Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[Darkortex]

Absolutely wonderful post! For some reason, I completely forgot that Heatran learns Eruption, a complete and total brain fart on my end lol. Thank you for expanding on Sun in the areas where my post about it lacked, I'm gonna try out some of the options that you've listed! I especially love your mention of Darmanitan's raw, underappreciated Sheer Force power, along with Volcanion's good matchups with Rain. Also for bringing up Venusaur (which I stupidly forgot to do in my post as well, despite it being basically the best Chlorophyll sweeper x-x).

I would like to follow up on one of the suggestions you made in your thread under the non-fires section, Xatu. Have you considered possible role compression with Espeon? While Espeon doesn't have Defog (which can be worked around), it does have Magic Bounce for the same purpose, along with access to better recovery under Sun (Morning Sun), much better stats, and access to Weather Ball.

Espeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 44 HP / 208 Def / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Morning Sun
- Weather Ball
- Dazzling Gleam​

This is a set I've been testing for about a week now, and while it still needs tweaking in the EV department (I'm trying to have it hit certain benchmarks defensively accounting for both if sun is up or is not up), I've had a lot of positive matchups with this set in particular. Having no STAB may seem odd, but I'd rather get the jump on a predicted Hydreigon switch-in and actually be able to dent or clean weakened Tyranitar. I wish this thing got Moonblast, but Dazzling Gleam is still decent.

Unfortunately espeon is not a good magic bounce user on sun teams or otherwise. Its physical frailty makes it unable to switch into the most common stealth rock setter in the tier, landorus-t, while struggling against others such as garchomp, heatran, hippowdon, etc. Case in point:

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 44 HP / 208 Def Espeon: 169-199 (59.9 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Since morning sun has only 8 PP, lando can spam u-turn or earthquake until espeon is either forced out or KOed, keeping up rocks afterward.

Furthermore, it exacerbates weaknesses to lando-t, dragapult, heatran, and other already problematic threats to sun.

 

[Morkal]

Unfortunately espeon is not a good magic bounce user on sun teams or otherwise. Its physical frailty makes it unable to switch into the most common stealth rock setter in the tier, landorus-t, while struggling against others such as garchomp, heatran, hippowdon, etc. Case in point:

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 44 HP / 208 Def Espeon: 169-199 (59.9 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Since morning sun has only 8 PP, lando can spam u-turn or earthquake until espeon is either forced out or KOed, keeping up rocks afterward.

Furthermore, it exacerbates weaknesses to lando-t, dragapult, heatran, and other already problematic threats to sun.

Yeah, that's the problem I've been trying to get around, honestly, Espeon lacks some extremely crucial tools to do exactly what I want it to do, but the speed and potential damage output along with Magic Bounce are so appealing to me I've been trying to make it work. Specifically the Physical EVs I've been trying to have Espeon be just strong enough to avoid a 2HKO from certain priority using Pokemon (or avoid OHKOs in some cases).

It's frustrating looking at Espeon sometimes, but I personally find Xatu to be just way too passive against particular threats with my team builds generally. Xatu is objectively the better Pokemon though, 100% agree with you on that. I'm just a huge fan of offensive role compression so I guess I'm letting my bias get the better of me here.

 

[BoomFantastic]

Hey, I wanna join in on the long posts

Look at him. Poor thing, he's so lonely when his only friend is a cold fox. Let's think of some new friends for him, yeah?

Arctozolt Partners in SS OU
​

By now, it's common knowledge that Hail is the most malleable Weather, with many Hail teams sharing nothing in common besides Arctozolt and Alolatales. However, as the trend develops further, I expect that we're going to see a certain cast of Pokemon which become mainstays on Hail teams. I'm aware that Hail will never have teams as "formulaic" as Rain or Sand, but I'm just going to dump some ideas here regarding those Pokemon, what they offer to help Arctozolt and maybe what Zolt offers in return.
(Alolatales doesn't count here since it's pretty much a given, though I will mention that Vanilluxe gets Taunt while Tales-Alola doesn't, if you really really need that move.)


Magnezone:

This, I believe, is the most integral Zolt partner outside of Hail setters. The reason is quite simple: People realised that Ferrothorn and Melmetal don't get OHKOed by Arctozolt's STABs, so they run them to form the brunt of their Hail matchup, and Magnezone simply has to sneeze in their general direction to dispose of them. Iron Defense, Body Press and Thunderbolt are necessities but the last slot is flexible, Sub + Leftovers and Toxic + Chople Berry both work just fine although I lean more to Chople Berry since disposing of Melmetal is made much easier when you can eat a Superpower. With those out of the way, Arctozolt finds itself freed up tremendously and can start clicking its STABs with reckless abandon.

Melmetal Calcs

252+ Atk Melmetal Superpower vs. 108 HP / 252+ Def Chople Berry Magnezone: 102-120 (33.1 - 38.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Melmetal Superpower vs. +2 108 HP / 252+ Def Magnezone: 68-82 (22 - 26.6%) -- 17.5% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ Def Magnezone Body Press vs. -1 40 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 386-456 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

If you set up another Iron Defense,

-2 252+ Atk Melmetal Superpower vs. +4 108 HP / 252+ Def Magnezone: 34-42 (11 - 13.6%) -- possible 8HKO
+4 252+ Def Magnezone Body Press vs. -2 40 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 770-908 (182.8 - 215.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(Calcs for AV are very similar)

Defog Users:

Arctozolt runs HDB, we already know that, but running Defog, or more specifically Double Defog, on your Hail team has some interesting ripple effects on what you can afford to do with your Zolt and Tales. For starters, Ninetales needs its Icy Rock over Boots, and not having to worry about that 25% per entry gives Ninetales that much more room to breathe, and lets you run offensive Nasty Plot sets without fear of dying immediately when you get forced out. A particular favorite of mine is NP + Veil + Freeze-Dry + Moonblast, packing both power and utility depending on what the situation calls for while blowing past Swampert and Gastrodon with Freeze-Dry.

Just as importantly though, running Double Defog means that Arctozolt can afford to trade the Timbs for another item, specifically Leftovers. Arctozolt is most effective behind a Substitute, and running lefties over boots gives you the luxury of being able to set up more than 4 substitutes over the course of the game, as well as heal off the self-inflicted chip damage which puts you in a much better position against opposing priority moves. Leftovers is just a very good item on Zolt, and given how most Defoggers fit well on Hail the opportunity cost of not having boots isn't as great as it seems.

As far as the foggers themselves go, y'all already know what Corviknight and SpD Landorus do, but I will elaborate a bit on Tornadus since it goes hand-in-hand with Hail. Besides Defog, its access to Taunt can come in handy, Heat Wave catches Ferrothorn if your opponent is playing very carefully to prevent a Zone trap, and Weather Ball gives it a 100% accurate move to click under Hail and deal good damage to most targets, notably severely weakening Landorus that think they're safe staying in. Regenerator also lets it negate Hail damage, which is useful.

Future Sight:

Taking a broader approach to the "help break what Arctozolt can falter against" idea than Magnezone, Sight support can prove to be quite useful here, turning 2HKOes into OHKOes. Granted, this is more theoretical, since I haven't seen Sight+Zolt in action in any tour setting or such, but the general idea here is thwarting metagame developments that threaten to weaken Arctozolt's performance (at least, developments that Magnezone doesn't eat for lunch). The main offenders are Slowking-Galar, obviously, and Tapu Lele, which has been seen on Hail wielding the Scarf set that could really appreciate Sight as a filler move for tougher situations (because, let's be real, what even is the point of Scarf Focus Blast).

Kyurem:

As tempting as it is to click Modest Specs Blizzard under Hail, Kyurem finds its SubRoost variant better suited to this style. SubRoost Kyurem's use of Freeze-Dry as its Ice STAB helps it remove Water/Ground types which Arctozolt enjoys since it'd rather run the higher-powered Blizzard, and Hail chip comes in really handy when wearing down switch-ins, which can help Arctozolt pull off a late-game sweep. I won't go on about this much longer; we've all seen Dragon Claw's Hail by now.

Volcarona Answers:

This is more of a brief mention, but when you're running so many Ice and Steel-types on one team (think Zolt, Tales, Corv, and Zone together), Volcarona becomes a huge issue, so having a Pokemon that can prevent it from coming in and winning for free is appreciated. Both of these pokemon can serve as Stealth Rock users on Hail, and although Swampert is past its prime in the metagame, it can still provide utility outside of checking Volc with its combination of Yawn and Flip Turn.

Tapu Koko:

Also a brief mention since it's niche on Hail and harder to slot onto teams, but Electric Terrain-boosted Bolt Beak is nightmarish and that terrain lets you reallocate EV's into SpA for stronger Blizzards without missing out on any electrocuting power.

Volcanion:

A special mention has to go to this Pokemon before I finish. Remember when I mentioned Ferro and Melm as Arctozolt counterplay? Magnezone and Scizor have been seeing use as anti-Zolt measures as well, and guess what roasts all four to a crisp? It isn't able to trap any of them, but that doesn't matter since Specs Volcanion abuses the switches it forces from these Steels to drop brutally powerful Steam Eruptions that cleave through common defensive Pokemon, backed up by useful coverage in Earth Power and Sludge Wave. It also gets Weather Ball which can knock a Dragon looking to take one of its STABs into next week, although it's hard to drop the other moves for it. One more thing, Fire/Water typing allows it to act as an offensive Volcarona check, which Hail teams appreciate as I mentioned.

Volcarona Calcs

+1 16 SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcanion: 139-164 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 378-446 (101.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So, those were my thoughts regarding some Pokemon which I expect will establish themselves as commonly-seen partners to Arctozolt and Hail in general. If you're going to take only one thing away from my wall of text, it's run Magnezone on Hail, but besides that I really want to hear which mons you guys think synergize nicely with our chilly electric dinosaur and will become more associated with Hail as time goes on. That's all I have to say, enjoy spamming Hail teams!

 

[Red Raven]

On the topic of sun teams, I think that Mandibuzz should be a staple on those teams as it offers a lot of utility for them and with defog, it provides sun teams with another option for hazard removal. Garchomp is one of the biggest threats to sun and if it gets an sd, it's almost always going to get a kill. Worse, if it gets two scale shots, then your Venusaur just becomes another victim. It also ensures Dragapult isn't having a field day and combined with Heatran, you turn the game into russian roulette against Blacephalon. Russian roulette still isn't nice but at least you make them think twice. Same goes for Lele who can otherwise just rip sun teams apart with psychic as offensive Heatran dies to two of those

 

[pulsar512b]

Hey, I wanna join in on the long posts

Look at him. Poor thing, he's so lonely when his only friend is a cold fox. Let's think of some new friends for him, yeah?

Arctozolt Partners in SS OU
​

By now, it's common knowledge that Hail is the most malleable Weather, with many Hail teams sharing nothing in common besides Arctozolt and Alolatales. However, as the trend develops further, I expect that we're going to see a certain cast of Pokemon which become mainstays on Hail teams. I'm aware that Hail will never have teams as "formulaic" as Rain or Sand, but I'm just going to dump some ideas here regarding those Pokemon, what they offer to help Arctozolt and maybe what Zolt offers in return.
(Alolatales doesn't count here since it's pretty much a given, though I will mention that Vanilluxe gets Taunt while Tales-Alola doesn't, if you really really need that move.)


Magnezone:

This, I believe, is the most integral Zolt partner outside of Hail setters. The reason is quite simple: People realised that Ferrothorn and Melmetal don't get OHKOed by Arctozolt's STABs, so they run them to form the brunt of their Hail matchup, and Magnezone simply has to sneeze in their general direction to dispose of them. Iron Defense, Body Press and Thunderbolt are necessities but the last slot is flexible, Sub + Leftovers and Toxic + Chople Berry both work just fine although I lean more to Chople Berry since disposing of Melmetal is made much easier when you can eat a Superpower. With those out of the way, Arctozolt finds itself freed up tremendously and can start clicking its STABs with reckless abandon.

Melmetal Calcs

252+ Atk Melmetal Superpower vs. 108 HP / 252+ Def Chople Berry Magnezone: 102-120 (33.1 - 38.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Melmetal Superpower vs. +2 108 HP / 252+ Def Magnezone: 68-82 (22 - 26.6%) -- 17.5% chance to 4HKO
+2 252+ Def Magnezone Body Press vs. -1 40 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 386-456 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

If you set up another Iron Defense,

-2 252+ Atk Melmetal Superpower vs. +4 108 HP / 252+ Def Magnezone: 34-42 (11 - 13.6%) -- possible 8HKO
+4 252+ Def Magnezone Body Press vs. -2 40 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 770-908 (182.8 - 215.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(Calcs for AV are very similar)

Defog Users:

Arctozolt runs HDB, we already know that, but running Defog, or more specifically Double Defog, on your Hail team has some interesting ripple effects on what you can afford to do with your Zolt and Tales. For starters, Ninetales needs its Icy Rock over Boots, and not having to worry about that 25% per entry gives Ninetales that much more room to breathe, and lets you run offensive Nasty Plot sets without fear of dying immediately when you get forced out. A particular favorite of mine is NP + Veil + Freeze-Dry + Moonblast, packing both power and utility depending on what the situation calls for while blowing past Swampert and Gastrodon with Freeze-Dry.

Just as importantly though, running Double Defog means that Arctozolt can afford to trade the Timbs for another item, specifically Leftovers. Arctozolt is most effective behind a Substitute, and running lefties over boots gives you the luxury of being able to set up more than 4 substitutes over the course of the game, as well as heal off the self-inflicted chip damage which puts you in a much better position against opposing priority moves. Leftovers is just a very good item on Zolt, and given how most Defoggers fit well on Hail the opportunity cost of not having boots isn't as great as it seems.

As far as the foggers themselves go, y'all already know what Corviknight and SpD Landorus do, but I will elaborate a bit on Tornadus since it goes hand-in-hand with Hail. Besides Defog, its access to Taunt can come in handy, Heat Wave catches Ferrothorn if your opponent is playing very carefully to prevent a Zone trap, and Weather Ball gives it a 100% accurate move to click under Hail and deal good damage to most targets, notably severely weakening Landorus that think they're safe staying in. Regenerator also lets it negate Hail damage, which is useful.

Future Sight:

Taking a broader approach to the "help break what Arctozolt can falter against" idea than Magnezone, Sight support can prove to be quite useful here, turning 2HKOes into OHKOes. Granted, this is more theoretical, since I haven't seen Sight+Zolt in action in any tour setting or such, but the general idea here is thwarting metagame developments that threaten to weaken Arctozolt's performance (at least, developments that Magnezone doesn't eat for lunch). The main offenders are Slowking-Galar, obviously, and Tapu Lele, which has been seen on Hail wielding the Scarf set that could really appreciate Sight as a filler move for tougher situations (because, let's be real, what even is the point of Scarf Focus Blast).

Kyurem:

As tempting as it is to click Modest Specs Blizzard under Hail, Kyurem finds its SubRoost variant better suited to this style. SubRoost Kyurem's use of Freeze-Dry as its Ice STAB helps it remove Water/Ground types which Arctozolt enjoys since it'd rather run the higher-powered Blizzard, and Hail chip comes in really handy when wearing down switch-ins, which can help Arctozolt pull off a late-game sweep. I won't go on about this much longer; we've all seen Dragon Claw's Hail by now.

Volcarona Answers:

This is more of a brief mention, but when you're running so many Ice and Steel-types on one team (think Zolt, Tales, Corv, and Zone together), Volcarona becomes a huge issue, so having a Pokemon that can prevent it from coming in and winning for free is appreciated. Both of these pokemon can serve as Stealth Rock users on Hail, and although Swampert is past its prime in the metagame, it can still provide utility outside of checking Volc with its combination of Yawn and Flip Turn.

Tapu Koko:

Also a brief mention since it's niche on Hail and harder to slot onto teams, but Electric Terrain-boosted Bolt Beak is nightmarish and that terrain lets you reallocate EV's into SpA for stronger Blizzards without missing out on any electrocuting power.

Volcanion:

A special mention has to go to this Pokemon before I finish. Remember when I mentioned Ferro and Melm as Arctozolt counterplay? Magnezone and Scizor have been seeing use as anti-Zolt measures as well, and guess what roasts all four to a crisp? It isn't able to trap any of them, but that doesn't matter since Specs Volcanion abuses the switches it forces from these Steels to drop brutally powerful Steam Eruptions that cleave through common defensive Pokemon, backed up by useful coverage in Earth Power and Sludge Wave. It also gets Weather Ball which can knock a Dragon looking to take one of its STABs into next week, although it's hard to drop the other moves for it. One more thing, Fire/Water typing allows it to act as an offensive Volcarona check, which Hail teams appreciate as I mentioned.

Volcarona Calcs

+1 16 SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcanion: 139-164 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 378-446 (101.3 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So, those were my thoughts regarding some Pokemon which I expect will establish themselves as commonly-seen partners to Arctozolt and Hail in general. If you're going to take only one thing away from my wall of text, it's run Magnezone on Hail, but besides that I really want to hear which mons you guys think synergize nicely with our chilly electric dinosaur and will become more associated with Hail as time goes on. That's all I have to say, enjoy spamming Hail teams!

IMO you sorta have to run freeze dry on your Arctozolt, because otherwise Gastrodon and Swampert can just infinitely check you without any problems. While you can sorta deal with it w teammates, it's.. pretty hard. In all honesty, I think Gastrodon is one of the biggest problems for hail in general, despite being weak to freeze dry.
4 SpA Life Orb Arctozolt Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 302-359 (70.8 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
it can easily scout (plus remember most run hdb not lo, so it's even better), and kill with earth power (BTW physdef gastro bad dont use it lol)
4 SpA Life Orb Arctozolt Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 117-138 (27.4 - 32.3%) -- 61.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
will prolly write a longer post on gastro soonish

 

[pulsar512b]

will prolly write a longer post on gastro soonish

The Gastrodon Manifesto
Why do you use gastro?
The big reason why is it beats both Dragapult and electric types, which provides fantastic role compression (and! it beats both better than most of the "traditional" checks to them, such as Weavile and lando respectively). It also happens to have good matchups against much of the rest of the metagame to boot.

An example is this team https://pokepast.es/d569c3e218f03519 (pretty good, got to top 50 w this)
(Feel free to use it, I'll be writing a RMT on it soonish).
Note how it serves as my primary means of dealing with electrics, heatran, and dragapult all in one small package. That amount of role compression is just unbelievable. Also the help with arctozolt is.. nice ig.

What set?
IMO you should always run scald and recover. For the 3rd slot, earth power and earthquake are both viable options, and for the last slot you can go either clear smog or toxic. EQ helps against the slowtwins, while earth power helps versus bulk up zeraora. Clear smog helps versus volcarona and CM fini, while toxic helps versus literally everything else.
Physdef or Spdef?
let's go, spdef gastrodon propaganda time

Note that a lot of these mons toxapex and other bulky waters struggle to check over time.
This is basically a list of the stuff that it checks both ways- I'm gonna explain first of all some of the questionable ones and why:


You need it to not have the rare option giga drain, and if you have clear smog it's relatively easy to check. However, I think that's somewhat of a ehhh move. Toxic does help versus it however. IMO gastro shouldn't be your only check to it, but it'll do in a pinch.

Scarf can trick you, defensive can't do crap, and CM depends on you having clear smog. Sorta eh, same deal as volcarona tbh.

This has a question mark for spdef due to iron defense body press doing a good bit.

Draco does enough over 2 turns to make it relatively easy to wear down if it's physdef. I decided to not list it for that, but it's kinda optional ig.

I didn't put this on either, since freeze dry does a ton to both variants. However,
4 SpA Life Orb Arctozolt Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 426-504 (100 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
while spdef doesn't die, so you want spdef.

either can handle it fine, just be wary of bulk up reducing eq damage and doing a lot with cc at +1

band can sometimes kill physdef
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 190-224 (44.6 - 52.5%) -- approx. 17.2% chance to 2HKO
dont use it as your primary check, fine as an emergency again, and plus most arent band anyway afaik (plus if lefties the calc gets way better)

spdef rolls over to CC, but can still be useful if it locks into a water move.

Huge threat, any gastro beats it easy.

Huger threat, physdef rolls over, spdef doesn't. This is honestly the main reason you should be using gastrodon imo.

Neither gastro can beat, but they can swap into the surging strikes on a prediction and that's huge


TLDR:
I think it's pretty clear that the main tradeoff here is beating barraskewda and melmetal more (and ig zera too?), while beating basically everything else better with spdef, including dragapult (the main reason I think Gastrodon is good rn).

but heat spread :(
fine i'll make a mixed spread for yall
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 212 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Toxic
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Gastrodon: 337-398 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- not a KO (after rocks+lefties)
Guess the extra def might help it with zeraora or something, probably not really worth caring about- I personally just run full spdef.

something something sticky hold/hdb

thats trash (sticky hold)
the water immunity is huge to help pivot around some threats, and can block flip turns.
also helps vs the random kingdra or whatever other water attacker you run into.

hdb is an interesting idea, but I don't believe in it. Avoiding spikes and especially tspikes is very nice, but feels too niche.

Anyway, bye, and also pink slug best. Wish yall the best with your new sluggy friend, and thank you for reading to the end. Feel free to ask any questions here (or if you prefer, dms are also fine)

 

[Magcargo]

Lately I have been using Landorus-Therian more and I'm starting to see why its the best Pokemon in the tier. Before, I thought it was pretty overrated. It has shaky speed, bad match-ups against some big threats like Urshifu-R and Kyurem, gets worn down pretty easily, doesn't have "free" matchups against stuff like Heatran and Galar Slowking (it wins 1v1, but you can't switch him in for free basically). Most of this still holds true and if we talking about some hypothetical OU metagame, where viability was based purely on a Pokemon's match-up charts, I don't think Landorus-Therian would be the best. However, there in lies the problem with my prior assessment of Landorus-Therian's viability. While match-ups are an important part of the game, they are not the only deciding factor. Landorus-T itself is not some unbreakable or unwallable god and it doesn't have perfect match-ups against some of the stuff you'd like it to, but that's completely fine since that's not where its strength comes from. Where its strength comes from is improving the match-ups of other Pokemon on your team.

To give an example, lets look at two Pokemon that have been ravaging the metagame lately: Weavile and Arctozolt. Landorus-T's matchups against these two at first glance is pretty bad. However, its still extremely useful in alleviating the pressure these two would exert otherwise precisely due to Intimidate.

Under normal circumstances, CB Weavile would be able to 2HKO Physically Defensive Corviknight with Triple Axel. However, Intimidate support turns this otherwise guaranteed 2HKO into a 3HKO (even when accounting for factors like Stealth Rock & no Leftovers. Similarly, Physically defensive Scizor has a much easier time has a much easier time weathering Weavile's assaults with Intimidate support.

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 210-252 (52.5 - 63%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 144-171 (36 - 42.7%) -- approx. 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Scizor: 174-205 (50.7 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Scizor: 117-138 (34.1 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

For Arctozolt, it would normally OHKO Rocky Helmet Corviknight with Bolt Beak after Hail Damage. However, with Intimidate support, Corviknight is able to take the hit, with some health to spare. This isn't great admittingly since Corviknight is still heavily damaged, but it still is useful since it burns arctozolt's Hail and Aurora Veil turns and lets Corviknight deal some Extra chip to Arctozolt with Rocky Helmet or waste Blizzard PP. Scizor goes from being a shaky Arctozolt check to a counter.

252 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 348-410 (87 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 230-272 (57.5 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Scizor: 178-211 (51.8 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Scizor: 118-141 (34.4 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

The situations I outlined above are just some of many situations where Landorus-T's is able to contribute to its team massively in-spite of having poor match-ups against the threat in question. Another common scenario where Landorus-T is useful is against set up sweepers like Garchomp and Scizor, since Intimidate helps prevent these sweepers from boosting out of control and it can damage / weaken them enough with Toxic / EQ to the point where they are unable to sweep.

Another nice thing about Landorus-T is U-Turn. While it has a harder time actually switching into stuff like Heatran and G-King, when it actually is able to get it, its option select is better than something like Garchomp since it can immediately go into something like Tapu Koko should the opponent switch to Corviknight.

As I said before, Landorus-T absolutely does have its weaknesses. However, it is also one of those Pokemon that has near universal utility thanks to intimidate and can play around its weaknesses while supporting its team at the same time. Even in match-ups where it should be completely useless, its still able to make great contributions to its team. Landorus-T actually reminds me a lot of Scizor back when it was UU. There were a lot match-ups I remember experiencing where, by all accounts Scizor should have contributed nothing, like against Sun teams. However, as the match progresses, stuff gets worn down by Stealth Rock, Scizor is able to grab a Swords Dance boost against something like Chansey, and Scizor goes from useless to the main reason I was able to win the game. Landorus-T, similarly, can also enable game-winning moves, albeit more passively with Intimidate support.

 

[ausma]

Hello, everyone! I wanted to kick off my first formal post here as your new OU Forum Leader alongside Ruft. I want to thank you all for the support you've given me and I will do my best to serve you all. As always, if you have concerns or anything you need from us, never hesitate to send us a VM and we will be happy to accommodate.

In any case; I've been letting a thought fester quite a bit lately, and to further my research I decided to bringing up an interesting talking point that I haven't really seen people mention much as of late if really at all. Especially now with SCL on the horizon, I think now's a good a time as any:

Tapu Lele



Tapu Lele is a very infamous Pokemon from its two generations of being a terrorizing wallbreaker. Even with the terrain nerf in Generation 8, it's a Pokemon that's always been difficult to keep truly at bay between its great assortment coverage, access to Calm Mind, and a fantastic dual STAB combination reinforced by Psychic Terrain. In general I am very surprised to have seen such little discussion about it because of how much it actually impacts the landscape of special walls in the metagame. To approach this subject, I am going to break down a few points as to how Tapu Lele operates as both a wallbreaker and as a presence in the teambuilder.

I would like to preface this by first saying: I do not at this time believe Tapu Lele is banworthy or suspect worthy, however I do believe in what's an otherwise well balanced metagame, Tapu Lele stands out the most to me as a Pokemon that's worth investigating further.

1: As a wallbreaker

Tapu Lele is a Pokemon that has succeeded for its abilities as a wallbreaker--this isn't exactly a surprise to anybody. In fact, there are many different wallbreakers that the tier has at its disposal. There are options such as Blacephalon, Kyurem, Volcanion, Kartana, and Urshifu-R to name a few, and all are really potent threats capable of breaking consistently and/or forcing progress through sheer power and powerful midground options. Tapu Lele is among these threats, of course, as a Pokemon equipped with superb breaking abilities and access to spammable STABs. However, unlike its competition, Tapu Lele's access to STAB Psyshock makes Blissey and Galarian Slowking a non issue, too, and given that its a STAB reinforced by its terrain, it's not really much of a sacrifice (if one at all) to click if it has it, which is a prominent standout as a special wallbreaker. Furthermore, considering it has access to Focus Blast, Future Sight, and Thunderbolt as well, it becomes an even greater risk to try and play around it when it is geared with great options to revenge kill and pressure Pokemon that it may otherwise have a difficult time taking advantage of. Tapu Lele is no slouch, in short.

However, although the execution of wallbreakers appears very clear cut on paper, it's imperative to consider that a wallbreaker's ability to succeed is only as prosperous as weighted comparatively by the support they need from teammates and give in return. In other words, if a wallbreaker's wallbreaking abilities are worth the support necessary to make them operate consistently. For Tapu Lele, it is a fairly safe yes, because it lacks any distinct hazard weakness in comparison to its special wallbreaking competition, giving it a similar payoff with a less steep cost. Kyurem, Blacephalon, and Volcanion are often times kept in check by having their switch-in opportunities limited by Stealth Rock and more often than not necessitate the use of removal cores in order to consistently operate on a game-to-game basis. Although these Pokemon are worth their cost, Tapu Lele is unique in the sense that it is the only special wallbreaker of note that does not necessarily need removal cores due to a distinct Stealth Rock neutrality, not only giving it more breaking opportunities, but also letting its breaking power be more readily reinforced by other offensive teammates as well as its own entry hazards like Spikes or Stealth Rock, which can make it increasingly difficult for its standard checks to repeatedly check it.

--

To highlight my points with a direct comparison, I would like to explore Kyurem more in depth, a very powerful special wallbreaker in the tier that is often times compared directly with Tapu Lele mainly because they are checked by roughly similar things and have a similar power level. As stated previously, Kyurem's wallbreaking opportunities are very contingent on the presence of entry hazards and need extensive removal support to be maximized, and it is also fairly prediction reliant, too. It is inconvenienced by bulky Water-types and needs to use Freeze-Dry in order to break them, and against Steel-types it is forced into coverage to threaten them consistently. Furthermore, when you factor in how its wallbreaking opportunities are very positioning reliant due to its Stealth Rock weakness, this becomes a greater and greater issue for it, and predicting correctly becomes more important.

While the same is somewhat true for Tapu Lele, its less demanding conditions for wallbreaking opportunities as well as its consistent pressure against Steel-types due to not needing removal support mean that it has more (and in some cases more fruitful) opportunities to pierce holes into its checks. This is to the point where, while coverage can be helpful in revenge killing Steel-types and forcing prediction mind games, coverage isn't as instrumental to its success. On top of this, considering how it has other kinds of options like Future Sight on Choice Scarf variants or foregoing a choice item and going for Calm Mind boosts to take advantage of their forced switch-ins and/or ease prediction outright, Tapu Lele is not anywhere near as reliant on getting every turn right as Kyurem is, and it has several great midground options anyway.

2: In the teambuilder

To begin this section, it's important to emphasize just how important Steel-type Pokemon actually are in this metagame, to the point where it's not at all uncommon to see teams feature a couple. This is in part because Steel-type Pokemon that are available, such as Corviknight and Heatran, tend to work well together by covering weak points against certain coverage options, and it is also because of how well they alleviate a lot of pressure off of one another as Steel-types. The latter reason is particularly important because, no matter how we slice it, Steel-types deal with a lot, and not having to keep a ton of different threats in check at once is prominent toward any defensive backbone's ability to succeed; double Steel-type cores are no different. Tapu Lele is not necessarily the only Pokemon that Steel-types are out to check, but it is a prominent one. However, there are only two special wallbreakers in the tier that Steel-types in particular are consistently tasked to check: Kyurem and, of course, Tapu Lele.

So, let me get to the point: where am I going with all of this? Tapu Lele's situation is unique because Steel-types are the only Pokemon besides Victini and Slowking that truly and consistently switch into its STABs. With this kind of pressure on Steel-types to keep its otherwise spammable STABs at bay, and its lack of needing constant support to even come on the field in the first place, teams are far more strapped to have specially-augmented reinforcement that doesn't take away from a Steel-type's ability to check other threats like Weavile. However, the issue here is that, without stacking Steel-types, doing that is really hard, especially without Magearna in the metagame which would make this much, much easier. As I said earlier, Victini is the only non-Steel-type that resists Tapu Lele's STAB combination, and Slowking is the only truly reliable special wall resistant to Psychic-type moves. This makes it so teams without Victini are particularly reliant on their Steel-types to dissuade Tapu Lele from clicking its STABs. Slowking on the other hand may be able to take its hits, but given how well it can be exploited with status, U-turn, and Knock Off, it's not really hard to exert pressure against it and then just keep clicking Moonblast and sometimes even Psyshock until it just can't keep pivoting. When you also consider the climate in which Victini and Slowking have to operate in and their game-to-game weaknesses, slotting them in without reinforcing a team's weakness to particular threats is really hard.

In execution, what tends to happen a lot is that Steel-types are consistently tasked to be the Tapu Lele switch-in in the builder, and in doing so, several Steel-types can be stacked, and very frequently with notable special defense investment (i.e: Heatran, Ferrothorn, Melmetal, Scizor, sometimes Corviknight). On teams with only one bulky Steel-type, that said Steel-type is forced to have a solid (or at least noticeable) amount of special defense investment to reliably check Tapu Lele unless the team features Victini or Slowking. With that Steel-type, you'll see other dedicated checks to keep as much pressure off of Steel-types as possible in checking threats like Weavile or Scizor just to ensure a consistent matchup against Tapu Lele and Kyurem.

Without a doubt Tapu Lele impacts the way in which Steel-types operate in the builder, and to a degree this can impact how efficient a Steel-type is at checking other threats that they're often tasked to handle. Whether this is to a problematic extent, I cannot say at this time. However, I do believe it is worth observing because it shows that Tapu Lele exerts a very unique kind of pressure on Steel-types in the builder between the above observations and its greater opportunities to repeatedly chip away at them unlike Kyurem, so much so that common Steel-type backbones are pigeonholed into certain playstyles or cores to ensure a consistent matchup against Tapu Lele defensively, while not screwing themselves over against other threats.

---

To conclude this giant post, I want to again make clear that I'm not sure if I think Tapu Lele is truly an issue or not, but I would like to hear your thoughts on it! We're in a surprisingly great metagame at this time, but I think it's always good to think about the trends that lead us to build the way we do, and whether or not there's something we are being complacent about.

However, in general, I encourage you all to think about the way in which wallbreakers interact with one another in the metagame as we head into our next big team tour. Even if you don't believe Tapu Lele in particular to be much of an issue, I think it's important to consider that there are a lot of threats that balances are tasked to handle at a given time. I ask you to think about why you are building the way you are currently, for you to think about what leads you to perform the way you do against the landscape of offensive threats in the tier, and even how you may use those wallbreakers yourself.

Thank you all for reading this stupid big post; have a great rest of your weekend!

 

[Plushietran]

Hello, everyone! I wanted to kick off my first formal post here as your new OU Forum Leader alongside Ruft. I want to thank you all for the support you've given me and I will do my best to serve you all. As always, if you have concerns or anything you need from us, never hesitate to send us a VM and we will be happy to accommodate.

In any case; I've been letting a thought fester quite a bit lately, and to further my research I decided to bringing up an interesting talking point that I haven't really seen people mention much as of late if really at all. Especially now with SCL on the horizon, I think now's a good a time as any:

Tapu Lele



Tapu Lele is a very infamous Pokemon from its two generations of being a terrorizing wallbreaker. Even with the terrain nerf in Generation 8, it's a Pokemon that's always been difficult to keep truly at bay between its great assortment coverage, access to Calm Mind, and a fantastic dual STAB combination reinforced by Psychic Terrain. In general I am very surprised to have seen such little discussion about it because of how much it actually impacts the landscape of special walls in the metagame. To approach this subject, I am going to break down a few points as to how Tapu Lele operates as both a wallbreaker and as a presence in the teambuilder.

I would like to preface this by first saying: I do not at this time believe Tapu Lele is banworthy or suspect worthy, however I do believe in what's an otherwise well balanced metagame, Tapu Lele stands out the most to me as a Pokemon that's worth investigating further.

1: As a wallbreaker

Tapu Lele is a Pokemon that has succeeded for its abilities as a wallbreaker--this isn't exactly a surprise to anybody. In fact, there are many different wallbreakers that the tier has at its disposal. There are options such as Blacephalon, Kyurem, Volcanion, Kartana, and Urshifu-R to name a few, and all are really potent threats capable of breaking consistently and/or forcing progress through sheer power and powerful midground options. Tapu Lele is among these threats, of course, as a Pokemon equipped with superb breaking abilities and access to spammable STABs. However, unlike its competition, Tapu Lele's access to STAB Psyshock makes Blissey and Galarian Slowking a non issue, too, and given that its a STAB reinforced by its terrain, it's not really much of a sacrifice (if one at all) to click if it has it, which is a prominent standout as a special wallbreaker. Furthermore, considering it has access to Focus Blast, Future Sight, and Thunderbolt as well, it becomes an even greater risk to try and play around it when it is geared with great options to revenge kill and pressure Pokemon that it may otherwise have a difficult time taking advantage of. Tapu Lele is no slouch, in short.

However, although the execution of wallbreakers appears very clear cut on paper, it's imperative to consider that a wallbreaker's ability to succeed is only as prosperous as weighted comparatively by the support they need from teammates and give in return. In other words, if a wallbreaker's wallbreaking abilities are worth the support necessary to make them operate consistently. For Tapu Lele, it is a fairly safe yes, because it lacks any distinct hazard weakness in comparison to its special wallbreaking competition, giving it a similar payoff with a less steep cost. Kyurem, Blacephalon, and Volcanion are often times kept in check by having their switch-in opportunities limited by Stealth Rock and more often than not necessitate the use of removal cores in order to consistently operate on a game-to-game basis. Although these Pokemon are worth their cost, Tapu Lele is unique in the sense that it is the only special wallbreaker of note that does not necessarily need removal cores due to a distinct Stealth Rock neutrality, not only giving it more breaking opportunities, but also letting its breaking power be more readily reinforced by other offensive teammates as well as its own entry hazards like Spikes or Stealth Rock, which can make it increasingly difficult for its standard checks to repeatedly check it.

--

To highlight my points with a direct comparison, I would like to explore Kyurem more in depth, a very powerful special wallbreaker in the tier that is often times compared directly with Tapu Lele mainly because they are checked by roughly similar things and have a similar power level. As stated previously, Kyurem's wallbreaking opportunities are very contingent on the presence of entry hazards and need extensive removal support to be maximized, and it is also fairly prediction reliant, too. It is inconvenienced by bulky Water-types and needs to use Freeze-Dry in order to break them, and against Steel-types it is forced into coverage to threaten them consistently. Furthermore, when you factor in how its wallbreaking opportunities are very positioning reliant due to its Stealth Rock weakness, this becomes a greater and greater issue for it, and predicting correctly becomes more important.

While the same is somewhat true for Tapu Lele, its less demanding conditions for wallbreaking opportunities as well as its consistent pressure against Steel-types due to not needing removal support mean that it has more (and in some cases more fruitful) opportunities to pierce holes into its checks. This is to the point where, while coverage can be helpful in revenge killing Steel-types and forcing prediction mind games, coverage isn't as instrumental to its success. On top of this, considering how it has other kinds of options like Future Sight on Choice Scarf variants or foregoing a choice item and going for Calm Mind boosts to take advantage of their forced switch-ins and/or ease prediction outright, Tapu Lele is not anywhere near as reliant on getting every turn right as Kyurem is, and it has several great midground options anyway.

2: In the teambuilder

To begin this section, it's important to emphasize just how important Steel-type Pokemon actually are in this metagame, to the point where it's not at all uncommon to see teams feature a couple. This is in part because Steel-type Pokemon that are available, such as Corviknight and Heatran, tend to work well together by covering weak points against certain coverage options, and it is also because of how well they alleviate a lot of pressure off of one another as Steel-types. The latter reason is particularly important because, no matter how we slice it, Steel-types deal with a lot, and not having to keep a ton of different threats in check at once is prominent toward any defensive backbone's ability to succeed; double Steel-type cores are no different. Tapu Lele is not necessarily the only Pokemon that Steel-types are out to check, but it is a prominent one. However, there are only two special wallbreakers in the tier that Steel-types in particular are consistently tasked to check: Kyurem and, of course, Tapu Lele.

So, let me get to the point: where am I going with all of this? Tapu Lele's situation is unique because Steel-types are the only Pokemon besides Victini and Slowking that truly and consistently switch into its STABs. With this kind of pressure on Steel-types to keep its otherwise spammable STABs at bay, and its lack of needing constant support to even come on the field in the first place, teams are far more strapped to have specially-augmented reinforcement that doesn't take away from a Steel-type's ability to check other threats like Weavile. However, the issue here is that, without stacking Steel-types, doing that is really hard, especially without Magearna in the metagame which would make this much, much easier. As I said earlier, Victini is the only non-Steel-type that resists Tapu Lele's STAB combination, and Slowking is the only truly reliable special wall resistant to Psychic-type moves. This makes it so teams without Victini are particularly reliant on their Steel-types to dissuade Tapu Lele from clicking its STABs. Slowking on the other hand may be able to take its hits, but given how well it can be exploited with status, U-turn, and Knock Off, it's not really hard to exert pressure against it and then just keep clicking Moonblast and sometimes even Psyshock until it just can't keep pivoting. When you also consider the climate in which Victini and Slowking have to operate in and their game-to-game weaknesses, slotting them in without reinforcing a team's weakness to particular threats is really hard.

In execution, what tends to happen a lot is that Steel-types are consistently tasked to be the Tapu Lele switch-in in the builder, and in doing so, several Steel-types can be stacked, and very frequently with notable special defense investment (i.e: Heatran, Ferrothorn, Melmetal, Scizor, sometimes Corviknight). On teams with only one bulky Steel-type, that said Steel-type is forced to have a solid (or at least noticeable) amount of special defense investment to reliably check Tapu Lele unless the team features Victini or Slowking. With that Steel-type, you'll see other dedicated checks to keep as much pressure off of Steel-types as possible in checking threats like Weavile or Scizor just to ensure a consistent matchup against Tapu Lele and Kyurem.

Without a doubt Tapu Lele impacts the way in which Steel-types operate in the builder, and to a degree this can impact how efficient a Steel-type is at checking other threats that they're often tasked to handle. Whether this is to a problematic extent, I cannot say at this time. However, I do believe it is worth observing because it shows that Tapu Lele exerts a very unique kind of pressure on Steel-types in the builder between the above observations and its greater opportunities to repeatedly chip away at them unlike Kyurem, so much so that common Steel-type backbones are pigeonholed into certain playstyles or cores to ensure a consistent matchup against Tapu Lele defensively, while not screwing themselves over against other threats.

---

To conclude this giant post, I want to again make clear that I'm not sure if I think Tapu Lele is truly an issue or not, but I would like to hear your thoughts on it! We're in a surprisingly great metagame at this time, but I think it's always good to think about the trends that lead us to build the way we do, and whether or not there's something we are being complacent about.

However, in general, I encourage you all to think about the way in which wallbreakers interact with one another in the metagame as we head into our next big team tour. Even if you don't believe Tapu Lele in particular to be much of an issue, I think it's important to consider that there are a lot of threats that balances are tasked to handle at a given time. I ask you to think about why you are building the way you are currently, for you to think about what leads you to perform the way you do against the landscape of offensive threats in the tier, and even how you may use those wallbreakers yourself.

Thank you all for reading this stupid big post; have a great rest of your weekend!

this is an amzing post, it does look like alot of effort went into this one, keep it up !

 

[Deleted User 464209]

Hey, ausma, no flame, but that is way too wordy. Abridged version is below. all I did was delete stuff

Tapu Lele

There are many different wallbreakers that the tier has at its disposal. unlike its competition, Tapu Lele's access to STAB Psyshock makes Blissey and Galarian Slowking a non issue, too, and given that its a STAB reinforced by its terrain, it's not really much of a sacrifice (if one at all) to click.

Tapu Lele is unique in the sense that it is the only special wallbreaker of note that does not necessarily need removal cores due to a distinct Stealth Rock neutrality, not only giving it more breaking opportunities, but also letting its breaking power be more readily reinforced by other offensive teammates as well as its own entry hazards like Spikes or Stealth Rock, which can make it increasingly difficult for its standard checks to repeatedly check it. This is to the point where, while coverage can be helpful in revenge killing Steel-types and forcing prediction mind games, coverage isn't as instrumental to its success.

Tapu Lele is not necessarily the only Pokemon that Steel-types are out to check, but it is a prominent one. However, there are only two special wallbreakers in the tier that Steel-types in particular are consistently tasked to check: Kyurem and, of course, Tapu Lele.

Tapu Lele's situation is unique because Steel-types are the only Pokemon besides Victini and Slowking that truly and consistently switch into its STABs. On teams with only one bulky Steel-type, that said Steel-type is forced to have a solid (or at least noticeable) amount of special defense investment to reliably check Tapu Lele unless the team features Victini or Slowking.

Tapu Lele exerts a very unique kind of pressure on Steel-types in the builder between the above observations and its greater opportunities to repeatedly chip away at them unlike Kyurem, so much so that common Steel-type backbones are pigeonholed into certain playstyles or cores to ensure a consistent matchup against Tapu Lele defensively, while not screwing themselves over against other threats.

I agree the general premise of Lele being a pain to stop without steels, specifically those not weak to focus blast, or without , however, I don't agree with discounting the effect of Tapu Lele's non-fairy and non-psychic moves. (Your points on hazards and forcing specific defensive types also apply to , so there must be other aspect that distinguish the gap between that and Tapu Lele! ...Regieleki is still underrated. use it more)

Without the Electric and Fighting coverage it gets, there would be a considerable list of OU-viable pokemon that would wall or switch in on tapu lele much more easily. Some games, it's disadvantageous to knock off tapu lele's choice item, because the STABs + coverage kills otherwise safe reads.

Without Thunderbolt/Thunder	Without Focus Blast	Without Shadow Ball (niche)

IMO, Tapu Lele's differentiation from other wallbreakers is

1. Speed Tier -- it's pretty much a fast conkledurr, nearly requiring offensive counterplay without the aforementioned stops. It is faster than all defense answers bar victini. Psyhic Terrain further restricts priority-based speed control
2. Choice Specs and Choice Scarf require completely different strategies to play around

All in all I do think Tapu Lele is broken. Answers for it do exist, but there is not a realistic way for balance teams to stop it consistently, while also not losing to , which are all commonly used together. A defensive Light Screen is really the only option.

As an aside, there are a number of special breakers that care less bout hazards; Tapu Lele is not unique in that regard.

 

[Mimikyu Stardust]

what do you do when you get called ugly in elementary school?
"Lash Out"

Hey gamers i wanna talk about an under appreciated move that is can work extremely well in hazard stack, and punishing Landorus

Now, First of all, this move is a decent side-grade to Knock Off that not many pokemon get, even then, some of the pokemon that do get it can't use it that well over their other options or dont exactly benefit that much from it Bisharp Tornadus-T Crawdaunt are some examples of it not being too beneficial over other options.


BUT! there are some pokemon that benefit heavily from it, as these mons tend to invite in Landorus and defoggers which can lower your stats, and make Lash out a hefty 150 BP move to nuke something for that turn!
Spike stacking teams would love Lash Out pokemons as they can punish defog and the ever anoyying landorus that want to put up their own hazard to keep the game even,
The first pokemon is...


Persona 5 ost 41 (Thundurus) (M) @ Choice Band/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Naive Nature
- Wild Charge
- Lash Out
- Superpower
- U-turn/Grass Knot/Bulk Up

Thundurus has a respectable 115 base attack stat which is no joke, and it invites in Landorus-T VERY EASILY as with the removal of Hidden Power Ice it cant hit it with meaningful damage.. until now! a +1 lash out after defiant can ohko (with choice band) a spdef landorus right off the bat which usually is one of its biggest counter to the special sets.
(+1 252 Atk Choice Band Thundurus Lash Out (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 366-431 (95.8 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO)
and does up to 91% to defensive landorus! now you can run boots and Bulk Up if you prefer a sweeper as it is still good! now thundurus doesnt really bait in much defoggers other than another landorus and even then, the only defogger that wants to stay in AND defog is the very rare defog koko as much of the defoggers in OU doesnt really want to stay in and defog vs thundurus other than those 2 (which thundurus can one shot koko after the defog with lash out)



Shrouded Figure (Krookodile) @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Lash Out
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Close Combat/Stone Edge

I'm going to keep this one brief as it is very similar to thundurus. krookodile punishes hard as it is a very common switch in to it. krookodile doesnt have the best speed for the tier with its choice band set, but it is slower than Torn-T which is a defogger that may get pivoted in by something else to threaten a focus blast or u-turn and defog hazards off, and if you are confident on them defogging, thats a free DEAD .


Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Lash Out
- Fire Punch/Superpower
- Earthquake/Ice Punch/Heavy Slam

Ev's on that is my personal favourite, outspeeds scizor, and tank lele. now this is the quintesential Lash Out Pokemon, as it benefits the most from it. it baits in Landorus like nobody's business, Can Punish defog attempts from cocky corviknight's and generally dont have a better option than lash out. CB Ttar is, was and will always be a menace... now strapped with a move that punishes intimidate attempts!
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Lash Out (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 298-352 (78 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Lash Out (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 307-363 (76.7 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Conclusion?
Lash Out is a very underappreciated move and on the right abuser can potentially be devastating for the opponent that tries to wall something for free and get punished for it. AKA Bait.


​

click toad for lash out thundurus replay *ribbit*

 

[Darkortex]

what do you do when you get called ugly in elementary school?
"Lash Out"

Hey gamers i wanna talk about an under appreciated move that is can work extremely well in hazard stack, and punishing Landorus
View attachment 368275

Now, First of all, this move is a decent side-grade to Knock Off that not many pokemon get, even then, some of the pokemon that do get it can't use it that well over their other options or dont exactly benefit that much from it Bisharp Tornadus-T Crawdaunt are some examples of it not being too beneficial over other options.


BUT! there are some pokemon that benefit heavily from it, as these mons tend to invite in Landorus and defoggers which can lower your stats, and make Lash out a hefty 150 BP move to nuke something for that turn!
Spike stacking teams would love Lash Out pokemons as they can punish defog and the ever anoyying landorus that want to put up their own hazard to keep the game even,
The first pokemon is...


Persona 5 ost 41 (Thundurus) (M) @ Choice Band/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Naive Nature
- Wild Charge
- Lash Out
- Superpower
- U-turn/Grass Knot/Bulk Up

Thundurus has a respectable 115 base attack stat which is no joke, and it invites in Landorus-T VERY EASILY as with the removal of Hidden Power Ice it cant hit it with meaningful damage.. until now! a +1 lash out after defiant can ohko (with choice band) a spdef landorus right off the bat which usually is one of its biggest counter to the special sets.
(+1 252 Atk Choice Band Thundurus Lash Out (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 366-431 (95.8 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO)
and does up to 91% to defensive landorus! now you can run boots and Bulk Up if you prefer a sweeper as it is still good! now thundurus doesnt really bait in much defoggers other than another landorus and even then, the only defogger that wants to stay in AND defog is the very rare defog koko as much of the defoggers in OU doesnt really want to stay in and defog vs thundurus other than those 2 (which thundurus can one shot koko after the defog with lash out)



Shrouded Figure (Krookodile) @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Lash Out
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Close Combat/Stone Edge

I'm going to keep this one brief as it is very similar to thundurus. krookodile punishes hard as it is a very common switch in to it. krookodile doesnt have the best speed for the tier with its choice band set, but it is slower than Torn-T which is a defogger that may get pivoted in by something else to threaten a focus blast or u-turn and defog hazards off, and if you are confident on them defogging, thats a free DEAD .


Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Lash Out
- Fire Punch/Superpower
- Earthquake/Ice Punch/Heavy Slam

Ev's on that is my personal favourite, outspeeds scizor, and tank lele. now this is the quintesential Lash Out Pokemon, as it benefits the most from it. it baits in Landorus like nobody's business, Can Punish defog attempts from cocky corviknight's and generally dont have a better option than lash out. CB Ttar is, was and will always be a menace... now strapped with a move that punishes intimidate attempts!
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Lash Out (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 298-352 (78 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Lash Out (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 307-363 (76.7 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Conclusion?
Lash Out is a very underappreciated move and on the right abuser can potentially be devastating for the opponent that tries to wall something for free and get punished for it. AKA Bait.


​

click toad for lash out thundurus replay *ribbit*

This is a very interesting post. I think the real deciding factor as to whether it is worthy of consideration on more common teams is whether it can be boosted on the switch. By this, I mean something like tyranitar or bisharp could switch into a corviknight, it defogs, and then lash out gets doubled power next turn. Otherwise, I couldn't see it being all that useful, as it relies on outslowing the opponent or luring in landorus-t just for a one-time life orb boost when it probably will not KO (barring like banded thundurus).

Edit: Based on the damage from thundurus to Zapdos, it does not get boosted on the switch. Because of that, the move is likely not worth it barring very specific situations like trying to lure lando-t

 

[airfare]

​

hi i wanted to share zapdos sets ive been using since most ppl are still hung up on defog when it is the worst in the tier at it (besides the obvious rain sets)

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Toxic
- Hurricane
- Roost

volt toxic gives it a way to reliably punish grounds switching in, puts heavy pressure on most offensive teams and turns it into a momentum machine. think this is the best variant of ur typical defensive utility zapdos - static and the electric typing give it a solid niche on bulky offense bc of its ability to handle most physical offensive threats with some luck + can keep pressure up on most defensive mons without wasting turns on (failing at) fogging. ftr heat wave is ass, letting in every ground in the tier in for free rocks is awful and u don't really have too many issues with ferro/other steels either with good pivoting. i find myself liking static zap more and more because it can check current meta threats like melmetal and urshifu somewhat better than the other existing birds

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 148 HP / 108 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Hurricane
- Discharge
- Roost

sub pressure zap is a menace on fatter teams - i find it's especially good on hazard stack teams to punish the double switching ppl usually resort to vs the pressure stall. sub, in addition to blocking status from typical switchins like lando/tankchomp/hippo, lets it give opportunities to other win conditions like clefable and suicune by pressure stalling while remaining an annoying wincon in its own right. it maintains its defensive presence with its typing while acting as a unique offensive presence with its STABs. can also use charge beam if ur a crackhead ig but the miss chance + pp + inconsistency in general turns me off especially when facing stuff like offense with weav pult

 

[SLDR]

​

hi i wanted to share zapdos sets ive been using since most ppl are still hung up on defog when it is the worst in the tier at it (besides the obvious rain sets)

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Toxic
- Hurricane
- Roost

volt toxic gives it a way to reliably punish grounds switching in, puts heavy pressure on most offensive teams and turns it into a momentum machine. think this is the best variant of ur typical defensive utility zapdos - static and the electric typing give it a solid niche on bulky offense bc of its ability to handle most physical offensive threats with some luck + can keep pressure up on most defensive mons without wasting turns on (failing at) fogging. ftr heat wave is ass, letting in every ground in the tier in for free rocks is awful and u don't really have too many issues with ferro/other steels either with good pivoting. i find myself liking static zap more and more because it can check current meta threats like melmetal and urshifu somewhat better than the other existing birds

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 148 HP / 108 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Hurricane
- Discharge
- Roost

sub pressure zap is a menace on fatter teams - i find it's especially good on hazard stack teams to punish the double switching ppl usually resort to vs the pressure stall. sub, in addition to blocking status from typical switchins like lando/tankchomp/hippo, lets it give opportunities to other win conditions like clefable and suicune by pressure stalling while remaining an annoying wincon in its own right. it maintains its defensive presence with its typing while acting as a unique offensive presence with its STABs. can also use charge beam if ur a crackhead ig but the miss chance + pp + inconsistency in general turns me off especially when facing stuff like weav pult

since we're talking about zapdos, here is something I came up with some time ago. I strongly agree with you saying that zapdos is a trash defogger and people should not use it for that purpose. i guess mine is a bit more offensive while still retaining some bulk. it focuses a bit more on "reliable" pivoting via uturn which of course can't be blocked, or status spread with toxic. keep in mind that in that post I put heat wave as a staple because the thread was about breaking fini+scizor core. this is how i would see it now. defense evs allows zap to take 2 consecutive knock offs from cb kartana from full. colours indicate personal preferences and alternative pair of moves.

in summary; if you don't cripple grounds, take momentum from them and run a more powerful electric stab. it's really just up to preference and team structure.

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 64 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
- Discharge / Thunderbolt
- Hurricane / Heat Wave
- Roost
- U-turn / Toxic​

 

[Keem]

​

hi i wanted to share zapdos sets ive been using since most ppl are still hung up on defog when it is the worst in the tier at it (besides the obvious rain sets)

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Toxic
- Hurricane
- Roost

volt toxic gives it a way to reliably punish grounds switching in, puts heavy pressure on most offensive teams and turns it into a momentum machine. think this is the best variant of ur typical defensive utility zapdos - static and the electric typing give it a solid niche on bulky offense bc of its ability to handle most physical offensive threats with some luck + can keep pressure up on most defensive mons without wasting turns on (failing at) fogging. ftr heat wave is ass, letting in every ground in the tier in for free rocks is awful and u don't really have too many issues with ferro/other steels either with good pivoting. i find myself liking static zap more and more because it can check current meta threats like melmetal and urshifu somewhat better than the other existing birds

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 148 HP / 108 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Hurricane
- Discharge
- Roost

sub pressure zap is a menace on fatter teams - i find it's especially good on hazard stack teams to punish the double switching ppl usually resort to vs the pressure stall. sub, in addition to blocking status from typical switchins like lando/tankchomp/hippo, lets it give opportunities to other win conditions like clefable and suicune by pressure stalling while remaining an annoying wincon in its own right. it maintains its defensive presence with its typing while acting as a unique offensive presence with its STABs. can also use charge beam if ur a crackhead ig but the miss chance + pp + inconsistency in general turns me off especially when facing stuff like offense with weav pult

I would like to add to the zapdos convo as well! So during wcop I saw this tech that kept me in awe and one that ive always wanted to try but couldn't bc the OU ladder is weird,I introduce to you Throat spray zapdos!

Zapdos @ Throat Spray
Ability: Static
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Metal Sound
- Hurricane
- Thunderbolt
- Roost/Subsitute
Basically just one of those set up sweepers sets that could be really threatening if you don't have a proper team structure and is for the shock factor I would also like to say that if hidden power was in this gen I'm pretty confident this set would be explored more,like maybe you could run HP ice over hurricane,allows you to hit spdef lando harder or you could keep hurricane for the STAB vs mons like quag etc.
Maybe we will get throat spray zapdos HO soon??? (Charge beam zapdos is prob a better option and requires less work I just wanted to share this bc I found it intresting)​

 

[clean]

Wanted to share a cool set I was trying out the other day.

Excadrill @ Adrenaline Orb
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Magnet Rise
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
​

Excadrill has fallen to the wayside in the meta. The prevalence of Lando-T and the archetype of sand becoming less and less viable are a few reasons why this may be case. That is why I decided to experiment a bit with Excadrill to see if there was a way to bring him back from the depths of the viability rankings. Naturally, Excadrill will bait in Lando. Many teams in the metagame have Lando as one of their only, if not their only resist to ground/ground immunity. That is what this set counters. When Lando switches into you, the adrenaline orb pops, letting you outspeed and set up a magnet rise. Lando will most likely have clicked EQ, now giving you a free swords dance. If you have a sand setter like Hippowdon or Tyranitar, ideally you run Sand Force, as you will already be +1 speed, and the 1.3x damage boost to your EQ and Iron Head hits very hard.

This set catches a LOT of people off guard. It still loses to stuff like Corv, for example, but any team relying on Lando to check Excadrill will be in for a real bad time with this set.

​

 

[MrMonochromatic]

Thank u very much for the Zapdos ideas. I have already heard bout Throat Spray. In theory it can be good against fat defensives mon, but yeah, would prob be always better to run Beam HDB. Even then, thats not its best set

But consider this: Metal Sound + Throat Spray is an effective +3 for a turn, so maybe one should abuse and Sub.

 

[Red Raven]

Hey guys, just wanted to share a set that I've been enjoying over the last couple days. I don't know if anyone is using this and I don't watch any tournament replays whatsoever so I'm just gonna go ahead and post it since I haven't seen anything that talks about it

Tornadus-Therian @ Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Taunt
- Icy Wind
- Heat Wave
​

It's not really that much of a change and there are probably better Tornadus spreads but here in the mid ladders, nobody ever uses adamant Weavile so might as well stick to the default. What this set does is ensures that you do not get swept by Garchomp and allows Tornadus to have a chance to actually beat Dragapult one on one. Even if Garchomp has yache berry, the icy wind will ensure that it will never be faster than you and even if its scale shots kill you, at least it won't be faster than whatever your fastest non scarfer is. Dragapult is a bit trickier since you are two shotted by shadow ball so a free switch is better. Also, you might need some chip on Pult before you can use Torn to check it. Taunt and heat wave allows it to mess with Ferrothorn and Corviknight. Defog is just for emergency hazard removal but you can replace it with u turn because you're walled by Heatran

 

[Red Raven]

Hey guys, wanted to share one that I've been experimenting with alongside the icy wind Tornadus. Ngl, the idea wasn't mine. The idea was actually from skyhigh981 who made a post here about Milotic. I didn't use that exact spread but I decided to give it a try since Milotic has some very unique advantages over Pex and Fini. I also didn't give it a try until now as for most of the last few months, I hated this generation

Milotic @ Flame Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Def / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
- Haze
- Recover
- Scald / Ice Beam
- Flip Turn / Toxic / Ice Beam

​

So, why Milotic of all things when you have Fini and Pex? Well, for one thing, snakes are kewl, until they start biting you that is. Also, the three strongest offensive mons in the tier, Dragapult, Garchomp and Weavile, all have a very difficult time breaking through Milotic. Dragapult would need some spdef drops for it to beat Milotic so it isn't all bad and Milo has to be careful about specs hex. Weavile has it the worst as unlike Toxapex, Milotic is not that vulnerable to future sight and its knock offs and axels bounce right off. Garchomp is the one with the easiest time as it has a strong earthquake that can potentially break thru Milotic but on the other hand, Milotic can fish for scald burns. If it gets them, even Garchomp is blanked. This is one of the qualities that make Milotic stand out as it can potentially handle all three at once. Fini and Pex can potentally blank Weavile and Dragapult but they are both raped by Garchomp in the long run especially if it's yache berry which shrugs off any random Fini ice beams

If the big three aren't enough, Milotic also straight up hard counters Heatran. Unlike Pex, Milo isn't afraid of getting trapped and unlike Fini, it has reliable recovery to consistently counter Heatran. Getting trapped isn't even the worst thing in the world as it has another great advantage, flip turn. This allows it to escape from any trapping attemps from Fini or Heatran, although you have to be careful about nature's madness, and it also allows you to get a better positioning on mons that like to switch in on Milotic

Aside from the big three and Heatran, Milotic also has a long list of pokemon it can totally blank, most of which carry coverage to deal with Pex. These include Melmetal, Scizor, Dragonite, Hydreigon and non giga drain Volcarona while its offensive answers in Kartana and Rillaboom could be ruined by scald burns or taken advantage by flip turn. It can also fuck over some random sub sd Landorus that is saved for the very end of a battle. The only offensive pokemon that it doesn't have a super effective move that Milotic can't check is Moistshifu. It could be a huge deal but well, you can't deal with everything. There's always one or two things you can't fight

Having said that, Milotic definitely isn't perfect. It has to consistently use recover to check with the things it's supposed to check which can be taken advantage of, has no passive recovery and even takes passive damage. Like with the other two bulky waters, it is brutally ripped apart by the likes of Lele and Kyurem while having the same issues against electrics and grasses. Also, I'm not sure how flame orb interacts with misty terrain so you might have to take that into account

So, just a tldr, some if Milotic's qualities include

- the big one, a switch move in flip turn
- toxic immunity thanks to flame orb
- a compression of Fini's Heatran countering abilities and Pex's knock off absorption, reliable recovery, and Weavile / Dragapult walling capabilities
- pure water typing and high natural speed means that the threats it deals with would need to be creative to get past it
- takes passive damage and has to use recover

Here are some calcs and replays of my experimentation of it thus far

Hide

252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 169-201 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 255-300 (67.8 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 84-100 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after burn damage
252 Atk Weavile Knock Off vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 57-67 (15.1 - 17.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 127-150 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 205-243 (54.5 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252 SpA Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 138-163 (36.7 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 183-216 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 132-156 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 122-146 (32.4 - 38.8%) -- approx. 3HKO after burn damage

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Thunder Punch vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 154-182 (40.9 - 48.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after burn damage

252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Thunder Punch vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 130-154 (34.5 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 208-246 (55.3 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 129-152 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage

Holy shit that's a whole lot of calcs. Now, calcs aren't everything but these are just the things Milotic can do and here are the replays of it doing what I mainly decided to experiment with it on, the switching

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1407881629-fj7azwtq5fprol0choktwuh5foof00tpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1407341888-bqyi5lsl9grtm3b3nqqr43t8ii0visopw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1407335607-c1nxoj7i9y6yyumf7nf90jvru6j11enpw

 

[Nebula27]

If we're discussing creative bulky waters I'd like to give my favorite fish some attention. Whiscash.


Whiscash @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Liquidation
- Whirlpool
- Protect

I started using this set after seeing the most recent usage stats, mostly after noticing just how common sp.def Lando is right now, explaining why ice beam swampert was failing me. Heatran's high usage was the other catalyst. Whiscash perfectly counters both. Oblivious is the key as ignoring intimidate allows you to stick to physical moves to hit heatran and taunt attempts by pokemon like grimsnarl or heatran. It certainly suffers from a lack of recovery, but it's synergy with clefable in a wish passing core is amazing, offsetting this weakness. Whirlpool is the other key as many players seem to think a magma storm will break whiscash hence allowing you to trap heatran or a troublesome grimsnarl. Protect is mostly useful in blocking attempts to u turn by lando, breaking their momentum and confidence. It also allows you to scout what move Rillaboom locks into after trying to switch in.

A weakness to toxic and future sights make it a little inconsistent for actual use but if you're looking for a fun pick on the ladder consider the ugly duckling of the ground water types.

 

[Endrism]

My last post was asking a question to y'all, and that gave us some great responses and input, so I'll ask another and give my own thoughts aswell.

With the new usage ratings out, what trends either up or down are you really liking?

Like last time, I'll start:

As someone who always liked using underrated tactics, seeing hail rise to the top of the weather wars puts a huge smile on my face. The absolute damage output of Arctozolt is amazing with a STAB BoltBeam along with Stomping Tantrum, Low Kick, Freeze Dry, and Substitute puts together a fantastic moveset that is almost unwallable and hard to outspeed without a decent scarfer on your team.

Amazing movepool, amazing offensive typing, 130 base special attack, 80-120-90 defensive spread. Although its not the fastest pokemon in the game, it doesn't have to be to absolutely demolish walls and burn any physical attacker that thinks about switching in. Awesome mon, love to see it gain recognition.

This may seem weird, but the incoming fall of Excadrill and Hydreigon to UU is something I believe is a great thing. These 2 have been suffering for a while being outclassed by others in the tier and seen as less and less viable. A trip to UU will give them a place where they can be top tier again. It hurts to say goodbye to Excadrill, but UU will fair much better for him.

 

[Zeno420]

This may seem weird, but the incoming fall of Excadrill and Hydreigon to UU is something I believe is a great thing. These 2 have been suffering for a while being outclassed by others in the tier and seen as less and less viable. A trip to UU will give them a place where they can be top tier again. It hurts to say goodbye to Excadrill, but UU will fair much better for him.

I will mainly focus on hydreigon in this post. Excadrill dropping is no surprise at all with and being a stable on many teams. But , is a totally different story. It’s access a wide arrange of coverage moves allows it to blow pass many of its common checks such as clefable, toxapex, and fini. Especially with blissey dropping in usage, this demon should be rising not dropping. Sure weavile’s rise in popularity has caused hydreigon some issues, but it has to come in first.

The only pivots that allows weavile to come in scotch free is tp clefable and blissey. Which aren’t that common with many clefables not running tp at all. Common pivots such as the slowtwins, corviknight, and lando are all crippled by a +2 dark pulse/draco. I’ll provide some calcs at the end. Hydreigon also has an excellent speed tier out-speeding many of common threats such as , , and .

Of course we cannot ignore the 2 main issues following hydreigon. The 4 move syndrome and tapu-fini. Getting chip on fini whether it is with hazards or just knock is ridiculously easy. You only need around 50% chip on fini for +2 flash to 2hko. I believe the best hydreigon set right now is plot, roost, 2 attacks. Given the right support dark pulse+draco/flash is enough to blow back many defensive cores.

Calcs

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 164+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 487-575 (127.4 - 150.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 481-567 (122 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 447-530 (113.4 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 308-363 (109.6 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 164+ SpD Toxapex: 320-376 (105.2 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 177-208 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[skyhigh981]

Hey guys, wanted to share one that I've been experimenting with alongside the icy wind Tornadus. Ngl, the idea wasn't mine. The idea was actually from skyhigh981 who made a post here about Milotic. I didn't use that exact spread but I decided to give it a try since Milotic has some very unique advantages over Pex and Fini. I also didn't give it a try until now as for most of the last few months, I hated this generation

Milotic @ Flame Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Def / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
- Haze
- Recover
- Scald / Ice Beam
- Flip Turn / Toxic / Ice Beam

​

So, why Milotic of all things when you have Fini and Pex? Well, for one thing, snakes are kewl, until they start biting you that is. Also, the three strongest offensive mons in the tier, Dragapult, Garchomp and Weavile, all have a very difficult time breaking through Milotic. Dragapult would need some spdef drops for it to beat Milotic so it isn't all bad and Milo has to be careful about specs hex. Weavile has it the worst as unlike Toxapex, Milotic is not that vulnerable to future sight and its knock offs and axels bounce right off. Garchomp is the one with the easiest time as it has a strong earthquake that can potentially break thru Milotic but on the other hand, Milotic can fish for scald burns. If it gets them, even Garchomp is blanked. This is one of the qualities that make Milotic stand out as it can potentially handle all three at once. Fini and Pex can potentally blank Weavile and Dragapult but they are both raped by Garchomp in the long run especially if it's yache berry which shrugs off any random Fini ice beams

If the big three aren't enough, Milotic also straight up hard counters Heatran. Unlike Pex, Milo isn't afraid of getting trapped and unlike Fini, it has reliable recovery to consistently counter Heatran. Getting trapped isn't even the worst thing in the world as it has another great advantage, flip turn. This allows it to escape from any trapping attemps from Fini or Heatran, although you have to be careful about nature's madness, and it also allows you to get a better positioning on mons that like to switch in on Milotic

Aside from the big three and Heatran, Milotic also has a long list of pokemon it can totally blank, most of which carry coverage to deal with Pex. These include Melmetal, Scizor, Dragonite, Hydreigon and non giga drain Volcarona while its offensive answers in Kartana and Rillaboom could be ruined by scald burns or taken advantage by flip turn. It can also fuck over some random sub sd Landorus that is saved for the very end of a battle. The only offensive pokemon that it doesn't have a super effective move that Milotic can't check is Moistshifu. It could be a huge deal but well, you can't deal with everything. There's always one or two things you can't fight

Having said that, Milotic definitely isn't perfect. It has to consistently use recover to check with the things it's supposed to check which can be taken advantage of, has no passive recovery and even takes passive damage. Like with the other two bulky waters, it is brutally ripped apart by the likes of Lele and Kyurem while having the same issues against electrics and grasses. Also, I'm not sure how flame orb interacts with misty terrain so you might have to take that into account

So, just a tldr, some if Milotic's qualities include

- the big one, a switch move in flip turn
- toxic immunity thanks to flame orb
- a compression of Fini's Heatran countering abilities and Pex's knock off absorption, reliable recovery, and Weavile / Dragapult walling capabilities
- pure water typing and high natural speed means that the threats it deals with would need to be creative to get past it
- takes passive damage and has to use recover

Here are some calcs and replays of my experimentation of it thus far

Hide

252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 169-201 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 255-300 (67.8 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 84-100 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after burn damage
252 Atk Weavile Knock Off vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 57-67 (15.1 - 17.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 127-150 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 205-243 (54.5 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252 SpA Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 138-163 (36.7 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 183-216 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 132-156 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 122-146 (32.4 - 38.8%) -- approx. 3HKO after burn damage

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Thunder Punch vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 154-182 (40.9 - 48.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after burn damage

252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Thunder Punch vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 130-154 (34.5 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 208-246 (55.3 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 180 HP / 76 SpD Milotic: 129-152 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage

Holy shit that's a whole lot of calcs. Now, calcs aren't everything but these are just the things Milotic can do and here are the replays of it doing what I mainly decided to experiment with it on, the switching

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1407881629-fj7azwtq5fprol0choktwuh5foof00tpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1407341888-bqyi5lsl9grtm3b3nqqr43t8ii0visopw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1407335607-c1nxoj7i9y6yyumf7nf90jvru6j11enpw

Interesting EV spread. I’ve always found the original 252 HP / 12 or 0 Sp Def investment to be wanting in this metagame, so I’ll try this spread too to see if it better helps Milotic to tank special hits.

My experience has been the same as yours - Milotic works in walling/countering what it needs to wall/counter in OU. Pairing Milotic with a dedicated wish passer such as specially defensive Clefable or Blissey will usually help to reduce Milotic’s reliance on recover.

 

[Morkal]

Silvally-Fairy

"Because Null and I have to make it on our own. And I don't ever want to forget that."
- Gladion​

BASE STATS:
HP: 95
Attack: 95
Defense: 95
Sp. Atk: 95
Sp. Def: 95
Speed: 95

Oh boy, BlackMalachite posting about more lower-tier Pokemon in OU, (seriously, are any of you actually shocked by my posts at all at this point? When it comes to Pokemon below OU having viability, I'm kind of a broken record when it comes to supporting niche Pokemon). Moving onto the topic at hand, Silvally has been talked about in OU before in short spurts, but lately, I've found that the Fairy Memory variant is extremely useful in OU. I have been having an unreasonable amount of fun and success with our Pseudo-Arceus steed in the tier as a result of its unique qualities.

You're probably wondering, "alright, I get that Silvally looks cool as a cucumber, but why not Clefable?" While Clefable is generally the preferred pick due to Magic Guard / Unaware, reliable recovery, and its ability to use different items, Silvally-Fairy has some absolutely excellent traits and offensive/defensive role compression to distinguish itself and provide for a specific but solid niche in OU, even over its main competitor Clefable. So first, let's start with Silvally-Fairy's great traits, and then I'll follow that up with an FAQ (based on players I've talked to on the forums and Showdown) once I've given information about Silvally-Fairy before we get into potential sets. We will also be talking about great teammates for each of the sets and why they're great.

Silvally-Fairy's Great Traits​

- Silvally has access to a plethora of support moves that Clefable could only dream of getting, such as Parting Shot, Defog, Roar, Flame Charge, Tailwind, Swords Dance, and U-Turn. In addition, Silvally is the only Pokemon in the game that has access to the uniquely wonderful combination of Parting Shot and Defog, two utility moves that synergize extremely well with one another.

- Silvally-Fairy is the best Knock-Off absorber in OU, no question, as Fairy Memory (its required item) cannot be knocked off, and it resists the move as a result of its Mono-Fairy typing. It's also pretty much the only Knock Off absorber in OU (unless you count Pokemon with the Sticky Hold ability, which is a waste of an ability slot), and Pokemon you can no longer use in OU or couldn't to begin with (such as Zamazenta-C or Giratina-O). This is especially important as Clefable absolutely hates to lose its Leftovers or Life Orb, while Silvally does not care about the move.

- Silvally has the same base 95 HP and Special Attack as Clefable; in addition, every other one of Silvally's stats is higher (also all being at base 95).

• This is notable in the speed department, as base 95 Speed with a Jolly nature reaches 317 or an Adamant nature 289. This means that Pokemon that outspeed Clefable such as Bisharp, Dragonite, Excadrill, Landorus-T, Mandibuzz, Skarmory, Tapu Fini, and Tyranitar are all outsped by Silvally-Fairy, and can be handled by one of its coverage moves or STAB attacks depending on the moveset you're using.
• This is also notable for offense; Silvally can run mixed sets while Clefable simply cannot, opening Silvally's movepool even more than Clefable's and making it less predictable. Silvally's access to Swords Dance and a fantastic physical Fairy STAB move also gives it more potential kick offensively.
• In addition, while the lack of reliable recovery outside of Rest is a bummer, Silvally's 95 / 95 / 95 defenses are more solid than Clefable's 95 / 70 / 90 Defenses and Silvally's speed helps make up for this lack of recovery, to begin with.

- Silvally-Fairy has access to much stronger Fairy STAB in Multi-Attack, a base 120 Physical move that changes type depending on the Memory that Silvally is holding. In addition to this, Silvally-Fairy has access to reliable Steel type coverage for opposing Fairies, along with access to Explosion (which can be particularly nasty if you're hit with Taunt and can't Parting Shot your way safely into one of your teammates).

- Silvally-Fairy is one of the only Physical Fairy types to gain access to Swords Dance and arguably has more utility than all the other Pokemon with access to this combination (I will get into this more in the FAQ). In addition to this, Silvally is the only non-Fire type Pokemon to have access to the potentially horrifying combination of Swords Dance and Flame Charge.

- Mono-Fairy typing is fantastic both offensively and defensively, and the higher Defense means Pokemon like Swords Dance Hawlucha won't have time to set up Swords Dance. STAB Acrobatics without a boost only 2HKOs an UNINVESTED Silvally-Fairy, while Jolly Silvally's Multi-Attack has a good chance to OHKO.

Silvally-Fairy FAQ​

Question #1: Did you forget that Mimikyu and Tapu Bulu both exist for Swords Dance Fairy sets?

Answer: Great question, Silvally-Fairy from my testing has several distinct advantages over both of those Pokemon. Mimikyu has one more point of base Speed than Silvally does but also has 5 base points less in its Attack stat. In addition to this, Mimikyu has a crippling Ghost weakness, Dark neutrality, and while Disguise is a great defensive ability, it's somewhat neutered by its horrible base 55 HP and lackluster base 80 Defense, along with the inability to go mixed like Silvally (along with not having Silvally's other support tools, including the lack of Flame Charge). Tapu Bulu is way better, though, right? I mean, look at those vastly superior stats! Well, good luck using Tapu Bulu's Fairy typing when it doesn't get access to even a single physical Fairy-type attack. Tapu Bulu has access to two Fairy-type offensive moves, Nature's Madness, and Dazzling Gleam.

Question #2: Well, Clefable can do things like setting up Stealth Rocks and be a team cleric; why would I even look at Silvally when Clefable suits my team's needs?

Answer: Another great point and Silvally-Fairy may not be your fit for those kinds of teams. However, Silvally-Fairy is not meant for that kind of niche and isn't going to try to compete with Clefable in that role. Silvally-Fairy's niche comes from its unpredictability, role compression, better stats (contributing to its ability to go mixed and outspeed key threats), and access to unique support tools that Clefable cannot get access to. In addition to this, Knock Off cannot gimp Silvally item-wise in the way that it can gimp Clefable.

Question #3: There are much better Defoggers, though, let alone Fairy Defoggers. Have you forgotten that Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko exist?

Answer: Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko are as Pokemon, no question, better than Silvally-Fairy. However, Silvally-Fairy has key advantages over bother of them. Let's talk about Tapu Koko first, as it competes with Silvally-Fairy in this slot more. Tapu Koko has better offenses, much higher speed, and better offensive typing, so clearly, it's better right? Well, not quite. Tapu Koko's defensive spread of 70 / 85 / 75 is definitely usable but doesn't quite hit the defensive benchmarks that Silvally's 95 / 95 / 95 does. In addition to this, Tapu Koko has an absolutely crippling Ground weakness that Silvally-Fairy does not have, meaning it has to be a lot more scared of Pokemon such as Scarf Landorus-T or Garchomp. In addition to this, Tapu Koko's Fairy attacks actually don't hit as hard as Silvally-Fairy because it has no Physical Fairy-type attacks to utilize its 115 Base Attack stat. Tapu Fini absolutely hates Knock Off, cannot run mixed and has the same Special Attack stat as Silvally as well. In addition, having weaknesses to Electric and Grass attacks is absolutely not ideal when you have monsters like Rillaboom running around, and can offset its defensive prowess.

Silvally-Fairy Sets​

There are two sets that I've been testing that I've had the most success with (I have tested some others, but they haven't been as reliable as the two sets I'm going to be talking about here). Each set fits different team dynamics, so choose wisely based on your team's specific needs.

Silvally-Fairy Set #1 - Swords Dance Cleaner

Silvally-Fairy @ Fairy Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Psychic Fangs / Crunch
- Flame Charge​

This set is a lot more straightforward than the Parting Shot / Defog Utility set (which we will talk about next). Set up Swords Dance, use Flame Charge to boost your speed, and slice a hole through your opponent's defenses. +2 STAB Multi-Attack will absolutely neuter most Pokemon, even physically decently bulky neutral targets or hard-to-scale monsters like Multiscale Dragonite.

+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert: 343-405 (84.9 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 313-370 (115.4 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 573-675 (80.2 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 277-327 (70.3 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 330-388 (102.1 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 60+ Def Mandibuzz: 522-614 (123.4 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 286-337 (74.6 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'd also like to point out that specific Fairy resists such as Ferrothorn and Scizor absolutely do not appreciate taking Flame Charge and are not safe switch-ins as a result, as they're going to end up being fodder for Silvally-Fairy to gain Speed Boosts from, while the currently popular variant of Scizor (the Specially Defensive set) cannot OHKO with Bullet Punch, even with no investment and a defense lowering nature (0 Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Silvally-Fairy: 188-224 (56.7 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).

+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 264-312 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 266-314 (73.6 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Flame Charge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Scizor: 352-416 (102.6 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 156-184 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While many people prefer to run Crunch on Swords Dance Silvally sets, I've actually found more consistent results with Psychic Fangs, as most of the things Multi-Attack will hit will still hit harder than Crunch (even against threats such as Slowbro). However, Crunch is still usable, so I've kept it slotted in as an option. Why Psychic Fangs? Well...

+2 252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Crunch hits Slowking-G super effectively, so you'll have to decide whether you feel that handling Slowking-G more reliably is more important than handling Toxapex more reliably (I generally prefer the latter, as my team usually doesn't have problems with Slowking-G).

Good Teammates:​

Tapu Lele: Psychic Terrain prevents priority and boosts the damage output of Psychic Fangs. This means that Bullet Punch, in particular, is irrelevant (and basically means most Scizor variants can't touch Silvally-Fairy).

Heatran: Fire / Steel typing absolutely compliments Silvally's mono-Fairy typing extremely well, and Heatran comes in on a lot of the Pokemon that threaten Silvally-Fairy really nicely.

Magnezone: Being able to trap opposing Steel-types like Melmetal and wear them down is an absolute boon to Silvally-Fairy; it can also maintain momentum with Volt Switch.

Swampert: Physically bulky Swampert can set rocks and come in easily against most Pokemon that want to deal with Silvally-Fairy. In addition, it can maintain momentum with Flip Turn.

Silvally-Fairy Set #2 - Mixed Utility Defogger

Silvally-Fairy @ Fairy Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Flamethrower
- Defog
- Parting Shot​

The premise of this set is simple, come in to clear hazards or scare something like Hydreigon, Hawlucha, or Dragapult out (be wary of Specs Shadow Ball), then shift match momentum in your favor using Parting Shot, which allows you to get certain teammates in far easier. Multi-Attack will cleave through a wide variety of OU's Pokemon with ease, even without an Adamant Nature (the extra power boost from Adamant doesn't hit notable damage benchmarks over Jolly / Hasty).

252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 402-474 (126.8 - 149.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 60+ Def Mandibuzz: 260-308 (61.4 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 290-344 (71.7 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 165-195 (51 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 688-816 (211.6 - 251%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 314-372 (92 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 450-530 (160.1 - 188.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 402-474 (135.3 - 159.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 270-318 (90.9 - 107%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Grassy / Electric Seed Boost)

In addition to this, Flamethrower is a nasty surprise for Pokemon like Ferrothorn who think that Silvally will be running Physical, as even with only 4 EVs, Flamethrower gets crucial 2HKOs on certain Pokemon, allowing it to pick off weakened threats in the mid-game or severely damage certain threats to a point where they are no longer reliable answers to Silvally-Fairy or other members of your team.

4 SpA Silvally-Fairy Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Ferrothorn: 176-208 (50 - 59%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Silvally-Fairy Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 168-198 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Silvally-Fairy Flamethrower vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 178-210 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Silvally-Fairy Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 166-196 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Silvally-Fairy Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor: 208-248 (60.6 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Silvally-Fairy Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 178-210 (49.3 - 58.1%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Silvally-Fairy Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Defog is there for clearing hazards, and Parting Shot allows you to easily regain momentum and weaken an opposing Pokemon's attack to cushion the blow of an attack on the switch-in (this is especially helpful for squishy Pokemon such as Weavile, Hawlucha, or Zeraora. Parting Shot as a whole is such an incredible tool on any Pokemon (see my Morpeko post in here several pages back), let alone a Pokemon like Silvally with usable bulk, speed, offenses, and a fantastic typing / movepool. The EVs are pretty standard and go well with Silvally-Fairy's movepool. We're choosing a Hasty nature because Silvally will more often get hit on the Special side if a Pokemon it feels comfortable switching in on will use against it.

Good Teammates:​

Rillaboom: Grassy Terrain helps with longevity issues caused by Silvally-Fairy's lack of recovery and can also pick off some problematic Pokemon with STAB Priority Grassy Glide or a hard-hitting Superpower.

Heatran: Fire / Steel typing absolutely compliments Silvally's mono-Fairy typing extremely well, and Heatran comes in on a lot of the Pokemon that threaten Silvally-Fairy really nicely. This is especially apparent for this Parting Shot variant as it means Heatran has a much easier time coming in.

Magnezone: Being able to trap opposing Steel-types like Melmetal and wearing them down is an absolute boon to Silvally-Fairy, and Magnezone has an easier time coming in thanks to Parting Shot and then maintain momentum even more with Volt Switch.

Swampert: Physically bulky Swampert can set rocks and come in easily against most Pokemon that want to deal with Silvally-Fairy, especially with help from Silvally's Parting Shot. In addition, it can maintain momentum with Flip Turn.

Weavile: A fantastic teammate that covers Silvally-Fairy's shortcomings well thanks to its monstrous Triple Axels, in addition to having a much easier time getting onto the field thanks to Silvally's Parting Shot.

Final Thoughts:​

Silvally-Fairy is not the easiest Pokemon to use, but it's gratifying and a potent component for maintaining momentum and disrupting your opponent's established archetypes. So give Silvally a whirl, and I can assure you that if you build your team right, it will put in some great work for you!

"You know why being a Trainer is so great? Because when you're battling, it doesn't matter if you're a kid or an adult. Everyone's equal in Pokémon battle!" - Gladion​

 

[okispokis]

Arctozolt. A niche mon that has unexpectedly taken OU by storm, Zolt has brought itself and Hail to everyone's attention by the fact that almost nothing can safely switch into it. Ground types and Zeraora can't safely come in on its Blizzards, and Low Kick can destroy Ferrothorn and niche Mamoswine. Swampert and Gastro work fine- if Zolt isn't carrying Freeze-Dry (possibly good odds if one is not named okispokis). But, what if I were to tell you that a perfect counter (or at least a consistently good one) does exist, found in the obscure depths of ZU? I present to you:

Seaking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Lighting Rod
252 HP/140 Att/16 SpA/100 SpD; Sassy Nature
-Flip Turn
-Knock Off
-Drill Run
-Scald

You may have many questions, leading with what substances I am currently on. However, Seaking is in a rather unique position to counteract Zolt, shrugging off Bolt Beak and Blizzard being a mere 7HKO with Hail chip, with Low Kick only doing a max of ~25%; even surprise FD only does max 30%. While Seaking's Drill Run isn't quite strong enough to 2HKO reliably, its other options can make up the gap. Losing Boots makes Zolt sweeping a lot harder, Scald can burn and at neutral is just strong enough to break Sub sans Veil (while also preventing Freeze hacks), while Flip Turn allows you to pivot out into an offensive Zolt answer. Between these utility options and Drill Run, however, I've found that Seaking's role is not limited solely to checking Zolt.

While I specifically designed this set to check Zolt, Seaking has proven a surprising amount of worth as a special tank, while being very annoying to OU's scariest special attackers. For example:

0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Assault Vest Seaking: 53-63 (14.5 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
140 Atk Seaking Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 240-284 (62.1 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

176 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Assault Vest Seaking: 81-96 (22.2 - 26.3%) -- 10.6% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Assault Vest Seaking: 111-131 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 44.8% chance to 3HKO
0- Atk Tapu Koko U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Seaking: 73-86 (20 - 23.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Assault Vest Seaking: 82-97 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 23.8% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Assault Vest Seaking: 103-123 (28.2 - 33.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
252 Def Magnezone Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Seaking: 114-135 (31.3 - 37%) -- 80.4% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Assault Vest Seaking: 259-307 (71.1 - 84.3%) -- not a KO

252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Assault Vest Seaking: 142-168 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
140 Atk Seaking Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blacephalon: 250-296 (101.2 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As you can see, almost every relevant special attacker struggles to break through Seaking at neutral, allowing it to either take an item or gain momentum with Flip Turn. In terms of those attackers, Specs Lele is the only one that OHKOs, and even then only with Psyshock. Seaking doesn't necessarily break any of these besides Heatran and Blacephalon without chip, it's not supposed to; AV Seaking works as a tank that can generate momentum on special attackers while also forcing progress with Scald and Knock Off to chip away at key threats. As such, here's some things to note for teambuilding.


Corviknight is a great partner for AVking; Corv's physical bulk covers AVking's weakness to physical attackers, provides Defog support and blanks king's one weakness, while Seaking blanks both of Corv's weaknesses. Since it fits on most team styles, I'd say Corv is probably King's best partner.

Wish and Grassy Terrain can both help with Seaking's lack of recovery; WishPort Clefable has proved to be a solid partner, also potentially providing Rocks to add onto Seaking's brand of chip. Grassy Terrain can alternatively be used to negate small bits of chip (particularly Hail chip), with Rilla and Bulu both appreciating burns and item loss on opponents, not to mention slow pivoting support. If you can't fit both, Wish is better for defensive teams, Grassy is for more offensive teams.

Frail offensive mons always appreciate slow pivot support, and further appreciate King's blend of utility. This is aided by another benefit of Seaking (which I might be spoiling): the psychological factor. Nobody expects anything from a mon like Seaking, and I've found opponents tend to just give King turns to set hazards or attack it with their special attacker- assumptions that can allow in a terrifying teammate, and with mons like Weavile or Blacephalon that can potentially be game-changing. This makes Seaking a good gluemon on offense teams, especially since they don't care as much about King's lack of recovery.

In terms of other options, Ice Beam can be used if you really want to 2HKO Garchomp, Icy Wind can provide further support for slower breakers, Megahorn can OHKO Weavile (doesn't take +2 Knock though) and Whirlpool allows you to remove Glowking; regardless, you should at least keep Flip and Knock. Overall, Seaking's combo of utility, pivoting, Electric immunity and solid special bulk with AV allow it to serve as a gluemon for any team fearing the likes of Arctozolt, Heatran and Blacephalon. This is a VERY small niche, but one that does exist for the bravest of souls.