Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

Restalk gyarados is nearly non existent in gen 7. Rotom heat and mega altaria are as non existent. Yes, zard y gets stopped by pex and chansey but that's like saying "oh just carry physdex pex/hippowdown and cinderace is easy to deal with". If you didn't have one of few specific special waalls, Zard y was absolutely a terrifying wallbreaker in SM OU.
Not really Toxapex made Zard Y a very matchup reliant mon in gen 7,every team having pex made Zard Y almost dead weight because toxapex wall it forever to say nothing of the Mega Lati twins and Chansey.Besides its speed was average for an offensive pokemon which left it vulnerable to a lot of mons than could check it like Mega Diancie,Garchomp and Tapu koko
 
Restalk gyarados is nearly non existent in gen 7. Rotom heat and mega altaria are as non existent. Yes, zard y gets stopped by pex and chansey but that's like saying "oh just carry physdex pex/hippowdown and cinderace is easy to deal with". If you didn't have one of few specific special waalls, Zard y was absolutely a terrifying wallbreaker in SM OU.
I can't understand why Rotom Heat is non existent in OU. They are such an anti meta mon. Electric/Fire is an insane defensive and offensive typing when paired with levitate
 
I can't understand why Rotom Heat is non existent in OU. They are such an anti meta mon. Electric/Fire is an insane defensive and offensive typing when paired with levitate
The problem is, Rotom-H is competing with Heatran as a Fire-type and Koko as an Electric-type pivot. Its typing is offset by its low stats relative to the rest of OU, and also its reliance of HDB which means it can't check Torn carrying Knock. Rotom-H also has severe 4MSS, wanting all of Pain Split, Volt Switch, Wow/Toxic and Overheat, but needing to run NP+Tbolt/Discharge in order to not just be bad Koko. Rotom-H concedes a lot of momentum to Garchomp unless it statuses it on the switch and is generally bait for every support mon in the tier to do its thing unless it carries Nasty Plot to be a threat. The fact Rotom-H is viable at all with all this against it is testament to how good its defensive typing is.
It also faces competition from Rotom-W, which is receiving a lot of attention in the current meta precisely because it's a Torn check that isn't crippled by Knock, and it can occasionally run Trick Scarf too. Unlike Rotom-H, it also scares out most Ground-types and does decent damage to Chomp, making it the better pivot.
 
The problem is, Rotom-H is competing with Heatran as a Fire-type and Koko as an Electric-type pivot. Its typing is offset by its low stats relative to the rest of OU, and also its reliance of HDB which means it can't check Torn carrying Knock. Rotom-H also has severe 4MSS, wanting all of Pain Split, Volt Switch, Wow/Toxic and Overheat, but needing to run NP+Tbolt/Discharge in order to not just be bad Koko. Rotom-H concedes a lot of momentum to Garchomp unless it statuses it on the switch and is generally bait for every support mon in the tier to do its thing unless it carries Nasty Plot to be a threat. The fact Rotom-H is viable at all with all this against it is testament to how good its defensive typing is.
It also faces competition from Rotom-W, which is receiving a lot of attention in the current meta precisely because it's a Torn check that isn't crippled by Knock, and it can occasionally run Trick Scarf too. Unlike Rotom-H, it also scares out most Ground-types and does decent damage to Chomp, making it the better pivot.
Makes sense. They both check mons I was also gonna mention such as Sand Rush Excadrill and wash does do better against ground types that carry Stone Edge. A resistance to Fairy, Electric and Grass is nice, though.
 
Makes sense. They both check mons I was also gonna mention such as Sand Rush Excadrill and wash does do better against ground types that carry Stone Edge. A resistance to Fairy, Electric and Grass is nice, though.
Rotom heat will probably be good if u used it, I mean it doesnt care about melmetan, tran, corvi, but it has competition against heatran it self, cant afford to lose boots against torn, but yea it should be explore more.
 
Rotom heat will probably be good if u used it, I mean it doesnt care about melmetan, tran, corvi, but it has competition against heatran it self, cant afford to lose boots against torn, but yea it should be explore more.
Talking more on the Heattom discussion, I think it’s criminally underrated in the meta for a few reasons.

There are better mons that can check Torn and Koko yes but none of have the same combination of traits as Heattom. One of them is being a Sub-Roost Kyurem counter that can use it to setup NP. Nothing in the tier can accomplish the same thing while also checking Rilla. Scizor can do this but can’t really break past Zap or Pex. CM Clef can check Kyu but not Rilla.

Another thing is that it can switch into Tran and setup a NP. It only really has to worry about Toxic which can be salvaged with clerics like Clef or Dnite. Or Substitute which also lets it completely stuff out Defensive Lando (unless it is carrying Knock).

Heattom has more checks/counters compared to IoA. Pult, Pert, Chomp, Latios, Blissey, etc. Pult/Latios don’t like getting paralyzed by Discharge, Pert/Chomp can get worn down across a match, and Blissey has been overtaken by Slowking as the premier special wall.

Just a quick note. Never run pivot sets, they are ass. Heattom isn’t a godsend like I might be describing it as, but it has an effective niche worth noting and its better than most of the garbage in the C tiers
 

Finchinator

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Rotom-H switches in to Tornadus-Therian, gets Knocked Off, and then has enough health to check Tornadus-Therian, Tapu Koko, Rillaboom, or Zeraora maybe one more time before ultimately being an unproductive pivot turned fodder. The prevalence of untimely Knock Offs and the uprising of Heatran, Garchomp, and Hydreigon spell doom for the heater. It will never replicate DLC1 success in this landscape
 
Rotom-H switches in to Tornadus-Therian, gets Knocked Off, and then has enough health to check Tornadus-Therian, Tapu Koko, Rillaboom, or Zeraora maybe one more time before ultimately being an unproductive pivot turned fodder. The prevalence of untimely Knock Offs and the uprising of Heatran, Garchomp, and Hydreigon spell doom for the heater. It will never replicate DLC1 success in this landscape
P much describes pivot Heattom. Why bother with a worse Koko that does like no dmg when you can take advantage of it’s good offensive/defensive typing to make progress via Discharge paralysis and NP? More dragons in the meta means it’ll never be in the same league as it was in DLC1, but none of them other than Chomp likes switching into Discharge so it’s not complete deadweight. I want to end the Heattom discussion here cause there is bigger fish to fry rn like Bisharp’s success in SPL or how much exploration has happened since the ban of the forbidden rabbits.
 
As far as exploration goes, down at the 1300-1500 range on the ladder I've noticed a decent amount of Scizor usage, seemingly always coming with one of Tapu Koko or Rotom Wash for Volt-turn cores, as well as spamming Bullet Punch. It seems to match up well with pokemon like nonmixed Garchomp and pretty much any Rillaboom, but it can't really do anything against Toxapex or Heatran that I've seen. Then again that's what U-Turn is for, and hoping that you don't proc Flame Body that basically makes a useless pokemon. I'm guessing Scizor's rise is due to banning the soccer bunny as opposed to banning the gear bunny. That being said, Bisharp's rise (which I've also seen down here) is probably helped out by both bans and seems like a pretty great answer to Dragapult. I think Bisharp wishes it could get supereffective Iron Heads on any of the Tapus, for sure. That would help with its viability even more.
 
With Cinderace gone, I'd like to talk about a pokemon that is trying to fill its shoes (or boots lol)

Zeroara

At first Zeroara's resurgence in OU surprised me. None of the many ground types that checked it were banned or fell off in usage, so its rise felt sort of random. Now that I think about it, however, it makes perfect sense. After Cinderace was banned, Zeroara rose to replace it as a fast, offensive pivot with good coverage, and I think it does a good job fulfilling that role.

The most important part of Zeroara is how ludicrously fast it is, with its base 143 speed second only to regieleki as the highest in the tier. This allows it to volt switch on almost any non-ground type without getting punished. In a meta that features heavy use of pivot moves, Zeroara is one of the best at generating momentum. Its base 112 attack is pretty solid as well, allowing it to 2hko common walls like Pex, Blissey and Corviknight. When it runs into a non-ground it can't break, just volt switch.

Zeraora @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Volt Switch

This is its best set. Plasma Fists is basically its equivalent of pyro ball, a powerful stab move that is its primary method of attacking. Knock off is always a great move to run and close combat allows it to hit electric resists. Like cinderace, this set employs a hit and run strategy, using its physical attacks to kill slower, weaker opponents and volt switching on tougher foes. There are also bulk up sets and the elusive special attacking set which are more niche, but still cool.

To top things off, Zeroara is a great partner to Rillaboom, one of the best offensive mons in the tier. Zeroara is able to deal with the flying types that wall rillaboom, while Zeroara's ground type checks don't want to be on the receiving end of a grassy glide.


 
Great post about zeraora. I've tried it and it just felt a bit underwhelming even coupled with rillaboom. It's very reliant on chipping down lando/garchomp/pert (which isn't impossible by any means) and I find it's attack just a bit underhwelming. Can revenge kill dragapult too, so that's a plus. Even coupling it with SD rillaboom I've had difficulty breaking common corvi+ground cores. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but zeraora just lacks breaking power that's so important this gen, it's too speed based if you will. Would enjoy seeing replays.
 
Great post about zeraora. I've tried it and it just felt a bit underwhelming even coupled with rillaboom. It's very reliant on chipping down lando/garchomp/pert (which isn't impossible by any means) and I find it's attack just a bit underhwelming. Can revenge kill dragapult too, so that's a plus. Even coupling it with SD rillaboom I've had difficulty breaking common corvi+ground cores. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but zeraora just lacks breaking power that's so important this gen, it's too speed based if you will. Would enjoy seeing replays.
Actually I think the best set for a breaker would be bulk up 3 attack. Volt switch sets are good, however the most splashable set I think would be TOXIC 3 attack. With knock off and hazard chip, ground types get screwed pretty hard. And it does a pretty damn good job at setting up for a good endgame with zeraora.
 

Ehmcee

A Spoopy Ghost
is a Pre-Contributor
Great post about zeraora. I've tried it and it just felt a bit underwhelming even coupled with rillaboom. It's very reliant on chipping down lando/garchomp/pert (which isn't impossible by any means) and I find it's attack just a bit underhwelming. Can revenge kill dragapult too, so that's a plus. Even coupling it with SD rillaboom I've had difficulty breaking common corvi+ground cores. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but zeraora just lacks breaking power that's so important this gen, it's too speed based if you will. Would enjoy seeing replays.
I'd suggest running either toxic or grass knot on your zera, with proper prediction you're able to massively threaten teams that rely on those defensive cores. This would however require removing either Close Combat or Plasma Fists preferably, so adjust that to whichever you want to threaten.
 
I'd suggest running either toxic or grass knot on your zera, with proper prediction you're able to massively threaten teams that rely on those defensive cores. This would however require removing either Close Combat or Plasma Fists preferably, so adjust that to whichever you want to threaten.
Yeah grass knot definitely has merit on it
-CALCS-

0 SpA Zeraora Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 230-272 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Zeraora Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 180-216 (44.5 - 53.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Zeraora Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 208-248 (48.8 - 58.2%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
(if anybody still uses it)

-OTHER MOVES-

252 Atk Zeraora Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Nidoking: 119-140 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 123-145 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 204-241 (62.7 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 129-152 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 354-418 (98 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 204-240 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 158-188 (51.9 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 428-504 (59.9 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 226-266 (58.5 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Zeraora Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 208-246 (69.1 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

There are a lot more, and it's damage output isn't crazy or anything, however it is a extremely good late game cleaner, and decimates a lot of stall teams. Not many of the ground types like switching in on CC or a Knock Off. It can even be a soft check to Torn-T.
 
Am I the only one who feels like Boots Zera's damage output is kinda meh? I feel just because it can run boots, it doesn't mean it should. It seems like it's really missing out on the damage output of the boost item variants. It Unfortunately is not Ace who can boost the damage of it's coverage moves with Libero and it clearly shows in those damage calculations
 
I think what makes Boots Zeraora good is that it is hard to punish. It may not be able to break stuff as hard like Liberace does, but it allows Zeraora to just click buttons without much thought and accumulate chip damage. I can see a case for Life Orb on Spike stacking teams but otherwise it does not turn much significant 2HKOs into OHKOs and Zeraora just ends up dying too quickly to passive damage, especially in cases of misprediction. Expert Belt is decent on variants with Grass Knot, but Zeraora is otherwise hitting neutral very often to take advantage of it. Magnet is a nice boost to the power of Electric STAB, but does not provide any boost to coverage moves, which just doesn’t feel like it’s worth it over HDB. Also, Choiced variants is usually just done better by Tapu Koko imo.

Zeraora doesn’t need to deal a lot of damage per attack, because it is basically throwing out hits for free, dealing medium chunks of semi-unrecoverable damage, until defense cores start falling apart.
 
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Finchinator

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Boots Zeraora is not intended to be a breaker imo, but rather a pivot. Knock Off can help it wear out and eventually outlast Landorus-T and Garchomp. The damage output is nothing special, but it is more than enough for a Pokemon used predominantly as speed control, an Electric immunity, and a Tornadus-Therian check. It can clean and revenge kill on balance well, but it is not doing so by breaking through the sturdy walls of the tier.

It also is never meant to be compared to Cinderace imo.
 
Boots Zeraora is not intended to be a breaker imo, but rather a pivot. Knock Off can help it wear out and eventually outlast Landorus-T and Garchomp. The damage output is nothing special, but it is more than enough for a Pokemon used predominantly as speed control, an Electric immunity, and a Tornadus-Therian check. It can clean and revenge kill on balance well, but it is not doing so by breaking through the sturdy walls of the tier.

It also is never meant to be compared to Cinderace imo.
I agree with your assessment. It's hardly a Cinderace replacement but offers a number of things Cinderace could never hope to offer. It has surprising defensive utility as it's able to forgo HDB on some sets and isn't neutered as hard as Ace by losing them to Knock Off. Its own electric immunity gives it many more switch in opportunities. While Cinderace was of course an excellent wallbreaker that was great at tearing apart bulky cores, Zeraora is more of a pivot for generating momentum for its offensive teammates. Its ability to clean up frailer squads once they've been softened up is a nice bonus, too.

Edit: the value of its matchup against Dragapult of course can't be overstated either. Many offensive teams struggle considerably with this threat and Zeraora makes quick work of non Scarf sets. Zera can shrug off a Scarf hit in a pinch too.
 
Right so I have been a huge zeraora advocate still the start and I definitely think that life orb has good potential with the right team support. It is probably however the more team reliant variant of zeraora sets. Life orb gives it the boost it needs to 2HKO swampert with grass knot(even with jolly) and 80% chance to 2hko garchomp with rocks. However it more prone to getting chipped down in conjunction with hazards meaning that your opponent can just switch until your in range for say an aqua jet or something. Most of my success with LO came with pairing it with rillaboom and clefairy for passive recovery and wish passing. I mean if your weird you could even save zeraora in the back. There is definitely a lot of room for ingenuity with zeraora. Most people barely scratch the surface with it's moveset. It gets good moves like play rough, blaze kick and there is even opportunity with special sets with thunderbolt, aura sphere, and then set up with CM.
 
I think another reason Rillaboom is a good Zeraora partner is that Zeraora can really take advantage of the terrain boost with Grass Knot, which when GT-boosted, can 2HKO stuff like SpDef Hippo after a bit of chip (or if Zeraora has Life Orb or some SpA investment).
 
I agree with your assessment. It's hardly a Cinderace replacement but offers a number of things Cinderace could never hope to offer. It has surprising defensive utility as it's able to forgo HDB on some sets and isn't neutered as hard as Ace by losing them to Knock Off. Its own electric immunity gives it many more switch in opportunities. While Cinderace was of course an excellent wallbreaker that was great at tearing apart bulky cores, Zeraora is more of a pivot for generating momentum for its offensive teammates. Its ability to clean up frailer squads once they've been softened up is a nice bonus, too.

Edit: the value of its matchup against Dragapult of course can't be overstated either. Many offensive teams struggle considerably with this threat and Zeraora makes quick work of non Scarf sets. Zera can shrug off a Scarf hit in a pinch too.
That's what I'm saying, though. Boots is a great item but I wouldn't say Zera gains as much as other mons do from wearing them and therefore, doesn't lose as much from getting them knocked off. I would love to see more experimentation with that mon. I feel it definitely has much untapped potential
 
Rotom-Heat isn’t great but it’s decent. It’s not a solid counter to anything in the tier but it’s a flimsy check to so many things. It fits certain archetypes of teams, particularly the offensive volt turn teams that don’t want to get run over by tapu Koko, torn, Heatran, or sub roost kyurem. They just need one or two solid switchins. For example rotom can switch in on kyurem volt on the sub and bring in infiltrator dragapullt. I personally run WoW + volt switch + pain split + defog/t-wave. Overheat doesn’t really do anything for me, while wisp is nice to burn potential garchomp / swampert / Lando that try to switch in, volt switch for momentum obviously and pain split gives rotom a little more longevity. Defog gives the team a free slot or t-wave can be used to cripple Volcarona (which has been extremely annoying lately if you don’t have Heatran) / clef / Heatran.

it’s just an insane role compression mon that fits on certain fast paced teams. I don’t think nasty plot or even 2 attacks are great, just volt switch + 3 utility moves for ultra greed
 
:ss/weavile:

Weavile is heat. I wanna talk about it.

The two main sets I've seen going around are Choice Band with Knock Off + 3 Ice Moves/2 Ice Moves + Low Kick and Boots SD with Knock + Shard + Crash/Triple Axel. Both sets are really good at grabbing momentum off a free switch, either something like a pivot move or a hard switch on a rocks Lando/Garchomp. Because it typically forces switches into 'safe' Pokemon like Tapu Fini/Clefable/Corviknight these are the first things getting Knocked which is great for forcing your progress as these Pokemon are cut from their lefties or boots or what have you.

Current metagame trends are kind of forcing a lot of teams into the middling balance teams which is conversely what Weavile thrives upon facing. If you can incapacitate their Choice Scarf user it's generally going to go to town in endgames where things are chipped. Additionally Ice/Dark just murders so many things that it's hard to stay safe from it forever, it baits in the few checks it has because the opponent often has to go in to them in the early game. Koko/Kart/Rilla all support it well by threatening the waters that it can't remove easily, and it's not hard to add something to go for the bulky steels either.

gonna link this replay from OST, it was the game that put me on to Weavile in the first place thanks to Lord_Enz's excellent use of the Pokemon. Also plugging my team bazaar post bc it's a fun team that I think emphasizes some of Weavile's best qualities.
 

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