeah, this mon is sick and is actually lowkey good in this meta.

 

[Aurinko]

I've played around with my old Gen7 team with Tapu Fini and AV-Celesteela (Ninetales-A screens, peaked somewhere Top50 back then); and it fares nicely even in this chaotic meta. My old Stakataka/Cress TR lost Mega Mawile, but gained Glastrier, which is absolutely great in TR and nailed me lotta wins.

My impression is that some broken stuff lost its edge - Naganadel comes to mind, while especially Melmetal, Genesect and Landorus feel as busted as ever.

The meta already feels more complete than it did during the past year of Sw/Sh, even in this chaotic state. I'm so glad!

 

[mushamu]

Cresselia blanket checks certain Pokemon that were unbanned as of right now. Defensive investments means you can come in on Zygarde, Landorus, and Blaziken and wall them pretty nicely. Even Blaziken's +2 Flare Blitz shouldn't OHKO Defensive Cresselia and it can beat it with Psychic after recoil. Ice Beam paired with its impressive bulk allows Cresselia to handle Zygarde and Landorus-I pretty well as long as they aren't carrying Toxic. As for the other Pokemon, Thunder Wave lets it spread paralysis against some of the other drops like Kartana, Kyurem-B, Magearna, Genesect, and Pheromosa, making it not completely passive against these Pokemon. Overall, I can see Cresselia having merit in the early stages of DLC 2 SS OU as it matches up well against the new Pokemon, although it will deflate in viability once the metagame balances out and Pokemon like Zygarde, Landorus-I, and Blaziken get the boot. I've thought about other bulky Psychic-types like Slowbro, Slowking, and Latias for the role but Slowbro loses to Landorus-I, Slowking has to pick between specially defensive and defensive and cannot check Landorus-I and Zygarde simultaneously, while Latias can't switch in on Zygarde at all. Levitate ignoring Spikes and Toxic Spikes helps a ton for keeping Cresselia healthy as well, which means it doesn't have to run Heavy Duty Boots and can instead run Leftovers.

set

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Thunder Wave

calcs

Blaziken:
+2 252+ Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 258-304 (58.1 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252+ Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 387-456 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Cresselia Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 204-242 (67.7 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Should finish it off after Flare Blitz recoil)

Zygarde:
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 127-151 (28.6 - 34%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 171-202 (38.5 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde: 212-252 (59.3 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Landorus:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 183-216 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (If Gravity)
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 129-152 (29 - 34.2%) -- 2.5% chance to 3HKO

some replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1208808646
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1208845096
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1208850586

edit: Just realized Cresselia isn't a pre dlc mon

 

[Negative Charge]

I have to say that as one dimensional as this thing is, it's by far the most fun I've had using a mon in a long time. While I think it can be run on balance and BO teams as a cleaner, you're going to have to tech your team to be poisoning and chipping grounds. If you run it with Koko, make sure you have Grass Knot. It's no secret that rain is probably the best place for Regieleki.

I am also torn on whether I like modest or timid more. I think that outspeeding up to base 110 scarfers is sweet enough that the power drop is worth it.

 

[Finchinator]

I have to say that as one dimensional as this thing is, it's by far the most fun I've had using a mon in a long time.

Gotta agree with this. Regieleki is never going to be the best Pokemon and it’s always going to be support reliant, but it’s still fun regardless.

Personally, I have been theorizing using it with Toxic Spikes (ideally Naganadel or Nidoqueen because fuck using Toxapex rn) or Trick + Ring Target RotomH (lures in Zyg/Chomp/Pert, less so Landos tho). It’s just a matter of trying to find ways to minimize encountering Grounds and maximize offensive openings for it.

In other news, it’s amusing knowing that the people creating these games decided to go ham with the crazy BST allocations, but then got straight up bored with movepools on most of these lmao

 

[BreloomBoyBouttaSpore]

Scale Shot is a neat tech move, as being able to hit things and boost your speed at the same time is a great mid-ground play to have in your arsenal

Why not use DD and have another moveslot?

 

[Deleted User 464209]

Gotta agree with this. Regieleki is never going to be the best Pokemon and it’s always going to be support reliant, but it’s still fun regardless.

Personally, I have been theorizing using it with Toxic Spikes (ideally Naganadel or Nidoqueen because fuck using Toxapex rn) or Trick + Ring Target RotomH (lures in Zyg/Chomp/Pert, less so Landos tho). It’s just a matter of trying to find ways to minimize encountering Grounds and maximize offensive openings for it.

In other news, it’s amusing knowing that the people creating these games decided to go ham with the crazy BST allocations, but then got straight up bored with movepools on most of these lmao

Trick+ring target is freer if you do it through Victini; pulls in Zyg/Lando/chomp guaranteed and you can u-turn on all of them too. Don’t have to load up on the electric trypes (if you are also running koko, which I think is a no-brainer with regielectric).

viol and bass, you trick on the switch. There’s a very small number of things that want to chance taking a vcreate before knowing the set.

https://pokepast.es/45c0659140a64028

 

[viol and bass]

Trick+ring target is freer if you do it through Victini; pulls in Zyg/Lando/chomp guaranteed and you can u-turn on all of them too. Don’t have to load up on the electric trypes (if you are also running koko, which I think is a no-brainer with regielectric).

It's pretty inconsistent because the opponent can simply switch in a different mon on the turn you trick. I think if you're going to run Ring Target, trapping + Trick/Switcheroo is the most consistent. This set's been decent for me. Fairy Lock the Lando or whatever, Switcheroo and die, then Volt Switch forever.


Klefki @ Ring Target
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fairy Lock
- Switcheroo
- Thunder Wave / Dazzling Gleam
- Spikes

 

[Finchinator]

Why not use DD and have another moveslot?

You absolutely can do that, but Scale Shot offers a great deal of offensive pressure, which can come into play when free turns are few and far between in such a hectic initial metagame. I have a feeling Zygarde will end up running more conventional, SM like sets eventually. But for now, it has a lot more to account for.

 

[TURBODERP]

In other news, it’s amusing knowing that the people creating these games decided to go ham with the crazy BST allocations, but then got straight up bored with movepools on most of these lmao

I actually think it's intentional and IMO it kinda lines up with limiting the distribution of Toxic and Knock Off.

I think the idea is the crazy BST allocations are held back from being broken with mediocre typing (Ice horse) and/or limited movepools (Ghost horse). Thus you gotta build around the niche (even if it's a big niche) instead of just being able to be automatically/broken great due to having a wide enough movepool to abuse the crazy BST stuff....or vice versa in the case of Ice Horse (solid movepool, great BST, but limited by allocation of said BST and typing). By doing this Gamefreak can avoid automatic power-creep and give ways for new mons to differentiate themselves from older ones (different movepools for example). And honestly I think that while they kinda went a bit far in the case of the Regis and birds and not far enough with the Rider fusions, I do like what I'm perceiving to be the balancing philosophy here.

Mind you I think not having Roost on G-Zapdos (or at the very least G-Moltres) is a travesty.

 

[earl]

Personally, I have been theorizing using it with Toxic Spikes (ideally Naganadel or Nidoqueen because fuck using Toxapex rn)

Speaking of Toxic Spikes, I have been having an absolute blast with this set:

Nihilego @ Power Herb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Meteor Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Power Gem
- Toxic Spikes

Meteor Beam is absolutely lethal in a metagame where the most popular Grounds (Landos), Fighters (Buzzwole, Zapdos), and Steels (Heatran, Genesect) are all neutral to Rock and all fold to a Meteor Beam. Additionally, a lot of the resists aren't particularly bulky on the Special end (Urshifu, Melmetal, Garchomp) and still take a ton. If the opponent has a solid counter, set up T-Spikes for free. It's been a very reliable T-Spikes setter from the handful of games I've played with it and also has some nice defensive utility thanks to that special bulk against stuff like Koko or various other special mons. Hard-switch into the Lando-I when they come in on your Zapdos, trust me.

The EVs can be tweaked for speed boosts but coming off of a kill with +2 SpA is pretty great too. Hard to sweep with Nihilego either way.

 

[bb skarm]

Gotta agree with this. Regieleki is never going to be the best Pokemon and it’s always going to be support reliant, but it’s still fun regardless.

Personally, I have been theorizing using it with Toxic Spikes (ideally Naganadel or Nidoqueen because fuck using Toxapex rn) or Trick + Ring Target RotomH (lures in Zyg/Chomp/Pert, less so Landos tho). It’s just a matter of trying to find ways to minimize encountering Grounds and maximize offensive openings for it.

In other news, it’s amusing knowing that the people creating these games decided to go ham with the crazy BST allocations, but then got straight up bored with movepools on most of these lmao

I feel like Nidoqueen is OU viable at the moment too. LO hazards is pretty solid to use and gets tspikes (or stealth rock if you need that) up pretty reliably. Once the metagame settles down and pex/clef/ferro all return to their former glory Nidoqueen is going to be a decent pick because it is is pretty terrifying for these mons.

 

[Gomi]

2. What pre-dlc mons are expected to get hit the hardest?
3. What pre-dlc mons are expected to benefit the most or see a rise in viability?
5. What do you believe will be overhyped and what will die down after being given the "new toy" treatment?
6. What do you think will be some of the strongest offensive threats in the metagame?
7. What do you think will be some of the strongest defensive options in the metagame?
9. What is your favorite returning mon?
10. I hope you all have a wonderful weekend and enjoy playing the new Crown Tundra DLC both in-game and on here :)

2.
New competition as speed control and much less unique as an elec immunity, not to mention actual grounds exist now and they throttle it defensively. it's just not special anymore
even MORE things exist that completely shut down Belly Drum (Naganade, latis, Zapdos) and CB still sucks so rip
this isn't horrible or anything, it just isn't special anymore. Other offensive rockers existing really really hurts it, but it still has fantastic overall bulk

3.

Future sight is even BETTER rn and both of these check some crazy Pokemon, with Bro checking Phero, Blaziken, Cinderace, Victini, and Chomp/Lando, and King giving up some consistency vs those to check Lando Incarn to an extent

Hazard spam HO is my absolute favorite thing to spam currently and this is the single best hazard spam lead so y'know. the amount of Pokémon you put into very uncomfortable ranges with Spikes is crazy, esp with stuff like Kyube, Naganadel, Blaziken, etc. to back up

Ghost resists are somehow in even higher demand with the introduction of Spectrier, and this is one of the three things to actually defensively answer Naganadel (T-wave Bliss, Heatran, Ttar), albeit it's extremely susceptible to chip like Heatran

5.
Regieleki for sure, it's not even bad, it's just so unbelievably overhyped as an ender of worlds, like it isn't beaten by something most good teams have by default, an electric immunity. and no, it is not comparable to removing, say, Hippo for Melmetal, because Melmetal can actually finish off the weakened Hippo and does things while its alive. eleki basically just functions late game or thru gimmicks, which is okay, it's a fun mon, but it isn't the next Vish

6.

this is shaping up to be the best pokemon in the current metagame for me, honestly. Even if you don't think its broken, it's undeniable that its incredibly easy to splash onto a team and almost stupid not to run alot of the time, because it just performs so well vs everything, with just the CB set revenging a vast majority of the tier, including Naganadel and Blaziken

You run buzzwole or you revenge it, end of story. this thing is stupid powerful and stupid bulky and using it is PURE joy but facing it is PURE agony

This is pretty much the sole reason im running defensive boots Dragonite on some of my teams. Above average speed tier for a breaker of its caliber and gravity just ruins e v e r y t h i n g. One of my least favorite mons running around rn but again SO FUN to abuse

7.

One of the only Genesect/Naganadel switchins period, as wel as providing rocks and the ability to trap defensive mons for your own dumb breakers. Indespensible glue currently, it's kinda hard to justify not running it on a balance/bulky offense

Checks so much and maintains alot of momentum without being lando incarn bait to the same degree as Toxapex, also future sight is still really fun

I don't see this lasting but for now, Buzzwole is easily one of the best physical walls i can think of. A decent Kyube check, a Urshifu answer, able to 1v1 +0 Blaziken in a pinch, destroys rillaboom without mercy, I could go on. Just support it vs special attackers and Blaziken, it doesn't really like those much

9.
Tough call, but and are definitely what I was most excited to start running again, with both just being building godsents for more offensive builds personally, and I've missed running offense, as much as I like a good balance team. Tankchomp is an amazing physical wall for offensive builds full of priority spam, which is alot of em rn, and Latias has the almightly HEALING WISH, so scarf is pretty much my favorite thing ever

Random thoughts:
This is really good, specs gives me ash gren vibes
I mean its not bad, I just like Garchomp more rn
I hate this I hate this I hate this I HATE THIS
Really really likes the sheer number of offense going around currently and its got some good defensive utility to it
Would be infinitely worse to deal with if CB Genesect wasn't a Revenge Killing Messiah, though that's not to say it lacks counterplay beyond that, far from it. Slowbro, CB Zyg, Tankchomp for wearing it down faster, Aqua Jet, Dragonite, etc.

The horse things: Glastrier is really fun and reminds me heavily of Crawdaunt, in that it's an incredible breaker with some use VS offensive builds, albeit the ice horse's comes from incredibly stupid bulk, rather than priority. Spectrier is annoying and beats Darks by clicking Wisp and then spamming Sball until you drop, I very much do not like facing it, not even remotely

 

[Pabloaram]

The set i mencioned in the last post
Pheromosa @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

You only are outspeed by Regieleki and Zeraora... The +1 speed from rapid make you only weak to priority and the nature made Beast Boost boost your atack like Moxie

Melmetal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch

AV let Melmetal check most special attackers at least twice.. Speed is for Pex (and Max Hp Ice Horse)

Zapdos-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunderous Kick
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Throat Chop

Nice speed tier. Checking things like +1 Blaziken and being a nice surprise.

 

[Monky25]

[/QUOTE]

2. What pre-dlc mons are expected to get hit the hardest?
3. What pre-dlc mons are expected to benefit the most or see a rise in viability?
Just a reminder, but we'll be posting the usage stats from the Tundra Cup here in this thread. The Tundra Cup starts this upcoming Monday, so make sure to sign up in case you haven't already done so. See you soon!

2.

- All of these mons have been negatively impacted by the new mons. While excadrill and volcarona have to compete with other grounds and struggle with heatran respectively, they will still likely retain high viability and fair usage in OU. On the other hand, the remaining mons here have been hit very hard with the new mons dropping and i expect at the very least all of these drop to UU these shifts.
3.

- Rillachad appreciates not having to compete with tapu bulu and being able to revenge a good amount of mons with a strong grassy glide. Trick room has gotten better with mons like glastrier and melmetal returning, so hat being a trick room staple increases its viability. Urshifu rapid strike is an awesome revenger to unboosted blaziken and can nail the dragons like chomp and zygarde with an ice punch. Rain has also gotten better with tapu koko, regieleki, omastar, zapdos, and torn-t. Mew and grimmsnarl really appreciate all the HO running around.

 

[musiquepkmn]

I know what I'm about to say might be not traditional, and please feel free to delete my comment if you think that it's such a bad idea that it doesn't deserve to be mentioned. My idea is: how about we wait a little longer, say until the weekend of the 31st, until we do any quickbans? Even the stalliest among us, myself included, feel that this faster and more powerful metagame is a great breath of fresh air, and many love this metagame and would hate to see it gone so fast. Furthermore, many of the pokemon that were added/brought down from ubers are at a point where it is beyond doubt that they will be banned. Of course, whether they deserve a QB or a Suspect differs, but most people can assume that mons like Genesect, Phermosa, Lando-I, and Blaziken will be banned. Why not wait a little bit to allow everyone to enjoy the meta a little bit, while also getting a little more time to sus out the more borderline mons (Cinderace, Magearna, etc.). Of course, smogon works in ways that at some points may depart from absolute fun, but I think even the council members can at least feel what I'm getting at. Many high-level players with Youtube channels have also discussed a similar feeling about the DLC1 meta (Finch, John W, Joey, RedEmption). Please respond to this post with a [wow ] if you would like to see something similar. Again, this might just be a low ladder player spouting crazy talk so delete the post if you think it is appropriate.

Edit: Upon reread (really should start doing that before I post) this might be a little unclear, so the idea I am proposing is that we wait for the quickbans. I heard on Finch's channel that they are anticipating some to come Monday, but I think that maybe waiting until next Friday or Saturday could be good to let everyone unwind and stretch from the slowness that was DLC1. The pokemon that are broken now, at least, aren't broken in the way where they make things not fun, so it's not like people will have to struggle to "bear with" them for another week.

 

[Monky25]

I know what I'm about to say might be not traditional, and please feel free to delete my comment if you think that it's such a bad idea that it doesn't deserve to be mentioned. My idea is: how about we wait a little longer, say until the weekend of the 31st, until we do any quickbans? Even the stalliest among us, myself included, feel that this faster and more powerful metagame is a great breath of fresh air, and many love this metagame and would hate to see it gone so fast. Furthermore, many of the pokemon that were added/brought down from ubers are at a point where it is beyond doubt that they will be banned. Of course, whether they deserve a QB or a Suspect differs, but most people can assume that mons like Genesect, Phermosa, Lando-I, and Blaziken will be banned. Why not wait a little bit to allow everyone to enjoy the meta a little bit, while also getting a little more time to sus out the more borderline mons (Cinderace, Magearna, etc.). Of course, smogon works in ways that at some points may depart from absolute fun, but I think even the council members can at least feel what I'm getting at. Many high-level players with Youtube channels have also discussed a similar feeling about the DLC1 meta (Finch, John W, Joey, RedEmption). Please respond to this post with a [wow ] if you would like to see something similar. Again, this might just be a low ladder player spouting crazy talk so delete the post if you think it is appropriate.

Edit: Upon reread (really should start doing that before I post) this might be a little unclear, so the idea I am proposing is that we wait for the quickbans. I heard on Finch's channel that they are anticipating some to come Monday, but I think that maybe waiting until next Friday or Saturday could be good to let everyone unwind and stretch from the slowness that was DLC1. The pokemon that are broken now, at least, aren't broken in the way where they make things not fun, so it's not like people will have to struggle to "bear with" them for another week.

While I do see the point of view many see, I still have to acknowledge that we should at least get rid of a few problematic mons that are obviously broken like lando-i, genesect, etc. By clearing up the meta by getting rid of some suffocating mons, we are able to see how some of the more controversial mons operate in a meta without them. For example, pheromosa, zygarde, spectrier, blaziken, and torn-t are all mons that have the potential to be looked at, but we are able to further evaluate their position in the meta without the immediate broken threats diverting attention from them. Overall, only quickban the 3-4 most problematic mons for now and see how the others develop in a less strangled metagame. I genuinely want to see how the playerbase thinks about my stance vs the above's (not attacking, just seeing what everyone thinks) so react with the (haha/koffing symbol) if you think this way would be better.

 

[Bob Barker's Ghost]

Ok guys, I'm gonna share the best kept secret of the current crazy metagame. Question: what is the best new unban from SS?

Answer:

Cinderace is basically a top anti-OU threat that swiftly deals with all the new crazy drops thanks to: libero, raw power, and speed. Here is, in my opinion, the only viable Cinderace set right now:

Set

Cinderace @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Zen Headbutt
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick

This set hardly reinvents the wheel, but it reliably deals with the following: Naganadel, +1 Kyurem, +1 Blazikan, +1 Zapdos after rocks, and so many more. If you're struggling to find decent games i highly recommend putting the soccer ace on your team.

 

[TMaster23]

Just want to point this out, for Regieleki and Regidrago, I don’t think they’re stats are what people think they are. Transistor and Drago’s Abilitu specify that the attacking STAT multiplies by 1.5, similar to Huge Power. If that’s the basis, a Level 100 Eleki with a neutral nature to Sp.A with 31 IVs and 252 EVs gets a 299 Sp.A, which multiplies to 448 with an electric attack. That’s an effective base 178 using a STAB move that can benefit from a terrain. It might work like Adaptability, but based on the wording, the new Regi’s are stronger than most people think.

 

[Spyro]

Trick+ring target is freer if you do it through Victini; pulls in Zyg/Lando/chomp guaranteed and you can u-turn on all of them too. Don’t have to load up on the electric trypes (if you are also running koko, which I think is a no-brainer with regielectric).

viol and bass, you trick on the switch. There’s a very small number of things that want to chance taking a vcreate before knowing the set.

https://pokepast.es/45c0659140a64028

I was just thinking of Ring Target earlier. I used it a long time ago back when Gothitelle could be used in OU with Shadow Tag, I was running her and 5 dragons. You could trap Clefable trick it a Ring Target and go to town with dragon spam. But since you can't really do that anymore I thought it would only work as a surprise Trick. Victini does seem to lure Ground types pretty well so that's cool but the thing with Victini is that it has Glaciate for Lando, Garchomp and etc. It's better to just run a mixed LO set imo.

 

[musiquepkmn]

While I do see the point of view many see, I still have to acknowledge that we should at least get rid of a few problematic mons that are obviously broken like lando-i, genesect, etc. By clearing up the meta by getting rid of some suffocating mons, we are able to see how some of the more controversial mons operate in a meta without them. For example, pheromosa, zygarde, spectrier, blaziken, and torn-t are all mons that have the potential to be looked at, but we are able to further evaluate their position in the meta without the immediate broken threats diverting attention from them. Overall, only quickban the 3-4 most problematic mons for now and see how the others develop in a less strangled metagame. I genuinely want to see how the playerbase thinks about my stance vs the above's (not attacking, just seeing what everyone thinks) so react with the (haha/koffing symbol) if you think this way would be better.

My stance is more "everyone loves the crazy broken mons" (admit it you love Genesect), rather than "try and get the bans as effeciently as possible." A large reason why people love this meta is because the crazy broken mons sometimes just win games on the spot, and love using that power when just a couple days ago games would go to 300+ turns because your best wincon requires 3 mons dead and the other 3 chipped and pp stalled (exaggeration). And plus, many people aren't sure on what we should QB monday. My personal choices for an immediate qb would be Blaziken, Genesect, and Naganadel, but others might have differing opinions, and that could be ironed out by waiting a little bit, while also letting everyone blow everything up after months of having to pp stall in what was essentially a mirror match.